Comment #33716 by helorat on 10/26 at 5:19 am

TRANSLATION:  Four year old with fingers in ears, yelling blah, blah, blah....

Tick tock, tick tock. Fortunately, even though you will cry and whine that the dems have lost another one of your ignorant wars, sanity will be restored eventually to our govt. with at least one house going dem. Eventually even the most nationalistic idiots come to the realization that neocons can’t govern.

RE: Comment #33076 by glad yer irrelevant on 10/24 at 3:09 pm

gyi: “Ha, our asses are getting kicked. Deal with it.”

If this is “getting our asses kicked” what do you call the loss of the Philippines in 1941, followed by the Bataan death march, or 1000 dead in 76 hours of combat in one battle on an island far smaller then Manhattan, or a half million dead in less then 4 years and leaving more people under murdering dictators when we were done then when we started? Are you terminally ignorant, brainless, or just brain dead?

gyi: “Who has control of all branches of our government?”

If this is true I guess I am not quite that irrelevant am I. Perhaps it is you who are irrelevant?

ghi: “Who won’t leave? Who won’t quit?”

Yup, that’s me.  You got one right anyway. Interesting you take such great pride in running away and quitting it must be sad and embarrassing being you. I just cannot even imagine it.

ghi: “Who won’t change?”

You could not ID change thru that smoke filled haze of your sixties defeatist mentality if you were covered in 200 pounds of pennies.

ghi: “Who calls the majority of Americans traitors for disagreeing?”

Not the majority, the loudest whiners and the historically and militarily ignorant; and I do not call them traitors for disagreeing, I call them traitors for giving aid and comfort to the enemy that is kinda the definition of traitor after all
.
ghi: “Who owns it? YOU”

Does that mean that I can tell you it is none of your business then?

ghi: “Who lost it? YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU.....”

Gee, not only a defeatist, but an emphatic one, who is severely premature too.  I suspect that this is not an uncommon problem with you. Do you ejaculate like this often? Is the problem physiological or psychological, or both? Next I suppose you are going to tell me Clinton had found it right?

Well ghi, the high pitched whining, crying and squealing seems to be originating at your end. And it is not my party, the only truly good reason to vote for Republicans, is democrats. Your party practically demands I vote Republican, with its advocacy for disarming law abiding Americans and its ardent support for their new religion of Secular Socialism, (plus that is the form of government we are Constitutionally guaranteed, so they have a much more palatable label). Knock yourself out with the name calling. It is good that you are easily amused. I fought for your right to be to be loud mouthed and ignorant. I have no concerns about my physical or moral courage, or my IQ.

Damned straight my but is tight, and if you think that is bad, you must be one of those aficionados of bone dancing with mister sphincter. Hmmm… might explain those other problems you have. Anybody ever accused you of being a bundle of sticks?

Helorat:  “Their only hope is to have the American left give them a victory as they gave the communists in 1975.”

Ha, our asses are getting kicked. Deal with it.

Who has control of all branches of our government? YOU

Who won’t leave? YOU

Who won’t change? YOU

Who calls the majority of Americans traitors for disagreeing? YOU

Who owns it? YOU

Who lost it? YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU.....

Bitch and cry all you want, pussbag. You’ve put your party above the country. Gee what’s that make YOU? And your party has pissed it down their leg. It’s overflowing with liars and incompetents. And you can’t change it cuz THAT’S A FACT. You can’t deal with it cuz YOU’RE A GUTLESS IDIOT. Yeah, name calling is fun, especially when it’s about you and it’s ALL TRUE.

Stick that up your incredibly tight ass and shhhhmoke it.

Leona, either we kill enough radicals so they do not cow and control the moderates or we are doomed. Their stated goal (like Hitler, like the communists) is world domination; in their case, by their brand of radical Islam. We must eventually learn to listen to what these people say. They wish to annihilate us. I prefer to keep them in the meat grinder of Iraq. By any historical measure of combat we are winning and the human cost to us has been relatively light. They are losing there, they know it, and they say it to each other. Their only hope is to have the American left give them a victory as they gave the communists in 1975. We must let the military do this while it is still “relatively cheap,” but people like you will forever keep us from the easy victories with your hopes of diplomacy working until we have to fight the hard bloody battles from a position of inferiority. WWII cost us a half million and the stakes are just as high now. It is the old pay now or pay much higher later. The only way we can lose is to beat ourselves. Even the darling of the left, Thomas Friedman, acknowledges they are playing you like a fiddle.

Diplomacy? I don’t think so. But sending soldiers into a situation where they are simply terrorist targets trying to hold down undefendable positions is pointless. Their lives have to mean more than simply providing time for us to come up with another plan. They’re fighting an ideology we don’t understand. The Iraqis hate the terrorists until they see us shoot one and then they switch sides. That’s incomprehensible but true.

The Judeo-Christian world has caused this. There were two sides of the family of Abraham. We support the “chosen” and not the red-headed step child. The Jews shunned their own historical brothers and now we support the Jews. The Islamic faith is based on getting their share of the “family inheritence.” The Jews have historically been shunned and then they shunned their own. The Jews tried to keep everyone else out of their biblical inheritence. That’s why there are any Christians at all. God envy and that’s what we’re fighting against. That’s a lot different than WWII and fighting men who wanted to “be God.”

I don’t believe you can kill enough Muslims to end their opposition and change them into moderates.

RE: Comment #29817 by Leona S on 10/19 at 2:48 pm All officers are “selected by the President”, on the recommendation of other officers. Zinni has always been a “politician (& diplomat)” that is what was perceived to be “needed” there at the time, not a strategist. What is problematic is Carter, Clinton and Gore’s comments on foreign soil. Previous President’s have had the class to shut up when they left office. Carter has become a dictator loving traitor, and Clinton is dead set on reoccupying the White House as kingmaker. (And Gore is just a plain old real live crackpot.) You have missed something. Active and retired military officers voiced their opinion with their feet during the Clinton administration, and did comment in a public forum. The media did not report it well (surprise) and it was done in a manner as to not impugn our country on the world stage. I have no fear of a Bush “dictatorship” as you seem to. I fear the government that fears my guns… as the Clinton administration did.

RE: Comment #29759 by Hemi on 10/19 at 11:33 am Neville, you used the ridiculous line “a leader for peace in our time”, you asked to be associated with the political ideology of spineless appeasement.

I do not have to “research” Zinni, he does have knowledge in this region, but that does not make his ideas the right way to do things. What is going on there is a process in work. You want it done NOW with small cost, like most “30 minute ‘americans’”. You seek to fulfill “his prophesy”. That makes no sense. Your saying “What does make sense is that if we are still at war in Iraq in 2007, the president will seek to stay on for a third term to ’complete the mission,’” makes even less sense!

