#117139 by driving bear on 11/30 at 1:12 pm
(152 comments total)

First off its true my mother is Cherokee. Second off by thinking that if you are an native American you must be follow the far left political Ideology shows how bigoted you are.

That’s the tyranny of leftist projected group-think, of labeling and shoe-horning people.

Just like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton playing identity politics by implying blacks who don’t follow their party line aren’t “really black”.

This is the mindset that suppresses freedom of expression, and sets out to punishe people who not only think for themselves, but dare to speak up.

Your friend Cyrena, whose posts I now avoid along with “uhh Chalmers”, is among the worst offenders here at TruthCrapDig

“Real” Indians have to conform to whatever her idiotic image of what a “real” Indian is. And the same goes for any other ethnic or religious group. Leftist identity-politics is tedious and degrading.

to Cyrene and Douglas

First off its true my mother is Cherokee. Second off by thinking that if you are an native American you must be follow the far left political Ideology shows how bigoted you are.

Second as for Rush Limbaugh I know you and the far left are just jealous of his success. FYI his rating are 22 million listens a week. How did the far left radio network Air America do . Now I remember it went bankrupt in less that a year.

So now I am going to enjoy the sabbath and see you back in the “ Arena of Ideas “ Sunday afternoon.

P.S. Try to come up with some new material by then.

#116916 by Douglas Chalmers

• If your mother really was Cherokee, she would be utterly ashamed of you!
Douglas, I was going to say the very same thing myself, but decided it wasn’t even worth it, if for no other reason than the fact that he’s GOTTA be lying, as usual. Seriously, the guy’s a nutcase. The Rush Limbaugh quote proved it. (I mean, I knew long before this, but he continues to convince anyone who may have ever doubted it for this long).

So, don’t even waste your time or energy Douglas. He’s so close to the edge at this point, that it’s only a matter of time. You can actually monitor the deterioration just by trying to read his stuff. (if one is so inclined). After a while though, the stupidity will finally cease to amaze you.

The only concern I would have is that people this crazy can in fact be dangerous to others as well as themselves. Lets take his hero, george bush, as an example. Now we all know that georgie has descended into the absolute pits of the madness, drunk and totally out of his mind, 24/7. And, that would be OK, if he wasn’t in a position to do so much destruction to the rest of us. We could just wait until he figures out how to make the knot in the rope, and then staggers along until he can manage to get it around his neck. But ALAS, he has people propping him up, and preventing him from hurting himself, but they haven’t prevented him from massacring the rest of us.

This pathetic being on this website though, (the crawling worm that likes to imagine himself as a driving bear) probably doesn’t have such protection. There don’t appear to be any sane adults around to monitor what he writes, or what he listens to (Rush Limbaugh? the doper of all time..? like didn’t he get up to like 40 oxycotin a day or something close? – maybe more? That’s why the idiot can’t hear)

So, based on that, we can assume that there aren’t any intelligent people around to intercede on his behalf. And, left to his own devices, he’ll self-destruct soon enough. Then again, if a REAL Cherokee ever saw what he was writing, they’d probably put him out of his misery a whole lot sooner.

We can always hope, but I wouldn’t waste any mental energy on it.

#116911 by driving bear on 11/29 at 4:37 pm - to #116892 by cyrena on 11/29 at 2:55 pm - “First off cyrana or should I say cry baby… The lord and savior JESUS CHRIST commanded us to speak the truth , he did not tell us to PC or polite...”

Hypocrite, driving bear (you earned that title).

Your stupidity never ceases to surprise me. First off lets gets a few things clear. Jesus, and all the others you so despise, DID say “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (the Golden rule).

If your mother really was Cherokee, she would be utterly ashamed of you!

I don’t hate you, driving bear, I feel sorry for you because all you have are lies and hate.

However with that being said when you talk your NAZI shit I will come down on like a ton of bricks.......

to #116892 by cyrena on 11/29 at 2:55 pm
(1661 comments total)

First off cyrana or should I say cry baby I will continue to speak my mind if you are offended by it tough.

Second its just like a liberal like yourself when they can’t lose a debate to try to silence the opponent.

Third I hope you do continue to read my post and hopefully something I say will enter that thick head of yours.

forth I want other people to read my posts.  That the point of making them available on a public forum.

I know for you this site is cheaper that the serious metal health care you need so I say to post away and to quote Rush Limbaugh “we will fight it out in the arena of ideas”

As for the Nazi comment by your own words you earned that title I did not give it you.

The lord and savior JESUS CHRIST commanded us to speak the truth , he did not tell us to PC or polite

#116754 by driving bear

• First off lets gets a few things clear

OK driving bear, let’s do exactly that. I’ve avoided responding to you in these posts, once I accepted the fact that you were a raving lunatic, and you’re all over the place, so there is absolutely nothing ‘clear’ about your writings, other than that they confirm the fact that you are a raving lunatic.

That said, you should NOT feel sorry for me. Please save the sympathies. You should also refrain from the name calling, (Nazi) and the threats. (coming down on me like a ton of bricks) In short, you will NOT do any of those things.

Rather, you can continue to display as much of your ignorance as you would like, (via these blog threads) since it’s actually informative for the rest of us, in a way that you would never comprehend. But, you WILL refrain from addressing me in any personal way, or referencing me in any or your demented monologues. (which appear to be drug induced on multiple occasions – so that ‘informs’ the rest of us as well).

So, you’re on notice for these things DB, and I WILL be watching. I suggest you have someone proof read your stuff before you post it, because you and your keyboard are treading on very dangerous ground. You’re out of your league here, so watch your steps very carefully. As I said, I will be. I don’t take kindly to threats or bashings, even from those who are obviously not of sound mind.

