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‘Yes, We Can’

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Posted on Jan 26, 2008
Oabama
AP photo / Steven Senne

The full effect of Barack Obama’s transcendent victory speech in South Carolina has yet to be felt, but his historically stirring and inspirational words have already generated praise from around the country and even across the political aisle. Whether this speech proves to be the turning point in this election, we don’t know. What we do know is that Obama has made Hillary Clinton’s contention that words don’t matter seem so very small and suspect.

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By Henry Barnston, April 12, 2008 at 9:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dina:
As usual I agree with your sharp insight on these issues and look forward to your next comments.  I am your biggest fan, and enjoy all your thoughts.  Have you considere running for political office yourself?  I would vote for you, or even help your campaign in any way I could.
Henry

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By Henry Barnston, April 11, 2008 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dina:
I think we should discuss your view further over coffee or an ouzo.  Your passion for change is obvious and I’d like to review your position on this issue on a local level here in Los Angeles.

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By cyrena, February 3, 2008 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

Excellent commentary Canadian Oak, and I’m sure that I am not the only one who appreciates it. Many on this forum can testify to the same.

I have been following Dahr Jamail’s report for quite some time now. I’ve even been fortunate enough to have him at appearances in my own community, (just north of you) and if the reality that he reports from the fronts cannot be found in the MSM, we of course know why. (the explanation above, about the green-light from the Oval Office for the Falluja Massacre) is the reason. BTW, Dahr’s documentary, “Caught in the Crossfire” also makes this come to real life, though it’s not likely to be made known on
MSN either. So, I’m just throwing that out there, for those in need of ‘visual aides’ to what he reports.

Thanks for bringing this info to the forum.

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By forgot password, February 2, 2008 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sz4_aYMS6g

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By cyrena, January 31, 2008 at 1:23 am Link to this comment

By Maani, January 29 at 9:37 pm #
(308 comments total)
Re: Re:
Cyrena:
In my brief time here (LOL), I have noticed that Doug is actually quite rational about MOST things (though you seem to disagree with him about many of them…) - with the exception of Israel, with which he clearly has a (possibly obsessive and unhealthy) fixation.
I wonder what THAT’s about…?
My guess on the Israel fixation is that a lot of folks have it, only because so much evil has been perpetrated against America, on behalf of Israel, and it’s next to impossible not to be aware of their gross crimes against humanity.

So, that’s probably the reason for Chalmer’s obsessive fixation on Israel. I couldn’t disagree with him on that, even if I wanted to, since I’m not into disagreement just for the sake of disagreement.

But, we agree on little else, because he has an unhealthy and obsessive fixation on just about EVERYTHING, regardless of whether or not it has any rational basis, or connection to what the discussion is generally about. He’s neurotic, and so that makes it difficult to find anything other than the very occasional morsel of logic, or rationale.

That’s not to say that he NEVER comes up with any, because that wouldn’t be true either. It’s just that it’s so rare, that one is inclined to miss it, just because they get used to just bypassing the stuff, because it’s generally just a bunch of irrelevant drivel, totally lacking in any objectivity. And, most political or socio-political issues require at least a measure of objectivity.

Cyrena:
In my brief time here (LOL), I have noticed that Doug is actually quite rational about MOST things (though you seem to disagree with him about many of them…) - with the exception of Israel, with which he clearly has a (possibly obsessive and unhealthy) fixation.
I wonder what THAT’s about…?
My guess on the Israel fixation is that a lot of folks have it, only because so much evil has been perpetrated against America, on behalf of Israel, and it’s next to impossible not to be aware of their gross crimes against humanity.

So, that’s probably the reason for Chalmer’s obsessive fixation on Israel. I couldn’t disagree with him on that, even if I wanted to, since I’m not into disagreement just for the sake of disagreement.

But, we agree on little else, because he has an unhealthy and obsessive fixation on just about EVERYTHING, regardless of whether or not it has any rational basis, or connection to what the discussion is generally about. He’s neurotic, and so that makes it difficult to find anything other than the very occasional morsel of logic, or rationale.

That’s not to say that he NEVER comes up with any, because that wouldn’t be true either. It’s just that it’s so rare, that one is inclined to miss it, just because they get used to just bypassing the stuff, because it’s generally just a bunch of irrelevant drivel, totally lacking in any objectivity. And, most political or socio-political issues require at least a measure of objectivity.


But then, that’s the same reason why nobody pays any attention to lilmamzer either, at least not after a time. It’s like trying to carry on a conversation with a seriously delusional schizophrenic or advance staged Alzheimer’s patient. Rarely, (if ever) are they actually in the ‘real world’ and then it’s fleeting.

I’m not saying these people are necessarily crazy, because neurotics can be intelligent. It’s just that it gets wasted in their psychotic behaviors.

Chalmer’s isn’t nearly as bad as lil mamzer though. I’ll give him that much, even if it is a backhanded sort of compliment.

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By Canadian Oak, January 30, 2008 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Living in West L.A. before 9-11, I expected something to happen with Israel having rampaged across the West Bank during the previous six months. Walking past a popular deli near the Bruin Theater one night in Westwood Village, there on the bench sat an older Jewish diner, lighting up a cigar after his meal. He greeted me as I approached and then began to foam at the mouth regards the very popular Persian restaurant that had recently opened around the corner, north of the Fox Village Theater. I can assure you he wasn’t talking about real estate; he was talking racism. He reminded me of my neo-Nazi uncle who had driven a tank across Europe for Patton. Uncle John just couldn’t help himself and always declaimed that we had fought on the wrong side in World War II. Shades of the best years of my life and I’m a Viet Vet to boot.

One of the windows in my apartment opened out directly towards the front door of an adjoining apartment.  The tenant, an immigrant from eastern Europe, had lots of visitors from the local Romanian community. He also had occasional visits from a young Jewish native of New York City, one who made no bones about what he felt regarding anyone of Arab descent. He would have made Himmler proud. He loved to accost and hurl his sheer racism at oriental tenants in the apartment above me.

After 9-11 there was an open forum held at the Geffen Theater concerning Arab-American/Jewish-American community relations. Both groups were of course represented on the panel.  I was quite impressed by Rabbi Lerner and equally so by the representative of a local Arab-American community group. Questions were entertained from the audience and unfortunately, a local Jewish activist was attending, one who described himself as a homeowner residing in Pacific Palisades. At every opportunity this character would jump up and vociferously snarl a beligerent question at the Arab-American panelist. One had the impression that the questioner would not have been satisfied unless the panelist he so detested promised to kill himself in order to placate the buy-eyed fascist shouting his questions from next to where I was sitting in the back row.

Yesterday I finished reading Dahr Jamail’s recently published volume of essays written from the front lines of the war in Iraq (unembedded!). What Jamail reports, particularly the measures employed by American forces are nowhere to be witnessed in MSM reporting, including indiscriminant genocidal tactics so reminiscent of Israel in the West Bank, in Lebanon and in Gaza. I can guarantee you all folks, you won’t find this book on sale at Borders.
The Mi Lai Massacre in Vietnam was miniscule in comparison with what the American military wrought against innocent civilians in the Nov. ‘04 Battle of Falluja. It wasn’t in fact a battle, it was a war crime, people, green-lighted by the Oval Office. I’m sorry to say that fascism on behalf of Israel has been on the march these past seven years. It would be so refreshing for a presidential candidate to call for a total new approach to America’s mideast policy.

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By PatrickHenry, January 30, 2008 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

In response to post By lilmamzer, January 29 at 12:28 pm #

Somehow the reply didn’t get posted under he/she/its comment.

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 30, 2008 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

#By Ostrogoth, January 29 : “...lilmamzer… Again, the anti-Semitic smear against those who oppose racism and ethnic cleansing. This guy has no decency, pure and simple…”

#By PatrickHenry, January 29: “...most of us are not part of the “overwhelming majority” you speak of that that support Israel (I find very few) and it’s foreign policy (even fewer) you state it is impossible to separate Israel from zionism…”

#By lilmamzer, January 29: “... an inner world reduced to simplistic extremes of Good and Evil…”

The main problem is not the American Jewish Committee (AJC) which is a normal organization representing an ethnic minority, the Jews. http://www.ajc.org/

It is the unofficial front for the militarist-expansionist Israeli state known as the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) which is usurping Americans good will to extort as much cold hard cash and diplomatic priveleges and political promises and military support as it possibly can. http://www.aipac.org/

An examination of their websites clearly indicates that one (the AJC) is a community organization supporting the welfare of American Jews whilst the other (AIPAC) is a radical Zionist political organization promoting the welfare of the Israeli state regardless of the expense to the people of the USA and regardless of its support for terrorist activities and the persecution of minorities and its neighbours and threats of the use of nuclear WMD’s in the region.

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By cyrena, January 29, 2008 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

Furthermore, “Cyrena”, equating Zionism with racism, describing it as a threat to world peace, as an enemy of human rights and human dignity, and then urges its elimination, is blatantly anti-Semitic.
There can be no Israel without Zionism, and there can be self-determination for Jews without Israel.
To deny Jews this basic right, “Cyrena”, makes a mockery of everything you claim to stand for.
No need for the quotes around my name lil bastard. Here’s the deal. First, you misquoted me, because I actually equated Zionism with Nazism, since I’ve found many of the same ‘components’ in the furtherance of that particular ideology. So yes, racism is certainly one of them, but not the only one.

I don’t much give a shit what your ‘definition’ of Zionism is, since I don’t have any problem with any people or nation exercising there right to ‘self-determination’ except of course Israel does it at the expense of the rest of the world, but specifically at the expense of perpetrating terror and the grotesque violation of the human rights of the Palestinians, and anybody else who might dare to attempt to live as equal humans.

So no lil bastard, I’m not trying to deny the Jews a damn thing other than the ‘right’ they’ve taken for themselves, to perpetrate genocide and ethnic cleansing against another group of people. In short, it’s Nazism full blown. You DO remember when the Nazis perpetrated this same ideology against the Jews…right?

Well, Israel has practiced the same terror, calling it Zionism instead of Nazism. In principle AND it practice, it’s exactly the same thing, except of course Israel has been at it for a much longer time.

So, what did the world finally decide to do about Hitler and his Nazism. Humm…give that some thought.

Mass murders are mass murders lil bastard. It doesn’t matter to me what they call themselves, or where they operate from. Evil is evil, and it needs to be wiped out.

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By Maani, January 29, 2008 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena:

In my brief time here (LOL), I have noticed that Doug is actually quite rational about MOST things (though you seem to disagree with him about many of them…) - with the exception of Israel, with which he clearly has a (possibly obsessive and unhealthy) fixation.

I wonder what THAT’s about…?

Peace.

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By cyrena, January 29, 2008 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry,

I’m confused. Who is this referencing? Chalmers? Who suggested that they admired Ariel Sharon, the mass murderer? Maybe I missed something. I’ll keep looking down the thread.

Chalmers…rational? Yeah, I missed something….

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, January 29, 2008 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

Tony Wicher no president could start a war without a less than truthfull media remember WMD?Is it my so called paranoia that the mainstream media always seem to cast Israel in a favourable light,while everything about Islam is bad?

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By Ostrogoth, January 29, 2008 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Furthermore, “Cyrena”, equating Zionism with racism, describing it as a threat to world peace, as an enemy of human rights and human dignity, and then urges its elimination, is blatantly anti-Semitic. -lilmamzer, January 29 at 4:39 am

Again, the anti-Semitic smear against those who oppose racism and ethnic cleansing. This guy has no decency, pure and simple.

We shouldn’t tolerate lilmamzer’s smears and support for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians any more than we would tolerate someone coming on this forum calling for the enslavement of blacks, or the persecution of Jews. Defending free speech is fine but defending the rights of ethnic cleansers is where we should draw the line. Let’s not forget that Zionists have turned the West Bank and Gaza into massive ghettos for the purpose of persecuting Palestinians. Our tax dollars at work. All thanks to people like lilmamzer and those of us who let them get away with murder.

