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Clinton Comments on Rev. Wright

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Posted on Mar 25, 2008
Clinton

Hillary Clinton says she would have left her church, were she in Barack Obama’s position, because “We have a choice when it comes to our pastors.”

Needless to say, Team Obama was disappointed “to see Hillary Clinton’s campaign sink to this low.”

You can read Clinton’s original statement here, and watch her defend the comment here.

The Obama campaign’s response can be found here.

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By Jon, April 6, 2008 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Action speaks louder than words. Hillary doesn’t come from neighbourhoods that has high crime,drug problems,listens to music that promotes prison,gang violence,vulgar behavior,goes to churches where the pastor acts like he is insane. Wright should be looking into why black america has chosen to deteriorate it’s image rather than show themselves in a positive light. Jesus is not a promoter of the dark. Martin Luther King Jr fought for the rights of black america. Not for the criminal element of black america to steal the right of others to live free of crime and troubles in their lives. Wright should be utilizing the successful blacks to build your own educational institutions,jobs and live independant instead of looking to white america to progress and then spitting at them afterwards. Jesus would love to know that people clean up their own backyard.

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By Jack, April 4, 2008 at 7:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How many blogs did youpost about Imus, Katrina, Jena 6 or the Sean Bell murdur by police ?????
Does you concern for alleged racism as intense when minorities are victims ?

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By Barb, April 4, 2008 at 6:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jesus died for me and gave me the power to be a child of the Most High God and He gave me the power and authority over all the power of the devil.  Judge not unless you will be judged. The Bible says, “your words you say confirm your salvation.” Romans 10:9-10 and “life and death are in the power of the tongue.” I am smoking with Fire by the Holy Ghost’s Fire and no weapon formed against me shall be able to prosper and every tongue that rises up against me, I shall condemn and your words are condemned now in Jesus’ Name. The TV has shown several times that Rev. Wright met with Billy during the Monica Lewiinsky’s scandal. God bless you that you will know the One and only True and Living God, the Lord Jesus Christ and His Words yourself. Jesus declares, “If you continue in my words, you shall be my disciples and you shall know the Truth and the Truth (Jesus, the Word of God) shall make you free.”

Amen

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By cyrena, April 4, 2008 at 2:15 am Link to this comment

I have cross-posted this article on another thread. Just so you know. Unfortunately (and I do mean that) it seems to be ‘on topic’ for just about every thread going these days.

Then again, maybe it’s NOT so unfortunate, since we ALL need to deal with this, including the most secular and atheist among us. More than that though, the most RACIST among us need to come to grips with the fact that it is not the advantage of ANY of us, to maintain such ideologies.

==================

Harassment at Obama’s Church Is Detailed
By CATRIN EINHORN

After mostly avoiding the media and declining interview requests, officials at Trinity United Church of Christ, home church to Senator Barack Obama and Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, changed tactics Thursday, and described how the church has faced threats and other forms of harassment in recent weeks.

Standing at Trinity’s pulpit, flanked by church leaders of various denominations, Rev. John H. Thomas, the president of the United Church of Christ, looked into the cluster of cameras and called for a nationwide dialogue on race, including a preach-in on May 18 (called “Trinity Sunday,” he pointed out, on the ecumenical calendar).

“We will be asking our nearly 10,000 U.C.C. pastors across this nation to use their pulpits to begin to address the subject of race,” Mr. Thomas said, noting the symbolism of the day, which marks 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s final sermon.
“We believe that this is an important first step in beginning the broader conversation that needs to take place in our nation, in our communities and, especially, in our houses of worship.”

Church officials said they have received email and phone threats in the wake of the controversy over Mr. Wright’s comments, leading them to increase security. In one example, a caller said that Mr. Wright was going to see Jesus sooner than he thinks.
Rev. Otis Moss III, who is taking over from Jeremiah Wright as senior pastor, admonished members of the press for their behavior over the past few weeks. Reporters have harassed parishioners on their way in and out of church, he said. They have snuck inside and interrupted services. They even got hold of a list of sick parishioners and called people who were in hospice care, he added.

Mr. Moss declared that the church was reclaiming its “sacred space.”

“We respect your right to report the news,” Mr. Moss sternly told reporters. “Please respect our right to worship God.”

Then he turned playful.

“Now if you’re a member of the media and you’re looking for a church home, we welcome you to Trinity United Church of Christ,” he said. “There is no greater church this side of the Jordan.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/harassment-at-obamas-church-is-detailed/index.html?ex=1364961600&en=415d548b1b497939&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

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By cyrena, April 4, 2008 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

Thanks for this info CY.

And, I have in fact copied your address, so I’ll get in touch.

Thanks again…this is helpful.

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By Maani, April 3, 2008 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Barb:

Even were I not a Hillary supporter, I would ask: who died and made you God?  By what right do you decide who is saved and who is not?  Yes, Hillary lies.  But so does Obama.  And so do ALL politicians.

As well, where on earth did you get the idea that Rev. Wright “pastored” Bill Clinton?  What are you smoking?

Your blatant judgmentalism and condemnation show a spiritual arrogance that lacks any sense of humility, forgiveness, love, peace or any of the other precepts of Christ’s ministry.

You may want to reconsider your attitude and approach - to say nothing of your research.

Peace.

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By Barb, April 3, 2008 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

First of all, when a person is borned again of the Spirit of Living and True God, he/she cannot jump up and leave a church because of a pastor’s comments. All pastors say things that we do always agree; however, it is Jesus Himself who places in the Church as He wills; a true Christian is no longer in control of his/her life because Jesus becomes Lord and Savior. Clinton is not saved and what church does she belongs to. She has shown the world who her god is. She lies like satan who is the father of lies. Liar: Sleep deprived or not, the Bosnia theory is the work of satan. By the way, did she forget that Pastor Wright came to minister Billy when he fell with Monica Lewinsky. She is fighting against Obama because she and Billy egos will not let a Black man beat them. Billy had his chance, let go and let God.

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By jack, April 2, 2008 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Too bad you are not upset with John Hagee or Rod Parsley. Don’t worry Obama will not have you sitting on the back of the bus.

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By jack, April 2, 2008 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Exactly which statement of Wright’s is racist?  I cannot find one.  Look up the definition of racist.

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By jack, April 2, 2008 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Too bad you people wre not around during the Civil RIghts movement.  So outraged against racism. ML King
and the other Black ministers would have had a much easier job with all of you risking your lives along with him.

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By Conservative Yankee, April 1, 2008 at 7:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena,

give me an email address (mine is .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  )and I will be glad to answer your inquiry. (at least from the perspective of a Conservative Yankee connected (formerly) to Stan-Vac.

I can answer one question here which might be of interest to all

“So, what do you suppose accounts for those particular fluctuations?” (I’m assuming you mean between stations of the same brand)

ExxonMobil, Chevron, Shell, and the other large companies (once known as the “seven sisters”) wholesale much of their supply to middle-level retailers. When this agreement is consummated with a long-term contract, The retailers gets signs, advertising, and the “privilege” to accept the company’s credit card for all authorized sales. The wholesale price depends on location, method of delivery, and the number of gallons purchased a year.  the more gallons purchased by an entity, the lower the price, BUT we’re not talking in large differences. A entity pumping 220 million Gallons (As RH Foster New England’s primary distributer of Mobil product) might get a 3.7 per gallon rate, as opposed to a 5 station retailer who may pump fewer than 1 million gallons would get a 4.9 cent a gallon rate. these numbers are the profit margin rates, and do not change much relative to the price of oil at the well.
Big consumers (Like RH Foster) get favorable credit card handling rates (ExxonMobil no longer runs their credit operations, but farms that market out to Citi Group for a fee) 

The “On the Run” convenience stores often sell gas at cost to get customers then they sell them TBA, or ancillary to make their profit. The regular Garage station (fast disappearing) sometimes must charge up to 30 cents per gallon to pay costs associated with distribution.

Retailers may charge within a set price range for Gas and Diesel. but that pricerange varies from location to location. retailers (being good capitalists) Charge what they can get.

Then there is Federal State and Local tax which in some locations make up almost a quarter of the price of a gallon of fuel. On one side of the Hudson (New Jersey) Gas is selling for $3049 this morning, while in Manhattan it is unavailable for less than $3829. New York has a high city tax, and Elizabeth has none. Also New Jersey has allowed refineries, and New York has not allowed a new refinery since John D. Rockefeller sat in his office at 26 Broadway. That is almost 70 years ago.

People love gas, but they don’t like the process used to create it.

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By cyrena, March 31, 2008 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

CY,

This makes sense to me, about the value of the dollar and the avalanche effect, at least to the extent that I can follow it.  (math isn’t one of my wizardries)

BUT, doesn’t that leave out the supply and demand part of the equation, at least to the thing about ‘prices at the well’?

For instances, I understand what you mean about prices at the well-head not being that ‘negotiable’ (I use that for lack of a better term) because for the most part, they belong to ‘others’.

But, you also suggest that the value of the US currency can be adjusted, because it is “the currency used to trade most oil.”

But, it seems to me like that might be the catch. At least from the way I’ve understood some of the little known facts such as Saddam Hussein was about to begin doing business in the EURO, (at least for the nationalized oil of Iraq, allegedly the worlds 3rd largest supply of the stuff, some of those fields not even yet proven). AND, that he was about to begin selling as much as he could pump, (never mind the OPEC stuff) and was gonna sell it to whomever had enough EURO’s to buy it!! (and as much as they wanted of it!) And, I presume he would have accepted the Yen, and whatever China’s currency is as well. Matter of fact, he didn’t seem to care, but it was the Euro he was most interested in doing business in.

