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Bill Clinton Stands Up to 9/11 Conspiracy Buffs

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Posted on Oct 26, 2007
Bill Clinton

Fresh on the heels of last week’s “Real Time” confrontation between Bill Maher and 9/11 conspiracy enthusiasts, former President Bill Clinton found himself in a similar situation, albeit with more effective security. Clinton showed little patience for the protesters: “An inside job? How dare you? How dare you?”

Watch it:

(via politicsTV)

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By Inherit The Wind, November 1, 2007 at 4:03 am Link to this comment

Paracelsus on 10/31 at 9:21 pm
(78 comments total)

So attack the messenger, aye. I did not say anything ant-semitic, and there was nothing anti-semitic in that particular post. There are other sources as well. Please be a gentleman. Do not tar my whole argument from that source. There is a Jewish man, who filmed the collapse, and his research shows that it was a controlled demolition.

I’m talking about your source, not you. I’m saying your SOURCE is anti-semitic AND a paranoid nut-case.  I don’t know how I can POSSIBLY make that clearer.

And Michael Rivero is well-documented as such.

Yes, I THROW OUT “evidence” in totality from such sources. It’s like pawing threw a dumpster looking for edible food to try to find valid information in all the horseshit that characters like Rivero dump onto the ‘net. You are going to get salmonella poisoning before you get a good meal.

The claim of an “ad hominem” attack isn’t valid here.

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By Paracelsus, October 31, 2007 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

So attack the messenger, aye. I did not say anything ant-semitic, and there was nothing anti-semitic in that particular post. There are other sources as well. Please be a gentleman. Do not tar my whole argument from that source. There is a Jewish man, who filmed the collapse, and his research shows that it was a controlled demolition.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 31, 2007 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

Paracelsus on 10/31 at 2:06 pm
(76 comments total)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html

*******************

THAT is your “proof”????? Give me a fucking BREAK!

Michael Rivero (the clown behind that web site) has been “outed” as an anti-semitic lunatic who deliberately fakes evidence to fit his paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

NOBODY with a brain or any intellectual ability takes his bullshit seriously at all.

Naturally, he’s one of Robert-Abu’s favorite sources of the manure he shovels out in such vast quantities.

What Really Happened is that Michael Rivero hates Jew with an insane passion and will use ANY excuse to blame them for any evil in the world.

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By Paracelsus, October 31, 2007 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Shapes of clouds are not quantifiable or reliable, but recoded sounds of demolition charges are. You can set up a sound board, and run the sounds through an oscilloscope, and see the similarities of the wave patterns. Each sample of wave patterns can be averaged and then set within confidence intervals for resembling the mean wave pattern. A standard normal curve can be used to set confidence intervals for the time between explosion sounds as well as the general shape of each sound event. From that it is possible to say for example I am 95% sure that sound pattern is not a random explosion from fire or anything else.
  You cannot do that with images from clouds because the computer marked graphics of the clouds will not produce enough similar events to produce a reliable mean variable for point similarity of the images.

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By Paracelsus, October 31, 2007 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html

Above is the link arguing the 9-11 building collapses were controlled demolitions.

Someone had posted that burning house will have sounds of explosions as its burning. The problem with that idea is the explosive reports of a house have a randomness to them that the 9-11 demolitions do not have.

The 9-11 explosions went off in a synchronized and organized pattern. When events happen in non random manner then it points out there must be an explanatory causation to those events. The 9-11 explosions are too non-random to not have a cause of some sort.

As to Noam Chomsky saying there many phenomena that seem to form patterns with non explanatory variables in them. To me that is sloppy science and Noam Chomsky is not only a failed linguist, but also a careless philosopher if I may be so kind as to call him a philosopher. No experimenter worth his salt would be satisfied with unexplained variations in the results. If we had scientists of his ilk no one would have tried to prove up the special theory of relativity. He would have just said, “Oh well. Can’t explain it. Who’s Einstein anyway.”

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By Inherit The Wind, October 31, 2007 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

Paracelsus on 10/30 at 11:22 pm
(71 comments total)

#110425 by Inherit The Wind

Frankly I have had enough crap from Bill Clinton. How dare him! Now I expect even mountains to collapse when an airplane hits it. I have listened to so many videos of those towers collapsing. It is so obvious, “Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom!” What do I do? Tell my ears that they are shameless and unpatriotic? Those are explosives going off. What else could it be?!?!

Gee….I don’t know—burn a house to the ground and there will be explosions.  Just because YOU don’t know “what else” they could be isn’t proof of anything. As large heavy structures within a building exceed their failure point, they fail with a loud “BOOM!”

It’s not my problem if you observe what you want to observe and see what you want to see.  People see shapes and figures in clouds—doesn’t mean God put those shapes and figures there.

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By voice of truth, October 31, 2007 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

Forgive my earlier post on the Noam Chomsky thread.  This one is, in reality, the funniest thread I have ever read.  Thanks to the moonbats for giving me a little smile today!

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By niloroth, October 31, 2007 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

Paracelsus

please link to any video with the sound of explosives going off while the buildings fall.

Just one please.

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By Inherit The WInd, October 31, 2007 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Paracelsus on 10/30 at 11:41 pm
(71 comments total)

@ #110090 by John Borowski

The Goon Squader, if you did your research, professes that both political parties are controlled by the same elites.

yeah, yeah, yeah…“not a dime’s worth of difference”..yadda, yadda, yadda.

There’s 2 trillion dollars worth of difference (at least) and the loss of 650,000 Iraqi lives, just for starters.

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By Paracelsus, October 31, 2007 at 12:41 am Link to this comment

@ #110090 by John Borowski

The Goon Squader, if you did your research, professes that both political parties are controlled by the same elites. The reason the Dems are hounded so heavily by the truth movement is because they know that all the Repug candidates are a bunch of dead horses, and that this is just an orderly change of power from Bushes to Clintons.

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By Paracelsus, October 31, 2007 at 12:22 am Link to this comment

#110425 by Inherit The Wind

Frankly I have had enough crap from Bill Clinton. How dare him! Now I expect even mountains to collapse when an airplane hits it. I have listened to so many videos of those towers collapsing. It is so obvious, “Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom!” What do I do? Tell my ears that they are shameless and unpatriotic? Those are explosives going off. What else could it be?!?!

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By rschop, October 30, 2007 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The attacks on 9/11 were due to a conspiracy, in fact a criminal conspiracy at the CIA, but not the conspiracy as previously suggested. The 9/11 Commission report says that the CIA knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi for 21 months prior to 9/11 and deliberately did not give this information to the FBI criminal investigation teams. The CIA not only hid this information from the FBI on 10 separate occasions that are now well documented, but hid from the FBI Cole investigators the fact Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 5-8, 2000 with Khallad bin Attash, mastermind of the Cole bombing, planning the Cole bombing, on 5-6 occasions, making this clearly a criminal conspiracy! The 9/11 Commission said they could never understand why the CIA did this or why the CIA never connected these two terrorists to the huge attack the CIA had been warned about from April 2001.

But information located in the government’s own files says the CIA had in fact connected these two terrorists to the warnings of a huge attack inside of the US. In fact email between CIA managers on July 23, 2001, says that the CIA was aware that Mihdhar, and by implication Hazmi, were going to take part in this huge attack.

On August 22, 2001 when the CIA finds out that both of these terrorists are inside of the US, they know these terrorists are in the US for no other reason that to prepare to be part of this attack that will kill thousands of Americans and they still continue to hide this information from the FBI criminal investigators knowing this will make it impossible for the FBI to prevent this attack,  the attacks that took place on 9/11.

All of this information can be found in the governments own documents and is described in a new book “Prior Knowledge of 9/11” at http://www.eventson911.com.

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By rschop, October 30, 2007 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The attacks on 9/11 were a conspiracy, in fact a criminal conspiracy at the CIA, but not the conspiracy as previously suggested. The 9/11 Commission report says that the CIA knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi for 21 months prior to 9/11 and deliberately did not give this information to the FBI criminal investigation teams. The CIA not only hid this information from the FBI on 10 separate occasions that are now well documented, but hid from the FBI Cole investigators the fact Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting on January 5-8, 2000 with Khallad bin Attash, mastermind of the Cole bombing, planning the Cole bombing, on 5-6 occasions, making this clearly a criminal conspiracy! The 9/11 Commission said they could never understand why the CIA did this or why the CIA never connected these two terrorists to the huge attack the CIA had been warned about from April 2001.

But information located in the government’s own files says the CIA had in fact connected these two terrorists to the warnings of a huge attack inside of the US. In fact email between CIA managers on July 23, 2001, says that the CIA was aware that Mihdhar, and by implication Hazmi, were going to take part in this huge attack.

On August 22, 2001 when the CIA finds out that both of these terrorists are inside of the US, they know these terrorists are in the US for no other reason that to prepare to be part of this attack that will kill thousands of Americans and they still continue to hide this information from the FBI criminal investigators knowing this will make it impossible for the FBI to prevent this attack,  the attacks that took place on 9/11.

All of this information can be found in the governments own documents and is described in a new book “Prior Knowledge of 9/11” at http://www.eventson911.com.

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By loveinatub, October 30, 2007 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

I have to agree. Bill sounded awfully sanctimonious with his response of “how dare you.”  Like who says freedom of thought and speech isn’t allowed anymore? The Bush administration has been so hostile and contemptous of free speech and thought in this country it’s no wonder some people still think 911 was an inside job. Even if it’s not true, for Clinton to respond in the manner in which he did, showed great contempt for our democracy.

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By John Borowski, October 30, 2007 at 10:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Boiler room folks I think you should come up for some air because the fumes from the boiler are probably getting to you. If the mythical devil set off a bomb underneath your boiler room and a little while later an airplane crashed into your roof, I think you would know which is which.

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By John Borowski, October 30, 2007 at 4:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sheila, I don’t like to waste my time, but I will answer your interrogative . The “twelve fifties are the god bless patriotic Americans” (Aka Conservative right wingers) that are the folks overflowing with righteousness that work the boiler rooms for twelve dollars and fifty cents. They are interim people on duty until the British can control the Internet like they do all other forms of media. I pray that an airplane doesn’t hit the roof of your home, but if it does, you will know it even though you didn’t see the plane hit. There are myriad ways to know the exact time of the plane hit, some of them accurate to the “nano-second.”

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By Inherit The Wind, October 30, 2007 at 3:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Go, Bill Go!

Enough crap from the tin-foil-hat types who will give the Presidency and nation back to fascism in their quest for some kind of “purity”

Nader in 2000 was their perfect rep: “Not a dime’s worth of difference”.  Well, we have seen that there was 2 TRILLION dollars and 650,000 lost lives worth of difference, not to mention the gutting of the Constitution.

THAT is the difference…We are still SO close to the edge and all that’s keeping us back are the jelly-fish Demo-weenies in Congress.  One more push and “The Last Best Hope” will fail.

Meanwhile they fight over the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

So keep on being the Dem with the backbone, Bill.  We need it!

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By Inherit The Wind, October 30, 2007 at 3:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sheila Casey on 10/29 at 7:01 pm
(12 comments total)

re. #110326 by Inherit The Wind on 10/29 at 4:29 pm

“He was INSIDE the building and heard 3 tremendous explosions—how did he know they were just before the plane hit, since he couldn’t SEE the plane hit?”

The exact times of the impacts have been well publicized.  Perhaps he was wearing a watch.

And perhaps he wasn’t.  And perhaps his watch was slow. And perhaps Lee Harvey Oswald had help from extra-terrestrials—and perhaps he didn’t.  You cannot assume facts exist because you want them to exist.

Besides, where is it recorded how long “just before” is?  Was it 10 minutes? 2 minutes? 1 second? 1/10 second?  If the watch he PERHAPS was wearing was a minute slow, he would have thought the explosions he supposedly heard were 1 minute before the plane hit, when it actually was the plane hitting.

It’s garbage science because people would rather believe that the most evil but also the most incompetent president ever managed to pull this off, or they’d rather believe what the Moslem extremists claimed, that “The Jews” did it.

They simply cannot accept the evil simple elegance of these 19 men.  Can’t hijack a plane with a box-cutter? Why not? Up until 9/11, THE RULE was you acquiesce to hi-jackers. They held a box-cutter to a flight attendant’s eye-ball and the captain AS REQUIRED, capitulated because hi-jackers UNTIL THEN wanted to force the plane to go somewhere else.

Hell, they could have broken a glass in 1st Class and used THAT instead of a box-cutter just as effectively.  A Black Belt could have done it without any weapon at all.

Only Tom Clancy had fantasized about using an air liner as an unexpected attack weapon—read “Debt of Honor”.

And the creeps in the White House jumped on it like fleas on a dog.  George W. Bush could have gone down in history as our greatest president since FDR had he taken the simple obvious steps—but he chose to use it as an opportunity to create a fascist state and start a war nobody wanted or needed.  Now he’ll go down as the WORST president ever.

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By Sagesnow, October 30, 2007 at 1:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who’s Bill’s Daddy?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/1781098382_6af8671437_m.jpg
What’s Clinton’s stake in the New World Order?
Why was all the WTC evidence destroyed before a real investigation could take place?  Why are 9/11 skeptics questions ignored?  Why isn’t there a national public forum to answer these architects and engineers questions:http://www.ae911truth.org/?
Why doesn’t Truthdig take the lead and lead open minded investigations into this pivotal disaster in US history?

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By niloroth, October 29, 2007 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

Yay, Sheila Casey has showed up in this thread. 

