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Obama Responds to Wright Controversy

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Posted on Mar 16, 2008
Obama

It was only a matter of time before Barack Obama would have to weigh in on the controversy surrounding the sermons of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whose rhetorical flair sometimes verged on the incendiary.

While it is in the interests of Obama’s political survival to “vehemently disagree” with and “strongly condemn” the words of a man who clearly influenced and inspired him, it is at least a little sad that some of what Wright had to say was ever considered controversial in the first place.

Take, for instance, Wright’s assertion that the heinous attacks of 9/11 were an example of America’s chickens coming home to roost. Blowback, in other words. It’s a concept familiar to many commentators, columnists, analysts and others who’ve made the same argument, although perhaps more delicately, in the years since 2001. What else does it mean when the Democratic candidates—both of them—say we are fanning the flames of terrorism in Iraq?

Still, it simply does not do to have a prominent supporter use the phrase “God damn America.” And though we might agree with Clinton supporter James Carville that the whole phenomenon of surrogate sacking has gotten a bit out of hand, the politics at work here isn’t all that surprising.


Obama responds to the controversy:

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Rev. Wright’s controversial comments:


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By bert, March 23, 2008 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

“...only Hillary’s name appeared on the ballot….”

However, an oft over looked fact is that originally Obama was on the ballot, too. He withdrew his name ONLY AFTER polls had him losing to Hillary 60 to 40.

His withdrawal was actually a CALCULATED cynical political move to prevent him from a humiliating loss in MI.

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By Ted Swart, March 23, 2008 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Knowitall:
It is good to see you moderating your more intemperate language and writing well thought out sensible comments.
I agree with you totally that Ralph Nader is the only candidate that “speaks the truth” and recognizes that the system has been is so totally broken that nothing will or can come right until it is changed.  Obama, on the other hand, is such a smart guy that he has been playing the system to maximuum advantage.  But when he comes to power, as seems to be likely, it is hard to see how he will be able to stop using the system.

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By Leefeller, March 22, 2008 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

Let’s face it; Bush and Cheney have given the Executive branch more power than they have ever had. If we elect a new president they will walk into that office with that power.
I would feel more comfortable with someone who has a strong support of the people instead of special interests.  Not sure, but that would have included someone like Kucinich.

It remains to be seen what happens now.

From now on I plan on using the high road, though it may be quite hard.

Our Checks and balance system is broken.

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By bert, March 22, 2008 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

It can only happen on TruthDig, bert, uhh…....

You are so right. Well, on second thought it also happens on Daily Kos, Salon, and Hyff Po with regularity too. I don’t understand why it has to be so.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 22, 2008 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

It can only happen on TruthDig, bert, uhh…....

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By cyrena, March 22, 2008 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

Bert, this is really sad…

Here’s what Leefeller wrote:

“Bush spin is equal to the Clinton spin we are wining the war against terror.”

There’s no statement of ‘fact’ there. It’s an analogy or parallel. The Clinton campaigne spins and spins, and tells folks whatever they think they want to hear.

Dick Cheney’s Bush mob does the same. They’ve been lying and spinning for years now, and the Clinton’s are doing the same.

Problem with the Clintonistas is that they’ve taken it beyond the pale, to the swift-boating Rovarian tactics that could damn the entire thing.

It’s the typical mentality behavior of people like them, who would as soon kill the baby as share custody.

It’s like the person who gets foreclosed out of their home, and decides to burn the thing just to keep the bank from getting it back.

It’s like the person that says, if I can’t have it, NOBODY is gonna have it.

Gee…sounds like Bush.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 22, 2008 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You Hill-the-business-shill trolls just don’t get it!

The Clinton’s are of the Rove school of political science,  so they have no shame in “deleting” facts.

The estimate is that 1 million Floridians did not vote becaues they were informed the votes wouldn’t count.  ONLY Hillary’s scum-squad was getting out the vote for her.  My friends in Florida tell me the calls went something like this… “Don’t forget to vote today, because you know it is important to show support for Hillary even if the votes don’t count.

Her campaign officials (when contacted concerning this) said (adamantly) that these calls had no connection to any “authorized” Clinton effort!


Hummm

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By Maani, March 22, 2008 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

Leefeller:

I heard one pundit make an interesting, and I believe, correct statement.  He said that, although he does not support re-votes in FL and MI, and the popular vote in MI would have to be discounted since only Hillary’s name appeared on the ballot, that the Florida popular vote should be included when calculating the popular vote total thus far, since all the candidates’ names actually appeared on the ballot, and thus the vote represents a relatively accurate assessment of how Hillary WOULD have done had the delegates themselves been apportioned.

In this regard, if we add the 300,000 votes that Hillary got in FL to her totals from other primaries - and even including giving Obama HIS vote total from FL - the two of them would be less than 100,000 votes apart vis-a-vis the total popular vote thus far.

In this regard, the fact that Hillary won the popular vote in almost all of the “big” states becomes a more legitimate issue.

Peace.

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By Leefeller, March 22, 2008 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

Bert,
Facts are Hillary touts the spin; she has won all the big states, the states that really count, the ones that are important.  When in fact she is behind in votes, delegates and lost Texas too.  Is not Texas a big state that counts?

After Bush gave his great spin speech on how well the war has been going, how effective the surge was and how the war was worth it and we must stay the course. I am merely pointing out the similarities Hillary and Bush have in the Spin misters department.  Bush and Hillary have much more in common than even I had believed; guess I am simply stating why I feel Hillary is none other than Bush Lite.

I am fact challenged because of being fact depraved,  because the spin from those like Hillary and Bush, provide factless spin. Twisting the truth into untruths in order to support Hillary and Bush’s own illusion’s of reality, their own little spin worlds. 

When Hillary becomes president, we can expect more spin and nothing but the spin.  Hence Status Quo.

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By bert, March 22, 2008 at 1:30 am Link to this comment

Re:    “.....Clinton spin we are wining the war against terror. It was worth it, the end of the war is just around the corner. “

A little fact challenged here, are we not? It is Bush and Co. saying these things, not Clinton.

You know, when you get basic simple FACTS like this wrong you make your whole argument look inaccurate and stupid.

But then your candidate is often fact challenged to, so I know why you tend to be that way.

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By Leefeller, March 21, 2008 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

Hillary clowns, how about grabbing your asses and admit that Hillary has lost the numbers, delegates and states and super delegates of course her spin states otherwise.  Spin. Spin how she has won all the big important states, the big states the states that really count.  Bush spin is equal to the Clinton spin we are wining the war against terror. It was worth it, the end of the war is just around the corner.  Yes I believe in the twisting of numbers to fit your spin, increases my chances of winning the Lottery.  Hillary won Texas, oh a little spin.

Thanks Hillary folks, you may fool some of the fools some of the time, but you can not fool all of the fools all of the time,  the Clintons know what they are doing, when it comes to promoting themselves, for they are the most selfish of the selfish, ultimate self serving war mongers.  Yes support the spin. 

Wright in the forefront, spin the get the redneck vote for Hillary, or McCain.  Clinton supporters seem to have this zombie approach to winning, no matter what.  Oh, yes spin for spin’s sake

Sorry folks, it is Hillary’s turn in the barrel.

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By bert, March 21, 2008 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

Are you dizzy yet from all your spinning? Well never fear, my dear, the Bert Truth Squad is here to set the record straight.

Yesterday the Obama campaign, obviously in panic mode as they see their poll nunbers drop, gave the New York Times a photo that Jeremiah Wright had to have given them. It shows Wright with President Clinton. 

The only person besides Wright with a copy of this photo is the Clinton Library and I am certain the Clinton Library did not send this picture to the press on short notice.

Wright also gave the Obama campaign a copy of the thank you note he received from President Clinton, which they dutifully passed on to the Times.

Wright was at the 1998 Prayer breakfast along with SEVERAL HUNDRED other religious leaders, including rabbis, pastors, priests, and imams. President Clinton posed with SEVERAL HUNDRED , who received similar photos.

President Clinton has never considered Jeremiah Wright someone whom he should confide in, nor was he a sounding board. He also has never considered Jeremiah an uncle or any relative for that matter.

Why did Obama claim last week that they had cut all ties with Wright (in fact, isn’t he on a cruise some where?)  but this week are still getting and receiving Wright’s help by providing them with this picture?

This is shameless of Obama’s campaaign.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21, 2008 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for the AA.  I just couldn’t figure it out.  As for Nader, I can accept his truth without questioning his motives.

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By bert, March 21, 2008 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

“But what is “AA’s”?”

Is this a legitinate question, or are you, like some others on this site, just a way to hassle? If legit, ‘AA’ is shorthand for African American. I am basically a lazy person and like shorthand, that’s all. Sorry for any confusion.

“Who knows for sure what motivates Ralph Nader?  But, one thing I know I know is that he speaks the truth.”

Pretty much. But like you the last few years I am not sure what his motivations are.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21, 2008 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Sorry, Bert, my last comment was not headed and didn’t come up under your comment as a reply. 

Starts off “Oh, I agree.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21, 2008 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

Oh, I agree.  But what is “AA’s”?