Now, all things considered, wouldn’t this have made some really big changes in the global economy, and maybe even made the dollar worth, well…ZIP?

Now I don’t pretend to know or understand this entirely. I do have a colleague that is working this up for a thesis, and he claims he’s even got Congressional discussion on the record that was really concerned about this happening, because (according to him) it would have given us an instant economic crash nearly 6 years ago, that would make the upcoming depression look like just one bad night at the poker tables.

So, that’s why I’m curious. I’m equally curious about the fact that the gas at the pump prices can vary as much as .65-70 a gallon from one demographic location to the next, separated by as little as 30 miles, and as much as 900 miles. (For instance the gas L.A. runs anywhere from 20 to 47 cents less than the gas 100 miles to the north or east.) The gas in Dallas, Tx has consistently been 30 to 50 cheaper than it has in any place in California. And that’s been since The Coup nearly 8 years ago, and we know that overall, the price has tripled since then.

So, what do you suppose accounts for those particular fluctuations? I’m just curious.

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By PatrickHenry, March 31, 2008 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

First, I am a strong supporter for campaign finance reform.

In the capitalist tradition, the ability to raise campaign funding is sacrosanct, demonstrating the ability to persuade and thereby lead.  The candidates handling of the campaign finances from providing insurance to paying debts is a microcosm of how the will run government.

Here, clearly Hillary has missed the boat.

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By PatrickHenry, March 31, 2008 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

I apoligize for the Hillary shot, Obama girl was on the same site, which I was inferring, sometime cutting and pasting these websites gets tricky.

My bad.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 31, 2008 at 6:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

While not responding to Hinnis, I thought I’d use this empth space to impart some information to any who would care to partake:

While there is very little ANY President can do about the price of Oil at the well-head (It mostly belongs to others) The US can increase the value of the dollar, the currency used to trade most oil.

It is a little known fact that almost all the increase in prices at the local filling station are due to the value of the dollar and the “avalanche effect” The “avalanche effect” occurs when a product is used in the production, transportation or distribution of the same product. Oil increases in price, therefore Diesel (used to transport gas) increases in price, causing the transported gas to further increase in price to the local filling station, where the electricity and fuel oil used to warm the employees, and run the pumps increases in price…AND all these increases have not hit yet, including the speculative vision of oil prices at $105.70 a barrel. At this level, the price at the pump wil be about $4.759 to $5.239 by late August

$105.70/42xA+B+C+D+Y=X X being the number between $4.759 and $5.239
Oil is far to complicated for our current political hacks.

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By cyrena, March 30, 2008 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

Outraged DEFINITELY speaks for ME!!

So, what part of WE DON’T CARE do you not understand…HINNIS?

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By cyrena, March 30, 2008 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment

S/He just can’t ‘get it’ outraged, that…NOBODY CARES.

(apparently including his/her gramma).

It’s like once folks figure out, (and sometimes it takes longer than others) there’s no way to FIX it.

We simply dispose of what is garbage, and/or otherwise ignore it, once it’s been identified as such.

Hinnis doesn’t get it though.

Ya gotta admit, he/she isn’t the only one.

Speaking of which..if I had money to bet, I’d ‘bet’ that hinnis is a he. Women are generally far smarter, and know when they’re beating a dead horse.

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By Outraged, March 30, 2008 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Quote from Matt Taibbi:  ““ We can’t keep our eyes on the ball and really think about the serious endemic problems of our system of government because we’re too busy freaking out like a bunch of cartoon characters over silly, meaningless bullshit. And then forgetting about that same bullshit ten minutes later, so that we can freak out all over again about something else later on.”

Full Article:  http://www.alternet.org/election08/80577/

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By Louise, March 30, 2008 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for the chuckle cyrena. wink

Nice to know a few who think to care, or care to think are still prowling this thread.

Guess I must have been right about the porta-potty eh? Notice no-one commented on that! I figured that would really make them mad.

so little time, so much trashing to do. And so many small minds to feed the trash into the mill.

My goodness, is this really support for the other candidate? I don’t think so. I think they’re just warming up for the attack on her, should she win the nomination.

Poor Hillary. Who’da-thunk?

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By Outraged, March 30, 2008 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

I see I was too late with the warning and she disowned you already.  Hey…just trying to give you a heads up…

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

OBAMA LIES IN PENNSYLVANIA AD
From NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan
GREENBURG, Pa.—The Clinton campaign today accused the Obama campaign of “false advertising,” claiming that a recent ad Obama released in Pennsylvania was disngenous because Obama has been the recipient of more than $200,000 from the oil and gas industry.
In the ad, Obama says, “I’m Barack Obama, and I don’t take money from oil companies or lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change any more.”
Obama has taken $213,884 from the oil and gas industry as of Feb. 29th, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Sen. Hillary Clinton has taken $306,813 in that same period.
Two of Obama’s campaign bundlers are also CEOs for oil and gas companies, per a list released on his campaign Web site.
Robert Cavnar, listed as a bundler who has raised between $50,000 to $100,000 for the campaign, is the chairman and CEO of Mission Resources Corp., a Houston-based firm. George Kaiser, also listed in the same $50,000 to $100,000 category, is the CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Company.
“It’s unfortunate that Senator Obama is using false advertising to explain why he can be trusted to do something about energy prices,” Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said.  “Senator Obama says he doesn’t take campaign contributions from oil companies but the reality is that Exxon, Shell, and others are among his donors.”
http://tinyurl.com/2on6dr

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

I think you may want to settle down a little and reply when you are in a more rational state.  By the way, what’s a gramma?

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By Outraged, March 30, 2008 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

Like I said hinnis…., NO ONE cares what YOU, the almighty proclamator of what is racist and what is not, cares what YOU think…..try your gramma, really it’s your best option.  I mean…hey…she MAY still like you….

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 9:12 pm Link to this comment

Outraged:  My, do you kiss your mother with that mouth.  Am I to take your response as an affirmation that you do prefer racism?

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By Outraged, March 30, 2008 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

Listen hinnis, no one gives a rat’s ass if you think Obama’s preacher is racist.  NO ONE!  And no matter how many times you spew and spew and spew and spew and spew this crap, we STILL don’t give a shit!.  Do you need to get hit in the head with a baseball bat or WHAT…!!?  Give it up already, try your Gramma or something…BUT WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOUR THINK OF OBAMA’S PREACHER!

Yes I speak for everyone except of course, your alter-egos bert, sixpack and jimmywhateverthefuck.

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 8:28 pm Link to this comment

Yes, Obama gives lofty speeches about hope and unity. And, Obama can read a teleprompter better than anyone since Ronald Reagan, but his 20 year close relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser,” speaks volumes about his character and judgment. Would you Obama supporters attend a racist church for 20 years and consider its racist minister your “mentor and spiritual adviser?” I know I wouldn’t. If I stepped into a church, the first time the pastor made a derogatory statement about “black people” I would be out of there, never to return. But then again, I’m not a racist.

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By cyrena, March 30, 2008 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

I’ll be a confirmation ‘witness’ here for you Maani.

I’m willing to testify, (under oath if need be) that you CERTAINLY DID ‘bring up’ or otherwise attempt to introduce this bullshit into the ‘discussion’. Actually, I needn’t even do the ‘oath’ thing, because your earlier attempts would be located in the comment archieves.

Still, I just wanted to acknowledge that you aren’t lying (THIS TIME) about the fact that you had already ‘brought this up’ and the fact that it didn’t make a ‘dent’ in the discussion. (just like it won’t make a ‘dent’ coming from hinnis either).

And, I’ve explained the reasons over and over again.

Many (if not MOST) of the readers here have excellent ‘intellectual filters’. In other words, we see the shit for exactly what it is…negative propaganda. I gave it a name (borrowed from another columnist) long ago. These missives are IED’s, as in Insinuations/Exaggerations/Distortions.

So, while the tactic of the brainwasher is to just keep repeating this stuff (IED’s) over and over, it has little effect on anyone who already recognizes them as exactly that.

Seems like you all would have figured that out by now.

Remind me when there’s more time, to tell you the “Shake It Off, and Take a Step Up” story about the donkey being buried in the well.

It’s really a good one for understanding how these IED tactics can backfire.

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By cyrena, March 30, 2008 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry…I’m too FLATTERED!!

Really, I am. But, I have to admit, she’s not me.

Maybe 30 years ago? Yeah, that might be fair enough. But nope, I can’t claim the ‘persona’ now.

I did thoroughly enjoy the video however, (even the part with Bill C playing the sax).

So, thanks for sharing. (Maybe I could claim Obama’s girl as a daughter? - just a thought) wink

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By cyrena, March 30, 2008 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment

Louise,

As you can see from the trash posted in reply to your questions, there are no answers.

It’s highly unlikely that any of these ‘persons’? do anything close to attending church, or showering, or even bothering with the standard receptacles for all of their ‘waste’, like toilets and the other methods of removing and disposing of such. (showers, soap, water, etc)

One can imagine that they simply exist in a literal litter box, with the keyboard in the middle.

Now of course even animals refuse to eat or sleep in their own waste. Cat’s don’t relax, sleep, or bathe themselves from the ‘comfort’ of the litter boxes. And my dogs are quite diligent about removing themselves from their immediate environments to do their urination and defecation, an then they are very careful to conscientiously ‘bury’ or otherwise COVER IT UP. (at least that seems to be what they think they’re doing).

