I have cross-posted this article on another thread. Just so you know. Unfortunately (and I do mean that) it seems to be ‘on topic’ for just about every thread going these days.

Then again, maybe it’s NOT so unfortunate, since we ALL need to deal with this, including the most secular and atheist among us. More than that though, the most RACIST among us need to come to grips with the fact that it is not the advantage of ANY of us, to maintain such ideologies.

==================

Harassment at Obama’s Church Is Detailed
By CATRIN EINHORN

After mostly avoiding the media and declining interview requests, officials at Trinity United Church of Christ, home church to Senator Barack Obama and Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, changed tactics Thursday, and described how the church has faced threats and other forms of harassment in recent weeks.

Standing at Trinity’s pulpit, flanked by church leaders of various denominations, Rev. John H. Thomas, the president of the United Church of Christ, looked into the cluster of cameras and called for a nationwide dialogue on race, including a preach-in on May 18 (called “Trinity Sunday,” he pointed out, on the ecumenical calendar).

“We will be asking our nearly 10,000 U.C.C. pastors across this nation to use their pulpits to begin to address the subject of race,” Mr. Thomas said, noting the symbolism of the day, which marks 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s final sermon.
“We believe that this is an important first step in beginning the broader conversation that needs to take place in our nation, in our communities and, especially, in our houses of worship.”

Church officials said they have received email and phone threats in the wake of the controversy over Mr. Wright’s comments, leading them to increase security. In one example, a caller said that Mr. Wright was going to see Jesus sooner than he thinks.
Rev. Otis Moss III, who is taking over from Jeremiah Wright as senior pastor, admonished members of the press for their behavior over the past few weeks. Reporters have harassed parishioners on their way in and out of church, he said. They have snuck inside and interrupted services. They even got hold of a list of sick parishioners and called people who were in hospice care, he added.

Mr. Moss declared that the church was reclaiming its “sacred space.”

“We respect your right to report the news,” Mr. Moss sternly told reporters. “Please respect our right to worship God.”

Then he turned playful.

“Now if you’re a member of the media and you’re looking for a church home, we welcome you to Trinity United Church of Christ,” he said. “There is no greater church this side of the Jordan.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/haras sment-at-obamas-church-is-detailed/index.html?ex=1364961600& en=415d548b1b497939&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc= rss

Thanks for this info CY.

And, I have in fact copied your address, so I’ll get in touch.

Thanks again…this is helpful.

Barb:

Even were I not a Hillary supporter, I would ask: who died and made you God?  By what right do you decide who is saved and who is not?  Yes, Hillary lies.  But so does Obama.  And so do ALL politicians.

As well, where on earth did you get the idea that Rev. Wright “pastored” Bill Clinton?  What are you smoking?

Your blatant judgmentalism and condemnation show a spiritual arrogance that lacks any sense of humility, forgiveness, love, peace or any of the other precepts of Christ’s ministry.

You may want to reconsider your attitude and approach - to say nothing of your research.

Peace.

CY,

This makes sense to me, about the value of the dollar and the avalanche effect, at least to the extent that I can follow it.  (math isn’t one of my wizardries)

BUT, doesn’t that leave out the supply and demand part of the equation, at least to the thing about ‘prices at the well’?

For instances, I understand what you mean about prices at the well-head not being that ‘negotiable’ (I use that for lack of a better term) because for the most part, they belong to ‘others’.

But, you also suggest that the value of the US currency can be adjusted, because it is “the currency used to trade most oil.”

But, it seems to me like that might be the catch. At least from the way I’ve understood some of the little known facts such as Saddam Hussein was about to begin doing business in the EURO, (at least for the nationalized oil of Iraq, allegedly the worlds 3rd largest supply of the stuff, some of those fields not even yet proven). AND, that he was about to begin selling as much as he could pump, (never mind the OPEC stuff) and was gonna sell it to whomever had enough EURO’s to buy it!! (and as much as they wanted of it!) And, I presume he would have accepted the Yen, and whatever China’s currency is as well. Matter of fact, he didn’t seem to care, but it was the Euro he was most interested in doing business in.

Now, all things considered, wouldn’t this have made some really big changes in the global economy, and maybe even made the dollar worth, well…ZIP?