My relatively long life has taught me that, for me, a working class person, there’s little to no difference between the parties and how they govern. 
I fully expect that things will get worse for me, while they get better for the wealthy.  That’s the way it works in America.  If you’re poor, it’s even worse and if you’re poor and non-white, it’s a disaster. 

Who knows for sure what motivates Ralph Nader?  But, one thing I know I know is that he speaks the truth. 

I predict that, someday, there won’t be republicans or democrats in this country.  And that someday seems to be getting closer.  I don’t pretend to imagine how it will end, I just know it will. 

Bottom line, Bert, since Nader is a non-issue, I don’t care who gets in.  It’ll make no difference in my life.  BTW, it might be a little foolish to expect Hill or Obam to honor their promise to end the war.  Things will vastly change for either of them once the WH door closes behind them.  Then it will be time for the GREAT RATIONALIZATION.

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By bert, March 21, 2008 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

You write:    “Maybe you should read some of Dr. Kings most studied works. Try his “Letter from A Birmingham Jail”…it’s quite accessible.”

Yes, anger was expressed on letters. That is what made letters such a masterful work. But King’s words never sounded like Wright’s. There was never the anti-American sentiment in any of Dr. King’s words.

There is little (I say this becasue I do not know much if anything about Rev. Wright’s work in the community,) if any, similarity.

You disparge Dr. King’s legacy and memory by linking him to Wright.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 21, 2008 at 7:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh Doug… You made me laugh ....again. Don’t you know that “Smearing Hill-the-business-shill is equivalent to denigrating a rat?


You are so funny!!!

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By bert, March 21, 2008 at 7:30 am Link to this comment

You write:    “My ears and mind heard Wright indict our government, not every white person.”

Depends upon what perspective you are looking at. In terms of history and treatment of AA’s, yes.

However, if your perspective is from how will this play with Main St. America and WINNING THE NOV. ELECTION, and getting a majority of votes in that election, well now that is different.

This whole episode, unfortunately, plays right into Republican’s long-standing favorite anti-Democratic theme - patriotism.

Expect LOTS of attack ads on this, and unfortunately attack ads work.

And all the wishin and hopin in the universe will not change that dynamic.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21, 2008 at 6:31 am Link to this comment

I don’t share, I guess, you idea of what is racist.  I heard Wright say GD America because of what he thought were systematic injustices committed by our government against oppressed peoples everywhere, regardless of their color. 

I do not agree that it is racist for him to say that Hillary, because she is not a black man, could not understand the lot of a black man. 

My ears and mind heard Wright indict our government, not every white person. 

I believe it would be very difficult, if not impossible for there to be found in America one person completely without predjudice, suspicion, and some amount of “fear” in their feelings about other people.  It should be the function and the goal of a country like America, which explicitly states on no uncertain terms its egalitarianism, to teach and to help its citizens to learn, accept, and nurture this ideology—because it’s right and good. 

If America does this at all, it’s only, IMO, in token form.

The more I think about, there is a disease of epidemic and probably catastrophic proportions in our country and it’s two-pronged-FEAR and IGNORANCE.

And, in the words of my hero, Forrest Gump, “I guess that’s about all I have to say about that.”

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21, 2008 at 4:31 am Link to this comment

Maani, thanks for the link. Very interesting. 
    I was just having a little fun.  I’m not the student that most of you others seem to be; I listen, think and make up my mind.  As for searching the web for info, I don’t have a lot of time nor do I put much credence in most of what I’ve come across.  Much of it is too politically biased, IMO; it’s difficult for me to sort out the truth.  People tend to believe what they want to believe.
  I really don’t think badly of Obama.  I was highly impressed with his speech.  I agree wholeheartedly with Wright.  I’m not in the least offended by the venom.  The antidote, to my way of thinking, is to elect leaders, both WH and congress who understand and embrace Nader’s ideaology of giving this government back to the people—of all sizes and shapes and colors.  Whatever it was in the minds of our founding fathers was probably pretty good, not perfect, but worth striving for.  The reason we’ve gone 180 from it must be because the power/wealth people in this country believe they alone are entitled to the guarentees of our constitution and the people Wright was talking about are not.  Until they get educated, MLK’s Dream will be only that.  (I’m Caucasian)
    One more thing, I used to say “What are the wealthy worried about?  There’s plenty to go around.”
Now, I’m not so sure. 
    Sorry for running on.

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By cyrena, March 20, 2008 at 11:41 pm Link to this comment

Bert writes:

“This is very true. But so was Martin Luther King. Yet he never spoke like this. His speeches and work made us look inside ourselves and try to reach our higher angels.”

Bert, you OBVIOUSLY haven’t read or otherwise contemplated all of Dr. Kings speechs.

Yes, he was indeed a believer in non-violence, as was Gandhi. If you think (or choose to otherwise ignore) the many invocations of ANGER from either one of them, you simply continue your delusions, or your not so subtle smearing of any and everyone connected to Barack Obama.

Now, I have spent a considerable amount of time and energy studying the theory and practice of non-violent resistance, and those great men who have made it work. They did NOT refrain from expressing anger at the injustices.

Yes, Rev. Wright has also expressed anger in some of his sermons. He has NOT advocated violence, and so your remarks are simply more of your same attempted smear through nuance and innuendo.

It’s really despicable, and I will continue to call you out on it..every time it comes to my attention.

Maybe you should read some of Dr. Kings most studied works. Try his “Letter from A Birmingham Jail”…it’s quite accessible.

Meantime, you’re just about as far from any ‘higher angels’ as one could get. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds…

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 20, 2008 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 20: “Obama is a “Manchurian Candidate” in the form of a Commie…..  He attended a church for 20 years that GD’d the USA, something a real church in America would never do…”

I posted this in another topic but I’m repeating it here because it adds to your comments, Dr. K…...

I didn’t go much on the sermon by Rev. Wright attacking Hillary Clinton for being white. What was worse, he went out of his way to smear her despite Obama having a white mother.

If the Rev. Wright is reading this, I would like to hear his homily about Barack Obama’s white mother or white grandmother, eh! Did she ever have to “miss being picked up by a taxi” because she wasn’t white enough?

It IS true that some of Wrights words WERE racist. Unfortunately, they were not the statements Obama was excusing in his speech. If every white person has to be made guilty, then there is a smear campaign going on…....

That has already been happening for some years with some members of the Jewish community and particularly with respect to the Israeli Zionists supporting AIPAC. Now, we have almost the same kind of movement within the African-American community.

Just like our Truthdig blogger, Mike Mid-City, the Rev. Wright is a bigoted and biased ex-marine who has developed some kind of personality disorder. One wonders then why Obama went along with that for the last 20 years if it didn’t accomodate his own personal agenda?

Jeremiah Wright - Hillary Clinton ain’t never been called… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

The again, we also know that Obama is NOT a genuine Christian anyway, uhh. He refers to Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount as “...a passage that is so radical that it is doubtful whether our own Defense Department would survive its application” !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35sGJrWKcmY&eurl=http://prezvid.com/index.php?tag=religion

You can add that to “I don’t oppose all wars” and “the crucible of the sword” from his so-called anti-war speech of 2002 to make your own conclusions about how duplicitous this person really is….....

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 20, 2008 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

That is the way our karma catches us all…...

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By Maani, March 20, 2008 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

DKIA:

Funny you should mention the Manchurian Candidate thing.  You are not the first to have that thought; I’ve seen it on other blogs.

In this regard, for what its worth, you might find the following of interest.  Note that I take no stand on it, just things sent to me by others.  The second one is quite lengthy, and the title is more provocative than it need be.  It is actually more about Brzezinski, but is no less instructive for that.

http://www.rense.com/general81/emd.htm

http://www.rense.com/general80/obb.htm

Peace.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 20, 2008 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

with all due respect to yopur opinion, Jesus, Ghandi, and to a lesser extent MLK wwere abject failures in what they attempted.

All three were victims of the violence they abhorred, they never could make even their followers understand their message, and They never achieved the goal they sought….even after death… with Jesus even after 2000 years..

An atheist for the last 40 years, I used to have lunch with a friend who attended the Bangor Seminary.
we discussed religion, politics, and Kinky Friedman. Althoug disagreements abounded, and agreements were hard to come by, we agreed on one item which I remember well…

If Jesus returned today, he would not recognize our churches, but he would readily know our jails!

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By PatrickHenry, March 20, 2008 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

This dead horse issue is getting play night and day by the jewish dominated MSM.  Too bad they don’t report on the latest ‘cleansing” performed by Israel.

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m42203&hd;=&size=1&l=e

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 20, 2008 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

Maybe I don’t know what messianic means.

I’ve concluded, after all, that Obama is a “Manchurian Candidate” in the form of a Commie.  I mean, look at it.  He attended a church for 20 years that GD’d the USA, something a real church in America would never do.  Therefore, he’s unpatriotic and he doesn’t wear a lapel flag and he doesn’t put his hand on his heart when people are reciting the wonderful pledge of allegiance.  This is not fuzzy math.  Add it up and the answer is clear as poland spring water:

Obama must be a Commie.