I do not infer that the strategies we use today should be based on what was necessary in WWII. You have no knowledge of strategies. I point out you your lack of perspective in understanding reality and the true costs of war and its progress. And I point out the cost of placing your “hope” in diplomacy with EVIL. You have no backbone, you have no willingness for sacrifice. You expect freedom to be maintained cheaply and easily. You fail to understand we are in a battle for our civilization and are unwilling to fight. Learn about Islam, then quote Santayana.

No I do not hold “this same hope” because people like you will forever keep us from the easy victories with your hopes of diplomacy working until people like me, and your great uncles, have to fight the hard bloody battles from a position of inferiority.

Don’t rest on your great uncles’ laurels, and feign insult based on their service, tell me what you are doing, besides undermining the efforts of our military, to defend your freedom to blather.

Out of as you say “5000-7000 active and retired flag officers” this dissenting voice was from the retired officer selected by the president. YOU are in a fantasy world if you don’t see this as problematic. Unless I’ve missed something, active and retired military officers voicing any opinion in a public forum is rare. So, if a few dare to speak up after seeing the country on the wrong course it says volumes. Our country has dealt with dictators as far back as anyone can remember and nothing short of the US becoming “dictator to the world” will change that in the near future. That’s the real danger. We becoming them or something worse.

Glad to hear you have researched and found General Zinni to be a credible authority on the conflict in this region. Having found what Zinni envisioned was “true” we continue down the “road to perdition.” This makes no sense. What does make sense is that if we are still at war in Iraq in 2007, the president will seek to stay on for a third term to “complete the mission.” But inferring that the strategies we use today should be based on what was necessary in WWII is naive to say the least. Our struggles in the jungles of Vietnam are example enough. I don’t think it’s necessary to remind you of individual battles or quotes, you’ll find examples to the contrary and we’ll be back at square one. I am reminded of the quote from philosopher George Santayana: “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” One would hope that the bloodbaths endured by our service men and women in wars past were not simply foreshadowing and contracting of bloodbaths ad infinitum. Do you hold this same hope?

I had three great uncles who survived combat in the Philippines, The Battle of the Bulge and fighting Rommel’s Panzers in North Africa respectively. To infer that I, by your having casually associated me with any existent or imaginary political ideology, have denigrated anyone’s service in the armed forces of the United States of America by simply stating my personal opinion on this topic, is an insult and I leave you to your “bully” pulpit.

Neville (Comment #29571 by Hemi on 10/18 at 4:03 pm), with a pool of roughly 5000-7000 active and retired flag officers, a dozen disagreeing is a blip. And just like intel predictions, and horoscopes you can always find “true” ones after the fact. If you want to read a balanced account try INSIDE CENTCOM by Mike Delong, it cuts both ways and Delong is one of the straightest shooters around. While you are at it see what Zinni says about him in the forward. But I am sure you are too narrow minded and rooted in your fantasy world to bother. Too bad you SS (Secular Socialist) Dems don’t actually respect the military you selectively quote when you want. You root for America’s defeat and denigrate the military except when you want to use us to bash someone else.

I have a prediction for you. I predict October will be one of the bloodiest months of the Iraq War. Al Qaeda will be putting max effort into influencing the US election to get their allies (SS Dems) elected.

Your historical perspective is non-existent. What would you call the Japanese conquest of the Philippines, the Bataan Death March, Guadalcanal, Tarawa (1000 dead Marines in 76 hours), Iwo Jima, Okinawa, The Battle of the Bulge. WWII, half a million dead, and when we are done, more of the world under brutal murdering socialist dictators then when we started. Oh but that’s right, you guys are on the side of those socialist dictators, they are your heroes.

Try doing something besides watching 30 minute cartoons with 30 minute solutions.

Boy does this site have a lot of references to comedians.Colbert, Stewart, all the dimlibs pundits are well,comedians.You stupid DIMlibs,realize youre being lied to,brainwashed, and DUMBED DOWN.All of this sites’rhetoric is not to be taken seriously,as even apparently the owners of this site can attest to.What MORONS!Helorat quoted about 900 pages of facts,NONE of you libs did anything but call names and insult and as usual blow the big liberal megaphone.DEATH TO THE TRAITOROUS LIBERALS!Id like to treat you all like a bunch of frikkin “fetuses"as you morally devoid and sick people do to them!What MORONS!communists!

“’This is in fact the wrong war at the wrong time,’” said Retired Marine General (four-star) Anthony Zinni formerly President Bush’s special envoy to the Middle East peace talks.

This general served as the President’s peace envoy to the Middle East through May of 2003. He expressed his reservations about the war at that time and he was relieved of his position.  One example of how anyone with experience, brains and conscience is long gone from the process.

Back in 2003 Zinni said: “‘If we think there is a fast solution to changing the government of Iraq, then we don’t understand history, the nature of the country, the divisions, or the underneath suppressed passions that could rise up. God help us if we think this transition will occur easily.

‘The attempts I’ve seen to install democracy in short periods of time where there is no history and no roots have failed. Take it back to Somalia and other places where we’ve tried. It’s not an easy form of governance to put in place and to be understood.’”

No shit general! Prophetic to say the least.

The spineless State Department couldn’t separate themselves from the sense this man was making fast enough. They denigrated this man’s service. Three years ago General Zinni had a clear picture of what would happen and he was belittled and orphaned by this administration. He was hand picked for his insight and made the right call. It just wasn’t what they were selling. What a shame. I’ll stand with the former general over the drunken Yale graduate any time. Alcohol must have pickled Bush’s brain.

“He” enlisted, trusting that “his” life wouldn’t be spent in vane. “He” was confident that men with insight, like Zinni, would be calling the life and death shots. The current commanders are afraid to speak up. They don’t want to be removed too and lose all control to the Washington whacko. Sure “he” volunteered; “he” didn’t know the fiasco “he’d” be chaperoning.  IF “he” goes back, “God bless him.” That would be redundant though!

Mothers can deal with their wombs and their conscience.  I’ll side with Laura Bush and her Today Show quote on Roe vs. Wade: “No, I don’t think it should be overturned.” She should be careful or they will “Zinni” her!

Q: What do you call a NEOCON abortion?

A: Iraq!

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!

Neville, sorry, Hemi, wake up! If “he” was sent to Iraq, “he” was a volunteer. And those who have been to Iraq, often ask to go back, because they know they are doing good and what is right. Everyone “wants peace” particularly those who have seen war. The prospective mother is the only one with the choice in the abortion, not the “abortee”. Go talk peace with the Islamic Fascists or Dictator “Mentally Ill”. You display the logic, and laugh the laugh, of the delusional.

Boy you are whacked!