So, I said all of that to say, that most living beings, (humans included) DO NOT eat, sleep, work, play, in the same place where they shit!

But, these folks (and we know who they are without mention) apparently do…EXACTLY that!

And, I could add that they all have the same afflictions: diarrhea of the mouth, (or keyboard) and constipation of the brain! Sort of like the ‘irritable bowel syndrome” of the psyche.

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By jimmyjam, March 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

Now I remember Crack-pot

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By jimmyjam, March 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

What is that C word that I think of when-ever you post, ends with a t.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 30, 2008 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By hinnis, March 30 at 1:50 pm #

“How lame, calling me a Hillary “Troll.” Usually, Obama fans use the race card when they have no argument, but I guess I should add another tactic in the “lame response” category, and that is yours:  attacking the commenter personally with name-calling, etc.  If you disagree about the issues, why don’t you make a cogent argument.  Otherwise, you just look silly.”

“Silly”... I’m flattered… At least I read posts before I answer… I doubt anyone on this blog who has been reading me for the last 18 months believes I am one of the “Obama fans”  He’s Token, and She’s Hill-the-business-shill.  Ain’t no dawg of mine in this hunt!

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

How lame, calling me a Hillary “Troll.”  Usually, Obama fans use the race card when they have no argument, but I guess I should add another tactic in the “lame response” category, and that is yours:  attacking the commenter personally with name-calling, etc.  If you disagree about the issues, why don’t you make a cogent argument.  Otherwise, you just look silly.

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Duck and cover everybody; a race card has been thrown. Yes, Louise, even racists go to church; look at Rev. Wright.  I imagine he is in church as we speak.

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By Louise, March 30, 2008 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

Well lets see ... it’s Sunday.

You religious, [possibly racist] bigots have been repeating yourselves on this thread for almost six days now.

Of course one would expect religious, even racist bigots determined to save us all, [whether we want to be saved, or not] would be heading for Church on Sunday. But apparently not.

That doesn’t surprise me though. Hypocrites, racists and bigots, particularly the religious type rarely do as they say.

But I am curious about a couple of things.

Do you stop long enough to shower?
Do you ever go potty?

Or do you just have one of those porta-potty’s parked permanently in front of your keyboard?

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By Conservative Yankee, March 30, 2008 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Maani has one point Cyrena, you have gotta calm down just a tad… Hinnis is obviously one of the many Hill-the-business-shill trolls that have been put here and elsewhere to attempt to “limit the astronomical Clinton Negatives.

CNN puts these negatives at 48% that makes her less palatable than Nixon at the exit. Carter’s Negatives were at 32% in 1980 and he lost all but seven States… even liberal bastions like New York, Massachusetts and Vermont went for Reagan. 

The business shill may get the Democratic nod, but she ain’t never gonna be the Prez!  Too many folks out here in the real world see her for what she is under the costume… A bought and paid-for corporate whore with an ego the size of Alaska and a non-existent concern for working people.

AND my question still stands without an answer… How did the Clintons parley the 3,200,000 they earned from the White House and the 1.2 Million they earned in the Senate into enough to pay off their enormous legal fees (he almost had to claim bankruptcy in 2000)into a multi-million dollar estate.  The House in Chapaqua cost 6 Mill and they have (according to IRS) no mortgage, she loaned her campaign 5 mill, and they have to live on something??? Where’s the money coming from?  Bet I know!!!

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By hinnis, March 30, 2008 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

OBAMA BUYING THE DELEGATES:
These are the latest figures from an article in the Seattle Times:
Since 2005, Obama’s PAC has donated $710,900 to superdelegates, more than three times as much as Clinton’s PAC. Her PAC distributed $236,100 to superdelegates during the same time.
The study found that the presidential candidate who gave more money to the superdelegates received their endorsements 82 percent of the time. That’s based on a review of elected officials who are serving as superdelegates and who had endorsed a candidate as of Feb. 25.

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By jimmyjam, March 29, 2008 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

or join in mmmm

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By cyrena, March 29, 2008 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

•  Maani/Hinnis/Cyrena You have convinced me… Neither of these people deserves the position for which “We the People” advertised. 

You may have a point here CY. But, keep in mind that I have my own criticisms of Barack Obama. Specifically, in reference to ending the US Occupation of Iraq.

So, I’d like to see him come up with a more definite set of plans. I’m always realistic and pragmatic enough to know that there is a major limit on what he can actually accomplish (or even promise) until he is actually in office…SPECIFICALLY in terms of Iraq and foreign policy, the Pentagon, etc. And yes, that is simply pragmatic wisdom over idealism. What I would like, (or what we ALL would like) relative to what can actually be accomplished, and how and when. For that, I come as close to whatever ‘faith’ might be. A measure of trust I suppose.

As for the money, I’ve long since gotten over that as well. Yep, it’s another one of those, ‘it would have been nice’ if we could leave money out of it all together, eh? Even your idea of a national election day sounds great. Forget all of this primary stuff, and everybody just vote on the same day, to narrow the pool down to the final contestants. It ain’t gonna happen.

I actually prefer what I think I understand the system to be in Australia. They vote for their top ‘X’ number of choices, and the offices are assigned in order of who gets the relative number of votes. The most votes – Prime Minister/President, and then the next, and on down the line. That should work well enough for at least the Pres/VP/Sec of State. The others should really be appointed based on their field of expertise.

But, that ain’t gonna happen either.

So, I’m just back to what I’ve said from the beginning, and it’s the same as expressed by many others as well. Barack Obama is the first politician to come along in over 40 years, that has been able to bring more Americans, (rather than just that sliver of the monied elite) back into the process, and allow for the possibility that MORE of us will have a hand in our own survival.

Cynics are of course going to express their own disbelief in any possible chance of that, but there’s little to be done about individual cynics. That’s life. Some…like you, have a legitimate basis for your cynicism, and I understand it. That is not the (by even a stretch of the imagination) the same as those few who are devoted to smear and negative IED’s for the sole purpose of destroying a particular candidate. And that is certainly hinnis, who has yet to even show support for ANY.

Meantime, based on what we have to choose from, I see a drastic improvement in the Obama candidacy, to what we’ve been subjected to over the past decade or better. We had a chance with Al Gore, and we blew that.

So, I’m putting a measure of trust in what I’ve seen Obama accomplish so far. Nope, it won’t be perfect. There is rottenness at the core of the US foundation that has yet to be addressed in terms of repair. (Hasn’t even been acknowledged, so obviously…no repair in the works).

Anyway, Obama isn’t promising the moon, or the stars, or a Lexus in every garage. But, he HAS at least frankly acknowledged what we NEED, and how we might ALL go about accomplishing that.

And, at the risk of repeating myself, Barack Obama wouldn’t even be running for the office if 1) there were other candidates that could or would do this, and 2) if the changes in ‘business as usual’ weren’t so urgently necessary…to save ALL of our asses.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 2:21 pm Link to this comment

The story has also hit other media outlets, however, it has been watered down a bit.  For example, one article I read failed to mention the $10 million line of credit taken out on the home.  I still would like to know how they got a $10 million line of credit on a property worth approximately $2,000,000, and what all that “credit” will be used for.  I wonder if it’s a big fat piggy bank for Rev. Wright, paid for by his much less fortunate congregants.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

Maani:  You bring up a good point.  It doesn’t take too long to discover just how deceptive and ruthless Obama is; just a few hours looking through articles on his career and background.  The fact that so many Obama supporters do not care enough to do this, and moreover, will not countenance any criticism of him, does not bode well for this country. People like Obama are even more disgusting to me than the usual crooked politician, because of the HUGE disparity between who he claims to be, and who he actually is.  But, after all, that has been the basis for his whole candidacy, the illusion that he represents “change” and “unity.”  This reminds me a lot of Bush; there are Bush supporters who will follow his lead no matter how much evidence is presented regarding his poor choices and bad leadership.  I used to think that the Democratic party was better than that; I’m sorry to say, I was wrong.

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By Maani, March 29, 2008 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

hinnis:

I brought this up some time ago, but, alas, it made nary a dent in the overall discussion since, as those of us not supporting Lord King God Bufu Barack have seen, NOTHING gets through to his supporters.

It is, however, a good indication of just how phony his entire persona of “integrity,” “principle” and “character” is.

Peace.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry:  I consider “my own kind” to be people of good will from any race, color or creed.  I guess that’s why you and I disagree.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

Good luck to the two of you.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

OBAMA WAS A DIRTY POLITICIAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING:  From the Chicago Sun-Times—A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.  One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama’s petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.  “Why say you’re for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?” Askia said. “He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?”  In a recent interview, Obama granted that “there’s a legitimate argument to be made that you shouldn’t create barriers to people getting on the ballot.”  But the unsparing legal tactics were justified, he said, by obvious flaws in his opponents’ signature sheets. “To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up,” Obama recalled.  Asked whether the district’s primary voters were well-served by having only one candidate, Obama smiled and said: “I think they ended up with a very good state senator.”  Alice Palmer, a friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews.  But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat.  Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer’s hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw.  “I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant,” Obama said. “It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently.”  Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer’s elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama’s electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed.  “He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?” said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his “guru of petitions.”  In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama’s Democratic rivals at the candidate’s behest.  All other candidates were disposed of by Obama’s challenges.  He then went on to win the election.
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

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By Conservative Yankee, March 29, 2008 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ultimately, you are wrong about me, and probably (at least mostly) about hinnis.  You have a habit of engaging in ad hominem attacks on people rather than actually rebutting them.  This is neither good debate technique, nor is it helpful TO ANYONE - even those who may side with you.