Now, whether one can be a Commie Messiah seems a little far-fetched to me, but I admit I’ve been thrown a few political curves lately.  Things change.

All we have to do is try to figure out who is putting him up to this, how they’re funding it and, especially, just what is their agenda. This has the potential to make the war on terror look like child’s play.  The outcome could be very serious, indeed for those of us who care about and love America.

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By Ted Swart, March 20, 2008 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

Always a pleasure to get well thought out responses from you Maani. 
Ny wifes reaction to Obama’s unsual speech was that she wanted to cheer and she added that she was sick and tired of listening ot “old, white, male talking heads”. 
I might add that someone pointed out that the media don’t really know what to make of his speech since it is so different   from the usual muckraking which they engage in. He sure raised the level of presidential primary discourse to new level of abstraction. 
I remain apprehensive about the prospects of him becoming the president of the US since he is just a little too slick and too messianic in his approach.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 20, 2008 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

My goodness cyrena you write so beautifully. I never have to question your agenda when you write, you open your soul. That’s a precious gift.

Some thoughts on your post in no real order.

1. Don’t forget Obama won Maine too! I’m ashamed to say this is one of THE least racially diverse states in our great union. My high school classmate and later roommate after college was the middle child of the ONLY AA family in our school district. Living with Paul for a few years gave me a tiny insight to the day to day bullshit that comes with having darker than average skin.

2. Obama won in Maine’s caucus because of the perfect storm of organized chaos. Combine a turnout 4-5 times what anyone in my sleepy little village expected with no organization by my state’s dem party officials and it left a vacuum of power that the Obama precinct captain was all too eager to fill. Before I knew what was happening I was separated from the herd because I refused to hold an Obama sign and put an Obama sticker on my shirt. Those special people were put in a group and the Obama captain took over our meeting, limiting the comments of Clinton supporters and locking out discussion after it became clear it was not in support of Obama. Stunning. I felt completely disenfranchised at my own caucus. This stranger I have not seen before or since bullied my weaker neighbors into switching groups until they had a majority then called for the vote. It was a fraud and a sham. In my heart I know that a primary would have yielded a different result. This story was common at the 400+ other sites around the state. If there had been a Clinton captain there to challenge the leadership or a stronger neutral party official, the result would have been different.

3. John Hagee is a whacko. It’s a weak argument to redirect the Wright preaching to a McCain supporter. Here’s the difference in my mind. John McCain received the endorsement of a guy he may or may not agree with. I’ll take him at his word that he doesn’t. He’s not (as far as I know) a member of Hagee’s church. He didn’t tithe to the tune of $20K a year to belong to his church. Now I believe he needs the support of the religious right and is willing to pander a bit to get it. I also believe that the critical political support may have a reason Obama joined Trinity. My brother who lived in the Park Ridge area believes this to be the case. He needed to kiss the Wright ring to be elected. OK I buy that. But when you regularly attend for 20 years and give more than tacit approval to ideas that most Americans in 2008 believe are controversial at best and radically dangerous at worst, there are going to be ramifications. Obama did his best to teach us ignorant white boys a lesson on race. I was moved, in part, because I was able to watch the speech. Most of my fellow Mainers have two regular jobs and cut firewood for beer money ;-> (They don’t give away 30-packs ‘round these parts!).

I have tried to make the point that while I am a Clinton supporter; I think Obama would be a much better president than John McCain. I’d love to see Obama gain more experience before being hired for the last job he’ll ever have. He believes in MLK’s visionary concept of the “fierce urgency of now.” and I applaud that. I am a democrat who believes in the fierce urgency of winning in November. This election is far too important to me than to risk my babies’ futures by supporting anyone that doesn’t give us the best chance to win back the White House. IMHO I believe HRC is that person.

Sorry so long. I write from my heart too!

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By robert puglia, March 20, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

goddamn a bunch of blathering fools, smiley face emoticon, peace

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By bert, March 20, 2008 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

You make a lot of good and valid pionts, Conservative Yankee.

You write:    “Jeremy Wright is from the generation where white’s only bathrooms, and back-of-the-bus seating were common features of USA life. He saw peaceful people killed for their thoughts and words, and he has reason to be angry with a country which during his younger years accepted him only as a second-class citizen, without a vote, or a place at the table.”

This is very true. But so was Martin Luther King. Yet he never spoke like this. His speeches and work made us look inside ourselves and try to reach our higher angels.

I guess I am more moved by the power of the non-violent confrontation of folks like Gahndi and and Martin Luther King.

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By Expat, March 20, 2008 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

^ conundrum and hypocritical.  We don’t like reality and your post pretty much summarizes our predicament.  We won’t be conquered from without; only from within.

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By Leefeller, March 20, 2008 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

Since we never really hear the truth from out government, the blunt truth is even more uncomfortable to accept.  From the newspeak of the Mass Media to the tripe fed us by our so called leaders, the twisted facts, we never really hear the real story.

Obama, provides something we have not seen in our government, integrity and a seemingly degree of caring about the people.  Our government managed by the wealthy for the wealthy is crumbling, from their greed.  The elite are just that because of wealth and not enlightenment. 

Our leaders are selected for us, it is my feeling the Pllutocracy may be getting second thoughts towards their selection of Obama. We cannot have this non Washington insider upstart, running around telling the truth in government.

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By Maani, March 19, 2008 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

Ted:

As the only self-proclaimed minister here (though others may have a right to do likewise), I completely agree with you.  I and some of my colleagues have actively campaigned for atheist candidates for local and state offices, and I would do so for an atheist presidential candidate, should a good one arise in the future.  Indeed, I have always been mortified by believers who do not understand and respect the reasons for the separation of church and state, and for having no religious test for the presidency.  [N.B. I am one of only half a dozen ministers in NYC to have signed the American Atheists petition for the absolute separation of church and state.]  Unfortunately, since the vast majority of voters in the U.S. self-identify as “Christian,” it may be a while before an atheist (or perhaps even gnostic) candidate has a chance of getting elected.

Re “the intrinsically divisive nature of the mutually incompatible religions of this world,” I do entirely agree with this assessment.

First, none of the Abrahamic reilgions is PER SE divisive; they only become divisive if they are USED divisively.  And while this is certainly the case, it need not be in order for those religions to be practiced.

Second, and similarly, none of the Abrahamic religions is PER SE “mutually incompatible” within the contexts of the actual “strictures” that guide them.  That too many adherents either don’t know or understand those strictures, ignore them, or twist them to justify such “incompatibility” is also true - but also NEED NOT be the case in order for them to co-exist.

I am not suggesting that there are not ENORMOUS issues to deal with in these regards, even setting aside the MOST extreme “hijackings” of various religions throughout history, including the current hijacking of Islam by a relatively small minority of extreme fundamentalist clerics.

Throughout history, the adherents of the various religions lived, for the most part, cooperatively. Indeed, Jews, Christians and Muslims co-inhabited large parts of the Middle East with nary a problem for centuries.  Even today, the overwhelming majority of the ~1.1 billion Christians, ~1 billion Muslims and ~13.5 million Jews practice their faiths quietly and privately, and do NOT support, either directly or tacitly, the extremists who have co-opted or otherwise represent the “public voice” of their faiths.

Indeed, what seems to be missing in the current global geopolitik are the “moderate” voices of these faiths, of which there are some and, in some cases, a growing number.  Let us hope that number increases and that a new dialogue ensues.

Peace.

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By Conservative Yankee, March 19, 2008 at 5:53 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The politics of race is becoming ever more ridiculous.  One side says “you don’t understand the latent anger of the black under-class which occasionally manifests it self in the Black churches.

The other side quotes Wright’s “God Damn America” as if it was never said (and almost ignored) by prominent white folks.

Stanley Levison: Maybe one could find a more hypocritical repugnant culture than the one which exists here (In the USA) but it is doubtful.

Jackie Kennedy Onassis: “I hate this evil evil country” (Upon learning of the assassination of Robert Kennedy)

Jerry Falwell: “God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.”

Pat Robinson:”...God Almighty is lifting his protection from us.” essentially damning? 

Jeremy Wright is from the generation where white’s only bathrooms, and back-of-the-bus seating were common features of USA life. He saw peaceful people killed for their thoughts and words, and he has reason to be angry with a country which during his younger years accepted him only as a second-class citizen, without a vote, or a place at the table.

I am NOT a Barak Obama fan. I believe he’s nothing but a junior Hill/Bill with the same corporate free-trade, cheap labor ties…

Jeremy Wright is real we don’t like real in the USA. but real exists… me watching the city of Newark burn from the roof of my Manhattan junior high school was real… That was Jeremy Wright’s world… fading now for the rest of us, but still a big part of this old man’s life.

Conversely these old dusty almost forgotten images of Axe handles, police dogs and fire hoses have NOTHING at all to do with Barak Obama’s life.

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By Leefeller, March 18, 2008 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

First of all the bad judgment that you speak of is assumed, and promoted as such by you, not I.  Sure the right wing will do the same, maybe worse, but the two pronged attacker from Hillary and McCain have been weathered quite well, I would say, only time will tell.

