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‘Liberty Dollar’ Crackdown

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Posted on Nov 18, 2007
Wolf Blitzer

Ron Paul may not be ahead in the polls, but he’s probably the only presidential candidate who already has his face on a coin. The feds have seized a cache of gold, silver and copper “liberty dollars” bearing Paul’s visage. Other than a mutual distaste for the Federal Reserve, the Republican candidate has no relationship with the makers of the coins.

Watch it:

(via CSPAN Junkie)

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By Free Liberty Reserve, February 24, 2011 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you ask me I say that everyone has a right to keep any form of money,goldsilver as long as it has value and is legal tender.

I think digital currency is the answer to all our woes and will be the currency of choice for many American and indeed the entire globe in the nearest future.

http://earnfreelibertyreserve.blogspot.com/

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By straight_talk_11, November 27, 2007 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

Regarding #116157 by PaulMagillSmith:

The link to iamthewitness.com impresses me, but not positively. By the logic there we need to give Texas back to Mexico. In fact every country in the western hemisphere needs to have everyone who is an immigrant or descended from immigrants from anywhere else should just go back and hand things back to indigenous people. If we go back far enough in history, practically no one on earth should be living where they live.

I am not Jewish, but I happen to direct the choir at a Conservative synagogue. I am therefore very privy to the Zionist mindset. I do find their “chosen people” mindset to be narrow and chauvinistic, although I enjoy my friendships there very much and have received a very warm welcome despite being gentile.

I feel the Palestinians should have a country to call their own. I certainly don’t think Israel should cease to exist, however, any more than we or anyone else in this hemisphere or Australia should. I just think Israel needs to be more compassionate toward the Palestinians and cease to treat them the way they are now. Some of their actions indeed have been and are despicable. It needs to stop.

By the way, I know several gentiles who have converted to Judaism and the temple does not consider them or treat them as any different from any other Jew. They do not consider being Jewish a matter of genetics in the first place. It is central to their tradition that anyone who converts is never to be reminded by any Jew that they were not born Jewish.

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By straight_talk_11, November 27, 2007 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

I meant “there”, not their…ugh! Stupid typo.

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By straight_talk_11, November 27, 2007 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Regarding #114528 by scottpowell:

Although their are lots of good points and information in Zeitgeist, the religion part is bogus. It just doesn’t stand up to any serious inquiry.

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By LWM, November 27, 2007 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

PaulMagillSmith,

The links you usually provide are straight out of Tin Foil Hat land.

At this point, I’m not responding to any more Pauliacs. I can’t wait for the primaries to be over. They are bad enough when they are normal without complete wingnuts getting in on the action. Even David Duke wasn’t this much trouble. The internet wasn’t what it was today.

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By PaulMagillSmith, November 27, 2007 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

Just to avoid any confusion in my previous post that is, “...and 30% MORE is in private hands.”

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By PaulMagillSmith, November 27, 2007 at 12:19 am Link to this comment

#116146 by cyrena on 11/26 at 10:21 pm
(1625 comments total)

“Meantime, just a question that maybe I don’t get, now that we’ve had this explanation…What advantage did Dick Cheney gain by moving all of his Halliburton billions from Houston to Dubai? (I guess that was about a year ago).”

Just a guess Cyrena my friend, but since the Rothschild Zionists egineered the financial crashes of 1907 & 1929, and all the signs are there they are getting ready to do it again, I’d say they moved their money into assets & currency that will actually be worth something in the world economy after our system crashes into deep recession or depression. Then they will come back in and buy up everything at pennies on the dollar. They did it before and there is no reason to expect them to quit until they own everything. The ultimate goal is world control through means of finance rather than arms, but the two are linked arm in arm; a key strategy of the NWO (New World Order).

If you haven’t already seen this link here it is again. You can scroll to the years I mentioned if you don’t want to read the whole thing:

http://iamthewitness.com/doc/RothschildsTimeline-filer/frame.htm

Another item to consider is Zionists over the past decade have gotten contol of 40% of the world’s gold reserves, and 30% is in private hands NOT governments’. Since the spot price of gold is now rising drastically it will make that commodity increasingly more valuable in terms of dollars. Since Zionists have infiltrated our government doesn’t it make sense they would try to shut down any competition…like Liberty Dollars?