“CHRISTIAN NEOCON” (praying): God, why don’t you send us a leader for peace in our time?!

GOD (answering): I did. You sent him to die in Iraq!

Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

A NEOCON praying, that’s a good one!
I’m surprised that spell check let me type CHRISTIAN and NEOCON in the same sentence without finding fault!
Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Hey Al, I missed ya.

Looks like you missed the lesson on projection.

Al says:  “i left this burg of traitorous fools long ago,you should too.what incredible liars!liars/liberals-they actually lie to themselves!amazing...but scary,too.”

“psychological projection” is a defense mechanism in which one attributes (or “projects") to others, one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them.

I embrace your hate, Al, but by reading this maybe just a bit will sink in and thus, in my own way I’m making the world better a better place for those who have to talk to you in the future. NAW, who am I kidding?

Helorat,

Interesting how you avoided any reference to Bush and Cheney’s lies. You say, “Try presenting one just one (example of Bush Co. lying), with a verifiable source.”

But, when presented with not one but two, suddenly we hear more of your diatribes about guns, Clinton and now even Reid, AIDS and Stalin. You actively avoid facing facts because to face them your entire “belief” structure will come crubbling down. Bummer, LOL.

All you are doing is talking in circles and whacking your strawmen. Please tell me you have something more than the circular ravings of a right wing lemming to challenge the indisputable evidence of just one of Bush and Cheney’s lies.

“CHRISTIAN LIBERAL” (praying): God, why don’t you send us a cure for AIDS?!

GOD (answering): I did. You aborted it!

Are YOU listening?

Just who is it that decides who lives and who dies?

Who dehumanizes a helpless group and expects no fallout to society.

Who guards their money with guns then advertises “GUN FREE ZONE” in front of their children’s schools and expects the crazies not to show up. And then when they do, they are given even free advertising to ensure their notoriety, their place in history and set an example for other crazies. What more could they ask for?

Who would hang that same sign in their front yards, and then expect the burglars to show up?

In this country Progressive Liberal = Hypocrisy not by personal choice, but by avowed public policy.

helorat,
i left this burg of traitorous fools long ago,you should too.what incredible liars!liars/liberals-they actually lie to themselves!amazing...but scary,too.

RE: Comment #28902 by glad not to be ANYTHING like you. How many people listened to Bill Clinton’s interview with Chris Wallace during which he repeatedly stated he ordered the assassination of UBL. Isn’t that illegal? OK for him, right? No Geneva Convention or moral high ground requirements for him, right? That’s what I thought. Oil companies make 10% profit! Evil! Evil! Bad! Bad! Harry Reid makes 300% and does not follow ethics rules, and no one bats an eyelash. It is selfish to want people to have the right to defend themselves? Virtually school shooting deaths were not caused by too many guns, but by one too few in the right place at the right time. I have all I want and far more then I need, when it comes to guns. Ok, well maybe not really all I want, but I am not concerned about buying them or anybody trying to take them away. Get off your high horses of hypocrisy. Right and wrong and what is good for the country is irrelevant to SS Libs. Power is what you want and power is all you care about. You proved that when Senate Dems gave Clinton as good a vote as Stalin ever got from the Politburo during his trial in the Senate. Not one man with a conscience among them, or you. And I am damned glad not to be like you.

Hmmm, sorry, Bush and Cheney both lied to the American people. Your 10,000 word ramblings doesn’t change that FACT one little bit. And your position on guns is selfish, ignorant and dangerous. We’ll see who are the traitors soon enough. Just don’t hurt any children when you snap and go on your rampage against the evil liberals.

gladrob,
Since you have been such a cooperative foil, I will accede to your request Comment #28635 by gladrob on 10/13 at 11:31 am (to a limited extent), temporarily at least, I will address your other BS later. I will address the issues of your alleged Cheney/Bush “lies”. I will do this because you have made it easy, as I expected you would. I have already addressed the issues and I can merely cut and paste most of it, I have a lot of material and experience, and I am interested to see if the post will occur on Sunday.

First, we are a republic not a democracy (the more democratic we get, the less American we become), and it is the Constitution that is the foundation of the American Republic! Would that you gave so much weight to that Creator part of the DoI; but as usual it is the SS who are the selective readers.

Second, were you lying when you said the Constitution said “all men are created equal”, no I don’t think so (showing yourself as a near terminally ignorant pissant typical SS (Secular Socialist) American college student maybe, but a liar, not that time [other times, but not that time]); was Roosevelt a liar when he told reporters the Doolittle raiders (remember that one way near suicide mission conducted for propaganda purposes; I can only imagine what you and your buds would have said if Bush had done something similar) came from Shangri-La? I think not.

As an aside, I notice with interest how you rely on a comedy site for your factual information, very typical of a sycophant of the unserious party.

First, Clinton is not just a proven liar, he is guilty of perjury. If I remember correctly, he has been disbarred. No body is perfect, but he was not just hiding something from his wife and family, he was committing perjury in the course of a Civil Suit. I also seem to recall he had recently signed an order modifying the UCMJ defining a sex act for prosecution of military members that said what he did was sex while he was saying publicly it was not. If you think that is purely personal then I guarantee you were not in the military when it happened. When that worthless sleazeball (I had professional acquaintances with access to his Whitehouse, and he and the former first slut “loathed” the military) was reelected, that was the day I decided I would not stay in the military longer then what was required to collect a retirement, because although I do not feel I have the right to pick my CinC, I sure as hell was not going to risk my life, or even a hangnail, for the idiot dirtbags that reelected him. As I said before, 911 occurred in 1993, Clinton had means and authority to act for years and did nothing worthwhile for years. Clinton lied about that and people died. And the left wing media covered for him. Remember all the split polls after the Monica affair… How do you rate Clinton personally v job performance? Nah, you’re probably to young.

Second, there was a link between Iraq and al Qaeda found by the 911 commission. They said they could not find a certain operational link between Iraq and al Qaeda or a link between the 911 attacks and Iraq. The headline on the NYT is a lie, and a malicious one.  Clinton’s own state department released this: “In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the Government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq,” the indictment said. http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive_Index/Bin_Laden_Ate f_Indicted_in_U.S._Federal_Court_for_African_Bombings.html< /a> “This passage led Clarke, who for years had read intelligence reports on Iraqi Sudanese cooperation on chemical weapons, to speculate to Berger that a large Iraqi presence at chemical facilities in Khartoum was “probably a direct result of the Iraq­Al Qida agreement.” Clarke added that VX precursor traces found near al Shifa were the “exact formula used by Iraq."” Page 128; 911 commission report. All the members of the Clinton administration have refused to repudiate this information as it remains their justification for the al Shifa attack. In 2001, with Bin Ladin’s help they re formed into an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications that by then the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar al Islam against the common Kurdish enemy Page 61; 911 commission report. Numerous documents captured after the fall of Iraq and after the publishing of the 911 commission report confirm this. Perhaps you have the training records from Salman Pak, or maybe you were there for years and can certify no al Qaeda were trained there, but some Clinonistas still believe there was a connection (http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040303.asp ).