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By PatrickHenry, January 29, 2008 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

“As long as there are Jews living on God’s great Earth, Chalmers, they will live and work and pray for the safety and security and prosperity of their eternal homeland of Israel”.

You and your fellow Israelis are free to go fuck yourselves without my tax dollars.  When the unguided rockets of one of your victims comes crashing down on your head go to China or Turkey or another nation to whine for money and weapons.

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By PatrickHenry, January 29, 2008 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment

I think Chalmers is very rational.

As with alot of posters here at Truthdig we have our individual views, opinions and ideals that we bounce off each other in an attempt to get anothers perspective, like them or not.  Sometimes we are lucky enough to get yours, which makes us feel so much better about ourselves.

Because most of us are not part of the “overwhelming majority” you speak of that that support Israel (I find very few) and it’s foreign policy (even fewer) you state it is impossible to separate Israel from zionism, you should ask some of the million non jewish Israelis what they think, after all Israel is a democracy right?

As for you admitting your admiration for Ariel Sharon, a proven mass murderer and deserving war crimes nominee, you are no better than David Duke and his followers.

I hope to campaign with whoever becomes the mainstream candidate of choice from both parties to cut this albatross called Israel from our budget, curtail any outsourced contracts involving personal information (Amdocs, Infosys) and proscecute all “loyal Americans” who willingly pass classified information to that country.  Dual nationals should not be tolerated in our government from any country and all lobbies representing foreign nations should have to register as such - no exceptions -.

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Maani writes:

“What else, exactly, would you have me do?  Move to Israel and protest the government directly?  Take up arms and become part of the problem? “

Chalmers is fixated and obsessed; he appears trapped in his own personal Passion Play, an inner world reduced to simplistic extremes of Good and Evil, wherein the Jews (read: Zionists) represent the Evil, and Chalmers, as the lone voice of reason, representing the Good. His posts are his calls to action, his own spreading of the gospel (according to Chalmers, anyway).

I find the Chalmers phenomenon morbidly fascinating. I’ve just finished Ian McEwan’s “Enduring Love” (a great read, by the way), wherein the protagonanist’s world has been turned upside down by a stalker exhibiting the symptoms of de Clerambault’s Syndrome. This is a rare disorder in which a person holds a delusional belief that another person, usually of a higher social status, is in love with him or her, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

The key is delusional belief. In Chalmer’s world, Zionist control everything, and, simultaneously and quite illogically, don’t, but are desperately trying to. Look back and see his posts about Zionist attempts at world domination, and other such nonsense.

So, Maani, don’t take it so personally. Chalmers lashes out at you for expressing rational and reasoned points of views, which directly threaten his deluded world view, upon which he has staked his sense of self.

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By Maani, January 29, 2008 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

Doug:

Why would my questioning of your hyperbole about “nuclear war” be “pathetically weak??  It is merely an observation that you hurt your own “cause” by resorting to such extreme language: at the risk of REALLY pissing you off (LOL), it is of a piece with Bush’s comment about “the smoking gun” being “a mushroom cloud.”

You then say, “You call yourself a leftwing evangelist minister but, when it comes time for action, you are as hopeless as the rest. Merely all talk! I am disgusted with you…”

First, I’m not sure what my vocation has to do with all of this, but I think my position on the overall matter has been stated in my last couple of posts.

And at the risk of being seen to agree with Lilmanzer (LOL), what “action” are you referring to?  I oppose AIPAC’s influence on U.S. foreign policy toward Israel, and state so openly.  And I oppose the way in which the Israeli government has generally handled the Palestinian issue, and state this openly as well.  I speak with my political reps about the issue (not just write letters, but SPEAK to, since I know all but Clinton personally), so they are aware of my position as well.

What else, exactly, would you have me do?  Move to Israel and protest the government directly?  Take up arms and become part of the problem?

I’m not sure you have thought this out beyond your emotional investment in the issue.

You are, of course, entitled to be “disgusted” with me if you like.  But all you are doing is alienating allies; “cutting off your nose to spite your face.”  And that is NOT the way to win converts to your cause, or even get people to step back and listen to what you have to say, and perhaps at least modify theit own positions.

Peace.

Peace.

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

Chalmers writes:

“You call yourself a leftwing evangelist minister but, when it comes time for action, you are as hopeless as the rest. Merely all talk! I am disgusted with you…... “

And what is your “action plan”, Chalmers? Are you going to strap on a bomb vest and take out some Zionist schoolchildren on a bus in Israel? How about helping Hamas lob a few thousand more missiles at the homes of Ethiopian Jewish immigrants’ homes and schools in Sderot, Israel? That will teach those nasty Zionists a lesson, won’t it, Chalmers?

Will you spray automatic weapons fire at some Zionists on the streets of the United States?

Will you stalk Jews where they live, work, play, and organize?

What, exactly, are you going to do to combat the supposed menace you are so preoccupied with?

As long as there are Jews living on God’s great Earth, Chalmers, they will live and work and pray for the safety and security and prosperity of their eternal homeland of Israel.

What are you going to do about that?

You talk so tough to Maani here but you are a pussy, aren’t you?

Scared by Jews who dare to organize for their common defense, welfare, and destiny? They frighten you to your very core, don’t they? It shows with every hysterical, paranoid, and delusional post you make about the “Zionists seeking world domination”, as you have so often put it.

What are you going to do about them? ‘Cuz posting cut-and-paste wire service stories about AIPAC at <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig just doesn’t cut it, Chalmers. That’s just LAME.

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

Chalmers lives in a scary inner world where organized Jews control the affairs of the world.

Oh well…........

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

The AIPAC affair: Can the pro-Israel lobby recover?

As the American Israel Public Affairs Committee holds its annual policy conference this month, it can point with satisfaction to one of the closest relationships ever between the U.S. administration and the government of Israel.

This year has also seen the most perplexing development in the powerful pro-Israel lobby’s history: an FBI investigation into allegations that a Pentagon analyst passed classified information to Israel via AIPAC officials.

The closer Israel and Washington have grown on policy issues, the more vociferous the charges of Israel’s critics that the Jewish state and its American Jewish supporters exercise too much influence over U.S. decision-making.

*
FBI charges Pentagon analyst in AIPAC affair

WASHINGTON - Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin was formally charged Wednesday with passing classified military information about Iraq to two individuals, believed to be former officials of the pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC….....

*
FBI probe into AIPAC-related scandal - more Qs than As


WASHINGTON - More than a week after a Pentagon official was charged with passing secret information to two employees of Washington’s pro-Israel lobby, Jewish communal leaders are still puzzled about the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s probe into the scandal….....

*
Israeli linked to AIPAC probe to leave post

WASHINGTON - Naor Gilon, the head of the political department at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, whose name has been linked to the Pentagon analyst charged with passing classified information to unauthorized personnel, will leave his post during the summer….....

*
Analysis / AIPAC institutes its own `disengagement plan’

AIPAC officials would like to see the event as an unreserved show of support for the lobby and an indication that the crisis over the organization is now over. To this end, AIPAC had to institute its own kind of “disengagement plan” this week…..... By the time Rice steps onto the podium, they hope, AIPAC will have distanced itself from the affair….......

The two senior officials directly concerned with the Franklin affair - Rosen and Weissman - will have to pay the price by facing legal charges, possibly even indictments, analysts in Washington said yesterday, while the organization will emerge almost unscathed. But the price will be a heavy one. Rosen is not merely another AIPAC official; in the eyes of many, he is AIPAC itself….......

Rosen pushed not only for lobbying with Congressmen but also directly with the executive branch. His executive lobbying proved a success and Rosen was seen coming and going at the White House, State Department and Pentagon, advocating Israel’s case….......

The AIPAC-Franklin affair has now reached a decisive point. As an organization, AIPAC hopes it has cut out the cancer and can now recover and rebuild its connections…....... For the federal prosecutor, Attorney Paul McNulty, the time is approaching when the veil of secrecy over the affair must be lifted and its full scope made public….......

Was this a case of an Israeli mole in the Pentagon, a lobby that overstepped its authority, or a one-time act in which the lobby’s officials transferred forbidden information to Israeli representatives….....

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

“Methinks thou dost protest too much.” - #By Maani, January 29: “As for “nuclear war,” it pains me to say that this ranks up there with some of the hyperbole of which you occasionally accuse others…”

That is pathetically weak, Maani. Perhaps if you got up off yo’ass you wouldn’t be in so much pain, uhh!

You call yourself a leftwing evangelist minister but, when it comes time for action, you are as hopeless as the rest. Merely all talk! I am disgusted with you…...

Check my following post for new developments in the AIPAC scandal…......

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By Maani, January 29, 2008 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

Doug:

“Yes, it is a disappointment, Maani, and, as I first mentioned the “Israel” word, I guess I should be to blame. Still, the comments have gone to three pages now and that is what tends to happen in the end on most blogs.  They either die a natural death or become hopelessly side-tracked, uhh. That belies the fact, though, that there is an agenda concerning Israel which permeates and distorts American politics and also the politics of its allies (nowadays merely all puppets). The fact that that could bring us to the end of human civilization through a nuclear war is alarmingly significant.”

You know that I am in general agreement with you on most things.  But, to paraphrase Shakespeare, “Methinks thou dost protest too much.”

While it is true that the U.S. policy toward Israel is a piece of its foreign policy puzzle - and perhaps even one that looms overly large in that policy - it is by no means the single, driving force in U.S. foreign policy.  To suggest that it is is simply silly.

As for “nuclear war,” it pains me to say that this ranks up there with some of the hyperbole of which you occasionally accuse others.

I repeat that both the State of Israel and the displaced Palestinians are not going away, and neither has the right to demand otherwise.  And I add to this that ALL THREE Dem candidates support the right of Israel to exist and ALL THREE have pandered to AIPAC, but ALL THREE also agree on a two-state solution, if such can be agreed to and implemented.  In this regard, there is no SIGNIFICANT difference in their policies toward Israel.

With all the wonderful brainpower, creativity and geopolitical savvy of many of those on Truthdig, I continue to be saddened that you all continue to be combative, adversarial and personally insulting rather than putting those minds to good use by suggesting solutions, or at least trying to find common ground from which to search for those solutions.

Peace.

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

(1.) AIPAC Achievements:-   http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp

As America’s leading pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC works with both Democratic and Republican political leaders to enact public policy that strengthens the vital U.S.-Israel relationship. With the support of its members nationwide, AIPAC has worked with Congress and the Executive Branch on numerous critical initiatives—from securing vital foreign aid for Israel to stopping Iran’s illicit nuclear program.

Some highlights include:
Securing critical foreign aid to Israel, which totals $2.42 billion in 2008 and provides military aid and refugee assistance.

Strengthening U.S.-Israel energy cooperation by passing legislation that establishes a grant program that funds joint projects between U.S. and Israeli entities in the field of alternative energy.

Calling upon the administration in a letter signed by more than 180 members of the House to provide strict guarantees that the proposed sale of sophisticated technology to Saudi Arabia will not harm U.S. forces or undercut Israel’s qualitative military edge.

Strongly urging the administration to take its decision to designate Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a terrorist group and weapons proliferator through an amendment supported by 76 senators and key legislation passed in the House of Representatives.

Strengthening U.S.-Israel homeland security cooperation by passing landmark legislation creating an office within the Department of Homeland Security to support joint research and development projects between the United States and key allies such as Israel.

Calling for the strengthening of UNIFIL’s mandate to stop arms shipments to Hizballah across the Syrian border by supporting a letter signed by 104 House members.

Highlighting the need to stop weapons smuggling in Gaza through a letter signed by 32 senators urging the United States to press Egypt to take action.

