#116674 by Douglas Chalmers :-

Oops, this is the Truthdig page link for my last post re “sacred cows”........ http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20071121_s audis_defend_lashing_rape_victims/

#116667 by The Village Idiot on 11/28: “...I was actually expecting a counter-argument or something that would help me understand their perspective, not adolescent name calling...... eventually I make hamburgers out of everybody’s sacred cow...”

Cool, ha ha, The Village Idiot. That’s what you often get, though. Still, others are reading if not commenting....... “it is the maximum that ‘a piece of art’ can hope to do” - Sparking Controversy with ‘Fire’. http://youtube.com/watch?v=FnLMnG16yJI&feature=related

While the global village is busily plumbing the depths of human idiocy, check the Hindu “sacred cows” at #116593 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/28 to amuse yourself - there is a Youtube link too.

Mr. Chalmers: Yeah, that reply was all me, thanks to some spare time I had this morning after enjoying my coffee (hence the length). The only person I aim to please in comment sections of websites is me, and I really cracked myself up with my witty retorts to the boring personal attack my reply generated (and in the sage words of Rambo, “They drew first blood, not me!"). I was actually expecting a counter-argument or something that would help me understand their perspective, not adolescent name calling, so I win by default I suppose.

BTW: Since some of you like my name so much, let me add that I’m the “village idiot” because it’s the village that decides who their idiot is, and they always pick the person perceived as the most “other” compared to the rest of the village, but in the village I live in, the title is an honor. I’m not a big fan of groupthink, which is always heavy on the “group” and light on the “think.” So, eventually I make hamburgers out of everybody’s sacred cow, yet all most can do in response is lower themselves to personal attacks, which I will happily respond to in kind, but only in self-defense. Now, who wants cheese on theirs?

#116607 by The Village Idiot on 11/28: “...some of you guys are waaaay into this Israel fetish apparently, and I showed up at the party with the wrong outfit on...”

Ooh, did you write aaaalll that yourself, The Village Idiot? Wow - and I agree. We both most probabaly have the “wrong outfits” to please that crowd, uhh. So, why please them.......???

Even though the game has mobved to Annapolis this week, it is really all being played in the minds of Americans. Who else would be so stupid as to be deluded by ancient and irrelevant fantasises about unwashed dirty old men in flowing robes in some rock-strewn arid semi-desert?

Ok, some of you guys are waaaay into this Israel fetish apparently, and I showed up at the party with the wrong outfit on (blasphemer!).

We have these cultural fossils known as “royalty” meeting to apparently do some typical behind-the-scenes scheming to make sure the right folks stay rich, and of course swords were rattled and veiled threats were implied in a same-old same-old continuation of the brinksmanship that’s defined the Middle East since Israel became a nation, but then we get some propagandistic anecdote about christians upset about being spit on by “jews.” That’s where it crossed into fetishism, which in a political context appears as a single-minded obsession with a particular group; all evil stems from Israel, Israel secretly runs the whole world, jews are intolerant hypocrites, you can’t get worked up in a political discussion unless it’s about Israel, etc… Well, I guess the House of Saud are zionist shills too then, as is Queen Elizabeth and anyone else who is apparently profiting from recent events. Seems to me there’s another camp lurking in the tubes of the interweb saying the same things about the Vatican, even saying that the vatican is really behind the zionists, and those people have their own vast amount of incontrovertible evidence too.

I have no dog in this fight; I’m just looking around and listening to what people have to say, and reading a never-ending liturgy of demonization of a large, disparate population (i.e. “jews") is a little off-putting to say the least, not to mention it’s not helping. You want to win others over to your view, but I’m just telling you that this isn’t the way to do it, unless you like preaching to the choir but being ignored by everyone else. I’ve read enough articles and seen enough of the relevant pictures to agree, for example, that 9/11 was an inside job and that parts of our own and Israel’s government had likely worked on it together. We don’t need irrelevant incitements like anecdotes of people spitting on each other, and I never stated or implied that this kind of intolerance was a “trivial” aspect of religion; on the contrary I see it as a central reason to move past ALL religion, as NONE are exempt from intolerance.
(continued...)

(...continued from above)
So the neocons have their secret plan, and behind them is the real secret plan of their masters, the zionists, but behind the zionists is the vatican, which itself is secretly run by the international banking families who are in turn probably controlled by the paranoid fantasies of their own tortured minds. There have always been a bunch of type-A personalities in secretive groups constantly fighting each other for control of whatever is perceived to be controllable, and they all want to be Number One so they all pretend to help each other while simultaneously plotting each other’s destruction, and this dynamic tension between the centers of power creates a precarious balance that occasionally gets out of whack, like now. Lots of people get killed, stuff gets broken, then it’s out of our system for awhile, until next time. The force ultimately behind this is not “zionism,” it’s greed and a fear-based compulsion to be in control, and that’s a part of every one of us to some degree. The “ism” secretly running the world today will just be exchanged for another tomorrow until this underlying flaw in our minds?culture?DNA? (not sure where it comes from) is fixed, or civilization melts down (whichever comes first). It’s all connected.