#116866 by lilmamzer on 11/29 at 1:08 pm - #116822 by randyha - This is the crux of the problem. You cannot kick someone of his land to accomadate a dispossessed person. - “No, it is not....”

So a “lilmamzer” really is a “mean-spirited little Jew”, uhh.

#116866 by lilmamzer

Alot of those 250 million have been ducking bombs from Israel and the U.S. for the past 15 years, apart from the Palestinian suicide bombers, these arab countries haven’t mounted an offense tantamount to a war of annihilation.

The cause and affect of the palistinian suicide bombers is simple, when you have nothing to loose it is easy to kill for a cause or revenge, something engrained in semites (middle eastern peoples).

It is time for Palistine to once again become its own nation-state, perhaps the world community can help determine the borders.

#116822 by randyha

This is the crux of the problem. You cannot kick someone of his land to accomadate a dispossessed person.

No, it is not.

The crux of the problem is the fact that 250 million Arabs spread among 22 sovereign nation-states refuse to cease their war of annihilation against 6 million Jews living in a tiny national homeland, in THEIR sovereign and independent nation-state.

Statehood for the local Arabs was never denied by the Jews but by the Arabs themselves.

The Arabs of Palestine could have accepted partition as did the Jews, and then they would have had their own state, comprising more than they will ever get now in a negotiated settlement. But they chose warinstead, and they lost.

When Egypt owned Gaza and Jordan owned Judea and Samaria after Israel declared independence in 1948, these two Arab states used those territories to launch further wars of annihilation against Israel. In 1967 the combined Arab states again launched a war and they lost. Too frickin bad. 

You need to learn some history. You will never have justice by denying Jews the right to self-determination in their sovereign and historic homeland. You think creating a 23rd Arab state at the expense of the world’s only Jewish national homeland will solve anything? You are living in a far-left fantasy world where some people are more equal than others, where historical realities can be ignored in order to prop up utopian fantasies. In your scenario, nobody wins. In a world of tolerance and fairness justice FOR ALL, everyone wins. That is not what the Left of TruthDig represents. That’s why this website is a cesspool of genocidal bullshit, and that’s why I like to argue from a contrarian point of view.

RE: #116843 by lilmamzer on 11/29 at 10:33 am
(566 comments total)

Lilmamzer,
I will 2nd your comment !!

#116841 by lilmamzer on 11/29 at 10:28 am
(565 comments total)

The 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries should be granted the right to return home.

Oh, one more thing.

The 800,000 Jewish refugees (and/or their descendants) ARE home. In Israel or elsewhere.

New homes. New lives. New legacies.

There is no going back to the Diaspora, to places of oppression like Iraq or Russia or anywhere else.

#116822 by randyha on 11/29 at 9:17 am
(7 comments total)

The 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries should be granted the right to return home. Iraqi Jews should return to Iraq, Yemenis to Yemen but also Polish to Poland, Russians to Russia and certainly the Palestinians to Palestine! This is the crux of the problem. You cannot kick someone of his land to accomadate a dispossessed person. All refugees should be granted the right of return to their place of origin!

That’s never, ever going to happen.
For one thing, many of the original 800,000 Jews who were dispossessed and fled persecution in Arab and Muslim lands are no longer living, and their children and childrens’ children are no longer refugees, and have made lives in Israel and elsewhere.

Get it? No longer refugees. Made lives elsewhere. Moved on.

And why single out Israel to be demographically destropyed by people who should have made lives elsewhere?

Should Italians living in the north in places like Milan be granted a “right” to move to Germany? Not without the German government’s approval they won’t.

You can go to any nation on the planet and make the same argument, and everythime it would be fall just as flat.

Not. Ever. Going. To. Happen.

The 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries should be granted the right to return home. Iraqi Jews should return to Iraq, Yemenis to Yemen but also Polish to Poland, Russians to Russia and certainly the Palestinians to Palestine! This is the crux of the problem. You cannot kick someone of his land to accomadate a dispossessed person. All refugees should be granted the right of return to their place of origin!

#116742 by cyrena on 11/28 at 10:45 pm
(1659 comments total)

Lilmamzer,
You did get part of this right, at least in your description of driving bear. But, just so you understand why this part of your assessment is correct....

Cyrena, do you even read what you are posting about???

I wasn’t describing Driving Bear, I was describing YOU the other bobbleheads like you, who have no understanding of history or the world around them, and just revert to inane ramblings.

You just proved my point. LMFAO
=============================

#116754 by driving bear on 11/28 at 11:37 pm
(150 comments total)

Your stupidity never ceases to surprise me.

Driving Bear - I hear you on that one.

#116742 by cyrena on 11/28 at 10:45 pm

Your stupidity never ceases to surprise me.

First off lets gets a few things clear

Driving bear is a Messianic JEW. aka JEWS for Jesus

Also Driving bear family tree, Driving bear father was Jewish and his mother was Cherokee ( Eastern Band)

Cyrene I don’t hate you I feel sorry for you because all you have are lies and hate.

However with that being said when you talk your NAZI shit I will come down on like a ton of bricks

• #116514 by lilmamzer on 11/28 at 4:22 am
(562 comments total)
#116498 by driving bear
Sorry to Disappoint you but the days of forcing Jews to live where you choose for them to live are over
Jews choose to live in their own land of Israel and there is nothing you can do about it but BITCH
================================================
What I like most about this TruthDigCrap website is the way its cartoonish screeds draw out the bobble-headed bigots who reflexively chant the “one for me, none for thee” mantra regarding Jews and self-determination. They never have any understanding of historical facts or motivations, can rarely string a coherent sentence together, and never satisfactorily address the issue of 800,000 dispossessed Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

Lilmamzer,
You did get part of this right, at least in your description of driving bear. But, just so you understand why this part of your assessment is correct, please be advised that driving bear isn’t about the plight of the Jews, or anybody else. More than uninformed, he’s a psychopath.