Hillary will get her time in the barrel soon enough.

Obama’s speeach was out of the park and very good, let’s see what happens now. 

Admittedly the blunt truth is impossible for some to take. Our country may not be ready for assuming its share of responsibility on anything, from the war to Katrina.  If we keep the old Washington crowd, status quo, it will be just more of the same.  Obama offers something different, unity and hope, instead of devisivness and hate.

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By cyrena, March 18, 2008 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

You might have a point Joe, about the effect of the “God Damn America”.

I can’t really say how the reaction will be with the average…ex-military, pickup drivin’, etc, etc.

BUT, I DID live in Texas for 17 years, and as a female of color, native to the land, and native to California, it was one hell of a painful experience, exactly because of those rednecks that you mention.

On the OTHER hand, not ALL of it was painful. I DID learn a lot about people, and life, and all of that, and there were even a few rednecks that came of age. smile

I should ALSO say, that the mentality isn’t JUST restricted to rednecks. I received an email video today, of a BLACK preacher, somewhere in the South, who was preaching to his congregation, and dogging out Obama AND his mother, in a way that should make ANYBODY cringe. And, he was also full of praise for Hillary. BUT, his message was very much rejected by those within among the more progressive African-American communities. We call those types, Uncle Toms’ and sometimes worse.

So, what can I say? It’s not just about rednecks, unless we want to think of them in terms of a ‘mentality’ because there ARE the equivalent of them in the African-American and Latino, and Asian communities as well.

And, at the end of the day, I just honestly don’t believe that Obama’s pastor’s comment, is going to make that big of a difference.

So he doesn’t win Florida? It’s one state. He may not win Texas either, and I’ll admit that after my own experience there, I’m surprised that he did as well as he did.

He didn’t win Arkansas though, despite the fact that Arkansas has a considerable black population. (nearly all poor).

But then, let’s have a look at Iowa, Wyoming, Vermont…and I could go on. Those are ALL white states, and they probably have their own fair share of “rednecks” as well.

But at the end of the day, anyone who is going to continue to use the words of Obama’s pastor, to judge OBAMA’S fitness to lead the country, wasn’t gonna vote for him anyway, and that’s a matter of ingrained racism that simply won’t change, regardless. I mean, if it wasn’t what his pastor said, it would be something else, even if they had to make it up, just to justify what is a basic inability to conceive of the world in any other terms than what they know.  And, I would say that we have to accept that, as part of the reality.

In short, some people CAN’T change, and yet the rest of us still have to survive. So, I think it’ll work out. Despite my own Catholic upbringing,  I’m unwilling to give much weight to rhetoric (or really anything) when it is taken out of context. But, I accept the fact that others will, and there’s little we can do to change that. It’s odd though, I’ve heard people say and do a whole lot worse than ‘God (should) damn America”, and with little reaction from the public or the media.

Have you ever listened to John Hagee as he goes on about Jews, Gays, Catholics, and pretty much everybody else? And, he’s been preaching that shit far more frequently, and to a far larger audience than has Rev. Wright. And, not only has John McCain embraced his endorsement, he actually SOLICITED it!! So, anyone who has a huge problem with the words of Rev Wright, and nothing to say about the connection between the radical John Hagee and Senator McCain, simply proves the depth of their own hypocrisy. Again, we can’t necessarily change that, but I do think we can expect those people to be in more and more in the minority, as ignorance is eventually overcome by what eventually leads to tolerance.

So yes, time will tell. I’m holding out hope for the reasonableness of the larger American population though.

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By Ted Swart, March 18, 2008 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

Sure it was a good speech which stood out from the crowd and broke new ground but it failed entirely to address the issue of the intrinsically divisive nature of the mutually incompatible religions of this world. Let’s hope his mother’s atheism will break through to some extent in his attitude to those who—very sensibly—have no religious affiliation.
Those who think that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict has nothing to do with religion are way off the mark. Ditto for the Sunni/Shia divide when it comes to the nascent civil war in Iraq.

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By Maani, March 18, 2008 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

Bert:

Don’t bother.  You can claim to be a Democrat ‘til you’re blue in the face.  But if your words and positions are not EXACTLY in line with those here who have defined “Democrat” (and “liberal” and “progressive”) in their own way, they will not believe you.  I still continue to get accused of being on Hillary’s payroll, though that is not the case, and I have stated so numerous times.  I am not even actively campaigning for her (in the sense of tabling, canvassing, or other “physical” activities).

Just chalk it up to the inability or unwillingness of some people here to engage in a legitimate form of discussion and debate without resorting to unnecessary and uncalled-for name-calling, accusation, denigration and/or dismissiveness.

Peace.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 18, 2008 at 8:48 am Link to this comment

My first reaction, without listening to the pundits spin is that it was a brilliant speech. Obama just put this subject away in my mind. Let’s move on to the important issues of the campaign. That’s what he needed to do. I predicted correctly his message but am left with the same questions. I commend Obama for pulling his pastor closer and at the same time distancing himself, even rising above the anti-white rhetoric of an old preacher, I have to wonder if the speech will resonate quite as loudly among those so completely turned off by the crazy talk of a pastor they could never relate to. It’s a tough job to erase the impassioned cries of, “God Damn America” in an electorate that secretly distrusts anyone with radical views. I guess only time will tell.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 18, 2008 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

Thank you for taking the time to both read and comment on my posts Bert. I appreciate your feedback.

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By bert, March 18, 2008 at 8:26 am Link to this comment

Maani, you write:    “Yet this time there is some evidence that it is Obama supporters who are engaged in this tactic.”

If you haven’t already, check out a previous post of mine. It is not just some evidence. There is a video of a TV ad that Obama is running currently in PA to do just that. And he has run simliar ads in other states. So it is a known fact now.It is a Obama campaign strategy.

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By bert, March 18, 2008 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

I know you didn’t ask me, Outraged. But I have been a Democrat all my life. But ever since McGovern lost I have taken a decidedly PRAGMATIC view of how youu win elections. And I really want, and I think the country NEEDS to defeat the Republican Presidential candidate in this election becasue so much is at stake - the survival of the greatest experiment in self rule in the history of the world, the Constitution, and not least of all the Supremes. I WANT A WINNER, becasuse we cannot afford as a nation another Bush.

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By bert, March 18, 2008 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Joe in Maine - I really appreciate your level headed responses to posters. Your responses are gracious and level-headed. Thanks you.

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By bert, March 18, 2008 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Leefeller - you keep missing the point.

Tou state:  “Every one of Obamas controversy’s has been taken care of with swiftness, eloquence and admission, but it is never good enough for Hillary clowns.”

It is NOT Hillary supporters you need worry about. It is the general electorate that Joe in Maine named, “your average ex-military, pickup drivin’, Skoll-chewin’, deer-huntin’, country music listenin’ good-ol-boys from the back woods of Maine to the swamps of Florida.”

In the General election Obama needs to get a majority of ALL the voters, not just those who vote in the D primaries.

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By Maani, March 18, 2008 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

This is the best piece I have read so far (out of a dozen or so) on Obama’s situation and speech.  It is even-handed and incisive.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9095.html

Peace.

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By Maani, March 18, 2008 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

Cyrena:

“It is never to anyone’s advantage to remain ignorant in a 21st Century world, when it is imperative that we communicate with each other, and that means understanding all of the individual perspectives, based on individuals’ life experiences.”

I agree.  Strongly.  But “communicating with each other” and “understanding all of the individual perspectives” does not - or at least SHOULD not - include calling other people “morons,” engaging in unfounded accusations and name-calling, denigrating others’ intelligence, and/or dismissing others’ points of view - OR NOT SPEAKING UP WHEN SOMEONE ELSE DOES.  (“All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing”)

You would do well to step back and consider whether you are living up to your own words here.

Peace.

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By Maani, March 18, 2008 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

This is, of course, exactly the way the GOP got Cynthia McKinney: having ~40,000 of its voters switch to the Democratic party so they could vote in the primary, and have them vote for McKinney’s opponent.  Then, switching back to vote in the general election, in which they roundly defeated same opponent.

Yet this time there is soe evidence that it is Obama supporters who are engaged in this tactic.

Peace.

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By Maani, March 18, 2008 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

Leefeller:

“Every one of Obamas controversy’s has been taken care of with swiftness, eloquence and admission, but it is never good enough for Hillary clowns.  Obama is setting a precedent of telling the truth and admitting when he is wrong.”

The problem is that he has been forced to do this FAR too often, especially in such a short span of time: Schiavo, Rezko (association), NAFTA/Canada, Wright (initial comment), Rezko again (campaign contributions), Wright again…

If he is wrong so often - if his judgment has failed him in such important ways (and Rezko and Wright ARE important ways) - then this is a serious liability, particularly vis-a-vis a general election campaign in which the right wing will use and re-use and beat to death any and every instance of bad judgment, no matter that he may have “explained” and even apologized for them.

