Paracelsus on 10/31 at 9:21 pm
(78 comments total)

So attack the messenger, aye. I did not say anything ant-semitic, and there was nothing anti-semitic in that particular post. There are other sources as well. Please be a gentleman. Do not tar my whole argument from that source. There is a Jewish man, who filmed the collapse, and his research shows that it was a controlled demolition.

I’m talking about your source, not you. I’m saying your SOURCE is anti-semitic AND a paranoid nut-case.  I don’t know how I can POSSIBLY make that clearer.

And Michael Rivero is well-documented as such.

Yes, I THROW OUT “evidence” in totality from such sources. It’s like pawing threw a dumpster looking for edible food to try to find valid information in all the horseshit that characters like Rivero dump onto the ‘net. You are going to get salmonella poisoning before you get a good meal.

The claim of an “ad hominem” attack isn’t valid here.

So attack the messenger, aye. I did not say anything ant-semitic, and there was nothing anti-semitic in that particular post. There are other sources as well. Please be a gentleman. Do not tar my whole argument from that source. There is a Jewish man, who filmed the collapse, and his research shows that it was a controlled demolition.

Paracelsus on 10/31 at 2:06 pm
(76 comments total)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html

*******************

THAT is your “proof”????? Give me a fucking BREAK!

Michael Rivero (the clown behind that web site) has been “outed” as an anti-semitic lunatic who deliberately fakes evidence to fit his paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

NOBODY with a brain or any intellectual ability takes his bullshit seriously at all.

Naturally, he’s one of Robert-Abu’s favorite sources of the manure he shovels out in such vast quantities.

What Really Happened is that Michael Rivero hates Jew with an insane passion and will use ANY excuse to blame them for any evil in the world.

Shapes of clouds are not quantifiable or reliable, but recoded sounds of demolition charges are. You can set up a sound board, and run the sounds through an oscilloscope, and see the similarities of the wave patterns. Each sample of wave patterns can be averaged and then set within confidence intervals for resembling the mean wave pattern. A standard normal curve can be used to set confidence intervals for the time between explosion sounds as well as the general shape of each sound event. From that it is possible to say for example I am 95% sure that sound pattern is not a random explosion from fire or anything else.
  You cannot do that with images from clouds because the computer marked graphics of the clouds will not produce enough similar events to produce a reliable mean variable for point similarity of the images.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html

Above is the link arguing the 9-11 building collapses were controlled demolitions.

Someone had posted that burning house will have sounds of explosions as its burning. The problem with that idea is the explosive reports of a house have a randomness to them that the 9-11 demolitions do not have.

The 9-11 explosions went off in a synchronized and organized pattern. When events happen in non random manner then it points out there must be an explanatory causation to those events. The 9-11 explosions are too non-random to not have a cause of some sort.

As to Noam Chomsky saying there many phenomena that seem to form patterns with non explanatory variables in them. To me that is sloppy science and Noam Chomsky is not only a failed linguist, but also a careless philosopher if I may be so kind as to call him a philosopher. No experimenter worth his salt would be satisfied with unexplained variations in the results. If we had scientists of his ilk no one would have tried to prove up the special theory of relativity. He would have just said, “Oh well. Can’t explain it. Who’s Einstein anyway.”

Paracelsus on 10/30 at 11:22 pm
(71 comments total)

#110425 by Inherit The Wind

Frankly I have had enough crap from Bill Clinton. How dare him! Now I expect even mountains to collapse when an airplane hits it. I have listened to so many videos of those towers collapsing. It is so obvious, “Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom!” What do I do? Tell my ears that they are shameless and unpatriotic? Those are explosives going off. What else could it be?!?!

Gee….I don’t know—burn a house to the ground and there will be explosions.  Just because YOU don’t know “what else” they could be isn’t proof of anything. As large heavy structures within a building exceed their failure point, they fail with a loud “BOOM!”

It’s not my problem if you observe what you want to observe and see what you want to see.  People see shapes and figures in clouds—doesn’t mean God put those shapes and figures there.

Forgive my earlier post on the Noam Chomsky thread.  This one is, in reality, the funniest thread I have ever read.  Thanks to the moonbats for giving me a little smile today!

Paracelsus

please link to any video with the sound of explosives going off while the buildings fall.

Just one please.

@ #110090 by John Borowski

The Goon Squader, if you did your research, professes that both political parties are controlled by the same elites. The reason the Dems are hounded so heavily by the truth movement is because they know that all the Repug candidates are a bunch of dead horses, and that this is just an orderly change of power from Bushes to Clintons.

#110425 by Inherit The Wind

Frankly I have had enough crap from Bill Clinton. How dare him! Now I expect even mountains to collapse when an airplane hits it. I have listened to so many videos of those towers collapsing. It is so obvious, “Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom!” What do I do? Tell my ears that they are shameless and unpatriotic? Those are explosives going off. What else could it be?!?!

I have to agree. Bill sounded awfully sanctimonious with his response of “how dare you.”  Like who says freedom of thought and speech isn’t allowed anymore? The Bush administration has been so hostile and contemptous of free speech and thought in this country it’s no wonder some people still think 911 was an inside job. Even if it’s not true, for Clinton to respond in the manner in which he did, showed great contempt for our democracy.

Yay, Sheila Casey has showed up in this thread. 

All you truthers, bow down, for none of you are as truthy as sheila.  For though you believe things, sheila believes them even more than you.  She even believes things that you (or anyone else in the truth movement) don’t even believe.  But don’t question her on her beliefs, because she won’t respond to your inquiries, except to maybe say “i stand by my facts.”

Yes, thats right, you are wrong truthers, and sheila is right.  I will prove it:

1) you believe that Marvin Bush sat on the board of Stratesec, well, sheila will do you one better, she believes he OWNED Stratesec!  Yes, facts be damned, he owned it.

2) you believe that Steven E. Jones retired from BYU, well, she believes that he was FIRED!  Yes, forget the whole paid leave pending hearings held by the university, He was fired. 

3) you have given up on the whole power shutdown prior to the attack story.  Mostly because it couldn’t be supported by more than 1 person?  Well sheila still believes it it 100% accurate.

Yes, thats right folks, give up now, cause not only does she believe the things you truthers believe, but she also believes things that no one else does, things that are made up and have no basis in reality at all.  And in the end, doesn’t that just make her the biggest truther out there?

re. #110326 by Inherit The Wind on 10/29 at 4:29 pm

“He was INSIDE the building and heard 3 tremendous explosions—how did he know they were just before the plane hit, since he couldn’t SEE the plane hit?”

The exact times of the impacts have been well publicized.  Perhaps he was wearing a watch.

And its worth asking again and again - why was it w/in just days after 9/11 would Rudy fly to Israel when he had so much on his plate here?

3 weeks into 2002 and Rudy gets Guiliani Partners! Not even Ed Koch could have been so struck rich.

here, since so many of you seem to be fully unable to process anything that is not on you tube, spwnd 4 minutes watching this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx9QyLDMPmA

then check out the rest of the videos he has done.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=RKOwens4&p=r

#110249 by Non Credo on 10/29 at 8:06 am: “...The only reasonable objections to the “inside job” theory are practical - that is, how could they have managed to pull it off, how could they have hoped to cover it up, etc….”

An “inside job” - but with “outside help” - from a small country in the M.East, uhh!

Man, you truthers have been busy.

Okay, i am tired of continually rewriting the same damn things in all these threads.  You folks start going off about controlled demolitions, free fall speeds, squibs, etc etc.  But whenever i point out an inaccuracy you all get really quiet on that point and move on to something else.  So here if your chance.  You all say that the truth is out there, that you have done the research, and that you have the evidence.  Okay, show it to me.  I ask you for 3 easy things.

1) Squibs.  Show me the squibs that the truthers believe were used to help bring the towers down.  But, don’t use either http://www.flatplanet.net/truth911/wtc-small.jpg
or http://www.headsup911.com/mind/new_world_order/zzsquibs1qx.jpg
since after all, if the squibs were used to bring the whole towers down, they would have to be more than 2 places right?  I mean, 2 squibs couldn’t do all the damage.  Even better if you can find me video.

2) you truthers claim freefall speed.  Show it to me.  I want to see even one of the towers collapse in 9 to 9.5 seconds.  Come on, you must have seen it, show it to me.

3) Pulverized materials.  Where is your proof that everything was pulverized?  Again, prove it to me.

Okay, get to it, should only take you a few minutes right?  I am eagerly awaiting your replies.

109954 by Non Credo on 10/27 at 10:20 am: “... But Clinton’s sanctimonious “I dare you” is insulting and misplaced….. This pious “I dare you” implies that we’re all supposed to know of some MORAL limit to the criminality of the Bush administration…...