So thanks for continuing to post information designed to piss people off, but then offer no remedy or even speculation about a solution, oh and be sure to circle the wagons and get cliquish when someone makes a comment questioning or critiquing something but offer no real rebuttal beyond reaffirming one’s membership in that clique. “Yep, he shore is an idiot.” “Mmm-hmm, picked his handle real well, he did.” “Yep.”

Thanks also for acknowledging that my cheap posturing was at least “intellectual,” by the way, and feel free to add the “intellectual” part to your own cheap posturing any time, since I really don’t know how to respond to comments that I’m living up to my name… well, duh! As if we aren’t all idiots, really, we just like to tell ourselves otherwise most of the time.

Peter, the Village Idiot chose his handle well.

Quote from Peter RV: “The Village Idiot is trying to idiotize his readers”

Curses, my plan is revealed! Oh well, at least I apparently succeeded in one case. 

It sure is interesting to see how words are perceived through the cracked lens of obsessive tunnel-vision. All sorts of fascinating contortions of meaning and implication are brought forth from these paranoid one-track minds that can apparently see the object of their obsession behind everything, which in this case is Israel. And this talk of sidetracking: if you recall, this was an article about Saudi Arabia and the comments have been “sidetracked” to Israel (I wonder who did that??), which seems to happen to every frickin’ thread on the net these days.

Extreme intolerance is nothing unique to Israel (or Jews, or Muslims, or Christians for that matter), and frankly I’m amused to read a Christian theologian’s letter bitching about intolerance when Christians have spent so much time and effort over the centuries doing, for example, missionary work which is nothing more than intolerance of the beliefs previously held by those who were “missionized,” and back in the day intolerance manifested as torture and execution, so being spat on would’ve been a kind of mercy in comparison, though it’s still ape-like.

Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture (historically speaking) does not make me a zionist shill or whatever you were trying to imply, which I find incredibly funny. This statement you made was intriguing: “This is obviously, an attempt to “control the damage” practiced daily by our tribal Jews when faced with the truth.”

First, who are you quoting when you put “control the damage” in quotes? Second, who are the “tribal jews” and why are they “our” tribal jews? Who are “we?”

Ah nevermind, I’m just messing with you a little because it’s so much fun to stir up the zealous and watch the grammatical spittle fly in their rage against the abstract mental construct they perceive as their enemy du jour. And the fact that I repudiate Christianity, Judaism, AND Islam does not make me an atheist, since atheism implies a degree of perceived cosmological certainty equal to religion’s, and to be intellectually honest I’d have to say I just don’t know the ultimate Truth of the Universe so I’m more shamanic-agnostic, but thanks for playing.

Ahh, if only we could just stop at spitting on each other, or maybe hurling feces if greater emphasis is desired, or other similar behaviors easily recognized and understood by lower primates in a truly astounding example of cosmic irony. I mean, c’mon, the devout acting just like the apes we are in no way descended from? That’s awesome! And hell, I always thought this kind of thing is a milder example of what organized religion’s all about…

The problem ain’t religious extremism, the problem is obviously religion itself. Extremists are just being truer to the doctrines of their respective religions. Just ask the Saudi woman who was raped and is now being treated like a criminal recently about how faithful adherence to religious principles feels, then ask yourself (if you’re an American) why Saudi Arabia is an “ally,” and why we’re in no hurry to “spread freedom and democracy” there.

Peter RV, the article you cite, while interesting, should not come as a surprise to anyone given that Israel is a state founded upon Zionism, a doctrine that inculcates both racism and religious intolerance.

It seems they need to loose their teeth.

#114300 Douglas Chalmers

• Agreed, cyrena, but why didn’t you just tell that prick to “piss off”

Douglas,

Tempting, but far too easy, and it wouldn’t have accomplished anything . This issue (because this latest post from Lee is one of only many that basically say the same things) is far too serious.

For starters, he has singled out and attacked me, personally, on too many occasions, and this was just more of the same, though he attempted to avoid using any names, or directing it to anyone specifically.

But, that’s minor compared to the underlying damage that he and others like him actually intend to cause. His propaganda and lies on this particular website are only a small, (and less sophisticated) part of a larger effort by these neocon extremists to perpetuate what has recently been referenced as “Isalmofascist Awareness”. It is an attempt to spread racist propaganda and portray not necessarily just Islam, but anything that interferes with their own hate agenda, as something extreme and dangerous. And, it’s been an actual ‘movement’ of these crazies, descending on campuses throughout the country, in an effort to stifle or otherwise shut down any intellectual or critical thinking and discourse about these issues.

In short, the intent is to stifle the truth wherever it might come to the fore, because these people can’t allow the truth to surface, and/or allow the populace to make their own decisions based on the truth. They’ve used this fear mongering and demonization of anyone who WOULD bring these issues out in a truthful light, in order to continue to perpetrate the propaganda. The strategy is as old as dirt, but the tactics vary.