Passing a House resolution congratulating Israel on the 40th anniversary of the Six-Day War, praising the Jewish state for reunifying Jerusalem and protecting religious freedom in the city, and calling on the president to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Reiterating standards for the Palestinian government through letters signed by 259 House members and 79 senators urging the EU and United States not to provide aid or grant recognition to any Palestinian government until it fulfills internationally backed requirements. 

Prohibiting U.S. aid and contacts with the Hamas-led PA until its leaders recognize Israel’s right to exist, renounce violence and ratify previous Israeli-Palestinian peace agreements.

Extending U.S.-backed loan guarantees to Israel until 2011 and renewing the authority to transfer U.S. military equipment to be stored in Israel for use in a potential crisis.

Ratifying an agreement that led to the Israeli medical service Magen David Adom’s admission to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement (IRC)..............

Cont./...........

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

....../Cont.

(2.) AIPAC Achievements:-   http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp Some highlights include:

Condemning Iran for holding a conference casting doubt on whether the Holocaust happened. The resolutions reproached the anti-Semitic statements made by Iranian leaders and asserted the United States’ commitment to preventing a nuclear Iran.

Passing the Iran Freedom Support Act, which renews and strengthens sanctions aimed at curtailing funds and international cooperation necessary for Iran to pursue nuclear weapons.

Passing the Iran Libya Sanctions Act, which seeks to reduce funds for Iran’s nuclear weapons program by allowing sanctions against foreign companies investing in Iran’s energy sector.

Reauthorizing the Iran Nonproliferation Act to include sanctions against entities providing technology to the missile and weapons of mass destruction programs of both Iran and Syria.

Fostering U.S.-Israel homeland security cooperation by supporting the countries’ efforts to sign a landmark Memorandum of Understanding and taking U.S. homeland security professionals on trips to Israel to meet with their Israeli counterparts.

Passing congressional resolutions that demonstrate overwhelming support for Israel’s right to self-defense in the face of attacks by Hizballah and Hamas.

Designating Hizballah’s TV station as a terrorist entity through legislative language as well as support of a letter to President Bush signed by 51 senators.

Passing the Syrian Accountability Act, which allows the president to sanction Syria for its continued involvement in Lebanon and support of terrorism.

Increasing military aid to Israel during the height of the Palestinian intifada by working for $1 billion in government grants that help cover the escalating costs of the war on terrorism.

Keeping world pressure on Hamas, by working to pass a House Resolution before PA elections that warned of serious policy implications for U.S.-Palestinian relations should Hamas be part of the Palestinian government.

*
PS - Don’t forget that HAMAS is the democratically-elected government of Palestine!!!!

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By cyrena, January 29, 2008 at 6:22 am Link to this comment

Ya know something lilmamzer?

Barack Obama has been to Israel ONE time, and that was in 2006. (my guess…they wouldn’t let him in before that).

And, he was there to look at that dreaded Apartheid wall. I’m not sure what he had to say about it, since I don’t trust anything the Israelis print in their newspapers, just like I don’t trust this.

I’d rather hear it from Senator Obama himself.

(and, I like the guy).

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

By lilmamzer, January 29: “the lilmamzers”..... So how many of me are there….. And please, enlighten us - what is AIPAC really up to…”

This is for that twit from TruthDig who is so loose with the smilies, uhh…....

AIPAC -  Pro-Israel Lobby working to strengthen relations between the United States and Israel through political and student activism in campaigns and elections, ...

For more than half a century, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee has worked to help make Israel more secure by ensuring that American support remains strong.  From a small pro-Israel public affairs boutique in the 1950s, AIPAC has grown into a 100,000-member national grassroots movement described by The New York Times as “the most important organization affecting America’s relationship with Israel….....
http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp

American Israel Public Affairs Committee:  Fortune magazine asked Congressmen to rank the “25 most powerful” lobbying organizations in DC. In 2005, the National Journal did the same. Both times, AIPAC came in 2nd - ahead of, for instance, the AFL-CIO and the National Rifle Association (NRA), but behind the AARP[4]. In 2001, it came in 4th on the Fortune list….... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee


Quote Haaretz - The AIPAC affair: Can the pro-Israel lobby recover:

As the American Israel Public Affairs Committee holds its annual policy conference this month, it can point with satisfaction to one of the closest relationships ever between the U.S. administration and the government of Israel. This year has also seen the most perplexing development in the powerful pro-Israel lobby’s history: an FBI investigation into allegations that a Pentagon analyst passed classified information to Israel via AIPAC officials.

The closer Israel and Washington have grown on policy issues, the more vociferous the charges of Israel’s critics that the Jewish state and its American Jewish supporters exercise too much influence over U.S. decision-making….... http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ArticleNews.jhtml?itemNo=576759&contrassID=13&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0

Cont./.........

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By cyrena, January 29, 2008 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

Dark Truths About the Israeli Occupation
By Daniel Levy, Washington Monthly. Posted January 29, 2008.


Can Israelis ever recover from the self-inflicted damage of becoming a brutal occupier?

Edith Zertal and Akiva Eldar end their exhaustive study of Israeli settlement policy with a poignant question: Is it possible, they wonder, that Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip will become a “first step in Israel’s journey of liberating itself from the enslavement to the territories that it occupied in 1967, and which have occupied [it] since then and have brought it to the verge of destruction”? Negotiations that have been set in motion by the Annapolis peace conference in November will likely provide a partial answer. Zertal, a leading Israeli historian, and Eldar, a chief political columnist and a former Washington correspondent for the Israeli daily Ha’aretz, have recently published Lords of the Land: The War for Israel’s Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007. It is a detailed history of Israel’s nearly forty-year occupation of Gaza and the West Bank with a painful contention at its core. The occupation, say Zertal and Eldar, has wounded Israel’s very psyche, damaging both its sense of self and its moral standing in the world. “The prolonged military occupation and the Jewish settlements that are perpetuating it have toppled Israeli governments,” write the authors, “and have brought Israel’s democracy and its political culture to the brink of an abyss.”

The rest at the link…
http://www.alternet.org/audits/75213/

On the headline question: Can Israelis ever recover from the self-inflicted damage of becoming a brutal occupier?

When will Americans ask themselves the same question? Can we ever recover from the SELF-INFLICTED damage of allowing ourselves to become occupied by a fascist regime, while at the same time becoming a brutal imperialist occupier in the Middle East?

Something to think about?

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

For your information, a basic definition:

Zionism is the movement for Jewish self-determination and asserts the inherent and internationally-acknowledged right of Israel to exist as the national homeland of the Jewish people.

Furthermore, “Cyrena”, equating Zionism with racism, describing it as a threat to world peace, as an enemy of human rights and human dignity, and then urges its elimination, is blatantly anti-Semitic.

There can be no Israel without Zionism, and there can be self-determination for Jews without Israel.

To deny Jews this basic right, “Cyrena”, makes a mockery of everything you claim to stand for.

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

from interview in The Jerusalem Post 01/28/08:

“The outlines of any agreement would involve ensuring that Israel remains a Jewish state,” Obama told The Jerusalem Post and other members of the Jewish and Israeli press on a conference call. He reiterated his support for a two-state solution, but said, “We cannot move forward until there is some confidence that the Palestinians are able to provide the security apparatus that would prevent constant attacks against Israel from taking place.”

======================================

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

“As you see, the lilmamzers will endlessly try to distort that by accusations of victimization and spouting secondary Israeli-Palestinian issues in order to avoid discussing what AIPAC is really up to”

So how many of me are there, Chalmers?

And please, enlighten us - what is AIPAC really up to? And you know this with authority because you:

a) attend AIPAC meetings to gain first-hand knowledge

b) know AIPAC staffers personally and receive briefings from them?

c) are an authority, with real-world credentials, on the Jewish community in America

d) none of the above
=======================

Hmmmm, that’s a toughie, Chalmers. smile

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By cyrena, January 29, 2008 at 4:56 am Link to this comment

We are so used to this from lilmamzer…everybody is an anti-semite, according to her/him/it.

Now of course the fact that Israel has been Nazi-like in their behavior, since their inception in 1948, (and before) has been acknowledged countless times, by the world, INCLUDING Jews. I’ve known many. Actually, I STILL know them. Because ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing…and anyone with eyes, ears and a functioning brain, can see that Israel has been practicing ethnic cleansing for 60 years.

What else can you call ethnic cleansing, besides ethnic cleansing? Genocide? Well, maybe that works too. Whatever you call it, it’s the exact same thing that the Nazis did to the Jews, so they’ve simply done the same thing to the Arabs, and even a retard could figure that out by now, because it’s been going on for so many years.

Meantime, lilmamzer has a really curious namesake, Someone (a linguistics professor) made mention of the fact that mamzer means bastard…I think it’s Hebrew.

No one knows why lil mamzer would refer to him/herself as a little bastard, but such as it seems to be.

So, maybe he/she is actually an Israeli outcast, since they have those complicated laws and such, regarding legitimacy as a Jew. If he or she is actually a little bastard, then that might be the deal, since previous comments lead us to believe that the little bastard actually lives in the US, and is apparently a US citizen, consistently shilling for Israel, and consistently defending all of their crimes against humanity.

It’s always been difficult for me to understand why such a lover of Israel, wouldn’t choose to live THERE, instead of here. Unless of course..their not allowed, because of being a little bastard.

It’s always been really odd.

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By lilmamzer, January 29, 2008 at 4:36 am Link to this comment

” “The last refuge of the incorrigible Jew-hater is the comaprison of Israel to Nazi Germany.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 10:55 pm

First, the David Duke smear. Now, the anti-Semite smear to try to put me on the defensive. I don’t hate Jews, I hate ethnic cleansers regardless of race or religion. Do you hate gentiles? Or just Arabs? Stick to the arguments, good buddy supporter of war crimes. Zionists should stop acting like Nazi racists in the West Bank if they don’t want to be compared to Nazi racists. “

Right on schedule.
=======================

” OK, lilmamzer, keep repeating the big lie, that doesn’t make it true. According to you, Palestinians are occupying the West Bank, and are ethnically cleansing the poor little Zionist settlers and IDF, who are just defending themselves. Wow.”

Lather. Rinse. Repeat: Ostrogoth The Bigot

You make me smile, dude.  smile

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 29, 2008 at 1:56 am Link to this comment

#By Maani, January 28: “It is interesting how this thread - “Yes, We Can” - has turned into a referendum on Israel, and the candidates’ positions thereon, and what those positions signify….  It is also interesting, and sad, how most (but not all) of the people on both sides are talking past each other, over each other, around each other, etc….. The bottom line is that wrongs are being done in both directions…”

Yes, it is a disappointment, Maani, and, as I first mentioned the “Israel” word, I guess I should be to blame. Still, the comments have gone to three pages now and that is what tends to happen in the end on most blogs. They either die a natural death or become hopelessly side-tracked, uhh.

That belies the fact, though, that there is an agenda concerning Israel which permeates and distorts American politics and also the politics of its allies (nowadays merely all puppets). The fact that that could bring us to the end of human civilization through a nuclear war is alarmingly significant.

More to the point is what Obama and the rest are doing or saying about that. That was what I put forward to discuss in the broader context of this topic. As you see, the lilmamzers will endlessly try to distort that by accusations of victimization and spouting secondary Israeli-Palestinian issues in order to avoid discussing what AIPAC is really up to.

But, to answer your main point, Maani, I simply quote Diana’s comments about the original topic with which I agree:-


By Diana, January 28: “To quote Truthdig: “What we do know is that Obama has made Hillary Clinton’s contention that words don’t matter seem so very small and suspect.”

To quote Hillary Clinton in The New Yorker, January 28, 2008:  “So, yes, words are critically important, but they’re not enough.  You have to act.  In my own experience, sometimes it’s putting one foot in front of the other day after day.”

So, yes, Truthdig, continue to inflate Obama and deflate Hillary.  But don’t bury the truth (and context) in the process….”