There is zero evidence for such a limit, and plenty of proof that the Bush-Cheney administration is deeply malignant and malevolent. Furthermore, the pattern so far has been that we continually find new depths to this malignancy: every month, every week, every day, we find out that Bush is worse than we’d dared to think theretofore…... How dare Clinton try to shame those who rightly fear and loathe the evil that is Bush…?”

BILL has just taken a big spade and dug out all of the credibility under HILLARY’s campaign!

The one thing that lawyers, judges and politicians have in common is that they all back each other up in the end. That way, they keep their immunity from prosecution intact.

Can Hillary buck this trend? She will have to now if she wants to win because validating her “new deal” is the only way forward for her. Dissociating herself from her husband, or at least his views, is something she is now stuck with!

“Akira, I don’t HAVE a “conspiracy theory”...”

Yeah, you do. Gussy it up however you want to, but you think that someone used the real 9/11 story as a cover up. That’s a conspiracy theory.

So…you want to prove that 9/11 didn’t go down like they said, but you’ll be DAMNED if you’ll show the proof that makes you suspicious. No, you would rather leave that out and hope the stuff that -didn’t- work for you will be enough for me. Thanks.

“So, let’s get that straight kid.”

Don’t call me kid. Just ‘cause I was courteous enough to let you know my age, doesn’t mean that you have superiority over me. I know 9 year olds that can hold a damn good discussion, because they ask hard hitting questions.

“There are multiple conspiracy theories…”

I’m not passionately defending the events of 9/11. I’m saying that I saw it, and my common sense is saying that that’s what happened. The fact that you are calling it the official conspiracy theory only -proves- that you are a pompous asshole. That would be like conspiracy theorists for Area 51 saying that Area 51 was the ‘official conspiracy theory’. You’ve got the opinion that is ridiculous, you are the conspiracy theory. It doesn’t work the other way around. You don’t help your argument at all when you insinuate that I, and everyone that I know, are so stupid as to fall for a conspiracy theory.

“So, keep that in mind, because obviously, if I don’t have a “conspiracy theory” of my own that I’m willing to put forth on the forum, there’s nothing for YOU to judge as reasonable or not.”

Yeah, there is something to judge. You are supporting the conspiracy theorists. I could go anywhere else online concerning this and it would be called a conspiracy theory. Just because you call the sky the ground doesn’t mean that you are right and clear. You’re being an idiot right here; just make some points instead of trying to dodge. I’m saying ‘prove it’, and you’re saying ‘I don’t have to because I’m not the conspiracy theory, so ha!’. This is the -exact- same thing that faithies do when they argue with me: they throw everything at me and say that it is the atheists’ job to prove them wrong, instead of it being the faithies’ job to prove it right.

“And it’s not a personal concern of mine, whether you remaine in the alice-in-wonderland world of fantasy.”

Last time I checked, alice-in-wonderland was fun. This is not a fun fantasy. And again, your assumption is ludicrous; ‘I’m right, you’re wrong, prove me otherwise, moron!’. How is this fair? That’s right, it isn’t. Your acting as though I am inferior and wrong, then yelling at me when I remain inferior and wrong. I tell you right now, you aren’t winning any favor with me on the ‘reasonable’ section of my brain. Since you haven’t done much besides make this personal, I haven’t seen a reason to believe you. I’ve said this a few times already, but you wanna ‘stay the course’, I guess.

“And no, I don’t remember being ‘ousted’ as a ‘troll’ on this site or any other. Are you sure that’s what you meant? Ousted? Maybe you meant something else. You sound confused. (often)”

I’m always confused, but at least I’m not an asshole. You were caught red handed talking behind someone’s back in a trollish manner, however.

Again, I have the guts to admit when I’m wrong, however. You have the guts to spit in my face and laugh hysterically about how right you are. See a difference there?

“I AM a little worried about your classmates though. Talk about creepy. This culinary thing means you have access to knives. Very scary.”

Another personal jab! Honestly, Cyrena, can you go a post without it? Nope, I guess not. After all, heaven forbid you manage to make a point without acting like I’m stupid/incompetent!

#110150 by Akira_Maritias

•  “Of course, now that you feel that you can’t persuade me to find you reasonable on your conspiracy theory.”

Akira, I don’t HAVE a “conspiracy theory”. I DO have some pretty confirmed suspicions on how and why the events of 9/11 occurred, but I’ve yet to share that with you, or anyone else on this public forum. So, let’s get that straight kid. There are multiple conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. MY primary focus has been on the “Official Conspiracy Theory”. The one that YOU so passionately defend, beyond all logical reason, even though you’ve admitted to never even reading the “Official” Conspiracy Theory.

So, keep that in mind, because obviously, if I don’t have a “conspiracy theory” of my own that I’m willing to put forth on the forum, there’s nothing for YOU to judge as reasonable or not. And it’s not a personal concern of mine, whether you remaine in the alice-in-wonderland world of fantasy.

So, just so that you’re able to distinguish the difference, (which even you should have been able to figure out, if you’d actually read my posts) the only thing I’m doing is QUESTIONING THE ‘OFFICIAL’ CONSPIRACTY THREORY, (the administration’s explanation of what occurred on 9/11/2001.) And, like so many others, I question it, because I know that what they’ve assembled in the “official’ conspiracy theory, and put forth to the American public, is a collection of lies. So for now, I don’t have a full and documented analysis of what actually DID happen, and I can’t say when I may ever be able to provide that. It’s possible, as more and more information comes to light, and more documentation can be made available. Still, my only contribution so far, has been to make it abundantly clear that what the Thugs CLAIM to have happened - simply DID NOT!

Still, I’m overwhelmingly aware of the fact that PROVING that the WTC Towers (all 3 of them) – as well as those 2 passenger aircraft- were pulverized instantaneously via a controlled and pre-planned demolition will be difficult, because all of the concrete evidence was – pulverized, and then immediately disposed of. So, there’s nothing left (as there would be in any other disaster of this type) to use science to prove what actually happened. WE CAN however, use science to DISPROVE the official lies. And, we can even use science to come real close to what actually DID take place as well. But for now at least, that’s still in the works.

Meantime, there is absolutely nothing that prevents you or anyone else, from continuing to believe in the impossible. If you honestly think that pigs can fly, then it’s certainly not my intention to dissuade you. If you still believe that Santa Claus canvasses the globe every year within a 24 hour period of time, and manages to make it down every chimney on the globe, I can’t do anything about that either. And, I wouldn’t care to try. If I were legally and morally responsible for your well being, (and the well being of those around you), than I most certainly WOULD make it a point to seek some help for you, (or at least have you situated so that you couldn’t harm anyone else) but I don’t even know you. So you see, it really doesn’t MATTER whether you think I’m reasonable or not.

In short, this web site isn’t about YOU, (or me) and comments on this blog are not about –you-. My comments are directed at anyone who has access, and cares to take something from them, in the form of information that they can consider or disregard. I have that same opportunity. I can read, consider, and dismiss anything I want, or utilize as valuable information if it appears to be so.

And no, I don’t remember being ‘ousted’ as a ‘troll’ on this site or any other. Are you sure that’s what you meant? Ousted? Maybe you meant something else. You sound confused. (often)

I AM a little worried about your classmates though. Talk about creepy. This culinary thing means you have access to knives. Very scary.

To antispin:

“WriterOnTheStorm and Akira both pose as atheists”

Woah, woah, woah. Hang on right there. I’ve been an atheist all of my life (and I’ve spent almost a year on An Atheist Manifesto arguing with faithies), so don’t even PRETEND to know what my faith (or lack thereof) is.

Moving on.

“and claim that to not believe that fire demolished these three buildings (WTC 1,2&7;) is equivalent to believing in things you don’t understand: ie the superstition of religion.”

...I really do hate it when people put words in my mouth. I didn’t say that, the other chap did. I said that I don’t believe in the conspiracy theory much how I don’t believe in God; I don’t see enough proof for either. Please read and differentiate between people before you act like an asshole. Thank you.

“Nice ruse, but there’s a logical disconnect: in fact, it is the official story of fire demolishing these buildings so that they collapse at the speed of free fall that is without evidence or science.  And to cite the Popular Mechanics guys is pathetic.”

But…I didn’t…-panic attack- WHY THE HELL WAS I INCLUDED IN THIS MESSAGE WHEN NOTHING IN IT HAS TO DO WITH ME?!

“There’s a reason it’s called “popular”: it’s not real and it’s not science.”

Like the ‘popular vote’, and the ‘popular theory of evolution’, and the ‘popular theory of poppler yumminess’...popularity does not mean false, last time that I checked…

“There is the magicians hand misdirecting us to look at the planes’ impacts; truly terrible spectacles, but the thing to focus on is the actual collapse, which is a non-sequitor.”

