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Book Excerpt: ‘The Israel Lobby’

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Posted on Oct 8, 2007

(Page 3)

THE LOBBY’S MODUS OPERANDI

It is difficult to talk about the lobby’s influence on American foreign policy, at least in the mainstream media in the United States, without being accused of anti-Semitism or labeled a self-hating Jew. It is just as difficult to criticize Israeli policies or question U.S. support for Israel in polite company. America’s generous and unconditional support for Israel is rarely questioned, because groups in the lobby use their power to make sure that public discourse echoes its strategic and moral arguments for the special relationship. The response to former President Jimmy Carter’s Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid perfectly illustrates this phenomenon. Carter’s book is a personal plea for renewed American engagement in the peace process, based largely on his considerable experience with these issues over the past three decades. Reasonable people may challenge his evidence or disagree with his conclusions, but his ultimate goal is peace between these two peoples, and Carter unambiguously defends Israel’s right to live in peace and security. Yet because he suggests that Israel’s policies in the Occupied Territories resemble South Africa’s apartheid regime and said publicly that pro-Israel groups make it hard for U.S. leaders to pressure Israel to make peace, a number of these same groups launched a vicious smear campaign against him. Not only was Carter publicly accused of being an anti-Semite and a “Jew-hater,” some critics even charged him with being sympathetic to Nazis. Since the lobby seeks to keep the present relationship intact, and because in fact its strategic and moral arguments are so weak, it has little choice but to try to stifle or marginalize serious discussion.

Yet despite the lobby’s efforts, a considerable number of Americans—almost 40 percent—recognize that U.S. support for Israel is one of the main causes of anti-Americanism around the world. Among elites, the number is substantially higher. Furthermore, a surprising number of Americans understand that the lobby has a significant, not always positive influence on U.S. foreign policy. In a national poll taken in October 2006, 39 percent of the respondents said that they believe that the “work of the Israeli lobby on Congress and the Bush administration has been a key factor for going to war in Iraq and now confronting Iran.” In a 2006 survey of international relations scholars in the United States, 66 percent of the respondents said that they agreed with the statement “the Israel lobby has too much influence over U.S. foreign policy.” While the American people are generally sympathetic to Israel, many of them are critical of particular Israeli policies and would be willing to withhold American aid if Israel’s actions are seen to be contrary to U.S. interests.

Of course, the American public would be even more aware of the lobby’s influence and more tough-minded with regard to Israel and its special relationship with the United States if there were a more open discussion of these matters. Still, one might wonder why, given the public’s views about the lobby and Israel, politicians and policy makers are so unwilling to criticize Israel and to make aid to Israel conditional on whether its actions benefit the United States. The American people are certainly not demanding that their politicians support Israel down the line. In essence, there is a distinct gulf between how the broader public thinks about Israel and its relationship with the United States and how governing elites in Washington conduct American policy.

The main reason for this gap is the lobby’s formidable reputation inside the Beltway. Not only does it exert significant influence over the policy process in Democratic and Republican administrations alike, but it is even more powerful on Capitol Hill. The journalist Michael Massing reports that a congressional staffer sympathetic to Israel told him, “We can count on well over half the House—250 to 300 members—to do reflexively whatever AIPAC wants.” Similarly, Steven Rosen, the former AIPAC official who has been indicted for allegedly passing classified government documents to Israel, illustrated AIPAC’s power for the New Yorker’s Jeffrey Goldberg by putting a napkin in front of him and saying, “In twenty-four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin.” These are not idle boasts. As will become clear, when issues relating to Israel come to the fore, Congress almost always votes to endorse the lobby’s positions, and usually in overwhelming numbers.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO TALK ABOUT THE ISRAEL LOBBY?

Because the United States is a pluralist democracy where freedom of speech and association are guaranteed, it was inevitable that interest groups would come to dominate the political process. For a nation of immigrants, it was equally inevitable that some of these interest groups would form along ethnic lines and that they would try to influence U.S. foreign policy in various ways. Cuban Americans have lobbied to maintain the embargo on Castro’s regime, Armenian Americans have pushed Washington to acknowledge the 1915 genocide and, more recently, to limit U.S. relations with Azerbaijan, and Indian Americans have rallied to support the recent security treaty and nuclear cooperation agreements. Such activities have been a central feature of American political life since the founding of the country, and pointing them out is rarely controversial.

Yet it is clearly more difficult for Americans to talk openly about the Israel lobby. Part of the reason is the lobby itself, which is both eager to advertise its clout and quick to challenge anyone who suggests that its influence is too great or might be detrimental to U.S. interests. There are, however, other reasons why it is harder to have a candid discussion about the impact of the Israel lobby.

To begin with, questioning the practices and ramifications of the Israel lobby may appear to some to be tantamount to questioning the legitimacy of Israel itself. Because some states still refuse to recognize Israel and some critics of Israel and the lobby do question its legitimacy, many of its supporters may see even well-intentioned criticism as an implicit challenge to Israel’s existence. Given the strong feelings that many people have for Israel, and especially its important role as a safe haven for Jewish refugees from the Holocaust and as a central focus of contemporary Jewish identity, there is bound to be a hostile and defensive reaction when people think its legitimacy or its existence is under attack.

But in fact, an examination of Israel’s policies and the efforts of its American supporters does not imply an anti-Israel bias, just as an examination of the political activities of the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) does not imply bias against older citizens. We are not challenging Israel’s right to exist or questioning the legitimacy of the Jewish state. There are those who maintain that Israel should never have been created, or who want to see Israel transformed from a Jewish state into a bi-national democracy. We do not. On the contrary, we believe the history of the Jewish people and the norm of national self-determination provide ample justification for a Jewish state. We think the United States should stand willing to come to Israel’s assistance if its survival were in jeopardy. And though our primary focus is on the Israel lobby’s negative impact on U.S. foreign policy, we are also convinced that its influence has become harmful to Israel as well. In our view, both effects are regrettable.

In addition, the claim that an interest group whose ranks are mostly Jewish has a powerful, not to mention negative, influence on U.S. foreign policy is sure to make some Americans deeply uncomfortable—and possibly fearful and angry—because it sounds like a charge lifted from the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that well-known anti-Semitic forgery that purported to reveal an all-powerful Jewish cabal exercising secret control over the world.

