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Howard Dean’s Personalized Query to GOP Debaters

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Posted on Nov 28, 2007
Dean and snowman
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He’s already taken plenty, so he might as well dish it:  Gov. Howard Dean grins on YouTube with a snowy friend.

Howard Dean knows a thing or two about the perils of the campaign trail.  Here, the man who emitted the deadliest scream in American political history wonders why any of the Republican presidential hopefuls taking the stage in Wednesday’s CNN/YouTube debate consider themselves candidates of change.

Watch the clip:

 

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By Jewelry, October 26, 2010 at 7:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

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By Nomascerdo, November 30, 2007 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

“I didn’t go back to it b/c I truly don’t care about Ron Paul or anyone that supports him.(I’ll do it for you though.)”

Thank you for finding the proof for me, I will look forward to seeing it.  It does seems only fair that you should support your claim considering that you are the one that made the accusation to begin with.  By all accounts, the burden of proof lies with you.  It is also a shame you are so closed minded and don’t care for your fellow Americans that have different ideas than you.  Remember that it is the fascists that you claim to despise who ignore and belittle those with different ideas or perceptions.

“I’ve seen my country systematically dismantled by the GOP and we’re staring at a financial situation that hasn’t been seen since the depression and NO ONE is talking about it!”

Have you ever seen Ron Paul question Alan Greenspan while he was Fed chairman and more recently Bernanke as Fed chairman regarding the current financial crisis?  Apparently not. Allow me to help…

Here he is in July:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=xTBrJNipytg

Here he is in November:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj9KHJRRUbQ

Further, as the only economist running for President whose platform is largely based on addressing the issue of monetary policy (Ron Paul entered politics when Nixon shut the gold window and made the dollar 100% fiat) you again ignore a big part of the picture and his platform.

“I’m just an old fashioned American looking for the best person for the job regardless of party… The GOP is only offering monkeys, so I can’t really choose anyone from their party to support.”

You contradict yourself here and since you are ignorant (self styled) concerning virtually all of Ron Paul’s ideas, political philosophy, statements, speeches, writings, and books it appears that you have some work to do before drawing the above conclusion.

I will remind you that focusing on headlines about yes / no votes on the bills that come to the floor, many of which are several hundred pages long, is more likely to get you the candidate you don’t want then the candidate you do want.  You have to dig a little deeper and see the reasoning. 

Remember that lawmakers write the titles of a bill to make them politically agreeable (marketing).  It is a game to force an opponent to vote against something they might otherwise not support or support. Usually the title of the bill does not indicate what the bill really means nor describe the onerous provisions within it, nor if it passes a Constitutional smell test.

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By Freedom Jenkins, November 30, 2007 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

Nomascerdo,  I didn’t go back to it b/c I truly don’t care about Ron Paul or anyone that supports him.(I’ll do it for you though.)  I have been living among ignorant people in my own country for the past 7 years while it felt like I was in the Twilight Zone.  People who would’ve been shot for treason in the 80’s are looked up to by millions of Americans and you want me to be tolerant?  Hell No!  Not any more!  There’s a right way to do things and there’s a wrong way.  I’ve seen my country systematically dismantled by the GOP and we’re staring at a financial situation that hasn’t been seen since the depression and NO ONE is talking about it!  I’ve seen news turn in to corporate and GOP propaganda.  Drugs are being sold that have a longer list of side-effects than benefits b/c the FDA doesn’t protect us anymore.  Our country is upside-down, but the status quo is cool for you!  Awesome!  Put the GOP back in for more… what do I know, I’m just an old fashioned American looking for the best person for the job regardless of party… The GOP is only offering monkeys, so I can’t really choose anyone from their party to support. =(

“I just sense that while you want to help people your understanding of the best ways to actually do it are misguided.”

Unfortunately, you could not be more wrong even though you are on the right track.  Believe it or not, I am a leader and have always been considered a leader.  I am not afraid of people like you and I am not afraid to speak truth to power or ignorance in your case.  I have not spent a lot of time on my website b/c we are currently working on one for my City Council campaign… don’t worry I will keep you posted so you can tell the GOP about my alternate web identity.

In all honesty Nomascerdo, it’s been stimulating to say the least, but we really are dragging WAY to much attention to this stupid Howard Dean question for the YT debate.

Can we resume a debate on Making a Case for the Long View?

Additionally, I think we can lay off the ignorant comments…it’s a matter of opinion and I seriously doubt we’ll convince each other otherwise.

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By Nomascerdo, November 30, 2007 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

So no attempt to prove your assertion in your original post?

