Franz Boas the Jewish sociologist said: “The only thing a person can do for humanity is to tell the truth whether it be sweet or bitter.”

Rice and Bush are perfect examples - “the proofs in the pudding” - that what AIPAC and Israel demand of all of America’s politicians, Presidents, Secretaries of State and UN Chairmen - is that they are and remain mediocrities of the highest class possible.

Before his stroke Israeli Prime Minister Sharon said: “We own America - and America knows it.”

Facts like that don’t even bother any of our politicians. They can not concern themselves with facts like that because if they do they will get thrown out Congress and politics.

What just about every American has been deliberately conditioned to care about is Israel needs only - even before America’s needs.

But facts (and factual reality)  do not cease to exist because it is ignored by the vast majority.

What did Nietzche say about denial of truths and reality:

“All shrouded, hidden truths become poisonous.”

#109644 by Marshall

•  You: “Americans certainly DID NOT support it [the Iraq War] by any majority”

(marshall’s Reality: “USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003.”

More of marshall’s cognitive dysfunction….when he says that 75% of Americans felt the US did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003. He doesn’t say WHEN Americans felt that way, so he’s included a citation from USA today via Wikipedia.
Then he says: …..”since public support for the war was at a majority at the time of the invasion as I’ve shown….” (I’ll repeat in caps AT THE TIME OF THE INVASION).

So, without even reading the date from the USA today poll, he’s confirmed this inability to connect concepts, facts, etc, in any general sense of logic, or in any logical time sequence. It’s the typical tactic of those who re-write history to suit their own picture of what it’s all supposed to mean. (or what they want it to mean.)

Since he was responding to my own message, (#109588) he specifically chose to ignore this part of that very same message..
•  Americans certainly DID NOT support it by any majority. Those who DID support it, were those who had been tricked into believing that Iraq was somehow responsible for 9/11 (we knew all the time that was a lie) or that they had WMD, (we knew that was a lie as well) or that the Iraqis had asked for ‘liberatation’, (they did not, but they’ve been liberated by death anyway.

I’ll repeat for Marshall’s benefit…Your ‘stats’ are from way back when Americans were still stupid. And, while anybody (With a reasonable amount of intelligence) KNOWS that all 300 million Americans were NOT ‘polled’ to come up with 75% of Americans supported this war, I’ve already addressed –in the original post- the reasons why ANY Americans supported it –AT THE TIME- They were ‘tricked’ by the hype and lies emanating from the Thugs in D.C.

So, for the record, (and NO Marshall, you don’t have to respond, because you just keep showing your ignorance, which is of no real value to you)
There is NO WAY to claim that 75% of Americans supported this war at ANY time, because 100% of Americans were not polled. We should also add the fact that those Americans who did not support this invasion –were left out- of ALL media accounts in the US media) Foreign media did a much better showing, proving (by recorded/live action documentation) the overwhelming protests taking place in various European countries.
 
And again, for those Americans that DID appear to support the invasion AT THE TIME, (yes, civilians included, but are you aware that members of Congress are CIVILIANS? Duh!) were those who were fooled by all of the lies…The fake ‘terrorist’ connection, the lies about the WMD, and later, much later, (when all of the other ‘reasons’ surfaced as lies) to allegedly ‘liberate’ the Iraqis. The bottom line of course, was about ‘liberating’ their OIL, and the Iraqis have known that all along.

You’re just stupid Marshall. Fortunately, most Americans have since wised-up.

So, you can go back to looking for the kind of ‘board activity’ that lines up with your re-configured version of history. There’s plenty of board activity going on, it’s just not in the form that you want to hear.

Still, if you like to read these gallup polls, (and they do serve a useful purpose, as long as they are considered in their RELATIVE CONTEXT, maybe you should check out some of the same, THESE 5 YEARS LATER.

You and Toto aren’t in Kansas anymore Marshall.

Consider catching up with real time.

Stass #109649, free elections in our country are supposed to work.  We told Condi, Bush, Dickie and congress we’ve had enough in 2006.  THEY DIDN’T LISTEN!  They’re like a bunch of middle schoolers.  At this point, I don’t care how the protest looks to those people.  Sometimes you have to hit a mule upside the head with a 2x4 to get his attention, as the old joke says, the mules here being our government and the reticent, complacent public.  She got coverage.