All you truthers, bow down, for none of you are as truthy as sheila.  For though you believe things, sheila believes them even more than you.  She even believes things that you (or anyone else in the truth movement) don’t even believe.  But don’t question her on her beliefs, because she won’t respond to your inquiries, except to maybe say “i stand by my facts.”

Yes, thats right, you are wrong truthers, and sheila is right.  I will prove it:

1) you believe that Marvin Bush sat on the board of Stratesec, well, sheila will do you one better, she believes he OWNED Stratesec!  Yes, facts be damned, he owned it.

2) you believe that Steven E. Jones retired from BYU, well, she believes that he was FIRED!  Yes, forget the whole paid leave pending hearings held by the university, He was fired. 

3) you have given up on the whole power shutdown prior to the attack story.  Mostly because it couldn’t be supported by more than 1 person?  Well sheila still believes it it 100% accurate.

Yes, thats right folks, give up now, cause not only does she believe the things you truthers believe, but she also believes things that no one else does, things that are made up and have no basis in reality at all.  And in the end, doesn’t that just make her the biggest truther out there?

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By Sheila Casey, October 29, 2007 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

re. #110326 by Inherit The Wind on 10/29 at 4:29 pm

“He was INSIDE the building and heard 3 tremendous explosions—how did he know they were just before the plane hit, since he couldn’t SEE the plane hit?”

The exact times of the impacts have been well publicized.  Perhaps he was wearing a watch.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 29, 2007 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The janitor Rodriquez (Surprisingly, a highly intelligent individual) tells the American people that he heard 3 tremendous explosions just before the robotic jet plane hit Tower 1 just below his basement which is the second of six.

I LOVE this! No conspiracy troll questions ANYTHING, no matter how ridiculous. It reminds me of the story: “He dreamed he was falling and when he hit the ground he had a heart attack and died.”

What’s wrong with this story?

He was INSIDE the building and heard 3 tremendous explosions—how did he know they were just before the plane hit, since he couldn’t SEE the plane hit?

See what I mean about conspiracy trolls? No close reasoning ability.

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By weather, October 29, 2007 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

And its worth asking again and again - why was it w/in just days after 9/11 would Rudy fly to Israel when he had so much on his plate here?

3 weeks into 2002 and Rudy gets Guiliani Partners! Not even Ed Koch could have been so struck rich.

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By niloroth, October 29, 2007 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

here, since so many of you seem to be fully unable to process anything that is not on you tube, spwnd 4 minutes watching this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx9QyLDMPmA

then check out the rest of the videos he has done.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=RKOwens4&p=r

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By Sheila Casey, October 29, 2007 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

re:
#110090 by John Borowski on 10/28 at 9:10 am

what are twelve fifties?

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By d.alon, October 29, 2007 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How anyone can, after all that has happened in the seven years of this administration, still believe that 9/11 was strictly a terrorist attack perpetrated by a handful of Saudis, as the government officials who get caught lying to you every day say it was, is beyond me. Bill, nevertheless, is certainly not the poster-boy for honestly and morality!

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By John Borowski, October 29, 2007 at 11:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The comment is abridged to comply w/# of words. THE CURSED WTC PEOPLES’ BODIES REST IN A GARBAGE DUMP IN STATEN ISLAND,NY. Only the FBI is allowed in the dump. No nosy reporters or Conspiracy Nuts until further notice. Most of the evidence that pointed to the destruction of the WTC by Thermate and not the robotic jet planes is safely in their hands. To bring a building down, you MUST break the back of the building in the basement.The janitor Rodriquez (Surprisingly, a highly intelligent individual) tells the American people that he heard 3 tremendous explosions just before the robotic jet plane hit Tower 1 just below his basement which is the second of six. (Confirmed by the seismic recording in Columbia University of NY) The fingerprints of Thermate are a chevron shape melted cut in the steel beams. The cuts of vaporized steel are clearly visible in the pictures of the destroyed WTC. The freight elevators are the only ones that are exposed to the backbone of the towers and if there is a Thermate explosion and some unlucky worker happens to be in the freight elevator he will experience a bad day. This is exactly what happened. Rodriquez (Unlike our hero with the baseball cap, is a true hero that saved many lives that would have died in the World Trade Center if not for his heroics) relates that an immigrant worker came out of the freight elevator with his skin on his arms and face hanging off him. Silverstein (The buyer of the World Trade Center months before it was brought down) knew that the north tower was badly damaged in 1993 by the truck bomb. Knew that the occupancy was a headache from day 1 of its existence. Knew that he would have to remove the asbestos from the steel beams before 2007. Knew companies that remove asbestos wouldn’t touch this because no insurance company would insure them. Knew that the horrendous cost of maintenance sucked out any profit harvested from the buildings. Knew that the owners of the World Trade Center (The NY and NJ Port Authority were denied the solution to all their problems by bringing down the World Trade Center by using explosives. (Any other way to remove the buildings would not be economically feasible).  Knew that these beautiful buildings were a white elephant that was unprofitable from the very beginning. Knew that if he ran to the insurance companies months before 9/11 to insure the building for 7 billion he would make out like a bandit if anything happened to the buildings. Knew that there was a legitimate fear that an earthquake or a hurricane up from Florida could bring down Tower1. When they bring down an old structure pregnant with asbestos and dust clouds cover the area where people live-what does that tell you? Uncounted victims are dying from the dust clouds caused by this method of destruction at the WTC.

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By Douglas Chalmers, October 29, 2007 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

#110249 by Non Credo on 10/29 at 8:06 am: “...The only reasonable objections to the “inside job” theory are practical - that is, how could they have managed to pull it off, how could they have hoped to cover it up, etc….”

An “inside job” - but with “outside help” - from a small country in the M.East, uhh!

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By niloroth, October 29, 2007 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

Man, you truthers have been busy.

Okay, i am tired of continually rewriting the same damn things in all these threads.  You folks start going off about controlled demolitions, free fall speeds, squibs, etc etc.  But whenever i point out an inaccuracy you all get really quiet on that point and move on to something else.  So here if your chance.  You all say that the truth is out there, that you have done the research, and that you have the evidence.  Okay, show it to me.  I ask you for 3 easy things.

1) Squibs.  Show me the squibs that the truthers believe were used to help bring the towers down.  But, don’t use either http://www.flatplanet.net/truth911/wtc-small.jpg
or http://www.headsup911.com/mind/new_world_order/zzsquibs1qx.jpg
since after all, if the squibs were used to bring the whole towers down, they would have to be more than 2 places right?  I mean, 2 squibs couldn’t do all the damage.  Even better if you can find me video.

2) you truthers claim freefall speed.  Show it to me.  I want to see even one of the towers collapse in 9 to 9.5 seconds.  Come on, you must have seen it, show it to me.

3) Pulverized materials.  Where is your proof that everything was pulverized?  Again, prove it to me.

Okay, get to it, should only take you a few minutes right?  I am eagerly awaiting your replies.

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By Douglas Chalmers, October 29, 2007 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

109954 by Non Credo on 10/27 at 10:20 am: “... But Clinton’s sanctimonious “I dare you” is insulting and misplaced….. This pious “I dare you” implies that we’re all supposed to know of some MORAL limit to the criminality of the Bush administration…...

There is zero evidence for such a limit, and plenty of proof that the Bush-Cheney administration is deeply malignant and malevolent. Furthermore, the pattern so far has been that we continually find new depths to this malignancy: every month, every week, every day, we find out that Bush is worse than we’d dared to think theretofore…... How dare Clinton try to shame those who rightly fear and loathe the evil that is Bush…?”

BILL has just taken a big spade and dug out all of the credibility under HILLARY’s campaign!

The one thing that lawyers, judges and politicians have in common is that they all back each other up in the end. That way, they keep their immunity from prosecution intact.

Can Hillary buck this trend? She will have to now if she wants to win because validating her “new deal” is the only way forward for her. Dissociating herself from her husband, or at least his views, is something she is now stuck with!

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By GB, October 29, 2007 at 7:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Let’s also not forget Democratic Senators Leahy and Daschle who voted against the Iraq war both received what was found to be US Military grade anthrax and still no news on this investigation. If anyone doesn’t think there are those in our government who wouldn’t kill or intimidate to get what they want started are naive. The Project for a New American Century whos signers included Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bolten, and a host of other neocons stated that barring another event like Pearl Harbor they feel it necessary to invade Iraq, Iran, and Syria. Let’s face it. There is definately something fishy going on here.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 29, 2007 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

“Akira, I don’t HAVE a “conspiracy theory”...”

Yeah, you do. Gussy it up however you want to, but you think that someone used the real 9/11 story as a cover up. That’s a conspiracy theory.

So…you want to prove that 9/11 didn’t go down like they said, but you’ll be DAMNED if you’ll show the proof that makes you suspicious. No, you would rather leave that out and hope the stuff that -didn’t- work for you will be enough for me. Thanks.

“So, let’s get that straight kid.”

Don’t call me kid. Just ‘cause I was courteous enough to let you know my age, doesn’t mean that you have superiority over me. I know 9 year olds that can hold a damn good discussion, because they ask hard hitting questions.

“There are multiple conspiracy theories…”

I’m not passionately defending the events of 9/11. I’m saying that I saw it, and my common sense is saying that that’s what happened. The fact that you are calling it the official conspiracy theory only -proves- that you are a pompous asshole. That would be like conspiracy theorists for Area 51 saying that Area 51 was the ‘official conspiracy theory’. You’ve got the opinion that is ridiculous, you are the conspiracy theory. It doesn’t work the other way around. You don’t help your argument at all when you insinuate that I, and everyone that I know, are so stupid as to fall for a conspiracy theory.

“So, keep that in mind, because obviously, if I don’t have a “conspiracy theory” of my own that I’m willing to put forth on the forum, there’s nothing for YOU to judge as reasonable or not.”

Yeah, there is something to judge. You are supporting the conspiracy theorists. I could go anywhere else online concerning this and it would be called a conspiracy theory. Just because you call the sky the ground doesn’t mean that you are right and clear. You’re being an idiot right here; just make some points instead of trying to dodge. I’m saying ‘prove it’, and you’re saying ‘I don’t have to because I’m not the conspiracy theory, so ha!’. This is the -exact- same thing that faithies do when they argue with me: they throw everything at me and say that it is the atheists’ job to prove them wrong, instead of it being the faithies’ job to prove it right.

“And it’s not a personal concern of mine, whether you remaine in the alice-in-wonderland world of fantasy.”

Last time I checked, alice-in-wonderland was fun. This is not a fun fantasy. And again, your assumption is ludicrous; ‘I’m right, you’re wrong, prove me otherwise, moron!’. How is this fair? That’s right, it isn’t. Your acting as though I am inferior and wrong, then yelling at me when I remain inferior and wrong. I tell you right now, you aren’t winning any favor with me on the ‘reasonable’ section of my brain. Since you haven’t done much besides make this personal, I haven’t seen a reason to believe you. I’ve said this a few times already, but you wanna ‘stay the course’, I guess.

“And no, I don’t remember being ‘ousted’ as a ‘troll’ on this site or any other. Are you sure that’s what you meant? Ousted? Maybe you meant something else. You sound confused. (often)”

I’m always confused, but at least I’m not an asshole. You were caught red handed talking behind someone’s back in a trollish manner, however.

Again, I have the guts to admit when I’m wrong, however. You have the guts to spit in my face and laugh hysterically about how right you are. See a difference there?

“I AM a little worried about your classmates though. Talk about creepy. This culinary thing means you have access to knives. Very scary.”

Another personal jab! Honestly, Cyrena, can you go a post without it? Nope, I guess not. After all, heaven forbid you manage to make a point without acting like I’m stupid/incompetent!

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

#110150 by Akira_Maritias

•  “Of course, now that you feel that you can’t persuade me to find you reasonable on your conspiracy theory.”

Akira, I don’t HAVE a “conspiracy theory”. I DO have some pretty confirmed suspicions on how and why the events of 9/11 occurred, but I’ve yet to share that with you, or anyone else on this public forum. So, let’s get that straight kid. There are multiple conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. MY primary focus has been on the “Official Conspiracy Theory”. The one that YOU so passionately defend, beyond all logical reason, even though you’ve admitted to never even reading the “Official” Conspiracy Theory.

So, keep that in mind, because obviously, if I don’t have a “conspiracy theory” of my own that I’m willing to put forth on the forum, there’s nothing for YOU to judge as reasonable or not. And it’s not a personal concern of mine, whether you remaine in the alice-in-wonderland world of fantasy.

So, just so that you’re able to distinguish the difference, (which even you should have been able to figure out, if you’d actually read my posts) the only thing I’m doing is QUESTIONING THE ‘OFFICIAL’ CONSPIRACTY THREORY, (the administration’s explanation of what occurred on 9/11/2001.) And, like so many others, I question it, because I know that what they’ve assembled in the “official’ conspiracy theory, and put forth to the American public, is a collection of lies. So for now, I don’t have a full and documented analysis of what actually DID happen, and I can’t say when I may ever be able to provide that. It’s possible, as more and more information comes to light, and more documentation can be made available. Still, my only contribution so far, has been to make it abundantly clear that what the Thugs CLAIM to have happened - simply DID NOT!