“The ONLY reason Ron Paul is the front runner for the Fascist Party is b/c he spoke the truth about the Iraq War in the first debate and said that it had nothing to do with 9/11… Giuliani tried to get him to retract his statement AND HE DID until he found out that people gave him respect for that the next day…”

That little gem doesn’t have a lick of truth or reality in it anywhere.  Not to mention that you were also attacking another person’s comment in the forum literally for no good reason that I can see.  What is worse, you proceeded to pat yourself on the back for doing such a good job (according to yourself).

Blue Eagle asked a reasonable question and you lost it!  Too many Red Bulls today?  What is the deal with your anger towards debate and discourse?

The fact that you don’t know what Ron Paul was saying in 1974 does not lend you credibility here.  Using the fact that you were not born yet is hardly a decent excuse.  There are plenty of books and articles available to read which I suggest you do before jumping into a discussion so aggressively.  You are probably a decent, well meaning person but you are attacking people, making massive generalizations, and generally acting like a douche.  You also seem to have a higher opinion about yourself and your own opinion as it relates to other’s than seems appropriate.  Watching your videos only supports my claim.  What evidence do you have to support any of your claims?  Still waiting on the first big one cited above…

I also love how somehow you have embodied me to be some lazy, greedy, imperialistic business man who is trying to keep you down and is pillaging the world over and hates women and homosexuals and minorities etc etc.  Hey FJ, I’m not your father!  (you gotta laugh at that one ; )

I did think it was funny that you consider supporting Edwards and Kucinich to be only ‘one step beyond ignorance’.  I would actually agree with you somewhat on Kucinich, although I would put Edwards far deeper than just ‘one step’ beyond ignorance. How about one or two giant leaps beyond ignorance into full blown idiocy?  Kucinich at least recognizes the flaws in our foreign policy, the same cannot be said for Edwards whose voting record on the war and the Patriot act are shameful and whose economic policy recommendations are dreadful.

You are angry at this administration for what has happened (lies, illegal war, privacy, rights abuse, torture, etc etc).  You are not alone! In fact you are in the majority of opinion here.  You are against corporatism and imperialism and cronyism. I agree with you (again, so do most).  I just sense that while you want to help people your understanding of the best ways to actually do it are misguided.

Try having discussions with people instead of going off the rails and ‘lambasting’ them for no good reason.  Try reading SOURCE material instead of just what you get off of blogs and other slanted publications.  You might actually learn something.

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By Freedom Jenkins, November 30, 2007 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

BTW Nomascerdo,  Yes, you should believe me about my visits to my website because I work mainly on production and my buddy in NY does the webbing.  If you want me to redirect everyone to our YouTube, Blip.TV, Twtter, myspace, etc. I could, but that would be a pretty big waste of my time.  Producing those videos did not take a lot of money or equipment, just my time… and yes, I did do it for my own personal entertainment…and for anyone else who thinks the media and our government is a complete joke. 

As far as Ron Paul goes, you really support this guy… you know what he was saying in 1974?  Jesus, I wasn’t even alive!  I really don’t need to hear the argument for treating women or homosexuals like they are less than human, I know it’s wrong and anti-American…oh wait, that’s Pro-American in this country now b/c The GOP has done such a bang-up job! 

Ron Paul is the GOP, poor-man’s version of Dennis Kucinich and his ideas are watered down versions of true change that is needed.  I commend you for recognizing that he knows change is needed and I’m glad you support Ron, but we(America) can do sooo much better! 

You seem like a bright guy who can string some intelligible sentences together… Why don’t you go one step beyond ignorance and support Kucinich or Edwards?  They are a million times better and they’re not attached to an over-reaching political party that is trying to imperialize the globe and ruin their own nation while they’re at it.

The GOP might as well be used car salesmen… No one is going to buy their crap anymore!

PS.  “Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if Cyrena was your teacher (I believe she is an academic)”  I love how you GOP morons don’t like academics!  Why, because they teach people so they don’t end up like ignorant GOP idiots?  I wish we had more academics in this country… that way we wouldn’t have gotten our country in to this type of FUBAR situation!

I wish your generation would stop messing things up and hand over the world so we could start fixing it.  Here’s an idea… Start paying US Min. Wage in other countries instead of exploiting them.  Respect goes a long way… People fight to gain respect, land, resources, etc.  We are America and we don’t need to steal from them!  Why don’t we play by our own rule?  Lazy & Greedy business men have inspired terrorism and the dismantling of our middle class.

If we had a debate my friend, I would tear you a new one!  How’s that for a “lack of critical thinking”? 

PPS.  You should take your own advice about focusing on candidates.  Stop making out with Ron Paul and come up for some air.

