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Tragedy Repeats Itself

Posted on Dec 28, 2008
Waltz with Bashir

By Sheerly Avni

(Page 2)

The same questions plagued him as he searched for his own memories of the Palestinian massacre, and as he spoke with soldiers who had been nearby. “What I learned was that people had all the elements, but they found it too complicated to put it together in one frame, because mass murder is not in our system. … You don’t think that things like that are happening just around the corner, even if you are participating in a war.”

In part, this is a particularly Jewish/Israeli problem, one which Folman does not shy away from: Is a culture that has experienced genocide more likely to recognize it the next time it appears? Not necessarily, says Folman, speaking personally again. “For us who grew up in those kinds of families, are we more ready to listen to those kinds of stories? On the contrary, I think it is harder. The Holocaust was like a one-time experience in the history of humankind for us. We are not ready for anything else.”

But Folman is adamant in insisting that there are no easy comparisons to be made between the Nazi murder of the Jews and the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla. “There is no comparison, there can be no comparison. But mass murder is mass murder, and it is something that the imagination cannot believe or accept, even while it is happening.” 

War is horror beyond human comprehension: This is the theme of “Waltz With Bashir. “This film,” insisted Folman, “could have been made by an ex-American soldier in Vietnam, a Russian in Afghanistan, an American today in Iraq. … It could have been made by anyone who wakes up one morning and finds himself hundreds of kilometers away from home, in a remote city that has nothing to do with him or his life, nothing whatsoever. He doesn’t know what he’s doing there, he is terrified, and he has no clue.”

Asked if working on the film had turned him into a pacifist, Folman answered: “For that I didn’t need to make a movie. I became a pacifist by my second day in Lebanon.”

Click here to see clips from “Waltz With Bashir.”

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By Sepharad, January 7, 2009 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sorry Cyrena; there is no “Back off!” in my DNA, and there’s not a sliver of light between you and Volktruther on the topic of the history of Palestine and Israel, re which I suspect you are both about equally informed.  There are any number of pacifist Jews in and out of Israel and I’ve been among them—when it made sense. Hamas so far has succeeded in derailing economic progress on the West Bank and Syria and Israel circuitous peace rapprochements—quite apart for firing longer-range rockets all over the south of Israel. But if the IDF manages to significantly damage the 20,000-strong Hamas fighters and their ability to launch increasingly longrange rockets. They launch and fight (wearing civvies except for hurried photo-ops, except for the leaders who hide underground) among large population areas, making it exceedingly difficult for IDF to hold down civilian casualty rate. If Hamas is sufficiently weakened, progress toward peace and a decent life for the Palestinians in their own state with their own army (I believe that is important so they can keep the Islamists down in their own society) can move slowly forward. If Livni and Barak achieve that then it’s not likely Israelis will elect Netanyahu, who would do nothing for peace.

Obama is not a fool, not a monster, and I’m sure his influence will lend itself to a better life for the Palestinians. Which, of course, means peace for Israel too.

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By cyrena, January 7, 2009 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, January 6 at 10:28 pm

•  “Folk & Cyrena, Ari Folman became a pacifist after a couple days in Lebanon, but I seriously doubt he’d be willing to be in the same room with either of you.”
How do you even BEGIN to qualify this statement? First off, Folktruther and I have about ZERO in common in any political ideology.
*I* AM pretty much about as pacifist as they come, and NOTHING that I have said here (which doesn’t even include a reference to Ari Folman) would logically prompt such a comment from you or anyone else. That is unless you just wanted to voice a bitchy comment for no apparent reason.
I am CLEARLY and expertly informed on the history of which you speak, and on International Law as well. So, I just call ‘em like the whole world is finally seeing ‘em, including sane Jews who aren’t dragging the Myth of the prepetually persecuted around with them as an excuse to commit Crimes Against Humanity.
Isreal is involved in a Genocidal operation and has been for decades. That doesn’t have a thing to do with whether or not Ari Folman became a pacifist. He’s to be congratulated like any other Human Being who sees the light. We already KNOW that violence accomplishes absolutely nothing other than more violence.