Now I don’t pretend to know or understand this entirely. I do have a colleague that is working this up for a thesis, and he claims he’s even got Congressional discussion on the record that was really concerned about this happening, because (according to him) it would have given us an instant economic crash nearly 6 years ago, that would make the upcoming depression look like just one bad night at the poker tables.

So, that’s why I’m curious. I’m equally curious about the fact that the gas at the pump prices can vary as much as .65-70 a gallon from one demographic location to the next, separated by as little as 30 miles, and as much as 900 miles. (For instance the gas L.A. runs anywhere from 20 to 47 cents less than the gas 100 miles to the north or east.) The gas in Dallas, Tx has consistently been 30 to 50 cheaper than it has in any place in California. And that’s been since The Coup nearly 8 years ago, and we know that overall, the price has tripled since then.

So, what do you suppose accounts for those particular fluctuations? I’m just curious.

First, I am a strong supporter for campaign finance reform.

In the capitalist tradition, the ability to raise campaign funding is sacrosanct, demonstrating the ability to persuade and thereby lead.  The candidates handling of the campaign finances from providing insurance to paying debts is a microcosm of how the will run government.

Here, clearly Hillary has missed the boat.

I apoligize for the Hillary shot, Obama girl was on the same site, which I was inferring, sometime cutting and pasting these websites gets tricky.

My bad.

Outraged DEFINITELY speaks for ME!!

So, what part of WE DON’T CARE do you not understand…HINNIS?

S/He just can’t ‘get it’ outraged, that…NOBODY CARES.

(apparently including his/her gramma).

It’s like once folks figure out, (and sometimes it takes longer than others) there’s no way to FIX it.

We simply dispose of what is garbage, and/or otherwise ignore it, once it’s been identified as such.

Hinnis doesn’t get it though.

Ya gotta admit, he/she isn’t the only one.

Speaking of which..if I had money to bet, I’d ‘bet’ that hinnis is a he. Women are generally far smarter, and know when they’re beating a dead horse.

Quote from Matt Taibbi:  ““ We can’t keep our eyes on the ball and really think about the serious endemic problems of our system of government because we’re too busy freaking out like a bunch of cartoon characters over silly, meaningless bullshit. And then forgetting about that same bullshit ten minutes later, so that we can freak out all over again about something else later on.”

Full Article:  http://www.alternet.org/election08/80577/

Thanks for the chuckle cyrena.

Nice to know a few who think to care, or care to think are still prowling this thread.

Guess I must have been right about the porta-potty eh? Notice no-one commented on that! I figured that would really make them mad.

so little time, so much trashing to do. And so many small minds to feed the trash into the mill.

My goodness, is this really support for the other candidate? I don’t think so. I think they’re just warming up for the attack on her, should she win the nomination.

Poor Hillary. Who’da-thunk?

I see I was too late with the warning and she disowned you already.  Hey…just trying to give you a heads up…

OBAMA LIES IN PENNSYLVANIA AD
From NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan
GREENBURG, Pa.—The Clinton campaign today accused the Obama campaign of “false advertising,” claiming that a recent ad Obama released in Pennsylvania was disngenous because Obama has been the recipient of more than $200,000 from the oil and gas industry.
In the ad, Obama says, “I’m Barack Obama, and I don’t take money from oil companies or lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change any more.”
Obama has taken $213,884 from the oil and gas industry as of Feb. 29th, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Sen. Hillary Clinton has taken $306,813 in that same period.
Two of Obama’s campaign bundlers are also CEOs for oil and gas companies, per a list released on his campaign Web site.
Robert Cavnar, listed as a bundler who has raised between $50,000 to $100,000 for the campaign, is the chairman and CEO of Mission Resources Corp., a Houston-based firm. George Kaiser, also listed in the same $50,000 to $100,000 category, is the CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Company.
“It’s unfortunate that Senator Obama is using false advertising to explain why he can be trusted to do something about energy prices,” Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said.  “Senator Obama says he doesn’t take campaign contributions from oil companies but the reality is that Exxon, Shell, and others are among his donors.”
http://tinyurl.com/2on6dr

I think you may want to settle down a little and reply when you are in a more rational state.  By the way, what’s a gramma?

Like I said hinnis…., NO ONE cares what YOU, the almighty proclamator of what is racist and what is not, cares what YOU think…..try your gramma, really it’s your best option.  I mean…hey…she MAY still like you….