When Bozo the clown flashes “we do not believe such a meeting occurred” - I do not believe the 911 commission report said that. Pending a reference, it appears the evidence indicates Bozo is the liar, and a more egregious one, in as much as he was not speaking extemporaneously, as Cheney was. The closest thing I can find the report saying is “The available evidence does not support the original Czech report of an Atta-Ani meeting” on Page 229. Can you point out where in the report I can find Bozo’s quote?

My family began recording the news when I was deployed for the war in Iraq (Part I [90-91]) and I found looking at the old news interesting, and began randomly recording it myself. I do so much more regularly now with the advent of DVD recorders, and I could find “lies” like those for half Dems in the congress.  Numerous mainstream media acknowledged the link prior to the 2000 elections, when massive amnesia suddenly struck. But I can still lay my hands easily on an MP3 of an ABC report from 1999 that is quite certain there was an operational linkage and alliance.

Saddam was an ally of Islamic terrorists, and financed Islamic terrorists, he gave aid and comfort to terrorists including al Qaeda; there is no doubt a connection between them.

Regarding your second clip from Bozo, wiretapping without a warrant, as I pointed out already on this site, for intelligence gathering, as the primary purpose, may be used to convict enemy agents. It is not possible to determine what question is being asked, and what he is referring to. I have not heard any accusations of purely internal “wiretaps” without a court order, but if there have been, the supreme court has already ruled them legal (US vs Truong [I think]) under those circumstances. If you are trying to say the NSA intercept of cross border calls makes this a lie, they are not “wiretaps” per say, and regardless in either circumstance it is ludicrous to expect the President to reveal how we are fighting a war during a time of war. In addition to mirandizing terrorists, do you want us to include them in the NSA, NSC, and JCS meetings?

Your trying to Plame Cheney, and Bush I guess, just like Libby was Plamed, because he can’t remember exactly what he said during an interview and answers extemporaneously. It’s a gotcha. Having been in the circumstances of hosting a radio call in show (as a fill in) and arguing with another host (SS) of the same show we both agreed that an extemporaneous incorrect answer, misstatement, or failure to recollect something is only a lie when evidence is presented and the person does not recant. Particularly when there was no base crime.  If this is a lie, then you are a more egregious liar.

With regard to the torture BS, there were plenty of SS Libs seriously advocating real torture following 911. By the facts as they stand, the “enemy prisoners” we have captured do not deserve GC protections. They deserve to be executed. If you do need to torture them to save American lives I see no problem; if they are about to set off any NBC weapons on our soil, I hope they start cutting of the extremities of everyone we hold until someone talks. The only way the GC will hold weight with people who do not obey it, is not to allow them to hide behind it. And waterboarding is not torture. I have been waterboarded in training, and it has caused no permanent harm. You SS do not want to hold the Islamofascists accountable. No one even thinks about war crimes trials against them AND those who support them.

Pardon me if I go to “Kiplinger style” (short phrase, incomplete sentences for brevity) to answer your implication Iraq war was illegal and Bush “lied” us into it. First Gulf war ended (1991) in ceasefire, Iraq violated conditions within three months, automatic criteria under international law for resumption of hostilities; not less then 160 plus subsequent violations, over the next 12 years, would each have been adequate justification for resumption of hostilities; UN weapons inspectors stonewalled to the point of inconclusiveness for 10+ years, how long do they need???; Iraq had terrorist camps (Salman Pak, & more), al Qaeda connection, Tenet (Clinton’s appointee CIA chief held over by Bush) told Bush intel on Iraq was “slam dunk”; over 500 chemical artillery rounds (blister and nerve agent) found in Iraq, strong hard intel remainder moved to Syria or hidden or disposed of secretly (see Inside CentCom by Mike Delong [a true man of integrity, his book cuts both ways] and Saddam’s Secrets by Georges Sada). What was justification and rush for war in Yugoslavia? Genocide? Ethnic cleansing? None of that going on in Iraq right? Half the stuff in Bosnia was proven to be staged by the media. Out by Christmas ’96 right? Oh, that’s right you’re too young to remember.

“Focus on me not clearly saying the phrase came from the DOI” Not clearly, my ass, how about not at all. You clearly associate with the document that contains the Bill of Rights. Now that was a bold faced lie on your part.

Dodge my ignorant gun position? What do I need to buy a car…money! How long must I wait… as long as it takes for the dealerto count the money. Which causes more deaths… neither! The tool user cause the action not the tool. It is ignorant to feel that as an American the burden of proof is on you to show a reason to restrict my rights and not the opposite?  Again I ask “Do you see a real Fascist in that mirror you’re looking into; or is it a communist or can you even tell the difference.” They are both socialist, and statist (big government), but there is an OR in there so I am not accusing you of being both!  So your comment “So now I’m a communist AND a fascist. More crazy talk.” Shows either you are crazy one or don’t read well… yep a typical pissant American college student.

You and your ilk are more worried about the rights of the barbarians then you are about protecting this country; and would rather have us lose in Iraq if it will hurt Bush, and help get socialists back in power. At best you are un-American, at worst you are traitorous. Free Darfur, but leave Saddam alone; bomb the hell out of Yugoslavia without UN or Congressional approval and it AOK; attack someone legally with Congressional approval, and the war is illegal and you pillory Bush.  Scream why didn’t you connect the dots?! But each time they try find some dots to connect, you try to call them criminals and stop the collection of dots and tell the enemy how we were trying to do it. Which war had PWs released before the end of the war? Which war did the PWs have lawyers in? Which war did our President sustain more attacks from his own country’s politicians, academics, lawyers and media, then from the enemy’s propaganda machine? Then again maybe they are the enemy’s propaganda machine. How do you define a traitor?

Helorat,

How about we boil this down to what I consider is a very important point and one we clearly disagree on. President Bush is a liar and he isn’t lying about, some irrelevant to his job, personal matter (like Clinton). He is lying about things that directly hurt our country and get our bravest men and women killed.

So you asked: “Try presenting one just one, with a verifiable source.” I did that. A link to him clearly lying to America about getting court orders while he was illegally not getting them. I also provided a link of Cheney lying about what he and the admin. presented as a major reason to take our country to war.

Are these not good enough for you? Are you going to make excuses? Are you going to ignore them by focusing on a distraction, like the Declaration of Independence statement? My bad, it’s only the idea generally considered to be the foundation of American democracy. Of course, you focus on me not clearly saying the phrase came from the DOI, which conveniently allows you to dodge your ignorant gun position.