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By Tony Wicher, January 29, 2008 at 1:07 am Link to this comment

You mean I’ll join you in your paranoid delusions.

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By Ostrogoth, January 29, 2008 at 12:56 am Link to this comment

“Well, the ‘Palestinian’ Arabs ARE, in fact, ‘occupying’ territory there, just as Jews are.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 10:55 pm

OK, lilmamzer, keep repeating the big lie, that doesn’t make it true. According to you, Palestinians are occupying the West Bank, and are ethnically cleansing the poor little Zionist settlers and IDF, who are just defending themselves. Wow.

“The last refuge of the incorrigible Jew-hater is the comaprison of Israel to Nazi Germany.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 10:55 pm

First, the David Duke smear. Now, the anti-Semite smear to try to put me on the defensive. I don’t hate Jews, I hate ethnic cleansers regardless of race or religion. Do you hate gentiles? Or just Arabs? Stick to the arguments, good buddy supporter of war crimes. Zionists should stop acting like Nazi racists in the West Bank if they don’t want to be compared to Nazi racists.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

“Lilmamzer, you refuse to denounce Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians because you believe Zionists have a Biblical right to those lands.”

You can’t properly frame an argument by putting words in the mouth of your interlocutor, Ostrogoth. Besides being intellectually dishonest (I never said Zionists [Jews?] have a Biblical right to those lands, now, did I?), it’s transparently phony. Challenge me on what I actually write, not what you pretend I write.
====================

“Religious beliefs don’t justify aggression and ethnic cleansing.”

No they certainly don’t. So when are you going to use that fine moral argument against Hamas and the other “Palestinian” Arab terror groups who put that ethos into practice every day as a matter of policy? Hmmmm?
=====================

“ You deliberately invert the truth when you argue that Palestinians are occupying the West Bank and ethnically cleansing the Zionists there.”

Well, the “Palestinian” Arabs ARE, in fact, “occupying” territory there, just as Jews are. The Jews came to live there by LEGAL means. Can you say as much for those Arabs? You know nothing of the policy of the so-called Palestinian Authority regarding Jews living in Judea and Samaria. If you did, you would not have made such a specious statement, unless of course you know it to be demonstrably false (which it is) but prefer to ignore that reality - such is your hatred of Jewish presence in their own land.
========================

“Religious beliefs are no defense to war crimes, any more than the Nazis could justify persecution of Jews because they believed Jews were engaged in a secret conspiracy to rule Germany.”

The last refuge of the incorrigible Jew-hater is the comaprison of Israel to Nazi Germany. And there you have it.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

” Lilmamzer, you refuse to denounce Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians because you believe Zionists have a Biblical right to those lands.”

You can’t properly frame an argument by putting words in the mouth of your interlocutor, Ostrogoth. Besides being intellectually dishonest (I never said Zionists [Jews?] have a Biblical right to those lands, now, did I?), it’s transparently phony. Challenge me on what I actually write, not what you pretend I write.
====================

“Religious beliefs don’t justify aggression and ethnic cleansing.”

No they certainly don’t. So when are you going to use that fine moral argument against Hamas and the other “Palestinian” Arab terror groups who put that ethos into practice every day as a matter of policy? Hmmmm?
=====================

” You deliberately invert the truth when you argue that Palestinians are occupying the West Bank and ethnically cleansing the Zionists there.”</b>

Well, the “Palestinian” Arabs ARE, in fact, “occupying” territory there, just as Jews are. The Jews came to live there by LEGAL means. Can you say as much for those Arabs? You know nothing of the policy of the so-called Palestinian Authority regarding Jews living in Judea and Samaria. If you did, you would not have made such a specious statement, unless of course you know it to be demonstrably false (which it is) but prefer to ignore that reality - such is your hatred of Jewish presence in their own land.
========================

<i>“Religious beliefs are no defense to war crimes, any more than the Nazis could justify persecution of Jews because they believed Jews were engaged in a secret conspiracy to rule Germany.”

The last refuge of the incorrigible Jew-hater is the comaprison of Israel to Nazi Germany. And there you have it.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

“This person calls EVERYBODY a bigot”

Everybody? Hardly. Only those for whom the term is warranted. You, Cyrena, are so unable to control your bombast and hyperbole that that the words you post have lost most of their meaning. You know I’m not the first nor will I be the last to tell you this. Unfortunately, <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig has a core group of actual bigots. If you are unwilling or unable to see that, well, shame on you.

By the way, Obama has done a nice job of articulating and promoting the essence of Zionism when he defends the right of Israel to remain free and sovereign as the national homeland of the Jewish people (and that IS what Zionism is all about, despite what you and others may say).

So it gives me no small pleasure to watch you and your bigoted bobbleheads rail about Zionism and still support Obama.

Oh, the delicious irony. You should see the smile on my face right now. A million-dollar smile, I’m tellin ya.

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

Diana,

There’s definitely something to be said for what Hillary said, about putting one foot in front of the other, day after day.

OH YES!! Amen to that. I can say that, because it has become one HELL of an effort, for far, far, too many of us, when in fact it shouldn’t be that damn hard.

So guess what? THOSE are JUST WORDS, unless one can really and truly do it. And, it gets more and more difficult, every single solitary day that we try. So many folks have given up. They simply cannot do it any more.

So, is there anything in these WORDS from Hillary, (since we pretty much ALREADY KNOW the difficulties of this putting one foot in front of the other every day) that can convince US that SHE can DO something, (besides just saying this shit that we already live right now) to make us believe that she can do something to make that a bit easier, or at least more efficient, or more productive?

I ask because both of you are correct in that ‘words’ don’t mean much without any action. Where is hers? I keep asking that, but nobody has been able to point to a single thing that tells me anything she’s done, that would allow me to think that this effort may produce something, because I don’t mind putting that one foot in front of the other, and I’m generally pretty grateful that I can. BUT…where the hell am I gonna wind up in that effort? Now I’m doing the one foot in front of the other, because it’s the only way I can get from point A to point B. I can no longer afford a motor vehicle or the gas to fuel it.
So, I’m down to counting on putting that one foot in front of the other. Can Hillary lead me to someplace productive in that effort, or is it just WORDS?

Here again, my eyes and ears are wide open, for anything positive that she might be able to put forth, or otherwise inspire me with. I’ll be sure to stay that way…eyes and ears wide open, and putting these feet in front of each other. Let me know when she says or does something like what I’ve described here..like where she’s going to lead in that effort.

And, while we’re keeping things truthful, and in context, maybe you can contribute. I don’t see that Truthdig (maybe the posters, but not the editors) are ‘deflating’ or ‘inflating’ anybody. They are posting political news and opinion. The candidates inflate or deflate THEMSELVES, depending on what they SAY and what they DO. The media puts that out there, and the rest of us can decide. So, a critical observer can and should decide these things on their own, as long as the media is actually putting the candidates’ actual words and actions in view.

So, did he or she SAY this or that? Did he or she DO this or that? It is to THAT - that responsible citizens look. I don’t make my own judgments or opinions based on what the media or anybody else tells me. I make them based on what the candidates themselves put forth, the good as well as the bad, as well as the nothing. And, I believe that MOST responsible citizens do the same.

So, if you or anybody else, on any of these boards, wants to persuade us to look at YOUR candidate, and consider what she or he has to offer, than put something out there!!! What has Hillary done, what decision has she made, what ANYTHING should we consider, in your recommendation? (besides the putting one foot in front of the other part, since I already know how to do that, and I’m mostly just concerned with how much longer I’ll be able to).

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By Ostrogoth, January 28, 2008 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

“It’s the Arabs who want Judea and Samaria cleansed of all Jews, dude. And that’s ethnic cleansing.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 5:40 pm

Lilmamzer, you refuse to denounce Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians because you believe Zionists have a Biblical right to those lands. Religious beliefs don’t justify aggression and ethnic cleansing.

You deliberately invert the truth when you argue that Palestinians are occupying the West Bank and ethnically cleansing the Zionists there. You support war crimes and crimes against humanity as long as they’re perpetrated by Zionists. Religious beliefs are no defense to war crimes, any more than the Nazis could justify persecution of Jews because they believed Jews were engaged in a secret conspiracy to rule Germany.

(Cyrena, thanks for the advice to ignore lilmamzer, but no one should be allowed to support ethnic cleansing without being challenged. There are too many lives at stake.)

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

Ostrogoth…

Any communication with lil mamzer is a total waste of your energy.

This person calls EVERYBODY a bigot, and attempts to smear EVERYBODY as such. It’s easy enough to get sucked in, until you read enough of the same old shit that we’ve been hearing from him/her/it for over a year.

So, blow him/her/it off, and eventually he/she/it will go away for a while. Never for long enough, but from time to time, we do get a break.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, January 28, 2008 at 10:30 pm Link to this comment

Mangy to Tony Wicher just keep on dreaming.If you really believe that any American president is anything more than a puppet for Israel you truly are a dreamer,maybe one day you will wake up to reality.

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By Diana, January 28, 2008 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To quote Truthdig: “What we do know is that Obama has made Hillary Clinton’s contention that words don’t matter seem so very small and suspect.”

To quote Hillary Clinton in The New Yorker, January 28, 2008:  “So, yes, words are critically important, but they’re not enough.  You have to act.  In my own experience, sometimes it’s putting one foot in front of the other day after day.”

So, yes, Truthdig, continue to inflate Obama and deflate Hillary.  But don’t bury the truth (and context) in the process.

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By Maani, January 28, 2008 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

It is interesting how this thread - “Yes, We Can” - has turned into a referendum on Israel, and the candidates’ positions thereon, and what those positions signify.

It is also interesting, and sad, how most (but not all) of the people on both sides are talking past each other, over each other, around each other, etc.

The bottom line is that wrongs are being done in both directions: Israel against Palestinians, and Palestinians against Israel.  Slights both real and perceived are being used to justify violence in both directions.  Innocents are dying on both sides.

There is plenty of blame to go around.  Whether “legitimate” or not, the State of Israel is not going away, nor do the Palestinians or the various Arab nations have a right to demand that.  As well, the millions of displaced Palestinians are not going away, and have an absolute right to a “homeland” of their own, not under Israeli rule, control or other aegis.

What has not been mentioned in all of the understandable emotional back-and-forth is that, as with most conflicts of this type, it is mostly the extremists on either side who are “dictating the discussion,” through violence.  Yet there are alot of progressives on BOTH sides who are trying to find a reasonable, workable way out of this mess.

Let’s stop with the epithets, name-calling, etc.  It only makes alot of you look like the extremist Palestinians and Israelis who are only making the mess worse by being unproductive.

Peace.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

“Your sorrow for the suffering of little children would be believable if you had the compassion to extend it to all the innocents.”

I have written nothing on these pages (or anywhere) to suggest that I have no compassion for any innocents, regardless of their identity. That baseless charge coupled with your evasion of my direct challenge to you is proof enough of your moral blindness. What’s funny in this context is your truly appalling and unwarranted tone of condescension.
================

“Perhaps the sorrow you have translated to such blind hatred is really just a reflection of your sorrow for you.”

“Sorrow translated to such blind hatred”? That’s not even coherent, Louise.

I see you are choking on your own hatred, since you are unable to acknowlege, unequivocally, the genocidal atrocities against the Jews, committed over and over again, as a matter of policy by the “Palestinian” Arabs. And that’s pathetic.
===================

“Perhaps the sorrow you have translated to such blind hatred is really just a reflection of your sorrow for you.”

What does that mean???

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By Louise, January 28, 2008 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

I am truly sorry my gentle effort to tell you off went right over your head. So let me condense:

“Whatever it is, the huge chip they carry on their respective shoulders has grown so big and so cumbersome it blocks out the light, chokes off oxygen to the brain and if it keeps growing, may very well break the head from the neck!”