Outraged:  My, do you kiss your mother with that mouth.  Am I to take your response as an affirmation that you do prefer racism?

Listen hinnis, no one gives a rat’s ass if you think Obama’s preacher is racist.  NO ONE!  And no matter how many times you spew and spew and spew and spew and spew this crap, we STILL don’t give a shit!.  Do you need to get hit in the head with a baseball bat or WHAT…!!?  Give it up already, try your Gramma or something…BUT WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOUR THINK OF OBAMA’S PREACHER!

Yes I speak for everyone except of course, your alter-egos bert, sixpack and jimmywhateverthefuck.

Yes, Obama gives lofty speeches about hope and unity. And, Obama can read a teleprompter better than anyone since Ronald Reagan, but his 20 year close relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser,” speaks volumes about his character and judgment. Would you Obama supporters attend a racist church for 20 years and consider its racist minister your “mentor and spiritual adviser?” I know I wouldn’t. If I stepped into a church, the first time the pastor made a derogatory statement about “black people” I would be out of there, never to return. But then again, I’m not a racist.

I’ll be a confirmation ‘witness’ here for you Maani.

I’m willing to testify, (under oath if need be) that you CERTAINLY DID ‘bring up’ or otherwise attempt to introduce this bullshit into the ‘discussion’. Actually, I needn’t even do the ‘oath’ thing, because your earlier attempts would be located in the comment archieves.

Still, I just wanted to acknowledge that you aren’t lying (THIS TIME) about the fact that you had already ‘brought this up’ and the fact that it didn’t make a ‘dent’ in the discussion. (just like it won’t make a ‘dent’ coming from hinnis either).

And, I’ve explained the reasons over and over again.

Many (if not MOST) of the readers here have excellent ‘intellectual filters’. In other words, we see the shit for exactly what it is…negative propaganda. I gave it a name (borrowed from another columnist) long ago. These missives are IED’s, as in Insinuations/Exaggerations/Distortions.

So, while the tactic of the brainwasher is to just keep repeating this stuff (IED’s) over and over, it has little effect on anyone who already recognizes them as exactly that.

Seems like you all would have figured that out by now.

Remind me when there’s more time, to tell you the “Shake It Off, and Take a Step Up” story about the donkey being buried in the well.

It’s really a good one for understanding how these IED tactics can backfire.

Patrick Henry…I’m too FLATTERED!!

Really, I am. But, I have to admit, she’s not me.

Maybe 30 years ago? Yeah, that might be fair enough. But nope, I can’t claim the ‘persona’ now.

I did thoroughly enjoy the video however, (even the part with Bill C playing the sax).

So, thanks for sharing. (Maybe I could claim Obama’s girl as a daughter? - just a thought)

Louise,

As you can see from the trash posted in reply to your questions, there are no answers.

It’s highly unlikely that any of these ‘persons’? do anything close to attending church, or showering, or even bothering with the standard receptacles for all of their ‘waste’, like toilets and the other methods of removing and disposing of such. (showers, soap, water, etc)

One can imagine that they simply exist in a literal litter box, with the keyboard in the middle.

Now of course even animals refuse to eat or sleep in their own waste. Cat’s don’t relax, sleep, or bathe themselves from the ‘comfort’ of the litter boxes. And my dogs are quite diligent about removing themselves from their immediate environments to do their urination and defecation, an then they are very careful to conscientiously ‘bury’ or otherwise COVER IT UP. (at least that seems to be what they think they’re doing).

So, I said all of that to say, that most living beings, (humans included) DO NOT eat, sleep, work, play, in the same place where they shit!

But, these folks (and we know who they are without mention) apparently do…EXACTLY that!

And, I could add that they all have the same afflictions: diarrhea of the mouth, (or keyboard) and constipation of the brain! Sort of like the ‘irritable bowel syndrome” of the psyche.

Now I remember Crack-pot

What is that C word that I think of when-ever you post, ends with a t.

How lame, calling me a Hillary “Troll.”  Usually, Obama fans use the race card when they have no argument, but I guess I should add another tactic in the “lame response” category, and that is yours:  attacking the commenter personally with name-calling, etc.  If you disagree about the issues, why don’t you make a cogent argument.  Otherwise, you just look silly.

Duck and cover everybody; a race card has been thrown. Yes, Louise, even racists go to church; look at Rev. Wright.  I imagine he is in church as we speak.