Any discussion of Jewish political power takes place in the shadow of two thousand years of history, especially the centuries of very real anti-Semitism in Europe. Christians massacred thousands of Jews during the Crusades, expelled them en masse from Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, and other places between 1290 and 1497, and confined them to ghettos in other parts of Europe. Jews were violently oppressed during the Spanish Inquisition, murderous pogroms took place in Eastern Europe and Russia on numerous occasions, and other forms of anti-Semitic bigotry were wide spread until recently. This shameful record culminated in the Nazi Holocaust, which killed nearly six million Jews. Jews were also oppressed in parts of the Arab world, though much less severely.

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By ???????, September 23, 2009 at 2:14 am Link to this comment
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Israelis have the land for peace debate in Israel, but such is the power of the Israeli lobby and media that we cannot have that same debate amongst our own politicians.

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By BBN, August 29, 2009 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
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Thanks a lot
http://www.shojoon.com

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By ???, January 12, 2009 at 10:34 am Link to this comment
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good job

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By al-kaon, May 21, 2008 at 10:00 am Link to this comment
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good work

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By drdcha, May 19, 2008 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment
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so bad

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By roro44, February 7, 2008 at 4:32 am Link to this comment
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Thanks a lot
http://www.roro44.com

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By 1drees, November 27, 2007 at 3:18 am Link to this comment
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I am a people lover BUT it seems that lately people who call themselves “JEWS” or “ZIONISTS” have not at all been doing themselves any favors at all, in fact they keep making one embarrasing mistake after the other. they describe themsleves as the “chosen people” which would mean a “near perfection” BUT their actions and words always go contrary to that its like nonstop bunglings.
In fact, lately almost everybody has been able to prove the LIES and BIGGER LIES and the PATRIOTIC LIES that they been telling for ages, I mean if you are “chosen people” do you think that you can pull the wool over everyone’s eyes forever, i mean doesnt your perfection tell you what is going to mess you up on the long term? ( eg LIES) I have heard that “if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth” well maybe Americans & Larry King Believe that but other people of the planet about 6 billion might not subscribe to that and also might even have alternate Sources of informations.
Also noteworthy is that the number of UNO resolutions vetoed by the USA for the Sake of Israel is way way higher than any other vetos. and then in the wars USA been supplying the Israelis with all kinds of Support from logistical to intelligence but the Israelis LIE and try to declare themselves something like a nation of RAMBOs. that “we did it all alone” BS!
Had it not been for unconditional US support which was garnished by armtwisting and blackmail fo US politicians and people, Israel would not be what it is today.
And then I do REMEMBER seeing how many Israeli spy rings were deactivated in the USA, NOW that I DO NOT GET, i mean do the Israelis have ANY FRIENDS AT ALL?
Another thing, i read in a some very authentic article that described the ZIONISTS/Israelis, it said that they usually attack the person personally with Insults and what not rather than giving logical points in reply and that is true here even on this page. I would term that CHILDISH coz a trick is a trick for a year or two not 3 centuries later.
Another Weird thing I found, although these people will fight and want to die for Israel they never want to move there or have never ever even been there either. which i found really weird.
About the palestinains, i think that years of persecution and harrasment ( not to mention killing and eviction) can drive you to vote for an organisation like HAMAS coz years later you do get really really sick of the BS.

BTW a correction here the US politicians are not BRIBED they are harrassed and threatenned and told that one word against Israel and you are gone and in the next election too you will loose, look up the youtube for AIPAC claims and details.
And its true JEWS do not consider themselves a religion, if you read their journals, they consider themselves a TRIBE, i too had the misconception that it was a RELIGION.

wish people would WISEN up or wake up and get real!

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By jim70, October 15, 2007 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

#107133 by Mossada

What ever bullshit Israel spins out to CNN is just erroded by endless reports of human rights violations against Palestinians.
———————————————————————————-

do you have any idea who CNN reporter Wolf Blitzer used to work for? really? he was a SPOKESMAN FOR AIPAC! don’t EVER expect fair, balanced, or proper reporting out of his mouth. it is irresponsible of CNN to have him on the air reporting on these matters.

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By Trixie, October 15, 2007 at 11:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE:#107066 by Howard on 10/14 at 3:14 pm

Maybe you didn’t hear about the reception given by Israelis to the influx of Ethiopian (black) Jews some time back.  Get the whole picture, or keep mum.

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By Mossada, October 15, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#107066 by Howard on 10/14 at 3:14 pm

You just refuse to use the word Palestinians.
Is it such a dirty word?

So all the Bulldozing and Murder and Rape never happened?  We got it all wrong?  Israel is a modern democracy where Palestinians have equal rights?  The IDF are there to protect the lives of Palestinians?

So 700,000 Palestinians were not evicted from their homes?  And anyone has the right to return to their homes?

So these terrorists just spontaneously decided to start killing themselves and anyone near enough… there is no Cause/Effect motivation…because they are “Evil Doers”?  Maybe it’s because they are scum animals?

What does it feel like to be proud of a society built on the Rape and Murder and destruction of another?  What kind of human being does one become where murder is just conveniently ignored?......I don’t expect you to feel anything except of course the Holocaust.  As we all know, that event mitigates all other “lesser” concerns of humanity.

What ever bullshit Israel spins out to CNN is just erroded by endless reports of human rights violations against Palestinians.  And those clipped tales of woes of bombs going off in Tel Aviv are so unbalanced that no one with half a brain could possibley think the EFFECT happens without a CAUSE.

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By rowdy, October 14, 2007 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment

my solution as always; thermonuclear holocaust. blast the entire fucking planet. just let it begin with isreal and D.C.. it would be glorious

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By Howard, October 14, 2007 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

Israel racist, as its been expressed here?

Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).1

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel’s ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior, the first Arab citizen to become chief executive of a key government ministry. Ariel Sharon’s original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.

Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel’s founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.

In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.

Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military. Veterans qualify for many benefits not available to non-veterans. Moreover, the army aids in the socialization process.

On the other hand, Arabs do have an advantage in obtaining some jobs during the years Israelis are in the military. In addition, industries like construction and trucking have come to be dominated by Israeli Arabs.

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence.

The United States has been independent for almost 230 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, 60 years after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 57 years.

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By weather, October 14, 2007 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s most effective Lie.

The one they tell themselves.

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By Trixie, October 14, 2007 at 10:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: #106859 by Mossada on 10/13 at 3:32 pm

Add Sen. Joseph Lieberman to your list of prospective emigrants.  Who needs an Israeli lobby when you’ve got someone in the US Senate representing Israel rather than his own constituents? 

I hope everyone watched the C-SPAN coverage of the book-signing event for THE ISRAEL LOBBY.  The authors are remarkably fair-minded and rational and their detractors anything but.