Yes, the last time that I checked, a plane full of civilians slamming into a building full of civilians is horrifying, thank you for letting my mind relive that sensation.

“Buildings don’t collapse that way because of fire.”

No; but a fucking PLANE hitting a building, followed by the jet fuel EXPLODING sure does weaken the steel structure to collapse.

“And the third building wasn’t even hit by a plane.”

No; but it was a VERY weak building to begin with that was already pretty much on the way to being a scrap heap.

“If you take the time to pay attention to the evidence, it is, sadly, irrefutable: controlled demolition in all three cases.”

I just refuted it. I didn’t need big words, and I didn’t even need to do much thinking. That was as irrefutable as proof for God…oh dear, I made a funny.

Moving on.

I sense psyops, and I feel like Odysseus: how to hand these guys their eyeball on a stick?

WriterOnTheStorm and Akira both pose as atheists and claim that to not believe that fire demolished these three buildings (WTC 1,2&7;) is equivalent to believing in things you don’t understand: ie the superstition of religion.  Nice ruse, but there’s a logical disconnect: in fact, it is the official story of fire demolishing these buildings so that they collapse at the speed of free fall that is without evidence or science.  And to cite the Popular Mechanics guys is pathetic.  There’s a reason it’s called “popular”: it’s not real and it’s not science.  There is the magicians hand misdirecting us to look at the planes’ impacts; truly terrible spectacles, but the thing to focus on is the actual collapse, which is a non-sequitor.  Buildings don’t collapse that way because of fire.  And the third building wasn’t even hit by a plane.  If you take the time to pay attention to the evidence, it is, sadly, irrefutable: controlled demolition in all three cases.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20071026_fema_apologizes_for_make_believe_press_conference/

That right there? That aids your idea that the government is evil. I know that the government is evil, I have no way of lying to myself about that.

It’s honestly quite disgusting what they think they can get away with. Truly, truly disgusting.

I don’t know about all of you, but FEMA pisses me off.

That is all; please return to your regularly scheduled conspiracy theories.

“Writeronthestorm” writes:

“I long ago gave up arguing with the truthseekers. After alienating a few friends and surviving one particularly ruinous thanksgiving dinner, I finally reached the conclusion that logic wasn’t the impetus for their theories, that theirs was essentially an emotional reaction to a tragic event.”

This has not been my experience. I have found many people who just find a lot of fishy stuff in the “official” 9-11 story and are looking for logical answers that have not been forthcoming.

This may come as quite a shock, but the US government has been known to lie. An interesting example of this was the obviously faked bin Laden video that has him allegedly confessing to planning the attacks. The only problem was that the “bin Laden” on the grainy video was obviously not bin Laden.

You mean, the US government LIED? Oh, my heart!

As a 9-11 questioner, I still hold that, just maybe, buildings 1 and 2 really did collapse at free-fall speed, not toppling, but going straight down, expelling shorn steel beams hundreds of feet, and reducing virtually all concrete to pulverized dust. All as a result of two jetliner impacts. I still say that maybe it’s possible—but I have yet to see a good explanation.

And then there’s Building 7, which collapsed about 8 hours after the impacts, neither of which hit Building 7 itself. There were some minor fires supposedly caused by a diesel fuel tank rupture. Again, maybe this somehow caused the symmetrical imploding of the building, with the outer structure being neatly pulled towards the core of building, then collapsing downward straight into the building’s footprint. Maybe there is a perfectly innocent, logical explanation of how this unprecedented event occurred. But I have yet to see it.

But I agree many 9-11 “truthers” get carried away and fall for obviously silly theories. This does not, however, prove that all theories are to be dismissed out of hand.

“You’re coming unglued Akira. Go back to cleaning your fishbowl. Please tell me you don’t do that at the same time that you’re practicing your culinary skills.”

Fishbowl cleaning happens on Saturday mornings…no sense in cleaning it too much. Of course, now that you feel that you can’t persuade me to find you reasonable on your conspiracy theory, you’ve reduced this discussion to personal attacks on hygiene and intelligence. Gee, Cyrena, you must have surely noticed that the insults are a little one sided here. Dare I say that you have become a troll? Oh wait, weren’t you ousted as a troll on another article?

“I never did say that, though my posts to you were not indicative of me losing my temper.”

I will apologize; I got mixed up and mistook you for someone else. Unlike most people here, I admit my errors. I guess that makes me -worlds- dumber than you, doesn’t it?

Oh, I see; I wonder what you’ll sound like when you lose your temper, if this is calm and rational insult hurling. Insinuating that I’m too stupid for college and too inept to know that cleaning a fishbowl ought not happen in a kitchen? Golly, my mistake! These are clearly relevant to the discussion!

“I’ve so far not needed to resort to calling you an asshole, or cussing at you, or any of the rest of that. Seems like you’re the one who’s pretty much lost it.”

I’m a sailor, what can I say? Then again, if you knew a damn thing about the kitchen (which you obviously do not), then you would know that most kitchens are filled with swearing of all sorts. It’s not considered rude. But, I forget; most grown people out in the world cry when they hear naughty language. I didn’t realize that a 17 year old girl was capable of using worse language than a 54 year old, but I guess I’m mistaken. Warning, this child has been rated TRA: Too Rude for Adults.

“So, back to the original deal”

Thank you. Although you have already shown yourself to be an discourteous jerk, I’ll go ahead and continue to read and respond, even though you have already made assumptions about my intelligence that sway on the lines of psychotic.

“It is not, I repeat NOT unreasonable for any person, to question the Official Conspiracy”

I never said that it was unreasonable.

!HOWEVER!

It -becomes- unreasonable when you do what you are doing, I.E, going to other people and saying ‘question it!’, and when they don’t find it to be a conspiracy, which is what you -start- by saying, you immediately say ‘well, you’re just the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen!’ and proceed to bully them while acting as though you are superior. -Then- it is a problem. I could care less if you hold an opinion, but once your opinion is being hammered into my skull over and over again with the grace of a pitbull tearing a baby’s arms off, it is not right. I am entitled to my own opinion, after all, and just because I can’t find the proof that you have (just as I can’t find the proof for God that literally millions have) doesn’t make me wrong. It makes you a bully.

“So, don’t make us out to be the ‘crazies’-”

You are a crazy. I gave you a photo that has some engine parts that were found at the Pentagon. Wanna elaborate? Or will you just sit here and gloat while calling me stupid?

“Akira, I’m glad you decided against Johns Hopkins.”

Another witty remark by an equally witty writer! Why, Akira, I am so glad that you decided not to go to a great college, because you are clearly a shit chucking ape.

Essentially. Don’t pretty up your insults just because you don’t wanna sound rude. You sound ruder when you try to make it proper, because it lets my mind ‘fill in the gaps’.

110104 by Akira_Maritias

You’re coming unglued Akira. Go back to cleaning your fishbowl. Please tell me you don’t do that at the same time that you’re practicing your culinary skills.

•  Unless you purchased the schematics for a Boeing and then proceeded to hunt for EVERY photo, which means purchasing magazines, books, movies, as well as searching ALL of the internet,.

Didn’t need to do this Akira. These schematics are a part of my ‘brain bag’. (ask your dad what that is). All of these ‘schematics’ come with the “pilot package” not just Boeing, but any aircraft any licensed professional is certified to operate.

So yep, I need to know it all. And no, the FAA would NOT be impressed with any knowledge that I might gain from magazines or movies. I actually had to KNOW stuff for those 25+ years that I worked in the industry. And, I’m intimately familiar with the design/operation of the Boeing 757. (I do Airbus and DC series as well).

Now, when did I ever say that I don’t lose my temper? Curious. I never did say that, though my posts to you were not indicative of me losing my temper. I save that for things that are really a rationale for losing my temper. So, while I never said that I didn’t lose my temper, I’ve so far not needed to resort to calling you an asshole, or cussing at you, or any of the rest of that. Seems like you’re the one who’s pretty much lost it.

So, back to the original deal, and I’ll include writeronthestorm in this part( #110134)

It is not, I repeat NOT unreasonable for any person, to question the Official Conspiracy, when the official conspiracy indicates things are clearly at odds with the realities of physics/aerodynamics, among other things. Additionally, no one need be a member of any ‘cult’ to pose those reasonable questions. Yes, I agree that there are people who have gone off the deep-end in their quest for the truth to these events. However, your example of proving the existence of God, and the government proving that AA flt 77 actually crashed into the Pentagon, is way off.

Again, for the record, this isn’t about Arabs being able to ‘pull this off’ or not. And, while nobody can ‘prove’ or disprove the existence of God, that’s not what we’re talking about in respect to the 757 that allegedly hit the Pentagon.