“I have said this before: you REALLY need to calm down, govern your passions, stop with the name-calling, accusations and ad hominem attacks, and engage in debate by either (i) presenting facts and theories, or (ii) rebutting others’ facts and theories with facts and theories of your own - but WITHOUT the unnecessary and unhelpful negativity you bring to these boards.”

“Peace.”

Oh Maani, you are always good for a belly laugh!

You claim to be a preacher, so Use that passage about motes in the eyes of others and beams in your own!

Preacher of what?? the Church of Monty Python?

pieces

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By ElkoJohn, March 29, 2008 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

but WHAT IF. . .
her Rev. had gotten oral sex
from a 21-year old parishioner
would she have stood by her Rev.?

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By PatrickHenry, March 29, 2008 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

Gee, I’m not voting for Rev. Wright.

I’ve read the many posts you’ve written and while very passionate in your propaganda I chosen Obama girl’s viewpoint over yours. 

She makes more sense.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 29, 2008 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Business-shill Campaign claiming that the Token campaign is “dirty” is equivalent to the Bush White House saying the Clinton White house was irresponsible.

All true enough, maybe,  but all messengers tainted beyond credibility.

Ms Business shill wants “re-do” of Florida and Michigan. I want re-do of entire process.  Dump these whores and resubmit applications of other candidates.

Oh, and BTW the primary process STINKS!!! 

Mel Martinez and and Howard Dean (or whoever is the DNC Chair after Denver) should meet and discuss a “National Primary Day” everyone votes and it’s over. The idea of each candidate raising half a billion dollars to run for the “PARTY NOMINATION” is ludicrous.

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By hinnis, March 29, 2008 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

WHAT REV. WRIGHT REALLY BELIEVES
News Type: Opinion — Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:26 PM EDT
us-news, election, obama, clinton, race, wright
dugan49
When Jeremiah Wright got into a spitting contest with right wing TV host Sean Hannity last year, he at one point refused to answer Hannity’s badgering questions and kept asking Hannity “Have you read James Cone, what do you know about black theology? Have you read Cone? Have you read Cone?Have you read Cone?”
James Cone is one of he founders, some say the founder, of Black Liberation Theology. Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s ministry, his beliefs about America, and about life itself are formed by his attraction to and acceptance of the writings of James Cone.
Let’s look at some quotes from James Cone.
____________________
“The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people.”
“All white men are responsible for white oppression. ”
“Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man ‘the devil.’”
“Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement.”
“Black suffering is getting worse, not better. . . . White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it.” (2004)
” Jesus Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.”
“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.”
“The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”
“What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. ”

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By PatrickHenry, March 29, 2008 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

First, any parish who could afford to give the good reverend the money to build a nice house isn’t your run of the mill.

Racism, ethnic favoritism and tribalism are part of the human condition, we generally prefer to be among our own kind.

If you have ever been in battle or a member of an elite organization you would know how experiences can fuse people together into a stronger bond over race, religion or ethnicity.

The DLC or RNC doesn’t qualify even though there are daily battles amongst so called elites, they now have the same goals as the RNC, tax and spend, budget shortfalls, more government ensures a continuing voting bloc.

I still favor Ron Paul for president and the media would have you believe he is out of it. If his name, Gravels or Kucinich’s name is on the general ballot any of them has my vote.

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By Maani, March 29, 2008 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

Cyrena:

To paraphrase Shakespeare, methinks thou dost protest too much.

First, I cannot speak for hinnis, but I have never bought the Obama-as-Muslim argument, and have said so.  Indeed, despite my CRITICISM of Obama, there are MANY things that have arisen about him that I have not and do not “buy” any more than you and other here do.

Second, your concept of “brainwashing” is so absurd in the current context as to be laughable.  One could no more “brainwash” someone (in the true sense of the word) solely via the equivalent of words on a printed page than one could boil water by breathing hard on the pot.  Your hyperbolic screed in this regard only betrays your own ignorance.

Third, there is a huge difference between “criticism” and bringing FACTS to light on the one hand, and “undermining,” “libeling” and “swift-boating” on the other.  For example, the lies that bert listed on another thread are provable and supportable by clear and convincing evidence. If it is not “clear and convincing to you,” it is because you remain fact-challenged or fact-denying. But LISTING those lies is not “libel” or “swiftboating,” but bringing truth to light.  And in my experience, speaking the truth is NEVER libelous or swiftboating.

Fourth, re OJ, it might shock you to know that I am one of those who do NOT believe he was guilty. Yup. This white 50-something man followed the entire story from day 1 (i.e., from the day it happened; not JUST the trial) and does not believe he is guilty.  And I base this on the FACTS of the case. Indeed, I could take all of those facts - EXACTLY as we know them - and create an equally plausible scenario in which OJ did NOT kill Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown (though I believe he knows who did). In fact, during a dinner I attended with Kato Kaelin some years later, I became more convinced than ever that OJ was innocent; NOT by anything Mr. Kaelin SAID, but rather by what he did NOT say, and HOW he said what he DID say (i.e., tone of voice, body language, etc.).

Fifth, you say “most people” do not believe the official story of 9/11.  If that were only so!  “Most,” by definition, means “more than 50%.” Yet the number is not nearly that high (yet) according to ANY of the dozens of polls that have been taken.  The highest number I have seen (and as an active 9-11 truther for over four years, I actually track these things) is about 33% who “question” the official story and believe that we have “not been told everything.”  The highest number is (not coincidentally) in NYC, where a full 49% believe the official story is a lie, and where an even greater number believe we should have a new investigation.  (I am on the committee to get a ballot initiative on the November ballot that would allow NYC voters to do just that.)

Ultimately, you are wrong about me, and probably (at least mostly) about hinnis.  You have a habit of engaging in ad hominem attacks on people rather than actually rebutting them.  This is neither good debate technique, nor is it helpful TO ANYONE - even those who may side with you.

I have said this before: you REALLY need to calm down, govern your passions, stop with the name-calling, accusations and ad hominem attacks, and engage in debate by either (i) presenting facts and theories, or (ii) rebutting others’ facts and theories with facts and theories of your own - but WITHOUT the unnecessary and unhelpful negativity you bring to these boards.

Peace.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 29, 2008 at 6:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Maani/Cyrena/Hinnis

From outside the ideological world of “candidate worship” politics, your differences do not look as grand as you may imagine….sort of a how-many-angels-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin type thing.

Both Token and the Business-shill took money from Citi Group (they’re the Jabba-the-hut of the banking world) Both believe in unlimited amnesty for the 20 million illegals in this country. Both believe in the Bush-Clinton-Bush version of “free” (meaning virtually unrestricted) trade. Both believe in unlimited issuance of H-1b visas. The two health care plans differ only in that Hill-the-business-shill would mandate regular payments to insurance companies and Obama would make the insurance Companies accept voluntary payments. Having carefully parsed their proclamations on “The War” actually there are a few wars) I find that Obama has (after a fashion) supported a continuation of the war. Neither candidate has a plan (at least one they have shared with the general public) which outlines steps for “orderly withdrawal” a phrase both have used endlessly.

So that leaves Hill with a nasty personality and a bill appendage, and Obama looking like Elmer Gantry with a Wright appendage.

Maani/Hinnis/Cyrena You have convinced me… Neither of these people deserves the position for which “We the People” advertised. 

Send them letters of disqualification, re-submit the ad, and get some new candidates.

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By jimmyjam, March 29, 2008 at 5:28 am Link to this comment

His name was Steele, not Webb
Democratic Dirty Tricks Target Black Politician
by George Prince Sunday, Sep. 25, 2005 at 6:44 AM


Democratic dirty tricks adn law breaking have targeted a prominent black politician in Maryland. In a blatant attempt to keep an Afrcan American of prominence and intellect from challenging the Democrats opening seat in the Senate, Democratic operatives have illegally obtained the credit report of Michael Steele. There is no proper purpose for such conduct other than to keep an African American off of the ballot in the upcoming Senate election in favor of the Democratic Party’s annointed candidate.
We don’t yet know who the candidates will be in Maryland’s Senate race next year. But we may already have had the first crime committed in the race to replace retiring Democrat Sen. Paul Sarbanes. The FBI is investigating how two operatives at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee obtained a copy of Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele’s credit report. If any laws were broken, charges will soon follow. The dirt is clearly piling up for this campaign.

Michael Steele is a prominent Marland lawyer and African American. he is currently the Lt. Govenor of Maryland. He is intelligent, well spoken and has long been an advocate of racial equality and opportunity. As Lt. Governor, Michael Steele plays a significant role in preserving and promoting Maryland’s five Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU): Coppin State College, Morgan State University, University of Maryland Eastern Shore, Bowie State University and Sojourner-Douglass College. He has advocated for Maryland’s Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU’s) to receive unprecedented funding in Maryland’s fiscal year 2005 budget. Maryland’s HBCU’s are slated to receive an ADDITIONAL $68 million, thanks to Micheal’s Steele’s efforts.