Still, I’m overwhelmingly aware of the fact that PROVING that the WTC Towers (all 3 of them) – as well as those 2 passenger aircraft- were pulverized instantaneously via a controlled and pre-planned demolition will be difficult, because all of the concrete evidence was – pulverized, and then immediately disposed of. So, there’s nothing left (as there would be in any other disaster of this type) to use science to prove what actually happened. WE CAN however, use science to DISPROVE the official lies. And, we can even use science to come real close to what actually DID take place as well. But for now at least, that’s still in the works.

Meantime, there is absolutely nothing that prevents you or anyone else, from continuing to believe in the impossible. If you honestly think that pigs can fly, then it’s certainly not my intention to dissuade you. If you still believe that Santa Claus canvasses the globe every year within a 24 hour period of time, and manages to make it down every chimney on the globe, I can’t do anything about that either. And, I wouldn’t care to try. If I were legally and morally responsible for your well being, (and the well being of those around you), than I most certainly WOULD make it a point to seek some help for you, (or at least have you situated so that you couldn’t harm anyone else) but I don’t even know you. So you see, it really doesn’t MATTER whether you think I’m reasonable or not.

In short, this web site isn’t about YOU, (or me) and comments on this blog are not about –you-. My comments are directed at anyone who has access, and cares to take something from them, in the form of information that they can consider or disregard. I have that same opportunity. I can read, consider, and dismiss anything I want, or utilize as valuable information if it appears to be so.

And no, I don’t remember being ‘ousted’ as a ‘troll’ on this site or any other. Are you sure that’s what you meant? Ousted? Maybe you meant something else. You sound confused. (often)

I AM a little worried about your classmates though. Talk about creepy. This culinary thing means you have access to knives. Very scary.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

To antispin:

“WriterOnTheStorm and Akira both pose as atheists”

Woah, woah, woah. Hang on right there. I’ve been an atheist all of my life (and I’ve spent almost a year on An Atheist Manifesto arguing with faithies), so don’t even PRETEND to know what my faith (or lack thereof) is.

Moving on.

“and claim that to not believe that fire demolished these three buildings (WTC 1,2&7;) is equivalent to believing in things you don’t understand: ie the superstition of religion.”

...I really do hate it when people put words in my mouth. I didn’t say that, the other chap did. I said that I don’t believe in the conspiracy theory much how I don’t believe in God; I don’t see enough proof for either. Please read and differentiate between people before you act like an asshole. Thank you.

“Nice ruse, but there’s a logical disconnect: in fact, it is the official story of fire demolishing these buildings so that they collapse at the speed of free fall that is without evidence or science.  And to cite the Popular Mechanics guys is pathetic.”

But…I didn’t…-panic attack- WHY THE HELL WAS I INCLUDED IN THIS MESSAGE WHEN NOTHING IN IT HAS TO DO WITH ME?!

“There’s a reason it’s called “popular”: it’s not real and it’s not science.”

Like the ‘popular vote’, and the ‘popular theory of evolution’, and the ‘popular theory of poppler yumminess’...popularity does not mean false, last time that I checked…

“There is the magicians hand misdirecting us to look at the planes’ impacts; truly terrible spectacles, but the thing to focus on is the actual collapse, which is a non-sequitor.”

Yes, the last time that I checked, a plane full of civilians slamming into a building full of civilians is horrifying, thank you for letting my mind relive that sensation.

“Buildings don’t collapse that way because of fire.”

No; but a fucking PLANE hitting a building, followed by the jet fuel EXPLODING sure does weaken the steel structure to collapse.

“And the third building wasn’t even hit by a plane.”

No; but it was a VERY weak building to begin with that was already pretty much on the way to being a scrap heap.

“If you take the time to pay attention to the evidence, it is, sadly, irrefutable: controlled demolition in all three cases.”

I just refuted it. I didn’t need big words, and I didn’t even need to do much thinking. That was as irrefutable as proof for God…oh dear, I made a funny.

Moving on.

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By John Hanks, October 28, 2007 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Pearl Harbor was investigated time and time again by people trying to prove that FDR allowed the Japanese in.  Anyone who has read “At Dawn We Slept”, knows how unlikely this is. 

Supposedly FDR had one clear warning of the impending attack (debunked).  Bush had over 50 warnings for 911, and still we have had no more than one forced investigation by people who ignored the smoking gun, because they had an interest in oil. 

911 will be investigated and argued about through the rest of human history, and still a reliable investigation seems impossible today.  Cover up?  You bet.  The only thing in question is the extent and the reasons.

I now think that the Clintons have an interest in the coverup as well.  After all, Hillary is financed by the same people who brought us Bush.

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By antispin, October 28, 2007 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

I sense psyops, and I feel like Odysseus: how to hand these guys their eyeball on a stick?

WriterOnTheStorm and Akira both pose as atheists and claim that to not believe that fire demolished these three buildings (WTC 1,2&7;) is equivalent to believing in things you don’t understand: ie the superstition of religion.  Nice ruse, but there’s a logical disconnect: in fact, it is the official story of fire demolishing these buildings so that they collapse at the speed of free fall that is without evidence or science.  And to cite the Popular Mechanics guys is pathetic.  There’s a reason it’s called “popular”: it’s not real and it’s not science.  There is the magicians hand misdirecting us to look at the planes’ impacts; truly terrible spectacles, but the thing to focus on is the actual collapse, which is a non-sequitor.  Buildings don’t collapse that way because of fire.  And the third building wasn’t even hit by a plane.  If you take the time to pay attention to the evidence, it is, sadly, irrefutable: controlled demolition in all three cases.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 28, 2007 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#110138 by Non Credo on 10/28 at 3:14 pm
(410 comments total)

Inherit the wind writes:

As usual, Non-Credible can’t separate fact from fiction.  Clinton said “How DARE you?” not “I dare you!”

The difference is profound, but I don’t expect him to get it.
—————————

ITW: nothing I wrote implies or in any way depends for its sense on Clinton’s having said “I dare you!”, rather than “How DARE you?”

As a matter of fact, ITW, if Clinton had said “I dare you!”, then what I wrote would not make any sense.

Your post surpassed even your usual level of nonsensicality.

*********************

Liar.  Here’s the proof. You need to figure out how to keep your lies straight.  Don’t believe me: Anyone can check your post #109954.

#109954 by Non Credo on 10/27 at 10:20 am
(410 comments total)

It’s one thing for Clinton to express skepticism. It’s even OK for him to say that the theory is, in practical terms, ridiculously far-fetched. But Clinton’s sanctimonious “I dare you” is insulting and misplaced.

This pious “I dare you” implies that we’re all supposed to know of some MORAL limit to the criminality of the Bush administration.

There is zero evidence for such a limit, and plenty of proof that the Bush-Cheney administration is deeply malignant and malevolent. Furthermore, the pattern so far has been that we continually find new depths to this malignancy: every month, every week, every day, we find out that Bush is worse than we’d dared to think theretofore.

How dare Clinton try to shame those who rightly fear and loathe the evil that is Bush?

Don’t worry, Not-Credible: What you post rarely makes sense anyway.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20071026_fema_apologizes_for_make_believe_press_conference/

That right there? That aids your idea that the government is evil. I know that the government is evil, I have no way of lying to myself about that.

It’s honestly quite disgusting what they think they can get away with. Truly, truly disgusting.

I don’t know about all of you, but FEMA pisses me off.

That is all; please return to your regularly scheduled conspiracy theories.

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By Paolo, October 28, 2007 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

“Writeronthestorm” writes:

“I long ago gave up arguing with the truthseekers. After alienating a few friends and surviving one particularly ruinous thanksgiving dinner, I finally reached the conclusion that logic wasn’t the impetus for their theories, that theirs was essentially an emotional reaction to a tragic event.”

This has not been my experience. I have found many people who just find a lot of fishy stuff in the “official” 9-11 story and are looking for logical answers that have not been forthcoming.

This may come as quite a shock, but the US government has been known to lie. An interesting example of this was the obviously faked bin Laden video that has him allegedly confessing to planning the attacks. The only problem was that the “bin Laden” on the grainy video was obviously not bin Laden.

You mean, the US government LIED? Oh, my heart!

As a 9-11 questioner, I still hold that, just maybe, buildings 1 and 2 really did collapse at free-fall speed, not toppling, but going straight down, expelling shorn steel beams hundreds of feet, and reducing virtually all concrete to pulverized dust. All as a result of two jetliner impacts. I still say that maybe it’s possible—but I have yet to see a good explanation.

And then there’s Building 7, which collapsed about 8 hours after the impacts, neither of which hit Building 7 itself. There were some minor fires supposedly caused by a diesel fuel tank rupture. Again, maybe this somehow caused the symmetrical imploding of the building, with the outer structure being neatly pulled towards the core of building, then collapsing downward straight into the building’s footprint. Maybe there is a perfectly innocent, logical explanation of how this unprecedented event occurred. But I have yet to see it.

But I agree many 9-11 “truthers” get carried away and fall for obviously silly theories. This does not, however, prove that all theories are to be dismissed out of hand.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

“You’re coming unglued Akira. Go back to cleaning your fishbowl. Please tell me you don’t do that at the same time that you’re practicing your culinary skills.”

Fishbowl cleaning happens on Saturday mornings…no sense in cleaning it too much. Of course, now that you feel that you can’t persuade me to find you reasonable on your conspiracy theory, you’ve reduced this discussion to personal attacks on hygiene and intelligence. Gee, Cyrena, you must have surely noticed that the insults are a little one sided here. Dare I say that you have become a troll? Oh wait, weren’t you ousted as a troll on another article?

“I never did say that, though my posts to you were not indicative of me losing my temper.”

I will apologize; I got mixed up and mistook you for someone else. Unlike most people here, I admit my errors. I guess that makes me -worlds- dumber than you, doesn’t it?

Oh, I see; I wonder what you’ll sound like when you lose your temper, if this is calm and rational insult hurling. Insinuating that I’m too stupid for college and too inept to know that cleaning a fishbowl ought not happen in a kitchen? Golly, my mistake! These are clearly relevant to the discussion!

“I’ve so far not needed to resort to calling you an asshole, or cussing at you, or any of the rest of that. Seems like you’re the one who’s pretty much lost it.”

I’m a sailor, what can I say? Then again, if you knew a damn thing about the kitchen (which you obviously do not), then you would know that most kitchens are filled with swearing of all sorts. It’s not considered rude. But, I forget; most grown people out in the world cry when they hear naughty language. I didn’t realize that a 17 year old girl was capable of using worse language than a 54 year old, but I guess I’m mistaken. Warning, this child has been rated TRA: Too Rude for Adults.

“So, back to the original deal”

Thank you. Although you have already shown yourself to be an discourteous jerk, I’ll go ahead and continue to read and respond, even though you have already made assumptions about my intelligence that sway on the lines of psychotic.

“It is not, I repeat NOT unreasonable for any person, to question the Official Conspiracy”

I never said that it was unreasonable.

!HOWEVER!

It -becomes- unreasonable when you do what you are doing, I.E, going to other people and saying ‘question it!’, and when they don’t find it to be a conspiracy, which is what you -start- by saying, you immediately say ‘well, you’re just the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen!’ and proceed to bully them while acting as though you are superior. -Then- it is a problem. I could care less if you hold an opinion, but once your opinion is being hammered into my skull over and over again with the grace of a pitbull tearing a baby’s arms off, it is not right. I am entitled to my own opinion, after all, and just because I can’t find the proof that you have (just as I can’t find the proof for God that literally millions have) doesn’t make me wrong. It makes you a bully.

“So, don’t make us out to be the ‘crazies’-”

You are a crazy. I gave you a photo that has some engine parts that were found at the Pentagon. Wanna elaborate? Or will you just sit here and gloat while calling me stupid?

“Akira, I’m glad you decided against Johns Hopkins.”

Another witty remark by an equally witty writer! Why, Akira, I am so glad that you decided not to go to a great college, because you are clearly a shit chucking ape.

Essentially. Don’t pretty up your insults just because you don’t wanna sound rude. You sound ruder when you try to make it proper, because it lets my mind ‘fill in the gaps’.

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

110104 by Akira_Maritias

You’re coming unglued Akira. Go back to cleaning your fishbowl. Please tell me you don’t do that at the same time that you’re practicing your culinary skills.

•  Unless you purchased the schematics for a Boeing and then proceeded to hunt for EVERY photo, which means purchasing magazines, books, movies, as well as searching ALL of the internet,.

Didn’t need to do this Akira. These schematics are a part of my ‘brain bag’. (ask your dad what that is). All of these ‘schematics’ come with the “pilot package” not just Boeing, but any aircraft any licensed professional is certified to operate.

So yep, I need to know it all. And no, the FAA would NOT be impressed with any knowledge that I might gain from magazines or movies. I actually had to KNOW stuff for those 25+ years that I worked in the industry. And, I’m intimately familiar with the design/operation of the Boeing 757. (I do Airbus and DC series as well).

Now, when did I ever say that I don’t lose my temper? Curious. I never did say that, though my posts to you were not indicative of me losing my temper. I save that for things that are really a rationale for losing my temper. So, while I never said that I didn’t lose my temper, I’ve so far not needed to resort to calling you an asshole, or cussing at you, or any of the rest of that. Seems like you’re the one who’s pretty much lost it.

So, back to the original deal, and I’ll include writeronthestorm in this part( #110134)

It is not, I repeat NOT unreasonable for any person, to question the Official Conspiracy, when the official conspiracy indicates things are clearly at odds with the realities of physics/aerodynamics, among other things. Additionally, no one need be a member of any ‘cult’ to pose those reasonable questions. Yes, I agree that there are people who have gone off the deep-end in their quest for the truth to these events. However, your example of proving the existence of God, and the government proving that AA flt 77 actually crashed into the Pentagon, is way off.

