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No Debate on Gays in the Military

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Posted on Jun 8, 2007
GOP debate

Whatever happened to that Republican spirit of individual liberty? During the recent GOP debate, none of the candidates came out against the military’s “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on homosexuals. According to John McCain, “the policy is working,” despite frequent reports that the “don’t ask” requirement is often ignored.

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By Ron, June 16, 2007 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

Hey Billy,

I hear you, man. Do your thing. I made my last comment to truthbear, and there is nothing I have left to say. All I can do is help impart information. I don’t know if I’m going to blog anymore on this site, because like you, I’ve got serious work to do.

Whether I do or not, drop me a line on my blogsite, or email me so we can keep in touch. Take care of yourself, and keep up the good work.

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By Ron, June 16, 2007 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

Truthbear,

First of all, I know that you did not mean those things you said to me, that you were simply reacting to my message to Billy. According to your religion, what you said to me is not Christian.

Secondly, I appreciate the fact that you believe in God. So do I. I am not a Christian, because I believe that God transcends all religions, and that God is about love and acceptance, which is what we should all be about.

So it is very disturbing to me when people condemn homosexuals and talk about judgment and such things.  We need to love and accept everyone for who they are. Their path is their path. Whatever will happen to them is between them and God. Our only job on this planet is to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and to do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

So at the end of the day, while you are quoting scripture and talking about the last days of judgment, did you do all you could to help humanity? This is a question that I and everyone else need to consistently ask ourselves, and if we’re not, we need to work on it.

Whatever happens in the future is not our concern. The present moment is our focus. And we always must examine the beam in our eye, before we point to the splinter in someone else’s.

This is the last comment I will make on this topic. I have a lot of work to do, as a teacher, artist and activist. I have to be about the business of loving, caring and nurturing people. I hope you are doing the same. If so, God bless you.

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By truthbear, June 16, 2007 at 1:19 am Link to this comment

Ron;

Your an igmo (A cross between ignoramus and a moron)...

You think I am looking for power? Over what? You?

What a laugh!

No, my God’s doing a fine job, He has all the power and someday soon you will see…Thanks for the compliment…

btd;

Again, you have shown me how smart you are…I was really beginning to like you too…You can make fun all you want to cause it really doesn’t matter…

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By Ron, June 14, 2007 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

Hey Billy,

I understand how you feel, but you need to ignore truthbear. Just like the KKK, they thrive on any attention they can get. As long as we feed it to them, they will continue their rants. We need to direct our energy to those who are worth it.

People like truthbear have no power. They only gain power when we give it to them. I have dealt with them for years as an activist. They bring absolutely nothing to the table. Think about it. He comprehended nothing from what I commented. I would have gotten more from a brick wall. Trust me, you are too valuable to throw your pearls to swine. Just leave him to his own devices.

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By truthbear, June 13, 2007 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

Ron; btd; mmc;

Again your confused between hate and truth…The society in this nation began to deteriorate back in 1963, when God was taken out of the classroom…Today, there is no morals, it’s everything goes…

God will not force you to serve him, God will not force you to love him…God doesn’t want robots to serve him, he wants His children to come to him with a willing heart…However, man is bent on serving the beast instead of the Creator…By doing this, is why our country and why the world is on the road unto destruction today…

Oh, you can blame it on religion and you would be partly right about that…Religion today has become lost and confused because there are to many bible scholars trying to interpret the word of God, and therefore, have polluted the real meaning of the gospel of Christ…Most people today don’t have time or they just don’t care about God…

The real smoke screen is the world, which is the devils playground…The devil will use whatever means necessary to keep God’s children confused so that they don’t know what to believe anymore…Now, they want to take God out of our federal buildings, they want to take God from off our currency, the next thing will be, that it will be illegal to gather together in our churches…

Another real enemy in this country and throughout the world is the Muslim religion, it is just a matter of time before they become strong enough in our country to take over and then we will be living under muslim law…The devil is smart though, he makes sure that there is enough confusion going on to keep God’s children occupied so that they cannot see the whole picture…

So, go ahead, mock and make fun, remember, someone tried to tell you, but I forgot that you know it all…In the end, it will be God’s way and in God’s own time…Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that, Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father….