A month or so ago, he couldn’t shut up about the Conservative Christians, and how wonderful everything “bush” is. He’s convinced george bush is the best thing to happen since the Euros wiped out the Indigenous Peoples of America. So, at THAT point, we could have made the assumption (reasonable enough) that he was just another right wing radical Christian zealot.

NOW all of a sudden, he claims to be a Jew. Go figure.

In short, he’s just crazy, and full of tons of hate, and for the most part, I’m the target. If you go back and read the thing that he wrote, (from which you copied) he had actually ADDRESSED it to WR Curly and ME. The attack was actually intended for ME. (as was the capitalized BITCH – but he thinks he’s being tricky in the wording, because his friend or alter-ego “Lee” got called out about the same). I suspect that the only reason that he even included WR Curley, was simply because I’d agreed with him, or commented on WR’s post.

But, you’d have to go through the history of all of those comments to figure that out. I don’t think it’s worth it, but I just wanted to give you a heads up to what you were responding to, since you’ve been away for a while.

What a farce.  Yet, as expected, the MSM promoted and covered the meeting as if it were anything more than the Cirque du Bush, filled with clowns and acrobats swinging to nowhere.

Good read: http://tvnewslies.org/blog/?p=672

#116564 by Howard

Thanks for the cartoons Howard, I’m printing them out to use as Christmas cards this year.  Alot of them were pretty right on target.

#116516 by lilmamzer

Whose history?  How many arabs were dispossessed by jewish refugees from europe and russia?

By the way Howard has some cartoons with you in the picture, I wasn’t sure if they represented you until I read your posts, yeah they’re you.

#116498 by driving bear

Are you one of lilmamzers’ alter egos?  you sound just like her, BTW I saw some of your caricatures to Howards cartoons too.

I’ll bet Bush (who could care less about the jews) threatened to pull Israel’s money unless they made some overtures to the Arab community in which they are in.  What are they going to do to him?  Military industrialists own the Congress as much as AIPAC and they have jobs in the representatives back yard.

Here is a site that shows ‘ cartoons ‘; not the type that the Danes published that the Arab world got bent out of shape about.
No, these are like the type cartoons that are up ALL the time in the Arab press. Now they’re concerning the Annapolis meeting.  Anti-American, anti-Israel, and highly anti-semitic.
Inculcating their young, I call it.

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/cartoons_ac.htm

democracynow.org on Tuesday featured Noam Chomsky and Bishop Tutu at a conference recently held in Boston on the Palistinian situation.  Both compared the situation in Gaza and the West bank to the former aparthied system in South Africa which was brought down in part by intense international pressure. The problem in Isreal is that the corporate media reports only Isreal’s side of the conflict.  You can still see the video of Chomsky and Tutu at democracynow.org

Beautiful Israelis Practice Purity of Arms

Posted by: “amos” amosg[at]shefayim.org.il
Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:04 am (PST)
Don’t say we did not know 84

For three months now, IDF soldiers have been provoking pupils at the school in the Palestinian village ‘Azzun (some 10 km east of the Green Line).

Almost daily, the soldiers arrive with a jeep near the school, before it ends. If any pupil throws stones, they impose a curfew on the whole village. Two weeks ago, two stun grenades were thrown into the school yard during studies. On 9th November, the soldiers caught a boy, beat him up, and took him for arrest. The next day they entered an internet cafe, where they beat and arrested four youngsters. On 13th November, they announced that they would use live ammunution on children throwing stones.

On Sunday, 18th November, an IDF jeep entered the school yard, stopping at the main building. Teachers who went out to ask the soldiers to leave were threatened with weapons aimed at them.

The villagers suspect that the provocations are being made to prove to the Supreme Court a security need for construction of the “fence” there, that will block the exit of Road 55.

~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

On Thursday, 15th November, 2007, police forces demolished two houses in the Bedouin village Tel-’Arad. One had just been built and was still uninhabited. The other was home to a family of eight people.

The police also demolished the home of seven people, in the Bedouin village El-Za’arura, and another uninhabited house there.

Questions & queries: amosg[at]shefayim. org.il

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11& ar=1340

#116521 by Howard on 11/28 at 5:08 am
(237 comments total)

Although Israel fired the first shots, virtually everyone recognizes that Egypt, Syria, and Jordan started the war. Jordan ignored Israel’s repeated peaceful overtures and began shelling Jewish civilian population centers in and around Israels’ major cities and suburbs.

The casus belli was on Egypt and Syria. And there is evidence that Egypt did, in fact, begin an artillery barrage against Israel from Gaza before Israel finally struck back.

King Hussein’s Jordanian army opened up a huge barrage of artillery on Jerusalem’s Jewish quarters. That remains a war crime never mentioned anymore.

RE:  #116458 by Mary Muir on 11/27 at 9:02 pm

Mary, you are not correct.

In regard to the 1967 6 day war, although Israel fired the first shot against Egypt, ( not Jordan ), the war was begun by Egypt’s decision to close the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and to order the removal of U.N. troops from the Sinai.

Although Israel fired the first shots, virtually everyone recognizes that Egypt, Syria, and Jordan started the war. Jordan ignored Israel’s repeated peaceful overtures and began shelling Jewish civilian population centers in and around Israels’ major cities and suburbs.