Here is an article of interest about banks & the FED, pretty depressing. I’m sure LWM will post questionable links that refute some statements contained within. Research on Google and you will find plenty of info to rebutt his/her claims:

http://www.justiceplus.org/bankers.htm

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By cyrena, November 26, 2007 at 11:27 pm Link to this comment

•  #114846 by rowdy on 11/20 at 10:41 pm

SCOTTPOWELL
that was a good link. many laughs. it had new material, i am a conspiracy nut and i love anything new. but really; what did happen to that pentagon jet? not to mention the passengers.
———————————————-
Well Rowdy,

We still don’t know what happen to that jet that allegedly crashed at the Pentagon, but I still say that it didn’t. I just don’t know where it really went.

Now, we could maybe settle this question once and for all, if cheney would just give up the tapes from all of those cameras around the Pentagon, that were IMMEDIATELY confiscated before anyone had a chance to show up to check out the damage, and discover NO VISIBLE SIGNS of aircraft wreckage.

But, it’s been over 6 years now, and the camera footage has never appeared, nor has any other evidence that a 757 actually crashed there. So, I guess we’ll never know. I don’t particularly care about the airplane, but I WOULD like to know what happened to the passengers and the crew.

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By cyrena, November 26, 2007 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment

#114540 by M K

Thanks for the post MK. It did educate me. (I think). I’m all for questioning absolutely ANYTHING that the gubby’s come up with, but it’s led to some serious misery for me these past several years. Still, I get your point about the money.

Oddly enough, I can remember my naïve reaction many years ago, when I returned from a trip to several Asian countries. I still had money left over, having converted more than I spent, (THAT was a lesson for sure). Anyway, when I tried to convert my Korean money back to US money, they looked at me like I was nuts. (I guess I was). They told me it was worth ZIP. (kind of like our dollar now I guess).

Now of course I’d always been familiar with the currency conversion rates, so I knew not to expect the exact same amount in USD. But, when they told me it was worth NOTHING, I realized I would have been better off with the coin money instead of the paper money. At least I could have made jewelry or something out of it. Maybe some wind chimes.

Meantime, I’ve actually been dealing in Liberty dollars for a while. There’s a casino in my state by the name of Liberty Casino, run by a Native American tribe. (which is the only reason I’ve been there). They use Liberty dollars as well, but they’re only redeemable at the Casino, and they will willingly exchange them for USD. Next time I get there, I’ll see if they’ll be willing to exchange my USD’s for their own Liberty dollars. I think they’ll be far more valuable.

Meantime, just a question that maybe I don’t get, now that we’ve had this explanation…What advantage did Dick Cheney gain by moving all of his Halliburton billions from Houston to Dubai? (I guess that was about a year ago).

Just curious.

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By straight_talk_11, November 26, 2007 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

Regarding #116085 by PaulMagillSmith:

Thanks, Paul. On LWM, I never assume viewpoints are totally fixed for life no matter what they are. Mine change all the time with exposure to new evidence. I have changed views I’ve held for decades in five minutes given sufficient evidence, but I’m hard as a rock on things I know from personal experience to be true. That makes some people think I’m dogmatic. I just have to be given something a lot more solid than contrary opinions and baseless convictions.

Short term interest and service charges make sense to me. Money making money in the long haul without getting put to work makes no sense to me. It just concentrates wealth where it’s already concentrated. I think that produces destructive social imbalances in the long run. To me that’s the big picture even if I have some of the details wrong. I’m open to other views if someone can show they have real substance.

I view the circulation of money as an economic communications medium that needs accumulation of wealth and debt as buffers just as we need buffering in digital communications systems, as well as in energy supply and water supply systems, etc. These things come at some maintenance and energy costs and monetary buffering should also have some costs associated with it, but only ones that improve circulation and merit-based distribution instead of distorting and throwing this out of balance.

We don’t try to engineer communications systems that do that, but the super-wealthy have plenty of incentive to engineer monetary systems that favor themselves and not necessarily society as a whole. To me, that’s the bottom line.