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By lodipete, October 14, 2007 at 5:43 am Link to this comment

Interesting article on Vanity Fair. 51 of the world’s top 100 influence shapers are jewish. What Israeli lobby?????

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By Trixie, October 13, 2007 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t know where you got your information, but when the Israelis supposedly pulled out of Gaza, all the major networks provided on-site coverage of homes and infrastructure there being demolished as they withdrew (temporarily).  The excuse given by Israel was that communities they had built were not appropriate to the Palestinians’ way of life and that they could reconstruct everything more in keeping with their needs.  Bullshit.  With what?  The rubble left behind? This modus operandi simply reflects that of the biblical Hebrews who, time and time again in scripture, don’t leave one stone standing on another after they raid a city, kill all the men and women “who have lain with man” and then confiscate the animals and abduct the young virgins for their own use.  The “God” who allegedly ordered all that is the same one still worshipped, and the disregard for non-Jewish human life among “obsevant” Jews is still rooted in Mosaic Law. If you want to understand today’s problem, go back to the Bible.

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By Mossada, October 13, 2007 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment
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Israel is a Racist Society.
It was built on a racist premis.
And all the lies of its right wing clique can’t hide their bigotry and spin. 

The only thing holding Israel together is hate of anyone non-Jewish.  Otherwise Israelis would be busy bitching about each other.

Ohhhh, here comes the Holocaust song….Duck!!!

Palestinians should leave the holy land and let the Israelis build a giant wall all around their precious country.  Then the world can leave Israelis to enjoy their “Purity”. (Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle etc. can move there too since they love it so much.)

Then the rest of the world can turn their back on Israel for all eternity and let them rot in their own holiness.

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By Paolo, October 13, 2007 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

As a registered Democrat (who adheres to the original Democratic Party, Jeffersonian ideals), and a libertarian, I long ago reached the conclusion that the USA should just stay out of the Middle East. We should neither support Israel, nor the Arabs, nor the Iranians. Bluntly put, none of it is any of our damned business.

America’s role in the world is to create a vibrant, free society that will be the envy (and inspiration) for the world. We should put our own house in order and become a free, prosperous, and tolerant society. But other peoples’ affairs are none of our business.

This is why I support Ron Paul for president.

In looking at Israel vis-a-vis her neighbors, I find plenty of fault on all sides. But again, it’s not my role to decide which side should win.

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By Howard, October 13, 2007 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

Nonsense, Israel has done all any country could do to get the Pal’s to give up terrorism.  Witness the last opportunity….Israel leaves Gaza and the daily rockets have yet to stop.  No instigation and there would be no reprisal.
  Did the Pal’s take the standing greenhouses and homes and businesses which were donated to them ( purchased from the settlers that were displaced and Given to the Pal’s)and make a go of it? Show the world thay want peace and attempt to get off the dole?  No, tore ‘em all down and using the grounds to send the rockets out.

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By Trixie, October 13, 2007 at 10:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#106794 by jim70 on 10/13 at 8:13 am

Zionism was established as a movement by Theodor Hertzl in the late nineteenth century, but it had its origins earlier as a result of continuing persecution of Jews, even after the French Revolution, when the influence of secularism and reason seemed to promise a reprieve.  Herzl himself had opposed it until that hope withered on the vine.

So those “Christians” who disallowed Jews the right to live unmolested—or to live, period—have to bear responsibility ultimately for the impetus that created the State of Israel in 1948.  It is understandable, especially after the Holocaust, that Jews should have wanted and the world granted them a place of their own in which to live without the constant threat of harm, and the emotional fallout from WWII provided a climate in which that became possible. 

Unfortunately, the duplicity of the British, who had a mandate in Palestine following WWII, contributed to the mess that obtains to this day.  Handled differently, the situation there might have resulted in an entirely different and more peaceful and just outcome.

What rubs me the wrong way is that many of the most trenchant elements of Israeli society today who are hell bent on hanging onto as well as expanding illegal settlements are not Jews seeking refuge from persecution, but American Jews who have left comfortable homes and incomes in the United States to further a religious, not a humanitarian or even a political, agenda. What further galls me is that the Christian Right in this country, eager to speed up the Biblical prophecy on which IT relies for its messianic expectations, has joined the ultra-Fundamentalists in Israel in supporting their encroachment on Palestinian land and is urging the West Bank settlers to stay put, no matter what. Both of these factions exert tremendous pressure in the “Israel Lobby.”

I am not about to die, nor send my children to die, for the preservation of anybody’s imagined rights based on factually unsubstantiated religious grounds. If all these warring factions—Jewish, Christian and Islamic—abided by the best their ethical and moral traditions offer as a guide to human behavior (basically identical in all three belief systems), everybody would be able to get along very nicely and bring about the peace to which so many give (lukewarm) lip service.  At the very least, Jews with their history of being the world’s whipping boy, should, of all people, have the decency to treat the Palestinians in the occupied areas like human beings!!  If they did that, the random attacks against the occupiers, born no doubt from the extremes of desperation and frustration among a brutalized population, would cease. Oppression will always make enemies, no matter where: Iraq, Israel—even (are you listening George?)—America.

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By jim70, October 13, 2007 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

#106730 by Trixie

The basic ?right? on which Israelis claim title to the ?Holy Land? is that God gave it to them in perpetuity. 

===================================================

if owning that chunk of “holy” land was the “right” of the jews, why did they not get it before 1940? they certainly had the “right” before WW2 according to them.

after WW2 nobody really knew what exactly to do with all the jews. they tried to give them parts of ethiopia, that was rejected. australia was brought up. no dice. other options were tabled, all did not pass the muster.

as far as i can tell its simple. if you are going to steal land, get it on the beach. preferably the Mediterranean. and that is just what they did. According to an american authority on what to steal and where to get it, i quote a certain Mr Sutton:

As Willie Sutton the bank robber said when asked why he robbed banks, ‘because that’s where the money is’

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By Howard, October 13, 2007 at 6:41 am Link to this comment

Jacko’s cogent words are right on !
Thanks , Jacko, for telling it like it is .
==================================

“Number two, If the Arabs had accepted the UN resolutions of 1948 then there would have been no subsequent wars and the ‘Palestinians’ (aka Jordanians of the West Bank) would have a viable state, and Gaza would be part of Egypt still. Why only pick out Israel as the violator of the UN resolutions? The very first one was ignored by the Arabs and followed by Israel.

