To Gerard:
Thank you for your thoughtful response but I do not use the word ‘insane’ frivolously. I have read deeply on the subject for many years. Probably the most influential book was a small volume by C.S. Blumel, a psychiatrist, who based his findings on numerous cases of politicians he had analyzed in the 1930’s. Blumel’s conclusion was that the pursuit of political power is a psychotic endeavor. I was helped to arrive at my own conclusion by thinking of what it is that a candidate for higher office is saying in effect when sh/e proposed his candidacy. I believe what they are saying is that ‘I am capable of making life and death decisions for 300 million people.’ I think if a somewhat sane person was asked to do this sh/e would fall on his knees and begged to be excused. Instead, we witness these candidates campaigning with gusto….
what are we to conclude.

To Gerard:
Thank you for your thoughtful response but I do not use the word ‘insane’ frivolously. I have read deeply on the subject for many years. Probably the most influential book was a small volume by C.S. Blumel, a psychiatrist, who based his findings on numerous cases of politicians he had analyzed in the 1930’s. Blumel’s conclusion was that the pursuit of political power is a psychotic endeavor. I was helped to arrive at my own conclusion by thinking of what it is that a candidate for higher office is saying in effect when sh/e proposed his candidacy. I believe what they are saying is that ‘I am capable of making life and death decisions for 300 million people.’ I think if a somewhat sane person was asked to do this sh/e would fall on his knees and begged to be excused. Instead, we witness these candidates campaigning with gusto….
what are we to conclude.

Ed Romano:  Use of the diagnostic word “insane” occurs over and over applied to politicians and other decision-makers.  Though it has no exact meaning in such contexts, it does describe the user’s opinions.  I have used it over and over to express anger and disdain for people whose behavior I loathe. We need a precise definition of “insanity” when it is used regarding political behavior, but I don’t think there is one.
  This is especially regrettable when the evidence of irrational behavior is so common among national leaders. As of now, we risk sucking all the meaning out of the word by overuse.  As political behavior becomes ever more irrational, we need to discipline ourselves, IMO, and spell out specifically what is “insane” or “irrational,” and why.  And at the same time point out why, even though wildly counter-productive and disastrous behavior is literally insane, most people accept such behavior as natural, acceptable, even laudable under certain circumstances of which they approve.
  In order to prevent escalating irrationality, we need to make ourselves more aware of just what we are talking about, what causes it, why it is acceptable under certain circumstances and not under others. In other words, a kind of moral or psychological sliding scale should become “common knowledge” in somehwat the same way that the Ten Commandments and similar rules have been very widely “adopted” as standards, vague and ineffectual though they are in general.  Or the Golden Rule. (No doubt we would all be worse without them.)
  Awareness of the need for some-such standards is probably even now gradually working its way to the surface of world affairs, appearing recently in the worldwide increasing consciousness of “non-violence” etc.  We may be seeing the beginnings of an international code of honor as intercommunication develops more and more rapidly. One can hope, anyway.

To M. Henri, I understand your point, but I also think the utter madness of modern governments ,and many the loonies in charge of them,  IS or should be the topic.
I found the quote you asked about by Dulles by typing into the search engine…..Winston Churchill urges truman to use atom bomb on Russia…..A menu comes up.
Scroll down to The Secret History of The Atomic Bomb…The scroll down to A U.N. Project…You’ll find it there…..After the first bomb was dropped he evidently had an OOPs! moment and urged Truman not to do it again. I’m sure you know Truman’s reaction when he recieved the news that Hiroshima had been leveled. He was aboard a war ship at the time. There is a photo of him doing a little jig on deck. He said,“This is the greatest thing in the world “. Even if the man thought that using the bomb was necessary to bring the war to an end….a conclusion that is highly doubtful… to actually exhibit glee when 100,000 people had just been fried on your order should make any sane person’s blood run cold.  Ed R

Well, Ed, it may look as if we’re getting off topic, but before anyone complains too loudly, they might want to consider that Korea - North or South - can hardly be discussed without touching upon Japan (and vice-versa) and none of the above without touching on China. With regard to the quote from the ineffable John Foster Dulles (can you provide a source ?) on keeping Japan in the war long enough to drop A-bombs on the country, so as to send a signal to the rest of the world (read: the Soviets), you might find Professor Hasegawa Tsuyoshi’s recent Japan Focus article entitled «The Atomic Bombs and the Soviet Invasion: What Drove Japan’s Decision to Surrender?» (http://japanfocus.org/-Tsuyoshi-Hasegawa/2501) pertinent. More generally, readers interested in East Asia, not least Korea, will find the journal Japan Focus (http://www.japanfocus.org/) an invaluable source….

Henri

To M. Henri, I could not find infro concerning Churchill urging Truman to use the bomb on Russis. ...Did find a reference to him urging the construction of an Anthrax Bomb…..He also urged Truman to use the bomb on Japan as a warning to Russia which would help to “constrain Russian expanmsion.” This idea was seconded by Truman…Also, a quote from John Foster Dulles when it was feared that Japan might surrendcer before we could we could drop the bombs on them…..” We must keep Japan in the war for another 3 months (so) we can use the bomb on their cities. We will end this was with the naked fear of all the people of the world, who will then bow to our will.”