Well lets see ... it’s Sunday.

You religious, [possibly racist] bigots have been repeating yourselves on this thread for almost six days now.

Of course one would expect religious, even racist bigots determined to save us all, [whether we want to be saved, or not] would be heading for Church on Sunday. But apparently not.

That doesn’t surprise me though. Hypocrites, racists and bigots, particularly the religious type rarely do as they say.

But I am curious about a couple of things.
Do you stop long enough to shower?
Do you ever go potty?

Or do you just have one of those porta-potty’s parked permanently in front of your keyboard?

OBAMA BUYING THE DELEGATES:
These are the latest figures from an article in the Seattle Times:
Since 2005, Obama’s PAC has donated $710,900 to superdelegates, more than three times as much as Clinton’s PAC. Her PAC distributed $236,100 to superdelegates during the same time.
The study found that the presidential candidate who gave more money to the superdelegates received their endorsements 82 percent of the time. That’s based on a review of elected officials who are serving as superdelegates and who had endorsed a candidate as of Feb. 25.

or join in mmmm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5155139368 606673545&q=hillary+wasnt+lying&total=31&start= 0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I’m on the next plane to John Wayne Airport.

•  Maani/Hinnis/Cyrena You have convinced me… Neither of these people deserves the position for which “We the People” advertised. 

You may have a point here CY. But, keep in mind that I have my own criticisms of Barack Obama. Specifically, in reference to ending the US Occupation of Iraq.

So, I’d like to see him come up with a more definite set of plans. I’m always realistic and pragmatic enough to know that there is a major limit on what he can actually accomplish (or even promise) until he is actually in office…SPECIFICALLY in terms of Iraq and foreign policy, the Pentagon, etc. And yes, that is simply pragmatic wisdom over idealism. What I would like, (or what we ALL would like) relative to what can actually be accomplished, and how and when. For that, I come as close to whatever ‘faith’ might be. A measure of trust I suppose.

As for the money, I’ve long since gotten over that as well. Yep, it’s another one of those, ‘it would have been nice’ if we could leave money out of it all together, eh? Even your idea of a national election day sounds great. Forget all of this primary stuff, and everybody just vote on the same day, to narrow the pool down to the final contestants. It ain’t gonna happen.

I actually prefer what I think I understand the system to be in Australia. They vote for their top ‘X’ number of choices, and the offices are assigned in order of who gets the relative number of votes. The most votes – Prime Minister/President, and then the next, and on down the line. That should work well enough for at least the Pres/VP/Sec of State. The others should really be appointed based on their field of expertise.

But, that ain’t gonna happen either.

So, I’m just back to what I’ve said from the beginning, and it’s the same as expressed by many others as well. Barack Obama is the first politician to come along in over 40 years, that has been able to bring more Americans, (rather than just that sliver of the monied elite) back into the process, and allow for the possibility that MORE of us will have a hand in our own survival.

Cynics are of course going to express their own disbelief in any possible chance of that, but there’s little to be done about individual cynics. That’s life. Some…like you, have a legitimate basis for your cynicism, and I understand it. That is not the (by even a stretch of the imagination) the same as those few who are devoted to smear and negative IED’s for the sole purpose of destroying a particular candidate. And that is certainly hinnis, who has yet to even show support for ANY.

Meantime, based on what we have to choose from, I see a drastic improvement in the Obama candidacy, to what we’ve been subjected to over the past decade or better. We had a chance with Al Gore, and we blew that.

So, I’m putting a measure of trust in what I’ve seen Obama accomplish so far. Nope, it won’t be perfect. There is rottenness at the core of the US foundation that has yet to be addressed in terms of repair. (Hasn’t even been acknowledged, so obviously…no repair in the works).

Anyway, Obama isn’t promising the moon, or the stars, or a Lexus in every garage. But, he HAS at least frankly acknowledged what we NEED, and how we might ALL go about accomplishing that.

And, at the risk of repeating myself, Barack Obama wouldn’t even be running for the office if 1) there were other candidates that could or would do this, and 2) if the changes in ‘business as usual’ weren’t so urgently necessary…to save ALL of our asses.