The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as having a right to exist. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and is still bombarded with daily rocket attacks from there.

Hamas and Hizbulla are being infiltrated by Al Queda and commentators on this website are castigating the US for being Israel’s ally and hurling personal abuse at each other.

Ask yourself “Who is the enemy of the US; Israel or Islamic Terrorism?” And don’t tell me that Israel is the cause of the Islamic terrorism. The Islamic terror mercants want a return of the Caliphate and world domination by Islam;- ‘Palestine’ is just a minor foot-note to them. ”

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By Trixie, October 12, 2007 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment
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The basic “right” on which Israelis claim title to the “Holy Land” is that God gave it to them in perpetuity.  No one ever stops to consider that it was hardly a generous gift—certainly not “spacious” as the Bible alleges, nor flowing with milk and honey.  The awful truth that it isn’t adequate to accommodate even its current population begs the question of how all the Jews of the world will even find standing room there should the much quoted prophecy of their ultimate return en masse be fulfilled!

Ah, but the Talmudists have the answer.  Jerusalem is going to expand to cover all of Israel, which, in turn, is going to expand to cover the entire earth. Ask any Chassidic rabbi. Of course, the Chassidim also believe that all Jews must rise from the dead in Israel, regardless of where they died, so it is held by the sages that those buried elsewhere will roll through burrows underground (prepared for that purpose) so they can exit their graves in the flesh at the proper place.  Why they don’t just wait till Israel expands to cover the whole world is something of a mystery.  That sounds like a lot less trouble.

Anybody who supports the suppression or annhilation of the Palestinians on behalf of Zionist illusions or contemplates bombing Iran because Israel considers it a potential threat should do a bit of research into religious Jews’ concept of what will happen when Moshiach (the messiah—but not Jesus) comes and the final judgment is carried out.  Let’s just say the prospects for eternity advanced by Christians and Jews are mutually exclusive.

I am vehemently against persecution of anyone, and I’m aware that any revelation of an unpleasant truth about any specific group is grist for the mill of hate mongers.  But that does not preclude the need for a more thorough understanding of the ultra-Fundamentalist mentality that’s a driving force behind the illegal Israeli settlements and the resistance to any peace agreement that is truly fair to the Palestinians. 

Truth to tell, as long as anybody considers a square foot of Mother Earth to be “sacred,” there’s not much chance of rational discourse that might lead to peace. She’s either sacred entirely or not at all, and we humans are certainly not treating her with respect, much less reverence.

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By jim70, October 12, 2007 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

#106416 by Lefty

Jim70, you are a fucking idiot!
————————————————————————————

bite me, jew boy. go back to israel and shoot some more Arab children. it will make you happy until you look in the mirror again.

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By Howard, October 12, 2007 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Right on, Jacko !

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By ender, October 12, 2007 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment

I have respect for the Jews as warriors, but the zionist comments by Israeli heads of state are documented fact.  So are the acts of terrorism against Palestinians in the early days of the nation.  You can believe Jewish propaganda to the contrary if you choose, but, if you choose the interest of Israel, which have nothing to do with the interest of the US, above those of the US, then you are living in the wrong country.  I hope your Jewish, or they won’t like you there either.

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By Jacko, October 12, 2007 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

There is a lot of bull being written here. Number one; a jew is someone who’s mother is is an ‘orthodox’ Jew. This is usually proven by the mother’s marriage cerificate (Ketuba). If not then the maternal grandmother’s. Or an orthodox Jewish witness to the Jewishness (necessary after WW2 and the Holocaust). Orthodox means born of a Jewish mother. The mother need not be religiously observant.

Number two, If the Arabs had accepted the UN resolutions of 1948 then there would have been no subsequent wars and the ‘Palestinians’ (aka Jordanians of the West Bank) would have a viable state, and Gaza would be part of Egypt still. Why only pick out Israel as the violator of the UN resolutions? The very first one was ignored by the Arabs and followed by Israel.

The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as having a right to exist. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and is still bombarded with daily rocket attacks from there.

Hamas and Hizbulla are being infiltrated by Al Queda and commentators on this website are castigating the US for being Israel’s ally and hurling personal abuse at each other.

Ask yourself “Who is the enemy of the US; Israel or Islamic Terrorism?” And don’t tell me that Israel is the cause of the Islamic terrorism. The Islamic terror mercants want a return of the Caliphate and world domination by Islam;- ‘Palestine’ is just a minor foot-note to them.

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By Neoconned, October 12, 2007 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

People
Could this be a coincidence???

1) TOM LANTOS (Neocon of the Democrats) behind infuriating the Turks. 

2) A sudden killing of Turkish soldiers at the border with Iraq. (Mossad death Squad)

This is too much of a coincidence.  AIPAC and Mossad are doing a number on US foreign policy.

I suspect Israel’s Machivellian hand behind this.

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By gfhf, October 12, 2007 at 6:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.forex.co.ir
http://www.meta-fx.com
forex   فاركس

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By Howard, October 12, 2007 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

I think the book:  ” The Case for Israel” by Alan Dershowitz is much better. Much.  (I’ve read them Both )

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By ender, October 11, 2007 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ok Jim…that would probably work.

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By jim70, October 11, 2007 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

#106264 by ender
Sorry Jim70, but unless can prove you are Jewish through your mothers bloodline going back at least 8 generations by a synagogue, no synagogue in Israel will recognize you as a Jew, and you will not be allowed citizenship.

i have a colleauge who is a dual israeli-Canadian citizen. he can only trace his family back to 1915. not 8 generations. and i bet that i can get a citizenship straight up with only a medium size pile of cold hard cash and the willingness to shoot some arabs. what do you want to bet on it?

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By ender, October 11, 2007 at 10:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sorry Jim70, but unless can prove you are Jewish through your mothers bloodline going back at least 8 generations by a synagogue, no synagogue in Israel will recongnize you as a Jew, and you will not be allowed citizenship.