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By PaulMagillSmith, November 26, 2007 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

After study of the reasons behind the assassinations of Lincoln & Kennedy, and although not a fan of other stances & positions Ron Paul takes, I find myself in complete agreement with him when he indicates we must get the life-blood sucking monster known a the Federal Reserve away from control of our monetary system.

BTW, don’t pay attention to LWM. He’s definitly NOT a progressive mind.

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By straight_talk_11, November 26, 2007 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

Regarding #115948 by KFFX:

Yes, and as another commentary mentioned earlier, gold and silver coins are routinely minted by non-governmental entities with no legal problems. You can even trade on the Internet in gold-based currency that is credited to your account electronically. Yes, in this case, your credits are backed by gold.

The implication is obvious. There is nothing illegal at all in what the liberty dollar distributors were doing. I suspect that they have strong legal recourse against the government for confiscating it. That was just a dumb publicity stunt that should rightly backfire badly. I sure hope it blows up right in their faces really badly. If there is legal recourse, I think the distributors of these coins are badly remiss if they fail to pursue legal action on behalf of us all.

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By KFFX, November 26, 2007 at 11:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The city I live in has its own currency
http://www.madisonhours.org/
I think a number of cities have their own currencies.
None of them are based on gold and silver as far as I know.  Some of them are worth more than the US dollar.

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By straight_talk_11, November 25, 2007 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

Regarding #115761 by LWM:

You seem to be unaware of why Ron Paul wants to get rid of the “Federal” Reserve Board. The U.S. government has the constitutional right to print it’s own money interest free. In 1913 President Wilson signed a bill that gave that right away to an international banking cartel that prints our money and loans it to us at interest. Collectively they represent essentially the same interests that not only print the money we need to finance wars, but also to manufacture advanced military technology and whatever other goods the military buys, including uniforms, food, everything they have to buy. Both President Eisenhower and President Kennedy warned us about this.

War then becomes part of a huge financial racket. Reviewing the profits of military suppliers, you will find their wartime profits often many times those during peace. This doesn’t always represent a conspiracy in the immediate, local sense of individuals meeting and plotting, but it absolutely does represent an enormous, global conflict of interest built dead center into our current economic system. Worse, in almost every case if not all, the central banks finance the industrial providers and the military on both sides.

Of course, these interests love to pretend that anyone who talks or writes about this is one of a bunch of loons who simply have a psychological need to generate paranoid conspiracy theories. A good chunk of this same, even if informal buddy system of world power brokers also owns the media and loves to talk about the liberal bias among their employees while they hire editors whose mandate is to put anything they don’t like at the bottom of the back pages while the stuff they like goes into the headlines. All of this is naturally done in the name of balanced coverage and is so much more believable and effective than outright censorship.

Do you think that in spite of thousands of years of world history loaded with every kind of conspiracy and conflict of interest we should accept that suddenly our civilization has advanced beyond such things? Do you suppose that anyone who thinks conflicts of interest or conspiracies of any kind still exist at the pinnacles of power should be quarantined either literally or figuratively in terms of their ability to communicate effectively? If you do, welcome to the gang of world power brokers who are trying, with more than a little success, to run things.

Also, please consider that money is printed as loans to our government in whatever amount, huge credits to a client with a huge debt and correspondingly rotten credit by any normal standards. Does this make for a government truly answerable to the people or to its creditors? Don’t these same creditors also hold out the carrot that they can keep printing as much as our government decides it needs, since it’s not backed up or redeemable by anything?

Further, you might consider that money generated with interest at its very source is an automatic debt generator that has no choice but to print more money just to pay the interest on itself. A lovely, perpetual debt generating scheme for the banking cartel that pulled off this coup d’etat in 1913. President Wilson regretted signing that bill for the rest of his life and our forefathers warned us against this, but we citizens have been asleep.

Of course, if such conflicts of interest and common interests among the powerful really don’t exist, then maybe price fixing doesn’t either, nor the kind of corporate criminality we’ve witnessed with Enron, money laundering, nor any kind of political corruption, etc. Well, please allow me to politely but insincerely wish you sweet dreams while I wonder when more real patriots among American citizens are going to wake up. We love our country and want to keep it. The real traitors among us are those who accept any garbage the power brokers want us to swallow in the name of the bogus patriotism epitomized in the phrase “love it or leave it”.