I would ask Condi how the hell does she sleep at night, but i suspect she sleeps just fine.  Most evil people do.  Impeachment NOW, GWB and Cheney first so they can’t pardon the others….

Condi Rice has chosen to be a part of the corporate fascist war regime. They want to whip the world stage into ‘corporate compliance’.
Condi indeed has the blood of millions of Iraqi people on her hands. I have a hunch that she isn’t bothered by the image!
If you take the tragedy of southern Calif. fires and times it by 6 million you would have the devastation we have wrought on the Iraqi people only without all the blood. Even wildfires are more discriminating then our military forces.

Tom Lantos is a disgrace to the free speech ideals of America.

He is nothing more then a Zionist spokesman for Israel.

Can you imagine throwing those non-violent proud women out of the People’s House?

These are the Mothers and Grandmothers of the young men and women Bush has sent off to fight a war for Haliburton, The Carlyle Group and Exxon Mobil, they deserve respect.

They have every right to be angry; Condi Rice does indeed have the blood of their children on her hands.

Who can forget her fear mongering in the lead up to the Iraqi war and her certainty about their possession of WMD and the smoking gun being a puffy white Nuclear mushroom cloud over our populated American cities.

She callously and deceitfully helped Bush justify his pre ordained war.

She stood by and did nothing when Israel was bombing innocent civilians in Lebanon.

Her explanation for cluster bombing woman and children in apartment houses was, this is simply; “the birth pangs of a new Middle East”.

Imagine some people on this blog complaining that Desiree (the brave woman who confronted Rice) was making our anti war cause look bad.

When you compare the death and destruction Rice is directly responsible for and the tame response performed by Desiree in the Peoples House it is like comparing a baby making noise with a plastic rattle with holding a rattlesnake by the tail.

Rice and the Bush administration secretly gave their blessing to Israel to launch Cluster Bombs against Lebanese civilians, bombs that maim, disfigure, mutilate, blind, cripple and kill indiscriminately.

This type of war mongering behavior deserves at the very least an in your face confrontation.

Thanks again ladies in Pink, I love you all.

Okay, so it seems that withholding taxes isn’t the most effective tactic, particularly since this war is being financed on credit anyway. 

My point about Code Pink is their tactics and how damaging they can be to credibility.  We need to be smart about this, and dressing up in costumes, or dying your hair pink, or shoving your red painted hands in Condi’s face and screaming at her isn’t smart.  It’s kids stuff.  It’s theatrics.  It’s playtime.  To what end?  I mean, what is the goal of this brand of civil disobedience?  Does anyone really believe that Condi is going to have an epiphany because a crazy woman told her she had blood on her hands?  She’s gonna wake up after a long night of soul searching with Barbara Boxer values? Yeah, not likely. Was it simply for media attention? If so, it’s getting plenty of that, but not the kind that helps. Rush Limbaugh loves it.

Look, I’m just as frustrated as you “loveinatub”.  Nothing seems to work.  I’ve been to the rallies and marches here in Los Angeles.  100,000 citizens marched through downtown, carrying signs, excercing their 1st ammendment rights, demanding an end to war. It was great, I was there.  Ron Kovic spoke, and it gave me chills.  The man is incredible.  A silver star mom spoke and it was really moving and very sad.  Martin Sheen spoke, and it was, well, kinda weird. (Let Bartlet be Bartlet?)  But at the end of the day, it got shitty media coverage, they downplayed the numbers, and in 3 days time, it was off the radar.  What did we achieve?  One giant bitch session for 100,000 people who all pretty much agree on the subject to begin with?

I wish I believed that 60’s style rallies were just around the corner, and somehow the government would listen the people, but I’m just not that optimistic anymore.  I taught high school, and trust me, there will be no youth uprising. Not with Halo 4 coming soon… 

Rallies and protest alone aren’t going to do it, at least not the kind we’ve been having.  Permits are purchased, routes are mapped, streets are closed, the time is set… and everybody has a nice time.  Lovely.  Didn’t they storm the Republican National Convention in the 60’s?  Now that’s a protest. But as long as the hawks can run our boys into the ground and prop them up with mercenaries, there will be no draft, and there will be no fist-a-cuffs on the floor of any conventions.

Since it’s pretty common knowledge at this point that profit is the motive for this war, and our beloved Democracy is a thin veil for Corprotocracy with politician bought and sold by Haliburton and Co., the only way a protest is actually going to be effective is if it has an economic impact. Politician may begin to listen when their corporate overlords see their profits slipping.