Yesterday the Washington Post named two Democratic staffers who are the likely culprits: Katie Barge and Lauren Weiner. Both have since resigned and the two are reportedly cooperating with the FBI investigation. Ms. Barge was the research director for the campaign committee and Ms. Weiner was working on “opposition research” on Mr. Steele. Mr. Steele’s credit report was likely obtained using his Social Security number, which was itself obtained from court documents. A Democratic spokesman said a supervisor quickly secured the credit report and ensured it was not disseminated.

We’ll see if that’s true in the coming months. At least the criminal investigation may take away the one area where Democrats have long planned to “find” mud to sling at Mr. Steele. In any case, should he formally announce for Mr. Sarbanes’ seat (as expected), raising money won’t be a problem. Even with his credit report floating around in political circles, Mr. Steele remains one of the best candidates for the Senate seat next year.

Please write to the Democratic party and tell them that you are outraged at such conduct. This behavior is demeaning to all Democrats and Progressives.

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By jimmyjam, March 29, 2008 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

Don’t take this as an insult.
Your final paragraph; PUBLIC OPINION, not yours only


You are acting brainwashed, Every politician as far back as I can remember was run over the coals by the press, the other party, and yes their own people(Webb from MD). It is how it is done. Should we not question anything about Obama, just because he is black? Just let him move into the White House. If that is the case , Hillary’s past record as First whatever she was shouldn’t matter, Whitewater is moot, Monica is a non issue, you have to ask questions and make accusations this is how the game has been played. I think it was Johnson who told his press secretary, to let it leak out that his political opponent was having sex with farm animals, The press secretary said, we cant say that, its a lie. Johnson said I know that ,but he has to prove its a lie, not us. It takes his mind off his game. Before a President can move in he should have his closet cleaned out, even Obama. If it means we have to look at all of his past associates then so be it. He chose to run for office, no one anointed him. So his relationship with Rev. Wright is very important to many, maybe not to you but to many. It is not racist to question what he has been doing for the last 20 years, it’s important to know so we wont have to worry if he is elected. and the way the pols show it, just as many whites as blacks have voted for Obama, so by your logic you not voting for Hillary is sexist, neither one has proven anything, except one can talk smooth. So in conclusion, you use terms like Brain-washing, you might want to look at your reflection.

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By jimmyjam, March 29, 2008 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

are trying to brainwash everyone here into thinking that Obama is the choice, they are trying to convince everyone here that he isn’t. that is what this is about. Obama is doing to Clinton /what Clinton is doing to Obama. When the chosen one is selected that person will do it to McCain, and I hope McCain will do it to that person. Right now Obama is slipping, and that is a fact. A couple of months ago Hillary started to slip, it,s like Al Gore and global warming . You riding your bicycle to work every day wont matter as long as I ride my H2 to work every day.

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By Outraged, March 29, 2008 at 3:01 am Link to this comment

Your quote:  “it was Outraged that made the false charge about racism…“In America, white people have NEVER been oppressed simply because of the color of their skin.”

You’re confused, my quote was NOT false.  In America “white people” have NEVER been OPPRESSED simply because of the color of their skin IS ACCURATE.  You are confusing racism with indentured servitude.  The two are NOT the same thing.

Merriam Websters Dict:
RACISM:  1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

SERVITUDE:  1 : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one’s course of action or way of life
2 : a right by which something (as a piece of land) owned by one person is subject to a specified use or enjoyment by another

While racism has a long history of EMPLOYING servitude, servitude is NOT RACISM.  Indentured servants were there because they were POOR.  Racism is the acknowledgement of the BELIEF of “an inherent superiority” of one race over another.

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By cyrena, March 28, 2008 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

Part 1 of 4
To Maani AND/OR Hinnis.

I am acknowledging the content of both your posts, in your claims that you are not the same ‘persona’ posting under various ‘handles’. That may or may not be true, but it’s also of secondary (or less) importance to the larger concept. What IS worth noting, (and I’m sure few have missed it), is that you are essentially IDEOLOGICAL TWINS. (maybe fraternal as opposed to identical).

In short, your ideological goals/motivations/etc are the same, as evidenced by your own postings on this public forum. Your tactics, including similar and sometimes identical language, are the same. You’ve both stated as much. At the end of the day, and based on your OWN PURPOSES, THAT is the point.

So, I’m going to spell it out for you again, with some ‘clues’ as to how you so immediately identify yourselves, because your arrogance prevents you from recognizing how easily you are ‘spotted’. Maani has actually been far more ‘adroit’  in the overall endeavors, and it could be because he actually DOES support HRC, for whatever the reasons, even though he’s long since resorted to the same ‘tactics’ that you have littered the site with, from the moment you came ‘on board’. YOU haven’t even pretended that much. (to support Hillary Clinton for this election). Rather, you started out with the demonizing of Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama by association/extension, from your very first post.

One thing that you’ve ignored in your arrogance, which is your failure to acknowledge that there are thinking people sharing the planet with you, is that what you attempt to accomplish here, is NOT NEW!  Con artists, propagandists, magicians, have been around since the beginning of time. We find them in ALL forms. They are politicians, preachers, teachers, lawyers, entertainers, and of course I could go on. This conning often goes by other names, such as BRAINWASHING!  Here is a dictionary definition:

•  1. IMPOSE BELIEFS ON SOMBODY: “to impose a set of usually political or religious beliefs on somebody by the use of various coercive methods of indoctrination, including destruction of the victim’s prior beliefs.”

•  2. CONDITION SOMEBODY TO BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY: “to induce somebody to believe or do something, e.g. to buy a new product, especially by means of constant repetition or advertising.”

You and others on this forum are for the most part, right in line with #1. While your ‘tactics’ may vary slightly, the most obvious has been the use of NEGATIVE propaganda, and the deliberate twisting of reality, to create a negative impression of Barack Obama.

Again, I would remind you that this has been in use since the beginning of time.
This “swift-boating” was employed for use on John Kerry during the 2004 election, and it is probably what COST him the election. Most adults in this day and age have witnessed this, (or been victimized by it ourselves) at some point in time. Again, it is NOT NEW.

This project to undermine/slander Obama was actually begun long ago…and long before either of you, (or these other ideologues) appeared on the scene. It is at the least, a year-long effort.  Specifically, there was an email campaign,  circulated by the same ‘types’ as you represent, claiming among other things that Obama was a Muslim, had attended a Madressa, wasn’t ‘really’ a Christian, and had only ‘recently’ joined a Christian church. All lies of course, but still enough to appeal to, and/or possibly convince/indoctrinate/brainwash/etc, those more easily fooled than others.

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By cyrena, March 28, 2008 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment

Part 2 of 4

Speaking of which; The REASONS why this brainwashing can be, and for centuries HAS been so effective, are as complex as the human and social psychology. That means that these ‘tactics’ will in fact ‘work’ on some people. On the other hand, they will NOT work on others. Consequently, one takes a chance at employing such deceptive and coercive measures. How do I know this? Well, NOT because I’m ‘special’ or ‘brilliant’, or have a ‘6th sense’ or eyes in the back of my head. There are MILLIONS us who do not fall so easily to these tactics. It doesn’t mean that we ourselves can’t sometimes ‘be fooled’ or induced to certain thinking or behaviors, even when it goes against our own best interests. Witness the election of Dick Bush –BOTH TIMES-! And no, I’m not one of ‘that group’ since I was well aware of the nightmare they had in store for us. HOWEVER, even I could never have imagined the extent of it.

But, I digress. My point is that not all people will accept the tricks at face value. There are plenty of average folks walking around, who exercise their individual intellects, to look below the surface of any issue, to find out what it REALLY is! You’ve come up against more than a few, right here on this forum. Outraged wasn’t willing to accept your interpretation of various ‘incidents’ or comments about Obama, despite all the videos and the like. Maani has run into similar troubles himself. That is to say that there are those who will NOT accept the ‘as advertised’ goods, without checking the sources of them, or thoroughly analyzing what is really being projected. The current Administration’s, created story to ‘sell us’ their version of 9/11 is another example. Most Americans don’t believe it any longer, IF they ever did.

That is NOT to suggest that there are NOT people who are and will remain unconvinced of the truth of reality, because they too, are either ideologically or psychologically compromised. This is a favorite accusation from Maani. He loves to claim that “Obamamanics” support him only out of some visceral or otherwise irrational belief structure, and that they therefore ‘rationalize’ away, any possible criticisms of him. For the most part, that too is a lie, and yet another coercive ‘tactic’ to intimidate people into accepting a belief that they don’t hold. I would agree however, that there are occasions when this ‘phenomena’ does exist.

An example that should be very familiar to most of us is the trial of OJ Simpson just over a decade ago. Yes, there were people who were firmly convinced that OJ Simpson was ‘innocent’. BUT, not that many!  Of the few who were absolutely CONVINCED of his ‘innocence’, we find the usual human psychology. For instance, at one point during that egregiously long trial, (though probably far more than once) one of OJ’s nieces asked her mother, (OJ’s sister) if she thought that maybe he HAD committed that horrific crime. Well, her mother went semi-hysterical, and said absolutely NOT, and commanded her daughter never to suggest such a thing again. It was the SAME with a few people that I’ve known most of my adult life. A family friend who treated OJ like one of her own, (he’d played ball with her own son). She absolutely refused to accept the reality of OJ’s almost certain guilt. These many years later, she still feels the same way. Maybe, possibly, somewhere far hidden in their own consciousness, they actually do know. But, they will never accept it. Such is the human psyche.