This is what we’ve had far too much of for the past 7 years, as advanced by the fascist controlled mainstream media, who intentionally manipulated the events of 9/11 to kick this whole thing off, and manage to convince far too many Americans that Saddam Hussein was somehow responsible for those attacks, thereby allowing Americans to believe that the illegal acts of invading and occupying a sovereign nation state was somehow acceptable.

You see that he mentioned these alleged dancing or cheering Palestinians, which he says “we all saw”. Well no doubt, in the hours and days immediately following those events, the MSM must have displayed that footage a billion times. However, there was never any proof or reason, (other than their own inferences) to believe that those were even Palestinians in that footage, or that they were ‘cheering’ the occasion of 9/11. For all we know, they could have been peasants in the mountains of Morocco, cheering the opening of a new well or water plant, or a collection of sheep headers in the midst of a festival of some sort. That’s how totally corrupt and intentionally misleading this administration is, and they’ve had the media as their own tool in perpetrating these lies and propaganda, intentionally or through ignorance.

And for a while, it worked. It worked because we were in shock. It worked as a massive sort of a brainwashing, until more critical and clearer thinking could kick in, and until these thugs were finally forced to come up with a pretend investigation of 9/11, and a phony story about how or why it all happened. That was (at least in part) their undoing, because the lies became all too obvious. The plan has been to keep Americans in perpetual fear of this omnipresent ‘boogeyman’ of “Islamic terrorists” and they’ll go to any lengths to do it, even when it means accusing other perfectly patriotic Americans of being Islamic terrorists themselves.

So, the only way to shut down the lies of the Lee’s of the world, is to call them out, and counter their lies with the truth, (no matter how ugly it may be) and of course that is exactly what they fear the most..that the truth will out, and that responsible people with decide for themselves, how ‘dangerous’ something and/or someone is or is not…and WHY.

#114290 by cyrena on 11/18 at 7:29 am: - #113948 by Lee: “...This is NOT a position of ‘left-wing extreme’.... It is exactly what it is, and it is what all people see, unless they choose not to. There are MANY views expressed on this website, including yours, which I personally find despicable. Still, you are allowed to post them, and others will do the same....”

Agreed, cyrena, but why didn’t you just tell that prick to “piss off”!?!?

#113948 by Lee

• I know this website reflects an extreme left wing view, but I was surprised that the website didn’ monitor the extreme hate mail.

Well Lee, this website, (which I’ve been reading for a very long time) does NOT reflect any extreme ‘left-wing’ view.  Neither does monitor extreme hate mail, which is why YOU’VE been allowed to post here, and accuse others of things that simply have not been stated on this site, and are inaccurate portrayals of what actually HAS been stated.  Here are some examples…

• The radical Islamists lies that are being propagated include disinformation, plus efforts to rewrite history, including denial of the holocaust.

Lee, I have YET to read any comments on this site that would deny the holocaust, and I’m assuming that you’re speaking of the European Holocaust, from the prelude to WWII, in which millions of Jews (as well as their Christian supporters) were exterminated. NO Lee, while I’ve certainly heard/read a large number of neurotics like yourself make that accusation, (the denial of that particular holocaust) the fact of the matter is that you’re lying, because there are few people in the world who are NOT aware of that holocaust as perpetrated by the Nazis under the insanity of Hitler, and others like him. (Stalin, Mussolini, etc).

So, find me someplace, on this site, where any poster has made such a claim about THAT holocaust, (because clearly, there are implicit denials of the multitude of OTHER holocausts that have occurred, such as the one that kicked off this great nation of ours by eliminating millions of the Native peoples who occupied it for about 10,000 years before it was ‘discovered’ by the Europeans). Talk about re-writing and/or ignoring history. We KNOW that wouldn’t be the ‘holocaust’ to which you are referring.

Still, no one here has ever claimed, (at least to my own knowledge) that the only holocaust you or the rest of the world seems to recognize, did not happen. No. We are not stupid, and even if somebody wanted to disregard it, there is no possible way to do that. It is in every history book provided in the educational system of this country, EVEN IF that holocaust had zero to do with us here in the U.S., aside from our willingness to enter a war as a result of the atrocities of Hitler and his Nazis. Needless to say, the ‘good Germans” of that country obviously closed their own eyes to those atrocities while they were happening, and I see the same thing here, as so many people have closed their eyes to the atrocities being perpetrated by the current administration. And, you’re right. When those atrocities continue to be perpetrated against us all, with little end in sight, they will make no distinction between you and anybody else.

I have also failed to read or hear from what you describe as “Islamic Extremists”. That is not to say that Islamic Extremists do not exist, because they do. The impact of Islamic extremists on our own soil however, has been minimal. We have suffered far, far more from domestic terrorism than we have from terrorism perpetrated by Islamic extremists, - HERE ON OUR OWN SOIL. 9/11 does not count in respect to Islamic terrorism, because to date, there is no evidence or bona fide proof that Islamic terrorists were responsible for the catastrophe of 9/11/2001. To date, we don’t KNOW who perpetrated those acts. We only know what the current administration has presented as the ‘official conspiracy theory’, and physics along with multiple other factors, have PROVEN that the events could not have taken place as they’ve been described to the American public.