The story has also hit other media outlets, however, it has been watered down a bit.  For example, one article I read failed to mention the $10 million line of credit taken out on the home.  I still would like to know how they got a $10 million line of credit on a property worth approximately $2,000,000, and what all that “credit” will be used for.  I wonder if it’s a big fat piggy bank for Rev. Wright, paid for by his much less fortunate congregants.

Maani:  You bring up a good point.  It doesn’t take too long to discover just how deceptive and ruthless Obama is; just a few hours looking through articles on his career and background.  The fact that so many Obama supporters do not care enough to do this, and moreover, will not countenance any criticism of him, does not bode well for this country. People like Obama are even more disgusting to me than the usual crooked politician, because of the HUGE disparity between who he claims to be, and who he actually is.  But, after all, that has been the basis for his whole candidacy, the illusion that he represents “change” and “unity.”  This reminds me a lot of Bush; there are Bush supporters who will follow his lead no matter how much evidence is presented regarding his poor choices and bad leadership.  I used to think that the Democratic party was better than that; I’m sorry to say, I was wrong.

hinnis:

I brought this up some time ago, but, alas, it made nary a dent in the overall discussion since, as those of us not supporting Lord King God Bufu Barack have seen, NOTHING gets through to his supporters.

It is, however, a good indication of just how phony his entire persona of “integrity,” “principle” and “character” is.

Peace.

Patrick Henry:  I consider “my own kind” to be people of good will from any race, color or creed.  I guess that’s why you and I disagree.

Good luck to the two of you.

OBAMA WAS A DIRTY POLITICIAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING:  From the Chicago Sun-Times—A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.  One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama’s petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.  “Why say you’re for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?” Askia said. “He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?”  In a recent interview, Obama granted that “there’s a legitimate argument to be made that you shouldn’t create barriers to people getting on the ballot.”  But the unsparing legal tactics were justified, he said, by obvious flaws in his opponents’ signature sheets. “To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up,” Obama recalled.  Asked whether the district’s primary voters were well-served by having only one candidate, Obama smiled and said: “I think they ended up with a very good state senator.”  Alice Palmer, a friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews.  But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat.  Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer’s hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw.  “I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant,” Obama said. “It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently.”  Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer’s elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama’s electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed.  “He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?” said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his “guru of petitions.”  In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama’s Democratic rivals at the candidate’s behest.  All other candidates were disposed of by Obama’s challenges.  He then went on to win the election.
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

but WHAT IF. . .
her Rev. had gotten oral sex
from a 21-year old parishioner
would she have stood by her Rev.?

Gee, I’m not voting for Rev. Wright.

I’ve read the many posts you’ve written and while very passionate in your propaganda I chosen Obama girl’s viewpoint over yours. 

She makes more sense.

WHAT REV. WRIGHT REALLY BELIEVES
News Type: Opinion — Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:26 PM EDT
us-news, election, obama, clinton, race, wright
dugan49
When Jeremiah Wright got into a spitting contest with right wing TV host Sean Hannity last year, he at one point refused to answer Hannity’s badgering questions and kept asking Hannity “Have you read James Cone, what do you know about black theology? Have you read Cone? Have you read Cone?Have you read Cone?”
James Cone is one of he founders, some say the founder, of Black Liberation Theology. Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s ministry, his beliefs about America, and about life itself are formed by his attraction to and acceptance of the writings of James Cone.
Let’s look at some quotes from James Cone.
____________________
“The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people.”
“All white men are responsible for white oppression. ”
“Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man ‘the devil.’”
“Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement.”
“Black suffering is getting worse, not better. . . . White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it.” (2004)
” Jesus Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.”
“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.”
“The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”
“What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. “

First, any parish who could afford to give the good reverend the money to build a nice house isn’t your run of the mill.

Racism, ethnic favoritism and tribalism are part of the human condition, we generally prefer to be among our own kind.

If you have ever been in battle or a member of an elite organization you would know how experiences can fuse people together into a stronger bond over race, religion or ethnicity.

The DLC or RNC doesn’t qualify even though there are daily battles amongst so called elites, they now have the same goals as the RNC, tax and spend, budget shortfalls, more government ensures a continuing voting bloc.

I still favor Ron Paul for president and the media would have you believe he is out of it. If his name, Gravels or Kucinich’s name is on the general ballot any of them has my vote.

Cyrena:

To paraphrase Shakespeare, methinks thou dost protest too much.