A brief history of Isreali policy:

Israel” never ever recognized the existence of the indigenous owners of Palestine: the Palestinian people.Golda Meir once said “What Palestinians?”
2// Israel never implemented a single UN resolution since its anomalous and questionable creation including UN 181 which created it-by devouring large chunks of the would be Palestine state in 1947, nor UN 194 of the same year which dictates the return of Palestinian refugees now multiplied into seven million who are still living in refugee camps outside Palestine for the past 60 years.
3/// Jewish terrorist gangs such as Haganah, Palmach, Shtern and Argun used extreme violence to ethnically cleanse thousands of Palestinians and destroyed over five hundred Palestinians villages to prevent their return as per UN 194-which 60 years later Israel still refuses to implement. Israel was built on and continues to survive on respectively gang and state terrorism. Even Israeli revisionist historians have uncovered and documented Israeli ethnic cleansing to establish the racist state in 1947.
4// No land or resources are left whatsoever for a Palestinian state: Israel occupied 78&#xof; Arab historic Palestine in 1947/8 and 22% in 1967 (West Bank, Gaza and most importantly Jerusalem which was built by the Canaanite Arabs long before there ever were Jews on earth) AND again Israel annexed-slowly but surely by implanting settlements in full day light- over 58% of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem-leaving less than 10% of original Arab historic Palestine for a Palestinian state??? Today AP reported that Israel grabbed 1100 hectares of Palestinian land near Jerusalem-just before the American sponsored “peace conference” next month.
Radicalism only begets radicalism and if the destruction of a whole nation of Palestinians and building a state on their ruins and tormenting them for over sixty years is not radicalism and terrorism-what is? Even the present Israeli defense minister Yahoud Barrack once said: “If I were a Palestinian I would be a terrorist.”  Many members of the Likud party have publically stated they never intended to recongnize the borders of Israel as established by the UN charter that created the country.

So LilMamzer, are you an Israli Citizen or an American Traitor?  Either way you should get your happy arse on a plane to the kibbutz.

BTW, my first wife was Jewish.  I am only opposed to Christian or Jewish Zionist AMERICANS THAT PLACE THE INTEREST OF ISRAEL ABOVE THAT OF THE US.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 11, 2007 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

Mearsheimer and Walt are to be commended. Their courage, clarity of thought, and moral coherence add up to a powerful piece. They are going to be targeted by the Dershowitz crowd, of course, who will orchestrate the smear campaign of their collective lives. But when the dust settles we can hope that this work will open a debate that is long overdue.

The people who would benefit most from reading this book are jews themselves. Perhaps they can begin to understand that a certain reactionary element in Israel has been in power for too long, and the actions of these leaders have brought shame to their country. Perhaps they can begin to see that some of the anti-Israel resentment that has building among the politically aware in America is not entirely unwarranted.

It’s not too late for Israel to be a beacon of true democracy, a defender of human rights for ALL, and an example of forgiveness and generosity that the world can admire. This book may turn out to be a first step in that direction.

Thanks Truthdig

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By bobadi, October 11, 2007 at 9:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What interesting posts, thanks to all.
I think it important to add that the anger directed at Jews in this thread is understandable, but it is important to realize that many Jews are working hard to end Zionism, which is the real underlying problem of the Jewish state. Many Jews see the damage being caused, the hardships being foisted on others, and the ultimate manipulation of other countries including the US; as the usurpation that it most certainly is.
Therefore it would be better to direct your anger at Zionists (both Christian and Jewish) as the real culprits in this outrage, as “blaming Jews” only polarizes those who would otherwise join us in ending fascist Zionism.

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By CHAMISA, October 11, 2007 at 8:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How refreshing not to be monitored or muzzled by a
controlling press, receive news by programmed sitcom-like TV coverage, or have to interact with the compromised “elected” representatives to express one’s views. W&M;, as well as President Carter, have taken a giant step in circumventing the parameters that dictate what the American public should think and feel, and exposing truths that heretofore have been systematically squelched. Most informed persons are only too aware of the smoke-and-mirrors creation of the Israeli state, its ruthless campaign of barbaric ethnic cleansing, land appropriation and continued intimidation of it’s neighbors, ie: its recent, baseless, invasion into Syrian space, unjustifed invasion of Lebanese infrastructures that took over 1,000.- civilian lives. Is this country, behind the scenes, controlled by Olmert, Netanyahu and Avigdor Leiberman?  Are we going to be pushed into another war, sacrifice more American lives, to allay Israeli anxieties?  Wake up America!
Long live President Carter!
Remember the USS Liberty!

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By ray burchard, October 11, 2007 at 7:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

WHO’S DREAM

Is the Israeli, American connection really that much a mystery. With America’s inception being predicated on banning together England’s down trodden. Therefore the consequential interaction between conjoined organism factions, England’s tax oppression and the new colonies self determination creates a modality of creative liberalism as a nations innate direction. Then comes along Hitler’s cruelty toward it’s Jewish population and the American’s open their peace loving hearts and arms, surprise an allegiance to liberalism’s progressive equal rights thinking.

Then as America’s adopted, the Jews propagated and with the aid of nepotism, grew their hierarchy dominance in the fields of entertainment/news, and academia’s medical, judicial and financial direction, well if one was to dominate, not by an overwhelming majority but with a decisive edge, like (9 to 8.9999… ) then the “advantage of leverage is your’s and you have effectively cloned yourself. Therefore America’s growing love and there by allegiance to a mercantile mentality as a collective commerce mindset. Where everything is than a pathetic analogy equated to money, a little house with a picket fence, two cars in every garage and a chicken in every pot. America’s greed where everything can be solved with more money.

Now we American’s may not all go to the same synagogue, but we worship at the same alter, the cash register.

In a universe with it’s predilection in duality, if “The devil is in the details”, then logically God must be in the “whole”. Therefore, this means the same matrix configuration that governs the individual components also governs the composite “whole”.

Which indicates that the matrix configuration found in physical cloning (biological) is the same matrix found in metaphysical (psychological) cloning. The body in conjunction with the head equals the animated “whole” of man, and therefore God is in the process.

Then the logical conclusion would be that by sidestepping the ameliorating effects of “Time” (evolutions natural selection), would then bring the maladies associated with age (evolutions manifest hate toward ethnic domination), sooner than later.

But then the genius of the “whole”, (totality) would be missed by the mastery of the superfluous

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By cyrena, October 11, 2007 at 3:51 am Link to this comment

#106093 by Sepharad

•  Remember, there are 10 million Moslems and only 6 million Jews in the U.S., and Israel has zero oil while the Arab world is awash in it, so as long as we (and the rest of the world) self-destruct on oil and other fossil fuel you may yet live to see pogroms against American Jews.

Sepharad,

I’m not quite sure how the number of Jews, as opposed to the number of Muslims in the U.S., has anything to do with the Price of Oil in Mesopotamia. How does any of this relate to pogroms against American Jews. Actually, I’m pretty sure that you’re on a typical straw man attempt that is miserably transparent.