To be cont.

Part II

Yes, there ARE some posters on this site who have (since 9/11) made possible connections between that catastrophic event, and the possibility that SOME agents of the Israeli government were involved. Here again, I don’t know how much ‘proof’ there is of that either, so consider it speculation at best. The one photo that you reference here, that is allegedly ‘dancing Palestinians’ cheering that catastrophe, is no more believable or “provable” than the suggestion that agents of Israel were involved, and we don’t believe it. Again, we don’t KNOW who is responsible for the events of 9/11. We know only that those events did NOT occur as they have been presented to us.

As for the other acts of terrorism that you claimed in this post, it is highly likely that some of those may indeed have been perpetrated by Arab Islamists, (since not all Muslims are Arab, and you’re clearly putting the blame specifically on Arabs) but my point here, (as an American) is that those acts of terror were NOT, let me repeat, NOT perpetrated against us on OUR OWN SOIL. The only exception to that was the 1993 attack on the same WTC, and from what we can gather, the blame was placed on Islamic actors. (at least that’s who was ultimately changed and punished accordingly.)

The acts of terrorism that you reference (Lebanon, Yemen) were perpetrated against our military, while we were on/in/ sovereign areas belonging to other nation states – not our own, and not invited to be there. So, consider that Lee. Maybe if we hadn’t been there, those acts would not have been perpetrated against us.

• We always see television news footage of Islamic people burning our flag, marching over our flag, and burning Uncle Sam in effigy ...

YOU see this stuff Lee, because you watch faux fox and other similar news providers, which are in effect sponsored by the current administration. We don’t see it, because we know better than to watch the stuff, which is propaganda created to instill fear and hatred among the American people. We also saw nothing of the sort, prior to the highjacking of our own country in the Judicial Coup of 2000.

HOWEVER, even if this is in part true, (that these other nations express this hostility toward the US) that TOO is very ‘new’ and has only been the case since this administration embarked on this massive project to control the entire globe, and insert hegemony any and everywhere, by sheer force, and at the barrel of a gun or a bomb. So, this hostility that we now see coming, NOT ONLY from Islamic nations, but from the rest of the WORLD, has happened only since the current administration has continued it’s imperialist ventures, which have involved the violation of numerous international and domestic laws. Finally, these event’s that you refer to are NOT happening here on our own soil, and so you don’t have to watch them, or even concern yourself with them, other than to possibly pose the question of WHY these other nations might indulge in such behavior toward us. Obviously, you’ve never chosen to consider that.

As for Israel being “our only ally in the Middle East” that too is an arrogant lie and a twisting of reality and history - on your part. In reality, the US is Israel’s only ally in the Middle East, because there can be no denying that in its 60 year old history, Israel has perpetrated nothing but grief (and yes – a HOLOCAUST) against its neighbors, and specifically the Palestinians. They continue to do to this day, and for the past several years, with the assistance of the US. (which might be the reason we’ve come under attack by what you call these “Islamic Extremists”. The FACT that there are US citizens who are overwhelmingly AWARE of this, DOES NOT make them ‘anti-Semitic’, nor does it make them “hate filled”. Rather, we simply abhor the notion of assisting ANY nation/group in perpetrating such acts against the peoples of any OTHER nation/group, in defiance of all the rules of law, domestic and international.

TBC

Part III

To summarize Lee, none of this is ‘anti-Semitic’. If any other nation or group was perpetrating these same crimes against humanity, the sentiment would be the same. If any other nation/group deemed itself so arrogant and superior as to place it’s military on our own shores, or on our own soil, the sentiment would be the same. As it happens, (and anyone who HAS in fact studied the history of the FACTS – minus the desire to interpret them the way one wishes to interpret them) it is clear that Israel has been overwhelmingly guilty of these crimes, as have WE, here in the US. We have done this on our own, and we have (at least in the past several years) assisted Israel in doing the same.

I specifically resent these constant threats and accusations of what any of us may or may not be allowed to do in various other nations, because we don’t LIVE in those other nations, and it is therefore a mute point. I personally am an American citizen, as were the past 8 to 12 generations of my family. The rule of law and diplomacy in international relations is a cornerstone of our democracy. (at least in theory and on paper) So is the freedom of speech. And again, I remind you, that is why you’ve been allowed to post your own set of lies and unfounded accusations here. Most people who are well informed, and able to research the FACTS of any conflict or historical events can indeed make appropriate judgments and analysis. If those FACTS concern you, and you prefer not to hear them, or otherwise acknowledge them, then you needn’t read them. That is the beauty of a democratic society. No one is forcing you to read and/or accept anything that you’ve chosen to deny. You may choose to remain in denial for the rest of your days, but you will not prevent any American citizen from knowing and/or discussing the truth. If you believe that you should be able to do that, than it is YOU who should be enroute to one of these other nations.