#116498 by driving bear

Sorry to Disappoint you but the days of forcing Jews to live where you choose for them to live are over
Jews choose to live in their own land of Israel and there is nothing you can do about it but BITCH
===================================================

What I like most about this TruthDigCrap website is the way its cartoonish screeds draw out the bobble-headed bigots who reflexively chant the “one for me, none for thee” mantra regarding Jews and self-determination. They never have any understanding of historical facts or motivations, can rarely string a coherent sentence together, and never satisfactorily address the issue of 800,000 dispossessed Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

However, I’m sorry to disagree with you - those days you refer to aren’t over - the Arabs and their Jew-hating TruthDigCrap cronies keep trying. The difference is that today’s Jews fight back and refuse to go down without a fight. That’s why the TruthDigCrap are paper tigers and hide behind their computers. Too chickenshit to go to Jerusalem and take out some real Jews themselves, they blow their asinine cheers from the sidelines.
Hey, my Zionist Conspiracy © paycheck was just deposited in my account. Gotta go buy me another Lexus.

#116498 by driving bear

Sorry to Disappoint you but the days of forcing Jews to live where you choose for them to live are over
Jews choose to live in their own land of Israel and there is nothing you can do about it but BITCH
===================================================

What I like most about this TruthDigCrap website is the way its cartoonish screeds draw out the bobble-headed bigots who reflexively chant the “one for me, none for thee” mantra regarding Jews and self-determination. They never have any understanding of historical facts or motivations, can rarely string a coherent sentence together, and never satisfactorily address the issue of 800,000 dispossessed Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

However, I’m sorry to disagree with you - those days you refer to aren’t over - the Arabs and their Jew-hating TruthDigCrap cronies keep trying. The difference is that today’s Jews fight back and refuse to go down without a fight. That’s why the TruthDigCrap are paper tigers and hide behind their computers. Too chickenshit to go to Jerusalem and take out some real Jews themselves, they blow their asinine cheers from the sidelines.
Hey, my Zionist Conspiracy © check just got direct-deposited - another Lexus for me - my third this week. Woo-hoo!

#116484 by cyrena on 11/28 at 12:17 am
(1642 comments total)

#115394 by WR Curley on 11/23 at 9:48 pm

Mr. Curley....this is a superb post!!

We thank you.
----------------------------------------------------
Sorry to Disappoint you but the days of forcing Jews to live where you choose for them to live are over
Jews choose to live in their own land of Israel and there is nothing you can do about it but BITCH

So as a JEW I take pleasure in saying to both Mr. Curley and Cyrene ;Eat shit and die you Nazi Bastards

reply to #116485 by cyrena on 11/28 at 12:26 am

cyrene wrote
But, since I did see it, just one question…
Can we make this non-compliance penalty RETROACTIVE? For ALL sides?

I’d love that. Surely it would be as close to an all-purpose solution as we might expect. We really wouldn’t have to go back that far. Say maybe just to 1948 or thereabouts?

-----------------------------------------------------

No lets go back almost 60 to the day to Nov 1947.
The UN passes resolution 181 to divide the Holy land between the Jews and the palestinians. UN 181 gave 82% of the land to the palestinian and 18 % to the Jews and Jerusalem was to be an “international city “ run by the UN. The Jews accepted this however the palestinians and the Arab world rejected this and demanded all of the holy land and Jerusalem. When the British mandate ended on May 14 1948 the Arabs and Jews had the 1948 war and when the cease fire was signed in 1949 the Jews controlled 73% of the land the palestinians 27% and Jerusalem was divided. Egypt controls Gaza and Jordan controls what is now called the west bank.

Fast forward to 1967 the palestinians and Jordanians are pouring sniper fire into Jewish west Jerusalem almost daily and Egypt blockades the Jewish red sea port of ellat and the Syria is sending sniper fire and tube artillery into Jewish farms and settlements.
By doing this the palestinians , Jordan and Syria are in breach of the 1949 cease fire deal and the blockade of a port is an act of war under international law ,that why in the early 1960’s Cuban missile crisis JFK did not blockade Cuba but instead had the US Navy “quarantine” it.

So the loss of Gaza is a just punishment to Egypt for its act of aggression in 1948, 67 and 73 and the loss of the west bank is a just punishment to Jordan for its aggression in 1948 and 67.
the loss of the Golan is a just punishment of Syria for its aggression of 48,67 and 73

So YES lets make it Retroactive

#115481 by driving bear
• I think you left out one vital part of any peace deal ---A penalty for non compliance.
Gee driving bear…
My eyes did a perk up here…almost missed it. (which probably would have been fine)

But, since I did see it, just one question…
Can we make this non-compliance penalty RETROACTIVE? For ALL sides?

I’d love that. Surely it would be as close to an all-purpose solution as we might expect. We really wouldn’t have to go back that far. Say maybe just to 1948 or thereabouts?

Then, just sit back and watch the desert bloom.

#115394 by WR Curley on 11/23 at 9:48 pm

Mr. Curley....this is a superb post!!

We thank you.

Had lunch in Annapolis today.

Flipped off a couple of caravans of diplomats, welcome to America, hope you had a good time, pay your bills and take your troubles with you.  I was looking for Israelis but they all looked the same.

Seems Israel is ready to begin negotiations.  The U.S. has 3 carrier groups in the region.  I’m sure that will make it go well for Israel.

I wish the metro went all the way to Annapolis though, I would be a treat to see those Kyoto signatories take mass transit and quit messing up the traffic with all the caravans.

#116338 by PatrickHenry on 11/27 at 1:32 pm
(343 comments total)

Ho. the head ziojew supremist herself or are you another Sybil personality disorder.

“Ho.” is not a sentence. I suspect it’s what your mother and sister are.

the head ziojew supremist herself or are you another Sybil personality disorder.

Neither is this a sentence. “ziojew” is not a word in the English language. “supremist” is not a word in the English language, or in any other language. Perhaps he meant “supremacist” or even “suprematist”. I wonder if he knows the difference in meaning.
===================================

Are you trying to monopolize the semite name or did you know all the other arabs in my back yard are also semites, kinda kin to ya’ll.