First of all, where do you get your statistics from? I’d be willing to document that your ‘numbers’ are probably quite the opposite. More like 10 or 12 million Jews, and far less than 6 million Muslims, and NOT all of them ARAB Muslims. (of the 1.3 billion Muslims world wide, how many do you suppose are Arab?)

Surely you ‘reveal’ yourself in your comments connecting the OIL. So, what is it –really-? Isn’t it more like the Israeli Jews have every intention of having FULL control of all of that OIL in the ARAB world, (which is nearly ALL of the Middle East, minus the Jews that moved in 60 years ago?) And, isn’t that the whole problem? The fact that their ‘gift’ from the UN 60 years ago, didn’t happen to have that OIL? And they’ve been after it ever since? And all because they HAVE TO HAVE IT ALL? Seeing as how they really have never been into the ‘sharing’ thing, despite the fact that there is more than enough – for ALL, if some just weren’t so damn greedy?

I mean, even ALL the water, and ALL the fish in the sea…Israel just has to have it ALL! And, Americans are fighting and dying, so that Israel can HAVE that access to the OIL…ALL of it. So, lets not go on about how Israel doesn’t have a drop, when the real deal is that they’re currently in the process of controlling it ALL, with the help of our necon signatories to the PNAC.

We aren’t fooled. I mean, it’s been 60 years, and they’re still going at it.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101007P.shtml

Destroying any minute piece of humanity, that might get in the way. (like several million Arabs)

Meantime, Russia isn’t sounding so bad at all. Even for a Native American like myself. That’s how low our own nation has fallen, thanks to the same neocons who empower Israel, and ignore it’s gross violations of Human Rights and Int’l Law.

Even Putin is better.

As for THIS:
•  Also, some of the Muslim communities in Canada have pushed for Sharia law to take the place of Canadian law in domestic matters and if that trend continues and heads south, it’s only a matter of time until Jews are once again living in dhimmihood (Arabic for “second class citizen who pays more taxes and has fewer rights”).

It’s all bullshit!! Seriously, the same bogus stuff is coming out of Australia as well. We’ve heard it from France too. And, it’s all bullshit. How is it that Muslims have lived in these nations (Canada, Australia, France, and more) for all of these decades, and never tried to put Sharia Law in place before? Why would the progressives in places like Iran, be risking their own lives to de-establish the radical components of Sharia Law, and separate it from the Constitution? How is it that IRAQ, happened to be the most secular Arab nation in the Middle East, BEFORE Cheney invaded it, and gave space to the radical element?

This is all bogus hysteria –made up- by the same criminals that initiated the fake ‘war on terror’ and people like you just continue to spread the lies, even though you obviously have less than a clue about what’s really going on.

You should educate yourself, so that you don’t continue to live in such fear of your own making.

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By jim70, October 10, 2007 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment

#106093 by Sepharad
Arab Israelis are NOT second-class citizens, vote and have reps in the Knesset, and MAY but are not compelled to serve in the IDF, as all Jewish citizens are required to do. So many Arab Israelis do join IDF because they must believe that Israel is worth defending, even at the risk of their lives.

really? you think so? please find me a decision maker on what the IDF does who is NOT a jew. or a helicopter mechanic. or a missle specialist. or the commander of a submarine. i eagerly await your answer. i anticipate a dodge of some sort.


#106093 by Sepharad
PS - Someone here defined “Jewish” as a religion. But it’s not; it’s a peoplehood.

while you can call it whatever you want, the rest of the world will tell you that it is a religion. israel is a religious homeland. there is no separation of church and state. that is why their democracy is a joke. the will of the people is subjugated by the will of the religious leaders.

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By Sepharad, October 10, 2007 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Akira, moving to Russia is a bit hasty. Remember, there are 10 million Moslems and only 6 million Jews in the U.S., and Israel has zero oil while the Arab world is awash in it, so as long as we (and the rest of the world) self-destruct on oil and other fossil fuel you may yet live to see pogroms against American Jews. Also, some of the Muslim communities in Canada have pushed for Sharia law to take the place of Canadian law in domestic matters and if that trend continues and heads south, it’s only a matter of time until Jews are once again living in dhimmihood (Arabic for “second class citizen who pays more taxes and has fewer rights”).

When “land for peace” was still under consideration, the Arab Israelis in several towns suggested by Israeli negotiators to become part of the Palestinian state (in exchange for land on which Jews were living in the West Bank) were quite adamant in refusing. In the Knesset, one of their representatives shouted firmly that “We’re Israelis; you can’t just make us Palestinians!” So it didn’t happen. Arab Israelis are NOT second-class citizens, vote and have reps in the Knesset, and MAY but are not compelled to serve in the IDF, as all Jewish citizens are required to do. So many Arab Israelis do join IDF because they must believe that Israel is worth defending, even at the risk of their lives.

As for the all-powerful AIPAC, America supports Israel in general, but selectively. If it were not for the people of the Czech Republic who gave Israelis weapons when all the Arab armies (including the British-armed Jordanian forces) attacked the nascent Jewish state in ‘48, there would be no state of Israel. Likewise, in ‘67 no country, including the U.S., rushed to Israel’s aid with guns or money; the world just sat there and waited to see what would happen. The U.S. also gives much money to the Palestinians, as do Euros, Russians and Moslem countries. If the Palestinian governments had spent a fraction of what they receive on infrastructure and education, instead of using it to keep Suha Arafat and other connected elites living large in Paris and other expensive playgrounds, there would already be a viable state.

Israel does not want America to go to war with Iran—and Israelis were HUGELY upset last year when Cheney tossed off that even if Iran established a nuclear weapons facility the Israelis would take it out. They have no plans to attack Iran. Also, Sharon advised Bush to NOT attack Iraq because the WMDs had long since gone to Syria. Perhaps Sharon should have gone public with his criticism, but Israel can’t afford to publically criticize a major ally led by such a reactive airhead.

Look at it this way: Israel does not waste its citizen army and its revenue on quixhotic wars. It attacked a Syrian nuclear facility it obviously considered an unacceptable threat, and the message that the U.S. neocons and Cheney should have drawn from it was that Israel does not believe at this point that Iran should be attacked, or it would have done so. To attack Iran would make enemies the Americans and, in many cases, Israelis, do not already have. Israelies understand this, being rational, and our government had damned well better start being rational too.

(If Israel were really as nasty to Palestinians as so many of you seem to think they are, would they have close Islamic allies among the Turks and the Kurds?)The problem isn’t Israel; it’s greedy oligarchical-minded Americans (and, in the Middle East, ditto Arabs). If Israel disappeared tomorrow, the Arab world would still be floundering and looking for someone or something else on which to blame its predicament.