But let’s leave that out for now. I want to hear how Bush Co. has never lied to the American people.

Gladrob you are incredible; but you are also just plain too much fun. You go well beyond crimes against logic and circular logic to capital murder of logic. Unfortunately I had a late military semi-obligation, and I must be into work before 0630 so I am certain I will not have time to address your “Comment #28354 by gladrob on 10/11 at 3:56 pm” fully before I must leave for work, but I intend to try this weekend. Pending that, how about clearly and concisely (that would be clear and short) answering some simple questions/requests, and the one I posed at the end of my last post to you that you ignored.
1.  Where does the Constitution say “all men are created equal”?  According to you “It says that”.
2.  You say “Nice threat.” If you are able, can you please quote the threat I supposedly made against you that I did not realize I had made?
3.  What do you propose to be an acceptable standard for proof of honorable military service?
4.  How do you specifically characterize President Bush’s Discharge IAW with the accepted official terminology of military discharges?

I am unfamiliar with the longevity or off topic censorship rules of places like this, as I am rather inexperienced with posting at places like this. And, as I said you are fun to toy with. If you will post your email address (you should be willing to do this, it is your friendly ground) I will email you mine so that we can continue this directly. Also, if you will keep it to yourself, I will provide you my snail address; I would enjoy bursting your swami bubble, although I do find it interesting that you seem perfectly willing to accept a child can debate you into the dirt. Over.

“Broiler, sunburn is a problem, slippery shower floors are a problem,
Teflon is a problem. We are beset with problems.” - helorat

We are? I know of solutions to all of those problems.
Silly me I should know better, you’ll tough it out.
I was thinking bigger problems but whatever
problems you want to address is OK with me.

“I choose rationally to expose myself to the sun, take showers
on a slick surface and use Teflon cookware.” - helorat

Congratulations on using Teflon coated cookware.
I’ve heard that Teflon is safe if taken as directed.
Do you enjoy drinking Teflon by-products?
I look to you on these issues.

Thanks for the education, I’m sorry we
never touched on that McCain smear campaign
or my being out of touch with social security.
I know, your time is money and I’m just a ..........
Go ahead, you fill it in, it’s like Mad Libs!
Get it? Mad LIBS! C’mon helorat, you gotta love that!

To get back on topic…

I heard on the radio news that the Amish have decided to demolish
the school house.  That seems prudent in order to eliminate the
likeliness of the site becoming a ghoulish roadside curiosity.

Mr. Rohrbough had his say and we can argue over whether he was
selected by CBS for his views.  We can argue over whether CBS was
blindsided by his statements.  We can’t argue that his sentiments are
not shared by everyone.  There were hundreds of families impacted by
the Columbine tragedy and I dare say that they don’t all share the same opinion of what should be done to prevent this from happening again.

“We each owe a death, there are no exceptions, I know that,
but sometimes, oh God, the Green mile is so long.”
- From the Stephen King novel The Green Mile

I find this life thing very risky.
Is life the leading cause of death?
Just a thought, not a good one, just a thought.

Broiler, sunburn is a problem, slippery shower floors are a problem, Teflon is a problem. We are beset with problems. Sun exposure has benefits, slick surfaces and showers have benefits, Teflon has benefits. Cost/benefit choices are continuous. I choose rationally to expose myself to the sun, take showers on a slick surface and use Teflon cookware. The information is available for rational people to make decisions. You make your decision I will make mine.  You are turning minutia into planetary sized masses, and display an incredibly limited perspective of historical realities on the topics you present (and it appears this is nothing new for you).

You admit being overzealous. (Comment #28236 by Broiler on 10/11 at 7:28 am) BS! You told an intentional lie (you knew without a doubt it was a lie), with the intent to misrepresent and deceive in the hope it would sway the lazy, stupid or misinformed to your way of thinking (Just like the eco-Nazis try to do with global warming, which just like global cooling, happens regularly with or without human intervention, if any science is to believed; and just like the Secular Socialists try to do with most their issues including the original topic of violence.). You are guilty of the same thing you accuse President Bush, except to a greater and more egregious extent. You picked your topic, had time to research it yourself, chose to talk about it, and had unlimited time to choose your words and present them, and without a doubt intentionally lied; most likely for the reasons I mentioned. The President must deal with innumerable topics with others doing the research, has limited time to make his point, and hit the high points.  Did you place an equal number of links to sites that disagree with your position? I doubt it. But that is what you expected from the President, who has far less time to make his point, and has virtually all the mainstream media, who are eager to find every negative point of view on his topics, to hammer the negatives home. Look at what you say and what you expect of others. Check the mirror Broiler.

It would be best if you limited your posts to a list of web links (equally divided pro and con on your issue). You are a liar and have no credibility anymore with any thinking person who has read what you have chosen to write.

Helorat,

A. Alive, but unable to live on it’s own. You used “settled law” as your ONLY hard fact to support your argument before going on a tirade. My answer? I could simply say a woman’s right to choose is also settled law, so deal with it. Nobody says they want women to get abortions. But outlawing it is wrong.

B. Sorry, you can cherry pick all you want, but overall both parties have moved right, that’s my opinion and your little cherrys don’t PROVE anything. I see the consolidation of media and the attempts to consolidate more and more power in the executive branch, for instance, as moving right. You may see it differently. No child is a socialist program? News to me. It’s bush’s lame idea anyways. And btw, talk about cherry picking. Your entire party is so far right that we are actually debating whether or not evolution should be taught in schools. Pretending like evolution vs. creationism is an open question. “Oh, but you and your ignorant scientists refuse to look at the bible as hard evidence.”

C. Unemployment is historically low. And this is a fact, right?? Well, just by scanning this link http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm tells me you are full of shit again. There you go “believing” fuzzy math again?

D. Your stats look accurate as far as i can see here. Congrats! But what is your solution? Outlawing all abortions? I’d say that would be a facist, authoritarian answer and would not stop them. My choice is education and assistance, but we know how you feel about govt. helping anyone.

E. I ask you to show me how the positive outweighs the negative regarding instant gun buying and your “factual” answer is ... because I want it now. Sorry that is a stupid fucking answer. Face it, you fake. You conveniently ignore all the evidence regarding criminals and nuts getting guns just cuz you “believe” you deserve to get one instantly. You fall back on the constitution where it says “right to bear arms”, correct? Well how about all men are created equal. It says that, but I bet I know your stand on Gay marriage. Nice cherry picking the constitution and putting people at risk for your own selfish beliefs. You also state “Do you see a real Fascist in that mirror you’re looking into; or is it a communist or can you even tell the difference.” So now I’m a communist AND a fascist. More crazy talk.