Peace.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 18, 2008 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

I think the Good Ole Boys will rally against anyone the dems put up against McCain. Obama’s negitive polling numbers are on the rise ever since the 3AM Phone call spot in Texas. There is some preliminary polling that show his pastor is hurting him badly with the “Cracker” vote. If Hillary is the nominee then I’m sure Ann Coulter will find a way to back John McCain and I am sure that Rush Addict will stop encouraging his listeners to vote for Hillary. The GOP hate machine is pretty good at this stuff guys. Don’t expect the Swift-Boaters to tip their cards before they play their hand. If it’s Obama you’ll see the picture of Obama with his hands at his sides during the national antham. You’ll see the photo of him with his arm around Rev. Wright and ‘Amen-ing’ in church. If it’s Hillary they’ll suggest she murdered Vince Foster and revisit Travel Gate and try to drag up all the old favorites about a certain blue dress and Bill’s DNA. Expect it, because your candidate has been planning for it. That’s why some pundits even theorize that Obama has been encouraging this story to break at this moment so he can have the national stage and hit a political home run when his opponant can’t say a word about race at any level without being boxed in as a biggot.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 18, 2008 at 6:26 am Link to this comment

I see your point to some extent. There’s been an unsuccessful attempt to marginalize Obama as the unelectable black candidate, but that’s politics. Much in the same way Huckabilly and Ron Paul were marginalized in the debates with the reactionary chuckles of the other candidates on the stage after every comment. Did you see the way McCain and Thompson kept smiling whenever Ron Paul would go off on a tangent? same thing.

I do disagree that Clinton is at the root of the Rev. Wright problem. Pastor Disaster has been a problem for Obama since before he began his national campaign for the presidency. This part of the race issue is radioactive and is deadly for any opponent who touches it. A well understood political trueism is this. When your opponent is killing himself get the hell out of the way. This is Obama’s problem to either fix and benefit from or shrink away and die from.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 18, 2008 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

Cyrena. You wrote two very thoughtful posts that I had to read twice because of my lack of caffeine this morning. Thank you for helping me to better understand your life experience. I needed the lesson because I do come from one of the least racially-diverse states in the country. My thinking about Obama’s Major Speech on Race this morning has changed somewhat overnight. I still believe that Obama will defend his pastor because he must. He has to draw closer to Rev. Wright, not push him away.  He will denounce the words but not the man. He can’t because Wright is too well known to be in Obama’s inner sanctum. You cannot distance yourself with any credibility the man you call your spiritual advisor. Now I see him denouncing the divisive language Wright uses and he will take this opportunity to teach the American voters more about the black experience. He has known he would be giving this speech for well over a year now. Rev. Wright is one of the three big weaknesses Obama had coming into this race. This speech has been written long ago, the language in the speech has been tested, revised and retested on multiple focus groups consisting mainly of white males.  This speech today is the baseball equivalent of an underhand toss to David Ortiz. If Obama whiffs on this pitch, then he doesn’t deserve to be our nominee and he won’t be. I don’t expect him to miss this opportunity to show what a leader he can be, given a chance to heal the racial wounds that still smart when you dig the scab. He must try to recapture the hope and magic and inspire us again. Something he hasn’t been able to do since before Texas and Ohio because he’s been forced into a purely defensive campaign. Many think he’s peaked and that his popularity has nowhere to go but down. Look for him to embrace the man, Wright, embrace the good works of his church and denounce the more radical views of the pastor. He must find a way to turn this into a teaching opportunity and raise awareness among white male voters. This “God Damn America” stuff is going to destroy any chance he had of a crossover voter block. It’s never going to attract your average ex-military, pickup drivin’, Skoll-chewin’, deer-huntin’, country music listenin’ good-ol-boys from the back woods of Maine to the swamps of Florida. You can’t alienate the redneck vote this year and expect to win.

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By Leefeller, March 18, 2008 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

Well Clinton Clowns, you keep on attacking, even more relentlessly than the Republicans. This topic is about his response to the Wright flap. 

So you keep piling on you piles of crap,  when the worm turns, I may join the Republican side, because I am beginning to feel sorry for them. 

Obama is my first choice, Oh how about Samatha Powers, How about NAFTA gate, How about that ha-aw! 

Every one of Obamas controversy’s has been taken care of with swiftness, eloquence and admission, but it is never good enough for Hillary clowns.  Obama is setting a precedent of telling the truth and addmiting when he is wrong.  Something Hillary and her wreaking crew would never want or be able to.

Obama is not perfect but he is closer to it than the Washington established Hillary/McCain/Bush.

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By lib in texas, March 18, 2008 at 5:23 am Link to this comment

Bert, I couldn’t think of a word for Obamas solicitaion of Repubs and Inds but it is DIRTY POLITICS !!!!  That campaign has some slimy people working for them.

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By Outraged, March 18, 2008 at 1:06 am Link to this comment

Hey Cyrena, shh..shh.  Now just keep this on the hush…hush between you and me,....do you think “bert” is one of those crooked Republicans I was speaking of….?  Just give me the “high” sign, I’ll know what you mean…....shh…shh..

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By Outraged, March 18, 2008 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

Re: bert

Your quote: “I am outrageously dumbfounded by your lack of logic !!!!!!!”

Don’t worry “bert” when you grow up it will all become perfectly clear and then you won’t find yourself so “outrageously dumbfounded”.  You hang in there though sweetie.

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By kevin99999, March 17, 2008 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“It was only a matter of time before Barack Obama would have to weigh in on the controversy surrounding the sermons…”

What a respectful tone…is it reserved for Obama only?

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment

As an after thought, just because the initial news report was on a FOX affliate does not make the story any less true. And it does not make the research any less invalid.

You and a few others here just seem to prefer ignorance and apple pie in the sky, touchy-feely gobbly gook.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

Then you will help elect McCain and put him in the White House for four more years of Bush. Hope you can live with yourself for that.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

I am outrageously dumbfounded by your lack of logic !!!!!!!

Just curious though. What do you call it when Obama has to run a PAID TV ad to seek Tepublican votes?

Oh let me search the data bank of my brain for a few seconds….....I remenber, I think that is called prostituting one’s self.I am outrageously dumbfounded by your lack of logic !!!!!!!

Just curious though. What do you call it when Obama has to run a PAID TV ad to seek Republican votes?

Oh let me search the data bank of my brain for a few seconds….....I remember, I think that is called prostituting one’s self.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

THIS could be problematic according to Cyrena citing the editorial by Scott Hellman of the Boston Globe.

I read this earlier today and wrote Mr. Hellman charging him with hypocrsy and sexism IF he did not also report that Obama HIMSELF is actively seeking and running TV ads soliciting Republicans and Independents to register Demcratic for the PA Primary. (And oh, bu the way wink-wink - Vote for Change i.e. me - Obama.)  Dems For a Day Campaign.

The PA primary is closed, which means to vote in it you must be a registerd Dem. He tells viewers how to do it, sign up right on line at HIS web site. And this is not the first time Obama has run ads like this and campaigns like this. He has done it in several states. HE IS SHAMELESS !!!!!!

For all you doubters out there here is a link to the ad from you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI_m3UPpRRY&eurl=http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/16/obamas-choice-for-michigan/

I have mentioned many times before on this blog that Obama has been winning primaries, especially of the caucus type, with R and I votes. In fact, WITHOUT those R & I voters he would not have won as many primaries and delegates as he has.

I have complained about this before, but have been critized by folks like cyrena, Mike Mid City and others about being too dependent on those pesky little things called facts.

Personally, I don’t think ANY R or I should be able to vote in the Dems primary. It destroys the integrity of the process . Dems should be electing their nominee for President, NOT Repugs and I’s.

Hillary cannot be held responsible for what conservative radio talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh say and or ask their crazy fans to do.

AND BE CAREFUL HERE FOLKS. YOU RISK BEING HYPOCRITES ON THIS IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT BECAUSE ALL DAY TODAY YOU HAVE BEEN WRITING AND TELLING ME THAT OBAMA IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HIS MINISTER SAYS.

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.Well, with the Obama crew here they will certainly try.

It is one thing to be the recipent of Republican’s vote by a campaign run by conservative idiots VS actively going out and encouraging and seeking the support of those very same voters and receiving their votes, and WINNING the election because of them.

There is a name for that and it is called DIRTY POLITICS.

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By Outraged, March 17, 2008 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

Hi Cyrena,

It’s definitely problematic, however I do think that it’ll only be the most crooked of Republicans who will utilize this tactic.  Many honest Republicans will view this as a reason TO vote for Obama in the general.  Somewhat of a “last straw” regarding the crooks who have overrun their party.

It will create a deep division in an already faltering party.  It was bad enough for honest Republicans to find their representatives so heavily involved in criminal activity, but to request that voters join in, will exemplify to these voters the rank disregard for ethics in the party.

It does show you who the “crooks” decided they don’t stand a chance against in the general election though doesn’t it?  The only other reason they could possibly endorse this tactic would be that a Clinton win is as good for them as is a McCain win.