But how do we achieve that?  Boycotts?  How do I boycott Blackwater or Haliburton?

Sorry, no answers, only more questions.  Sad times we live in when the power of the people just isn’t enough.

“Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is in prison.”
-Henry David Thoreau

#109588 by cyrena on 10/25 at 3:21 pm

I don’t know why I bother responding to you since your statements are always disproved.  Inactivity on the boards I’d say.

You: “Americans certainly DID NOT support it [the Iraq War] by any majority”

Reality: “USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_popular_opinion_on_invasion_of_Iraq

“if you actually LISTENED to the troops who have been there, you’d know THEY don’t support it either.”

A generalization not supported by fact.  Have you been talking to all the troops?

“We make no distinctions among the traitors to our country. They come dressed in mulitple disguises.”

Including that of “civilian”, by your logic, since public support for the war was at a majority at the time of the invasion as I’ve shown.

I think I’m done responding to you for good.

#109434 by Marshall

•  How about the American people who supported it by a majority?  The US troops that went to Iraq?  I haven’t seen any of that yet.  Oh well.

Oh well is probably the best you can come up with here Marshall, (the disinformation troll) since Americans certainly DID NOT support it by any majority. Those who DID support it, were those who had been tricked into believing that Iraq was somehow responsible for 9/11 (we knew all the time that was a lie) or that they had WMD, (we knew that was a lie as well) or that the Iraqis had asked for ‘liberatation’, (they did not, but they’ve been liberated by death anyway). So, that’s probably why you don’t hear anyone other than yourself, sprouting this shit.

And, if you actually LISTENED to the troops who have been there, you’d know THEY don’t support it either. So, this probably isn’t the forum for you to find what you’re looking for.

As for the dems who voted for the war, (in Congress) YES…they too, have been exposed for what they are, as much by groups such as Code Pink, and moveon.org as any other individual collection of us. It goes without saying, that they are the blue dog dems that are as radically republican under the blue sheep clothing as any of the ones who sit on the red blood soaked side of the aisle.

We make no distinctions among the traitors to our country. They come dressed in mulitple disguises. Condi is obviously a primary target, especially since she was there to deliver an almost verbatim threat against Iran, as she did with Iraq. The only thing different this time, was that she left out the ‘mushroom cloud’.

Still, she was there to sell the Congress on the attack on Iran, the same way she sold them a fake bill of lies on Iraq. And, we can probably count on the same group of traitors, (dems among them) to go along with it. That does NOT mean that the majority of Americans are in favor of it.

Meantime, I’ve heard and read alot about this withholding taxes as a means of civil disobedience. I think it worked for our forefathers, but I don’t see that as a way for the masses of us to accomplish anything now. How do the ‘little people’ go about doing that? Logistically speaking that is? I mean, if you work, and want to avoid paying income tax, you can of course file so that the taxes are NOT taken from you pay, (before you get it) with the understanding that you’ll simply pay what you owe when you file. And, then, you just don’t file.

So, that’s the only way I see that working, and not really for very long. The IRS - the worlds largest collection agency, will set upon you in record time. STILL, it’s worth doing.

It’s not helpful for those who have no income to begin with, and the only other option, (that I can see) is to avoid paying sales tax. Now THAT would work as well, because it would mean that we would AVOD buying anything taxable.

The last suggestion, (as loveinatub has mentioned) is to simply SHOW up ourselves, at the demonstrations that have been organized. We are the only ones who can do anything, (think Ghandi and MLK) and yes…it IS effective, and requires no violence. It’s really not even civil disobedience. It’s simply our right to assembly.

http://www.Oct27.org

That’s for saturday. The site will provide a list of cities. You all just have to show up.

Free us from the bondage of Israel, it’s not a relationship, its an Ugly bribe - all very carefully dressed up w/the fraudulent and phony energy of a Hollywood production.

Yes, I have thoughts, Stass. And disagree with you 100%  Civil disobediance is an immensely important tool in the fight against atrociy and injustice. I applaud Code Pink for their civil activism! People feel powerless today! Their representatives DON’T represent them! When is the last time there’s ever been a major tax revolt in this country on a national scale that brought the operations of UNCLE SAM to a screeching halt???? Not in my lifetime! So your suggestion is rather pointless! Code Pink is doing what MILLIONS of other Americans should be doing! And that’s actively protesting this unjustifiable “war on terror” which has caused the bloodbath in Iraq and the soon to be bloodbath in Iran!  Imagine if thousands had shown up for this hearing where Rice spoke. How many police would have been required to take these people away???? People have NO IDEA how much power they have in GREAT NUMBERS. And that is why we need a PEOPLE REVOLT on a scale not seen since the late 1960’s!