F. Nope, Bush did NOT serve honorably and Cheney and the rest i mentioned flatout dodged the war. Now they are all chickenhawks, never having the balls to face it themselves. Just a fact, so you deal with it.

G. Your claim is that Clinton said he abhors the military. Clinton never said, “I abhor the military.” Here’s what he did write in a December 3, 1969, letter to Holmes:

“I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give.”

So, here we have once again, you “believing” something other than reality.

G. Murder rate. Geez, this was debunked a long time ago. Here’s a taste: IRAQ SAFER THAN D.C. My roommate got mugged last night right in front of our house and someone was shot and killed across the street about a month ago. So is Peter King right that Iraq is less violent than Washington, D.C.? I doubt it. King says he calculates the annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.51 per 100,000 as opposed to 45 per 100,000 in D.C. King’s number for Iraq is about what I get if you add up the past 12 months worth of Iraq Index data on Iraqi civilians killed as a result of acts of war, using their lower bound estimate. If I use their upper bound estimate, I get something more like 52 per 100,000.

This way of looking at it, however, ignores the 2,559 or so Iraqi military and police casualties during the same period. We would, naturally, regard it as a truly disturbing sign of disorder if cops were regularly getting gunned down in the line of duty – normally, even in very high-crime American cities, it’s quite rare to see this happen.

Clearly, you will “believe” things the govt. spoon feeds you. I call that a sucker. You see it differently. I kind of think the govt. in this instance has a lot to lose if it gives the American people the real statistics.

H. Sure I make fun of you about you’re living at home with mommy. I still think you do. I just didn’t point out that you also run up mommy’s credit card too. You are correct and I should have made that clear. Nice threat. Of course you are violent, you’re a right wing fascist. But make no mistake, I don’t need any weapon to choke you out of existence while you frantically reach for one of your precious weapons.

Don’t think Bush Co. has lied to the American people? Amazing. You say: “Try presenting one just one, with a verifiable source.”

Okay, how bout Cheney in his own words?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry7zKPsT1zM

Or maybe Bush in his own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbRcedmqvY

Gee, that took me about 5 seconds.

Can’t wait to hear your weak ass, fear-driven, Anti-American, fascist excuses. Helorat twists this fact this way and that fact that way just like Bush and the Repubs. No wonder they call people like you twisted.

“If this country is in such ecological bad shape why are we living longer and getting fatter? When we die it is from overindulgence. I see virtually zero skinny underfed kids getting free breakfasts in one of the poorest schools in one of the poorest counties in my state. I see “poor” kids buying buck a bottle water in an area with some of the best tap water in the country.” - helorat

From July 18, 2001
Teflon Pollution Sticks Around
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/18/tech/main302 136.shtml

From April 8, 2005
Teflon Ingredient Found in North Carolina Groundwater
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/teflon_nc.html

From July 8, 2005
“CBS) Tens of thousands of Ohio and West Virginia residents could be tested over the next year to determine if their health has been affected by drinking water containing a chemical used to make the nonstick substance Teflon.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/08/health/main7 07581.shtml

From January 29, 2006
DuPont Agrees To Teflon Pollution Curbs
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/01/dupont_t eflon.html

From February 7, 2006
“A chemical used in manufacturing Teflon is found in the bloodstreams of nearly everyone in the U.S., and now a new study suggests the potential carcinogen is present in many people at birth.”
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/teflon_u mbilical.html

From October 10, 2006
DuPont sees extra 6 bln usd in sales by 2015 from sustainability commitments
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/10/10/afx307 9791.html

I’ll admit to being over zealous in my initial ground water statement:
“Our entire country has already given in to buying bottled water
because the ground water in most areas isn’t fit to drink.”

Do a little research on this single contaminant, view the inventory of
the current superfund sites and then tell me there’s no problem.

Oh gladrob (Comment #28079 by gladrob on 10/10 at 1:17 pm) I feel so hurt and sorry for you that your brain damage does not allow you to cut and paste my name or spell it correctly. It is displays such logic and so much command of the facts, it intimidates me almost as much as calling me sport.  I am crushed. Would that you could actually present a few facts yourself. You just live in a fantasy world of feelings, and demand facts and logic from others with no perceived need to display any yourself. Just throw a few insults, vulgarities and idiotic questions and demands around and hope for the best.