For the record. Mamoud Ahmadinejad may in fact be an authoritarian and provocative figure in Iran, as well as on the International stage. He is however the elected leader of that country. Additionally, he has never denied that the holocaust in Europe occurred. What he HAS said, is that the Holocaust was USED (by many Israelies) to CREATE some sort of myth that has given them, (the powers in Israel) some sort of excuse (in their own minds) to perpetrate another holocaust against the Palestinians, and to utilize non-stop aggression against its neighbors in the Middle East, for the past 60 years. In other words, YES, he and the rest of the world are indeed aware of the actions of Hitler and others – IN EUROPE-. The QUESTION is…what does THAT have to do with the Palestinians? No, you cannot or will not answer that question, but that is the crux of the argument, not just from Ahmadinejad, but from any other place on the globe, who has watched this take place.

As for Hugo Chavez, the US (and particularly this administration) has attempted his assassination on more than one occasion, and continues to demonize him. Since I do not live in Venezuela, and since I am not a citizen of that nation, my own opinions have nothing to do with anything concerning Venezuela, nor should anyone else’s. Hugo Chavez has NOT directed any criticism toward the citizens of this country, but rather against the current political leadership of this country. And, he is not alone, since there are literally DOZENS of other nations who have done the same. We once were an admired nation. We no longer are. And YES, that should concern ALL Americans.

This is NOT a position of ‘left-wing extreme’. It is exactly what it is, and it is what all people see, unless they choose not to. There are MANY views expressed on this website, including yours, which I personally find despicable. Still, you are allowed to post them, and others will do the same.

I have been visiting social websites, like http://www.truthdig.com/ , reading the articles, as well as comments which are posted by visitors to the site. I was astonished to discover how many anti-semitic and anti Israel postings there were. Some of the postings express extremely ugly bigotry. I know this website reflects an extreme left wing view, but I was surprised that the website didn’ monitor the extreme hate mail. I can’t help but wonder if this new wave of anti-Semitism is simply the typical knee jerk prejudice which Jews have had to endure throughout history ... or, a planned, concerted effort, via the internet, by Islamic radicals to use Jews and Israel as scape goats.

This phenomena is particularly puzzling, since Israel has consistently stood by America as our only true ally in the middle east ... while it’s Islamic neighbors have consistently produced anti American sentiment, including Palestinians who cheered in the streets after 911 ... terrorists who bombed the Marine barracks in Lebanon ... the attack on the American navy ship Cole ... etc., etc. ... plus Islamic bombings in Spain, England, Bali, etc., etc..
We always see television news footage of Islamic people burning our flag, marching over our flag, and burning Uncle Sam in effigy ... not to mention the teaching of hatred of Americans to children in madressas ... and kidnappings, beheadings, and death threats to western journalists and cartoonists.

Even if people are unhappy with our current administration, how can they ignore the fact that the United States and Israel are defending freedoms and rights which are forbidden by the Islamic countries. I can’t believe that Americans, who cherish our basic freedoms are defending countries who have outwardly proclaimed their fanatic commitment to take away our freedoms, and replace them with sharia law. This irrational phenomena leads me to conclude that the anti American and anti Israeli propaganda is being promoted by radical Islamists who are taking advantage of our free speech ( which they do not allow in their own countries) and using it against us. The radical Islamists lies that are being propagated include disinformation, plus efforts to rewrite history, including denial of the holocaust.

If the radical Islamists prevail, they will not make a distinction between Jewish, and non Jewish Americans who supported their cause on these websites ... they will be happy to destroy both groups with equal relish. Let’s just hope that these misguided Americans, who are being duped into betraying our country and our principles, will see the truth, rather than follow their anti-Semitic hatred before it’s too late ... or we’re all doomed.

#113622 by Ernest Canning
•
Real mature response their, Lee.  Please be sure to post the date, time and location of your intermediate school graduation so that all adult truthdiggers can be there to personally congratulate you when you move up to the ninth grade.

Ernest,

I think I’ll pass, (on Lee’s 8th grade graduation) if it’s all the same to you. Besides, that could be years. Who knows where things will be at that point, especially with people like me abusing and taking for granted this ‘right to descent’ as Lee claims. And, since you’re a left-wing extremist and a pompous ass, he doesn’t want your congratulations anyway.

Don’t take it too hard though.

Real mature response their, Lee.  Please be sure to post the date, time and location of your intermediate school graduation so that all adult truthdiggers can be there to personally congratulate you when you move up to the ninth grade.

RE: #113613 by Ernest Canning on 11/14 at 3:48 pm

Hey, Ya know what Ernie ...
You come off as a left wing extremist ...
and whether or not I get your approval
means nothing to me ... oh, and by the
way you also come across as a pompous ass!

Sorry to disabuse you of what you “believe” but the claim that Chavez has suppressed the media or of his allegedly being anti-democratic are the product of right-wing propaganda.  This particular issue, especially as it relates to the refusal to renew RCTV’s license to broadcast, is covered at length by myself and other posters, with carefully documented links on an earlier Truthdig post, Marc Cooper on Hugo Chavez, 10/11/07.  If you actually take the time by going back to those posts, reading and digesting them and can still come back with anything resembling facts that would support your unfounded perceptions of Mr. Chavez, I will be duly impressed.

