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Ron Paul on Dems, Immigration, 9/11 Conspiracies

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Posted on Oct 4, 2007
Ron Paul
AP Photo/Cheryl Sender

And now, some news from the right side of the aisle:  Presidential hopeful Ron Paul chatted with conservative talk show host Steve Gill about his recent fundraising success, domestic and foreign policy issues, and 9/11 and its aftermath, blasting the neocons for using the Sept. 11 attacks to advance their agenda: “If the mafia attacks someone in this country, we don’t bomb Italy,” Paul said.  True enough.

Follow this link to hear the interview.

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By Filipe Brás Almeida, October 7, 2007 at 3:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

«#105266 by samuidave on 10/06 at 7:48 pm
(1 comments total)

Although Felipe Brás Almeida and cyrena both think people should “see through [Ron Paul’s] shallow, fallacious, paranoiac and altogether atrocious economic policies”, neither offer an informed opinion on why his policies are simply wrong.

Or is this just another case of “it’s wrong because I believe it to be wrong”?»

Had I the time and where this the proper venue, I could easily go into a long prose about why I think ending social security, public education, health care, central banking and other basic elements of the modern liberal democratic state (every single one of it’s kind, actually) and reducing it to a corporate police state would quickly throw us into an age of dehumanizing neo-feudalism.

I’m as big and enthusiastic a supporter of free markets, mixed economies and labour mobility as much as the next guy, but I maintain that Libertarianism’s (what Ron Paul espouses) particular strain of economic views is undermined by a myopic understanding of it’s own moral failings.

There are historic precedents that explain why democracies came up with social policy in the first place (e.g. Industrial revolution et. al.). Those reasons, in my opinion, remain solid, and continue to invalidate the social-darwinist and aristocratic views of Ron Paul and of the anarco-capitalist libertarian ilk.

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By Outraged, October 6, 2007 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

RE: #105266 by samuidave on 10/06

“I, like Ron Paul apparently, believe that basic, rudimentary economic theories and principles will prevail. 

Add up the debt.  Add up the assets. Do the math.  The USA is, but for the creditors calling in their markers, legally bankrupt.

Couple this with the abysmal US foreign image, its bullying tactics on hundreds of fronts, and the strengthening of other nations that do not share the US world view.  Do you think the entire world is, in perpetuity, going to idly watch the USA shirk its fiscal obligations, feed itself into obesity and excess on every front, and continue to demand that its creditors follow its rule? “

Samuidave:

I agree with Cyrena and Non-Credo.  Some of Ron Paul’s agenda are just bizarre.  To me Ron and GW are in the same “enlightened” basket.

You called Ron’s economic theories “rudimentary”.  Boy, I’ll say.  Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Social Security System, the Educational System, the IRS and oh damn, I forget the last one.  Anyway, what is he THINKING!  This doesn’t seem just a little bizarre to you?!  NO EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM….c’mon that’s nuts!  He didn’t say change it, improve it or reinvent it, HE SAID ELIMINATE IT! WTF?!  I would like to know his big plan for the fallout.

Aside from that there are other candidates who endorse redeployment from Iraq, they’re just not republican.  There are also other candidates who do not endorse this “long arm of the law” tactics in dealing with other nations, they too, are not republican.  Ron Paul’s ideology will not strengthen this country but will bring it to its knees, much like what GW is doing.

Ron Paul also CLAIMS he KNOWS as an obstetrician that life begins at conception.  Doesn’t seem to matter much to Mr. Paul that not even the most renowned scientists in the field can’t SAY when LIFE actually begins.  Because as of yet, they DON’T KNOW, that is a fact. Ron Paul KNOWS his claim is a lie.

You seem to feel that it would be impossible to balance the budget or get this country back in the black.  During Clinton’s presidency this country was in the black.  Admittedly, we were still in debt, but had we continued we would’ve at least put a dent in our debt.

It seems Ron Paul attracts those who are Republicans and are in denial about what their party has done and continues to do.  There is very little difference between Ron Paul and GW when look at the basics.  They are both nuts with a radical agenda spewing family values and fiscal responsibility.

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By cyrena, October 6, 2007 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

#105266 by samuidave

....“Or is this just another case of “it’s wrong because I believe it to be wrong”?”

Nope samuidave,

Not at all. I didn’t even say “it’s wrong”. Matter of fact, I didn’t address Pauls economic policy at all. If you had read my entire message, you may have even noticed, or at least given the benefit of the doubt, when I explained that I couldn’t listen to the entire interview that this PARTICUALR piece/thread references. (I tried, but I couldn’t get past all of the initial talk of his campaign and the monies it had collected, and still needed).

I said as much in the email, and so I wasn’t addressing his economic policies, which may in fact be in line with my own. Who knows?