In THAT case, the Official Conspiracy SHOULD be able to prove that a Boeing 757 passenger jetliner crashed into the Pentagon. It has NOT proven that, and anyone who has been present or even viewed (via film) the aftermath of ANY air disaster in the past ½ century, would find SOME indication that an aircraft actually did crash at any given location. AGAIN, this is the first time in the history of US aviation, when that has NOT happened. WHY do we not have ANYTHING of the sort, from the airplane that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon, or…for that matter, the UA flight 93, that allegedly crashed in PA?

I’ve said before, this is NOT complicated. Yes, it IS something far more likely to be ‘noted’ by those in the field, as opposed to a casual observer. But it is NOT unreasonable for anyone to expect, in the year 2001, that there would be some film footage, and reports, and photo’s of that airplane and ALL of the related emergency response, if in fact it had crashed there.

So, don’t make us out to be the ‘crazies’ just because we’ve asked some very basic and legitimate questions. And, they ARE basic questions. An NTSB report WOULD have had photos of this incident. So, where are they? The NTSB is bona fide US agency, as is the FAA, operating under the Department of Transportation. So, why is this the first time in recorded history that they have failed to investigate (for the record, and in triplicate) the circumstances of those 4 aircraft, and why have they provided NO information? (books, magazines and movies don’t cut it, we’re talking fact and reality here, not screen plays or comic book stuff).

Akira, I’m glad you decided against Johns Hopkins.

I long ago gave up arguing with the truthseekers. After alienating a few friends and surviving one particularly ruinous thanksgiving dinner, I finally reached the conclusion that logic wasn’t the impetus for their theories,  that theirs was essentially an emotional reaction to a tragic event.

Recently however, it seems that the 9/11 conspiracy crusade has settled firmly into cult status, complete with brainwashing techniques, narcissistic delusions of persecution, and meme-like defense mechanisms. Apparently, if you doubt the conspiracy, you are either a terminal rube, or a shameless Bush apologists, two things decidedly out of fashion these days.

Observing this phenomenon may shed some light on the mechanisms through which so many were seduced by early Christianity. For every disciple thrown to the lions, there were ten potential converts telling themselves that if those folks were willing to die for their beliefs, then they must be true. Pretzel logic, of course, as the early Christians weren’t being oppressed because they were right, they were more likely being oppressed because the movement was considered spurious by the Jews and a festering political annoyance to the Romans.

Explaining why these conspiracies are drawing flocks of faithful followers is a little more complex that this might suggest of course. For some it is the ultimate expression of Bushbashing, although this eventually backfires, because it gives a great deal more credit to those White House squatters than they merit. For others, it is Islamophobia that drives them, they simply can’t accept that those “desert monkeys” were smart enough to pull it off.

And of course, we can’t overlook the possibility that many simply aren’t intellectually rigorous enough consider the numerous refutations of their belief system. It is mostly this type that can be compared to religious zealots. They even employ the same logic fallacies :

9/11 conspiracy theorist :  “prove there was no conspiracy, if you’re so smart.”
Christian equivalent : “can you prove god doesn’t exist?”
or
9/11 conspiracy theorist : “The people pulling the real strings are mad men with their own agenda”
Christian equivalent : “god works in mysterious ways” etc etc.

When it comes to 9/11 “truth” orthodoxy, I am an unapologetic heretic. However, I will apologize for the condescending tone inherent in this comment. It isn’t my intention to fishbowl a certain group for my own entertainment. Rather, my purpose is instructional. Can they tolerate that?

Mr. Billis (109884 + 110083),
You are quite right there are many architects and engineers that have gone on the record that the collapses of all three buildings were controlled demolition. (There is an entire organization of them, http://www.ae911truth.org.

You mention the thoroughly discredited and debunked Popular mechanics (PM) articles. Among many articles debunking PM, Here are two: (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm) and (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm)
I highly recommend Dr. David Ray Griffin’s book “Debunking the Debunkers”. For a small taste of Dr. Griffin on this, here is a link to video of him: (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=453888398303292237&hl=en)
I watched an interview with the PM author (who was obviously no scientist or even a professional). When asked how the hijackers were identified, he responded that their identities had been proven by DNA. When asked where the DNA came from to compare samples with he was speechless. The article was obviously commissioned and was full of already debunked material.

  Please lose the tone and the attitude and take a serious look at the evidence that proves conclusively that the preposterous official conspiracy theory is impossible and that all of the conspiracy buffs that buy the official story are both wrong (and lazy).

To Cyrena:
“I included in the SAME response, MULTIPLE COMMENTSfrom you. I’m very sorry that you couldn’t figure this out. I didn’t note each and every comment (number) from you, because it included several. So, don’t get your panties in a wad over it.”

Aw…I thought you don’t lose your temper? It’s not that hard to say ‘To: name’ whenever you have to respond to more than one person, and it certainly isn’t that hard to separate them. Guess common courtesy is something to get angry about.

“Most of the posters here seem perfectly aware…If you ever get to attend college, (though it doesn’t sound like you’re actually ‘college material’) this commission report will be assigned reading.”

Haha…insulting me again? I’m stopping you right now, because I graduated early from high school and I’m sitting in a dorm room. Granted, it’s for culinary school, but I bet that you put psychology classes above learning a trade. I could have gone to Johns Hopkins if I wanted to…but I didn’t want to.

“In the meantime, the thing I asked you to come up with, were photos of what should have been an airplane at the Pentagon, after the alleged Boeing 757 allegedly crashed into it. I thought you might (since you’ve gone so carefully through everything) have come up with that. You did not, and the reason you did not, is because that 757 did not strike the Pentagon.”

http://membres.lycos.fr/applemacintosh/Pentagon/outsidedebris.jpg

If you wanna bitch and moan, please make sure that you don’t gloat before I start showing you stuff. You sound like a pompous asshole when you do that. I know right now that it’s not good enough for you. I’ll look for more when you start bitching about that not being from a Boeing (or something as ridiculous as saying that they strapped those to a missile).

“I’ve examined any and every ‘photo’ that might be available.”

Bullshit. Unless you purchased the schematics for a Boeing and then proceeded to hunt for EVERY photo, which means purchasing magazines, books, movies, as well as searching ALL of the internet, as well as asking everyone who was near the incident if they took any pictures, you have not seen every photo.

“Keep looking, or stick the fork in your ear. Either way, your results are going to be the same.”

Your probably wondering why I stopped quoting and replying. I already have. You’re positive that you’re right, and you’re positive that I’m stupid. Those several paragraphs basically hopped around saying ‘oh yeah, I’m right, you’re not, planes hit WTC, but no plane hit Pentagon, don’t ask me where those people went, but I’m right, you’re not, blah blah blah I’m a genius, you’re an idiot’.

Essentially.

Reply to#110063 by Akira_Maritias

Akira, please note the top line with your name in it. That is the format (or one very similar) that the majority of posters use, when they are replying or commenting on other comments. (as opposed to just commenting on the article in general).

I used this in my reply to niloroth, and you. For niloroth, I used his one comment and included that number. I included in the SAME response, MULTIPLE COMMENTSfrom you. I’m very sorry that you couldn’t figure this out. I didn’t note each and every comment (number) from you, because it included several. So, don’t get your panties in a wad over it.

Most of the posters here seem perfectly aware, by now, that the “official conspiracy’ (the 9-11 commission report that you haven’t read) was a cover-up for what actually occurred on 9-11. You don’t know that, because you haven’t read it. If you ever get to attend college, (though it doesn’t sound like you’re actually ‘college material’) this commission report will be assigned reading. (probably for a history course, though it could fall under other areas as well).

In the meantime, the thing I asked you to come up with, were photos of what should have been an airplane at the Pentagon, after the alleged Boeing 757 allegedly crashed into it. I thought you might (since you’ve gone so carefully through everything) have come up with that. You did not, and the reason you did not, is because that 757 did not strike the Pentagon.

Now Paolo may have misunderstood me as well. I did NOT say that there were NO AIRPLANES at the WTC. Obviously, there were. Not only that, but there was the very typical RESPONSE from the local emergency crew there in Manhattan. So, we know that those two airplanes struck those towers. We also know that those Towers were destroyed by demolition, and so the aircraft involved at that site were destroyed in the same manner. There is no ‘evidence’ to be gleaned from those aircraft, because all of the debris (all mixed together from the demolition) was immediately hauled off.

What I asked you to find was something that would indicate that an aircraft had actually struck the Pentagon, and I knew that you couldn’t do it, because THAT MUCH I’ve attempted to do myself. I’ve examined any and every ‘photo’ that might be available. There are NO SIGNS that a passenger aircraft was ever in the area.