STILL, those people are at a minimum, and I believe MOST reasonable, logical, rational, and objective people who sat through that trial, and followed all of the ‘side events’ , know perfectly well that OJ was guilty. So, did OJ’s lawyers play the ‘REVERSE race card’? I would say yes…absolutely. I’ll even tell you HOW. First though, it’s critically important to comprehend that this REVERSE of the ‘race card’ could never have been utilized, if the RACISM DIDN’T EXIST TO BEGIN WITH!

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By cyrena, March 28, 2008 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

Part 3 of 4
The ultimate explanation for the verdict in that trial, (which was NOT –innocent- but rather ‘not guilty’) was concisely articulated by author Lawrence Schiller. He suggested that the LAPD in essence, “FRAMED A GUILTY MAN!” I’m inclined to agree. The inconsistencies in the details/evidence presented in the trial prove that out. The fact that standard police and legal protocol were not followed gives credence to the same. So, how did they utilize the ‘reverse race card’ to get him off?

His legal team carefully selected a panel of jurors who were HIGHLY LIKELY to have (at some point in their lives in Los Angeles) SUFFERED the SAME, ‘framing’ or the same ‘racial profiling’. If not they themselves, then SOMEBODY they knew; a spouse, a child, a parent, a co-worker, whomever…who had been victimized by unfair changes of the LAPD. I can attest to this because I was born and raised in LA, and I know it only too well. People of color were then, and have always been, ‘targeted’ by the LAPD, and other law enforcement agencies. It is because so many people COULD relate to that –as a reality that they live everyday- that Simpson’s legal team was able to emphasize THOSE aspects of the case, allowing that jury to accept (or possibly rationalize) that OJ may very well have been framed. That also allowed them to AQUIT him, which is NOT the same as pronouncing him ‘innocent’ in the legal context upon with our criminal justice system is structured. They could have accepted that he was ‘framed’ without much of a ‘stretch’, because he WAS ‘framed’!  It’s just that he was ALSO guilty!

Had the LAPD NOT decided to ‘help their case along’ by manipulating evidence, and disregarding protocol, (jumping over gates and such) the outcome could have, (and probably would have) been different. We even know that from his subsequent civil trials. The far more important issue here is that the legal team would never have been able to play the ‘reverse race card’ to begin with, if racism itself were not endemic in the social structure of Los Angeles.

It is also endemic in the social fabric of the US, and anyone who continues to willfully ignore that is guilty of its perpetuation. There are many here who may NOT be consciously aware of their own racism, as a result of ignorance and the brain washing that I’ve already addressed. That TOO, is endemic. Just as OJ’s relatives could not allow themselves to consider that he may have in fact ‘done the crime’, there are a few who would hold on to their far more fundamentally steeped prejudices against people of color.

Others of you are perfectly well aware of it (such as Clinton’s campaign) and that’s why racism has yet again become the basis for political brainwashing, and the destruction of a candidate not acceptable to the “Establishment”. You play to the entrenched fears of the ignorant and the insecure. You use the same fear and hate mongering that has been employed by the thugs of the administration in their fake ‘war on terror’ or war on everything Islamic. You CREATE an ‘enemy’ that doesn’t exist.

This is EXACTLY what has occurred with the very deliberate creation of Jeremiah Wright as some sort of a demigod or radical, and then Barack Obama by association. And yes, like the OJ Simpson debacle, it’s effective because it’s based on the racism that has always existed in our society. The truth is that if OJ Simpson had not been a black man and recognized as a ‘successful’ one, in terms of our societies’  (and Hollywood’s) superficial and materialistic ideological values;  and if his slain ex-wife hadn’t happened to be white, his case would never have even become ‘known’ to anyone outside of Los Angeles County. Even there, it might not have been ‘news’ for very long.

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By cyrena, March 28, 2008 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

Part 4 of 4

It’s exactly the same thing with Jeremiah Wright. The man has been preaching sermons in his own community, and has been a respected speaker within the greater religious communities for probably close to 30 years, -  with LITTLE FANFARE, as David Sirota so excellently points out.  In respect to Rev. Wright, there has been ‘little fanfare’ (until Barack Obama became a viable presidential candidate) because there is absolutely NOTHING ‘untoward’ or even untruthful in his rhetoric. The people he’s been addressing for all of these years in his capacity as a minister know that truth perfectly well. They live it. Additionally, the dominant culture and/or the ‘Establishment’ know it. The FACT that Rev. Wright was a guest at the Clinton White House in 1998 is something that his haters and lynch mob have conveniently chosen to ignore, as has the Clinton campaign. Your claims that Jeremiah Wright espouses some radical black separatist ideology are ludicrous, ON THEIR FACE, and we all know that as well.

That says it all really. It’s about the racism. Posters like you, (hinnis) and others that we’ve previously recognized, are of the SAME mentality that whips up the emotional and ideological frenzy that overtakes a lynch mob.  History has provided hundreds of very real-life examples. You may or may not be wearing your hoods, or your pointed ‘wizard’ hats, or chasing through neighborhoods with burning crosses. Regardless, we ‘recognize’ you AND your terror tactics!

So when YOU – HINNIS, show up on a public forum, arrogantly claiming to ‘inform’ those of us who are ‘uniformed’ or otherwise misinformed, we see it for what it is. It’s terror by brainwashing. It’s terror by attempted manipulation of public opinion by lies and slander.

Be advised. We’re not having it.

(cross-posted elsewhere)

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

I don’t mind that Rev. Wright speaks his mind, however, I do not happen to appreciate racism.  As such, he is definitely not someone who I could ever consider to be my “mentor and spiritual adviser,” and I question the judgment of someone who does countenance such racist views.

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By Maani, March 28, 2008 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Hinnis:

In additon to the money he has taken from oil and gas companies, Obama has also taken in millions from energy companies - including ~$200,000 from Exelon, the company he CLAIMS he passed legislation against, when in actuality he WEAKENED the legislation (thus betraying his constituents) and then ended up having the bill fail utterly.  [N.B. Exelon also owns Three Mile Island: the 29th anniversary of the meltdown is today, 3/28.]

As well, Obama’s “bundler” for energy money is none other than the CEO of Commmonwealth Edison, which is owned by Exelon.

Peace.

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By Muscleboy, March 28, 2008 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Personally I don’t think clergy of any religion, most especially in a country that is supposedly free such as the United States, should in anyway control themselves.  They should explode on the issues of the day.  They should confront us in ways they force us to take a look at the evil deeds we and our society may or may not be doing. They may not always be correct but I will tell you nothing makes me sicker to my stomach than a so-called member of the clergy that goes along with the mainstream view on things especially when the mainstream view in America is crafted by fascists and their fascist owned media companies.  Everyone should get their pastors to wake up and read more than the Bible in preparing their sermon.  Open yourself up to truthful media sources like commondreams.org and truthdig.com.

I certainly don’t condemn the Reverend Wright for speaking his mind.  You can bet Jesus would be very very angry about much of what is going on today and wouldn’t hold back saying so.  But I did very much enjoy some of those issue focused videos at the Pittsburgh paper.  And I hope Hillary or Obama whoever makes president remembers that great city when they take office it has suffered economically since big steel was lost in the USA.  Could it be a great center for some of the alternative energy conversion program money?  I just happened across Pittsburgh news and boy does sure look like they are trying to figure ways to keep things going.

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

rom NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan
GREENBURG, Pa.—The Clinton campaign today accused the Obama campaign of “false advertising,” claiming that a recent ad Obama released in Pennsylvania was disngenous because Obama has been the recipient of more than $200,000 from the oil and gas industry.
In the ad, Obama says, “I’m Barack Obama, and I don’t take money from oil companies or lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change any more.”
Obama has taken $213,884 from the oil and gas industry as of Feb. 29th, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Sen. Hillary Clinton has taken $306,813 in that same period.
Two of Obama’s campaign bundlers are also CEOs for oil and gas companies, per a list released on his campaign Web site.
Robert Cavnar, listed as a bundler who has raised between $50,000 to $100,000 for the campaign, is the chairman and CEO of Mission Resources Corp., a Houston-based firm. George Kaiser, also listed in the same $50,000 to $100,000 category, is the CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Company.
“It’s unfortunate that Senator Obama is using false advertising to explain why he can be trusted to do something about energy prices,” Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said.  “Senator Obama says he doesn’t take campaign contributions from oil companies but the reality is that Exxon, Shell, and others are among his donors.”

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 7:08 pm Link to this comment

Judicial Watch: Obama ‘intended to leave no paper trail’
By Klaus Marre
Posted: 03/26/08 01:01 PM [ET]
The president of a prominent watchdog group said Wednesday that he believes Democratic presidential frontrunner Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) “intended to leave no paper trail” during his time in the Illinois Senate.
 


Judicial Watch, which has been seeking access to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) records from her time in the White House, argued Wednesday that the Illinois senator, who has criticized the former first lady for a lack of openness, has his own “records problem.”
“The more we learn about the Illinois Senator, the more obvious it becomes that he is anything but the ethically upright outsider he purports to be,” said Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch.
The group rose to prominence when it repeatedly took on former President Bill Clinton during his time in office. It also sought records from the Bush administration regarding Vice President Dick Cheney’s energy task force.
In a statement, Fitton noted that his group has sought access to Obama’s records as a state senator and questioned whether the presidential candidate has been forthcoming with regard to what happened to those documents.
He said that “nobody knows where they are, if they exist at all” and claimed that “Obama’s story keeps changing.”