I won’t know, unless by some horrible occurance, he actually winds up on a ticket. THEN, I would certainly look more carefully at whatever he suggests to be his economic policies, since I DO hold a general agreement with YOURS, based on what you said here.

So, my dismissal of Ron Paul obviously isn’t about his economic policies, if I don’t know what they are. There are other things that make him a very dangerous person to have in the Presidency, the same stuff that has caused us to go from a secular democracy to an ideological Theocracy ruled by the Bible, rather than the Constitution.

That’s why his economic policies don’t matter. There are too many other candidates with equally strong economic and fiscal policies, without all of the religious ideology attached.

Hope that clears it up. The guy is bad news.

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By samuidave, October 6, 2007 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

Although Felipe Brás Almeida and cyrena both think people should “see through [Ron Paul’s] shallow, fallacious, paranoiac and altogether atrocious economic policies”, neither offer an informed opinion on why his policies are simply wrong. 

Or is this just another case of “it’s wrong because I believe it to be wrong”?

I, like Ron Paul apparently, believe that basic, rudimentary economic theories and principles will prevail. 

Add up the debt.  Add up the assets. Do the math.  The USA is, but for the creditors calling in their markers, legally bankrupt.

Couple this with the abysmal US foreign image, its bullying tactics on hundreds of fronts, and the strengthening of other nations that do not share the US world view.  Do you think the entire world is, in perpetuity, going to idly watch the USA shirk its fiscal obligations, feed itself into obesity and excess on every front, and continue to demand that its creditors follow its rule?

How dare he ask for anything when we, the USA, owe him so much?!!

Good luck.

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By cyrena, October 6, 2007 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

#104975 by Filipe Brás Almeida on 10/05 at 12:12 pm

•  Democrats, moderates and other rational people shouldn’t allow themselves to get caught up in his populist self-deprecating anti-war views, but rather see through his shallow, fallacious, paranoiac and altogether atrocious economic policies. He’s a John Birch Society nut-job fit for nothing but scorn and derision.

Filipe:
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Ron Paul is an ideological nut-job. He’s as scary as all of the other John Birchers. He’s also running as a republican from TEXAS!! Why is that not a HUGE red flag, to anyone who hasn’t been in a cave the past 7 years?

And then there’s Non Credo’s point.

•  #105021 by Non Credo
Why isn’t Mike Gravel getting the covergae that Paul gets? He’s just as courageously anti-war, and he’s not afraid to point to the Israel lobby.

Why indeed? Not only is Gravel anti-war, and willing to point to the Israel lobby, he also isn’t trying to inject “Christianity” into the law or the Constitution. Do we really need another religious fanatic, (real or faked like GW) in the WH, just because he’s anti-war? I don’t think so. Just like as much as I’d like to see a woman or a person of color in the office, Hilary just won’t do, and Obama has apparently been co-opted by the Corporate machine as well.

Meantime, can anybody give me a brief rundown on what Paul has to say about the 9-11 conspiracies? I couldn’t get that far in the interview, because the first few or more minutes of it, are only “campaign” coverage and a request for funding. That’s all they talk about at the beginning of the thing, and it was very boring. I tried “fast forwarding” to get to that part, but never found it. I’m just curious, not because I think he would be elected, because he’s an idiot, but just because I’d like to know his “take” on that, as it was advertised in the title heading, about immigration, etc.

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By PatrickHenry, October 6, 2007 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

Better register as Republicans soon to get in the primaries and vote for Paul, if he is to get a chance and some much needed press.

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By Verne Arnold, October 6, 2007 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

How sad…neither Paul or Kucinich or Gravel, (what an awesome team, any combo) have a chance against the machine.  So, we’re stuck with the herd mentality…what a shame.

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By Paolo, October 5, 2007 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

It’s truly amazing how most Americans buy into the lies they are taught in school about how America’s Founders envisioned a “two-party system.”

The phrase “two-party system” appears nowhere in any of the writings of the Founders.

The Founders were against the concept of having any political parties whatsoever! They called this “factionalism.”

We now have a system in which the government itself self-perpetuates the “two-party system,” in league with corporate media who contribute handsomely to both parties.

Ron Paul has a chance, based on an unexpected new force: the internet. Corporate media can no longer totally “freeze out” candidates who have authentically new, fresh ideas.

He may not win this time around, but there is hope that others like him will be able to break the stranglehold the “two party system” has on our government.

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By samuidave, October 5, 2007 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ron Paul relies on sound principles but his (or anyones for that matter) ignorant religious bent is still scary.  Given the choices available, however, no other potential candidate can touch this guy. 

But Americans won’t vote him in because the propaganda machine there has infected almost everyone down to the core.  The American Empire is starting to crumble!  (If you don’t think it has been an Empire, some village is missing its idiot.)