A.  Unborn babies are alive, irrefutable fact. The only thing that determines their viability outside the womb after conception is the state of advancement of medical science; fact again. If I murder your pregnant wife, I have committed two murders; settled law. Tell me you would have it different for your first born, sport! A human accident or disease victim may be incapable of living without more life support then many fetuses. Are these victims thus less alive and possessing of less of a right to life because of the need for care? The fetus’ need was “created” by the parents, they have the same responsibility to fulfill the need they created as a perpetrator has to make restitution to a crime victim they place in similar “medical need.” Secular Socialists (SS) declare, with full authority, all living things have the right to live, hence unborn babies must therefore have it also. SS tell us animal rights trump medical research for humans. You believe an unborn baby does not even rate with inconvenience for a woman. I just bet that makes you feel so “progressive and enlightened.” It leads me to the logical fact based conclusion you are mentally ill.
B.  Are you deaf, dumb, blind, and /or just plain stupid. Moveon.org advocates almost pure socialism. This country was founded on individual responsibility and self reliance. That is the antithesis of socialism. The republican party has been dragged left by unending attacks by SS “democrats” in politics, academia media and law. Even President Bush has teamed with Senator “Pickled” Kennedy for the unconstitutional and leftist socialist no child gets ahead legislation. Your party has pulled so far left that the man who was your vice presidential standard bearer six years ago and has a 90%+ “liberal” rating (by “liberal” organizations) is excoriated and loses his primary to “Moveon” Lamont. Talk about belief without facts. How many facts do you want? Where are yours? Non-existent once again.
C.  Worked for Kennedy, Reagan, Bush2; Fact! Economic growth is fast and steady, inflation is low, unemployment historically low, interest rates reasonable, and real wages (after inflation) up 7.5%. What more do you want? Jimmy Carter Economics? You mistake economic growth with government spending. Tax revenues have increased massively with tax cuts; Fact! Deficit is caused by massive entitlement spending, look at percentage of budget spent on social welfare programs in 1965 (pre-Vietnam Build-up) vs. Defense then and now, and tell me different; and while you are at it tell me how we have not moved massively leftist/socialist in our government spending. Where are your facts, sport!
D.  The Alan Guttmacher Institute is the research arm of Planned Parenthood and openly supports abortion and widespread access to contraceptives. Their stats: Twenty-one percent of women said inadequate finances were the chief reason for their abortion; 21 percent said they were not ready for the responsibility; 16 percent said life would change too much; 12 percent said either they had problems with their relationship or were unmarried; 11 percent said they were too young; and eight percent said they already had all the children they wanted. Only four percent (4%) of abortions are obtained as a result of rape, incest or for the health of the mother.  Guttmacher Inst. Report: Abortion Statistics, 2001 & 2002 (AGI, 2005) Enough proof for you?!
E.  Just who the hell (oh I forgot you SS and don’t believe in that) do you think you are to tell me I have to justify why it is my right to buy something that is for sale and I have the money for. I am an American. Just where the hell are you from, the UK; the PRC? Do you see a real Fascist in that mirror you’re looking into; or is it a communist or can you even tell the difference.
F.  Fact GWB did serve honorably in the military. But that is not relevant, you are dodging, but it won’t work. Service in the military is not mandatory to be elected to any office I am aware of, but electing someone who has written he “abhors the military” and protests his own country on foreign soil to the position of CinC is disgusting.
G.  Murder rate/annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.5 per 100,000 based on U.S. military and independent statistical sources. Washington, D.C., it is 45.9 violent deaths per 100,000. Detroit: 41.8 per 100,000; Baltimore: 37.7 per 100,000; Atlanta: 34.9 per 100,000; St. Louis: 31.4 per 100,000; The American city with the highest civilian death rate was New Orleans before Katrina—with a staggering 53.1 deaths per 100,000—almost twice the death rate in Iraq. With no sense of irony, corrupt Louisiana Democrats blame Bush for the Katrina disaster too. Source: Congressional Record. Amazing facts to refute your emotional rants!
H.  Interesting that you try to insult me with foolish statements about credit cards in your paragraph C, then challenge my age, my capacity to have a real job, and live on my own. You cannot even stay consistent in your illogical, emotional, non-factual rants. Have you always had the magical powers to divine knowledge about the people you communicate with over the web. Did your great debating skills come with the internet version of your mail order, back of the comic book, Swami Carnak turbin. Cost one SASE and three cereal box tops right? Yes, I do indeed have a real job and a military retirement too. And you are a pitiful fool. And my Mother lives 700+ miles from me in her own paid off home, as is mine. And I have two grown children (not living with me), one of whom is in med school, and the other is a delivery driver for an auto parts store. Don’t I wish you would come and get me you crude hypocrite. Choose your weapon, I am waiting.
I.  In this country poor is a choice. My Mother’s parents were penniless immigrants who left their oldest son a paid off 5 bedroom home and a significant amount of money and other assets. My Father came to this country in his teens, died when I was 4 and the youngest of 4 and left my Mother in debt. She raised us all without welfare, or her parents help, and I earned a full scholarship to college, and worked for 3.5 of my four years in college. My oldest brother was a GS13 when he retired, my sister owns her own home and 200+ acres and has no need to work off her property, my other brother owns his own home and is prepared to go into full retirement from a state government teaching position. One more time: In this country poor is a choice. Fact!

You know gladrob, debating with you is like having a fine 16th century Spanish rapier, and fencing with an opponent armed with a spoon who thinks he is in a steel eating contest. You could not debate your way out of middle school. Was there a single fact backed by anything resembling logic in any of your 12 paragraphs? NO! And you call me a “believer”, which I am, but not the way you mean.  It does not appear that you are able to recognize facts and logic when you are presented with them. If you could, logic dictates you might actually try to present at least one yourself in the course of a rant that long, unless you think presenting only one would highlight the weakness of your pitifully emotional and illogical arguments.  You say “You really believe that there is no hard evidence that bush co. has lied to america. How could i possibly do justice to the monumentalness or hugeness or gimongousness of the sheer stupidity and ignorance of that belief?“ Try presenting one just one, with a verifiable source. Too tough for you I suppose. (Oh BTW, you may want to work on using real words spelled correctly. Between the previous quote and your fondness for vulgarity, it might lead someone to question your vocabulary).

I read very widely. You on the other hand appear to have spent too much time in these little inbred SS websites circle jerking with SS just like you. You have tried to cherry pick my arguments and gotten choked on the hard core of the pits. You have no clue how to present a logical argument, or debate an issue rationally.  This what is not going real well?

“oh,and broiler you cant “choose” facts.a fact is a fact not an opinion.”
- big Al

What about the smear campaign was not a fact?

I used the word choose because I had a choice of
what turned me off to the current administration.

And I repeat my question to you:

Is McCain illogical, hypocritical, un-American, cowardly and communist?

From John McCain to John Kerry: The Vicious Smear Tactics of the Bush Campaign
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/31/148237

Bush Admin. Launched Secret Smear Campaign Against Murtha…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/01/12/bush-admin-la unched-secr_n_13713.html

Smear campaign has McCain on the warpath
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/06/109173209403 6.html?oneclick=true

John McCain 2000: The Swiftboaters’ First Mission
http://www.patriotproject.com/2006/09/john_mccain_200.php

“McCain appears to be concerned about sentiments like this.
His falling-out with social conservatives, particularly in the South,
was considered key to his losing the 2000 nomination, though many
have blamed Bush’s campaign operatives for engaging in a smear
campaign against McCain ahead of the critical South Carolina primary.”
- excerpted from the report:
“National Security Credentials Key for 2008 GOP White House Hopefuls”
by Kelley Beaucar Vlahos on FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210365,00.html?sPa ge=fnc.politics/youdecide2006

A Fox News report drops a reminder in passing six years later.
I get it; we’re supposed to forget the smear campaigns ever happened.
Even Senator McCain was forced to swallow his pride or lose his political life.
A national hero, what a crime.

Be careful how you respond, McCain might well
be the Republican candidate in 2008!

To Jay,

You sure hit the nail on the head.

r

Comment #27697 by jay on 10/08 at 12:26 pm

hey people, “Big Al’s” an idiot so blow him off...answering him is a waste of time because people like him will NEVER, EVER get it! that why we’re in the shape we’re in now, because people give credence to what this numbnuts and his ilk have to say. he’s the true minority in an enlightened society. The man is stunted.

Al the believer rants.

Al the believer raves.

Al the believer projects.

---Al’s lesson for the day:  “psychological projection” is a defense mechanism in which one attributes (or “projects") to others, one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them. (see also, Al’s comments regarding facts.)

Al the believer doesn’t have to back up his claims.

Why? Cause he’s Al the believer.

Al the believer is impenetrable.

Al the believer won’t look.

Al the believer won’t listen.

Al the believer makes his own reality.

Al the believer is a BELIEVER.

Al the believer is right.

Al the believer is a black conservative (cuz it’s important we know) who, btw, had a really wise father (who is probably turning over in his grave).

Al the believer is black.... and white.....he’s black and white.

Al the believer is scared.