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By LWM, November 25, 2007 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

Timing is everything.

Brains help, too. How this is connected to the “vast conspiracy against Ron Paul” escapes me. It does give him more publicity than he desreves. Maybe that’s the plan, eh?

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, November 25, 2007 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

For hundreds of years various mints have sold everything from Zodiac to Presidential spouse coins in precious metals, the idea of selling a francise is nothing new either.

Unfortunately, the government will spend millions and cause others to spend millions before this goes to trial.  I hope good citizens will see this for what it is, more government intrusion and vote “not guilty”.

It’s interesting to note that Liberty dollars have been on sale for years, this bust only occured after Ron Pauls’ likeness was minted.

Timing is everything.

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By LWM, November 25, 2007 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

what did happen to that pentagon jet? not to mention the passengers.

They are in Paolo’s libertarian utopian paradise sipping on Cuba Libres and Banana Daquiris on the private beach.

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By LWM, November 25, 2007 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

Why is the place overrun with conspiracy theorists?

Read the damn affadavit and warrant.

http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/meckdeck/pdfs/USAVLibdoll.pdf

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/11/spreading-wackiness.html

It was a money-laundering ponzi scheme.

Debunking the crackpot myths about the federal Reserve

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/fedmyths.html

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Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, November 21, 2007 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

The Federal Government and the Federal Reserve create currency that has lost about thirty percent of its value against major foreign currencies (the Euro, Japanese Yen, and even the Canadian dollar)in the course of about a year. Yet no one suggests busting in on these criminals and hauling them off to jail.

Who are the bigger criminals: the guys who mint coins of authentic value, containing precious and semi-precious metals that will maintain their value; or the guys who produce only paper fiat money?

As a libertarian, I’ve maintained for years that governments are just bigger, better financed versions of organized crime. The main difference between the Mafia and the federal government is that the Mafia charges less for its services. Also, if you don’t want to join the Mafia’s army, you don’t have to. With the Feds, if they want to attack another gang somewhere else, they can grab your fresh-faced, 18-year-old son, and make him fight. This is patriotically referred to as a “draft.”

If the Mafia is really ticked off, they can kill, at worst, maybe a hundred rivals in a terrible gang war. If the US government gets ticked off, it can and will kill millions of rivals in its terrible gang war.

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By rowdy, November 20, 2007 at 11:41 pm Link to this comment

SCOTTPOWELL

that was a good link. many laughs. it had new material, i am a conspiracy nut and i love anything new. but really; what did happen to that pentagon jet? not to mention the passengers.

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Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, November 20, 2007 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

The government gets very upset when anyone tries to horn in on their legalized monopoly on counterfeiting. If you tried to print bank notes backed by nothing, you’d be arrested. But if the government does it, that’s okay.

The problem here is, there was no counterfeiting involved. This company simply made coins of authentic, precious metal-backed value.

The government gets even more upset when you create money demonstrably superior to the dreck they produce.

People have the right to engage in free trade among themselves, using whatever standard of exchange they prefer (so long, of course, there is no fraud involved).

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 20, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

#114426 by cyrena on 11/19 at 12:54 am: “...since I’ve got some gold and silver laying around that I’d be happy to turn into coins with an image of my dog, Liberty. But, nobody would accept that at the market in exchange for groceries…”

#114540 by M K on 11/19 at 1:19 pm: “...the US Dollar is valueless fiat money…”

Ha ha, so someone finally produced a currency that was worth something, eh….. except that they put that awful face on it, uhh, or should I say that they produced a currency that was worth at least the same as the Fed’s dollars (exactly nothing!).

Perhaps the next pressing will at last have Hu Jin Tao’s face on it…... or what’s-his-name from Japan!?!?

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By scottpowell, November 19, 2007 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Armed Rebellion?  I am too busy watching my NASCAR and eating my Wendy’s hamburger.  If that isn’t it, I’m usually sitting around with my thumb in my ass!  grin

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, November 19, 2007 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

The patients are running the asylum.