Until then, I will continue to regard yours as merely the mumblings of the thoroughly misinformed.

I defend America by defending my neighborhood, my county, my state by exercising my 2nd amendment rights by owning firearms and keeping vigilant of those around me.  My military experience although lengthy, proved nothing more to me than that we shouldn’t be in most places “over there”.

You are not defending America’s democracy by forcing our version of “freedom” upon others at the point of a gun.

RE: #113591 by Ernest Canning on 11/14 at 2:09 pm

Actually Mr. Canning you couldn’t be more wrong!
First of all, I completely and totally support your right
to dissent, whether you agree with me or not.
Second ... I disagree with, and am very angry with what
Bush and his cronies are doing to this country. Aside
from our current administration, I do love, and am willing
to stand up for and defend America and the principle of freedom
... unlike you Mr. Canning, who defends people like Hugo Chavez.
Although he was democratically elected ... once in office, he has
deceived the public by silencing the press who opposes him,
as well as changing his own term limits, as well as shooting
students who disagree with him.

Lee is in favor of dissent as long as you don’t disagree with him or his fascist friends in the White House.

RE: #113579 by The Village Idiot on 11/14 at 1:16 pm

Good point. I guess there are times in history when our rights are relatively
more secure, as opposed to other times when our freedoms are more
at risk.

You know, I’m having a hard time finding the balance between “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance” and it’s flipside corollary: “The price of eternal vigilance is freedom.”

RE: #113560 by The Village Idiot on 11/14 at 11:20 am

dissent ... thank you ... I stand corrected ... and, I agree
that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I also believe
that if our freedoms are in constant jeopardy, that doesn’t
mean that we should praise and support the leaders of
other countries who have already taken those rights and
freedoms away from their people.
I guess we can all learn something from the Village Idiot.

Great take, Village.  The “right to descent” as in the coronation of the Bush and Clinton families as America’s hereditary kings and queens.

Quote from Lee: “In America, we have a rich history of fighting for the right to descent, that you abuse and take for granted.”

I’m not one to focus on grammar and spelling errors, but “the right to descent” was just too rich a Freudian slip to ignore. Very nice! And so true; we really do seem to be demanding that our decline continues. Also, the implication that all’s well just because we can criticize our gov (for now) without being shot like happens in some other countries is equivalent to saying we are the healthiest patient in the cancer ward.

“Seeing that the present was bad, we made it yet worse, thereby the future might be better.” -Some guy who’s name I forgot, making fun of religion and politics.

THE GLOBALIST CONTROL THE WORLDS MONEY, AND NOW THEY HAVE THEIR SITES SET ON CONTROL OF THE WORLD OIL SUPPLY, JUST ONE MORE STEP IN THEIR AGENDA OF ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, AND NEXT IT WILL BE CONTROL OF ALL HUMANITY, AND POPULATION CONTROL BY WHAT EVER MEANS.

THE GLOBALIST CONTROL THE WORLDS MONEY NOW THEY HAVE THEIR SITES SET ON THE WORLDS OIL SUPPLY. JUST ONE MORE STEP IN THEIR ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT AND CONTROL OF ALL HUMANITY. AND THIS MEANS POPULATION CONTROL, THROUGH WHAT EVER MEANS.

113283 by Peter RV
• #113249 by Cyrena
I don’t understand why you still try to talk to people like Lee in a civilized manner. They should simply be ignored.
Well Peter, I probably won’t after this. Thing is, he just sort of ‘appeared’ from out of the blue. (or, maybe I should say some brackish looking/sounding spew). I swear, it was like an ambush. I never paid any attention to him before, and have no idea what set him off. But, you and I both have to realize that there are these crazies among us, and there isn’t a whole lot that we can do about them. Hell, look at his role models in the White House. We’ve been stuck with them for 7 years.
Anyway, if you read/listen to his rants, (and it doesn’t take much) you see that he’s very unhinged, and that he’s got some really serious issues with ME PERSONALLY. I mean, think about it, (if you can even stomach his last rant) it’s specific TO ME, because I’ve not said anything more (and generally LESS) than most others on this board, about the evils of Israel. In part, because I know and actually admire a number of AMERICAN Jews. That’s why I thought I’d throw in the quote from Emma Goldman. (presuming that she MIGHT be Jewish, though I know absolutely NOTHING ABOUT HER, other than that quote, which I DO happen to like). I thought he might be able to appreciate it.
WELL, didn’t THAT just let off a slew of hysteria and diatribes? Now he’s got her as my mentor and my role model!!! Holy Shit!! All behind one little quote, that I personally, believe to be very, very, true.
Ignorance is the most violent element of society.
Now, maybe that isn’t as true now as when she said it, (and I don’t know when that was, but I read that quote years ago) since we now have just plain old insanity as a prime source of violence as well. But, it hasn’t always been that way. Not all insane people are violent, nor do they create it. But, ignorance coupled with insanity, (as in george bush and apparently Lee himself) creates a really toxic brew to the rest of society.
Now you’re right that he’s just way out of line in suggesting that I hate America. For that, I would cheerfully kick his ass, if I knew where to find him. (It’s really the only thing some people understand…especially the ignorant ones). But, I don’t…which is why I had to settle for calling him a chicken shit little coward. He hides behind the internet to hurl his toxic brew. For all we know, he could be posting from Israel. Howard says the Israelis have a computer in every home; probably in every torture chamber as well. And, I’m definitely not going all the way over there to find his ass. Besides, most of the people posting on this site are intelligent enough to see through these types. And eventually, they go away, if only to appear under a new label, after they’ve worn themselves into a neurotic frazzle.