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By Margaret Currey, October 5, 2007 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republician Party at one time thought they had this country sewed up with the guy from Temas Tom Delay as the hammer, now all we hear are scandals upon scandals, and when a country is deep in secrets then we as a country are not a democracy, now when the tax breaks go to the top 10% and we hear the old mantra tricle down is going to be great.

People watch as Berma as a police state wants to kill the decenters, the same thing is happening in this country, of course Bush/Chaney have not been a military presence yet, but if the rich get richer and the poor get poorer this country will lose Democracy.

I for one would love to see a third party but both sides are fighting against this but the time will come when it will be necessary and I hope it happens before the Constitution is totally ripped up.

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By Filipe Brás Almeida, October 5, 2007 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Democrats, moderates and other rational people shouldn’t allow themselves to get caught up in his populist self-deprecating anti-war views, but rather see through his shallow, fallacious, paranoiac and altogether atrocious economic policies. He’s a John Birch Society nut-job fit for nothing but scorn and derision.

Don’t delude yourselves… The reason he’ll never get elected is not because he «speaks that truth», but because he’s an idiot.

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By weather, October 5, 2007 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

Ron Paul, “Stop making sense”.

America has a far more robust appetite for being lied to, that’s why we watch CNN and read the NY Times, they’re masters of developing a plausible reality.

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By 911TruthNow!, October 5, 2007 at 7:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Blah… why do 9/11 truth activists even bother supporting this xenophobe? Boggles the mind that his internet spammers have done such a good job marketing this dinosaur.

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By Ranta, October 4, 2007 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

It’s nice to hear someone, right or left, say that Israel can stand on its own two feet. Sure, we help them if they need us but let’s not base much of our foreign policy on what they want.
Maybe they would actually do something about the Palestinian situation if they didn’t think they had to look so macho for us.
In fact, Paul or an antiwar Democrat might make encourage the Israelis to renounce the version of the neocons that run their country.

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By vet240, October 4, 2007 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

I, probably like a lot of Americans, have always been nervous when listening to persons who refer to themselves as Libertarians.

I suppose it’s because we always wanted to believe the two party system made sense. It did as long as both parties had honest intentions and had open honest debates about their different philosophies.

Anymore, I only hear two persons talking out of both sides of their mouths garnering votes while only being truely concerned about the welfare of thier big corporate contributors.

I think It’s time for a Thrid Party candidate.

To Ron Paul I pledge the following. If New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, with his large amount of political experience both on the local level and on the national and international level with his position to get out of Iraq immediately, doesn’t get the Democratic nomination I will vote for Ron Paul as a third party candidate.

With one caveat, I want the next President to act to legislatively outlaw “signing statements”. The Constitution clearly mandates that the President will enforce legilation passed by the legislature.

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By 911truthdotorg, October 4, 2007 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

I will take Ron Paul ANY day over any of those other rescumlican monsters who are running! Especially that schmuck, giulianni.

My first choice is Kucinich, Ron Paul is next.

I have a strong gut feeling that both of them know that 9/11 was an inside job, but just can’t say it without being labeled as a nutcase.

God help us if anyone else makes it in.

We’ll be in perpetual war.

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By Marc Louis Hébert, October 4, 2007 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I love listening to Ron Paul.  Good old fashioned decency.

Marc Louis Hébert

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By Kahoneez, October 4, 2007 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In my opinion his message and what he has to say , is the most important thing . He’ll never get elected , because the den of vipers , who profit from wars and occupation will never let him take the republican nomination . That is why we need a third party , and frankly we need several parties, as in Scandinavian countries . It’s also appalling that CNN only can recognize Ron Paul when he raises 5 million bucks , showing they don’t want his message on tv, so people hear words such as OCCUPATION , Foreign policy, and resistance all linked together .
I don’t agree with his social issues , but even if he were elected he couldn’t get everything passed, so That isn’t a major issue, the militarization of the United States and the destruction of the Constitution are issues that are only talked about by Paul and Kucinich . The best we can hope for is to demand that the media recognize these important individuals and what they have to say.

Instead , they are treated like the Japanese proverb, the nail that stands up , must be pounded back down .

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By Paolo, October 4, 2007 at 6:00 pm Link to this comment

As a libertarian, I’ve tried to build a bridge of understanding between libertarians and the left. I think we have common ground in the area of non-interventionist foreign policy. The left, like libertarians, understands that war is almost never the right answer.

Interestingly, I think the left has long been more fiscally responsible than Republicans, and certainly way more responsible than neocons. Observe that Clinton achieved balanced budgets, while neocon Bush has run up unbelievable deficits, with his own party in control of both houses of Congress! Clearly, when Republicans talk about fiscal responsibility, they are just deluding the more gullible of their followers.

I know libertarians and the left disagree about using the iron hand of the government for social welfare projects, but perhaps we can build a bridge of understanding there, too.

I hope the left can support Ron Paul as against any of the other warmongering Republican candidates.

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