PS - Someone here defined “Jewish” as a religion. But it’s not; it’s a peoplehood. If the Arabs had as many secularists as the Jews do both in Israel and the Diaspora, they’d be a lot farther ahead of the game.

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By NABNYC, October 10, 2007 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have an easy solution. 

First, we already have laws which make it illegal for federal employees to accept bribes or “illegal gratuities.”  We already have laws which prohibit certain public employees from engaging in conduct which is improper or which creates the appearance of impropriety. 

The problem is that the people who write those laws (Congress) and the people charged to enforce those laws (the judges) have made sure that they are exempt.  They are free to accept bribes and illegal gratuities even though it may appear that they are simply selling the power of their office to benefit themselves and in a complete betrayal of our democracy and of the working people of this country.

Let’s write new laws making it illegal for any candidate, politician, or judge, to accept anything or any promise of anything of value, other than from an immediate family member.  Period.  No exceptions.  And illegal for anyone to offer to pay or give anything of value.  With prison for the offenders just so they know we’re serious.  Open the prison doors to let the pot-smokers free and put the corrupt politicians in prison.  Sounds like our streets would be safer under my policy.

Next, there are laws in most states called “blue sky” laws which prohibit politicians from having private meetings in which certain things are discussed.  Let’s expand those laws to make it illegal for any politician or their staff or agents to discuss anything having to do with their office or their powers in secret.  All meetings and discussions must be in public and must be taped.  Other than meetings with each other (two senators, for example).  In other words, no more meetings with lobbyists.  Period. 

The politicians claim that they need these secret meetings because they get information about certain problems from industry insiders.  I believe they have secret meetings to keep the public from seeing the wheelbarrows full of cash being delivered to the politicians’ offices and homes, and other corrupt reasons(Cheney meeting with his oil friends and the maps of Iraq to disucss U.S. oil policy).  But even if they can come up with lame excuses, the need to end corruption and the appearance of corruption requires any such meetings be in public, be videotaped, and available to the public to watch and/or download by internet.  No more secret meetings, no more taking money from lobbyists and businesses.  It ends.

Third, U.S. Out of Israel.  Give them one year to resolve their problems (on top of the 60 they’ve already had).  If they can’t find a way to live in peace, they will have to leave.  If they want to stay despite the problems, that’s OK too but they will have to work it out on their own nickel.  No more money from the U.S. working people to support Israel. 

Like all lobbyists, it seems that (1) the Israeli lobbyists offer bribes to politicians to vote to give my money to Israel; (2) the politicians give my money to Israel; (3) some of that money is funneled back to pay the lobbyists, and for them to use as “expenses”; and (4) the lobbyists offer more bribes to politicians to vote to give more of my money of Israel.  I’m tired of having my money taken from me under the threat of imprisonment and given to support this corrupt system. 

And finally, for the catastrophic claims that Israel cannot exist unless the U.S. taxpayers give them billions of dollars every year:  I’d say the people of Israel should pack their bags because it is not the responsibility of U.S. working men and women to prop up their country.  They’ve had 60 years to work things out.  Either live with it or get out, but don’t keep taking my money, and don’t keep bribing my politicians to betray me.

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By jim70, October 10, 2007 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

#105982 by lilmamzer
What about black people? Lazy and like to eat watermelon, but good at dancing and running fast?

——————————————————————————
you are talking race, i am not. the jews are not a race. they are a belief structure. i can convert to being jewish and if i were to do so, my children born after i had converted would be considered jewish by default. no matter how much i like chinese food, i cannot convert to being a chinese person. stop being a racist for a change.

congratulations, your true colors are shining through. now get back out there and deny some people clean water and electricity, it seems to improve the mood of your people.

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By lilmamzer, October 10, 2007 at 8:52 am Link to this comment

#105954 by jim70

if there is anything that the jews are all for, its high profits

What about black people? Lazy and like to eat watermelon, but good at dancing and running fast?

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By lilmamzer, October 10, 2007 at 8:30 am Link to this comment

#105954 by jim70

if there is anything that the jews are all for, its high profits

TruthDig “Progressive” leftist bigotry is alive and well.

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By jim70, October 10, 2007 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

and the jews wonder why nobody likes them. really. it cracks me up. if we treated our minorities around here like the jews treated the Palestinians, we would be regarded as the Worst People In The World and we would be shunned by the rest of the world. and deservedly so.

the jewish apartheid against the Palestinians reminds me of something that i learned in business school, who was the #1 treading partner of the Republic of South Africa during the apartheid? Israel of course. every other democracy had a trade embargo or tariffs against the RSA. not the jews. who owned the majority stakes in the major privately held companies in the RSA? jews and israeli interests of course. look it up for yourself. my African American international law professor was all over this one. the jews took advantage and fostered a policy of veritable slave labor and restrictions against minorities owning land through lobbying of the government and the bribing of politicians. sound familiar? slave labor makes for high profits and if there is anything that the jews are all for, its high profits.

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By weather, October 9, 2007 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Happy Birthday Israel

Just think it only took you less than 50 years to establish a Global resentment that nears its tipping point.
Good job, you must be proud, but keep right on lying to yourselves and then to everyone else, its what you do best.

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By ender, October 9, 2007 at 5:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So lilmamzer…you put the interest of Israel above that of the US.  Are you and Israeli citizen, or just a traitor?

Israelis have the land for peace debate in Israel, but such is the power of the Israeli lobby and media that we cannot have that same debate amongst our own politicians.

Divorce my arse.  It is past time that ALL monetary and military support for the terroist state of Israel is stopped, and that apartheid state respond to the more than 100 UN resolutions that have been passed against it.

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By cyrena, October 9, 2007 at 5:00 am Link to this comment

#105681 by Akira_Maritias

•  By the way, if you feel the need to respond to my posts, lilmamzer, respond to the whole thing. Don’t nitpick to make it look like I’m a moron. If that’s all that you’ve got to make you look good, then you need to study Israel a bit more…and I don’t mean go to the New York Times or Wikipedia

Akira,

This is just a (hopeful) word that may save you some aggravation. This (that you’ve mentioned above) is standard operating procedure for lilmamzer. He/she is like a horrible cancer on this thread/site for any article that deals with the crimes of Israel. We’re talking about a raving lunatic here, in lilmamzer. The nitpicking and cherry-picking is standard practice, to target whichever victim he/she is pouncing on, at any given time. Been that way for months. New posters, (or infrequent posters) come under immediate attack, (with these tactics) and so attempting a rational or intellectual argument with lilmamzer on anything to do with Israel, is really a waste of time.