The poster is an incoherent individual. My 4th grade daughter has better writing skills.
===================================

Keep those cards and letters comming.

Yes, they will keep “comming” and “comming”.

#116322 by lilmamzer

Ho. the head ziojew supremist herself or are you another Sybil personality disorder.

Are you trying to monopolize the semite name or did you know all the other arabs in my back yard are also semites, kinda kin to ya’ll.

Keep those cards and letters comming.

Lilmamzer,

I shall 2nd that comment !

#116187 by PatrickHenry on 11/27 at 3:18 am
(342 comments total)

I would like to be able to go to the inner Harbor in Annapolis today for lunch and don’t wish to be bothered by all those semites.

Jew-Cooties getting him down. Can’t let the Royal Patrick near any Jews. Too bad for him Hitler didn’t finish the job.

#116119 by Inherit The Windbag

Actually I was born in Montana, but I work and live in the Washington DC suburbs.

As far as reading your post, if one can read between the your smears, namecalling and jew supremist bullshit one finds very little substance.

I hope this conference ends sucessfully for all parties concerned I would like to be able to go to the inner Harbor in Annapolis today for lunch and don’t wish to be bothered by all those semites.

PatrickHenry on 11/26 at 6:28 pm
(341 comments total)

Howard all this proves to me is Israel doesn’t need any aid from the U.S.  That money can be better used here in the U.S. for schools for my kids.

********************

Why do so many of you white supremacist knuckleheads live in unpopulated Red states like Colorado and Montana? 

“Good post, Curley”.  It was an idiotic post that showed he didn’t BOTHER to read what I wrote because, like YOU, AntiPatrickHenry, he somehow “knew” what I said and meant, so he didn’t need to actually read it....AND FIND OUT!

#115394 by WR Curley

Good post Curley, but your talking to hard core zionists.

I hope the Annapolis venture bears fruit.

#114748 by Howard

Howard all this proves to me is Israel doesn’t need any aid from the U.S.  That money can be better used here in the U.S. for schools for my kids.

Driving Bear:

I didn’t specify the details, but of course a deal with penalties, meaningful penalties, for non-compliance is appropriate and necessary.

I did say “verifiable”, and “verifiable” usually means enforcement and penalties.

reply to #115396 by Inherit The Wind on 11/23 at 9:52 pm

Inherit the wind said

The answer, of course, is Syria.  Bush needs to stop being a dumb macho fuck and find a way to get Syria and Israel to talk, and talk seriously. 

Find a way to get them both to back down, even just a little.  Syria has the power to advance peace in the ME more than any other Arab state. Syria can influence Hamas AND Hezbollah.  They’ll want the Golan back, but they’ll have to accept VERIFIABLE de-militarization of it.  And they’ll have to work out a deal about Lebanon that they both can accept.

-----------------------------------------------------

I think you left out one vital part of any peace deal

A penalty for non compliance.

Consider this Israel and Syria “see the light “ and sign a peace deal. Israel agrees to your suggested terms. Syria retakes the Golan. Say six months later the Hezbollah fires more rockets in Israel (supplies or shipped through Syria) or syria moves is army into the golan Would you and the international community then grant Israel the right to retake part or all of the Golan. I purpose that in exchange for Israel accepting the deal you purpose that for every terrorist attack from syria and Lebanon Israel would be given X number of Square meters of the Golan back. If the attack results in an injury to an Israeli citizen Syria gives back 5X square meters of the Golan back, if the attack result in a death , syria gives 20X square meters back.
Also add a formula that syria surrenders x amount of the golan per x numbers of dollars of property damage

Also I think a similar deal with the PA should be worked out

Curley, (Nyuck, nyuck)
Do you even know how to read?  Did you bother to READ what I wrote? Did you understand it?

All I said was CULTURALLY there was an emphasis on education that surpasses what has been European AND American culture. Only since WWII has college educations been pushed for everyone.

Go into any elementary or secondary school and you’ll find that a disproportionate # of Asian kids are at the top of their class. Why? Not genetic superiority, but rather a parental emphasis on performing and succeeding to the best of your ability inculcated from early childhood.  ANYONE can do it with their kids, but most people don’t.  Jews have been doing it for 2000-2500 years, that’s all.

Plus (again Curley can’t read)AS I SAID education was portable wealth because you NON-JEWS and your ancestors wouldn’t let us and our ancestors own property or practice trades--and then you blame us for using education instead, and THEN have the unmitigated gall to accuse us of thinking ourselves better solely because we made the MOST of the only thing you left us!

BTW, Curley--the Three Stooges were Jewish, too!

#115394 by WR Curley on 11/23 at 9:48 pm
SAYS:  “ The AIPAC insistence on the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon; and the proposed, apparently imminent assault against Iran have focused public attention on the Zionist problem (witness Miersheimer and Walt), which could with some ease become public concern about a Jewish problem. This has happened before. “
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Wow, good goin’.  You blew the cover on AIPAC.  Unreal.  Guess their ‘ insistence’ on all those countrys’ invasions means all our officials are in cahoots with ‘em.  Won’t they be surprised!

The Zionest problem has been overblown.  Especially with the abysmal scholarship work in Mersheimer & Walts book. Panned all over the country, I’m afraid.

And I did not know that we had a “Jewish’ problem.  Thought we had an immigration problem, or a health insurance program for the country and perhaps a problem with our energy needs for the country.

Yes, but most likely the Zionists and Jews are resposible for those problems, too.  Right?  Damn.

I believe you’re really Jewish and a card-carrrying Zionist.

Why?  Because you surely convinced me that’s the place to be.

Nice going.