#109400 by Stass on 10/24 at 6:15 pm
(1 comments total)

Okay, I’m all for civil disobedience, and I admire their passion, but everytime I see the Code Pink people, I feel they come across as tinfoil hat nutjobs and do more harm than good.  She’s right, of course, Rice and the whole administration have blood on their hands, but bad theatrics doesn’t make for good civil disobedience, it just makes good amunition for Fox News and the pro-war right.  They paint anyone who’s against the war as nutjobs and hold up Code Pink as their example. Case closed, Bush wins.

Henry David Thoreau protested war by not paying his taxes. Now that’s a statement.  Not with my money you don’t.

Anyone?  Thoughts?

It’s truly shocking. We live in a police state. I have never come to that conclusion more so than now. People live in fear in this country. And they don’t want to come out in support of those who challenge the status-quo for fear of incarceration by the police. Bush has been so successful in creating this “war on terrorism” and climate of fear that more americans are willing to give up their right to free speech by being silent when others are willing to exercise their right to free speech but are silenced for it. George Orwell is spinning in his grave…

Stass wrote “They (Rice & the Bush administration) paint anyone who’s against the war as nutjobs and hold up Code Pink as their example. Case closed, Bush wins.”

Exactly. The Bush gang set their own policies according to their own situational ethics. Once the “decider” decides, the policies are set in stone and cannot/will not be changed for any reason. They are professional LIARS and not even very good ones at that. They lie boldfacedly because they don’t care if you know they’re lying because they know you can’t/won’t do a damn thing about it but whine.

Protest all you want. Rice, Bush, Cheney et al DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK. Unless removed from office they will continue to do what they’ve always done - make every attempt to wrest control of America and its resources from the American people and place it firmly in the hands of themselves and their friends.

I make my judgements using my simpleton’s test - “Would I buy a used car from this person?” Need I write the results of my “test” when applied to the Bush administration officials?

“..,I feel they come across as tinfoil hat nutjobs and do more harm than good.”

And then, there is Tom Lantos:

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen02152003.html

Is Code Pink pulling the same stunts on the Democrats who also voted for the war, including current candidates?  How about the American people who supported it by a majority?  The US troops that went to Iraq?  I haven’t seen any of that yet.  Oh well.

I’m actually more insulted by the hard core pro-war anti-free speech rights of the little hawkster fuhrer Chairman Mr. Lantos, for throwing out one of the pink ladies for quietly holding up her fingers in a peace sign.  He also threw out another quiet protester who held up a peace sign that said ‘LIAR’.  Both activists did that as a result of a particular line of b.s. from Rice.

Steny Hoyer, Joe Lieberman and Tom Lantos:
Meet the Democratic partys’ new da-das’.

Now, you can get ready to use that duct tape.

Okay, I’m all for civil disobedience, and I admire their passion, but everytime I see the Code Pink people, I feel they come across as tinfoil hat nutjobs and do more harm than good.  She’s right, of course, Rice and the whole administration have blood on their hands, but bad theatrics doesn’t make for good civil disobedience, it just makes good amunition for Fox News and the pro-war right.  They paint anyone who’s against the war as nutjobs and hold up Code Pink as their example. Case closed, Bush wins.

Henry David Thoreau protested war by not paying his taxes. Now that’s a statement.  Not with my money you don’t.

Anyone?  Thoughts?

“We are very concerned that the policies of Iran constitute perhaps the single greatest challenge to American security interests in the Middle East and around the world,” Rice said.

Almost verbatim from the runup to Iraq. The only thing she left out was the ‘mushroom cloud’.

All the rest is the same…the single greatest challenge. So, Iran’s next, been on the burner for years now, and there’s probably already an ‘attack date’, just as there was with Iraq. All of this ‘testimony’ is just deja vu from before.

That’s what makes the whole irony of the protesstor that much more surreal. She’s protesting against the blood bath that Condi has already helped to engineer, while Condi is going through the motions to tell Congress that they have to do the same thing now to Iran.