How much more can the anti-constitutional forces in this get away with before armed rebellion?

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By M K, November 19, 2007 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

cyrena,

Everything you said was exactly my point. No one gave the Federal Reserve Bank (which is NOT government controlled, BTW) an exclusivity on currency. At least, not legally.

The Constitution purposely did not establish a national currency. Until the late 1800’s, there were many currencies in the United States. And nothing changed to make any of that illegal. During the Great Depression, the Federal Reserve Bank (again, a PRIVATE entity) offered US citizens the full faith and credit of their “dollar” notes, which were no longer backed by gold or silver; they were only backed by “trust” in the entity. ie: the US Dollar is valueless fiat money. Over the years, things became quite ambigous and people started to believe that the Federal Reserve Note was the official currency of the United States and that the Federal Reserve Bank was the official bank of the United States of America.

But that is NOT the case. These “Liberty Dollar” people do have a right to coin their own currency, so long as it’s backed by silver or gold, as the Constitution calls for (it’s NOT ambigous, as you suggest, it’s plain English).

As for your counterfeiting argument: it does not apply here. These people were not counterfieting the Federal Reserve Note Dollar with something of zero value (which IS a crime). They were producing their own, clearly distinct currency, and not attempting to deceive the public into confusion between the two different currencies.

Basically, my point is that we shouldn’t just assume that something is “illegal” because the government doesn’t like it. We should ask the government EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY MAKE ANY CLAIM WHATSOEVER: “what is the crime here?” Because this nation is quickly running out of freedom and liberty. Which will not change unless we begin to question the motives of those in charge.

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By scottpowell, November 19, 2007 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

LISTEN UP EVERYONE, IF YOU HAVE NOT READ “SECRETS OF THE TEMPLE” (The Fed) Watch this movie online http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com.  This will give you rare insights on religion, The Fed and 9/11.

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By cyrena, November 19, 2007 at 1:54 am Link to this comment

Good questions MK. Thing is, I don’t know any more than you do, since this was all we got in the way of details.

My guess about the ‘illegality’ of them would be that they weren’t produced by the folks who normally print up the money and make the coins, so they’re technically counterfeit money. I don’t know that the media is treating it with trivial humor though.

If I had made the coins, my ass would be in jail. So, maybe they aren’t treating it with humor, but apparently, they’ve done nothing more than seize the coins, rather than to throw the people who created them in jail, along with Ron Paul. In other words, we can’t just make our own money, and use in as legal tender. It would be nice, since I’ve got some gold and silver laying around that I’d be happy to turn into coins with an image of my dog, Liberty. But, nobody would accept that at the market in exchange for groceries, and more than likely I’d be arrested if I tried to use them in such a way.

Now, they could certainly use it in other deals, like say they wanted to trade or whatever in the underground economy, or the off the books economy, thereby enriching whomever might be in the business of collecting gold or silver. But, as legal money, it’s just not worth anything in the bank, at least not with the image of Ron Paul on it. Not even if it were solid gold encrusted with diamonds.

So, it would appear that the Constitution has some ambiguities to it, eh? It wouldn’t be the first time that’s been noted in terms of ‘liberty’.

And, Ron Paul is downright creepy.

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By GW=MCHammered, November 19, 2007 at 12:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So why are prices high, interest rates low, credit cards everywhere, and government debt high?

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9050474362583451279&hl;

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By M K, November 18, 2007 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why isn’t anyone asking “what was illegal about these coins?”

The Constitution of the United States of America clearly states: “No State shall [...] make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;”

The Federal Reserve Bank offers only fiat money, which is not backed by silver or gold as the Constitution calls for. These “Liberty Dollars” were backed by silver or gold, so it would logically follow that the “Liberty Dollar” is more legal than the Federal Reserve Note Dollar.

Now, I’m not claiming that NOTHING was illegal about this operation, because I don’t know the details.

So why isn’t the media asking for the details? Why aren’t we talking about this issue in the context of it being one of the fundamental building blocks of society?

Why does it seem like the media are treating this as a matter of trivial humor, rather than a serious question about Federal power and Constitutionality?

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