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

First, how do any of us know that his congregation was “well educated and discerning?”  Most probably, they are just any other congregation, made up of people of all levels of education and discernment.  As to the Americans during the American Revolution, they were fighting FOR America against the British. I don’t think one can compare Wright’s racist and anti-American rants to the discourse of those who were trying to establish an independent union.  I’m not sure if you are a Democrat or Republican, but as a Democrat, I have to wonder when we became the party that rationalizes and makes excuses for racism.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, March 28, 2008 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

Up until this event with Wright, I’d never heard of him. 

I was more concerned with Iraq, Gaza and Tibet and the AIPAC spy trial (yeah, another one) going on.

Obviously his congregation was populated with sucessful Black American citizens who are well educated and discerning enough to know that if he was as much of a scoundral as many posters here would have it, they would have left long ago.

I wasn’t there that day nor have I listened long enough to any of his sermons to know what was in his heart, but neither do any of you.

During the American Revolution many of the same mind met in churches and bitched about the same things Wright did.

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

Jimmyjam:  Whenever Cyrena and Aegrus get backed in a corner and cannot respond intelligently, they, like their “mentor and spiritual adviser” Obama, play the race card.  They can’t help it.

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

Jimmyjam:  I had heard Oprah had dropped out of the church.  She probably wanted to get out before the s*** hit the fan.  After all, her reputation is her business.  Regarding the believability of the story, on another site they actually have reproduced the public records documenting this transaction.  I’m not against a church providing for their pastor/minister after years of service, but this seems very hypocritical.  Wright gives sermons about the “white rich people” and the evils of “middleclassedness” (his word), and he’s going to be living in luxury for the rest of his life on the church’s dime.  Also, how in the heck can you get a $10 million line of credit on a property worth roughly $2,000,000?  I would imagine that the church would have guaranteed the loan, at 8.2% interest, but I wonder what it is for.  We will probably never find out, or at least not until AFTER the election.

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By jimmyjam, March 28, 2008 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena and Aegrus have no problem with calling TWP a racist? All he did was post a transcript from a renowned writer that has a different opinion, I don’t think makes him a racist. It means he is a little more opened minded , it was Outraged that made the false charge about racism…“In America, white people have NEVER been oppressed simply because of the color of their skin.”

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By jimmyjam, March 28, 2008 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment

Nobody will believe it because Fox broke the story.

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By jimmyjam, March 28, 2008 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment

I just put this on another post, I live less than a mile from there, Gated private country club, called Odyssey, Its in Tinley Park Illinois, But this is a good thing, He is just down the street from Country Club Hills, Chicago Heights,Harvey,Dixmoor Posen and Markham Illinois Some of the poorest cities in the country.  But I,m sure he will tear down those fences surrounding his mansion and have them all over for a prayer breakfast. By the way did you know Oprah dropped out of that church a couple of months ago.

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

I guess Rev. Wright has found the answer to the housing crisis. Wright has made a lot of money preaching hatred towards “white people” and America, and that, in the eyes of his church, has earned him a multi-million dollar, 10,000 square foot retirement home, property tax free for the rest of his life. There is also a $10,000,000 line of credit on the property; which seems rather odd, in that a $10,000,000 line of credit seems a little excessive on a property worth approximately $2,000,000.  See:  http://tinyurl.com/3dch2g

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 10:16 am Link to this comment

You obviously like and approve of the kinds of statements made by Wright, as well as his brand of black liberation theology.  On the other hand, I do not appreciate such statements or the so-called “theology” of his church.  Rather than going back and forth on this issue when neither of us can reach an accord, why don’t we just leave it at that.  Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

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By hinnis, March 28, 2008 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Maani:  I have no idea what Cyrena is talking about regarding you and I (and perhaps many others) being the same person.  I’ve decided that in light of the irrational rants of hers, for me, it is just best to ignore her.  On another note, I don’t see Karl Rove in Hillary, either.  The Bush/Rove Republican attack machine was known for several things, among which were (1) Making up stories which were untrue to damage their opponents(i.e. Kerry’s swifboating) and (2) Using divisive issues to solidify their base (e.g. gay bashing/gay marriage initiatives).  I don’t see the Clinton’s doing either of these things.  As you implied, the Clintons are fighters; they were attacked by the right wing Republicans from the day Bill Clinton took office, and they are still standing. Whoever becomes the Democratic nominee is going to have to have that kind of fortitude to sustain the coming barrage of misinformation and divisive tactics which are sure to follow from the other side.

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By Maani, March 28, 2008 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

Cyrena:

I repeat that I am NOT hinnis.  If you wish to address something to me, feel free.  If you wish to address something to him/her, feel free.  As you are well aware, I have never had a problem speaking my mind under my own name - no matter how much you disagree with it - so I have no need to add aliases.

That said, I do not like Karl Rove, and never did.  I do not agree with his methods, nor do I think that Hillary is using them.  Bill was a “take no prisoners” campaigner long before we ever heard of Karl Rove.  That may or may not be a good thing, but, if anything, Hillary is taking a page from Bill’s book, not from Rove’s.

Peace.

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By jack, March 28, 2008 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you listen to the whole speech not the fragments pasted together my the media you will understand why many (Black and white) are angy at the media for misleading the public.  Do not be so carried away by the propaganda that you do not even know the whole story.  The sermon was “God and Government” He talked about the poweful government of the past , how they exploited others and how their downfalls. He then discusses how governments can change ( i.e. NAzi Germany).
He complains about the US practices /wrongdoings in its history against white women, Blacks, Native Americans and the Japanese.  His statement was actually we well be saying instead os God Blass America , God “Damm” America for thinking she is God and is supreme, Its in the Bible ( the prediction of the downfall of governments who engage in unethical, immoral abusive actions. (above the law of God).
To refuse to read/listen to his sermon is to refuse to seek understanding of other Americans and to presume a psuedo superiority above others.  I am not saying you find a few of his statements controvesial, but they are not hateful or racist. Read/listen to the entire text and tell me which statemnt you find racist or hateful.  I cannot find any in the full text. Never fully trust the media.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 28, 2008 at 5:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Malcolm X had red hair which he got from his slave-owner rapist Grandfather. 

Guess one has to live in hell for awhile to truly KNOW the devil.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 28, 2008 at 3:25 am Link to this comment

I don’t want to presume what Manni will answer but may I ask? Is it even POSSIBLE to not listen to the words of Rev. Wright? When CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and of course talk radio discusses the lack of a Wright-effect in the latest polls in endless detail? (“Isn’t Obama great? Nothing can hurt him!” The pundits fawn) Tomorrow it will be all of this anti-Jew and anti-itallian garbage that was just discovered. Gee. Wonder what Limbaugh and Fox will talk about today? I just heard Scarborough mention that some of Wright’s Anti-American tirades even came up during a WEDDING service. How’s THAT possible to slip in? “Do you promise to love, honor, cherish? Do you promise not to be enslaved by RICH, WHITE, PEOPLE?!!!” Tomorrow I’m sure someone will produce the video of the Obama wedding ceremony where Wright calls for jihad or some shit. Not to mention the Wright-Wing radio, heck even NPR got into the act yesterday… This is a story that those in the business would say, “has some legs”.

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By cyrena, March 27, 2008 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Maani/hinnis writes:

•  “Nobama:  Obama supporters cannot see racism in anything related to Obama or Rev. Wright; they only see it in others.”

Now THIS is another way to say the same thing that Obama supporters (specifically) have been ‘accused’ of for months. And, I’m actually grateful for this, because it gives me yet another opportunity to put the truth to the distortion.

You see, it’s NOT a matter of Obama supporters, or supporters of ANY OTHER CANDDATE, not being able to ‘see racism’ in anything related to Obama or Rev. Wright. THAT would be an oxymoron if there ever was one.

RATHER, Obama supporters, and anyone else with a measure of intelligence, regardless of whom they support, are only willing to see WHAT THERE IS TO SEE, and NOT have a ‘created reality’ shoved down their throats, from those determined to do just that.

So intelligent people will believe and evaluate what they see and hear for themselves, and not something that has been twisted and distorted by a propagandist, with the intention of shoving it down our throats.

So yeah, we DEFINITELY see some racism going on here, but WE can determine well enough, where it lies, and what effects it might be having, and on whom.

So, hinnis/maani…you should never have allowed yourself to be suckered by your personal hero Karl Rove, when he told you that you all were an empire, and so you could create your own realities. You might be able to create them for YOURSELF, but he didn’t give you a guarantee that you could shove them on everyone else who knows better.

You never did mention who YOU support hinnis. Is it John McCain, Pat Robertson, John Hagee, or do you have another one you’d like to write in on the ticket. Mickey Mouse maybe? He’s a regular on the repug ticket you know.

Never mind. I forgot. You aren’t here on this blog because you SUPPORT anybody. You’re just here as the ANTI-Obama specialist.

BYW…I intentionally didn’t post this as a ‘reply’ because I didn’t want to subject the other readers to the rest of the racist tripe of your post, before we could get to the punch line.

The punch line of course being the standard accusation that those who DON’T hate Obama, just can’t see his racism’.

It’s clear that you haven’t had much exposure to the population opinions of the overall American citizenry.

All of you hate propagandists/racists didn’t start popping up until the rest of the public started making their feelings known, via public polls. You’ve admitted that much yourself.

I’d say that before that, it’s pretty obvious that you never bothered to think or care about what other average citizens thought.