PPSS.  You’re posts aren’t very funny.  Could you try to entertain us a little more with your Ron Paul dribble?  You’re posts sound just like him… boring and not very convincing.

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By Nomascerdo, November 30, 2007 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

By the way FreedomJenkins, I just actually looked at your website and to claim that you don’t want people to visit it and that ‘you don’t even check it out that often’ is literally laughable.  You have something like 16 personal essay position videos there that clearly took you a significant amount of time to write, film, edit, and post.  Are you claiming that you spend the time and money to do this is solely for your own entertainment as your comment suggests?  Puhlease!

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By Nomascerdo, November 30, 2007 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

Please show me the specific examples of where he didn’t stick to his guns on this issue.  I would love to see them.

In fact, he held a press conference the following day (or the day after) with Michael Scheuer at the NPC giving Giuliani a list of books to read that supported his position.  He has quite literally been giving speeches in Congress since 1974 against interventionism.  He spoke very eloquently just days after 9-11 to Congress about the right and wrong way for us to respond.  Please educate yourself a little. Your hysteria is blinding you from rational thought!

I’d also like you to tell me why the GOP is so anti Ron Paul, including EVERY other GOP candidate, and the bulk of what are now considered conservative (in reality they are now neo-conservative) pundits, news sources, outlets, politicians etc?

Furthermore, I have seen Cyrena write repeatedly on Truthdig that she doesn’t listen to or read what Ron Paul says. She tunes him out. Ignores him etc.  Meanwhile she is one of the most vociferous opponents and fear mongerers out there.  Judging a member of Congress STRICTLY on a yes / no vote on the immensely complex bills that go through Congress is absurd especially when specific reasons for these votes are available.  It is like reading a newspaper headline in one newspaper and then concluding that you understand the whole story.  That is all Cyrena does and she is missing a big part of the story by doing so.  The fact that she is afraid of Ron Paul more than Huckabee or Giuliani or Romney speaks volumes about her lack of understanding.

Someone who intentionally ignores the other side of an argument by choice is not one who brings ‘intelligence’ to any discussion.  That is someone who brings one dimensional dogma and hype.

The fact that you associate the following with Ron Paul:

“Fight ‘em there, so we don’t have to fight ‘em here, Mission Accomplished, WMD, Democracy, BLACKWATER, Valerie Plame = Treason, Closed Doors Energy Policy…”

...says to me that you are just as guilty as Cyrena with your superficial understanding of Ron Paul’s positions, not to mention what he will actually be capable of achieving as POTUS in the context of our political system.

Based upon the lack of critical thinking you demonstrate with your writings I think your teacher probably should flunk you.  Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if Cyrena was your teacher (I believe she is an academic).

PS - Ron Paul believes in the natural rights of all citizens.  Simply put it means that human beings do not derive their rights FROM government.  Their natural rights are inherent and cannot be taken away unless that person is convicted of a crime where they infringed on the natural rights of another person. If you don’t understand the concept of natural rights you should, because they are very important in the context of a free people’s relationship with their representative government and a critical piece as to why so many people, Republican, Democrat, and Independent alike are listening to his message and supporting him.

PPS - If you don’t want people to go to your website then don’t advertise it in an already perfectly acceptable forum for comment and debate.

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By Freedom Jenkins, November 30, 2007 at 9:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena, thank you for bringing some intelligence to the board!  I thought this was the GOP homepage yesterday.  It really blows my mind that OUR country is really this fickle and stupid.  Hey GOP supporters - Fight ‘em there, so we don’t have to fight ‘em here, Mission Accomplished, WMD, Democracy, BLACKWATER, Valerie Plame = Treason, Closed Doors Energy Policy… Try this one… WAKE UP AND SMELL WHAT YOU’RE SHOVELING!

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By cyrena, November 30, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

#116907 by Freedom Jenkins

•  …”Heck, now even women thinks he’s a good idea… He’ll take their rights before he takes minority rights…check his voting record.”…

Freedom Jenkins,

I’m not sure about this. I think it’s a ‘toss up’ on which rights he would take first, woman or other minorities. BUT, there’s no doubt that women who are ALSO minorities, (i.e. women of color, Jews, professionals) will surely get hit first and hardest.

So no, we DON’T think he’s a good idea. Oh no…not at all. But then, we didn’t think Dick Bush was a good idea either, and you see what happened there.

If there will be anything at all left that Dick Bush hasn’t destroyed, Ron Paul can be counted on to wipe that out as well.

I’ve already recommended (on a number of occasions) that folks simply check his voting record. I don’t think this lot of zealots is likely to do it though. Groupies have a tendency to embrace denial, as well as historical amnesia.

Rest assured though, we haven’t ALL fallen down the rabbit hole.