First, I cannot speak for hinnis, but I have never bought the Obama-as-Muslim argument, and have said so.  Indeed, despite my CRITICISM of Obama, there are MANY things that have arisen about him that I have not and do not “buy” any more than you and other here do.

Second, your concept of “brainwashing” is so absurd in the current context as to be laughable.  One could no more “brainwash” someone (in the true sense of the word) solely via the equivalent of words on a printed page than one could boil water by breathing hard on the pot.  Your hyperbolic screed in this regard only betrays your own ignorance.

Third, there is a huge difference between “criticism” and bringing FACTS to light on the one hand, and “undermining,” “libeling” and “swift-boating” on the other.  For example, the lies that bert listed on another thread are provable and supportable by clear and convincing evidence. If it is not “clear and convincing to you,” it is because you remain fact-challenged or fact-denying. But LISTING those lies is not “libel” or “swiftboating,” but bringing truth to light.  And in my experience, speaking the truth is NEVER libelous or swiftboating.

Fourth, re OJ, it might shock you to know that I am one of those who do NOT believe he was guilty. Yup. This white 50-something man followed the entire story from day 1 (i.e., from the day it happened; not JUST the trial) and does not believe he is guilty.  And I base this on the FACTS of the case. Indeed, I could take all of those facts - EXACTLY as we know them - and create an equally plausible scenario in which OJ did NOT kill Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown (though I believe he knows who did). In fact, during a dinner I attended with Kato Kaelin some years later, I became more convinced than ever that OJ was innocent; NOT by anything Mr. Kaelin SAID, but rather by what he did NOT say, and HOW he said what he DID say (i.e., tone of voice, body language, etc.).

Fifth, you say “most people” do not believe the official story of 9/11.  If that were only so!  “Most,” by definition, means “more than 50%.” Yet the number is not nearly that high (yet) according to ANY of the dozens of polls that have been taken.  The highest number I have seen (and as an active 9-11 truther for over four years, I actually track these things) is about 33% who “question” the official story and believe that we have “not been told everything.”  The highest number is (not coincidentally) in NYC, where a full 49% believe the official story is a lie, and where an even greater number believe we should have a new investigation.  (I am on the committee to get a ballot initiative on the November ballot that would allow NYC voters to do just that.)

Ultimately, you are wrong about me, and probably (at least mostly) about hinnis.  You have a habit of engaging in ad hominem attacks on people rather than actually rebutting them.  This is neither good debate technique, nor is it helpful TO ANYONE - even those who may side with you.

I have said this before: you REALLY need to calm down, govern your passions, stop with the name-calling, accusations and ad hominem attacks, and engage in debate by either (i) presenting facts and theories, or (ii) rebutting others’ facts and theories with facts and theories of your own - but WITHOUT the unnecessary and unhelpful negativity you bring to these boards.

Peace.

His name was Steele, not Webb
Democratic Dirty Tricks Target Black Politician
by George Prince Sunday, Sep. 25, 2005 at 6:44 AM

Democratic dirty tricks adn law breaking have targeted a prominent black politician in Maryland. In a blatant attempt to keep an Afrcan American of prominence and intellect from challenging the Democrats opening seat in the Senate, Democratic operatives have illegally obtained the credit report of Michael Steele. There is no proper purpose for such conduct other than to keep an African American off of the ballot in the upcoming Senate election in favor of the Democratic Party’s annointed candidate.
We don’t yet know who the candidates will be in Maryland’s Senate race next year. But we may already have had the first crime committed in the race to replace retiring Democrat Sen. Paul Sarbanes. The FBI is investigating how two operatives at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee obtained a copy of Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele’s credit report. If any laws were broken, charges will soon follow. The dirt is clearly piling up for this campaign.

Michael Steele is a prominent Marland lawyer and African American. he is currently the Lt. Govenor of Maryland. He is intelligent, well spoken and has long been an advocate of racial equality and opportunity. As Lt. Governor, Michael Steele plays a significant role in preserving and promoting Maryland’s five Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU): Coppin State College, Morgan State University, University of Maryland Eastern Shore, Bowie State University and Sojourner-Douglass College. He has advocated for Maryland’s Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU’s) to receive unprecedented funding in Maryland’s fiscal year 2005 budget. Maryland’s HBCU’s are slated to receive an ADDITIONAL $68 million, thanks to Micheal’s Steele’s efforts.