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By Ron, June 13, 2007 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

Good evening everyone,

I hope I can assist this dialogue with a few points.

First, in regards to the military, we are in a crisis. President Dwight Eisenhower before he left office warned this nation of the consequences of a military industrial complex.

Gravely, this is where we are. We are spending billions of dollars policing the world and illegally occupying sovereign nations. The results are an increased world instability, and the draining of the nation’s resources, to name only a couple.

And in the last fifty years, the military has increasingly become the extension of corporate greed and power. So, we prosecute illegal wars and attack countries that never attacked us.

So when we look at the military, we need to ask ourselves, why would anyone want to join such an organization? Aside from patriotism, it is poverty and the promise of opportunity.

The average soldier comes from a poor or working class background. Tragically, they will return from duty with problems such as PTSD, flashbacks, depression, drug or alcohol addiction, and unable to perform the skills from which they were trained.

In 2007, this is the human condition in which every American in uniform is faced. This is unconscionable.

Second, we have to understand the issue of gays in the military is one of those election year ploys. It is pulled out every presidential election, especially by republicans who attempt to attract voters via the moral compass.

It is disingenuous, because in the eyes of the ruling class government, we are all collateral damage. Little to none of the politicians’ offspring will fight on the front lines of any war. You will never see Bush’s daughters in Iraq. So what is the real argument?

Gays in the military is another issue by which the masses are divided and conquered. As long as we allow the powers that be to manipulate us with racism, sexism and homophobia, we will always attack each other, and not work to address the real problem: the divide between the have and have nots. That is where we all must place our solidarity.

Third, there is no way to engage in any critical dialogue with anyone who is so fanatically steeped in religion. Religion, as well as all of its texts defies logic and reason. All discussion will dissolve into emotional rantings and ravings, like some I have read already. The best thing to do is to ignore them. They are too far gone.

Fourth, religion has been used to justify the worst atrocities in the world. Hitler’s extermination of non Aryans to create a master race, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Native American genocide, the enslavement of Africans, the Salem witch burnings, the KKK, manifest destiny and so on.

Let us engage in the real fight for human rights and the end to the military industrial complex. Let us not continue to let gays in the military and homosexuality to be the smokescreen by which we the people blindly pick ourselves apart and allow the ruling class to get the spoils.

Check out my blogsite at http://www.awareandoutraged.com to get information and links to organizations if you are interested in activism, grassroots organizing and community building. Let us fight for each other, and not against each other.

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By truthbear, June 12, 2007 at 11:53 pm Link to this comment

DetainThis;  Mike Mid-City;  Billy the Dik;


DT:, the constitution was written by Christian men, so, the bible has everything to do with our way of life, if you weren’t such an idiot you would know that….

MMC:, It is written in the bible, But If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant…And you, are by no means Christ like as you suppose, to believe what you believe is contrary unto the word of God, therefore, you are not of God…

btd:, I call a spade a spade….


I wonder if the Lord were hear upon the earth today, would He offend you by telling you that your way of thinking will get you lost…Would you tell Jesus Christ that he doesn’t know what He is talking about…Would you tell Jesus that you are going to live and think your way and it’s your way or the highway….

You cannot expect to live a life of sin and be saved…There is only one road unto eternal salvation and it is, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it… Of course, there is another way;

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat…

And again, God is a merciful God and a forgiving God, but He is also a just God, coming to pass judgment upon all men/women…

May you have a blessed day…

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By DetainThis, June 11, 2007 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

To those who preach about the evil of homosexuality and other carnal sins, as if they should be major factors in determining domestic policies affecting groups of people:

The Supreme Arbiter of this country is the Constitution — not the Holy Bible. Case closed. Move to some commune in Montana or The Vatican if you can’t handle that basic reality.

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By truthbear, June 11, 2007 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

Billy the Dick;  Mike Mid-City;

I will pray for the lost including queers, but I will not back them because their lifestyle is contrary to the word of God!

God is a forgiving God, God is a merciful God, and it is not God’s will that any should perish but to come unto Repentance, you will find this in the Bible if you read the bible…I will continue to preach the gospel and if you choose to continue in that lifestyle or if your willing to condone that lifestyle, well then, that will be between you and God…The blood will not be on my hands…God is not a compromiser…We will all be judged…

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By DetainThis, June 11, 2007 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

Reply to Estanislao

You wrote:

“Tim, just goes to show YOU don’t know jack about the Constitution.