Should I explain this for the 6th time? I can’t. There’s no need for you to do all of the work for me, because I’ve already done it. But, I wanted you to get the hint, that none of what you’re coming up with addresses the issue, which is that there is no sign of a standard emergency response to the incident at the Pentagon, and since you’re still so very young, you may never have seen what a normal response to an air disaster looks like. But, there’s no excuse, because all you have to do is check for the past say 20 or 30 years worth of ‘air disasters/plane crashes, and you will see what normally happens, and how emergency crews (and news crews) respond. Not only that, there will ALWAYS be ‘debris” left over from any airplane crash. It’s really not complicated.

This was somehow all very mysteriously missing from the incident at the Pentagon. There was ZERO debris, and next to ZERO response. I’ve found photo’s of a Pentagon with a hole in it, and there are photos showing one fire truck pumping water. I also saw a photo that included TWO ‘emergency” workers. Yes, TWO.

Where were the other dozens and dozens of emergency rescue vehicles? Where were the ambulances that are always present at such disasters? Where was the debris left from the aircraft? The baggage, the other cargo/freight, maybe a crumpled up wing, or trashed out food cart, or even the remains of an airplane engine?

Keep looking, or stick the fork in your ear. Either way, your results are going to be the same.

The “official” story of 9/11 is an absolute lie.

Period.

All you have to do is believe your own eyes and not what “your parents” are telling you to believe.

The simple fact that the bush crime family, clintons, etc won’t release ALL the 9/11 information, Pentagon
security camera videos, etc proves that they have everything to hide.

The truth is their biggest enemy, and they know it.

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition (LC Final Cut on DVD Nov 11), 9/11 Mysteries, Terror Storm, America: Freedom to Fascism

Here’s an interesting reply to my earlier post about lack of investigation into the causes of the WTC 1 and 2 collapses:

“You just stated both the aim and the results of the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC 1 and 2.  No, really, they checked all the things you mentioned, and then released a report so that engineers could read it and learn from it.  You are very disconnected from reality aren’t you?”

The NIST report has about as much credibility as Colin Powell’s absolutely certain and factual presentation to the UN about Saddam Hussein’s enormous WMD capabilities. Basically, NIST was a $20 million coverup that is remarkable for it it didn’t address: pulverization of virtually all concrete in the towers, heavy steel beams being sheared off and expelled hundreds of feet out from the towers, and photos that clearly show columns cut off at a 45 degree angle, with cooled slag along the cutting point.

Now, who’s being “disconnected from reality?”

Having said all this, I have an open mind. It may be that these huge skyscrapers, with gigantic structural steel core columns, managed to collapse in such a way that those columns went all the way down to the ground, melted, and formed pools of molten metal that lasted for weeks. It may be that these buildings, rather than toppling (as one would expect from such an asymmetrical event as an airliner impact) did indeed fall straight down at near free-fall speed because of some mysterious factors we don’t yet understand.

But, we’ll never know now, because the crime scene was sealed off and all the evidence carted away.

Believing the official government line uncritically is what takes real gullibility. Questioning the causes of such unprecedented events as the collapses of 1 and 2 (not to mention the even more remarkable collapse of building 7)is not an act of gullibility.

Of course, there are some very loony theories floating around that DO require gullibility: the “no airplane” theories, for example. But I dismiss those out of hand.

Check out http://www.911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html
for more details on the NIST report.

And again, Clinton’s “outrage” is very revealing. “How dare you?” is not the response of someone wanting to explain someone else’s error: it is an attempt to shut down legitimate discussion.

Oh, by the by Cyrena…

...Don’t be an asshole.

“But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise…”

That right there? Asshole statement. Wanna know why?

I said 400 something errors in LOOSE CHANGE. You haven’t watched Loose Change.

Acting like I couldn’t find any errors in something that you yourself have not watched is…well, it’s an asshole thing to do. Douchebags assume things like that.

In fact, I asked you specifically what problem you wanted me to find, but you never did get around to telling me what it was, and now you’re gloating about that? I’m sorry, Cyrena, but I’m not a mind reader. I don’t have psychic abilities to tell what the hell it is you want me to find.

Furthermore, you seem to act like everyone else is a ‘clone’ of me by saying ‘multiples’ and Akira. While I’m flattered that you seem to think that I have the ability to come up with so many different things at once, it annoys me to no end. Address everyone individually.

Now, you can continue to be an asshole to me (and everyone else, for that matter), or you can talk to me like a civilized human being. Which one?

And no, I did not read everything that you said in that 4 part message. Wanna know why? You were an asshole and grouped us all together. Separate please! I searched for my name, I took the corresponding paragraphs, and I replied. If you sifted a question in there somewhere that was meant for me, I probably missed it because it was in the middle of a Nilo or Paolo response.

I’m not doing all of the work for you. Separate them at the very least, because I have things to do.

To Cyrena: (And you had damn well better read all of this second part, because if you don’t comprehend what I’m saying here I -might- have to shove a fork into my ear to distract myself from the pain)

“And, while I’ve asked Akira to produce some of this ‘evidence’ for me, figuring that his careful research-”

Her careful research.

“-of those 400 errors would certainly have allowed for him to do that-”

Her to do that. And I said 400 something errors. I’m not exactly tallying them up. That’s why I gave you that website; it’s got a ton of errors in that loose change video posted. But you, apparently refused to read it. Gah. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite!

“, (if in fact there was such a thing) But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise that he hasn’t-”

She hasn’t…aw hell, I give up. I’ll be a dude.

“been able to produce it either. The best thing he can come up with is that his dad saw the ‘hole’ in the Pentagon, and that his dad also flies airplanes. Gee. How many people know how to fly airplanes, (and to it for a living) and how many people saw that ‘hole’? It’s what we DIDN’T see that seems to be the problem, and that would be the AIRPLANE that allegedly CREATED the hole. Nope, nobody has seen that.”

‘Cause it ain’t there. But if nobody has seen it, then why the hell are you acting like you have? Calling my dad a liar again? Shame, shame, shame you hypocrite!

Since you have chosen to be a jerk to me, as I figured you would be, I guess that I’ll grab one of the errors from that site. Too lazy to read it? Dismiss it and act like you’re superior to me!

The statement on Loose Change -

“September, 2000. The Project for a New American Century, a neo-conservative think-tank whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz, releases their report entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defences.” In it, they declare that ” the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. “

The error (judgment error)-

“I have yet to come across a 9/11 conspiracy theorist who DID NOT use this quote as “evidence” that the terrorist attacks were an “inside job” by the neo-cons in the U.S. government. However, the PNAC quote is about the typically slow growth of military technology, abetted by budget cuts in defense R&D;. It is in no way a plan or suggestion for a “new Pearl Harbor.” Is it plausible that these “conspirators” would publicly announce a plan to kill thousands of Americans?”

Cyrena…parts of what you say anger me, but not because you believe them to be truth. You make assumptions about me. A lot of assumptions. You then parade them as great reasons to -not- listen to me, and attempt to make me look stupid. Since toadies would never once question you, I suppose I need to protect myself. It doesn’t take much reading on this site to figure out a few things about me that clash with what you say; in fact, the first thing that I address tells me that you weren’t paying too much attention to what I said when we first started bickering.

“Just like I won’t look at it even after Akira has gone through the trouble to list it again. He’s 17, and I’m 54.”

She. I am woman. Rawr. Age shouldn’t have a thing to do with whether or not you would look into something to be courteous to the person you are discussing with, but apparently, it does. In fact, it’s apparently the -reason- why you shouldn’t look at it. Keep in mind that if -I- chose to not read the sites that you posted, you’d start saying that I was hiding from the truth and being stupid. So, ultimately you’re being a hypocrite, and I don’t like that. 54 year olds have such enrapturing lives that they can’t watch an hour and a half movie? Damn.

“There are several posts here that it would be to your and Akira’s advantage to check out. No one will lose any sleep if you don’t, or choose to waste your time chasing your tails. But, the point is that there are serious people giving serious thought to these things.”

I like the gems; the ones that call me stupid, a truth denier, a moron, lazy, cowardly, pathetic, etc. I -really- like those ones. Considering that there’s only a handful of posts on this article, and I -have- read all of the ones here, you must mean that I need to go to other articles. But wait! You’re -very- first post in this article announced that I was afraid of the truth because I kept posting in 9/11 related articles. Since I’ve done this twice, I shudder to think what you will say if I move on to other articles. Considering the ‘style’ that your ‘people’ write in, I don’t much want to read it either. It’s probably a few coherent thoughts slapped around with a bunch of insults that act as though those that don’t think their government did it are dumber than dumb.