Again, for the record, this isn’t about Arabs being able to ‘pull this off’ or not. And, while nobody can ‘prove’ or disprove the existence of God, that’s not what we’re talking about in respect to the 757 that allegedly hit the Pentagon.

In THAT case, the Official Conspiracy SHOULD be able to prove that a Boeing 757 passenger jetliner crashed into the Pentagon. It has NOT proven that, and anyone who has been present or even viewed (via film) the aftermath of ANY air disaster in the past ½ century, would find SOME indication that an aircraft actually did crash at any given location. AGAIN, this is the first time in the history of US aviation, when that has NOT happened. WHY do we not have ANYTHING of the sort, from the airplane that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon, or…for that matter, the UA flight 93, that allegedly crashed in PA?

I’ve said before, this is NOT complicated. Yes, it IS something far more likely to be ‘noted’ by those in the field, as opposed to a casual observer. But it is NOT unreasonable for anyone to expect, in the year 2001, that there would be some film footage, and reports, and photo’s of that airplane and ALL of the related emergency response, if in fact it had crashed there.

So, don’t make us out to be the ‘crazies’ just because we’ve asked some very basic and legitimate questions. And, they ARE basic questions. An NTSB report WOULD have had photos of this incident. So, where are they? The NTSB is bona fide US agency, as is the FAA, operating under the Department of Transportation. So, why is this the first time in recorded history that they have failed to investigate (for the record, and in triplicate) the circumstances of those 4 aircraft, and why have they provided NO information? (books, magazines and movies don’t cut it, we’re talking fact and reality here, not screen plays or comic book stuff).

Akira, I’m glad you decided against Johns Hopkins.

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By antispin, October 28, 2007 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ok, I sense psyops, and I feel like Odysseus: how to hand these guys their eyeball on a stick?

WriterOnTheStorm and Akira both pose as atheists and claim to not believe that fire demolished these three buildings (WTC 1,2&7;) is equivalent to believing in things you don’t understand: ie the superstition of religion.  Nice ruse, but there’s a logical disconnect: in fact, it is the ofiicial story of fire demolishing these buildings so that they collapse at the speed of free fall that is without evidence or science.  And to site the Popular Mechanics guys is pathetic.  There’s a reason it’s called “popular”: it’s not real and it’s not science.  There is the magicians hand misdirecting us to look at the planes’ impacts; truly terrible spectacles, but the thing to focus on is the actual collapse, which is a non-sequitor.  Buildings don’t collapse that way because of fire.  And the third building wasn’t even hit by a plane.  If you take the time to pay attention to the evidence, it is, sadly, irrefutable: controlled demolition in all three cases.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 28, 2007 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

I long ago gave up arguing with the truthseekers. After alienating a few friends and surviving one particularly ruinous thanksgiving dinner, I finally reached the conclusion that logic wasn’t the impetus for their theories,  that theirs was essentially an emotional reaction to a tragic event.

Recently however, it seems that the 9/11 conspiracy crusade has settled firmly into cult status, complete with brainwashing techniques, narcissistic delusions of persecution, and meme-like defense mechanisms. Apparently, if you doubt the conspiracy, you are either a terminal rube, or a shameless Bush apologists, two things decidedly out of fashion these days.

Observing this phenomenon may shed some light on the mechanisms through which so many were seduced by early Christianity. For every disciple thrown to the lions, there were ten potential converts telling themselves that if those folks were willing to die for their beliefs, then they must be true. Pretzel logic, of course, as the early Christians weren’t being oppressed because they were right, they were more likely being oppressed because the movement was considered spurious by the Jews and a festering political annoyance to the Romans.

Explaining why these conspiracies are drawing flocks of faithful followers is a little more complex that this might suggest of course. For some it is the ultimate expression of Bushbashing, although this eventually backfires, because it gives a great deal more credit to those White House squatters than they merit. For others, it is Islamophobia that drives them, they simply can’t accept that those “desert monkeys” were smart enough to pull it off.

And of course, we can’t overlook the possibility that many simply aren’t intellectually rigorous enough consider the numerous refutations of their belief system. It is mostly this type that can be compared to religious zealots. They even employ the same logic fallacies :

9/11 conspiracy theorist :  “prove there was no conspiracy, if you’re so smart.”
Christian equivalent : “can you prove god doesn’t exist?”
or
9/11 conspiracy theorist : “The people pulling the real strings are mad men with their own agenda”
Christian equivalent : “god works in mysterious ways” etc etc.

When it comes to 9/11 “truth” orthodoxy, I am an unapologetic heretic. However, I will apologize for the condescending tone inherent in this comment. It isn’t my intention to fishbowl a certain group for my own entertainment. Rather, my purpose is instructional. Can they tolerate that?

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By JK, October 28, 2007 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Billis (109884 + 110083),
You are quite right there are many architects and engineers that have gone on the record that the collapses of all three buildings were controlled demolition. (There is an entire organization of them, http://www.ae911truth.org.

You mention the thoroughly discredited and debunked Popular mechanics (PM) articles. Among many articles debunking PM, Here are two: (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm) and (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm)
I highly recommend Dr. David Ray Griffin’s book “Debunking the Debunkers”. For a small taste of Dr. Griffin on this, here is a link to video of him: (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=453888398303292237&hl=en)
I watched an interview with the PM author (who was obviously no scientist or even a professional). When asked how the hijackers were identified, he responded that their identities had been proven by DNA. When asked where the DNA came from to compare samples with he was speechless. The article was obviously commissioned and was full of already debunked material.

  Please lose the tone and the attitude and take a serious look at the evidence that proves conclusively that the preposterous official conspiracy theory is impossible and that all of the conspiracy buffs that buy the official story are both wrong (and lazy).

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By antispin, October 28, 2007 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am sorry to say that it is obvious that the three buildings didn’t collapse because of fires; they collapsed through controlled demolition.  That the USG thinks they can fool us into thinking otherwise is a testimony to their arrogant power and the public’s ignorance and indifference…or, as in Chomsky’s case, profound cynicism (he says, “yeah, if they did it, it’s not nearly the worst thing they’ve done…” - or words to that effect.)  “But how could so many incompetents get away with something like that?” is the usual objection from intelligent people.  My answer is that it didn’t take that many people and that the ruling class has a huge incentive to go along/get along.

The logician in me is, of course, horrified.  In logic we learn that anything can logically follow a false assumption.  For the USG and the military/industrial complex, this has meant that, truly, anything that furthers their power-hungry objectives goes.  That is also obvious.  But then, we all have to live with this cognitive dissonance re the truth vs. the fictional facts portrayed in the MSM.  For me, this is very painful.  I’ve found it exceedingly wearing on my psche and wish I could just ignore it, but I can’t.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

To Cyrena:

“I included in the SAME response, MULTIPLE COMMENTSfrom you. I’m very sorry that you couldn’t figure this out. I didn’t note each and every comment (number) from you, because it included several. So, don’t get your panties in a wad over it.”

Aw…I thought you don’t lose your temper? It’s not that hard to say ‘To: name’ whenever you have to respond to more than one person, and it certainly isn’t that hard to separate them. Guess common courtesy is something to get angry about.

“Most of the posters here seem perfectly aware…If you ever get to attend college, (though it doesn’t sound like you’re actually ‘college material’) this commission report will be assigned reading.”

Haha…insulting me again? I’m stopping you right now, because I graduated early from high school and I’m sitting in a dorm room. Granted, it’s for culinary school, but I bet that you put psychology classes above learning a trade. I could have gone to Johns Hopkins if I wanted to…but I didn’t want to.

“In the meantime, the thing I asked you to come up with, were photos of what should have been an airplane at the Pentagon, after the alleged Boeing 757 allegedly crashed into it. I thought you might (since you’ve gone so carefully through everything) have come up with that. You did not, and the reason you did not, is because that 757 did not strike the Pentagon.”

http://membres.lycos.fr/applemacintosh/Pentagon/outsidedebris.jpg

If you wanna bitch and moan, please make sure that you don’t gloat before I start showing you stuff. You sound like a pompous asshole when you do that. I know right now that it’s not good enough for you. I’ll look for more when you start bitching about that not being from a Boeing (or something as ridiculous as saying that they strapped those to a missile).

“I’ve examined any and every ‘photo’ that might be available.”

Bullshit. Unless you purchased the schematics for a Boeing and then proceeded to hunt for EVERY photo, which means purchasing magazines, books, movies, as well as searching ALL of the internet, as well as asking everyone who was near the incident if they took any pictures, you have not seen every photo.

“Keep looking, or stick the fork in your ear. Either way, your results are going to be the same.”

Your probably wondering why I stopped quoting and replying. I already have. You’re positive that you’re right, and you’re positive that I’m stupid. Those several paragraphs basically hopped around saying ‘oh yeah, I’m right, you’re not, planes hit WTC, but no plane hit Pentagon, don’t ask me where those people went, but I’m right, you’re not, blah blah blah I’m a genius, you’re an idiot’.

Essentially.

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Reply to#110063 by Akira_Maritias

Akira, please note the top line with your name in it. That is the format (or one very similar) that the majority of posters use, when they are replying or commenting on other comments. (as opposed to just commenting on the article in general).

I used this in my reply to niloroth, and you. For niloroth, I used his one comment and included that number. I included in the SAME response, MULTIPLE COMMENTSfrom you. I’m very sorry that you couldn’t figure this out. I didn’t note each and every comment (number) from you, because it included several. So, don’t get your panties in a wad over it.

Most of the posters here seem perfectly aware, by now, that the “official conspiracy’ (the 9-11 commission report that you haven’t read) was a cover-up for what actually occurred on 9-11. You don’t know that, because you haven’t read it. If you ever get to attend college, (though it doesn’t sound like you’re actually ‘college material’) this commission report will be assigned reading. (probably for a history course, though it could fall under other areas as well).

In the meantime, the thing I asked you to come up with, were photos of what should have been an airplane at the Pentagon, after the alleged Boeing 757 allegedly crashed into it. I thought you might (since you’ve gone so carefully through everything) have come up with that. You did not, and the reason you did not, is because that 757 did not strike the Pentagon.

Now Paolo may have misunderstood me as well. I did NOT say that there were NO AIRPLANES at the WTC. Obviously, there were. Not only that, but there was the very typical RESPONSE from the local emergency crew there in Manhattan. So, we know that those two airplanes struck those towers. We also know that those Towers were destroyed by demolition, and so the aircraft involved at that site were destroyed in the same manner. There is no ‘evidence’ to be gleaned from those aircraft, because all of the debris (all mixed together from the demolition) was immediately hauled off.

What I asked you to find was something that would indicate that an aircraft had actually struck the Pentagon, and I knew that you couldn’t do it, because THAT MUCH I’ve attempted to do myself. I’ve examined any and every ‘photo’ that might be available. There are NO SIGNS that a passenger aircraft was ever in the area.

Should I explain this for the 6th time? I can’t. There’s no need for you to do all of the work for me, because I’ve already done it. But, I wanted you to get the hint, that none of what you’re coming up with addresses the issue, which is that there is no sign of a standard emergency response to the incident at the Pentagon, and since you’re still so very young, you may never have seen what a normal response to an air disaster looks like. But, there’s no excuse, because all you have to do is check for the past say 20 or 30 years worth of ‘air disasters/plane crashes, and you will see what normally happens, and how emergency crews (and news crews) respond. Not only that, there will ALWAYS be ‘debris” left over from any airplane crash. It’s really not complicated.

This was somehow all very mysteriously missing from the incident at the Pentagon. There was ZERO debris, and next to ZERO response. I’ve found photo’s of a Pentagon with a hole in it, and there are photos showing one fire truck pumping water. I also saw a photo that included TWO ‘emergency” workers. Yes, TWO.

Where were the other dozens and dozens of emergency rescue vehicles? Where were the ambulances that are always present at such disasters? Where was the debris left from the aircraft? The baggage, the other cargo/freight, maybe a crumpled up wing, or trashed out food cart, or even the remains of an airplane engine?

Keep looking, or stick the fork in your ear. Either way, your results are going to be the same.

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By 911truthdotorg, October 28, 2007 at 11:09 am Link to this comment

The “official” story of 9/11 is an absolute lie.

Period.

All you have to do is believe your own eyes and not what “your parents” are telling you to believe.

The simple fact that the bush crime family, clintons, etc won’t release ALL the 9/11 information, Pentagon
security camera videos, etc proves that they have everything to hide.

The truth is their biggest enemy, and they know it.

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition (LC Final Cut on DVD Nov 11), 9/11 Mysteries, Terror Storm, America: Freedom to Fascism

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By John Borowski, October 28, 2007 at 10:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is a well known fact that the Republicans (Aka Conservative right wing) follow the leading Democrat around to cause disturbances. They call themselves “truth squads”, but in reality are goon squads. Madison Ave. (The ones in charge of “As seen on TV) was probably enlisted to make up this “protester” to look like a Do Good Liberal with beard, needing a hair cut and workman clothes. They are really there to disrupt the speech and to discredit the believers that know the Republican right wing is the one responsible for the 9/11. Clinton is in a bind because he knows if the public knew the truth about 9/11 there could be a rebellion in this country and could bring the country down. Choosing the lesser of two evils he admonished the ‘Goon squader.” The “Goon squader” a close cousin to the twelve fifties on this web site accomplished what he wanted to do. Denigrate the people that believe in a conspiracy and obfuscate the truth about what really happened in 9/11. I have no respect for their intelligence; I have to admit their cunning is at genius level.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 28, 2007 at 9:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Non Credo on 10/27 at 10:20 am
(407 comments total)

It’s one thing for Clinton to express skepticism. It’s even OK for him to say that the theory is, in practical terms, ridiculously far-fetched. But Clinton’s sanctimonious “I dare you” is insulting and misplaced.