M. Henri, Thank you. I don’t have a source for the Atom Bomb quote.I read it many years ago….before there was an internet. Of course, it is possible that is something floated by someone who had in for Churchill, but from everything I ever read about him it sounds to me like something he would advocate.  Ed R

Ed, there’s a great deal of apocrypha floating ‘round on the internet - and no small amount on this particular forum - so let me here post a link which details the source for the Churchill quote in my posting above : http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHU407A.html ....

Henri

To M Henri, Re Churchill. There are a number of people who hold him in high regard. I wasn’t aware of the poison gas statement. But I’m not surprised. At the end of WW11 he urged Harry Truman to drop atomic bombs on Russia before they had a chance to develop those weapons themselves. This was a strategy formulated by the Bush administration when it devised a policy that said we could attack a neutral nation even if they had not evinced any hosility towards us.The policy could be invoked if we thought that nation might pose some threat, imagined or otherwise, in the future.  Ed R

Cliff, good that we got that straightened out !...

Henri

Thanks

I see that we are in agreement.  I thought that was what you meant and I just wanted to be sure I understood properly.

Cliff, you may want to note my use of quotation marks around the word «know» in the passage you cite «... when it comes to North Korea, however, everybody «knows» what to think about the country….» ; my point being that much of what everyone «knows» about that country is false, just as is much of what everyone «knows» about Israel and Palestine - or Iran or Syria or Libya, etc, etc. Of course, the word «everyone» here should also be in quotes ; it refers to the general public in North Armerica and Europe which receives its «information» via the corporate media. To reply to your rhetorical question, no, of course the people concerned - the population of Mandate Palestine - was never allowed to vote on UNO General Assembly Resolution 181 ; nor had they been allowed to vote on the League of Nation Resolution that established that «Mandate» (as well as Mandate Mesopotamia and Mandate Syria). The leaders of the Great Powers of the time (1920), unlike their latter-day counterparts, did not feel constrained to contrive elections to ratify, post hoc, their decisions regarding the lives and properties of other peoples ; it sufficed to come to an agreement, which could be imposed by military force. (Winston Churchill’s infamous War Office memo of 12 May 1919 to the effect that «I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. ...» dates from the period and refers to the gassing of insufficiently «pacified» Arabs in the so-called Mesopotamia Mandate, i e, mainly present day Iraq. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose, as a French diplomat is said to have remarked about the League of Nation Mandates….)

Henri

A satire is one thing.  An over-the-top caricature is another.  It becomes doubly harmful when it reinforces already established amd very limited negative views about a really tragic situation and trapped people suffering great wrongs. Nations like North Korea need sympathetic help (admittedly a very difficult undertaking) but it is certain that the first step toward assistance is away from radical caricature. To promote such a book is an iindication of total lack of concern for desperately afflicted people. Why promote that kind of mockery?

By M Henri Day, February 5 at 8:15 am

“The difference in impact between that Mr Uris’ work had when it appeared and that which Mr Johnson’s oeuvre may (or may not) have will most likely have more to do with the fact that in the former case, attitudes with respect to Israelis and Palestinians in the United States were, if not absolutely, at least to a much larger degree, «up for grabs» ; when it comes to North Korea, however, everybody «knows» what to think about the country….”

Interesting M Henri Day.  What is it that everybody knows what to think about the Country of North Korea?

And what did the American people know about the Palestinian side of the story when the United Nations proposed the partition?

I don’t recall the U S people getting to vote on whether the U S should have recognized the New Nation Israel.  Seems to me the decision to recognize the New Nation Israel came without the UN Partition Plan being ratified by UN members.

As a matter of fact was the new Nation Israel ever legally approved by the UN?  I’m not arguing that it is not now defacto, I’m curious as to whether the Partition was ever legally ratified?

I’m thinking that Israel never recognized any borders because the plan of the Zionist organization formulated in 1907 was to establish the borders as stated “from the Litiani River in (Now Lebanon) to the (Now Suez) in Egypt, to the Euphrates in (Now Iraq) to the empty Quarter in (Now Saudi Arabia).

Did the Palestinians get to vote on the Partition?

Furthermore, the Zionist plan at that time was to cleanse the new country of all Arabs.

In 1937 Ben Gurion reiterated that plan.

My point is that the events succeeding the 1947 Resolution were never a result of “people not knowing”, it was a conspiracy of the plan.

Keep in mind that the plan has not yet been fulfilled, those borders planned in 1907 have yet to be realized.

Could this be the reason for the continued spreading of the occupation and destruction of the Palestinian Homeland? And the fact that no treaty was ever realized ? - and probably never will be.  Once all the Palestinians are moved out or killed there will be no need for a treaty.

Did you know the facts of what I have just stated?  Do you accept it as being truth?  Have you read Benny Morris’ history on this subject?

My point is that we may not know all the particulars which are important in framing our beliefs.

Please.  The Da Vinci Code is hardly in the same class as mighty blimps like Exodus.

They just don’t make them like they used to.

As for the influence of books, I’m with Mayor Walker.