Your sorrow for the suffering of little children would be believable if you had the compassion to extend it to all the innocents.

Perhaps the sorrow you have translated to such blind hatred is really just a reflection of your sorrow for you.

Perhaps the name you have given yourself says it all.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

” Lilmamzer, don’t start with the red herrings. I don’t support ethnic cleansing of anybody, by anybody. Unlike you.

There you go again - hurl your absurd charges. I ask you again - when did I ever “support ethnic cleansing”?
====================

” If you’re willing to join us in denouncing Zionist ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, then maybe you’re not a racist bigot after all.”

A Stalinist apparatchik couldn’t have spoken the party line any better than you did right there.

“Join us in denouncing…then maybe…”  - LMFAO - right, just play ball and toe the party line… smile

It’s the Arabs who want Judea and Samaria cleansed of all Jews, dude. And that’s ethnic cleansing.

After all, there are about a million Arabs living in Israel right now, but the Arab demand (and yours, too) is for no Jews living in the ancestral and historic Jewish homelands. That’s ethnic cleansing. And it’s immoral.

Your double-speak is truly Orwellian, and your choice of words Stalinist in the classic sense.

You are a bigot and nothing you have said suggests otherwise. In fact, it only confirms what is plainly evident.

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By Tony Wicher, January 28, 2008 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment

Re THE MANGEMEISTER, January 27 at 8:26 pm #

“Those of you who still believe that any president will bring about any real change are only fooling yourselves.Obama’s “Yes We Can” is no match for the AIPAC and their ilk,and in particular the Zionist controlled media.”
—————————————————————————-
Oh, please, Mangey - you think superjews control everything? Well, you’re wrong. These Zionists are not so tough as all that. They are imperialist lackeys and basically scared to death, which accounts for their behavior more than anything else. 

Maybe all it takes to beat them is one honest president to tell the truth to the people.

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By PatrickHenry, January 28, 2008 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

Two birds with one post, not bad.

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By Ostrogoth, January 28, 2008 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

“Do you support Arab ethnic cleansing of Jews? Where is your outrage against that?” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 10:22 am

Lilmamzer, don’t start with the red herrings. I don’t support ethnic cleansing of anybody, by anybody. Unlike you.

“Where do I advocate ‘ethnic cleansing’”? -lilmamzer, January 28 at 10:22 am

If you’re willing to join us in denouncing Zionist ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, then maybe you’re not a racist bigot after all. But stop calling me a bigot and trying to smear me because I oppose racism and ethnic cleansing.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

By Louise, January 28 at 2:49 pm

Re: Re: bigoted nonsense?

“But there are far more who really want the ship of state to keep sinking! That’s hard to understand, really hard. But even harder to understand are people who cheer them on. What do we call that, the ultimate self deprecation? Or is it simple stupidity?”

“Whatever it is, the huge chip they carry on their respective shoulders has grown so big and so cumbersome it blocks out the light, chokes off oxygen to the brain and if it keeps growing, may very well break the head from the neck!”

***

“They” are those who have eyes to see, ears to hear, sense to feel and minds to understand. Which may add to your confusion.

Sorry about that. I really cant help you.

Knew it - I put a very simple question to you - followed by your chance to come clean and embrace a fundamental fairness:

Are the “they” you refer to the Arab terrorists who no longer have free and easy access to slaughter Israeli kids on busses and pizza parlors because of the security barrier?

You see, those Israeli kids deserve justice as much as any other, and that includes the right not to be blown to bits because they, well, exist.

Deny them that and there can be no justice.

It’s not a zero-sum game, Louise. Ramble on about the plight of the “Palestinian"Arabs, but without equal condemnation of the atrocities committed by them and in their name, your arguments ring especially hollow and false.

....and I could see your evasive and incoherent reply coming.

Too bad for you, Louise - it makes you look insincere and phony. Are you?

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

” Lilmamzer, I bet your an admirer of Ariel Sharon too.”

Yes, I certainly am, and very proudly so.

And congratulations to you. You seem to have moved on to yet another mean-spirited crusade - to smear John McCain - and you’re off to a good start.

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By DennisD, January 28, 2008 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Inspiration” alone won’t get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, significantly reduce the national debt, reduce our dependence on oil,  create new high paying jobs, eliminate NAFTA, CAFTA and the like or put the criminals on Wall St. and in Washington D.C. in jail just to name a few.

Obama and Hillary have one thing in common - they are both media creations with no real qualifications between them, never mind individually, to run a country. If that judgment sounds harsh, just think of the current fool on the hill who was “elected” with those very same qualifications and where we are now because of it.

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By Maani, January 28, 2008 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

Mike:

No, he didn’t.  But he did vote to continue funding it…

Peace.

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By Louise, January 28, 2008 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

“But there are far more who really want the ship of state to keep sinking! That’s hard to understand, really hard. But even harder to understand are people who cheer them on. What do we call that, the ultimate self deprecation? Or is it simple stupidity?”

“Whatever it is, the huge chip they carry on their respective shoulders has grown so big and so cumbersome it blocks out the light, chokes off oxygen to the brain and if it keeps growing, may very well break the head from the neck!”

***

“They” are those who have eyes to see, ears to hear, sense to feel and minds to understand. Which may add to your confusion.

Sorry about that. I really cant help you.

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By PatrickHenry, January 28, 2008 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

I posted this previous.

John McCain was the primary opposition to the Senate Select Committee on POWs. He bitterly opposed any attempt to rescue any other POWs. This is very strange since John McCain was himself, a POW.

The POWs that might have been rescued, would have been able to give testimony about the 32 propaganda tapes that John McCain made for the communists, while in Viet Nam. The 32 propaganda tapes are still “classified” so that no one can see them. 

Vietnam Veterans call John McCain a collaborator John McCain says that he would keep our soldiers in Iraq for 100 years. Would he also leave any prisoners there for the rest of their lives? 

McCain was bombing women in a lightbulb factory (according to Newsweek) when shot down in North Vietnam.  He has never failed to defend any illegal or violent war in which the US leaders involved the citizens.

McCain has the support of Henry Kissinger (indicted in Belgium for war crimes), of Joe Lieberman, neocon rejected by Democrats in Connecticut, and other war profiteers.

The McCain Feingold bill made it possible for war profiteers to run nonstop swift boat attack ads ... a campaign to help in Bush’s illegal installation in the White House.

McCain approves the Bush tax cuts for the rich which in combination with the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos have caused trillions in deficit.

Lilmamzer, I bet your an admirer of Ariel Sharon too.

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By PatrickHenry, January 28, 2008 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment

The Palistinians have the right to defend their homes against the overkill of Israel.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment

“Which leaves one kinda baffled when they see that wall ...”

Are the “they” you refer to the Arab terrorists who no longer have free and easy access to slaughter Israeli kids on busses and pizza parlors because of the security barrier?

You see, those Israeli kids deserve justice as much as any other, and that includes the right not to be blown to bits because they, well, exist.

Deny them that and there can be no justice.

It’s not a zero-sum game, Louise. Ramble on about the plight of the “Palestinian"Arabs, but without equal condemnation of the atrocities committed by them and in their name, your arguments ring especially hollow and false.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

“Israel has the right to respond”

Of course she does. And Obama is right to say so.

Is your moral universe one in which Jews must accept the slaughter of their children and be denied the right to defend themselves?

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By PatrickHenry, January 28, 2008 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

I see you’ve been reading your newspaper, read the responses to the article.

http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=826

McCain is an suck ass toad of Israel.

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By Aegrus, January 28, 2008 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton and John Edwards’ supporters, you have my respect for manning sinking ships for the last year. Do grab a life saver from the SS Barack Obama All-Inclusive, hope support and pragmatic doctrine express! Hope floats.

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By Louise, January 28, 2008 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

We do have a handful [small handful] of folks in congress who are trying to right this sinking ship. They need to be identified, and they need our support! So get on it!

But there are far more who really want the ship of state to keep sinking! That’s hard to understand, really hard. But even harder to understand are people who cheer them on. What do we call that, the ultimate self deprecation? Or is it simple stupidity?

Whatever it is, the huge chip they carry on their respective shoulders has grown so big and so cumbersome it blocks out the light, chokes off oxygen to the brain and if it keeps growing, may very well break the head from the neck!

We need to vote out every member of congress who has supported the policy of the Bush administration, and sorry that includes Hillary. She may be a woman, but when it comes to the Bush war-related assault on our economy, our military, and the people in the Middle East who never did anything to us, she often sounds like a “yes-man.” And I know she has done good works. And I know she has worked hard in the past to push good legislation, but it’s those endless votes supporting the Bush agenda that speak the loudest!

The perfect candidate would be someone who doesn’t see gender or color only quality. Who knows the constitution backwards and forwards. Who served with honor in the military. Has managed to run a successful small business employing people. Paying them a fair wage for honest work. Giving them the same loyalty expected from them. Making sure they have insurance and days off in time of crisis. And determined to keep profit margin at less than 4%. Goes to Church when someone gets born, or dies. Doesn’t care whether or not anyone else does. Pays taxes on time. Abhors war. Would chew on raw snails before telling a deliberate lie. Cries when someone else gets hurt ... even someone they may not like. Helps neighbors, [near and far] careful to not let anyone know who, or how. Loves the kids, the spouse and most of all themselves. And wouldn’t be a politician if you paid him/her too. Because along with all the qualities we all think we want our political leaders to have goes smarts!  Avoiding entanglements that could lead to commitment that would require compromise and eventually lying, to oneself, or to the person who gave them their trust. That “perfect” candidate will never go there!

So, having said all that I think the best choice we can make is the candidate who has the LEAST experience in Washington D.C. Because that’s where the cesspool bubbles away!

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By Louise, January 28, 2008 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

“Justice can never be just unless it is applied equally and fairly. You should keep that in mind before casually throwing around accusations of supporting “ethnic cleansing” and similar bigoted nonsense.”

Boy oh boy, that is so right! The part about “Justice can never be just unless it is applied equally and fairly” I mean. Which leaves one kinda baffled when they see that wall ...

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

“the Zionist controlled media”

LMFAO

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

“Hillary fills that spot. (and John McCain gets the nod too.)

Not Obama, Not Romney, Not Edwards, Not Huckabee and not even Ron Paul. “

Not even Ron Paul? Especially not Ron Paul.

But I agree with you about McCain. Of the remaining contenders on both sides, he is the most seasoned and pragmatic indivudual with national security bona fides none of the others can match. At this point I’m hoping he wins the nomination.

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By Sue Cook, January 28, 2008 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

And she will!
Hillary is one tough cookie, she represents years of knowledge and loads of experience. She don’t have quite the oratorical skills as Barack, but her message is clear on why she wants to be president.
Because she can!  She’s very smart, brilliant really.

Barack can talk with charm, and who that listens can’t help but agree that he can be very inspiring, and convincing a candidate. I have to admit that I like him for that too, but I still have doubts about where all that fancy talk will go if he does become the nominee for president.  Will he get by the worse trial of the republican side with it?
How about as president?, Will he be able to sweet talk his way out of the the war and be tough enough to make the right decisions responsibly and hold on to this God-like image people perceive of him?

In a perfect world, Id say go get-em Barack, but we all know, Bush is not leaving office with this world in a safe secure bubble, so my opinion and answer to above question is, no.  I want someone who can lead from day one, and I will feel more secure and safe knowing someone even though they don’t speak eloquently can and will handle current situatons with hard core knowledge and expertise.

Hillary fills that spot. (and John McCain gets the nod too.)

Not Obama, Not Romney, Not Edwards, Not Huckabee and not even Ron Paul.

Vote with you heart and mind, don’t let the media sway you one way or the other.

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By truthdweller, January 28, 2008 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

Jackpine Savage,

I really do appreciate this overactive brain of yours…

I also appreciate your recognition of the fact that Obama’s strength is in organizing the people that do or at least MIGHT have the answers.