Rons answer was excellent. He’s not against gays in the military - he’s against profiling Americans.

We’re individuals with God given rights.
Those rights cannot be taken away by government or by anyone.

You’re either for the Constitution or you’re ‘just like the other pukes’.”

Hear hear. Well-said.

Report this

By DetainThis, June 11, 2007 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

Reply to Tim

You wrote:

“Ron Paul shows he doesn’t know jack about liberty. What an ignorant response from a true moron - just like the other pukes.”

The floor is open. Take your time in lecturing Dr. Paul and everyone else on individual rights and liberty. Tell us why Dr. Paul is so ignorant for discouraging the disciplining of people by their group status.

Either that, or you can simply come clean and admit that you chose Paul out of the bunch because he gave the answer you could not refute. You attacked the candidate who is the champion of personal liberty — the one candidate who poses the biggest threat to your beloved, AIPAC-sucking Dumbocrat candidates.

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By truthbear, June 11, 2007 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

TheEnd;

Number (1) I need not prove anything to you or anyone, The Bible is and will be the final authority…

Number (2) The Bible if you read the Bible, speaks against all workings of iniquity, including homosexual lifestyles..The Bible speaks against “ALL SINS”, and that means anything that is contrary unto the word of God…And with that said, Yes, God is a merciful God, willing to forgive “ALL SINS”, but we must turn away from sin, turn away from a sinful lifestyle…We cannot continue living a sinful life because God will not honor sin…

I and others like me are called by God to preach his gospel and to show the other lost souls out there the errors of their ways, but, just like the children of Israel, there are some who choose not to listen, they choose their own idols in life, therefore, if they are not willing to listen to the word of God, they will pay the ultimate price…

You want to say that I am full of hate, so be it…You want to say that I am a blasphemer, well then, so be it…You and the others are confused about what is hate and what is love and mercy…

To hear you say that there is nothing more important than God’s word tells me you are lost…Yes, there are issues,important issues in our world today, however, there is nothing more important than God…

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By DetainThis, June 11, 2007 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment

Reply to Stan

You wrote:

“Ron Paul’s answer was insulting. Here he is blaming gay people for a policy they didn’t create. Gay people didn’t create Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, Ron.”

Please provide the Ron Paul quote which constitutes that criticism; or better yet, you could simply respond to this reply with some more BS about how all Republicans are the same old bigot.

Either way, you know that you’re full of it.

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By THOMAS BILLIS, June 11, 2007 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Surprising on as enlightened a format as Truthdig some commenters have not dealt with their own latent homosexual tendencies.Good luck now that the Sopranos is over Dr Melfi has time for you.
Of all the NATO countries only Portugal and the United States do not allow openly gay men to serve in the military.Preety soon if this Iraq disaster is allowed to continue they will be so short of men they will be openly recruiting gay men.I can see the advertisements now,join the Army show tunes played at dinner.Uncle Sam wants you and you and you.If someone is willing to shed their blood in defense of this country their sexual orientation shoud not be a disqualifier.Remember this the gay haters who use Leviticus as justification for anti gay rhetoric forget to mention that it also says prostitutes should be burned at the stake and that you can kill your children if they are disrespectful.Believe one believe them all.

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By Stan, June 11, 2007 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republican base is anti-gay, no question about it.  The canidates give them what they want.  What truly is amazing though is John McCain who will fight for illegal aliens but not gay Americans.  He’s willing to put his presidential hopes on the line for people that are not American.  If they are gay then it’s a different story.

Ron Paul’s answer was insulting.  Here he is blaming gay people for a policy they didn’t create.  Gay people didn’t create Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, Ron.

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By TheEnd, June 11, 2007 at 11:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey TruthBear,

I’m not clear on a few things: you say, “You and your lifestyle are a disease to this great country and to the world, you will be eradicated…”  How so?  I’m assuming when you speak in metaphors as you have (nation states can’t really have a the flu), you mean that gay folk are social disease?  If so, again; how?  Can you please cite for me and the others here what the gays have done to hurt the country so?  I mean, are they denying healthcare to sick people?  Do they practice tax evasion?  Are they physically attacking people in the streets the relatively few times they have, admittedly, tacky parades?  Do they fly planes in to our buildings killing thousands?  What? 