So, Franker Than Frank, if you wanna get like a new identity…maybe call yourself Cyrena the 2nd or something, and try to engage him, it’s fine with me. He’s not gonna mess with you under your current ID though. He’s fixated on me. Kind of like nimrod. Remember him? Maybe he reincarnated as Lee. Could be a reincarnation of MS too. We really don’t know. (at least I don’t) But, they do have that same measure of hysteria, and the hatred runs deep. I must make a good target. I know plenty of others who would appreciate the flattery of the intense attention, but of course that’s just never been ‘me’. I couldn’t be in Oprah’s shoes….that’s for sure.

Meantime, I wonder if I should try to get in touch with Chavez or Ahmadinejad though, just to let them know how much flack I’m taking on their behalf. They’d be like… Cyrena WHO?

Hugo Chavez a demogogue?  You really have to find a better source for your information, Lee, than the faux news from the Fox propaganda network.

Here are a few demogogues alot closer to home:  Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilley, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush.

#113366 by Lee

Lee,

I suppose Ariel Sharon is your hero, war criminal that he was.

Chavez and Amadinajad are democratically elected leaders of their respective countries, much like Bush, but smarter.

Can’t wait to hang the Anti-Semite sign around someones neck I see.  Well go to the dictionary and look up semite, you will see it pertains to the arabs as well.  Holy sons of Abraham!  Could the Israelis and Zionist jews of America also be antisemites?

I have to go sit down this is too much for me to ponder.

All I can say, Cyrena, is: how do you have so much fun and I have none? It must be that you are a woman and black.

Well, I will have to remain a macho male Cauc, even if it means not having any fun getting attacked by imbeciles. Hey, I have a great idea! What if I TOLD everybody I am a black woman that is interested in catching the 911 perps AND keeping the Israeli connection exposed? They might come at me then.

RE: #113249 by cyrena on 11/12 at 11:56 pm

cyrena ...

I find your praise and support of demagogues like Chaves and Amadinajad to be abhorrent. You say that you don’t hate America, but these two despots, who you say “amuse you”, take pride in spewing their hate for America on a daily basis. In this week’s headlines, one is torturing and executing people for being homosexual ... and, the other is eliminating free speech, while his ‘brown shirt’ thugs are shooting protesting college students in the streets. It didn’t surprise me that your role model, who you chose to quote, is Emma Goldman. Goldman was a self admitted anarchist, who not only advocated, but planned and participated in murders, assassinations and bombings, resulting in the deaths of many people. In times of polarization, when America’s traditional freedoms and values are in jeopardy, there are always opportunists like you, who come along in an effort to exploit the situation by hate mongering. Unfortunately this divisive influence just contributes to the anarchy and confusion in our country, instead of building a constructive cooperation. Like your mentor, Goldman, anarchy seems to be your objective. Regarding your supporter, like Peter RV ... another anti-Semitic hate monger, who quotes French diplomats ... he refers to communicating in a ‘civilized manner’, then uses phrases like ‘shitty little counry” ... he’s what is known as a “JOKE” in any language, and doesn’t deserve a direct response.

#113171 by Lee

Gee lee,

What’s up with this? What of my posts seems to give you so much PERSONAL grief? Which post are you even referring to? And, for whom are you even speaking? I’ve never even paid any attention to you, though it seems like I’ve seen your name around. Apparently you’ve never said much of any importance though, or I would have responded.

So, I think maybe you should back off. Rest assured that I do not hate America, since I’m more than certain that it was my home long, long, long, before it was yours. I can trace some of my ancestors back to before you people came here. So know, I don’t hate my country in the least. I only hate that it’s been destroyed under the Cabal that highjacked it 7 years ago, and has since run it into the ground.

Still, this is very curious to get this really violent reaction, at least to my last post, which was in agreement with the post randyha that I cited. So, what’s up with your violent and emotional protests? It’s true that Saudi Arabia has benefitted enormously from the destruction of Iraq. It’s true that Saudi Arabia has always had security concerns. It’s also true that Saudi Arabia is an extremely repressive regime, and nope…I sure wouldn’t wanna live there.

That doesn’t change the fact that the Saudi Royals have LONG had a very cozy relationship with the Bush Royals, and why does it concern you so much that I point that out? I’m certainly not the only one who knows that, or has noted it on this blog.

So, why are you directing your hate at me? Could it be because you’re a chicken shit little coward that can’t handle those who REALLY have some serious stuff to say about Israel? I do indeed have my beefs about Israel, but they’re all perfectly legitimate. All documented. All you have to do it look up the exceedingly long list of crimes against humanity that Israel has perpetrated for the past 60 years, and all of the International laws, treaties, etc, etc that Israel has violated. And, I’m a real human rights law and order type person. What more can I say?