In MY overactive mind, THAT has always been the thing that I’ve considered, because I’ve NEVER expected one person or even one small group of persons, to have all of the answers, or all of the solutions. I don’t believe that our original form of government was set up with that in mind.

Something you mentioned about our ‘competitive spirit’, or maybe our ‘competitive’ nature…that’s basis for a philo-political thought of my own…I’ve pondered it a great deal…this need to ‘win’ since it seems to have been the only game in town, and for far too long. (you mentioned that). And, is that not the antithesis of what we consider to be compromise and/or consensus? In short, can the two concepts really exist? I think not.

I also don’t think that the compromise is nearly as ‘necessary’ as we make it out to be. Of course it’s important in many circumstances. BUT, my experience has been that once people actually attempt to reach a consensus, based on the issues that they REALLY DO CARE ABOUT, rather than just ‘winning’, there isn’t even as much ‘compromise’ or ‘sacrifice’ involved as we might think.

In other words, if we stop to consider what we are ‘competing for’ (besides just ‘winning’ for the sake of ‘winning’) it often works out that everybody can have more of what they want. The issue seems to be deciding what it is that we actually want. Or, do we really WANT whatever it is, or do we just NOT want anybody else to have it?

Just another random thought.

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By Maani, January 28, 2008 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

J.S.:

This is a very good assessment.  I would like to add a related sidebar.

The other day, someone asked me why, if I believe that (i) the “NWO” (whatever one conceives it to be) “controls” candidate selection (accompanied by the complicit media), and (ii) the political system is hopelessly broken, I bother to support ANY candidate over another, since ALL of them are, to varying degrees, members of the power elite, compromised by lobby/industry/business money, “corporately-owned,” etc.  What I answered was that, even given the above, one should support the candidate who is most likely to effect at least SOME changes “for the people” - however minimal - toward a broader change in the structure of the system.

This is accomplished in two ways.  As you note, one is through “organization” and “anti-competitiveness,” and through bringing more people into the process - creating a larger group of “educated” voters.  And I would agree that Obama seems to be amazingly good at this type of rallying, etc., and is the better candidate in this regard. The other is through the actual ability (and willingness, of course) of candidates to MAKE those “minor” (and hopefully more than minor) changes within the system as it currently exists.  And I believe Hillary is the better candidate in this second regard.  (Though I realize many will disagree with me.)

What you have effectively suggested is that if there were a candidate with a combination of Obama’s near-unique ability to inspire, and get people interested in the process, and Hillary’s greater depth of experience, including working with Congress, foreign affairs, etc., and her mastery of detail, we would have a truly extraordinary candidate.

It is therefore a shame that Hillary and Obama have grown so personally distant (which can be blamed on BOTH of them).  Otherwise a Hillary-Obama ticket - allowing Hillary to prove herself while Obama “shines” as VP and gains experience, and then allowing Obama to govern for eight years - would truly be a “dream ticket.”

Peace.

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By chabuka, January 28, 2008 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am not sold…Obama panders to Israel and AIPAC, “Israel has the right to respond”, says “our” Obama. Will we be protecting Israel again, at our expense, in blood and money under “President Obama”?  Why does Barack Obama believe that Bush/Cheney should not be held accountable, or at the very least, impeachment hearings? The laws of this land don’t seem to matter to this ambitious young man..or Hillary Clinton either for that matter…do they see an advantage for themselves if they ignore the Constitution and the Laws, like Bush has…? I am finding it extremely difficult to consider voting for any of these Presidential Candidates (on either party) or those in Congress who would give such a criminal, even treasonous administration, amnesty !!

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By Chiwale, January 28, 2008 at 11:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jackpine, whilst I would somewhat differ in opinion, I do understand where you’re coming from. Especially given the incompetence of this government, makes it hard to decipher what and what’s not good in a candidate.
As for candidates already spelling out exact details in whatever plan they have such as healthcare, I would say “The Devil’s in the details”. And what I mean by this is that Universal Healthcare cannot be born unless this govt has sole ownership of it - something that the federal govt wants no part of. The plans of Hilary and John Edwards detailing such plans eliminate one glaring reality. And that is “what makes Clinton and Edwards think that pharmaceuticals and HMO’s are just going to lie down and happily hand over power to them”. Are they nuts!!!! there is no way they will relinquish such power. Clinton and Edwards plan does not take into consideration how they will negotiate with the powers that be. and herein lies the problem. Obama does not advocate universal healthcare because he knows these plans will not work unless there is mutual consent between the powers and the politicians. and this is the conventional wisdom.
The good thing about Obama is that he does not profess to have the solution, and this is what makes him much more attractive than the rest of the candidates.
I am casting my vote for Obama because in order to change washington, you have to negotiate “away” the gridlock that has affected each and every american since the bush administration came to power.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

“Again, I don’t support Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. You do. “

Do you support Arab ethnic cleansing of Jews? Where is your outrage against that?

Where do I advocate “ethnic cleansing”?

FYI: A “Palestinian” is a Jew from Israel. The local “Palestinian” Arabs are ethnically Arabians, Egyptians, and Syrians, who take their name from that given to the Jewish national homeland by the Romans 2,000 years ago in a failed attempt to erase the Jewish national identity during the Roman occupation.

You will find that inasmuch as Barack Obama recognizes the right of Israel to defend herself as the free and independent national Jewish sovereign homeland, and has so publicly stated many times, he has expressed the core idea of Zionism. And while I disagree with him on several major policy issues, I feel confident enough that on this issue, at least, he speaks from the heart (supporting Zionism, is after all, to be insupport of self-determination and national liberation - both core principles of a good small “D” democrat).

Justice can never be just unless it is applied equally and fairly. You should keep that in mind before casually throwing around accusations of supporting “ethnic cleansing” and similar bigoted nonsense.

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By jackpine savage, January 28, 2008 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

As many people, i have been fairly troubled by Sen Obama’s lack of substance.  Having an overactive brain, i’ve been spending some time on this subject.

Perhaps we need to keep in mind that our idea of a political leader may not be the ideal political leader.  I am impressed by a candidate who spells out the details of policy; on the other hand, my cynicism/realism forces me to accept that they will be unlikely to actually implement the policy, especially in exact form.

And i’m troubled by anyone who believes that they have THE answer, or even the best answer.  Good problem solving doesn’t work like that, and it often leads to the “my way or the highway” attitude.

I am still not an Obama supporter.  But i think that i finally understand where he is coming from.  He doesn’t claim to have the answers; he claims to have the ability to organize the people who have answers and/or a stake in the issues and answers.

Maybe, after nearly two decades of partisan strife, it behooves us to reexamine our fundamental assumptions about what makes a good politician.  So far, the attempt to “win” has not worked out so well for this nation…beyond appealing to our competitive spirit.  Our system of government is based on compromise and consensus: the opposite of how our politics currently operates.  No wonder the system is dysfunctional.

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By Ostrogoth, January 28, 2008 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

“You should actually read what David Duke says - what you have written here is exactly his rhetoric.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 4:59 am

Wow.

All I know about David Duke is that he’s a racist supremacist like you. It would surprise me if David Duke opposes Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but if he does, according to your reasoning, every one who opposes Zionist ethnic cleansing is also a Nazi. Your attempted smears make zero sense and deserve zero respect.

“Carry on, bigot, carry on.” -lilmamzer, January 28 at 4:52 am

Again, I don’t support Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. You do. That makes you the bigot, good buddy, and a persistent one.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

“IMPORTANT: Even if you have already given the legal limit to the Kucinich presidential campaign, you can donate up to another $2,300 to his Congressional campaign above now.”

Please, spend your money on Kucinich’s campaign. I can’t think of a better way for you to spend your money.

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By Louise, January 28, 2008 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

Thanks cyrena!

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By thebeerdoctor, January 28, 2008 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

To say: “he’s been heard, believe me, his voice HAS been heard.” And “has been rejected by the vast majority, for good reasons.” Is to completely deny the fact that the candidate was systematically kept out of the debates, starting in Iowa. So how can a vast majority reject someone they never saw?
To defend this corporate subterfuge is a cowardly act.
Get used to it.

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

” Lilmamzer, this thread was interesting until you started spreading your venom around. Obama, like almost every other U.S. politician, is afraid of the powerful, fanatical racists at AIPAC. He supports Israeli ethnic cleansers for reasons of political expedience, not out of conviction. I mean hey, Obama’s no racist. Unlike you.”

Wow.

How very “progressive” of you to want to silence an opposing point of view. Not surprising given the extreme hostility your words project. Keep it up - it’s actually a good thing. Can you guess why?

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

You should actually read what David Duke says - what you have written here is exactly his rhetoric.

And no matter how much you smear Israel and her legitimacy as a nation among nations, you will not succeed.

Carry on, bigot, carry on. smile

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By lilmamzer, January 28, 2008 at 5:46 am Link to this comment

“They desperate to shut him up.”

He’s been heard, believe me, his voice HAS been heard.

It’s just that his message has been rejected by the vast majority, for good reasons.

Get used to it.

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 4:21 am Link to this comment

We Need To Pull Out All Stops To Keep Kucinich In Congress

Despite the fact that he is the best candidate on just about every issue, after being rudely shut out of the debates before his time perhaps it was inevitable he would not be able to sustain a run for
president. But today we learned that there is a conspiracy of huge corporations prepared to throw millions of dollars at trying to kick our hero out of Congress altogether, by financing a troll primary
challenge. They are running smear ads in his district already and we have to fight back now.

Fight Back Kucinich Donations:
http://www.usalone.com/fight_back_kucinich.php

IMPORTANT: Even if you have already given the legal limit to the Kucinich presidential campaign, you can donate up to another $2,300 to his Congressional campaign above now.

They’ve done this before, when Kucinich stood up to the utility special interests, and refused to sell Cleveland’s power generating resource. They forced his city into bankrupty, they hurt their own
city to force him out of office. We can’t stand by and just let that happen again. Kucinich is an irreplaceable advocate for all the issues we are fighting for. This is a not just a race he is supposed to win, it is a race we MUST win, and by a landslide. And we only have weeks to do it.

We’ve already sent out upwards of a thousand of the special commemorative edition Kucinich pocket constitutions, and more are going out this week. So if you can make a donation of $100 or more,
Dennis wants to send you as a thank you gift one of these collector’s edition pocket constitutions for your very own, just like the one he protects and defends every day.

There is no better investment we can make in the integrity of our democracy than a Kucinich donation. Look at what Dennis has done with his donations. He financed a recount in New Hampshire, which turned
up enough problems to inspire a new bill in Congress to provide emergency paper ballot assistance to any jurisdiction that wants to switch back to tamperproof paper. And we generated tens of thousands of messages to Congress on that just last week.

Fight Back Kucinich Donations:
http://www.usalone.com/fight_back_kucinich.php

He uses his donations to get the truth out and to inspire people to act on the issues we want ALL our members of Congress to stand for. And the best way to do that is to show them how strongly we support
him. Because there can be no doubt, that taken together, his voting record, and his leadership, stands head and shoulders about just about any other member of Congress we’ve got.

Simply put, we need a hundred more like Dennis Kucinich. But first we need to protect and defend the one we’ve got, to stand up for him,
just as he has dedicated his life to standing up for us.

And if you are so fortunate that you can make a donation of $1,000 or more, Dennis will not only personally autograph your special pocket constitution for you, he will send you a personal thank you letter to go along with it.

We know there are many of our participants who have been hurt badly by the economic debacle descended on us by the Cheney regime. We know you are doing all you can by submitting every action page you can get
your hands on. But it also means that those of us who can make a contribution need to do little extra now, because the money will be so well spent in support of the progressive initiative.

Kucinich is under attack because he is having a real impact. Without his raw courage, there would be no pending resolution for impeaching Cheney in the House Judiciary Committee, gaining more and more
support every day. They desperate to shut him up.