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By Outraged, March 17, 2008 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

bert:

Research…???  from MY FOX KC..??!!  What, are you trying to be funny here.  That is funny….LOL…thanks I needed that.

Gmonst:

“However bad it is, it needs to happen so we can actually make some progress, and I am not going to let myself be manipulated by fear of attacks into making any decisions, even voting for Hillary.”

Excellent point, because that is precisely what this is all about.  Hang tough.

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By cyrena, March 17, 2008 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

This is interesting, but not connected to Rev, Wright, and not really new either. They’ve been writing this up since the Ohio/TX/Mississippi contests.

THIS could do Obama damage, but not the Wright thing.

Many Voting for Clinton to Boost GOP
  By Scott Helman
  The Boston Globe

  Monday 17 March 2008

  For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.

  A sudden change of heart? Hardly.

  Since Senator John McCain effectively sewed up the GOP nomination last month, Republicans have begun participating in Democratic primaries specifically to vote for Clinton, a tactic that some voters and local Republican activists think will help their party in November. With every delegate important in the tight Democratic race, this trend could help shape the outcome if it continues in the remaining Democratic primaries open to all voters.

  Spurred by conservative talk radio, GOP voters who say they would never back Clinton in a general election are voting for her now for strategic reasons: Some want to prolong her bitter nomination battle with Barack Obama, others believe she would be easier to beat than Obama in the fall, or they simply want to register objections to Obama.

  “It’s as simple as, I don’t think McCain can beat Obama if Obama is the Democratic choice,” said Kyle Britt, 49, a Republican-leaning independent from Huntsville, Texas, who voted for Clinton in the March 4 primary. “I do believe Hillary can mobilize enough [anti-Clinton] people to keep her out of office.”

The rest at the link..

http://www.truthout.org/

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By cyrena, March 17, 2008 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

I read this as well Bert. But ya know, for the life of me, I just can’t find anything that claims Obama is going on TV to ‘defend his pastor”, even though Joe in Maine said the same thing?

So, did you just copy/plagiarize that from Joe’s post, (that’s pretty much the way you professional character defamers do it, right?) or do you too have the ability to read Obamas mind, and know what he’s going to say before he says it?

He did do an interview with Gwen Ifill today, that probably gives an idea of what he’s going to cover, and it is supposed to be a talk on Race and Religion. So maybe at least some of America’s population can gain some insight or a little bit of knowledge from that.

In a country of the size and diversity of the US, it’s there are so many people who are simply never EXPOSED to other cultures or religions or differences in the ways of thinking about things, based on life experiences. Some people never really get any further than their own small surroundings. And, even though their environments might be comfortable enough, (even luxurious) it still doesn’t allow for any ‘on hand’ sort of understanding of other world views.

So, maybe some Americans will gain from his speech tomorrow. I don’t have any hope for you of course, because you’ve obviously got an entirely different agenda that can only be satisfied by the guy’s total destruction.

Thing is bert, you can quote numbers from fill-in-the-blank polls, but they don’t tally up with reality. There are something like 10 contests left in the primaries. If Hillary won every single one, she STILL couldn’t catch up, and that’s the reality.

But, feel free to keep making up poll numbers. Gives you something to do, and I guess it beats sticking pins in little dolls you’ve made into mini-Obamas.

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By cyrena, March 17, 2008 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

Part 1
Joe in Maine,

I too read that Obama would be giving a speech tomorrow, and I’m just curious to know how you already know what he’s going to say, before he says it. Like, how do you know that he’s going to ‘defend’ Rev. Wright?

More importantly, why do so many of you believe that Rev. Wright NEEDS defending?

Too many folks (and maybe it is a younger generation than my own who are making these interpretations) seem to believe that there was something horribly unethical in all of Rev. Wright’s sermons of the past 20 years.  I’m having trouble comprehending that interpretation, even though I’ve admittedly only listened to the edited-out-of-context segments that the rest of you have seen.

Even if, as a middle-aged woman of color, I had not heard similar sermons on and off throughout my lifetime, I STILL wouldn’t have found anything particular ‘radical’ about those cut up segments that have been aired all over the media during the past several days.

And, I’ve watched (and read) a number of times. There is absolutely nothing the man says that first of all, isn’t TRUE, or at least, doesn’t resonate with the population that he is speaking to. If one is black in America, they KNOW racism. It’s that simple. Some have been more victimized by it than others, but the fact of the matter is that it DOES exist in the US, and it always HAS existed in the US, and for anyone to believe that it just shouldn’t be addressed or talked about in a church where most of the members happen to be black, is just plain stupid!

So, for anyone who happens to believe that the TRUTH is too radical, I’m not sure what to suggest. I CAN say that ignoring the truth, or continuing to maintain some sort of willful ignorance about race, is certainly not to ANYONE’S advantage, including the ignorant racist.

It is never to anyone’s advantage to remain ignorant in a 21st Century world, when it is imperative that we communicate with each other, and that means understanding all of the individual perspectives, based on individuals’ life experiences. And THAT would be required, no matter WHAT color a person is.

So, I don’t get these folks who immediately assume that something is ‘radical’ just because they fail to interpret what is being said, in the CONTEXT in which it is being addressed, based on the AUDIENCE to whom it is being addressed.

Now I don’t know what Barack Obama plans to say in his address tomorrow, but I don’t think it’s going to involve a ‘defense’ of Rev. Wright, since the congregation to whom Rev. Wright was speaking, obviously didn’t have a problem with the TRUTHS that he was preaching.

Now what Sen. Obama MAY attempt to do, is to wise up some of the most ignorant among us. I don’t know how much luck he’s gonna have with that, but I certainly respect him for trying.

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By cyrena, March 17, 2008 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

Joe in Maine

Part 2
If I was Obama, (at least at this point) I’d figure enough was enough, and it was time to get on with the issues that matter to all Americans…TODAY. Now he DID say today, that the ECONOMY is in SHAMBLES, because….IT IS!! Hillary of course is being extra cautious on the subject of the US taxpayer bail out of the latest (and largest to date) corporate fall-out. McCain thinks it’s a great idea that the Feds, (that’s us) are gonna bail them out, and Bush is saying that the poor investors are losing out as well, so I guess we’re supposed to somehow believe that makes it OK for US to bail them out?

So, when are you accusing racists gonna let this stuff go with the religious guys? First it was Farrakhan, who admittedly DOES have a more radical view that he’s chosen to preach far more publically. (come on - Rev. Wright was giving a sermon in his own Church…to those church members).

But, aside from the fact that Obama and Farrakhan both live in Chicago, and both happen to be members of the African-American community, what the hell does that have to do with Barack? And how many times do ya’ll want him to repudiate the stuff that comes from Farrakhan, who certainly can’t be any crazier or more ‘radical’ than Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. (which the CIA has attempted by the way - twice).

And what about that other crazy dude…is it Jerry Falwell? (I can’t keep them all straight). And then there’s the one that just endorsed John McCain…that Hagee guy. And, he hates EVEYBODY…Check this out..

The McCain-Hagee Connection
Why is the press ignoring this hate-monger?
By Zachary Roth Fri 7 Mar 2008 02:27 PM

•  “More than a week after John McCain’s endorsement by the anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic pastor John Hagee, the media continues to give the GOP nominee a free pass. “

•  “Consider the following pronouncements by Hagee, the man who McCain proudly introduced as an ally last week.”
On Jews:
•  “It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day.”
And:
•  “How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for his chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings he had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.”

Then he starts up on the Catholics, but you’ll have to read the rest of this BS at the link:

http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/the_mccainhagee_connection_1.php

And, McCain has actively SOLICITED this guy’s endorsement. Obama didn’t ask Farrakhan for an endorsement and he doesn’t hang out at the NOI.

So, let’s get a little perspective here folks. And when you do, then you should make an honest assessment of what it is that you REALLY don’t like about Barack Obama, and just admit it. The truth is better than you guys just spreading a lot of hate based on a created (in your own minds) association between Rev. Wright’s socio-theological ideology and Barack Obama’s political positions, and abilities to lead the American people back to some sort of recovery.

We’re already in a death spiral thanks to the thugs that have raping and exploiting us for over 7 years, so unless you want us all to crash and burn, you need to get beyond the piddly BS and the hate mongering.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

Research Shows Obama Hurt

This is very interesting.


http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6055022&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.11.1


I just found this neat link. You should check it out just for the technology.

African Americans, Independents, Democrats, and Republicans were surveyed. While viewing segments of video of some of Wright’s speeches, participants indicated their levels of agreement by moving their mouse from left to right on a continuum.

If you go to the link provided above you can see where there was agreement or not.

I have included a summary chart of the findings.

After viewing the video, are you more likely or less likely to support Senator Barack Obama?

  Democrats Republicans Independents
More likely 19% 7% 18%
Less likely 52% 71% 54%
Don’t know 28% 22% 29%

Do you think Barack Obama’s religious ties will to Jeremiah Wright will help or hurt his campaign efforts?