Yesterday the Washington Post named two Democratic staffers who are the likely culprits: Katie Barge and Lauren Weiner. Both have since resigned and the two are reportedly cooperating with the FBI investigation. Ms. Barge was the research director for the campaign committee and Ms. Weiner was working on “opposition research” on Mr. Steele. Mr. Steele’s credit report was likely obtained using his Social Security number, which was itself obtained from court documents. A Democratic spokesman said a supervisor quickly secured the credit report and ensured it was not disseminated.

We’ll see if that’s true in the coming months. At least the criminal investigation may take away the one area where Democrats have long planned to “find” mud to sling at Mr. Steele. In any case, should he formally announce for Mr. Sarbanes’ seat (as expected), raising money won’t be a problem. Even with his credit report floating around in political circles, Mr. Steele remains one of the best candidates for the Senate seat next year.

Please write to the Democratic party and tell them that you are outraged at such conduct. This behavior is demeaning to all Democrats and Progressives.

Don’t take this as an insult.
Your final paragraph; PUBLIC OPINION, not yours only

You are acting brainwashed, Every politician as far back as I can remember was run over the coals by the press, the other party, and yes their own people(Webb from MD). It is how it is done. Should we not question anything about Obama, just because he is black? Just let him move into the White House. If that is the case , Hillary’s past record as First whatever she was shouldn’t matter, Whitewater is moot, Monica is a non issue, you have to ask questions and make accusations this is how the game has been played. I think it was Johnson who told his press secretary, to let it leak out that his political opponent was having sex with farm animals, The press secretary said, we cant say that, its a lie. Johnson said I know that ,but he has to prove its a lie, not us. It takes his mind off his game. Before a President can move in he should have his closet cleaned out, even Obama. If it means we have to look at all of his past associates then so be it. He chose to run for office, no one anointed him. So his relationship with Rev. Wright is very important to many, maybe not to you but to many. It is not racist to question what he has been doing for the last 20 years, it’s important to know so we wont have to worry if he is elected. and the way the pols show it, just as many whites as blacks have voted for Obama, so by your logic you not voting for Hillary is sexist, neither one has proven anything, except one can talk smooth. So in conclusion, you use terms like Brain-washing, you might want to look at your reflection.

are trying to brainwash everyone here into thinking that Obama is the choice, they are trying to convince everyone here that he isn’t. that is what this is about. Obama is doing to Clinton /what Clinton is doing to Obama. When the chosen one is selected that person will do it to McCain, and I hope McCain will do it to that person. Right now Obama is slipping, and that is a fact. A couple of months ago Hillary started to slip, it,s like Al Gore and global warming . You riding your bicycle to work every day wont matter as long as I ride my H2 to work every day.

Your quote:  “it was Outraged that made the false charge about racism…“In America, white people have NEVER been oppressed simply because of the color of their skin.”

You’re confused, my quote was NOT false.  In America “white people” have NEVER been OPPRESSED simply because of the color of their skin IS ACCURATE.  You are confusing racism with indentured servitude.  The two are NOT the same thing.

Merriam Websters Dict:
RACISM:  1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

SERVITUDE:  1 : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one’s course of action or way of life
2 : a right by which something (as a piece of land) owned by one person is subject to a specified use or enjoyment by another

While racism has a long history of EMPLOYING servitude, servitude is NOT RACISM.  Indentured servants were there because they were POOR.  Racism is the acknowledgement of the BELIEF of “an inherent superiority” of one race over another.

Part 1 of 4
To Maani AND/OR Hinnis.

I am acknowledging the content of both your posts, in your claims that you are not the same ‘persona’ posting under various ‘handles’. That may or may not be true, but it’s also of secondary (or less) importance to the larger concept. What IS worth noting, (and I’m sure few have missed it), is that you are essentially IDEOLOGICAL TWINS. (maybe fraternal as opposed to identical).

In short, your ideological goals/motivations/etc are the same, as evidenced by your own postings on this public forum. Your tactics, including similar and sometimes identical language, are the same. You’ve both stated as much. At the end of the day, and based on your OWN PURPOSES, THAT is the point.