So many of us have extended the benefit of the doubt, only to be attacked by this incurably irrational individual. It’s a trap. So, while there are still those who think they they might ‘get through’….it’s never gonna happen. Lilmamzer is committed to his/her very hateful agenda. I put him/her in the same category as Hitler. It’s never gonna change.

Best advice…ignore, ignore, ignore….anything that comes with this name on it. (he or she also posts under various aliases, but if you see this particular name, you can know it isn’t worth your time or attention).

Hope this saves you some grief.

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By Jacko, October 9, 2007 at 4:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Seems a lot of the correspondents here forget that during the ‘cold war’ Israel was the only pro-western country in the area. Thus strategically Israel was an extremely useful ally to the US.
It is still regarded as the only stable country in the region, and it is certainly the only democracy. The Soviets were active in the UAR and British influence was on the wane in the region.
Why should not the pro-Israel lobby be active? As the author of the essay states this is a perfectly legitimate activity.
I understand that for many years the US supported certain non-democratic regimes in Southern America and elsewhere. Why no book about the perfidiousness of supporting those countries?
The Palestinian “government” still refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist and intend to drive all the Jews into the sea. Why should not the Israeli lobbyists be active when their country is under threat from neighbours such as Syria and Iran, let alone Palestine (which used to Jordan, but the Jordanians relinquished it as the Palestinian population was ungovernable). Note also that Egypt did not want Gaza returned either.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 9, 2007 at 3:49 am Link to this comment

I’m sorry, lilmamzer. I suppose that I need to elaborate, for those of us that feel the need to make this a bout of extremism.

I see no need for military support of Israel. Did you read the article? That is the support that I spoke of. But I suppose that you WANT to invade Iran because Israel says so? Why not; we’re in Afghanistan and Iraq…hell, let’s just fight ALL of the middle east. So long as it pleases Israel, we might as well crawl on our hands and knees in a desert of broken glass. It makes SO much sense.

By the way, if you feel the need to respond to my posts, lilmamzer, respond to the whole thing. Don’t nitpick to make it look like I’m a moron. If that’s all that you’ve got to make you look good, then you need to study Israel a bit more…and I don’t mean go to the New York Times or Wikipedia.

Of course, -I- am the number one reason why this country is going to hell. If -I- leave, everything will change! There would be no war! You, sir, are a moron. I threw Russia out there because I love Russia, but I would gladly go to Australia as well. I bet you have a problem with the Aussies, though; not enough support of Israel, and certainly not enough support of America! Terrorism, I say!

lil’mamzer’ indeed. I’m done here; feel free to call Israel totally awesome.

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By lilmamzer, October 9, 2007 at 3:36 am Link to this comment

#105625 by loveinatub

“the United States has openly committed itself to only supporting Israel while shunning Arabs in the region”

Of all the stupid things in your post, this is your jewel in the crown.

Congratulations. You have performed a public self-humiliation.

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By lilmamzer, October 9, 2007 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

#105573 by Akira_Maritias

I see no reason for such support of Israel

You are myopic and way out of the mainstream of American sentiment
========================

...not when it does nothing but cause suffering

And that is all Israel does as a nation, case closed, as far as you are concerned? see comment above….....
=======================

...I think that I will find a new country to live in…but if this must go on, I might have to go to Russia

Now you’re getting somewhere. I think that would be a good fit - you in Russia, where pogroms, xenophobia, political repression, and conspiracy theories are deeply embedded in the national psyche. The sooner you leave these shores the better. Ciao.

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By michael krug, October 9, 2007 at 2:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The relationship between the US and Israel is complex and shouldn’t be reduced to the simplistic myth that the US is a slow, lumbering, bull; that’s being pulled around by the nose by a super-smart fox. Reality, as usual, is less comforting.

The relationship between the two countries is perceived by the elites of both states as being mutually beneficial, that’s why it’s lasted so long and has become deeper over time.

First I don’t believe that Israel ‘pushes the United States around’ line. This is just an excuse, or get out clause, one can conviniently use when things go badly wrong for the US. Blame it on Israel! They made us do it! We are really innocents in the world! Those Jews are just so damn sophisticated!

The great bull likes people to think the clever fox is pulling it around. This isn’t true. It is a myth which once again is mutually beneficial to both parties, as it obscures, diverts and hides the true nature of the relationship.

It is not only the United States that pays a high price for its relationship to Israel. Israel pays a price too, strange as it may seem to many. One could argue that Israel could have come to a compromise, an accomodation, with its Arab neighbours, could have become an integreted part of the Middle-East, if it had developed an independent foreign policy and not been so closely identified with US strategic interests in the region.

I think one can say that this relationship has had one dire consequence, it has strengthened those forces in both countries that have chosen to rely more and more on the use of military force to solve various ‘problems’ in the Middle-East.

Personally, I believe this tendency, isn’t really in the longterm interests of the United States or Israel, and certaninly not in the interests of the Arabs who suffer most directly from US/Israeli policies and actions. But, that, is anothr story.

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By loveinatub, October 8, 2007 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment

I was raised as a jew and while I support Israel’s right to exist, I don’t support the Israeli lobby in the United States. I believe the Israeli lobby has hijacked United States foreign policy and as a result the United States can no longer act as a neutral body when trying to facilitate the “peace process” in the Middle East. Ever since Carter was able to broker a peace agreement between Egypt and Israel, the United States has openly committed itself to only supporting Israel while shunning Arabs in the region. I don’t support the Israeli lobby in the United States and I don’t feel the United States should be subsidizing the state of Israel. There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as the United States gives Israel cart blanche to do whatever it wants.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 8, 2007 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

Remember, so long as America is proudly swaying to the whims of religion, it doesn’t matter what is good for the people; all that matters is keeping the holy land safe. Forget that it borderlines on terrorism, dammit!

I see no reason for such support of Israel…not when it does nothing but cause suffering. If they urge us to war, and we really do go to war…I think that I will find a new country to live in. I love my homeland…but if this must go on, I might have to go to Russia…

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By lilmamzer, October 8, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

It’s way past time for America and Israel to get a divorce.

Yeah, that’ll happen when the US severs ties to Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and other like-minded Western democracies. Until then, you’ll always have the Jews to kick around.
==================

the radical Israelist movement has destroyed and bankrupted America

That’s a good one.

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