Prior to viewing the video segments:

  Democrats Republicans Independents
Help 6% 2% 5%
Hurt 64% 71% 65%
Don’t know 30% 27% 30%

After viewing the video segments:

  Democrats Republicans Independents
Help 7% 6% 9%
Hurt 77% 84% 78%
Don’t know 16% 10% 14%

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment

If you forget history you are doomed to repeat it. Look up the Ken Starr investigation. Give it a fair read and you’ll realize that the Rethuglicans spent close to $70 million dollars overturning every rock looking for Clinton slime. They even imprisoned people trying to make them flip on ol friends Bill & Hill. They looked at every tax return, every car trunk and overdue video rental. They never found a friggin thing!!! Now I am going to make a huge leap here and assume that when the Clintons make all the kids happy, releasing tax returns, and finally show how stinkin rich they actually are, there will be NOTHING that sticks to them except an obscene number of zeros.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena writes:    :“For whatever the reasons, I don’t think Obama needs do any more ‘responding’ than he already has….”

Well, tomorrow Obama is going on TV to try and defend his pastor.

Gee !!! What a surprise. Obama did not listen to your advice.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

Obama is not simply guilty by associating with the good Rev. Wright. Being shocked to discover gambling at Rick’s ain’t gonna play kids. His precise verbal non-denial-denial, “I was, ahhhh, never present when the most controversial of his remarks, ahhh,  were made” goes against the very core of his identity as a candidate. Remember change we can believe in? How about a different kind of politics, going beyond the politics of personal destruction? Obama spoke beautifully about having integrity and giving us straight talk, (as opposed to the lying bitch I’m a runnin against…) right? Remember all that stuff spoken from on high when the clouds parted and the celestial choir sang? Did you miss that part? Oh well, you must have been out at the Kool-Aid concession stand in the hallway during that part of Obama’s speech, huh? The rethuglicans are going to peel him like a banana in the general. Oddly enough they will find nothing under there but jockeys, no skeleton or anything, making him an actual empty suit, but I digress. The Swift-Boaters will call him a (wait for it…) LIAR!!! Mr. Obama finds himself with a growing credibility problem. That’s without even mentioning the Rezko accounting error he dumped on top of the Wright bad news late Friday afternoon.

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By Shenonymous, March 17, 2008 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

cyrena this is off topic but I ran across this site and thought of you and if you did not know about it you might be interested.

George W. Bush Presidential Papers
http://www.paperlessarchives.com/gwb.html

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Funny but not very bright.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

Gmonst writes:    “However, I am not going to be scared away from a candidate just because they are an easy target for manipulation and negative attacks.”


Then don’t come here crying and moaning Wed., Nov. 5, 2008. You will get no sympathy from me only comdemnation for putting another Republican in the White House for four more tears!

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By Leefeller, March 17, 2008 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

Obama could change his campaign slogan to read “god damn Bushed America”.

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By Ted Swart, March 17, 2008 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

Barack Obama is, as all of you know, 50% white and cannot in all honesty be classified as “black” or spoken of in advance as likely to be the first “black’ president in the history of the US.
Moreover, his mother was neither a Muslim nor a Christian but an atheist and I would almost certainly have had more reason to support him if he had followed in his mother’s sensible footsteps. He tells us that pastor Wright brought him to Jesus and Wright,in a sermon/talk, even went so far as to compare Barack to Jesus. The messianic fervour which has come to surround his campaign for the presidency is surely something which should make all of us scared. Listen to his talks and tell me if you do not see a huge similarity to sermons in evangelical churches.
The truth is he chose to attend Wright’s church for 20 years and, when his wife says she only became proud of being an American for the first time when her husbands presidential campaign took off, it sound very much as if both of them are closer to Wright than they care to admit. And don’t forget that Wright lauds Farrakan to high heaven.
All in all the choice between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is what I would call Hobson’s choice.
The truth is that the political system in general and the primary system in particular is so broken and grotesque that it has no chance of putting a truly pragmatic radical in the White House—which is what is really needed. Give me a pragmatist (such as Bloomberg) over an ideologue any day. But what chance does an independent stand?  Zilch!
Being a realist I think the chance of Obama becoming the next president is very high (sorry Maani!) and hope that if you are one of his acolytes you do not end in being bitterly disappointed.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

Put all of that into a 30 second TV ad.

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By Leefeller, March 17, 2008 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

Not for this voter, who is not in disagreement with the comments by Wright

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By Leefeller, March 17, 2008 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

Interesting comments, I have read him in the Nation and he has some connection to reality, provides thought, insight and enlightenment

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By Outraged, March 17, 2008 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

Christopher Hayes writes in the Nation:

“But it is only through the most debased and perverse logic of racial guilt by association, whereby every black politician has to denounce Louis Farrakhan, that the the political views of a candidate’s spiritual mentor should have any truck whatsoever. If Barack Obama’s campaign for the presidency is derailed by a few intemperate remarks that his retiring pastor gave to a church which did not even contain the senator in its pews, it leads one to think that Wright’s skepticism about America’s treatment of black Americans and a black presidential candidate is wholly justified. And if, of all things, it is his pastor’s heated denunciation of American injustice that undoes the candidacy of an African American with a legitimate chance at the White House, any conscientious observer could be forgiven for thinking: God damn America indeed.”

I agree.

“Guatemala, 1953-1990s:
A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically-elected and progressive government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of death-squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions, and unimaginable cruelty, totaling well over 100,000 victims -indisputably one of the most inhuman chapters of the 20th century. Arbenz had nationalized the U.S. firm, United Fruit Company, which had extremely close ties to the American power elite. As justification for the coup, Washington declared that Guatemala had been on the verge of a Soviet takeover, when in fact the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn’t even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem in the eyes of Washington, in addition to United Fruit, was the danger of Guatemala’s social democracy spreading to other countries in Latin America.”

From William Blum’s short history of America’s Interventions.

http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

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By Gmonst, March 17, 2008 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

I may not be that old, but I am aware enough to know how low some will stoop to get or maintain power.  I was young, but I do remember the Willie Horton stuff, and I also remember a picture of Dukakis riding a tank looking very goofy with the headgear on.  The fact that I was just a kid at the time, but I remember it is proof enough of the power of using images in a negative way.  If it didn’t work so well our elections would be nice and polite affairs.  I get that.

However, I am not going to be scared away from a candidate just because they are an easy target for manipulation and negative attacks.  Usually the attacks start later in the year, but Hillary got the smear season going early this year.  I don’t think its correct to assume that she won’t be the object of much negative smearing if she is the candidate.  I get whats happening now, her campaign is trying to expose his “dirt” to show how she will be a stronger match for McCain.  While I disagree with the tactic, I understand it, but I will bet there is still plenty in the old Clinton closet to keep the republican smearmasters happy.

Like I told my wife the other day, this campaign is going to expose the rotten underbelly of race and gender relations in this country and that is already starting to happen, and its only going to get worse. However bad it is, it needs to happen so we can actually make some progress, and I am not going to let myself be manipulated by fear of attacks into making any decisions, even voting for Hillary.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

Tomorrow BO is going on TV and is going to try to defend his pastor. What else can he do really? He must pull Wright closer and somehow try to spin the man’s hate-rants and bigotry into a lesson on race relations. Ballsy move. This political tactic is usually like trying to defuse a bomb. Most of the time they blow up in your face. But this bomb already exploded in his face. He is 10 feet behind a problem he realized was an electoral deal-breaker for white American voters for more than a year now. Tomorrow Obama will be standing there blood-soaked and soot-faced trying to explain why he cut the wrong colored wire just before the big boom sound we all heard last Thursday night. Not to put any additional pressure on the guy but his whole political future depends on spin and damage control now…

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

Amen Brother! Testify! Can I get a hallelujah? Praise God!

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

Gmonst wrutes:  Re: Soundbites Matter!
The big difference is all those were uttered by the person whom they hurt, not by their pastors. I am not saying that soundbites don’t matter, but at least judge Obama for his own soundbites.

Gmonst, I do judge Obama by his own sound bites.

But there are those who will take this and manipulate this in order to keep power and the White House.

The ad Joe in Maine refers to with Willie Horton was basically all lies. And it brought down Mike Dukakis. That wasn’t the only thing, but it contributed a lot. And some of us were outraged at the blantant racism inherent in the ad. The other side plays hardball.

Advertising can be so deceptive, no more so that in politics.

Look what happened to a real war hero with the swift boating of John Kerry.

That is all Joe in Maine is saying. The repubs are just waiting to tear down who ever the Dems nominate, and Obama just pitched them a homerun with all the bases loaded.

This is the big leagues as Joe in Maine said.

And unfortunately, negative attack ads work. Evertone complains and everyone says we shouldn’t use them. But they have a way of working. So campaigns continue to use them.

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By Marshall, March 17, 2008 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

The idea that 9/11 was the result of our actions in WWII is laughable, yet this same guy has been inspiring (a form of advisement) Obama, a potential leader of our country.

Obama is right to distance himself from Wright.  What’s distressing is that he ever accepted him in the first place.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Well I guess any attempted comedy comes with that kind of risk. I’m not sure which show I was watching, maybe it was Mornin’ Blow? Not sure. Someone said Rev. Wright’s first name and screamed, “Jeremiah was a bullfrog!”. It kind of went from there…

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

Great reply,  “Welcome to the big leagues kids.”

