Today is the day that CHIP (the Children’s Health Insurance Program) expires.  This program is government run health care for both poor children and children whose parents make too much money to qualify for Medicaid, but not enough money to pay the exhorbitantly high private, profiteering health insurance premiums that insurance companies charge (family of four - about $1200 a month.)

The charge below, “...government health care. So why are the dems pushing it. Because the dems don’t give a rats ass about health care for Americans they just want to take control of American money and lives likes the dictators they are” is very odd considering the that it is our Republican President who has stated he will veto the extension of the CHIP program - an extension that the Democratically controlled Senate overwhelmingly passed, with even 18 Republican Senators voting for it.

In some States, a family of four can make as much as $61,000 and qualify for CHIP.  They can not afford health insurance otherwise, due to the price gouging, profit motivated, outrageously high premiums that insurance companies charge.

And on top of that, there are the out of pocket fees for doctors, hospitals, prescriptions that are higher than they are anywhere else in the Western world with other countries’ national health care systems. 

“Dems don’t give a rats ass about health care for Americans” it is charged, below.  That is a false statement.  Beause the Democrats care about health care for Americans, they have not only approved an extension of CHIP and have begged the Republican President to not veto it (though Bush says he will veto it), they have approved funding for this vital health program through November, so that millions of American children do not lose their government funded health care insurance today.

Please see this link for details:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.democra ts29sep29,0,1093633.story

A small excerpt:  “Graeme and his 9-year-old sister, Gemma, were passengers in the family SUV in December 2004 when it hit a patch of black ice and slammed into a tree. Both were taken to a hospital with severe brain trauma. Graeme was in a coma for a week and still requires physical therapy.

Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.

Having priced private insurance that would cost more than their mortgage - about $1,200 a month - they continue to rely on the government program. In Maryland, families that earn less than 300 percent of the federal poverty level - about $60,000 for a family of four - are eligible.”

“Graeme, a seventh-grader at the Park School, has a message for the president.

‘If I could speak to him, I would say, “You have to sign this bill,” he told reporters yesterday during his first visit to the Capitol. ‘I’m guessing he wants this money for Iraq. Our future isn’t in Iraq. It’s here.’”

That is a good article indeed.  Thank you for sharing it.

For data comparison of America’s health care with other Western countries, please see:

http://www.oecd.org/document/30/0,3343,en_2825_495642_ 12968734_1_1_1_1,00.html

“The most comprehensive source of comparable statistics on health and health systems across OECD countries. It is an essential tool for health researchers and policy advisors in governments, the private sector and the academic community, to carry out comparative analyses and draw lessons from international comparisons of diverse health care systems.”

Specific highlights for each country, including America, are found here:

http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_2825_495642_ 34971438_1_1_1_1,00.html

I think the democratic candidates are choosing the idea of everyone buying private insurance because it is the most palatable for voters to choose in reform of the system.  However there is a status quo in the economics of living in this country that will adjust the employer cost of employee insurance by increasing work loads, differing raises, or causing reductions in wages.  I think a national sales tax including a socialist form of cost containment would be better.  It’s not like anyone really shops around, especially when in a fragile state.  Recently, California passed a law requiring a smaller number of patients per nurse because of instances of patients in hospital rooms largely unattended.  Just one instance that speaks of a recurrent problem, costs.

I read a good article about how the U.S. ranks with other countries for care.  “We spend far more, but our health care is falling behind Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, U.K. spend less and do better job, studies say.” found at this link:  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/ 07/10/MNGNUQTQJB1.DTL&hw=health+care+world&sn=007&a mp;sc=185

to

#103352 by ec kostrubala on 9/28 at 8:22 pm

The VA is a perfect example of government run health care and its not a good as the private system.

If government health care is so good why do Canadian doctors come to the USA for heir own medical treatment. Could it be that its because the USA system is better.

Face it you will not be able to convince the America people who have private insurance that they would be better of with government health care.

So why are the dems pushing it. Because the dems don’t give a rats ass about health care for Americans they just want to take control of American money and lives likes the dictators they are.

America does not have the best health care in the world.  Our abysmal ranking on markers of health care, in comparison with other countries, prove that, as previously detailed. 

The percentage of our fellow Western world’s citizens coming here for health care is miniscule.  A more commonly heard of practice is that of Americans going overseas to get health care.  Some of these Americans have private insurance.  Their insurance companies send them overseas for treatment, to save costs.  Profit - the bottom line for the private insurance health care industry. 