This pious “I dare you” implies that we’re all supposed to know of some MORAL limit to the criminality of the Bush administration.

There is zero evidence for such a limit, and plenty of proof that the Bush-Cheney administration is deeply malignant and malevolent. Furthermore, the pattern so far has been that we continually find new depths to this malignancy: every month, every week, every day, we find out that Bush is worse than we’d dared to think theretofore.

How dare Clinton try to shame those who rightly fear and loathe the evil that is Bush?

**************

As usual, Non-Credible can’t separate fact from fiction.  Clinton said “How DARE you?” not “I dare you!” 

The difference is profound, but I don’t expect him to get it.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 28, 2007 at 9:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

niloroth on 10/27 at 6:14 am
(63 comments total)

cyrena:

I could write some fiction like that article you posted in about 30 minutes, and get it posted on the net.  Would you then believe it with no questions?

Just a few things. First the rather obvious fact that it is from an anonymous source, about an anonymous person, and at an unnamed news organization makes me wonder right off the bat.  In reading it a few things stand out to me that make me think this is nothing more than the typical infowars/prision planet conspiracy right wing disinformation.  Among them:

“Because of very lax, almost incompetent, enforcement of American immigration laws, many Muslim terrorists go to America to conduct their plotting, secure in the knowledge that unless they commit a crime, no one in authority will bother with them.” Which is a good dig at both the illegal immigration issue and also a good shot at the Muslim terrorists fears.

“The Americans are not anywhere as competent in dealing with terrorists as we are. We have been intimately involved with them since before 1948” If this was written by an Israeli, for one of their agents, why make mention of the history of Israel?  That really doesn’t help anyone but someone not as knowledgeable about the history of Israel, who according to the notes of the document, should never be seeing it.  However, it would help set the stage for people less knowledgeable who might be reading this on a random website.

“Because the FBI is often not particularly responsive or cooperative, we, in turn, only inform them of matters of common interest when absolutely necessary.” Again, a double dig, at once citing the ineptness of the FBI, as well as setting up the idea that the Israelis are holding things back from us.

“It would also permit, and most important, that the U.S. could attack Saddam Hussein. He was then one of our top enemies and had, in fact, bombarded us with missiles during the Gulf War.” Again, this would be redundant information for the people who would be reading this, so strikes me as out of place.

Seriously, just admit you will never be convinced it was not an inside job, but also that you have ZERO evidence to support that, and you will not do ANY fact checking at all.

You are like the Young Earth Creationists and the Holocaust Deniers.

************************

What a breath of fresh air! Someone is calling the tin-foil hatters on their BS and it ain’t me!

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By Inherit The Wind, October 28, 2007 at 9:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

thomas billis on 10/27 at 2:40 am
(Unregistered commenter)

I know that all you conspiracy on 911 are architects and building contractors .Coupled with your amazing knowledge of physics.Compounded by masters degress in steel strength.Well all those people who have that knowledge see no conspiracy.Popular mechanics had a more then plausible reason what happened to building 7 if you cared to look.Do you realize the breadth of the conspiracy you are invoking.Every architect in the free world.Every physics professor at every university.To top that you are accusing an administration that has trouble determinig which is ass and which is elbow to put this together and then to be able to conceal it.That is like asking a chimpanzee to quote Shakespeare.One good thing is that you do not let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.

They got all kinds of “facts”—like jet fuel burns at 500 deg F (NOT!) and a doctored video that “shows” that Bld 7 came down just like demolition…(look closely at the video and you’ll see HUGE differences—and all the training you need is the Sunday kid’s comic “Can You Find The Differences?”)

Every filmed demolition of a large building involves months and months of removing internal items and fittings, followed by weeks and weeks of careful planning, placing of charges, running miles of wire and tons of redundancy. Yet SOMEHOW, WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 were demolished by charges without ANY of this activity going on…nobody noticed the miles of wires….

Because they weren’t there.

Bill Clinton is tired of bullshit from the Right (just ask Chris Wallace) and bullshit from the Left.  Since he’s not President anymore, he doesn’t tolerate bullshit and idiocy and insults.  Don’t like it? Don’t vote for him!

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Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, October 28, 2007 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

Here’s an interesting reply to my earlier post about lack of investigation into the causes of the WTC 1 and 2 collapses:

“You just stated both the aim and the results of the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC 1 and 2.  No, really, they checked all the things you mentioned, and then released a report so that engineers could read it and learn from it.  You are very disconnected from reality aren’t you?”

The NIST report has about as much credibility as Colin Powell’s absolutely certain and factual presentation to the UN about Saddam Hussein’s enormous WMD capabilities. Basically, NIST was a $20 million coverup that is remarkable for it it didn’t address: pulverization of virtually all concrete in the towers, heavy steel beams being sheared off and expelled hundreds of feet out from the towers, and photos that clearly show columns cut off at a 45 degree angle, with cooled slag along the cutting point.

Now, who’s being “disconnected from reality?”

Having said all this, I have an open mind. It may be that these huge skyscrapers, with gigantic structural steel core columns, managed to collapse in such a way that those columns went all the way down to the ground, melted, and formed pools of molten metal that lasted for weeks. It may be that these buildings, rather than toppling (as one would expect from such an asymmetrical event as an airliner impact) did indeed fall straight down at near free-fall speed because of some mysterious factors we don’t yet understand.

But, we’ll never know now, because the crime scene was sealed off and all the evidence carted away.

Believing the official government line uncritically is what takes real gullibility. Questioning the causes of such unprecedented events as the collapses of 1 and 2 (not to mention the even more remarkable collapse of building 7)is not an act of gullibility.

Of course, there are some very loony theories floating around that DO require gullibility: the “no airplane” theories, for example. But I dismiss those out of hand.

Check out http://www.911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html
for more details on the NIST report.

And again, Clinton’s “outrage” is very revealing. “How dare you?” is not the response of someone wanting to explain someone else’s error: it is an attempt to shut down legitimate discussion.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 6:43 am Link to this comment

Oh, by the by Cyrena…

...Don’t be an asshole.

“But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise…”

That right there? Asshole statement. Wanna know why?

I said 400 something errors in LOOSE CHANGE. You haven’t watched Loose Change.

Acting like I couldn’t find any errors in something that you yourself have not watched is…well, it’s an asshole thing to do. Douchebags assume things like that.

In fact, I asked you specifically what problem you wanted me to find, but you never did get around to telling me what it was, and now you’re gloating about that? I’m sorry, Cyrena, but I’m not a mind reader. I don’t have psychic abilities to tell what the hell it is you want me to find.

Furthermore, you seem to act like everyone else is a ‘clone’ of me by saying ‘multiples’ and Akira. While I’m flattered that you seem to think that I have the ability to come up with so many different things at once, it annoys me to no end. Address everyone individually.

Now, you can continue to be an asshole to me (and everyone else, for that matter), or you can talk to me like a civilized human being. Which one?

And no, I did not read everything that you said in that 4 part message. Wanna know why? You were an asshole and grouped us all together. Separate please! I searched for my name, I took the corresponding paragraphs, and I replied. If you sifted a question in there somewhere that was meant for me, I probably missed it because it was in the middle of a Nilo or Paolo response.

I’m not doing all of the work for you. Separate them at the very least, because I have things to do.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

To Cyrena: (And you had damn well better read all of this second part, because if you don’t comprehend what I’m saying here I -might- have to shove a fork into my ear to distract myself from the pain)


“And, while I’ve asked Akira to produce some of this ‘evidence’ for me, figuring that his careful research-”

Her careful research.

“-of those 400 errors would certainly have allowed for him to do that-”

Her to do that. And I said 400 something errors. I’m not exactly tallying them up. That’s why I gave you that website; it’s got a ton of errors in that loose change video posted. But you, apparently refused to read it. Gah. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite!

“, (if in fact there was such a thing) But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise that he hasn’t-”

She hasn’t…aw hell, I give up. I’ll be a dude.

“been able to produce it either. The best thing he can come up with is that his dad saw the ‘hole’ in the Pentagon, and that his dad also flies airplanes. Gee. How many people know how to fly airplanes, (and to it for a living) and how many people saw that ‘hole’? It’s what we DIDN’T see that seems to be the problem, and that would be the AIRPLANE that allegedly CREATED the hole. Nope, nobody has seen that.”

‘Cause it ain’t there. But if nobody has seen it, then why the hell are you acting like you have? Calling my dad a liar again? Shame, shame, shame you hypocrite!

Since you have chosen to be a jerk to me, as I figured you would be, I guess that I’ll grab one of the errors from that site. Too lazy to read it? Dismiss it and act like you’re superior to me!

The statement on Loose Change -

“September, 2000. The Project for a New American Century, a neo-conservative think-tank whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz, releases their report entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defences.” In it, they declare that ” the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. “

The error (judgment error)-

“I have yet to come across a 9/11 conspiracy theorist who DID NOT use this quote as “evidence” that the terrorist attacks were an “inside job” by the neo-cons in the U.S. government. However, the PNAC quote is about the typically slow growth of military technology, abetted by budget cuts in defense R&D;. It is in no way a plan or suggestion for a “new Pearl Harbor.” Is it plausible that these “conspirators” would publicly announce a plan to kill thousands of Americans?”

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By Akira_Maritias, October 28, 2007 at 6:00 am Link to this comment

Cyrena…parts of what you say anger me, but not because you believe them to be truth. You make assumptions about me. A lot of assumptions. You then parade them as great reasons to -not- listen to me, and attempt to make me look stupid. Since toadies would never once question you, I suppose I need to protect myself. It doesn’t take much reading on this site to figure out a few things about me that clash with what you say; in fact, the first thing that I address tells me that you weren’t paying too much attention to what I said when we first started bickering.

“Just like I won’t look at it even after Akira has gone through the trouble to list it again. He’s 17, and I’m 54.”

She. I am woman. Rawr. Age shouldn’t have a thing to do with whether or not you would look into something to be courteous to the person you are discussing with, but apparently, it does. In fact, it’s apparently the -reason- why you shouldn’t look at it. Keep in mind that if -I- chose to not read the sites that you posted, you’d start saying that I was hiding from the truth and being stupid. So, ultimately you’re being a hypocrite, and I don’t like that. 54 year olds have such enrapturing lives that they can’t watch an hour and a half movie? Damn.

“There are several posts here that it would be to your and Akira’s advantage to check out. No one will lose any sleep if you don’t, or choose to waste your time chasing your tails. But, the point is that there are serious people giving serious thought to these things.”

I like the gems; the ones that call me stupid, a truth denier, a moron, lazy, cowardly, pathetic, etc. I -really- like those ones. Considering that there’s only a handful of posts on this article, and I -have- read all of the ones here, you must mean that I need to go to other articles. But wait! You’re -very- first post in this article announced that I was afraid of the truth because I kept posting in 9/11 related articles. Since I’ve done this twice, I shudder to think what you will say if I move on to other articles. Considering the ‘style’ that your ‘people’ write in, I don’t much want to read it either. It’s probably a few coherent thoughts slapped around with a bunch of insults that act as though those that don’t think their government did it are dumber than dumb.

Continued…

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By John Borowski, October 28, 2007 at 4:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All my life I have voted for the Democrats. The reason for this is I have a deaf ear to whatever speeches or promises any political party will produce before after the elections and voted Democratic. I usually gave a hundred dollars each election for the Democratic cause. Empirically, I know that the Democrats are twenty five percent for the average person and seventy five percent for the military/industrial complex. The Republicans are one percent (phony tax cuts) for the average person and ninety nine percent for the military/industrial complex. Any day in the week I will sweep away all the political BS because Republicans (Aka Conservative right wing) and Democrats are the only ones that have more than a snowball’s chance in hell of winning anything. I will gladly take the twenty five percent over the one percent every time simply because it is bigger. I learned this when I was a small child. When my uncle offered me a nickel or a dime, I always took the nickel because it was bigger. For now and what remains of the future I will never vote. I believe like 09/11, the 2000 election, the 2004 election any future election if any will be a total fraud. The military/ industrial complex won the war and we LOST. We are now at their mercy and one thing they don’t have is mercy. When this country had primarily small companies and shops, capitalism was tolerable. Today, we have huge multi-national companies and they show no allegiance to any country including our own. They will set up residence wherever they can exploit labor and make big profits. If George Washington was resurrected the first thing he would do is to reassemble his army.

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 3:07 am Link to this comment

Part 1 of 4 reply to#109907 by niloroth - Multiples by Akira

•  cyrena: I could write some fiction like that article you posted in about 30 minutes, and get it posted on the net.  Would you then believe it with no questions?

Nope, I sure wouldn’t believe it with no questions. But, that’s because I don’t believe much of ANYTHING – with NO QUESTIONS. And, if I know that it’s ‘fiction’ why would I? The article that I posted however, was not one that I happened to find or ‘research’ myself, since I don’t spend a lot of time actively searching for articles on the events of 9/11 any longer. Because…it’s been over 6 years since that event, and it’s been nearly 4 years since the “Official Conspiracy/Lie” was documented into a Report (at taxpayers expense) and I’ve read it, a couple of times actually.