The answer, of course, is Syria.  Bush needs to stop being a dumb macho fuck and find a way to get Syria and Israel to talk, and talk seriously. 

Find a way to get them both to back down, even just a little.  Syria has the power to advance peace in the ME more than any other Arab state. Syria can influence Hamas AND Hezbollah.  They’ll want the Golan back, but they’ll have to accept VERIFIABLE de-militarization of it.  And they’ll have to work out a deal about Lebanon that they both can accept.

Ignore the rhetoric, the metaphors, the lists of grievances and get down to hard bargaining.

Yeah, there are crazies on both sides who prefer war to a negotiated peace--truthdig is full of them here--but most here want Israel’s total surrender or total destruction.  The crazies need to be rendered powerless.

Powering out such an agreement is probably the ONLY thing President Mussolini can do to salvage any bit of his reputation and legacy.  But since his history is ALWAYS to do the worst thing, I doubt it.

Will Annapolis fail? Probably.  If it even leaves a shred of real hope it will have achieved something.

What a pile of crap is dumped here.

Here’s “Robert”, quoting from a deeply biased Islamic web site about all the sins of AIPAC.  But “Robert”, in his usual brainless style misses OBVIOUS solutions.

1) His posted polemic decries the establishment of multiple PACs, though he doesn’t show any EVIDENCE that it’s true (never bother “Robert” though). Still, if you don’t like the PAC laws vote in congressmen and senators pledged to change them.  All the TV ads in the world can’t overcome a well-run door to door campaign bolstered by the FACTS being in peoples’ faces.  Or don’t you believe in democracy, “Robert”?

2) Magically, this same site knows about ADL arrests, but somehow this never made it into the mainstream news.  But again, “Robert” misses the simple and obvious: Arrest law-breakers and try them for their offences--and jail or fine them as the law calls for.

3) Howard’s list of achievements by Jews and by Israelis is twisted by the neo-nazis here as a claim that Jews are somehow genetically superior.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  What Howard is saying is: “LOOK how valuable Israel is--this is what you want to throw away!” There’s no genetic factor, but there is a cultural factor.  There has been a tradition for over 2000 years of scholarship and education among Jews.

As Jews were pushed from pillar to post around Europe, today welcome, tomorrow expelled, they were forced to carry any assets that had as portably as possible.  And the MOST portable asset you can have is education.

Contrary to the traditional lies about Jews handed down in Europe, Jews don’t worship money over everything else.  No, in Jewish culture the scholar has ALWAYS been admired and held a higher status than the nobleman or the tycoon.  In Europe, it was Church, kings, nobles, and the wealthy, respected FAR more than the scholar. The Church, the kings, the nobles and the wealthy ALL worshiped money. And they stole an awful lot of it from the working people.

But in Jewish culture, having a son become a scholar is preferable to having him become a millionaire.  And THAT is why so many Jews are scientists, writers, lawyers, doctors, and have made contributions to progress far in excess of numbers.

3) Other cultures have such traditions--are your kids struggling to compete in school because all the best students are children of Asian immigrants? Tough shit! THEY know the value of education.  Did you realize that virtually EVERY motherboard is made in a tiny strip on Taiwan?  Do you hate the Taiwanese for having a monopoly on their production AND creating huge problems for us with mainland China?

4) Not ONE person here has talked (realistically) about what needs to be achieved at the Annapolis conference is progress is to be made. It’s all either “hopeless” or “Israel needs to concede everything” or “Israel needs to be destroyed.” Not one concrete idea.

#115005 by WR Curley on 11/21 at 3:24 pm: “Race is a myth. The Jews are a myth they retell to each other endlessly, generation to generation. ....The underlying structures of Jewish culture are tribal. This is an outmoded worldview. It cannot be sustained without an endlessly re-enforced back story....”

Actually, there may be no one single Jewish “race” - and they certainly don’t like black Jews from Africa. If they think 12 tribes is something, the Chinese are yet to show the world what a nation of 55 tribes or ethnic groups is like. Its coming.....

Then there is the American tribe..... all based on an “endlessly re-enforced back story”, uhh. Essentially also a white tribe but with colored add-ons!

RE:  #115005 by WR Curley on 11/21 at 3:24 pm
(Unregistered commenter)
says:
“This guy Howard is a racist. He evidently believes that Jews are smarter, more industrious, and more virtuous than gentiles ("goyim", infidels, me).”
==============================

Now, Curley, get hold of yourself.  I never said anything of the sort.  Do not put words into my mouth and misrepresent me. I can do it myself..  Refute what I said, please; and in a rational way, perhaps?

Man, you is all over the lot.  What really are you trying to say?

I suspect you’re Jewish.  So get with it.

And get a better listening hat when tuned to NPR; I think they are all Catholics.  How can you tell they’re not.?

And another thing, if this all-powerful group is only 1.5% of the population, you should be happy you’re Jewish.  Go with the flow and your mind won’t be, as you say, so boggled.

And if Israel is a little tiny tribal state, as you say, what is your problem exactly?.  Are they bothering you?  Threatening you?  They just want to be left alone. 

I always defend the underdog.  So I don’t mind defending you, either.

You are welcome.

Jeff Robins, Wall St. Journal

* If history is any guide, next week’s meeting in Annapolis will yield unsatisfactory results, Israel will be blamed for failing to make the requisite concessions, and the Bush administration will be criticized for its “failure to engage.” The problem is that all too often, those who blame the U.S. for failing to deliver Mideast peace are some of the world’s most culpable enablers of Mideast violence - and those who are themselves actually responsible for erecting the fundamental roadblocks to a resolution of the conflict.