«But hasn’t this event proved a recipe for disaster ?» Yes, indeed, Ed ; that is why the Palestinians refer to the creation of the state of Israel on 78 % of the territory of Mandate Palestine in 1948 (and its aftermath) as the «Nakba» (Disaster)....

Henri

I don’t get the chance to tell this tale very often. So please bear with me. When I was about sixteen in the late forties I didn’t have a clue which way was up poilitically. But when the people living in Palestine had their homes and land taken away from the and given to…mainly Jewish immigrants…I remember wondering how anyone thought they could get away with this unscathed. I have no prejudice against any of these people. But hasn’t this event proved a recipe for disaster ?  Ed R

I think, Anarcissie, that you underestimate the effect of belles lettres - if, in fact, Exodus can be placed in that category. And people still seem to read «big, fat, soggy blockbuster novels» - remember The Da Vinci Code, one of the best examples of poor writing I’ve yet seen (although I must admit I have no idea how many can be said to have «believed in» it) ? But you are certainly correct in that it would be extremely difficult to do a scientific study of the matter - not least because of the attitude changes that have taken place since Mr Uris’ work was published in 1958 and which, I submit, are in part a result of that work and others like it….

The difference in impact between that Mr Uris’ work had when it appeared and that which Mr Johnson’s oeuvre may (or may not) have will most likely have more to do with the fact that in the former case, attitudes with respect to Israelis and Palestinians in the United States were, if not absolutely, at least to a much larger degree, «up for grabs» ; when it comes to North Korea, however, everybody «knows» what to think about the country….

Henri

M Henri Day, February 4 at 8:06 am:

‘... Let me adduce one which is perhaps even more salient - how many people in the United States have not created their image of Israel and Palestine on the basis of Leon Uris’ novel from 1958, Exodus ? ...’

A few hundred thousand, I would guess, although we can’t know unless someone does a scientific, double-blinded etc. study of people’s attitudes to Israel-Palestine before and after reading Exodus.  In any case, Exodus came out back in the day when people wrote and read and believed in big, fat, soggy blockbuster novels.  That time has passed away, and this book is not going to make the glamorous rounds Exodus did.

You are right, though, in saying Truthdig could have found a better reviewer.  Better yet, it could have found a better author, going by the evidence presented.

By gerard, February 3 at 4:12 pm

“Cliff Carson—“... but we never do it.”  In a sense, that makes us more reprehensible than they, doesn’t it?  They can’t, whereas we can, but we don’t.”

That was exactly my point gerard.

We the people of America don’t have to be complicit in the murder that the United States Government does every single day and have done for years on end.

We the people could kick these War Criminals out.  Why we don’t is beyond my understanding.

Just think of the death and destruction the U S has committed (millions of people) and yet we have our criminals even today propagandizing to gin up enough public support to invade two more of the seven countries we planned to invade back in 1991.

Today on the news, Obama spoke for his war crowd as they beat the war drums to invade Syria and Iran.

Who on here thinks either of those Nations would ever initiate a preventative invasion of the United States?

Who on here thinks the United States is the instigator of the unrest in Syria?

Anarcissie, I suggest that karen lee’s example of a certain writer’s «historical fiction» concerning Cuba shows that what is written in that form does, indeed, matter for the general public’s view of the setting in which the action takes place. Let me adduce one which is perhaps even more salient - how many people in the United States have not created their image of Israel and Palestine on the basis of Leon Uris’ novel from 1958, Exodus ? As karen lee pointed out, Truth Dig could and should have done a better job in choosing reviewers….

Henri

Trashy stuff like this can be therapeutic to some. Fact or fiction, it doesn’t matter. Most people seem to get their understanding of the world from TV, Hollywood and government fiction anyway. By all means, when you can’t feel good about your own country, bash other nations. It brings easy and quick relief.

The book being reviewed is ostensibly fiction, so maybe it doesn’t matter whether the author actually knows anything about North Korea or not.

Cliff Carson—“... but we never do it.”  In a sense, that makes us more reprehensible than they, doesn’t it?  They can’t, whereas we can, but we don’t.

Yes Gerard

I would not want to be a peasant in North Korea. 

They will pay for the sins of their leaders - just as we do here.

But at least here in America we could get out from under our yoke.  We get a chance to vote our criminals out every four years - but we never do it.

M Henri Day: Sad to say, bashing North Korea is a parlor sport in the U.S. The smallness of it, the danagerous isolation, the abusive, benighted government, the poverty—my take on it is that that lost, desperate dictatorship is much more to be pitied than censured. Above all, it needs to be drawn back into the human family if at all possible—although certain aspects of the human family itself are scarcely more admirable at the present moment.

Well, it must admitted that to bash North Korea in the United States takes extraordinary courage. Both the author and the reviewer, who of course have spent much time in that country and know it intimately, are to be congratulated….

Henri

“...where the story, the fabrication, is truer than truth.”  Really?

Sounds like this novel might well be balanced by a reading of some of Erich Weingartner’s dedicated work
in North Korea. There is already more than enough scorn circulating in the U.S. regarding that unfortunate “kingdom.”