Some of the posters on here don’t seem to understand this. They don’t know how this is going to play. You are absolutely right.

And Bark pleading not to interject race will fall on deaf ears.

And the republican right wing smear machine is not going to think one second about airing something like what you created. over and over amd over. And Obama and the Dem party and the left radio and talk shows are not going to strong arm and those that want to keep power and the White House.

Glad you are here.

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By Gmonst, March 17, 2008 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

The big difference is all those were uttered by the person whom they hurt, not by their pastors. I am not saying that soundbites don’t matter, but at least judge Obama for his own soundbites.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

You must not have been around to hear Jesse Jackson call NY city, “Hymietown”. You must not have been around when Howard Dean screamed. You might be too young to remember Bush The First insist, “Read my lips!”

All pretty innocent soundbites, but when you mash them up and play them over and over and over and over again, then the real effect takes place. You’ll see. This is Willie Horton for the new generation. Welcome to the big leagues kids.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment

Maani writes:    “You really get a kick out of deliberately twisting and/or conflating my words and misquoting me, don’t you?  You know very well that is not what I said, nor what I meant.  But only YOU would read it that way.”

Maani -  Some people have a compulsion to tell others what they should or should not do; how they think or how they should think; what they think or how they should think.

This compulsion generally stems from feelings of personal inadequacy and inability to exert control over their own lives, hence the desire to control other people’s actions.

Sadly, for these poor souls, without professional help the prognosis is quite grim.

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By bert, March 17, 2008 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

The right wing has found its swift boating issue for Obama.

And P.S. Joe in Maine, this is funny. And I agree with Maani. You are going to get some pretty nasty responses and are going to be called all sorts of names.

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By Blackspeare, March 17, 2008 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

The question is will BHO be able to explain where he was on the 17 different occasions the right Reverend Wright made a racist, anti-Israel or country hating statement or was he at church during these occasions and failed to act. And if such is the case will he then arrogantly tell the rest of us, in his preacher man voice, how we have to get over racism and all join together and elect him to the presidency.  Oh, by the way, in spite of my rhetoric, HBO has my vote because things are just getting a little dull——all we have is the Iraq War, the potential for a deep recession, a huge investment-house failure, a falling dollar, massive home foreclosures, and a deepening conflict in the ME with oil prices soaring.  We need something else and maybe BHO can bring it on!

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By Conservative Yankee, March 17, 2008 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

But don’t quit your day job!

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By Maani, March 17, 2008 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

Joe:

LOL!  But watch out!  You KNOW that the Obamamaniacs here are REALLY gonna give it you now!!  LOL.

Peace.

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By Joe Sixpack, March 17, 2008 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

Client: American Patriots for Change
Title: Pastor Disaster
:30 Second HD Video
Run Dates: September 1, 2008 – TFN
Ad Buy: Red States in November

Composition:
(Music: Three Dog Night – Joy to the World) (Used with permission)
(Still Photos 1 - 6)
(Video Packages 1 - 3)


FADE IN

Video:      (Still #1 - Pastor Wright in Robes) (Left edge Appear - PANS to right)
SFX       (Music) “Jeremiah was a bullfrog”
Transition:  (Slide Show Pan L/R with new slide appear)
Video:      (Still #2 Wright/Obama Hug) (Left edge PANS to right)
SFX:      (Music) “Was a good friend of mine”
Video:      (Text Over Slide) “Rev. Wright brought me to Christ – B Obama 3/08”
Transition:  QUICK DISSOLVE
VIDEO:  (Still #3 Angry Preaching/Arm points) (Left edge PANS to right)
SFX:      (MUSIC) “I never understood a single word he said”
Transition:  (Slide Show Pan L/R with new slide appear)
Video:      (Still #4 Obama Denounces) (Left edge PANS to right)
Video:      (Text Over Slide) “I never heard that kind of language… – B Obama 3/08”
SFX:  (MUSIC) “But I helped him a-drink his wine.”
Video:      (Still #5 Obama Smirk) (Left edge PANS to right)
Video:      (Text Over Slide) “Obama, a 20-year congregant of Wright’s… – NY Times 3/08”
SFX:  Music) “And he always had some mighty fine wine Singin’...”
Video:  (Still #6 Obama Family Smiles in Pew AMEN!) (Left edge PANS to right)
SFX:  (MUSIC) “Joy to the world”
Video:      (Still #4 Obama Denounces Rev. Wright)
Video:      (Text Over Slide) “Obama donated $20K to Trinity in 2007– NY Times 3/08”
Transition:  (Slide Show Pan L/R with new slide appear)
SFX:      (Music) “All the boys and girls now”
Video:  (Still #7 Obama Children in church)
Transition:  Quick FADE
SFX   (FADE SFX to background) “Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea”
“Joy to you and me”
Transition   SFX MUSIC FADE OUT – HEARTBEAT SFX FADE IN and OVER
Video:  (Video Package 1) – Obama – “I don’t think my church/controversial)
Transition   Quick Dissolve) ROLL (Video Package 2) – Obama – “Words Matter!”
Transition   Quick Fade 2 / Dissolve to (Still #8 Obama Angry)
SFX     (VOICE Over Slide) “Barrak Obama. What does he really believe?”
Video:      (Video Package 3) – Wright – “Nah, nah, nah God Damn America!”
Video     (Still #6 Obama Family in Pew AMEN!) (Left edge PANS to right)
Video:      (Text Over Slide) “Paid for by American Patriots for Change in 2009”

FADE OUT

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By Angel, March 17, 2008 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/03/16/contrary-claims-obama-very-close-racist-preacher-wright

On June 5th, 2007, Senator Barack Obama spoke before 8,000 people gathered in Hampton University’s Convocation Center. Most of them were pastors and ministers attending a conference there.

He was there to speak on mostly post Katrina issues and to criticize the Bush administration’s efforts during that natural disaster. Obama tried his catch phrase of the moment, saying that a “quiet riot” might be occurring in America and he affirmed that he felt that America was a racist nation, that the reaction to Katrina had just “pulled back the screen” on America’s racism. Obama also used rhetoric heavily doused with religious symbolism.

But, that boiler plate aside, there was two very interesting segments in Obama’s remarks concerning his racist “spiritual mentor,” Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr. that are not getting the press it deserves. (See the video at Channel 2 News Chicago)

He was effusive in his praise and admiration for Wright, this foaming at the mouth, hate monger. This runs contrary to his late claims that he is somehow shocked by Wright’s racism, or that he now disagrees with him as well as his claim that he was not familiar enough with Wright to know of his point of view.

As the speech kicked off (at 1:07 into the video), Obama introduced the Rev. Wright to the audience with these glowing and highly personal words:

And then I’ve got to give a special shout out to my Pastor. The guy who puts up with me, counsels me, listens to my wife complain about me. He’s a friend and a great leader not just in Chicago but all across the country, so please everybody give an extraordinary welcome to my pastor Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Jr., Trinity United Church of Christ.

this also ran in the Chicago Illinois tribune read it online buy Googling his preachers name.

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By Maani, March 17, 2008 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena:

“I don’t know if you’ve got an appropriate return on your efforts, which have been vast and steady. I’ll give you that.”

Well, to be fair, there is a certain measure of “equality” here between us, since BOTH of us have been preaching to our respective choirs: you to MMC, Leefeller, Outraged and Louise, me to Doug, bert, lib and (more recently) Gomerspile.  No one in either “group” (each of which actually includes a dozen people or more) is going to suddenly get a revelation from the anyone in the other group that is going to make them switch sides.  As I noted on another thread, the “echo chamber” of LieDig is mostly useful for honing positions and (hopefully) learning proper and effective debating skills so we can more effectively speak about our candidates and the issues.

“So, you interpret Obama’s huge delegate lead (super, and regular sized) as a self-implosion?”

You really get a kick out of deliberately twisting and/or conflating my words and misquoting me, don’t you?  You know very well that is not what I said, nor what I meant.  But only YOU would read it that way.

Peace.

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By Outraged, March 17, 2008 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

“But most or all of the skeletons in Hillary’s closet have long since been dragged out and publicly flogged to death by the media; they are “old news” and unlikely to have “legs.””

I disagree.  Obviously the press has been “covering” for Clinton.  Why are these stories NOT “coming out”.  Clinton is banking on the “let sleeping dogs lie” adage in hopes that everyone will do just that. 

Young adult voters, most likely have NEVER heard about the many Clinton connections regarding “less than savory” characters.  Did newspapers AROUND THE COUNTRY carry an accurate in-depth coverage of these indiscrepancies even as they were revealed?  Did they run stories about them at all?

I’ve lived in some very rural areas and I’ve found they normally don’t report elaborately if at all on national issues.  Local libraries are sometimes seriously lacking in objective, accurate, current, information also. Thankfully most areas now have internet access.  Although satellite internet services can be pricey, so in this regard, not NECESSARILY available to everyone.

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