* It was the Arab bloc, including the Palestinian leadership, that decided to reject the UN’s 1947 partition of Palestine into two states, Arab and Jewish, living side by side. Instead it invaded the nascent Jewish state rather than coexist with it, spawning the conflict that has so burdened the world for the last 60 years.

* We are also not responsible for the Arab world’s choice not to create a Palestinian Arab state in East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank from 1948 to 1967, when it easily could have done so - before there were any Jewish settlements there to serve as the public object of Arab grievance.

* Nor can the U.S. government under President Clinton be criticized for failing to pursue Yasser Arafat with sufficient solicitude between 1993 and late 2000. The Clinton administration was, after all, the most ardent of suitors of the Palestinian leader - only to be forced to watch Arafat reject an independent Palestinian state in all of Gaza and virtually all of the West Bank.

* It was the Palestinian leadership, not the U.S., that decided in the fall of 2000 that, rather than accept an independent Palestinian state, its wiser course was to launch a four-year bombing campaign against Israel’s civilian population. The result was not merely over 1,100 Israeli civilians killed, but several thousand Palestinians dead, as well as a shattered Palestinian economy and the decision by Israel to begin construction of a security barrier in July 2002.

* When Israel withdrew from all of Gaza in 2005, the Arab world had the opportunity for a fresh start there - to create a measure of hope for a population whose suffering long predated any Israeli presence. Instead, the Hamas-dominated Palestinian leadership opted to begin and then intensify an aggressive missile-launching campaign against Israeli civilian centers.

* Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries, whose treasuries overflow with petrodollars, are in a position to invest heavily in Gaza, create economic opportunities for its destitute population, and dilute the toxin-filled atmosphere there. They have not done so. The Egyptians are in a position to act decisively to stop the flow of rockets, bombs and other arms from Egypt into Gaza, where they are used to attack Israeli civilians. They have not done so
-----------------------

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=11 0010889

The writer was a U.S. Delegate to the UN Human Rights Commission during the Clinton administration.

#114830 by randyha on 11/20 at 8:13 pm: “Howard-- you must have received your information from AIPAC’s PR book...... Israel was selling US technology to China and spying on the US....”

Oh, randyha, you’ve upset Howard’s plans to write a PR book for Israel and AIPAC!!! But maybe Israel can now use all those US aid $$$ to buy fighter aircraft from China instead.....????

Howard-- you must have received your information from AIPAC’s PR book. The US does not need Israeli scientists to improve its F-15 or any other piece of equipment. As a matter of fact the US tried to develop with Israel the Lavi jet and waisted millions of US tax payers’ money on a failed project due to Israeli incompetence and mismanagement. Also, Israel was selling US technology to China and spying on the US. Did you forget about Pollard? With friends like this who needs enemies?

Re:  #114764 by Robert on 11/20 at 2:28 pm
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I surely hope the U.S. keeps up the aid to Israel.  Great bargain.  There is no other country in the Middle East except Israel that can be considered to have a stable government or populace friendly to the United States. There is much danger that any military aid to Arab countries, and military equipment given or sold to them, will suffer the same fate as the untold billions of dollars and priceless military secrets that were lost to our enemies in the debacle of Iran. Is Saudi Arabia more stable? Egypt? Jordan? Kuwait? Judge for yourself!

Only a fraction of the aid given stays in Israel. By far the largest share remains with American defense contractors. Peter McPherson, former administrator of the Agency for International Development, estimated that every billion dollars of aid to Israel creates 60,000 to 70,000 jobs in the United States.

Compared to the $2.0 billion yearly military aid to Israel, the U.S. contributes more than $130 billion(!) every year to the defense of Europe and more than $30 billion to the defense of Japan, Korea, and the Far East. Over 300,000 U.S. troops are stationed with NATO and over 30,000 U.S. troops in the Far East. In contrast, not one single U.S. soldier needs to be stationed and put at risk in Israel. U.S. military analysts estimate that the U.S. would have to spend the equivalent of $150 billion a year in the Middle East to maintain a force equivalent to Israel’s.

There are many other benefits that the U.S. military derives from Israel. Israel is the only country that has gained battlefield experience with U.S. weapons. This experience is immediately conveyed to the U.S. Enormous quantities of captured Soviet weapons and defense systems were turned over to the U.S. military for analysis. Israel, in the light of its experience, continually modifies U.S. weapons systems. For instance, Israeli scientists have made over 200 improvements in the F-15 alone and similar improvements, mostly in avionics, in later-generation planes. It would be more in line with reality if military aid to Israel were classified as part of the defense budget, rather than as “aid”. Israel is truly America’s unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Former President Reagan put it well: “The fall of Iran has increased Israel’s value as perhaps the only remaining strategic asset in the region on which the United States can fully rely.” American aid to Israel is a two-way street. Aid to Israel is America’s greatest defense bargain.

to #114752 by Howard on 11/20 at 1:05 pm

11. Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

12. Israel produces more scientific papers per ca pita than any other nation by a large margin — 109 per 10,000 people — as well as one of the highest per ca pita rates of patents filed
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Also Israel has the highest per ca pita of citizens with PHD on earth. This and other accomplishments by Israel is more impressive when one considers that 30 % of Israel population are children and 15-20 % are arab.

The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About U.S. Aid to Israel
By Richard H. Curtiss

“For many years the American media said that “Israel receives $1.8 billion in military aid” or that “Israel receives $1.2 billion in economic aid.” Both statements were true, but since they were never combined to give us the complete total of annual U.S. aid to Israel, they also were lies—true lies.

Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that “Israel receives $3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid.” That’s true. But it’s still a lie. The problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.

One can truthfully blame the mainstream media for never digging out these figures for themselves, because none ever have. They were compiled by the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. But the mainstream media certainly are not alone. Although Congress authorizes America’s foreign aid total, the fact that more than a third of it goes to a country smaller in both area and population than Hong Kong probably never has been mentioned on the floor of the Senate or House. Yet it’s been going on for more than a generation.