Now what that has to do with us being in the same room together seems to matter only to YOU, and you haven’t bothered to explain why.  That makes you sound as artificial as the current state of Israel.

So BACK OFF!! If you have a problem with some FACT that I’ve posted in terms of Israel, then rebutt it. Otherwise…thou doest protest too much…which is pretty standard for you types who try to justify what is illegal for every one else in the world.

You’ll never get a pacifist or anybody with any commitment to the rule of law to agree with any justification that you have for Israel’s murdering history.

As for not being in the same room with Ari, I suspect I’ll live. He’s not the only pacifist Jew on the globe. I know plenty.

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By Sepharad, January 7, 2009 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nozferatu—Truth and facts (as long as you are inclusive, i.e. honest about amassing facts that support other arguments than your own so you get a good look at the whole picture) are all that stand between us and enemies of the humane human spirit. Knowing facts does not guarantee making the world a better place, in the spirit of tikkun olam, but NOT knowing how to separate fact from fantasy will definitely guarantee making the world worse in every imaginable way.

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By Nozferatu, January 7, 2009 at 12:49 am Link to this comment


I’m afraid it’s the truth and the facts that activate zionist propoganda…it’s your last defense and you use it well.

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By Sepharad, January 6, 2009 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m eager to see Ari Folman’s “Waltz with Bashir”—have read enough about it for ‘eager’ to apply because I believe he’s telling the truth about war and what happens to the soldiers who have to fight them. That said, Jim Yell says it all: “There is blame on both sides, but my sympathy rests with the Jews.”

Folk & Cyrena, Ari Folman became a pacifist after a couple days in Lebanon, but I seriously doubt he’d be willing to be in the same room with either of you. Many many IDF soldiers are repelled by killing even when it is undeniably necessary. Try to think of Jews as a small endangered species and you’ll understand why we are so fiercely protective. But a large part of Judaism is trying to be righteous even in the midst of war. (Would you too sit there and let, say, Canadians launch rockets into your neighborhood for months, for years, and not fight back? I hope some day you get a sample of the reality Israelis live with on a daily basis. 

Mark Bernadiner—Finally someone who knows and remembers history. Don’t expect the closed minds of viciously prejudiced truthdiggers to appreciate the information: they “know” only what they want to believe, and facts make them very uncomfortable so expect to be targeted as a purveyor of Zionist propaganda. That happens to me all the time. The only reason I still post is that once in a while, someone might actually think about some bit of information that may make them question their screwy ideas.  My husband—who is radically leftwing but, over the years, has done his own research on Israel and has come to understand precisely (he’s a cience kind of guy and HAS to know absolutely every last thing on a subject) how things have developed in that conmplicated part of the world. Now, he keeps telling me I’m wasting my time given the wingnut mentalities of many of the diggers he’s read over my shoulder, but I do it anyway. Once in awhile, someone will do their own homework on an assertion I’ve made, find it based on truth and runs with it. But that is rare.

The Mufti was a real piece of work. I’ve read a lot about him as a private person as well as political one, and concluded he may be one of history’s most truly evil men, doing permanent, perhaps irremediable damage to any hope of the Palestinians and Jews ever getting on the same page. I have a book containing memories and essays on Haj Amin by various people, putting everything into context. Unortunately I’m deep in the New Mexico desert with husband, two horses, and only 30-40 books from my library so I can’t provide cites, but will try to on another thread when I get back in late February or March. Please keep posting.