It is a waste of time to go see a VA hospital because that is not an example of a universal, publicly funded health care system since all Americans are not covered by the VA, all Americans do not pay into the VA, all doctors and medical support staff do not work for the VA, all hospitals throughout our country do not belong to the VA. 

The private marketplace, profiteering health care system we currently have in America forces the much smaller public health care system to be the b*stard step-child of service delivery, since those in it to make money gravitate toward the private sector.

But as previously explained, when all health care is universal and publicly funded, an attitude shift occurs.  Unlike American doctors who refuse to treat sick Americans insured by Medicare or Medicaid, because their greed for money outweighs their desire to treat sick and injured in need, there is no expectation of wealth or privelege among UK physicians, for instance, nor ability or desire to refuse to treat sick people.  In a publicly funded health care system, people go into medicine for the right reasons - to treat the sick, to research and cure diseases.  Public healthcare is THE healthcare.  With all citizens funding one system, all hospitals, doctors and medical personnel employed through the same health care system, Americans will not have a two tier system where those working in it can neglect one for another to make millions of dollars.

Question why do people from other countries come to
USA for medical care. Because the provides the best health care in the world. As one of the many Americas with private insurance I do not want the dems to screw up my health care. I know the quality of government health care first hand as an employee of VA medical system. I have a challenge to all who support government run health care. Go visit your local VA hospital and visit the near by private hospital. No surprise the private hospital is better.

Louise, I like your common sense solution on health care. Australia used to provide publicly funded university education to all who qualified for it.  Only recently has that stopped.  But the tuition for a university education in Australia is still far more affordable than it is in the USA. (And Australia’s medical care is publicly funded too of course.)

Just one little thing - none of this is free.  Just as our public libraries are not free, nor our interstate highways, etc etc.  They seem free to we who use them.  But we pay for them through taxes in one form or another. Have for many years.  Just as we pay for our fire departments, police departments, border patrol, military, space exploration - so many of the things we Americans take for granted, we fund through a tax or levy of some kind.

I hope the Democrats do not think whatever they’ve proposed on health care reform is set in stone.  The primaries haven’t yet begun.  There’s time to sound things out and change it.  At least, that’s my hope. 

When everyone is insured through a national, publicly funded health care system, this means everyone pays some kind of tax for it (just as we all pay taxes to fund libraries, law enforcement, military, fire department, roads, highways, courts, jails, prisons, etc, whether we use them or not.)

We know how to make publicly funded systems work well.  There is nothing we Americans can not do when we set our minds to it.  Just as we are the superpower of the world with our government run defense system, we can be the Number 1 health care system in the world if we embark on a publicly funded, national health care system!

Yet again, an anonymous person makes claims with no basis in fact. 

To repeat:  Why should Americans continue to support private insurance?  You get what you pay for.  What has our money gotten us?

America ranks less in infant mortality, longevity, and disease prevention, to name just some health care markers, than any other Western country. Yet America alone spends more of our Gross National Product on medical care than other countries do. Countries which not only outdo us in medical care of their citizens, but do so with government run systems to boot.

The charge that medical technology is 20 years behind the times in the UK is absurb and laughable.  Some of the most advanced medical research is done in the UK.  The greatest minds from all over the world work in the NHS medical laboratories and hospitals.  I know this personally.  Pick up and read the medical journals out of the UK to enlighten yourself on the subject of what the NHS accomplishes with their publicly funded system of medical care and disease prevention.

The private profiteering marketplace of our American private insurer health care system does not give Americans the value for dollar that all other Western country’s publicly funded, universal health care systems give to their citizens.  If we got what we paid for, then we would out rank the rest of them on all markers of health care, since we spend more money than the rest of them do.

We do not.

A little help for the candidates:

The war in Iraq:
Stop calling it a failure, the product of bad management, and a political issue! The war in Iraq is, was and always will be ILLEGAL! Now how do we go back and un-break the law we broke? We cant, but we can STOP right now!

Bring our troops out. What happens happens. After the dust settles we can figure out a way, with the co-operation of the UN and the neighboring countries how to pay the Iraqi people back for the damage we have done. We can not replace the lives lost, so they will hate us until several generations have passed. But leaving now is the first step to the healing process.

Silence the voices that say we have to stay, by educating them. Leaving will not send the country into violence and chaos. Our presence has already done that! Our continued presence will only make it worse!

The Iran issue:
This is a non-issue. Iran does not have “nukes” any more than Iraq did! Iran may very well be our best hope of rebuilding some sort of sanity into the insanity we brought to that region. Iran does not want another war with Iraq. Iran does not want another war with anyone. Working with the UN, Russia, China and Iraq’s other neighbors, Iran can probably help what’s left of Iraq rebuild and stabilize.