That’s not going to happen, with your help.

Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed to be ours, and forward this alert as widely as possible.

If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at
http://www.usalone.com/in.htm

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 3:04 am Link to this comment

Dear Louise,

You’re absolutely right, that we’re not on the floor. (Well, at least not THAT floor). That’s why I still have that ‘bumper sticker’ on my door. (since I don’t have a bumper). It says:

“Bush LIED…100,000 people DIED!”

And, that’s from 3 years ago. Even then, it was probably way more than 100,000. I don’t even wanna count now. We need to use the energy to stop the dying and the lying.

Still, why do you suppose that Kucinich withdrew these truthful remarks? Just because it’s a rule that one cannot call the President a liar on the floor?

But, he IS a liar. Who knows if he’s a bigger liar than Dick Cheney, but we know they’re both liars, and that their lies have created destruction here at home, and around the world.

So what? Now we have ‘rules’ on the floor that prohibit the telling of the truth? Well I say, piss on ‘em!! We’re gonna tell it anyway!! 

So, I’ll just charge up my cute little pink phone here, and make sure to call ALL of those numbers you’ve provided, so I can use up all of my “minutes’ on a worthy cause.

And yes, I promise to be nice. Clowning and cussing rarely accomplishes much, though sometimes it’s helpful. Just depends on the circumstances I guess. More like a temporary exercise in self-medication.

I think I’m gonna miss the SOS though, so somebody can hopefully provide highlights.

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 1:43 am Link to this comment

BeerDoctor,

(you never did tell me if you ‘doctored the beer’ or if you use the beer to doctor the people – no matter, you’re good with me either way)

Anyway, I wanted to point out that Tony Wincher has indeed been on the case for well over a year…so the firestorm just added more wood.) He’s been a bundle of energy here, and we’ve also met up from time to time on the international forum portion of the BarackObama blog/campaign site. (it’s really EXTENSIVE) Matter of fact, I do believe that’s what has given him the edge he’s accomplished. That website, and all of the related forums, have provided a ton of information for Obama, simply by encouraging ‘we the people’ to contribute and discuss the issues. In short, more than any other candidate, in recent history, Obama has been able to bring more Americans into the political process, and IMO, that has very much contributed to his success to date. The perpetual haters will of course argue the point, but it seems obvious enough to me.

Anyway, something new that Tony just posted here, of which I was unaware, has added just that much more to my own ‘collection’. I had no idea that Alan Dershowitz was playing advisor to Hillary Clinton. It’s ironic, since Maani continues to hurl accusations at me, of maintaining some visceral hatred for Hillary. That’s not true. I never hated her, and I still don’t.

ON THE OTHER HAND, while ‘hate’ is too strong a word to use for someone that I don’t know personally, I’m real close to that with Alan Dershowitz. Matter of fact, I don’t like him any better than I like Dick Cheney, and he’s just as dangerous. Yep…a very dangerous dude…one who has written extensively, on topics which find me in vehement disagreement…like his attempt to ‘legalize’ torture, among other things. No, Alan Dershowitz should be on the list of the most dangerous Americans, and there are many. He’s right up there with Kissinger. So, if he’s advising Hillary, it’s the same as her being advised by Kissinger or Dick Cheney, or David Addington, or Scooter Libby, (used to be Liebowitz) or John Yoo, or any of the others who’ve made our lives hell on earth.

I don’t like ‘em, not one little bit, and I wouldn’t mind locking them all up at the bottom of a dry well. They can sit there and pray for rain, to either quench their thirst, or drown them….whichever they prefer. Always nice to have a ‘selection’ eh?

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By cyrena, January 28, 2008 at 1:17 am Link to this comment

Tony, Beerdoctor, and all.

Hurrah, Hurrah, is what I say to you, with mucho gratitude.

First and foremost is the issue of Zionism, because of course Americans need to hear an honest debate on this….it’s far, far, far too many years beyond the point when we should ALL have been made aware of this.

Which brings me back to my earlier point….too many Americans simply do not know. And, I’m not talking about the ‘wretched of the earth’ either. I’m talking about the average American of the past 4 or 5 decades, who still wouldn’t know what you or I might even mean by the term, ‘Zionism’, and so they do NOT make the connection (at least in their own minds) to the fact that we have slipped further and further into the abyss, as a result of it.

The reality, (and Tony, you’ve helped ME to make this connection, and so like most average Americans, I am learning as I go), Zionism is no different than any other ideology that has spurned the tyranny and authoritarianism of other decades, and other regimes. It’s absolutely NO different than the Nazism that consumed Germany (and the world). I could provide other examples, as you have with South Africa’s apartheid, but the Nazism, as an ideology, is the closest to the unspeakable horrors of what Zionism has already wrought.

By NO MEANS, am I dismissing that. I am saying though, that because it has operated as typically as Nazism did, the majority of US (at least here in America) have yet to know what hit us, or can make the connection to the US determination of hegemony and imperialism, (in a Zionist method of operation) to what has created this enormous decline.

So, at the risk of repeating myself, the establishment of tyranny relies on confusion, and chaos, and terror…of the masses and the classes. And, the Terrible Twins, (Israel and the US) have operated in perfect harmony on this, at least in the past decade, if not longer. We can go back further, but for the purposes of this conversation, the PNAC has said it all. So, we should know what we’re up against, and I’m certain that Barack Obama does. He’s a smart man. He’s also subjected to all of the same real politick as the system has created, and rather than simply succumb to it entirely, there HAS to be a change.

That CHANGE cannot happen overnight, but more importantly, it cannot be managed from OUTSIDE the system…which is why we need to support whomever has the best chance of ‘getting in’. Unless we ‘get one of our guys in’ we can’t do much, to change anything.

Beerdoc, I agree that we have every reason…no, we have a DUTY, to make our politicians accountable, and we have seen NEXT TO NOTHING of that, for how long now? We wasted incredible amounts of time jacking around with Bill Clinton’s personal shenanigans at the end of his term, instead of attacking the policies that he’d continued from the earlier regime..like NAFTA, and so many of the other things that cut the legs out from under the middle class. Nobody was paying any attention to this Zionism lurking in the shadows, waiting to spring all of this on us, at the first available opportunity. Or, let me speak for myself and those within my own circle of human contacts…WE didn’t know. We were too busy trying to save our jobs, and save our homes…YES…even then, only to have suffered the losses anyway…

But for many, (including me) it WAS a ‘wakeup’ call. If it was too late to ‘save’ some of those things, it wasn’t too late, (at least for me), to finally decide to try and figure out just EXACTLY WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON!! How did this happen, and how should we try to prevent it from happening again?

And…the quest for that knowledge-to-action, is still going on…

So, we share what we know, and hope that it will bring more to the common good. It’s all we have.

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By dina Tevas, January 28, 2008 at 12:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes Cyrena,

You are right.  That was a diatribe.  I am tired of being fed bull by the media.  Obama and Hillery were chosen by the media early on. I have been working locally and nationally for Edwards.  I continue to work in my local community on issues that effect my neighbors.  We need more people in the grass roots who are interested in helping their neighbors and communities elect local officials who are interested in change.  It all begins with each of us talking on blogs to one another and taking our voice into our communities.  That is where each of us on this blog should be-if you are too busy-support local groups that are working through small donations of money or goods.  Stand outside a supermarket to get petitions signed.  Action is our only alternative.  If we can change one community at a time, we will eventually change this country.  Nationally-we are lost.  The deck is stacked.  I campaigned actively for Clinton and his great “hands across the isle” speeches.  The moment he was elected he was crucified.  Remember Newt.  Meeting in the middle gave us NAFTA and “welfare reform.“Because he didn’t have a clearly articulated heath care plan and invited health care companies in on the negotiation, we didn’t get any health care reform.  I campaigned for Kerry a war hero who was crucified by the Republican machine with his own war record and who won all the exit polls in Ohio but somehow lost the election. I have a long memory and have worked locally and nationally on many campaigns and this is what I have seen.  I am not negative,  I am realistic.  Americans are doomed to repeat their mistakes if they continue to forget history or underestimate their opponents.  We must all be vigilant and elect congressional reps like Bernie Sanders or Babara Boxer who don’t bend and fight for our Constitutional rights. You and I and all the people on this blog can change this country-one election at a time as long as we do not forget what we are fighting for and strength of the forces fighting against our Democracy.

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By thebeerdoctor, January 28, 2008 at 12:02 am Link to this comment

cyrena, the firestorm created has already had some positive results (check out the Wicher post). Please believe I am not cynically dedicated to knocking Obama down, in fact, despite all the empty rhetoric aside, I actually admire the man, for being a forthright, able politician. But I think one of the things that people who believe in justice must do, is always hold them to a higher standard. Thus, I think it is quite appropriate to demand they (the candidates) be accountable to the truth. Peace, blessings as always my only prayer: Thank You! The Beer Doctor.

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By Tony Wicher, January 28, 2008 at 12:00 am Link to this comment

cyrena,

I totally agree with this. I would just like to say that Israel/Palestine is of central importance in world affairs, and a lot of Americans have stronger opinions on this issue than any other in foreign policy. We are concerned with it as a human rights issue, but the strong involvement of the United States makes it more immediately important than that. First our “special alliance” with Israel is a pretext for U.S. militarism and hegemonism in the Middle East. Zionism is an undemocratic, quasi-religious, nationalist ideology that involves conquest, settlement, ethnic cleansing and apartheid in its very essence and conception. The United States must follow its own civil rights traditions and end support for Zionism, that is Israeli apartheidIsrael must end apartheid as South Africa did. That is the only way to peace. Americans who are concerned about foreign policy should hear an honest debate about this.

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 11:50 pm Link to this comment

Thank you Tony Wicher, your insights concerning Brzezinski and Dershowitz is quite revealing. If this is true, than the man from Illinois has something going on about foreign policy, that mainstream media is clueless about. Again, thank you.

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By Tony Wicher, January 27, 2008 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

I know this because I have been fighting the Israel Lobby within the Obama campaign for over a year. One of Obama’s principle foreign policy advisors is Carter Administration national security advocate Zbigniew Brzezinski. A few months ago in Iowa he introduced Obama at a foreign policy forum. Obama was immediately criticized for this by fabricator, Zionist extremist and torture advocate Alan Dershowitz who is advising Clinton. He publically called Brzezinski an “anti-Semite”, the same charge he leveled against Brzezinski’s boss, Jimmy Carter, for his book “Palestine: Peace not Apartheid”. I considered this charge so outrageous that I contacted Rabbi Michael Lerner, the founder of Tikkun Magazine and the Network of Spiritual Progessives. He sent a letter to Brzezinski expressing the support of the progressive Jewish community. Since then I am happy to note that Brezinzki continues to be on Obama’s team in spite of the Israel Lobby’s best efforts to the contrary. I believe that Brzeinski’s policies in the Middle East, which you can read in his book “Second Chance” and other foreign policy addresses, are much more Israel-neutral and good for this country than policies influenced by the likes of Dershowitz.

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By cyrena, January 27, 2008 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment

Hi beerdoctor,

On the firestorm that you’ve struck, (maybe from the Democracy Now! link, and the other stuff allegedly from Obama’s website)….I’d definitely agree that ‘communication’ is good, but more than anything, I think it’s good if it brings to light some things OTHER than the obvious…things that we have a tendency to take for granted.

For instance, the details I noted from the Amy Goodman link. I’m quite a fan of that program, (and Amy Goodman’s work) and I will continue to be. But, this particular piece exposed how incorrect stuff, can in fact be circulated, and even from trusted sites or generally credible people.