Meantime, I thoroughly appreciate The Dean.

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By Freedom Jenkins, November 29, 2007 at 10:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nomascerdo, I could care less if people go my website… I don’t even check it out that often because there are so many other mediums.  A troll?  Sorry for posting my opinion based on the ENTIRE debate and some other factual events, not just some YouTube clips and the latest media sound bite.  You’re in total denial if you think he stuck to his guns!  Man, that guy has paper courage… you think voting against women’s rights is courageous?  Ron Paul and the rest of the Republican Party are crooks and they’ll put their own best interests in front of America 10 times out of 10 until they are in danger and need help.  Well, what can I do?  This is what happens when you replace education with 24hr propaganda.  BTW, it sounds like you’re proud of him b/c he’s logical… That’s pathetic…and he’s the best the GOP has?  My generation is screwed!  Adults suck and you have no idea what you are doing.  If I had answers like our politicians and facts like you, my teacher would flunk me laughing in my face!

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By Nomascerdo, November 29, 2007 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

By the way, you are a troll just trying to lure people onto your website.  Pathetic

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By Nomascerdo, November 29, 2007 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

FreedomJenkins your post is inaccurate.

Ron Paul never retracted his statement regarding his thoughts concerning contributing factors for 9-11. Not even for a second.  Anyone that watches the clip of the debate or has read anything Ron Paul has been writing (even warning about OBL before 9-11) can see that this never happened, not even for a second, as you falsely claim.  You are claiming he pandered. He did not. You are claiming he backed down against Giuliani. He did not.  He stuck to his firm belief.  What he did do was give refer to his sources of why he feels the way he does about 9-11.  The sources he cited: Our own CIA, the 9/11 Commission Report, Paul Wolfowitz comments regarding US bases in Saudi Arabia, Michael Scheuer, etc.

That said, Ron Paul, has literally been talking about the negative unforeseen consequences of our militaristic and interventionist foreign policy, aka Blowback, since he joined Congress in 1974.

You should get your facts straight before you ‘lambast’ others.

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By Margaret from Portland Oregon, November 29, 2007 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If Howard Dean was nominated instead of Kerry this person Bush would not have been president.

Of course that would have happened if Bush had not stolen the election twice. (My opinion)

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By Freedom Jenkins, November 29, 2007 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ATTN. BlueEagle - The ONLY reason Ron Paul is the front runner for the Fascist Party is b/c he spoke the truth about the Iraq War in the first debate and said that it had nothing to do with 9/11… Giuliani tried to get him to retract his statement and he did until he found out that people gave him respect for that the next day… Heck, now even women thinks he’s a good idea… He’ll take their rights before he takes minority rights…check his voting record.  I doubt you care about women’s rights anyway, if you’re supporting the Grand Old Party.  As far as pulling our military bases around the world goes, do you know what the S.O.F.A. Act is… I seriously doubt it, but the rest of America is ignorant about the reasons behind terrorism, so why not you too?  Pick up a book and go spew your ignorance on Sean Hannity’s page… Truthdig is for intelligent people who actually think.
If you need a hanky to wipe your tears up after this lambasting session, come over to Freedom Jenkins dot com and return the favor.

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By ocjim, November 29, 2007 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

If voters looked very closely they would see that the front runner Republican candidates are not running for president. They are running for dictator and if we vote for them we vote for democracy’s demise.

Democrats at least listen to us with one ear.

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By BlueEagle, November 29, 2007 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Ron Paul is a front runner and wants to bring ALL the troops home unlike most of the Democratic candidates. My question for all the democratic candidates is why don’t you want to bring our troops home from Japan, Korea, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Afghanistan. WWII and the Korean War have been over for 50 years.

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By hazmaq, November 29, 2007 at 10:14 am Link to this comment

Love the DEEEAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!

Especially because Rahm Emanuel, and Harry Reid and Joe Lieberman and Steny Hoyer -don’t like him.

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By Aegrus, November 29, 2007 at 6:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I do say that Howard Dean was my favorite candidate of last election. It’s so shameful how that hope-filled and charismatic event completely destroyed his campaign. Honestly, I felt empowered listening to the man, and still think he is a decent politician (if such a thing exists).

This is a nice little clip he provided.

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By Rob Moitoza, November 29, 2007 at 1:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t get it. Did Howard Dean actually get to ask that question at the debate? Did any of them answer it?

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By Can of Whoop Ass, November 28, 2007 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yee Hawwwwwww…..........  Oopsie!

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By P. T., November 28, 2007 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment

Howard Dean found out the hard way in 2004 what happens to you when the ruling class doesn’t want you.

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