Silence the voices that say we cant let that happen by reminding them WE are the interlopers. WE are the strangers in that part of the world. WE are the ones who traveled half the world to stick our nose in their business. WE destroyed Iraq! Now WE must learn a hard lesson. How to butt out and let those who truly know and understand the region take over. In short, it’s time the conceit of America got a lesson in humility!

Social Security:
Stop stealing the money!
Let the reserves rebuild and keep those blinking politicians hands out of that piggy bank!

Silence the voices that say the system is broke and we need to privatize it by pointing out, it is the only saving program in the ENTIRE history of our nation that has worked. While at the same time we have seen Banks fail. Investment firms fail. Retirement accounts fail. Mortgage companies fail. Saving and Loan companies fail. Credit accounts fail, the Stock Market fail, and a multitude of other “private” money industries fail on a predictable ten year cycle!

Health care:
Turn the medical industry back over to the medical practitioners and get “private” Insurance corporations and drug manufacturers OUT of the medical schools and OUT of the hospitals and OUT of the doctors private office! Provide full medical school and nursing training for all those who are qualified, free! With the condition that they go into areas where health care is most badly needed and commit to a ten year contract.

Silence the critics by pointing out, no one knows medicine and the needs of a patient MORE than the doctors and nurses who treat them. They should be running things! And no-one knows better than the doctors and nurses how expensive their degree is. And no-one knows better the need to inflate costs to recapture that huge expenditure! And that can ALL be brought under control by removing those who DO NOT practice medicine from the equation!

So how’s that for some common sense solutions?
Of course none of that is possible, because the ONE factor missing from our politicos, media and chicken hawks is ...
COMMON SENSE!

One other thought. If we pulled out of Iraq, how much OIL would our war machine stop consuming?

Maybe that’s the real answer, as horrible as it is. Maybe we just need to keep fighting and dieing and building bigger and better gas guzzling war stuff.
Until the day we hear ...

The war is over because everybody ran out of gas!

In responce to
#103288 by ec kostrubala on 9/28 at 12:51 pm

You did not answer my question about the quality of care. I to have family who worked in England.
They tell me yes health care is free in England BUT
the quality of care is lower that America. In fact I hear the English health care is about 20 years behind America in terms of technology. Face it you get what you pay for .

NASA landed on the MOON in 69 in a lander built by Grumman.

As for law enforcement why do persons with means usually hire private security ? because they get better protection with private security

Spoken like a profiteering private health insurance apologist, written anonymously (’driving bear’) and erroneously.

NASA, formed in 1958, gets its funding from Congress. This government run system put the first human being on the moon in 1969.  We got what we paid for.  Most fire departments are publicly funded.  Rural ones are often volunteer run, funded by grants.

The horror stories I hear about health care do not come from overseas, but from America. I know of them from my in-laws, my friends, and Micheal Moore’s Sicko movie, which was mostly about people with insurance not getting treated for their medical problems.

For several years my late husband and I lived and worked in London. Our medical care came from the publicy funded health care system of the United Kingdom, for which we paid taxes out of our salaries. 

We never paid any money out of pocket for doctor’s visits.  Nor money out of pocket for immunizations. Nor for vaccinations.

And when my husband sustained an injury requiring ambulance service, ICU care, and extensive hospitalization, we never received any medical bill whatsoever.

A 30 day prescription cost about 9 dollars.

Why should Americans continue to support private insurance?  You get what you pay for.  What has our money gotten us?

America ranks less in infant mortality, longevity, and disease prevention, to name just some health care markers, than any other Western country. Yet America alone spends more of our Gross National Product on medical care than any other Western country. Countries which not only outdo us in medically care, but do so with government run systems to boot.

Points to consider with a publicly funded national health care system, such as what my husband and I experienced when we lived in the UK:

besides no out of pocket expense, the unemployed receive the same health care benefits as we who are employed;

for several years, sure, those taxes out of our salaries seem like a waste of hard earned money because we are never sick, do not take any medicines, do not need to see a doctor except for travel vaccines, but when we need medical care, such as my husband’s sudden injury which would have bankrupted us had it occurred here in the USA, we were very glad to have the NHS TRUST covering our medical needs - the taxes we paid out of our salaries did not come one iota close to the cost of his acute medical care;

health care coverage is cradle to grave, with many health benefits unheard of in the USA, such as home visits to new mothers and babies by health care professionals, extensive parental leave, to name just two;

we had choice in our doctors, choosing our GPs (general practioners), and I was very pleased with whom we chose;