Continued…

Part 1 of 4 reply to#109907 by niloroth - Multiples by Akira

•  cyrena: I could write some fiction like that article you posted in about 30 minutes, and get it posted on the net.  Would you then believe it with no questions?
Nope, I sure wouldn’t believe it with no questions. But, that’s because I don’t believe much of ANYTHING – with NO QUESTIONS. And, if I know that it’s ‘fiction’ why would I? The article that I posted however, was not one that I happened to find or ‘research’ myself, since I don’t spend a lot of time actively searching for articles on the events of 9/11 any longer. Because…it’s been over 6 years since that event, and it’s been nearly 4 years since the “Official Conspiracy/Lie” was documented into a Report (at taxpayers expense) and I’ve read it, a couple of times actually.

Since I witnessed the events (as did nearly all Americans with access to a TV at the time, or since - those images have been replayed over and over again) I used my common sense and my experience as a professional in the aviation industry, to come to some obvious conclusions.

Basics like the Towers at the WTC were exploded/imploded by a controlled/planned demolition. IOW, neither the airplanes nor the jet fuel in those airplanes caused those towers to fall in the less than 10 seconds that they did. This is a no brainer. The same basics apply to the contrived incident at the Pentagon. NO 757 ever hit the Pentagon. There would be evidence of such, if that indeed happened. There is no evidence. The same thing applies to UA Flt. 93, which the official conspiracy claims to have crashed in a field in PA. That didn’t happen either; nor did any ‘Arab Terrorists” highjack those 4 commercial jetliners, with box cutters. Nor did they navigate those airplanes into those towers. That is an impossibility. It didn’t happen – at least not that way.

So, based on that very basic knowledge, anything that has come since, has been a collection of information here and there, some of which MAY have relevance to the larger question that all Americans want to know…the who/how/when/why the operation was carried out.

Consequently, any discussion from architects, engineers, or ‘popular mechanics’ is really secondary to the discussion. Not worthless, because anyone who’s taken the time to listen to the engineers and architects will learn that they too, have disputed the “official conspiracy.” The bottom line is that the towers were blown up; anyone with knowledge and experience in demolitions would ALSO contribute helpful information to the discussion. But an issue of “Popular Mechanics” doesn’t do it. 
Eyewitness testimony is also helpful, but the official conspiracy report ignores it. So, that would be another area where the 911 truth movement has been helpful. They’ve been able to bring to light important evidence that the Commission ignored. The sites like ‘loose change’ have probably provided some helpful information as well, but there’s really nothing NEW there, for me to see. So, I don’t look. Just like I won’t look at it even after Akira has gone through the trouble to list it again. He’s 17, and I’m 54.

The link that I recently posted is NEW information. I didn’t search for it myself, but it was posted on another thread where serious people (serious about trying to figure out the how/who/when/why) share new information, as it comes to light. And, it continues to do that, from the most likely AND un-likely of sources. Such as, a slip of the tongue from Rummy recently, confirming that it was a MISSILE that hit the Pentagon. Of course that’s what had been ‘suspected’ by many, but his ‘slip of the tongue’ was an important confirmation.
So, the recent article that confirms (along with some other things) that Dick Cheney was well informed in advance, and totally involved in carrying out the operation, does the same thing. It CONFIRMS what we’ve known or suspected from OTHER sources of information, which have surfaced in the past 6 years.

TBC

Part 2 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples by Akira

So yes, I DO know how to sort through what is relevant, and what is not, and that means that I wouldn’t pay any attention to any ‘fiction’ that you could come up with in 30 minutes. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t entertain yourself that way, but I can think of more useful ways to spend your time.
There are several posts here that it would be to your and Akira’s advantage to check out. No one will lose any sleep if you don’t, or choose to waste your time chasing your tails. But, the point is that there are serious people giving serious thought to these things. For instance here’s something from Paolo that I can testify to –with knowledge and experience, as being an important thing to ‘note’.

#109903 by Paolo
•  Doesn’t the FAA (properly) spend months after an airliner crash, painstakingly combing through the wreckage to determine exactly what went wrong? Even if investigators think they know what caused the crash? After all, there may have been some malfunction that was not detected.
But there was virtually no investigation at all. The remains of the twin towers (hereinafter renamed “Barad-Dur and Isengard”)were shipped off to China for recycling as quickly as possible.
Actually, it’s the National Transportation Safety Board that routinely investigates ALL aircraft “incidents” as they are known in the industry, but of course that includes the FAA, as well as other professionals from the industry. (the A/C manufactures, etc) And, this would be THE FIRST TIME in the HISTORY of US Aviation, when that was NOT done. It is also the FIRST TIME in US Aviation history, in which airplanes crashed without leaving ANY debris. NONE. We know that two of those airplanes (the ones at the WTC) would not have left the typical debris that is always found at such an incident site, because….THEY WERE BLOWN UP along with the towers, in a controlled demolition. But, amazingly, there was NO debris (at least not that we or the NTSB ever saw) from the other alleged crash sites either.

And, while I’ve asked Akira to produce some of this ‘evidence’ for me, figuring that his careful research of those 400 errors would certainly have allowed for him to do that, (if in fact there was such a thing) But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise that he hasn’t been able to produce it either. The best thing he can come up with is that his dad saw the ‘hole’ in the Pentagon, and that his dad also flies airplanes. Gee. How many people know how to fly airplanes, (and to it for a living) and how many people saw that ‘hole’? It’s what we DIDN’T see that seems to be the problem, and that would be the AIRPLANE that allegedly CREATED the hole. Nope, nobody has seen that.

Directingenergy has also made a really good point, and I would have to agree. I don’t know how ‘helpful’ it is for those who choose to bring attention to the matter by interrupting people like Bill Maher, or even Bill Clinton, other than the fact that as non credo noted and others have noted here, the ‘denial’ from Clinton is very revealing. All he can say is, HOW DARE WE. Well, we DARE, because we have questions; because we know that what we’ve been told is a pack of lies. And, we KNOW that Bill Clinton is not a stupid man. He’s actually very intelligent. So, while this event did NOT occur on ‘his watch’ so to speak, there’s no doubt in my mind that he would have given this some attention himself, and come to many of the same conclusions. So, he knows very well, (whether he’s been privy to all of the details or not) that this was an inside operation.

TBC

Part 3 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples’ by Akira

Still, as I said in my agreement with the comments from directingenery, it may be counterproductive for the 911 truth movement to carry out disruptive antics such as this, if only because it allows for the deniers to have yet more reason to dismiss the truth. It’s easy enough to just label us all as ‘crazy’, and therefore keep the truth hidden for even longer. BUT, I would caution (and STRONGLY caution) anyone from connecting the activities of these isolated groups with those genuine activities of those who have chosen to protest the war, as well as the change in our entire way of living, and the destruction of our democracy, as in the destruction of our Constitution, and the Republic in which we all live and have believed in, for these past 250 years.

There is NO denying that WE – OUR NATION, has been high-jacked, and that began AT LEAST as earlier as December, 2000 with the Judicial Coup that gave the White House and the leadership to an unelected bunch of Thugs. The events of 9/11 have clearly been an important part of the ongoing fascist takeover, but we need to be sure that we are separating those who would only focus on 9/11 itself, (which is certainly enough to focus on) and the larger picture of how it fits into the entire takeover of our country. IOW, the connection between the 9/11 truth seekers is an important connection to all of the rest, because we know that 9/11 was engineered in order to bring about what has come since. The Shock Doctrine, as Naomi Klein has so well put forth in her most recent work. A Coup will always be among the many catastrophes’ that will bring those phenomena to the fore.

So, when we see those who would concentrate their activist awareness on the illegality of the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, let us not confuse them with those who have chosen to display their frustration about 9/11 and the fact that we’ve been so blatantly lied to, with what are admittedly pretty desperate actions. (i.e. the disruption of the Bill Clinton speech). I understand perfectly why they would do that, because it’s human nature to be very frustrated, these 6 years after the fact, that this administration has continued to lie to us, assuming that we’re all stupid, and/or stepfordized into accepting whatever they would shove down our throats. We WON’T.

But, we also know that any real investigation of the events of 9/11 will have to come from amongst ourselves, by sharing knowledge and expertise. We will never get the real story from anyone associated with the political Cabal in power, and the interruptions or other antics like we see here, aren’t likely to help.