So, I’m going to spell it out for you again, with some ‘clues’ as to how you so immediately identify yourselves, because your arrogance prevents you from recognizing how easily you are ‘spotted’. Maani has actually been far more ‘adroit’  in the overall endeavors, and it could be because he actually DOES support HRC, for whatever the reasons, even though he’s long since resorted to the same ‘tactics’ that you have littered the site with, from the moment you came ‘on board’. YOU haven’t even pretended that much. (to support Hillary Clinton for this election). Rather, you started out with the demonizing of Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama by association/extension, from your very first post.

One thing that you’ve ignored in your arrogance, which is your failure to acknowledge that there are thinking people sharing the planet with you, is that what you attempt to accomplish here, is NOT NEW!  Con artists, propagandists, magicians, have been around since the beginning of time. We find them in ALL forms. They are politicians, preachers, teachers, lawyers, entertainers, and of course I could go on. This conning often goes by other names, such as BRAINWASHING!  Here is a dictionary definition:

•  1. IMPOSE BELIEFS ON SOMBODY: “to impose a set of usually political or religious beliefs on somebody by the use of various coercive methods of indoctrination, including destruction of the victim’s prior beliefs.”

•  2. CONDITION SOMEBODY TO BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY: “to induce somebody to believe or do something, e.g. to buy a new product, especially by means of constant repetition or advertising.”

You and others on this forum are for the most part, right in line with #1. While your ‘tactics’ may vary slightly, the most obvious has been the use of NEGATIVE propaganda, and the deliberate twisting of reality, to create a negative impression of Barack Obama.

Again, I would remind you that this has been in use since the beginning of time.
This “swift-boating” was employed for use on John Kerry during the 2004 election, and it is probably what COST him the election. Most adults in this day and age have witnessed this, (or been victimized by it ourselves) at some point in time. Again, it is NOT NEW.

This project to undermine/slander Obama was actually begun long ago…and long before either of you, (or these other ideologues) appeared on the scene. It is at the least, a year-long effort.  Specifically, there was an email campaign,  circulated by the same ‘types’ as you represent, claiming among other things that Obama was a Muslim, had attended a Madressa, wasn’t ‘really’ a Christian, and had only ‘recently’ joined a Christian church. All lies of course, but still enough to appeal to, and/or possibly convince/indoctrinate/brainwash/etc, those more easily fooled than others.

Part 2 of 4

Speaking of which; The REASONS why this brainwashing can be, and for centuries HAS been so effective, are as complex as the human and social psychology. That means that these ‘tactics’ will in fact ‘work’ on some people. On the other hand, they will NOT work on others. Consequently, one takes a chance at employing such deceptive and coercive measures. How do I know this? Well, NOT because I’m ‘special’ or ‘brilliant’, or have a ‘6th sense’ or eyes in the back of my head. There are MILLIONS us who do not fall so easily to these tactics. It doesn’t mean that we ourselves can’t sometimes ‘be fooled’ or induced to certain thinking or behaviors, even when it goes against our own best interests. Witness the election of Dick Bush –BOTH TIMES-! And no, I’m not one of ‘that group’ since I was well aware of the nightmare they had in store for us. HOWEVER, even I could never have imagined the extent of it.

But, I digress. My point is that not all people will accept the tricks at face value. There are plenty of average folks walking around, who exercise their individual intellects, to look below the surface of any issue, to find out what it REALLY is! You’ve come up against more than a few, right here on this forum. Outraged wasn’t willing to accept your interpretation of various ‘incidents’ or comments about Obama, despite all the videos and the like. Maani has run into similar troubles himself. That is to say that there are those who will NOT accept the ‘as advertised’ goods, without checking the sources of them, or thoroughly analyzing what is really being projected. The current Administration’s, created story to ‘sell us’ their version of 9/11 is another example. Most Americans don’t believe it any longer, IF they ever did.

That is NOT to suggest that there are NOT people who are and will remain unconvinced of the truth of reality, because they too, are either ideologically or psychologically compromised. This is a favorite accusation from Maani. He loves to claim that “Obamamanics” support him only out of some visceral or otherwise irrational belief structure, and that they therefore ‘rationalize’ away, any possible criticisms of him. For the most part, that too is a lie, and yet another coercive ‘tactic’ to intimidate people into accepting a belief that they don’t hold. I would agree however, that there are occasions when this ‘phenomena’ does exist.

An example that should be very familiar to most of us is the trial of OJ Simpson just over a