when we needed to see our GPs, at first only for travel vaccinations and for my husband after his injury some years later, the wait from phone call to appointment was never more than two days, often not more than one day;

the attitude of doctors differs significantly there from the attitude of American doctors with regard to making a profit from providing medical care to sick people. Because my husband worked in a hospital at a medical school, a number of our friends were physicians and we got to know them from all aspects. There is no expectation of wealth and privelege among UK physicians for treating sick people. There is also no ability to refuse to treat sick people, nor desire to refuse to treat sick people, as is the case with American MDs who refuse to treat sick Americans insured by Medicare or Medicaid because their greed for money and profit outweighs their desire to treat the sick and injured in need;

people go into the medical field to become physicians, under a publicly funded health care system, for the right reasons - to treat the sick, to research and cure diseases. Not to make loads of money, nor have status, as is the case in our American style private market place, profit motivated, greed based health care delivery system.

The problem with any health care plan is not convincing the 47 million uninsured to support the plan , but convincing the other 253 million Americans who now have health coverage that the quality of their health care services would stay the same or improve. Most Americans know the truth of the saying you get what you pay for. Most Americans who have insurance through work feel the quality of their health care would suffer under any government run system.

Americans have heard too many horror stories about Europe’s and Canada’s systems

As for the reference to NASA programs read more history , the equipment was built by defense contractors and NASA signed the checks.

As for highways just look to the recent MN bridge collapse.

As for fire and police , how come so many companies have private security and some have a private fire department. Face it private industry usually provides better services that government.

I like Dennis Kucinich in the debates.  I will vote for Hillary Clinton.  I am disappointed in her health care plan, however.  I don’t know what happened in the early 90s, I lived overseas. I don’t get the ‘socialized’ slur nor the antipathy toward ‘government run’ healthcare, either.  The Democrats seem to think those charges will matter.  I think Americans are smarter than that.  We are the people who built and maintain the most powerful fighting force on earth.  We are the people who sent the first human beings to the moon.  Landed machines on Mars.  Sent Voyager beyond our solar system.  To do that takes brains, guts, perseverance and vision.  Qualities Americans possess in abundance.  And we achieved these deeds with publicly funded systems: the Department of Defense; NASA.

Democrats should explain that a publicly funded, national health care system (NHS) would not be any more ‘socialized’ than our already publicly funded libraries, national defense, border patrol, space exploration, fire departments, court systems, law enforcement agencies, interstate highway system, prison systems, etc. 

What Americans want are facts explained plainly:  how will a NHS work for an individual when one goes to the doctor, the hospital, the pharmacy?  Concrete, to the point, bottom line on cost explanations – that’s what Americans want to know.  I explained how it worked for us when we lived in the UK, in other posts. 

Democrats should explain that a NHS would be similar to the publicly funded fire department.  If your house, business or car is on fire, do you call your insurance company to see which fire department you can contact to come put out your fire, and then pay a co-payment at the scene of the fire?  If you have no fire fighting insurance are you left in the cold to watch your home, business or car burn to the ground?  Of course not.  That’s not the American way.  Nor would it be the American way with a NHS for your health, your spouse’s health, your baby’s health.

Democrats can ask just what private, profit motivated insurance companies reimbursed the New York City firemen who bravely went into the burning Twin Towers on Sept 11, 2001?  And what were the insurance premiums, and individual co-payments, that New Yorkers had to pay for the assistance they received from the firemen that day?  The delay in payments and paperwork for the NYC firemen to be paid for their services rendered must have been awful.  And for all those New Yorkers - on top of their suffering, they had to call their insurance companies and go through so much bureaucratic red tape to be covered for the assistance the firemen who were not in their plans provided to them.  The bureaucracy must have been a nightmare, sorting all that out with those private insurers. 

Wait. That did not happen. And that did not happen because the New York City fire department is a publicly funded system of disaster response.  New Yorkers had no co-payments to pay on the scene, no bills arriving in their mail for services rendered to them from fire departments, no hassling with any insurance company to cover the cost of services by firemen who responded that were not on their company’s preferred provider list.

Same for the services rendered to every New Yorker needing assistance by the New York City Police Department.  Another publicly funded system.

The same can not be said for New Yorkers needing medical care that day.

We Americans know how to make publicy funded systems work.  We could not be the world’s most powerful fighting force, nor the world’s most successful scientists and explorers of the Final Frontier, if we did not.  We would not have the brave and capable response of both the publicly funded New York City Fire Departments and Police Departments on Sept 11, 2001 if we did not. I believe the same can be true for a NHS, and that Americans would support it so long as the Democrats explain it plainly.