Al the believer is angry.

Al the believer hates Clinton.

Al the believer hates Muslims.

Al the believer hates libs.

Al the believer is dangerous.

Al the believer snaps :( I just hope there are no kids around.

oh,and broiler you cant “choose” facts.a fact is a fact not an opinion.But I think you may be learning.is it possible-a lib with a brain?(who is fast-becoming conservative?)broiler if you want ss dismantled,youre right.it was a bad,liberal idea all along.so how can you agree with ANYTHING else these people(libs)have to say?they are communists nothing more.I believe you are starting to think and realize how much more sense conservatism makes.Conservative govt. is like a good parent.not abusive,but firm when needed.not poking their nose in their kids business but not lettin them do anything seriously self-destructive,and protecting them.liberal govt is like most of the parents of the kids in the neighborhood i grew up in,who as a child could stay out later than me,and basically have more fun than me.I go to that old neighborhood rarely,but sometimes just drive through and see whats up.those kids with the “lib"parents i was so jealous of as a kid,are now crackheads,gangbangers,in and out of jail,etc.etc.and this is most,not all,but most.Liberalism is an alcoholic,drug-addicted,sex addicted,abusive parent who doesnt protect its children but advocates laws to kill them and it must be killed.and helorat,your posts are brief when condemning liberalism.we could both write 20 volumes on the hypocrisies and problems of the comlibs.and not even touch the surface of its evils.

helorat,

its funny how the only person who so far has made any sense on this thread is another conservative.I think youre right about wasting my time with those who would rather believe, i dont know,ANYTHING except what their eyes show them.Check those last three posts by broiler and madrob and you almost start to think that maybe there should be an intelligence test given before you can vote.These guys are truly funny but things’ll get serious real quick if they ever get in power.You guys really remind me of the time when the pope said the muslims were violent.they said"we are not violent!and just because you said that, we are going to killyou and burn your churches!” Hilarious how anyone sane could ever see these two as intelligent or well-informed after reading these posts.What is scary is that jokers like these are very much mainstream. All those words written and still NOT ONE FACT,or even credible idea.Lib’s basic goal seems to be “dismantle evry American institution,the economy,all moral responsibility,and after were done well replace it all with-o yea,thats the part they havent figured out yet.what pathetic, brainwashed people you are.You guys obviously dont know much about communism.go read about and its history and tell me the difference between what you believe and communism.If you are as smart as you think you are,you will join me and helorat and the rest of the American patriots afterwards and recant your commlibism.But you are not as smart as you think you are,thats the only problem.And without the odious,morally bankrupt act of abortion you people would have no platform at all.that FACT alone makes libs disgusting people.as helorat said “replacing one act of irresponsibility with another.what libs dont recognize is that with rights come responsibilty.MORAL responsibility.The only good thing about you libs is that eventually youll abort and birth control yourselves out of existence.

“social security reform-a paltry 19&#xof; money put into the system would have the option of going to an investment fund OF THE BEARERS CHOICE” - big Al

I stated earlier, I’m not a liberal.
I disagree with social security entirely.
Don’t reform it, do away with it.
You earn it, you keep it.
You’re offering me the option of investing a
paltry 19% of these deducted earnings when I
should be entitled to 100% of the earnings outright.

Wow, what a deal! Repeat, I’m not a liberal.

Let’s explore a few of Hellrat’s “belief-o-facts”:

A. You believe “fetuses have a right to live”
REALLY? MAYBE YOU CAN BACK THAT UP, SPORT.

B. You believe “moveon.org types have taken a great leap left”
HOW BOUT SOME PROOF OF THAT? I’D SAY BOTH PARTIES HAVE GONE RIGHT AND REPUBS ARE SO FAR RIGHT NOW THAT THEY ARE RADICAL.

C. You believe “supply side economics worked for Reagan”
STILL BASKING IN THAT POST REAGAN GLOW HUH? MAYBE IT WAS HIS HISTORICALLY HIGH DEFICIT HE RAN UP. KINDA LIKE THE HISTORICALLY HIGH DEFICIT BUSH IS RUNNING UP. TELL US HOW YOUR CREDIT CARD ARE PAYMENTS GOING THERE RATBOY?

D. You believe “virtually all abortions are for birth control purposes”
YOUR KEY WORD HERE IS VIRTUALLY, RIGHT? SHOW US YOUR PROOF OR STFU.

E. You believe people should be able to aquire guns “instantly”
WTF? WHY? SHOW US HOW THE POSITIVE OF THIS OUTWEIGHS THE NEGATIVE.

F. You probably believe GWB, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Rove… served honorably in the military.
LOL, NEXT.

G. You believe “murder rate is lower in Iraq”
WHAT A NUMB SKULL. REALLY?? CARE TO PROVE IT? WHO WAS IT THAT SAID STUPID PEOPLE BELIEVE THE BIGGEST LIE EASIER?

H. You believe you have a real job.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU DON’T AND YOU ARE ALONE IN MOM’S HOUSE FEVERISHLY TYPING OUT YOUR MANIFESTO-LIKE RANTS AGAINST THE GREAT EVIL IN THE WORLD. THE LIBERALS. wwwwwhoooooooooooo. we’re coming to geeeetttt you. I got an “SS” patch on my jacket ooooooolol.

I. You believe poor is a choice.
THAT’S JUST CRAZY TALK AGAIN. DAMN THOSE LAZY BASTARDS.

Oh well, I’m actually at MY real job and I shouldn’t waste any more time making fun of your ignorance. You believe alot of crazy shit there hellrat. You really believe that there is no hard evidence that bush co. has lied to america. How could i possibly do justice to the monumentalness or hugeness or gimongousness of the sheer stupidity and ignorance of that belief?

You are a “believer” and that’s the bottom line. Nothing will ever penetrate your granite-like skull that isn’t in line with your beliefs. So, innocent (living people) will die, poor will suffer, corruption will flourish, you will get fatter, the environment will become more toxic, the deficit will grow, terrorist population will grow also, more kids will die of guns, we’ll go to war with more countries, kill kill kill, hate hate hate, fear fear fear, steal steal steal, pollute kill steal greed and on and on until somebody WINS. Yeah, you must WIN. It’s all so simple, we are evil and you are good.

I feel sorry for you Al and I don’t say that as a slam at all. You are deathly afraid of those NOT in power. My hope is that you allow some tidbits of what is REALLY going on seep into you thinking. Visit mediamatters or any of the so called evil side sites and read with a truly open mind. Try to see the big picture. Who REALLY is benefiting from decisions? Are there patterns here? We are all attacking each other (me included) but your arguments are not persuading me and maybe mine aren’t either. All i know is that it’s very easy to see the right lying and deceiving now. You don’t see AN