Since I witnessed the events (as did nearly all Americans with access to a TV at the time, or since - those images have been replayed over and over again) I used my common sense and my experience as a professional in the aviation industry, to come to some obvious conclusions.

Basics like the Towers at the WTC were exploded/imploded by a controlled/planned demolition. IOW, neither the airplanes nor the jet fuel in those airplanes caused those towers to fall in the less than 10 seconds that they did. This is a no brainer. The same basics apply to the contrived incident at the Pentagon. NO 757 ever hit the Pentagon. There would be evidence of such, if that indeed happened. There is no evidence. The same thing applies to UA Flt. 93, which the official conspiracy claims to have crashed in a field in PA. That didn’t happen either; nor did any ‘Arab Terrorists” highjack those 4 commercial jetliners, with box cutters. Nor did they navigate those airplanes into those towers. That is an impossibility. It didn’t happen – at least not that way.

So, based on that very basic knowledge, anything that has come since, has been a collection of information here and there, some of which MAY have relevance to the larger question that all Americans want to know…the who/how/when/why the operation was carried out.

Consequently, any discussion from architects, engineers, or ‘popular mechanics’ is really secondary to the discussion. Not worthless, because anyone who’s taken the time to listen to the engineers and architects will learn that they too, have disputed the “official conspiracy.” The bottom line is that the towers were blown up; anyone with knowledge and experience in demolitions would ALSO contribute helpful information to the discussion. But an issue of “Popular Mechanics” doesn’t do it. 
Eyewitness testimony is also helpful, but the official conspiracy report ignores it. So, that would be another area where the 911 truth movement has been helpful. They’ve been able to bring to light important evidence that the Commission ignored. The sites like ‘loose change’ have probably provided some helpful information as well, but there’s really nothing NEW there, for me to see. So, I don’t look. Just like I won’t look at it even after Akira has gone through the trouble to list it again. He’s 17, and I’m 54.

The link that I recently posted is NEW information. I didn’t search for it myself, but it was posted on another thread where serious people (serious about trying to figure out the how/who/when/why) share new information, as it comes to light. And, it continues to do that, from the most likely AND un-likely of sources. Such as, a slip of the tongue from Rummy recently, confirming that it was a MISSILE that hit the Pentagon. Of course that’s what had been ‘suspected’ by many, but his ‘slip of the tongue’ was an important confirmation.
So, the recent article that confirms (along with some other things) that Dick Cheney was well informed in advance, and totally involved in carrying out the operation, does the same thing. It CONFIRMS what we’ve known or suspected from OTHER sources of information, which have surfaced in the past 6 years.

TBC

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 3:05 am Link to this comment

Part 2 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples by Akira

So yes, I DO know how to sort through what is relevant, and what is not, and that means that I wouldn’t pay any attention to any ‘fiction’ that you could come up with in 30 minutes. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t entertain yourself that way, but I can think of more useful ways to spend your time.
There are several posts here that it would be to your and Akira’s advantage to check out. No one will lose any sleep if you don’t, or choose to waste your time chasing your tails. But, the point is that there are serious people giving serious thought to these things. For instance here’s something from Paolo that I can testify to –with knowledge and experience, as being an important thing to ‘note’.

#109903 by Paolo
•  Doesn’t the FAA (properly) spend months after an airliner crash, painstakingly combing through the wreckage to determine exactly what went wrong? Even if investigators think they know what caused the crash? After all, there may have been some malfunction that was not detected.
But there was virtually no investigation at all. The remains of the twin towers (hereinafter renamed “Barad-Dur and Isengard”)were shipped off to China for recycling as quickly as possible.
Actually, it’s the National Transportation Safety Board that routinely investigates ALL aircraft “incidents” as they are known in the industry, but of course that includes the FAA, as well as other professionals from the industry. (the A/C manufactures, etc) And, this would be THE FIRST TIME in the HISTORY of US Aviation, when that was NOT done. It is also the FIRST TIME in US Aviation history, in which airplanes crashed without leaving ANY debris. NONE. We know that two of those airplanes (the ones at the WTC) would not have left the typical debris that is always found at such an incident site, because….THEY WERE BLOWN UP along with the towers, in a controlled demolition. But, amazingly, there was NO debris (at least not that we or the NTSB ever saw) from the other alleged crash sites either.

And, while I’ve asked Akira to produce some of this ‘evidence’ for me, figuring that his careful research of those 400 errors would certainly have allowed for him to do that, (if in fact there was such a thing) But of course like I said, I already KNOW that there isn’t, so there’s no surprise that he hasn’t been able to produce it either. The best thing he can come up with is that his dad saw the ‘hole’ in the Pentagon, and that his dad also flies airplanes. Gee. How many people know how to fly airplanes, (and to it for a living) and how many people saw that ‘hole’? It’s what we DIDN’T see that seems to be the problem, and that would be the AIRPLANE that allegedly CREATED the hole. Nope, nobody has seen that.

Directingenergy has also made a really good point, and I would have to agree. I don’t know how ‘helpful’ it is for those who choose to bring attention to the matter by interrupting people like Bill Maher, or even Bill Clinton, other than the fact that as non credo noted and others have noted here, the ‘denial’ from Clinton is very revealing. All he can say is, HOW DARE WE. Well, we DARE, because we have questions; because we know that what we’ve been told is a pack of lies. And, we KNOW that Bill Clinton is not a stupid man. He’s actually very intelligent. So, while this event did NOT occur on ‘his watch’ so to speak, there’s no doubt in my mind that he would have given this some attention himself, and come to many of the same conclusions. So, he knows very well, (whether he’s been privy to all of the details or not) that this was an inside operation.

TBC

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 3:02 am Link to this comment

Part 3 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples’ by Akira

Still, as I said in my agreement with the comments from directingenery, it may be counterproductive for the 911 truth movement to carry out disruptive antics such as this, if only because it allows for the deniers to have yet more reason to dismiss the truth. It’s easy enough to just label us all as ‘crazy’, and therefore keep the truth hidden for even longer. BUT, I would caution (and STRONGLY caution) anyone from connecting the activities of these isolated groups with those genuine activities of those who have chosen to protest the war, as well as the change in our entire way of living, and the destruction of our democracy, as in the destruction of our Constitution, and the Republic in which we all live and have believed in, for these past 250 years.

There is NO denying that WE – OUR NATION, has been high-jacked, and that began AT LEAST as earlier as December, 2000 with the Judicial Coup that gave the White House and the leadership to an unelected bunch of Thugs. The events of 9/11 have clearly been an important part of the ongoing fascist takeover, but we need to be sure that we are separating those who would only focus on 9/11 itself, (which is certainly enough to focus on) and the larger picture of how it fits into the entire takeover of our country. IOW, the connection between the 9/11 truth seekers is an important connection to all of the rest, because we know that 9/11 was engineered in order to bring about what has come since. The Shock Doctrine, as Naomi Klein has so well put forth in her most recent work. A Coup will always be among the many catastrophes’ that will bring those phenomena to the fore.

So, when we see those who would concentrate their activist awareness on the illegality of the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, let us not confuse them with those who have chosen to display their frustration about 9/11 and the fact that we’ve been so blatantly lied to, with what are admittedly pretty desperate actions. (i.e. the disruption of the Bill Clinton speech). I understand perfectly why they would do that, because it’s human nature to be very frustrated, these 6 years after the fact, that this administration has continued to lie to us, assuming that we’re all stupid, and/or stepfordized into accepting whatever they would shove down our throats. We WON’T.

But, we also know that any real investigation of the events of 9/11 will have to come from amongst ourselves, by sharing knowledge and expertise. We will never get the real story from anyone associated with the political Cabal in power, and the interruptions or other antics like we see here, aren’t likely to help.

The interruptions or antics that we see in Congress, or those recently directed at Condi Rice, are not the same, and so they should not be viewed as such. (at least that’s my own opinion.) Those actions have come about because nothing else has worked, and because this administration continues to wreck havoc and destruction, world wide. None of the standard procedures previously available in a real democracy have been ineffective. Rather, more and more of our rights have been destroyed. So, if there are a handful of people willing to take on the evildoers in whatever manner MAY work, they should be appreciated, not ridiculed or vilified, just for having some guts and a conscience, or for being GENUINE patriots.

TBC

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By cyrena, October 28, 2007 at 2:59 am Link to this comment

Part 4 of 4 reply to #109907 and ‘multiples’ by Akira

Meantime, I’ve decided to post this link –yet again- just because of the ‘reaction’ of the ‘deniers’. That too, reaffirms my sense of its ‘validity’. To attack it as being from an ‘anonymous’ source is laughable, considering that we’ve had 7 years of information from the Thugs on the Hill, (and in the bunkers) and it’s ALWAYS from ‘anonymous’ sources. It’s a template now, in ANY mainstream journalism or news that comes from the thugs. It’s like a built-in disclaimer for them, on any issue from A to Z and beyond. Nobody wants to put their names to anything; either because they’re lying, (which is most of them) or because they’re telling the truth, (far fewer of them) which could put them in genuine danger, from the very same Cabal.

So, it stands to reason that there would be no ‘named’ source for this info. To expect that is totally stupid, and assures me that you just really ‘don’t get it”. The article is clearly convincing enough to me, or to anyone else that has kept up with all of the other information that has come to light over the past 6 years. And yes, you really SHOULD read the Official Conspiracy Report, if only so you know what you’re attempting to defend. Otherwise, it’s kind of impossible for anyone to take you seriously.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2774.htm

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm

Andrew Greeley:
Those Who Love America
Feeling Brokenhearted

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102507E.shtml

The End.

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By Joe R., October 27, 2007 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bill brought us NAFTA.  He has been called the best Republican President ever by Alan Greenspan.  If Hillary gets elected does anyone really think the middle class won’t get sold out even more.  The Clinton’s are owned by Tyson foods and Walmart.  These are two of the most anti-labor corporations in the world.  We need new blood in the government.  There are to many dynasties in the Senate and Congress.  We have one in the White house and we are about to elect another one.  Clean it out and vote for someone else than the chosen front runners.  Edwards would be better than any of the other ones.  And he is electable.

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By John Borowski, October 27, 2007 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A poor victim is walking down the street on a sunny afternoon. Coming from the opposite direction a couple is also walking down the street. As they pass each other the husband takes a vicious swing at the poor victim. The poor victim’s jaw is broken and as he falls the husband kicks him in his ribs breaking one of them. A newspaper prints a story about the incident the next morning.
A second newspaper prints this story the same morning. As a husband and wife were walking down the street Mr. Victim coming from the opposite direction voiced an obscenity towards the wife and pinched her on the buttock. The husband went berserk and lost control punching Mr. Victim in the jaw and kicking him in the ribs.
If you read only one newspaper of the incident you really couldn’t be objective about it. For this reason I suggest that you not only read what the Bush controlled 9/11 Commission presents, but also read the other side of the argument from web sites such as 9/11 Hijacking Charts, Stop Lying,ae911truth.org, Scholars For 9/11 Truth, 9/11CooperUnion.NY and so many others too numerous to list. If you have an open mind and you are not one of the twelve fifties I believe you will change your mind.

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By DennisD, October 27, 2007 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bill, there are parts of America without “For Sale” signs on them yet. Do what you do best and see if you can sell or giveaway the rest of the country rather than comment on something you weren’t in office for and I’m sure know very little about.

I haven’t read enough to reach any conclusions about the 911 theories one way or the other but after watching 7 years of the Bu$h regime in action there is little or nothing I wouldn’t put past this cabal being involved in.

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By John Hanks, October 27, 2007 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As long as the suspicions remain and the accusations never stop, there is some slight chance of a real investigation someday.  If one never comes, we can assume the worst.  Remember that Nixon and Kissinger murdered 20,000 American soldiers by sabotaging the 1968 peace talks.  Remember that the Spanish American War started with a timely explosion.  The cartels have committed treason numerous times before.

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By jeanruss, October 27, 2007 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

does everyone forget that the Bush administration did not even WANT an investigation? We wouldn’t even have a 9/11 report if it wasn’t for the victims’families pushing hard for it-they carted away evidence so quickly-WHY the rush? why were the buildins purchased shortly before the terror incident when they were shown to be full of asbestos and would require BILLIONS to repair? Was this guy a sucker or did he already know that they would be demolished and he would be returned BILLIONS on his investment? It’s just too neat in too many ways to be an accident-Bush and company got everything they wanted and more-How can Clinton be so close to the Bushes after how they have driven the country into the ground? They are just part of the same power structure that really controls our lives-There is no difference between them-I can’t believe voters don’t see that this Bush/Clinton dynasty hurts us and hurts America-I also was surprised at the title of this article-what gives?

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By directingenergy, October 27, 2007 at 11:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It seems to me lately there is an increase in attempts to take apart or delegitimate the 911 Truth movement.

I worry about these protesters.  They make us all look like fools and I wonder about their true intent.

Folks who support the official conspiracy theory are of two classes.  The uninformed who parrot the party line without knowing the 911 Truth case or the disinformation artists.  Those who seem to be employed to take down, make fun of any mention of 911.

You who think you are fighting the good fight by supporting the official tale are working for an un-American rogue element.  None of you seem to have actually investigated the matter.  David Ray Griffin has two books which handily refute the government’s claims.  Dr. Judy Wood has been raising the most compelling front in her presentation of basic physics.