The interruptions or antics that we see in Congress, or those recently directed at Condi Rice, are not the same, and so they should not be viewed as such. (at least that’s my own opinion.) Those actions have come about because nothing else has worked, and because this administration continues to wreck havoc and destruction, world wide. None of the standard procedures previously available in a real democracy have been ineffective. Rather, more and more of our rights have been destroyed. So, if there are a handful of people willing to take on the evildoers in whatever manner MAY work, they should be appreciated, not ridiculed or vilified, just for having some guts and a conscience, or for being GENUINE patriots.
TBC

Part 4 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples’ by Akira

Meantime, I’ve decided to post this link –yet again- just because of the ‘reaction’ of the ‘deniers’. That too, reaffirms my sense of its ‘validity’. To attack it as being from an ‘anonymous’ source is laughable, considering that we’ve had 7 years of information from the Thugs on the Hill, (and in the bunkers) and it’s ALWAYS from ‘anonymous’ sources. It’s a template now, in ANY mainstream journalism or news that comes from the thugs. It’s like a built-in disclaimer for them, on any issue from A to Z and beyond. Nobody wants to put their names to anything; either because they’re lying, (which is most of them) or because they’re telling the truth, (far fewer of them) which could put them in genuine danger, from the very same Cabal.

So, it stands to reason that there would be no ‘named’ source for this info. To expect that is totally stupid, and assures me that you just really ‘don’t get it”. The article is clearly convincing enough to me, or to anyone else that has kept up with all of the other information that has come to light over the past 6 years. And yes, you really SHOULD read the Official Conspiracy Report, if only so you know what you’re attempting to defend. Otherwise, it’s kind of impossible for anyone to take you seriously.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2774.htm

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm

Andrew Greeley:
Those Who Love America
Feeling Brokenhearted

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102507E.shtml

The End.

Bill Clinton implies that it is innappropriate to question or investigate, or even consider, that there might be more to the 9/11 attacks.

It seems a safe bet that Hillary is also in bed with special interest groups who do not want the 9/11 attacks investigated further.

However, many Americans and people around the world do have questions and suspicions, as noted in the article below about a scientifically conducted poll of Americans ...

“Poll results on 9/11 attacks show many Americans have suspicions” 

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12137

The 10 Steps to Fascism

bush has done them all

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Heavyrunner:

“I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.  If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.”

Wow.  It really doesn’t take much for something to go from joke to reality with you does it?

Anyway, since you brought up the other thread, any response to my proving that Jowenko clearly says that WTC 1 and 2 were not Controlled Demolition, like you trying to make it seem?  Or the fact that i linked you to a picture that showed exactly what you said didn’t happen when the towers collapsed?  Or a response to my refutation that the buildings fell at free fall speed?  No, typical truther style. 

Step 1: make assertions (usually gained from haveing watched loose change, and done no other research)
Step 2: ignore anyone who counters your assertion by using things like logic, proof, or fats.
Step 3: Make another assertion, and pretend your first assertion never happened.

and you have added a new one

Step 4: believe a joke about a skeptic working for the NWO, and then preach it as gospel.

“I would just like to point out that nilroth and Akira_Maritias are posting the same rubbish on any thread that deals with getting to the bottom of what happened on 9/11/2001. “

Hey now! I’ve only been on two of these things, and the first one was because I thought the video clip would be funny! Honestly, I’m more of a faithie hunter than anything else…don’t act like I waste my time here. And I -never- post the same rubbish. I post -different- rubbish, and that’s an entirely different thing.

“I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.”

No you didn’t. Because if you did, you would have noticed some of the things that I said that got neatly ignored. But, I will say that you got close; at 16 I was being $12 an hour to work in a cubicle. I’m 17 and jobless right now, though. Sorry. I guess that the government is hiring teens now, too? Oh wait, I made a funny: teens aren’t smart enough to be included in this discussion!
 
“If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.”

Oh yeah…‘cause we have those damnable -lives- to live. Forgot about that, huh? I live in the East coast, sucka’. I get up at 6:00 AM, I do some stuff, I check truthdig, I do some more stuff, then I check truthdig 6 hours later, then I do some more stuff, then I go to sleep, then I occasionally wake up in the middle of the night and check truthdig, just ‘cause I’m restless like that.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a fish bowl to clean, and that captures my attention more than you.

I would just like to point out that nilroth and Akira_Maritias are posting the same rubbish on any thread that deals with getting to the bottom of what happened on 9/11/2001. 

They should instead spend some time learning about fire and gravity and what those energy sources can and cannot do.  They cannot, for example, cause skyscrapers to be blown to smithereens, which is what the video of 9/11/2001 clearly shows happened to the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center.

I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.  If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.

Paolo:

“When you speak the truth:

First, they ignore you.
Next, they laugh at you.
Then, they are outraged at you.
Then, they attack you.
Then, you win. “

First you have to speak the truth there big guy.  Something the ironically named truth movement has been fully unable to do. 

“You would think that, given the fact both buildings fell straight down after an airliner impact—an event both buildings were carefully engineered to be able to withstand—there would be months of forensic investigation to see exactly how the towers fell. What design flaw could have led to such a catastrophic failure? Were some aspects of the building not built to specifications? What aspects of engineering and design were insufficient to prevent the collapse—and how could engineers design buildings in the future to prevent such an event from happening?”

You just stated both the aim and the results of the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC 1 and 2.  No, really, they checked all the things you mentioned, and then released a report so that engineers could read it and learn from it.  You are very disconnected from reality aren’t you?

You mention Steven Jones, would that be the same steven jones who went to burning man with a huge steal sigh that we was going to cut with thermite to prove that it could be done?  And then had to just burn the thermite in front of it because of 1) the failure to figure out how to construct the cutter charges he claims brought down the towers.  2) They couldn’t figure out how to get the thermite on the steal.  3) they claimed it was to windy for it to work.  So in otherwords, he claims that imaginary weapons were used in a way he can’t explain, to bring the towers down?  And he couldn’t get a demonstration to work in high wind, but he expects people to believe that it was possible in an occupied high rise, that was to be hit by a plane, set on fire, and subjected to the winds 80 stories up on a high rise that had windows blown out from the plane impact?  Who is taking this man seriously?  Oh yeah, thats right, you are.

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

cyrena:

I could write some fiction like that article you posted in about 30 minutes, and get it posted on the net.  Would you then believe it with no questions? 

Just a few things. First the rather obvious fact that it is from an anonymous source, about an anonymous person, and at an unnamed news organization makes me wonder right off the bat.  In reading it a few things stand out to me that make me think this is nothing more than the typical infowars/prision planet conspiracy right wing disinformation.  Among them:

“Because of very lax, almost incompetent, enforcement of American immigration laws, many Muslim terrorists go to America to conduct their plotting, secure in the knowledge that unless they commit a crime, no one in authority will bother with them.”  Which is a good dig at both the illegal immigration issue and also a good shot at the Muslim terrorists fears.

“The Americans are not anywhere as competent in dealing with terrorists as we are. We have been intimately involved with them since before 1948”  If this was written by an Israeli, for one of their agents, why make mention of the history of Israel?  That really doesn’t help anyone but someone not as knowledgeable about the history of Israel, who according to the notes of the document, should never be seeing it.  However, it would help set the stage for people less knowledgeable who might be reading this on a random website.

“Because the FBI is often not particularly responsive or cooperative, we, in turn, only inform them of matters of common interest when absolutely necessary.” Again, a double dig, at once citing the ineptness of the FBI, as well as setting up the idea that the Israelis are holding things back from us.

“It would also permit, and most important, that the U.S. could attack Saddam Hussein. He was then one of our top enemies and had, in fact, bombarded us with missiles during the Gulf War.”  Again, this would be redundant information for the people who would be reading this, so strikes me as out of place.

Seriously, just admit you will never be convinced it was not an inside job, but also that you have ZERO evidence to support that, and you will not do ANY fact checking at all. 

You are like the Young Earth Creationists and the Holocaust Deniers.

911truthdotorg:

So now we are on endgame?  Let me get this right, first it was loose change, then that was shown to be so full of lies that they put out the second edition, which i think was found to have over 150 errors?  So now they are putting out version 3?  Good track record there.  And Alex Jones puts out 9-11 road to tyranny, same deal, lies and half truths, then he tries with terror storm, and taking a page from the loose change playbook has to do a second cut because the first was so weak.  And now we are on to Endgame? 

These people can’t eve lie well.  Why do you buy into this?

When you speak the truth:

First, they ignore you.
Next, they laugh at you.
Then, they are outraged at you. (That’s where we are now with Clinton, Bush, and the rest of the establishment regarding 9/11 theories.)
Then, they attack you.
Then, you win.

I am convinced there is a lot of very fishy stuff about 9/11. You would think that, given the fact both buildings fell straight down after an airliner impact—an event both buildings were carefully engineered to be able to withstand—there would be months of forensic investigation to see exactly how the towers fell. What design flaw could have led to such a catastrophic failure? Were some aspects of the building not built to specifications? What aspects of engineering and design were insufficient to prevent the collapse—and how could engineers design buildings in the future to prevent such an event from happening?