You also wrote, “The funny thing is, I am not the judge or jury, but I will get to watch the one who is…”  I’m assuming here that you’re referring to gentle Jesus?  Man, if you told me that the apostle Paul was coming back to permanently finish his letter to the Romans, then you would make more sense.
But it should be noted that you ARE placing yourself as judge and jury because last time I checked, no messiah.  You are personally willing to take action (at least in this forum) against this group of people before the Judge has laid down His ruling.  That IS what He is coming back to do, yes?  Who are you to preempt the creator of the universe, you blasphemer?

I know all to well that any line or reasoning will fall off you like a towel at the gay bath house, but you should know how you sound.  Every person on that debate stage basically eschewed this “issue” for the reason that it is trivial in the face of, say, the energy crisis, immigration, healthcare, war in the Middle East, etc.  And you want a soapbox to attack people that have co-opted the rainbow?!  Produce some evidence that gays are actually doing something to hurt the country and maybe someone will listen.

Oh one more thing: when you say a group of people will be eradicated for one reason or another, that’s a threat with legal ramifications.  Ethnic minorities, religious groups, genders, etc. don’t allow for such hate speech, mythology or not.  Watch you step there, bucko. Lawyers are everywhere! - TheEnd

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By truthbear, June 10, 2007 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

billy the dick; 

Sounds like your talking from experience, did you squeal like a pig too…But you must not worry about me so much, like I said, I will not be the judge or the jury…

Mike Mid-City;

No anger here chester, but with all your warm greetings I feel so loved, I appreciate you to..It’s amazing how people can be so concerned for my well being…

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By truthbear, June 9, 2007 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment

Billy the Dik;

You wouldn’t know the truth if truth bit you in the bud! It’s not my ways you should be concerned about…


Mike Mid-City;

I hear they call you chester the molester…So how does it feel to take liberty with a child…Can’t handle a grown-up Huh….

Report this

By truthbear, June 9, 2007 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Queers, Faggots, Dikes, what ever you want to call yourself, you are the moral ruin of this country…

Go ahead and laugh and play now because soon your life will change…You will be dealt with up close and very personal…You and your lifestyle are a disease to this great country and to the world, you will be eradicated…The funny thing is, I am not the judge or jury, but I will get to watch the one who is…

You all have a great day!

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By 911truthdotorg, June 9, 2007 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

Every time giuliani opens his mouth I have to keep a puke bucket close by. God, he sickens me.

What the hell is he talking about by having a “hybrid” Army??  Is he talking about including Blackwater??

For someone who seems to REALLY enjoy dressing like a woman, a REALLY ugly woman, you’d think he’d be all for gays in the military. Or are they just OK in the White House?? Hmmmmm…..makes you think.

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition

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By Estanislao, June 9, 2007 at 7:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tim, just goes to show YOU don’t know jack about the Constitution.

Rons answer was excellent. He’s not against gays in the military -  he’s against profiling Americans.

We’re individuals with God given rights.
Those rights cannot be taken away by government or by anyone.

You’re either for the Constitution or you’re “just like the other pukes”.

Report this

By anonymous, June 9, 2007 at 7:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I think a registered commentator should report,

#76509 by truthbear on 6/08 at 9:33 pm

This is troll bait that will ruin this site if allowed to escalate.

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By truthbear, June 8, 2007 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment

Just like all politicians, they always dodge the bullet…Politicians are professional liars and the funny thing is we pay them to lie to us…

As far as Queers serving openly in the military, go ahead, the world is already laughing at us anyway… There are more pressing issues in the world today than whether Faggot’s are being mistreated or not…

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By Tim, June 8, 2007 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ron Paul shows he doesn’t know jack about liberty. What an ignorant response from a true moron - just like the other pukes.

Report this

By Chaseme, June 8, 2007 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All I heard during this dodge session was {{{KISS}}} {{{KISS}}} {{{{WE LOVE CLINTON}}}}

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