But I am asking all you protesters to stop the nonsense this way.  Shouting on Bill Maher does not help.  Attacking Clinton and rice makes us look stupid and unhinged,,,,exactly what the righties and the so called left are trying to make us out to be.  We are professionals and scholars and independent thinkers.  We are liberal and we are conservative and we are concerned that some unknown element has pulled off this event and gotten away with it,  We are concerned by the Iraq debacle and we are even more concerned by the rush to another war with Iran.  These men in control are crazy to suggest the use of nuclear weapons, but even to use conventinal methods where the world does not need more fighting.  Another war serves only the profit motive of the war markets.

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By Bill Blackolive., October 27, 2007 at 11:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Indeed. “Sooner or later everybody knows everything.”  What a world of the pitiful.

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By Bribery is Good, October 27, 2007 at 10:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Over 400 errors? what errors, anybody can just say something but don’t say anything to back it up.  Lets see we spent only $2 on the Iraq war and the Iran war will cost $1.50 - I can do that too.  We never gave any money to the people that owns us and we aren’t gving Israel the Middle east to control for our dictartorship of the world. .

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By Nwo Warriors, October 27, 2007 at 10:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who are these people defending the NWO/911.  I am pretty sure they are part of their political game, been sleeping under a rock, watching FOX everyday, living in Israel/New York same thing or most likely the standards tactics of the NWO to infiltate these/sites truth with confusion to make them look like weirdos and that you are not part of the USA.  Its like calling a Jew a Jew you are bad even if they murder, like saying a politician is evil when they are - you are unpatriotic and by saying the army don’t murder people - you are now unpatriotic.  What’s next showing up a peace protest and starting a fight to make them look bad too.Doesn’t matter anyways they have peieces in place all over the world(in cluding the Saudis) and they are ready to finish what they started a long time ago - Money and who has it always make them look correct an gets others to go along by gieving them $$$$.  Bill’s false smile is his way of saying you are screwed and you can’t do a damm thing about it - we think we have some say - we don’r not anymore; their next evil king is already picked for the presidency - Atleast he smiles, Rice looks at you like you are F*#@ed.

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By Hammo, October 27, 2007 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

Bill Clinton implies that it is innappropriate to question or investigate, or even consider, that there might be more to the 9/11 attacks.

It seems a safe bet that Hillary is also in bed with special interest groups who do not want the 9/11 attacks investigated further.

However, many Americans and people around the world do have questions and suspicions, as noted in the article below about a scientifically conducted poll of Americans ...

“Poll results on 9/11 attacks show many Americans have suspicions” 

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12137

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By www.nazilieskill.us, October 27, 2007 at 9:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Disregarding the physical evidence regarding the victims and the murder weapons, there is still plenty of evidence pointing to a “vast right-wing conspiracy”.  The fact that 911 was not investigated for a year and a half points to conspiracy.  We need a full investigation led by people who were not connected to any administration.

I think 911 was deliberately planned and carried out by the Neocons, right-wing Republicans, Israelis, and Saudis.  Unless enough people make the accusations, it will serve the interests of the cartel class to keep things buried.

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By 911truthdotorg, October 27, 2007 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

The 10 Steps to Fascism

bush has done them all

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

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By GB, October 27, 2007 at 8:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A clear reason why Hillary is wrong for the President. They are part of the machine that is stealing democracy and handing our nation over to the highest bidder.
George Bush was warned about 911 and he was wire tapping before 911 so all his arguments to suspend the bill of rights are continuing lies right up to the reasons to start killing innocent Iraqis.
Oil and weapons sales.
You have to ask yourself Why would the president of the US not want an investigation into the worst crime in the history of our country (911)? and 2, Who benefitted the most from the crime (911)? Answer Oil companies, Hallibutten, Blackwater, OPEC (Bin Ladens). 3, Now why would anyone in this country who conciders themself a patriot not want to get to the bottom of this?????

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By niloroth, October 27, 2007 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

Heavyrunner:

“I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.  If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.”

Wow.  It really doesn’t take much for something to go from joke to reality with you does it?

Anyway, since you brought up the other thread, any response to my proving that Jowenko clearly says that WTC 1 and 2 were not Controlled Demolition, like you trying to make it seem?  Or the fact that i linked you to a picture that showed exactly what you said didn’t happen when the towers collapsed?  Or a response to my refutation that the buildings fell at free fall speed?  No, typical truther style. 

Step 1: make assertions (usually gained from haveing watched loose change, and done no other research)
Step 2: ignore anyone who counters your assertion by using things like logic, proof, or fats.
Step 3: Make another assertion, and pretend your first assertion never happened.

and you have added a new one

Step 4: believe a joke about a skeptic working for the NWO, and then preach it as gospel.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 27, 2007 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

“I would just like to point out that nilroth and Akira_Maritias are posting the same rubbish on any thread that deals with getting to the bottom of what happened on 9/11/2001. “

Hey now! I’ve only been on two of these things, and the first one was because I thought the video clip would be funny! Honestly, I’m more of a faithie hunter than anything else…don’t act like I waste my time here. And I -never- post the same rubbish. I post -different- rubbish, and that’s an entirely different thing.

“I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.”

No you didn’t. Because if you did, you would have noticed some of the things that I said that got neatly ignored. But, I will say that you got close; at 16 I was being $12 an hour to work in a cubicle. I’m 17 and jobless right now, though. Sorry. I guess that the government is hiring teens now, too? Oh wait, I made a funny: teens aren’t smart enough to be included in this discussion!
 
“If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.”

Oh yeah…‘cause we have those damnable -lives- to live. Forgot about that, huh? I live in the East coast, sucka’. I get up at 6:00 AM, I do some stuff, I check truthdig, I do some more stuff, then I check truthdig 6 hours later, then I do some more stuff, then I go to sleep, then I occasionally wake up in the middle of the night and check truthdig, just ‘cause I’m restless like that.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a fish bowl to clean, and that captures my attention more than you.

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By heaavyrunner, October 27, 2007 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

I would just like to point out that nilroth and Akira_Maritias are posting the same rubbish on any thread that deals with getting to the bottom of what happened on 9/11/2001. 

They should instead spend some time learning about fire and gravity and what those energy sources can and cannot do.  They cannot, for example, cause skyscrapers to be blown to smithereens, which is what the video of 9/11/2001 clearly shows happened to the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center.

I read a response to some of their posts on another thread that unmasked them as paid hacks in a cubicle somewhere making $12.50 an hour to post disinformation.  If you watch their timing they only post for about 8 hours a day and then they disappear until their next shift starts.

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By niloroth, October 27, 2007 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

Paolo:

“When you speak the truth:

First, they ignore you.
Next, they laugh at you.
Then, they are outraged at you.
Then, they attack you.
Then, you win. “

First you have to speak the truth there big guy.  Something the ironically named truth movement has been fully unable to do. 

“You would think that, given the fact both buildings fell straight down after an airliner impact—an event both buildings were carefully engineered to be able to withstand—there would be months of forensic investigation to see exactly how the towers fell. What design flaw could have led to such a catastrophic failure? Were some aspects of the building not built to specifications? What aspects of engineering and design were insufficient to prevent the collapse—and how could engineers design buildings in the future to prevent such an event from happening?”

You just stated both the aim and the results of the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC 1 and 2.  No, really, they checked all the things you mentioned, and then released a report so that engineers could read it and learn from it.  You are very disconnected from reality aren’t you?

You mention Steven Jones, would that be the same steven jones who went to burning man with a huge steal sigh that we was going to cut with thermite to prove that it could be done?  And then had to just burn the thermite in front of it because of 1) the failure to figure out how to construct the cutter charges he claims brought down the towers.  2) They couldn’t figure out how to get the thermite on the steal.  3) they claimed it was to windy for it to work.  So in otherwords, he claims that imaginary weapons were used in a way he can’t explain, to bring the towers down?  And he couldn’t get a demonstration to work in high wind, but he expects people to believe that it was possible in an occupied high rise, that was to be hit by a plane, set on fire, and subjected to the winds 80 stories up on a high rise that had windows blown out from the plane impact?  Who is taking this man seriously?  Oh yeah, thats right, you are.

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

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By John Borowski, October 27, 2007 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Things must be getting hotter for the Republicans (Aka Conservative right wingers) regarding 9/11. At least thirty six percent of Americans believe the right wing evils perpetrated the crime of the century against innocent American children, young Americans, and older Americans by killing well over three thousand of them at 9/11. There are at least thirty six percent of Americans in addition that believe they should keep their mouths shut if they want to protect their families even though they know the right wing killed their Americans. When you see a phony picture of Bill Clinton smiling with Bush on Truthdig you should know the cancerous evil that has permeated our society. I will assure you that the A-H that confronted Bill Clinton’s speech was a right wing plant. Not only do the Republicans (Aka Conservative right winger) try to disassociate from Bush because of his popularity is lower than whale waste, but they try to imply it was Bill Clinton that was responsible for 9/11.

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By anonymous, October 27, 2007 at 7:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

very strange response and he doesn’t make scenes without a lot of rehearsal

the objective was to kiss more conservative butt and nobody does it better

the primaries are irrelevant, the voters can suck it

it’s high time for a woman to be President but not this one

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By niloroth, October 27, 2007 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

cyrena:

I could write some fiction like that article you posted in about 30 minutes, and get it posted on the net.  Would you then believe it with no questions? 

Just a few things. First the rather obvious fact that it is from an anonymous source, about an anonymous person, and at an unnamed news organization makes me wonder right off the bat.  In reading it a few things stand out to me that make me think this is nothing more than the typical infowars/prision planet conspiracy right wing disinformation.  Among them:

“Because of very lax, almost incompetent, enforcement of American immigration laws, many Muslim terrorists go to America to conduct their plotting, secure in the knowledge that unless they commit a crime, no one in authority will bother with them.”  Which is a good dig at both the illegal immigration issue and also a good shot at the Muslim terrorists fears.

“The Americans are not anywhere as competent in dealing with terrorists as we are. We have been intimately involved with them since before 1948”  If this was written by an Israeli, for one of their agents, why make mention of the history of Israel?  That really doesn’t help anyone but someone not as knowledgeable about the history of Israel, who according to the notes of the document, should never be seeing it.  However, it would help set the stage for people less knowledgeable who might be reading this on a random website.

“Because the FBI is often not particularly responsive or cooperative, we, in turn, only inform them of matters of common interest when absolutely necessary.” Again, a double dig, at once citing the ineptness of the FBI, as well as setting up the idea that the Israelis are holding things back from us.

“It would also permit, and most important, that the U.S. could attack Saddam Hussein. He was then one of our top enemies and had, in fact, bombarded us with missiles during the Gulf War.”  Again, this would be redundant information for the people who would be reading this, so strikes me as out of place.

Seriously, just admit you will never be convinced it was not an inside job, but also that you have ZERO evidence to support that, and you will not do ANY fact checking at all. 

You are like the Young Earth Creationists and the Holocaust Deniers.

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By niloroth, October 27, 2007 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

911truthdotorg:

So now we are on endgame?  Let me get this right, first it was loose change, then that was shown to be so full of lies that they put out the second edition, which i think was found to have over 150 errors?  So now they are putting out version 3?  Good track record there.  And Alex Jones puts out 9-11 road to tyranny, same deal, lies and half truths, then he tries with terror storm, and taking a page from the loose change playbook has to do a second cut because the first was so weak.  And now we are on to Endgame? 

These people can’t eve lie well.  Why do you buy into this?

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Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, October 27, 2007 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

When you speak the truth:

First, they ignore you.
Next, they laugh at you.
Then, they are outraged at you. (That’s where we are now with Clinton, Bush, and the rest of the establishment regarding 9/11 theories.)
Then, they attack you.
Then, you win.

I am convinced there is a lot of very fishy stuff about 9/11. You would think that, given the fact both buildings fell straight down after an airliner impact—an event both buildings were carefully engineered to be able to withstand—there would be months of forensic investigation to see exactly how the towers fell. What design flaw could have led to such a catastrophic failure? Were some aspects of the building not built to specifications? What aspects of engineering and design were insufficient to prevent the collapse—and how could engineers design buildings in the future to prevent such an event from happening?

Sorry Bill Clinton—but you can’t cheat an honest man. And an honest man has to ask those questions. In other words, even if I stipulate the buildings collapsed solely because of the airliner impact and subsequent fires (and that’s a HUGE stipulation), then you’re still left with the honest question: why would you not want to investigate the crime scene?

Doesn’t the FAA (properly) spend months after an airliner crash, painstakingly combing through the wreckage to determine exactly what went wrong? Even if investigators think they know what caused the crash? After all, there may have been some malfunction that was not detected.

But there was virtually no investigation at all. The remains of the twin towers (hereinafter renamed “Barad-Dur and Isengard”)were shipped off to China for recycling as quickly as possible.

I know many of the conspiracy theories are loony, but many others are quite credible (see Professor Steven Jones’ research if you doubt this).

Bill Clinton’s feigned outrage is very revealing.

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By thomas billis, October 27, 2007 at 3:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I know that all you conspiracy on 911 are architects and building contractors .Coupled with your amazing knowledge of physics.Compounded by masters degress in steel strength.Well all those people who have that knowledge see no conspiracy.Popular mechanics had a more then plausible reason what happened to building 7 if you cared to look.Do you realize the breadth of the conspiracy you are invoking.Every architect in the free world.Every physics professor at every university.To top that you are accusing an administration that has trouble determinig which is ass and which is elbow to put this together and then to be able to conceal it.That is like asking a chimpanzee to quote Shakespeare.One good thing is that you do not let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.