Sorry Bill Clinton—but you can’t cheat an honest man. And an honest man has to ask those questions. In other words, even if I stipulate the buildings collapsed solely because of the airliner impact and subsequent fires (and that’s a HUGE stipulation), then you’re still left with the honest question: why would you not want to investigate the crime scene?

Doesn’t the FAA (properly) spend months after an airliner crash, painstakingly combing through the wreckage to determine exactly what went wrong? Even if investigators think they know what caused the crash? After all, there may have been some malfunction that was not detected.

But there was virtually no investigation at all. The remains of the twin towers (hereinafter renamed “Barad-Dur and Isengard”)were shipped off to China for recycling as quickly as possible.

I know many of the conspiracy theories are loony, but many others are quite credible (see Professor Steven Jones’ research if you doubt this).

Bill Clinton’s feigned outrage is very revealing.

“All I needed to do was to read the Official/Authorized 911 Commission report, to know that it was an inside job. So, how did you figure out there were more than 400 errors in the ‘loose change video’?”

Watched it. Researched it. Researched it as soon as I heard him say something. Every name that he used, I searched for their credibility. Of course, I never did read the 9/11 commission report, so I guess I don’t have all of the info. Then again, considering the countless number of people who read it without changing their opinion, as well as the fact that the government that you seem to think did this was dumb enough to release that to the public when it apparently -clearly- proved that they did it….well, you ain’t proving much to me. Just hurling insults while the posse is away.

“Have you ever read the official report? How do you know these are errors? Humm, I noticed you didn’t point any of these out. Just enough to say that there are more than 400 errors in it.  So, what are they? Save me from having to go through it myself.”

Yeah. Let me sit here and list the 400 something errors off the top of my head.

....Here.

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Took me a few seconds of searching. Someone’s been courteous enough to go through the ENTIRE movie and find errors. If you’re too damn lazy to read it (you have hours to waste here throwing insults at random people but can’t manage to read something that might disagree with your thought process?)

Of course, if you whine some more, I’ll just have to search through it to find an error that might be glaring enough for YOU to notice.

“Anyway, I’ll agree that it’s pretty sad for those of you who are so desperate to avoid reality. Don’t you believe in the adage about “the truth will set you free”? What don’t you want the rest of us to figure out? I’d say it’s kind of late for that, though it’s sort of fun to watch you guys become more and more frantic. Never has there been a time when so many folks are so terrorized by the truth. What a sad and pathetic existence for you.”

Yeah, I’m the frantic one. Sad and pathetic existence? Wow. I love it when people assume things about my life. I again wonder why you seemed to fall silent on that other board, where I made civilized assertions about why it is that every ‘fact’ gifted to me by some of you guys is laced with so many insults that I ponder if you even care that there’s a human writing this stuff to you. If you honestly feel that what you say is the truth, you wouldn’t be wasting time trying to make more enemies, especially when you’re trying to spread a secret that the government was willing to kill thousands of innocent people for.

“I’ll say some prayers.”

I’m atheist, spare your breath. God won’t listen. He’s too busy with Bush and Dick to care.

I hate it when I’m right.

Cyrena,

“Akira, which is it? Can’t you make up your mind? Either you love it, or it scares you shitless? Which is it? You don’t really seem to be scared shitless, since you’ve still got plenty of shit to paste all over these boards.”

No, I think you know that I’m scared shitless. Although, I think it silly for you to assume that you know what I mean when I say that, as I also think it silly that you seem to know what I feel.

I love it, but it scares me shitless. The utter hypocrisy of what you do and say is…remarkable to me. However, it’s the fact that -anyone- can sit there and say what you say that frightens me. It means that your brain rationalized what you say, and you have people who agree with you. You think that’s enough to prove you right, to boot. Islam, Judaism, Christianity…well, golly, they all have the -exact- same idea about their (not so) respectable religions. Hence why it frightens me, and makes me love it all at once.

“But then again, all of these ‘sheeple’ running around exposing the truth might indeed just be giving you a case of diarrhea of the mouth, and constipation of the brain.”

My…away from your truthie friends you get stunningly foul and violent, as if you intend to instigate a fight. Where were you when I posted some sensible things to Sheila? Oh, that’s right, you were too busy telling her not to listen. You aren’t exposing truth; you’re running from one 9/11 related article to another, arguing with the same handful of people. Considering the way that you act when you do this, do you honestly expect -anyone- to believe you who does not already think that there is a conspiracy?

“So, at some point, the imbalance may indeed scare you shitless. We’ll hope sooner than later.”

I already said that I’m scared shitless. And I’m glad that you’ve revealed your intentional desire to see me cowering in a corner in utter fear. Truly. It’s…so nice of you.

“Oh, by-the-way….I’ve NEVER even looked at the ‘loose change video’ and don’t have a clue to what’s in it.”

So ‘smart’...yet you feel the need to be so dumb…Cyrena, when in that tiny little quip did I -ever- say your name? I never once meant to address any one of you; in fact, that last part about you guys almost didn’t get added. Do I need to put up warnings saying ‘this isn’t for you, Cyrena!’ next time so you don’t have a panic attack?

Continued…

#109837 by Akira_Maritias

•  I love it…sheeple running around trying to act like they aren’t sheeple…actually, I don’t love it. It scares me shitless.

Akira, which is it? Can’t you make up your mind? Either you love it, or it scares you shitless? Which is it? You don’t really seem to be scared shitless, since you’ve still got plenty of shit to paste all over these boards.

But then again, all of these ‘sheeple’ running around exposing the truth might indeed just be giving you a case of diarrhea of the mouth, and constipation of the brain.

So, at some point, the imbalance may indeed scare you shitless. We’ll hope sooner than later.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2774.htm

Oh, by-the-way….I’ve NEVER even looked at the ‘loose change video’ and don’t have a clue to what’s in it. All I needed to do was to read the Official/Authorized 911 Commission report, to know that it was an inside job. So, how did you figure out there were more than 400 errors in the ‘loose change video’?

Have you ever read the official report? How do you know these are errors? Humm, I noticed you didn’t point any of these out. Just enough to say that there are more than 400 errors in it.  So, what are they? Save me from having to go through it myself.

Anyway, I’ll agree that it’s pretty sad for those of you who are so desperate to avoid reality. Don’t you believe in the adage about “the truth will set you free”? What don’t you want the rest of us to figure out? I’d say it’s kind of late for that, though it’s sort of fun to watch you guys become more and more frantic. Never has there been a time when so many folks are so terrorized by the truth. What a sad and pathetic existence for you.

I’ll say some prayers.

That’s ok, Bill. We know what happens to those who know too much. We’ve seen all the plane crashes and “suicides”.
BUT, SOONER OR LATER, EVERYONE WILL KNOW EVERYTHING.
True, we’re guessing now, but eventually the truth will out.
The majority of the American people still wonder why the Strategic Air Command happened to stand down that day—why WTC 7 collapsed—and where are the big indestructible jet engines at the pentagon?
Why did Bush refuse Saddam’s offer to bring the US Army into Iraq?
Why did Bush refuse Ahmadinedjad’s offer to stop Uranium enrichment?
Come on, Bill, we dare because we’re Americans raised back when it was a free country, before you had to take off your shoes and show a passport to fly to Des Moines.
We dare to seek the truth and anyone can see someone’s hiding the truth. Come on, Bill. How dare you play us for suckers? There’s a lot of folks out here in the boonies a lot smarter than even your Oxford butt. How dare we, indeed?

Alex Jones’ new video: Endgame

What clinton, bush and the rest of the elites have in store for the rest of us:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261

He’s a bushie just like his horrible wife….what do expect? He knows. They ALL know.

They are absolutely scared shitless that their little 9/11 charade is unraveling faster than they know how to react…so this is their next opposing tactic -

A “Thought Crime” bill

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/261007_ensnare_activists.htm

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition, Terror Storm, America: Freedom to Fascism

Anyone believing Loose Change has a little issue with a ‘loose brain’...you can find over 400 errors in that little piece of crap video, if you’re willing to do your research instead of eating it up like anti-freeze in a petting zoo.

It’s -really- sad when Clinton is saying ‘How dare you!’

Really…really sad.

Now watch all of the truthies from the last A/V booth swarm over here to spew the same message as many times as possible until there’s just endless pages of them…haha…‘high-fiving’ each other.

I love it…sheeple running around trying to act like they aren’t sheeple…actually, I don’t love it. It scares me shitless.

Bill you took the brown bag so much you’ve developed carpal tunnel. Never mind the 11:59pm Marc Rich, Pincus Zuckerman bribe, that’s small change.

No Billy it’s the “Loose Change” you’d rather not confront. You’re a fraud and so is your wife - just ask Al Gore.

so, he neither confirms nor denies, just says, “How dare you?” c’mon, bill, we’re not convinced.