So, why do you protest so vehemently, about what are only documented facts that I’ve posted here? That’s sort of telling, and revealing to the world. I guess you keep count of all my posts because the truth is seeping out, eh?
Still, you give me far too much credit. I’m not the only one who knows this stuff you know. Nor am I the only one to post it. Nor was I the first. Nor will I be the last.

So, get yourself together Lee. Don’t let all of these other folks get you all shook up. It’s not until you start clowing like this on a public forum, that you make your vapid hate filled ignorance so apparent. Otherwise, nobody would have known. So, calm yourself Lee. This is America, and at least for now, we still have some measure of the 1st amendment left. It’s from our Constitution. Yes, I KNOW that Israel doesn’t have a Constitution. BUT, that’s not my fault Lee. There’s nothing I can do about that. If I had that kind of power, I would have done everything I could, to prevent Israel from their mass murder of so many Palestinians, and I’d do what I could to stop the continued crimes against them, as perpetrated by the government of Israel. But, I’m only one person Lee. So, I do what I can, but there’s a limit.
Maybe you would have better luck. Sorry I can’t do more.

Here’s a quote for you:

Ignorance is the most violent element of society.

~Emma Goldman

RE: #113191 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/12 at 3:54 pm

Thanks for the heads up ... however, as far as I’m concerned, her sex and color are not relevant for either exonerating her, or making her take personal responsibility for her unrelentless hate mongering against America or Israel. Aparently, her sex and color are relevant to you, or you wouldn’t have mentioned them as a factor that’s supposed to provide her with some sort of immunity to criticism or entitlement.

#113171 by Lee on 11/12 at 1:48 pm:-

RE: #113030 by cyrena on 11/12 at 1:07 am -
“Hey cyrena ... you anti American, anti Israeli hate monger ... I see you’re at it again ... blaming everything and anything on Israel ... even things that have not happened ... and my never happen....”

You forgot to mention that cyrena is also a woman AND African-American, uhh...... Better shut up for a while, Lee - you’re slipping!

RE: #113030 by cyrena on 11/12 at 1:07 am

Hey cyrena ... you anti American, anti Israeli hate monger ... I see you’re at it again ... blaming everything and anything on Israel ... even things that have not happened ... and my never happen. Saudi Arabia, along with a list of other countries in the region (and in Europe), are much more concerned about their national security because of all the destabilization coming from Iran ... not from Israel.  80% of us disagree strongly with our current government policy, but you are constantly putting this country down. Were you born, raised and indoctrinated in a radical Islamic country? In America, we have a rich history of fighting for the right to descent, that you abuse and take for granted. Aside from your 1513 extreme criticisms posted on Truthdig ... what if any positive contributions have you ever made to this great country, whose benefits and freedoms you’re lucky enough to enjoy. Since your steady drum beat consistently favors Iran and Venezuela over the U.S. ... why don’t you move there and post 1513 criticisms of those governments ... is it because you’d either be imprisoned, stoned to death, or beheaded? ... or, is it because you agree with those government’s forms of oppressing it’s people?

“What is the king of Saudi Arabia doing in Europe...?”

Why does Saudi Arabia have a king???

Once Iran is attacked, Israel will then want someone to attack Saudi Arabia. They are quickly becoming the most powerful military force in the M.East.........

No wonder Brit’s queenie can still afford to wear all those sparkling diamonds on her head and around her scrawny old neck - S.Arabia keeps Britain afloat with military-industrial complex employment from arms purchases in the $$billions. Search “BAE Saudi Arabia”

#112957 by randyha on 11/11 at 4:20 pm

• The Saudis are certainly getting richer at the expense of the Iraqi people but they know that a strike on Iran will ultimately threaten their kingdom.

Randyha,

How right you are. The Saudis are indeed getting richer, as of course are the Cabal oil barons of the US. (as Ernest Canning explains in his post (#112990). And, that was ALWAYS the joint plan, for Cheney, the Carlyle Group, and the Saudis. And, at the expense of the Iraqis as well as the rest of the world. (though surely the Iraqi people have suffered far, far more, we are not far behind that measure here in the US).

But, it would appear (as usual) that Israel doesn’t give much of a damn about any of that, since they’re willing (and anxious) to start a nuclear destruction of the entire region.

So, why isn’t the Saudi King begging Israel to back off, instead of appealing to the Europeans? What can the Queen of England do? Is she supposed to be able to talk the Israelis out of nuking all of its neighbors? Besides, who’s gonna need any oil after Israel blows everybody up anyway?

The higher the oil price, the greater the profits for Exxon-Mobil, Chevron etc.  One of the original oil plans uncovered by Greg Palast discloses that part of the purpose of the Iraq invasion was to limit production of Iraqi oil precisely for that purpose.

The Saudis are certainly getting richer at the expense of the Iraqi people but they know that a strike on Iran will ultimately threaten their kingdom.