In reality, Barack Obama did NOT write the letter that Ali claims he ‘apparently’ did, and in reality, Ron Paul has NEVER supported the Palestinians or the Israelis in this conflict. In reality, Dennis Kucinich, (my own choice until he dropped out) has been the only one to really address the conflict – directly. And, as an aside, I also couldn’t verify the stuff that you posted from his web site. I’m not suggesting that it may not have been there at some time, or maybe it still is, and I just couldn’t find it. But, I did look carefully, and I cannot find this support for Israel, (or the comments about Israel’s attack on Lebanon in the summer of 2006) anywhere on his site.

So, if we’re going to stay in the ‘communication’ mode, it needs to be accurate information, or it’s of no use, and can of course, even result in catastrophe. (the lies that led to Iraq come to mind).

That said, I’d like to add some pragmatism to the overall content discussion here, since what we’re talking about is Obama’s candidacy, and hopefully his views and his positions, on a MULTIPLE issues, as they relate to the overall well being of the US and ‘we the people’. I make the point because in yet another reality, (and this is the pragmatic point) the Israel/Palestine Conflict, as horrendous as it is, and has been, is simply NOT a major priority for the MAJORITY of Americans. Yes, the ones who vote.

I’m not saying this to belittle or otherwise dismiss the legitimate (or not so legitimate) concerns of those who DO have them. Personally, I am very emotionally/intellectually invested in the Palestinian struggle for self-determination, and I remain appropriately pissed off about every dime of MY money, that is funneled to Israel, as they continue their 60 year old reign of terror, and violate every single law on the books; including but not limited to crimes against humanity.

HOWEVER, there are literally MILLIONS of Americans…even the MAJORITY of Americans, who couldn’t find Israel on the map, and don’t have a clue that their tax dollars are being directed to Israel. These are people who work too hard at their own survival, to go out of their way to absorb any sort of information or education (if it’s even available) on events or issues that happen outside their own environments, let alone half-way across the world. Rather, they care about what is happening to THEM, in THEIR country, and it is to THEM, that Obama was speaking in S.C. and in Iowa, and just about any place else that he’s likely to campaign for the office of President.

THESE are the people who want education for themselves and their children, (and maybe then, they CAN learn about these conflicts across the world). They care about jobs, and they care about their health, and the health of their families. And, THEY are the majority, and THAT is the bottom line.

So, we can –among ourselves- debate the issues of Israel and the ills of the world all we like, and it’s apparent to me, that it always comes down to that, on these blogs. But in the real world, where US citizens are struggling to survive, as much or more than the Palestinians or the Israelis, or anybody else for that matter, those are NOT priorities. They want their loved ones home, (NOT DYING in some place unknown to them) and all the rest of this stuff as well.

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By cyrena, January 27, 2008 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Ah…this is one of the things I was going to point out.

It would appear that while there are those who legitimately call for Obama to speak specifically, instead of in vague terms of ‘change’ they don’t bother to listen to him when he DOES. Getting rid of the lobbies is a biggie. Denouncing ALL forms of torture, and the consistent violation of International Law, is a biggie. (you’ll have to listen to his Iowa speeches for that).

There are in fact others, and many of them. One does in fact need to listen though, and to pay attention, to know what he’s saying…

And, at the end of the day, isn’t that who we should be quoting, in criticism or praise? In agreement or disagreement? I really do prefer to get it from the horses mouth.

It’s fine to ask for specifics, since I want them myself, and I think we all should. But, the specifics aren’t going to help, if one has a mental filter for them, already in place.

By the way…. AIPAC is a LOBBY. Connect the dots.

We can do it…yes we can.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, January 27, 2008 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

Those of you who still believe that any president will bring about any real change are only fooling yourselves.Obama’s “Yes We Can” is no match for the AIPAC and their ilk,and in particular the Zionist controlled media.

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By cyrena, January 27, 2008 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

Well Dina,

It sure isn’t like we haven’t heard all of the negativity before, so…can you give us something new?

Like, you’ve spent a whole bunch of time telling us what WON’T work, and why, and how…got any alternatives?

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

I think jackpine savage you are speaking of the symbolic value of this change at the top of the pageant government. And you are correct when you state that apathy never helped anything. Persistent determination is what is needed most. Peace.

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

souljaEXVOTO, your comments about Obama are appreciated because you are putting the matter in a cultural rather than just a political context. You see on this post I set off a bit of a firestorm when I first linked to Democracy Now! last week about where the candidates stand on the Middle East. Then, the next morning, I posted up some statements from Barack’s own web site about his total support of U.S.-Israel foreign policy. As you can imagine, this only added fuel to the fire (read the comments) which is good. As an old Bell Telephone radio commercial use to say: communication is the beginning of understanding.
So if you are correct that Obama is first human before assuming his role as politician, maybe he will listen, not just to AIPAC, but to the rest of those called the insignificant ones, ergo: The People.

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By Douglas Chalmers, January 27, 2008 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment

By Maani, January 27: “Jackpine said, “To suggest, as Mr. Chalmers does, that Sen Clinton will clear AIPAC out of Washington is disingenuous.” Not quite. Doug never suggested Hillary would do so, but only that Obama would NOT…”

Thank you for your interesting response, Maani. As you say, whether any president is willing to pass legislation is the ultimate opportunity or stumbling block in the USA’s version of democracy.

That is why fragmenting the Democrats into separate squabbling camps is so destructive. In the end, it will be carried over into government - if they ever succeed. Even that is not likely given that a wrong choice for nominee or a protest vote for a minor party in a non-preferential voting system could still see the GOP in power again.

“Co-operation will save you” is the motto so many of these childishly naive voters still have to learn. The fact IS that there must be a team and the main contenders constantly bashing each other down (or so the media portrays it) is not the way to establish a cohesive approach.

Again, with Obama supporters in particular, the question remains as to whether so many are disenchanted Republicans who would not vote for Hillary anyway or are they simply desperate to have change but not if it means a woman in power? The fact IS that so many of them do have issues with their mothers and simply still can’t accept a woman as president.

Perhaps if Israel was a theocracy, the situation there (in Palestine - ref. quote by PatrickHenry) would not be nearly as bad? The real problem IS that it is a “settler society” and that the majority of the original inhabitants have been forced to give way to the invasion of millions of European Jews. Well, that’s just what the American “wild west” originally looked like. Not very nice, is it?

But the fact IS that what ‘lilmamzer’ calls “self-determination” is the very act of developing and covertly threatening its neighbors with nuclear WMD’s and that IS everybody’s business. The world is not safe today if even one small country uses a nuclear weapon never mind that Israel would have to launch a nuclear attack on a dozen cities in the Arab world to stop what would happen next.

And that doesn’t include Iran (pop. 70 million) which is Persian, not Arab, or Turkey (pop. 70 million)  which is not Arab either. Amazing how an illegal terrorist state (pop. 7 million) can be allowed to do so and threaten 460+ million people (incl. 320 million Arabs) for no real reason except its own Zionist fantasies.

In that case, the state of Israel should be “wiped off the map” in name at least. Who is going to disarm them, though? Only the USA can and yet is is the very nation pandering so helplessly to its own pet poodle. The cost of any unilateral action by Israel is enormous but the madmen (and one black woman) in the US administration are willing to continue to perpetrate first-strike delusions.

So, the problem is not AIPAC really - or is it? Well, now that the US Congress and the US Senate have been corralled by a bunch of howling lilmamzers, getting rid of AIPAC would be the obvious solution. It should not only be kicked out of Washington but declared an illegal terrorist-supporting organization theat it really is and its members and financial backers arrested and tried for their war crimes.

I would be quite comfortable with Hillary’s “seeming lack of humility” if she has the guts and determination to do just that. When are YOUR left-wing evangelical ministers going to come forward to the aid of the party, Maani??? Leaving it any longer will be too late!!! I think you know why…....

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

Bless you Louise, your post is what those who are weary of the continuous injustices need to read. This is satyagraha in action. In fact, Dennis Kucinich is living proof of this. Too many people have given into despair and fallen into the false doctrine of compromise. There are some things, as Martin Luther King pointed out, you should be permanently maladjusted to, and the insanity of war and its attached militarism is at the top of the list.
When Nancy Pelosi announced that impeachment was off the table, that was proof that the Democratic Party did not care that we have a President and Vice-President who have committed crimes against humanity. It has always been the time to hold their feet to the fire, not with violence, but with peaceful, totally determined truth.

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 8:15 pm Link to this comment

Yes Maani, if you subscribe to what former Harper’s editor Lewis Lapham referred to as the two branches of government: the pageant and the permanent; then Barack Obama is the best candidate for the pageant branch. Of course the permanent branch, as revealed in the AIPAC influence, is another matter entirely.
As for the speech, I don’t know what he is saying, I just like to hear him talk. I was going to say he floats like a butterfly but stings like… but hey, there is sting in his zing. Zing! went the strings of my heart.

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By Louise, January 27, 2008 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

Seems like an appropriate head to post the following.

“On Wednesday, Kucinich announced he’ll be filing articles of impeachment against President Bush on Monday.

That’s the same day of the president’s State of the Union address.

The announcement comes as Kucinich railed the President and Vice President for how they have handled the war in Iraq.

In his lengthy statement, the Ohio congressman said, “The President and Vice President lied and 4,000 of our soldiers died. The President and Vice President lied and a million innocent Iraqis died in a war that’ll cost us $2 trillion while people here in the states are losing their jobs, their health care, their homes, their dignity. Lies are weapons of mass destruction. Lies are also an impeachable offense. Monday, January 28th is the State of the Union. We already know the State of the Union, it’s a lie.”

After minor commotion on the floor and opposition by Republicans, the ostracized presidential candidate moved to have his words taken off the record.

Kucinich said, “I ask unanimous consent to withdraw the offending words, to the end that they be stricken from the record and that I be permitted to revise and extend my remarks for the record.”

***

Now, it’s important to remember in their eagerness to protect themselves from a serious attack of truth and honesty, the congress passed rules forbidding anyone from calling the president, or a member of Congress a liar from the floor.

Well, we’re not on the floor!

It will be terribly hard to get their attention just now, because the dems and the repubs are getting all pretty and proper, and wangling for a place on the aisle so they can be photographed shaking the Liar’s hand as he marches down the aisle, but we need to try!

Letters to the editors! Phone calls! Write those anchors who spew the news on cable! Write your Mother-in law! Write and phone anybody and everybody you can think of!

AND, the candidates will be in D.C. for the grand event. PUT PRESSURE ON THOSE POOR FOLKS WHO ANSWER THEIR PHONES!

Hillary Rodham Clinton (202) 224-4451; Barack Obama (202) 224-2854; John McCain (202) 224-2235

Be nice. All you need do is say, “I support Kucinich in his effort to impeach the president and the vice president, and I’d like to know how [insert senators name] feels about impeachment.” And if you feel like it, you can congratulate Obama, or McCain or sympathize with Hillary.

Don’t expect a commitment, truth terrifies candidates during an election.

The main thing is they need to know folks out here don’t like liars! Folks out here want impeachment!

Like Kucinich, we may all be shut out, but we can still make things a tad uncomfortable for the phony’s snuggling the Bush!

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By thebeerdoctor, January 27, 2008 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

Ostrogoth, you nailed the present dilemma. The whole “right of return” thing is based upon the mythology that God is The Real Estate Broker for the chosen people. Strangely, it is that same “right of return” that is vigorously denied to the Palestinians when ever they inquire what became of their houses, land and businesses… forever stolen from them in the name of Israeli security.
There’s the rub as they say. This injustice remains a fact, no matter how many defenders of this hideous policy claim otherwise.
Make no mistake, it is the United States government that ultimately must be held accountable. The political expediency of Barack Obama is just the latest example of this vicious corrupt lie.
OK, you do not have to be a progressive liberal, just a bedrock libertarian to see that this is wrong. Beware of foreign entanglements it use to be said. Giving aid, both economic and military, to countries such as Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, to name just a few, only puts us, that is the citizens of this country, at greater and greater risk.

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