Typical arrogant white repug.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

Maani:  It is sad, pathetic, and counterproductive that the only response left to some of those who support Obama is to play the race card.  As you noted, there are no statements of hate or racism in your posts, or in mine.  They have learned well from their Messiah.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

Yes, only about 20 years too late.  Obama’s cynicism is only exceeded by his hubris.  Maybe some poor fools will fall for this obvious attempt to rehabilitate his image, but serious observers will see this for exactly what it is; another attempt to fool the American public.

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By Maani, March 27, 2008 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

“OBAMA WOULD HAVE LEFT IF WRIGHT STAYED”

Well now.  THIS is awfully coincidental - to say nothing of YEARS too late to make any difference.  Key, kids…can you spell “political expediency?”

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_WRIGHT?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Peace.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

I appreciate your comments, but I’m not sure that Obama’s mixed heritage is relevant.  For example, when Louis Farrakhan was extolling the virtues of Obama recently to his followers, he made a point of telling them that Malcolm X also had a white mother.  Yes, Malcolm X, who hated white people with a passion until his conversion from the Nation of Islam (just before his murder by NOI members).

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

You asked me several questions, and for some reason I cannot post the reply under yours, so I’ll try here. 

First, let me say that prior to this nomination process, I have never posted a comment on any blog on any subject.  Second, I have never posted a comment on any subject other than the current Democratic Party’s nomination process. Because the individuals involved in the incidences which you mentioned are not running for the Democratic nomination, or directly related to a candidate who is, I have not posted any comments on these issues.  However, I’d be happy to tell you my opinion on these issues.

Jena Louisiana Trial:  Should black students be able to congregate anywhere they wish at at school?  Yes.  Was it hateful and wrong for the white kids to hang nooses on the tree with racist messages?  Absolutely.  Was their punishment too lenient. Yes.  Was it wrong for six black students to attack a white student?  Yes.  Should they be prosecuted for the assault (assuming that there is evidence that they are guilty of such)?  Yes.  Should the punishment fit the crime?  Yes.  Does it look like the prosecutor is overreaching in his attempt to throw the book at the black kids?  Yes.

Don Imus:  Don Imus is an idiot, period.

Katrina victims:  Katrina was grossly mishandled both prior to the incident and after.

The torture of Megan Williams:  In this case, the two perpetrators received the maximum sentence under the law, and they deserved that, and more.  I think there is a serious issue as to whether individuals who are capable of such things should be on the streets, period.

John Hagee:  An obvious bigot regarding his positions on Catholics; obvious warmonger for his rush to attack Iran.  Do not agree with his statements on Katrina, Islam, women, and homosexuality, either.  Him blaming Katrina on gays is just as bad as Rev. Wright saying “In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01.”  If he were Hillary Clinton’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” for 20 years, I would strongly condemn the relationship, and she would not get my vote.

Rod Parsley:  Another alleged religious figure with which I disagree. Do not like his bigotry against gays or against Muslims in general.  If he were Hillary Clinton’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” for 20 years, I would strongly denounce him, and again, she would not get my vote.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry:  So, it’s the media who “misreported” the statements.  Actually, Obama is awfully lucky that the media does not do an expose on the true nature of his so-called “religion,” black liberation theology.  Then he would really have a problem with the majority of Americans that he would be hard pressed to remedy.

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By Maani, March 27, 2008 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

Outraged:

First, I am not hinnis.  So if that comment was meant for him, please address it to him.

I have never ever sent a post full of hate.  I challenge you to find one WORD of hate that I have ever posted on this site - or any other site, for that matter.

Please make sure you are addressing your comments to the correct person.  I repeat: I have NEVER registered or posted under any name other than my own, either here or anywhere else, and I never will.

Whoever hinnis is, s/he is not me.

Peace.

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By Maani, March 27, 2008 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena:

I am not hinnis.  I have never registered under any name other than my own.  Stop with the outrageous accusations already.

Peace.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

It is difficult to respond, because your post makes allegations which are inaccurate.  Nowhere in my posts have I attempted to “explain how others should live, feel and react.”  I am merely stating my opinions, just like you, and providing information.  You said you are “not excusing” Wright, BUT . . .  Well, I just happen to disagree with you.  I am not excusing Wright for his racism, period, just like I don’t excuse David Duke for his, the KKK for theirs, etc.  Just like you, I have a right to an opinion.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

Joe, you are absolutely correct.  It is a pity what sometimes passes as religion.  Any so-called pastors, ministers, priests, or rabbis who preach hate are not preaching religion, they are USING religion to promote their own agenda. It is a national disgrace.  Maybe if something good has come of this Obama/Wright affair, it is that it has drawn attention to the issue; it has brought it out in the open.  Maybe through this exposure, it will be less accepted, and God willing, maybe even someday, a thing of the past.

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By cyrena, March 27, 2008 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

So hinnis,

Who’s been holding the weapons to your head, to FORCE you to listen to Rev. Wright?

Let me know, there’s a law against that you know.

Because you’re right of course…to each his/her own, and that would mean that most folks don’t seem to interpret the remarks from Rev. Wright as racist or anti-American, because..THEY AREN’T!

Still, I’d like to know who forced YOU to listen to them, and who forced your own twisted interpretation that the remarks were racist or anti-American.

Like I said, we can’t have that. It’s against the law for anyone to force you to listen to, or otherwise participate in any events or discussions that you find offensive.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

First, let me say that prior to this nomination process, I have never posted a comment on any blog on any subject.  Second, I have never posted a comment on any subject other than the current Democratic Party’s nomination process. Because the individuals involved in the incidences which you mentioned are not running for the Democratic nomination, or directly related to a candidate who is, I have not posted any comments on these issues.  However, I’d be happy to tell you my opinion on these issues.

Jena Louisiana Trial:  Should black students be able to congregate anywhere they wish at at school?  Yes.  Was it hateful and wrong for the white kids to hang nooses on the tree with racist messages?  Absolutely.  Was their punishment too lenient. Yes.  Was it wrong for six black students to attack a white student?  Yes.  Should they be prosecuted for the assault (assuming that there is evidence that they are guilty of such)?  Yes.  Should the punishment fit the crime?  Yes.  Does it look like the prosecutor is overreaching in his attempt to throw the book at the black kids?  Yes.

Don Imus:  Don Imus is an idiot, period.

Katrina victims:  Katrina was grossly mishandled both prior to the incident and after.

The torture of Megan Williams:  In this case, the two perpetrators received the maximum sentence under the law, and they deserved that, and more.  I think there is a serious issue as to whether individuals who are capable of such things should be on the streets, period.

John Hagee:  An obvious bigot regarding his positions on Catholics; obvious warmonger for his rush to attack Iran.  Do not agree with his statements on Katrina, Islam, women, and homosexuality, either.  Him blaming Katrina on gays is just as bad as Rev. Wright saying “In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01.”  If he were Hillary Clinton’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” for 20 years, I would strongly condemn the relationship, and she would not get my vote.

Rod Parsley:  Another alleged religious figure with which I disagree. Do not like his bigotry against gays or against Muslims in general.  If he were Hillary Clinton’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” for 20 years, I would strongly denounce him, and again, she would not get my vote.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 27, 2008 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

At my church our pastor preaches love of all people, not just one people. After reading some of Rev. Wright’s writings about the Jews and Italians I am just stunned. One has to wonder if there are any other acceptable races in the eyes of Rev. Wright, or is it just his?

In this country you have the right to practice any religion you desire without question. I respect that right and I would personally take up arms to defend that right. In the course of my own religious education I was shocked and disgusted to read that the Romans at one time enslaved my people and feed them to lions. Today I am not taught in church to hate the Romans for this. Nor am I taught to call them ‘Garlic Noses” because of it.

In this country you have the right to sit in any church you want on Sunday. While I may not agree with the teachings of Pastor Wight I cannot argue that his beliefs should not be taught. I do not, however have to vote for any man or woman who chooses to learn from or finacially support those who preach this kind of hate. I have faith that most good Americans won’t either. Senator Obama has the right to pray at whatever alter he believes is best, but he must realize that some beliefs, in the eyes of the people, may disqualify you to be elected President of the United States. I believe by supporting this chuch Obama has done just that.

I encourage all of us to pray tonight for guidance and love.

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By PatrickHenry, March 27, 2008 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Wrights comments were misreported by the media and parrotted by posters such as yourself.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment

Aegrus:  I have no problem with minorities, or anyone else for that matter having grievances with the government.  God knows, the government deserves.  My problem is when someone, like Rev. Wright, injects racism into the equation, and blames all of the world’s ills on one race, i.e. “white people.”  He cloaks his racism in religion, and I find that despicable.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

Yes, racism is inexcusable.  Maybe we should just ship Don Imus, Rev. Wright, and all the other racists to some deserted island somewhere smile

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

Most of my posts contain EXACT quotes from James Cone, Rev. Wrights theological mentor.  If you can prove me wrong, go ahead and try.  And, if you don’t like the racist tenor of one of the architects of Obama’s so-called “religion”, then take it up with Obama, Wright, or Cone, not me.

Your point about the media is well taken.  Many have noticed the free pass given to Obama during so much of the nomination process.  There are numerous blogs, for example, CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post and others, who will censor comments which are critical of Obama.  I’m not sure about the agenda, but the bias is obvious.

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By hinnis, March 27, 2008 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

You consider it a privilege to listen to Rev. Wright; many of us consider it offensive and indefensible, just like we would if a white “pastor” made racist and anti-American statements.  To each his or her own.

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