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By Peter Holmes, October 27, 2007 at 2:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Although it’s hard to believe, the evidence proving 9/11 was an inside job is overwhelming.  If you are at all unsure on who is right in this debate, please read either of David Ray Griffin’s last two books.  Or check out what professional Architects and Engineers have to say over at AE911truth.org.  Anyone see that latest film that zooms in on the demolition flashes visible as the buildings are going down?  Search for demolition flashes on youtube.  The heart doesn’t want to believe it, but the brain knows it’s true, obvious even.  We have a major problem on our hands and the sooner we deal with it the easier it will be.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 27, 2007 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

“All I needed to do was to read the Official/Authorized 911 Commission report, to know that it was an inside job. So, how did you figure out there were more than 400 errors in the ‘loose change video’?”

Watched it. Researched it. Researched it as soon as I heard him say something. Every name that he used, I searched for their credibility. Of course, I never did read the 9/11 commission report, so I guess I don’t have all of the info. Then again, considering the countless number of people who read it without changing their opinion, as well as the fact that the government that you seem to think did this was dumb enough to release that to the public when it apparently -clearly- proved that they did it….well, you ain’t proving much to me. Just hurling insults while the posse is away.

“Have you ever read the official report? How do you know these are errors? Humm, I noticed you didn’t point any of these out. Just enough to say that there are more than 400 errors in it.  So, what are they? Save me from having to go through it myself.”

Yeah. Let me sit here and list the 400 something errors off the top of my head.

....Here.

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Took me a few seconds of searching. Someone’s been courteous enough to go through the ENTIRE movie and find errors. If you’re too damn lazy to read it (you have hours to waste here throwing insults at random people but can’t manage to read something that might disagree with your thought process?)

Of course, if you whine some more, I’ll just have to search through it to find an error that might be glaring enough for YOU to notice.

“Anyway, I’ll agree that it’s pretty sad for those of you who are so desperate to avoid reality. Don’t you believe in the adage about “the truth will set you free”? What don’t you want the rest of us to figure out? I’d say it’s kind of late for that, though it’s sort of fun to watch you guys become more and more frantic. Never has there been a time when so many folks are so terrorized by the truth. What a sad and pathetic existence for you.”

Yeah, I’m the frantic one. Sad and pathetic existence? Wow. I love it when people assume things about my life. I again wonder why you seemed to fall silent on that other board, where I made civilized assertions about why it is that every ‘fact’ gifted to me by some of you guys is laced with so many insults that I ponder if you even care that there’s a human writing this stuff to you. If you honestly feel that what you say is the truth, you wouldn’t be wasting time trying to make more enemies, especially when you’re trying to spread a secret that the government was willing to kill thousands of innocent people for.

“I’ll say some prayers.”

I’m atheist, spare your breath. God won’t listen. He’s too busy with Bush and Dick to care.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 27, 2007 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

I hate it when I’m right.

Cyrena,

“Akira, which is it? Can’t you make up your mind? Either you love it, or it scares you shitless? Which is it? You don’t really seem to be scared shitless, since you’ve still got plenty of shit to paste all over these boards.”

No, I think you know that I’m scared shitless. Although, I think it silly for you to assume that you know what I mean when I say that, as I also think it silly that you seem to know what I feel.

I love it, but it scares me shitless. The utter hypocrisy of what you do and say is…remarkable to me. However, it’s the fact that -anyone- can sit there and say what you say that frightens me. It means that your brain rationalized what you say, and you have people who agree with you. You think that’s enough to prove you right, to boot. Islam, Judaism, Christianity…well, golly, they all have the -exact- same idea about their (not so) respectable religions. Hence why it frightens me, and makes me love it all at once.

“But then again, all of these ‘sheeple’ running around exposing the truth might indeed just be giving you a case of diarrhea of the mouth, and constipation of the brain.”

My…away from your truthie friends you get stunningly foul and violent, as if you intend to instigate a fight. Where were you when I posted some sensible things to Sheila? Oh, that’s right, you were too busy telling her not to listen. You aren’t exposing truth; you’re running from one 9/11 related article to another, arguing with the same handful of people. Considering the way that you act when you do this, do you honestly expect -anyone- to believe you who does not already think that there is a conspiracy?

“So, at some point, the imbalance may indeed scare you shitless. We’ll hope sooner than later.”

I already said that I’m scared shitless. And I’m glad that you’ve revealed your intentional desire to see me cowering in a corner in utter fear. Truly. It’s…so nice of you.

“Oh, by-the-way….I’ve NEVER even looked at the ‘loose change video’ and don’t have a clue to what’s in it.”

So ‘smart’...yet you feel the need to be so dumb…Cyrena, when in that tiny little quip did I -ever- say your name? I never once meant to address any one of you; in fact, that last part about you guys almost didn’t get added. Do I need to put up warnings saying ‘this isn’t for you, Cyrena!’ next time so you don’t have a panic attack?

Continued…

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By CrazedLeper, October 26, 2007 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Clinton definitely knows more than he’s saying. How do we know? Because he didn’t say anything.

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By JK, October 26, 2007 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

linton doth protest too much.
He knows he is wrong. How dare he! How dare he!

He has the blood of more than one “false flag” on his hands from his own watch. When the FBI undercover agent provocateur who was part of the 1993 WTC Bombing became suspicious that he was being set up, he recorded hundreds of telephone conversations with his handler. Many of the most damning of those audio-tapes are available online. The FBI was to supply pseudo-explosives i.e. non-explosives for the attack. After the bombing, the undercover agent grilled his handler about this and was told that the FBI did not supply the materials after all and that he should say nothing to anyone.  It seems likely that his recordings are the only reason he is not sitting in prison with the other patsies.  Like the Murrow Federal building and the 9/11 attacks, in-depth investigations were prevented, contradictory evidence and evidence of cover-up were suppressed. The most preposterous conspiracy theory, i.e. the one that defies the laws of physics, the testimony of whistle-blowers in every department and agency as well as mountains of physical evidence and at the same time ignores the hundreds of statements from Bush on down later contradicted or proven false,  ignores the repeatedly modified and incompatible testimony of NORAD, ignores the composition of the Bush selected 9/11 commission, ignores the many drills (exercises) coordinated through multiple branches of the government simulating flying planes into the WTC (including the unprecedented number of exercise running the morning of 9/11) etc. etc. Clinton, unlike Bush, is educated and intelligent and knows damn well that every war this country has been in has involved “false flag” PSYOP attacks to convince the public that war is necessary. This article and the comments this far are an insult to intelligence and the seriousness of 9/11 and the critical need for in depth independent investigation that does not begin with a conclusion to work towards.  The elephant in the room is massive. Wake Up please! We and our Constitution, our republic and our sacred principles face a very real existential threat. The threat is what the “founding fathers” predicted it would be, elements inside our own government and our fellow citizens that have been fooled by them with massive propaganda campaigns. A quote from almost a century ago remains true. “When fascism comes to this country it will be carrying a bible and draped in the American flag”. It is already here. Others noted within the past century that when tyranny is imposed, if it isn’t forced upon us, we will demand it. We are there.
This website, which I otherwise enjoy and agree with, needs to wake up to the greatest dangers facing us.
JK

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By cyrena, October 26, 2007 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

#109837 by Akira_Maritias

•  I love it…sheeple running around trying to act like they aren’t sheeple…actually, I don’t love it. It scares me shitless.

Akira, which is it? Can’t you make up your mind? Either you love it, or it scares you shitless? Which is it? You don’t really seem to be scared shitless, since you’ve still got plenty of shit to paste all over these boards.

But then again, all of these ‘sheeple’ running around exposing the truth might indeed just be giving you a case of diarrhea of the mouth, and constipation of the brain.

So, at some point, the imbalance may indeed scare you shitless. We’ll hope sooner than later.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2774.htm

Oh, by-the-way….I’ve NEVER even looked at the ‘loose change video’ and don’t have a clue to what’s in it. All I needed to do was to read the Official/Authorized 911 Commission report, to know that it was an inside job. So, how did you figure out there were more than 400 errors in the ‘loose change video’?

Have you ever read the official report? How do you know these are errors? Humm, I noticed you didn’t point any of these out. Just enough to say that there are more than 400 errors in it.  So, what are they? Save me from having to go through it myself.

Anyway, I’ll agree that it’s pretty sad for those of you who are so desperate to avoid reality. Don’t you believe in the adage about “the truth will set you free”? What don’t you want the rest of us to figure out? I’d say it’s kind of late for that, though it’s sort of fun to watch you guys become more and more frantic. Never has there been a time when so many folks are so terrorized by the truth. What a sad and pathetic existence for you.

I’ll say some prayers.

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By JK, October 26, 2007 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Clinton doth protest too much.
He knows he is wrong. How dare he! How dare he!

He has the blood of more than one “false flag” on his hands from his own watch. When the FBI undercover agent provocateur who was part of the 1993 WTC Bombing became suspicious that he was being set up, he recorded hundreds of telephone conversations with his handler. Many of the most damning of those audio-tapes are available online. The FBI was to supply pseudo-explosives i.e. non-explosives for the attack. After the bombing, the undercover agent grilled his handler about this and was told that the FBI did not supply the materials after all and that he should say nothing to anyone.  It seems likely that his recordings are the only reason he is not sitting in prison with the other patsies.  Like the Murrow Federal building and the 9/11 attacks, in-depth investigations were prevented, contradictory evidence and evidence of cover-up were suppressed. The most preposterous conspiracy theory, i.e. the one that defies the laws of physics, the testimony of whistle-blowers in every department and agency as well as mountains of physical evidence and at the same time ignores the hundreds of statements from Bush on down later contradicted or proven false,  ignores the repeatedly modified and incompatible testimony of NORAD, ignores the composition of the Bush selected 9/11 commission, ignores the many drills (exercises) coordinated through multiple branches of the government simulating flying planes into the WTC (including the unprecedented number of exercise running the morning of 9/11) etc. etc. Clinton, unlike Bush, is educated and intelligent and knows damn well that every war this country has been in has involved “false flag” PSYOP attacks to convince the public that war is necessary. This article and the comments this far are an insult to intelligence and the seriousness of 9/11 and the critical need for in depth independent investigation that does not begin with a conclusion to work towards.  The elephant in the room is massive. Wake Up please! We and our Constitution, our republic and our sacred principles face a very real existential threat. The threat is what the “founding fathers” predicted it would be, elements inside our own government and our fellow citizens that have been fooled by them with massive propaganda campaigns. A quote from almost a century ago remains true. “When fascism comes to this country it will be carrying a bible and draped in the American flag”. It is already here. Others noted within the past century that when tyranny is imposed, if it isn’t forced upon us, we will demand it. We are there.
This website, which I otherwise enjoy and agree with, needs to wake up to the greatest dangers facing us.
JK

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martin weiss's avatar

By martin weiss, October 26, 2007 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

That’s ok, Bill. We know what happens to those who know too much. We’ve seen all the plane crashes and “suicides”.
BUT, SOONER OR LATER, EVERYONE WILL KNOW EVERYTHING.
True, we’re guessing now, but eventually the truth will out.
The majority of the American people still wonder why the Strategic Air Command happened to stand down that day—why WTC 7 collapsed—and where are the big indestructible jet engines at the pentagon?
Why did Bush refuse Saddam’s offer to bring the US Army into Iraq?
Why did Bush refuse Ahmadinedjad’s offer to stop Uranium enrichment?
Come on, Bill, we dare because we’re Americans raised back when it was a free country, before you had to take off your shoes and show a passport to fly to Des Moines.
We dare to seek the truth and anyone can see someone’s hiding the truth. Come on, Bill. How dare you play us for suckers? There’s a lot of folks out here in the boonies a lot smarter than even your Oxford butt. How dare we, indeed?

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By 911truthdotorg, October 26, 2007 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

Alex Jones’ new video: Endgame

What clinton, bush and the rest of the elites have in store for the rest of us:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261

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By 911truthdotorg, October 26, 2007 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

He’s a bushie just like his horrible wife….what do expect? He knows. They ALL know.

They are absolutely scared shitless that their little 9/11 charade is unraveling faster than they know how to react…so this is their next opposing tactic -

A “Thought Crime” bill

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/261007_ensnare_activists.htm

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition, Terror Storm, America: Freedom to Fascism

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By Akira_Maritias, October 26, 2007 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Anyone believing Loose Change has a little issue with a ‘loose brain’...you can find over 400 errors in that little piece of crap video, if you’re willing to do your research instead of eating it up like anti-freeze in a petting zoo.

It’s -really- sad when Clinton is saying ‘How dare you!’

Really…really sad.

Now watch all of the truthies from the last A/V booth swarm over here to spew the same message as many times as possible until there’s just endless pages of them…haha…‘high-fiving’ each other.

I love it…sheeple running around trying to act like they aren’t sheeple…actually, I don’t love it. It scares me shitless.

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By Fools on the Hill, October 26, 2007 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And Bill was doing what while terrorists were making plans?

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By weather, October 26, 2007 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment

Bill you took the brown bag so much you’ve developed carpal tunnel. Never mind the 11:59pm Marc Rich, Pincus Zuckerman bribe, that’s small change.

No Billy it’s the “Loose Change” you’d rather not confront. You’re a fraud and so is your wife - just ask Al Gore.

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By Petrichoriny, October 26, 2007 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

so, he neither confirms nor denies, just says, “How dare you?” c’mon, bill, we’re not convinced.

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