Probably the only members of Congress who even suspect the full total of U.S. funds received by Israel each year are the privileged few committee members who actually mark it up. And almost all members of the concerned committees are Jewish, have taken huge campaign donations orchestrated by Israel’s Washington, DC lobby, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), or both. These congressional committee members are paid to act, not talk. So they do and they don’t.

The same applies to the president, the secretary of state, and the foreign aid administrator. They all submit a budget that includes aid for Israel, which Congress approves, or increases, but never cuts. But no one in the executive branch mentions that of the few remaining U.S. aid recipients worldwide, all of the others are developing nations which either make their military bases available to the U.S., are key members of international alliances in which the U.S. participates, or have suffered some crippling blow of nature to their abilities to feed their people such as earthquakes, floods or droughts.

Israel, whose troubles arise solely from its unwillingness to give back land it seized in the 1967 war in return for peace with its neighbors, does not fit those criteria. In fact, Israel’s 1995 per capita gross domestic product was $15,800. That put it below Britain at $19,500 and Italy at $18,700 and just above Ireland at $15,400 and Spain at $14,300.

All four of those European countries have contributed a very large share of immigrants to the U.S., yet none has organized an ethnic group to lobby for U.S. foreign aid. Instead, all four send funds and volunteers to do economic development and emergency relief work in other less fortunate parts of the world.

The lobby that Israel and its supporters have built in the United States to make all this aid happen, and to ban discussion of it from the national dialogue, goes far beyond AIPAC, with its $15 million budget, its 150 employees, and its five or six registered lobbyists who manage to visit every member of Congress individually once or twice a year.

AIPAC, in turn, can draw upon the resources of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, a roof group set up solely to coordinate the efforts of some 52 national Jewish organizations on behalf of Israel.”

(Continued below)

Click on link/URL for total details:

http://www.wrmea.com/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm#lies

(Part I)

“Perhaps the most controversial of these groups is B’nai B’rith’s Anti-Defamation League. Its original highly commendable purpose was to protect the civil rights of American Jews. Over the past generation, however, the ADL has regressed into a conspiratorial and, with a $45 million budget, extremely well-funded hate group.

In the 1980s, during the tenure of chairman Seymour Reich, who went on to become chairman of the Conference of Presidents, ADL was found to have circulated two annual fund-raising letters warning Jewish parents against allegedly negative influences on their children arising from the increasing Arab presence on American university campuses.

More recently, FBI raids on ADL’s Los Angeles and San Francisco offices revealed that an ADL operative had purchased files stolen from the San Francisco police department that a court had ordered destroyed because they violated the civil rights of the individuals on whom they had been compiled. ADL, it was shown, had added the illegally prepared and illegally obtained material to its own secret files, compiled by planting informants among Arab-American, African-American, anti-Apartheid and peace and justice groups.

The ADL infiltrators took notes of the names and remarks of speakers and members of audiences at programs organized by such groups. ADL agents even recorded the license plates of persons attending such programs and then suborned corrupt motor vehicles department employees or renegade police officers to identify the owners.

Although one of the principal offenders fled the United States to escape prosecution, no significant penalties were assessed. ADL’s Northern California office was ordered to comply with requests by persons upon whom dossiers had been prepared to see their own files, but no one went to jail and as yet no one has paid fines.”

(Part II)

The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers:

True Lies About U.S. Aid to Israel

“Not surprisingly, a defecting employee revealed in an article he published in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs that AIPAC, too, has such “enemies” files. They are compiled for use by pro-Israel journalists like Steven Emerson and other so-called “terrorism experts,” and also by professional, academic or journalistic rivals of the persons described for use in black-listing, defaming, or denouncing them. What is never revealed is that AIPAC’s “opposition research” department, under the supervision of Michael Lewis, son of famed Princeton University Orientalist Bernard Lewis, is the source of this defamatory material.

But this is not AIPAC’s most controversial activity. In the 1970s, when Congress put a cap on the amount its members could earn from speakers’ fees and book royalties over and above their salaries, it halted AIPAC’s most effective ways of paying off members for voting according to AIPAC recommendations. Members of AIPAC’s national board of directors solved the problem by returning to their home states and creating political action committees (PACs).

Most special interests have PACs, as do many major corporations, labor unions, trade associations and public-interest groups. But the pro-Israel groups went wild. To date some 126 pro-Israel PACs have been registered, and no fewer than 50 have been active in every national election over the past generation.

An individual voter can give up to $2,000 to a candidate in an election cycle, and a PAC can give a candidate up to $10,000. However, a single special interest with 50 PACs can give a candidate who is facing a tough opponent, and who has voted according to its recommendations, up to half a million dollars. That’s enough to buy all the television time needed to get elected in most parts of the country.

Even candidates who don’t need this kind of money certainly don’t want it to become available to a rival from their own party in a primary election, or to an opponent from the opposing party in a general election. As a result, all but a handful of the 535 members of the Senate and House vote as AIPAC instructs when it comes to aid to Israel, or other aspects of U.S. Middle East policy.

There is something else very special about AIPAC’s network of political action committees. Nearly all have deceptive names. Who could possibly know that the Delaware Valley Good Government Association in Philadelphia, San Franciscans for Good Government in California, Cactus PAC in Arizona, Beaver PAC in Wisconsin, and even Icepac in New York are really pro-Israel PACs under deep cover?”

RE #114750 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/20 at 12:49
#114711 by mythbreaker on 11/20 at 8:33 am
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Here is another few.  Glad ya’ liked ‘em.

6. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D;facilities outside the US in Israel

7. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis

8. According to industry officia