Some of you seem to think Jews are so self-absorbed that they think only they suffered in WWII. Not true. 20 million Russians, soldiers and civilians, died along with the gypsies, political prisoners, communists, homosexuals, and 6 million Jews. In fact, the early experiments on zyclon B as a killing method were tested on a bunch of captive Russian soldiers. Some of you think we have no reason to fight Islamofascists—a real word in the real world. That fine journalist, Oriana Fallaci, after a lifetime battling totalitarian regimes of every sort, losing her husband to the Greek colonels, took the measure of Islamofascism and has written several excellent books on her observations—Inshallah, Rage and Pride, and Force of Reason—only to be dubbed a pariah by many of her former leftist fans, just as some of you are turning on Obama because he is not in lockstep with your stunted view of the world.
Finally, some of you think Israelis don’t really want peace with the Palestinians. I don’t know how you can be so misinformed. Wanting peace and defending oneself are not mutually exclusive. Mark Bernadiner provided you with good information. Use it.

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By Folktruther, January 5, 2009 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

It is pieces like these that justify Truthdig’s existence.  And Folmnan’s.  Nevertheness some comments need to be made.

Folman states there is no easy comparison between the Nazi murders of the Jews (and leftists, Romas, etc) and the Israeli murders of the Palestinians.

Of course there is.  The Nazi’s murder millions and the Israeli’s murdered thousands. So far.  An easy comparison.  And an important one, becuase there are millions of Palestinians who are now being threatened with massacre.

Folman states that he was a ‘pacifist’ by his second day in Lebonon.  While he was firing flares to help the murder squads see at night to kill every man, womna and child in the camps.  Really, a pacifist?

I remember a war crimes trial of a German officer by the Soviets after WW 2, The high ranking officer indignantly denied that he was a war criminal.  He worked in a death camp, true,  but he didn’t kill anyone.  He was the paymaster, and supervised the paying of the German staff who actually did the killing.

He did not argue that he was actually a pacifist, but I suppose he could have.  For some reason the Soviets were not imprressed.  They shot him.

Of course Folman was a soldier, not an officer, and so did not assumer responsibility for the mass murder.  But his idea of a pacifist differs from mine.

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By matti, January 3, 2009 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Since this comment thread and this have touch a bit upon the Nazi-crime to “Israeli” crime connections, I thought I might remind everyone that the Nazi-crimes tend to be over-simplified (to a prejudicial degree some would say). The focus is on the Death Camps (would you rather be worked to death over several brutal years supporting the evil machinery of your oppressor or Zyclon B’d in a few moments after a short and brutally dehuminizing captivity?) and on the Jews (the communists, gays, dissenters, questioners, other “foreigners” and plain old committers of street crime -though they form a half equal to the Jews’ in death toll- are sent down the Memory Hole)

Even the “Jews got it worst” or the “It was mainly about the Jews” concept is based on perspective more than on objective truth.

Roughly 6 millions Jews -whether self-identified as such or not BTW- appear to have been systematically murdered.

Roughly 2 millions of the Romany people -or “gypsies” of Europe- appear to have been systematically murdered.

Which people “suffered more” depends on whether you see it from a “body count” perspective or a “percentage loss” perspective.

Those 2 millions represented 2/3 of the Romany population at the time.

When people are ONLY identified by what they SELF-identify as, then Nationalism (with a State or without) can end, and peace -true Peace on Earth- can begin.

Not before.


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By Tony Wicher, January 3, 2009 at 11:40 am Link to this comment

By cyrena, January 1 at 2:49 am #

We can only hope that he’ll be able to pull it off. I swear to god I wouldn’t wanna be him right now. I’m willing to maintain a my level of moral and intellectual support, at least for a conditional period of time. Not forever. But for a reasonable period of time.

That’s how I see it. I am reserving judgment for now, but Obama will have to act on the Israel/Palestine conflict this year and when he does we will be able to judge where he really stands.

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By Marko, January 1, 2009 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The quality of Mr. Bernadiner thought above speaks for itself, and is perhaps best heralded by his use of the manufactured nonsense term “Islamofascist”. Would that the crimes of the “Christofascists” in the 20th Century alone could be so neatly even partially encapsulated. Also intriguing is the fact that, violently displaced from the original homelands in Europe, so much of Zionist thought became focused on hatred for the people of the lands on which they were imposed, rather than those who committed the original crime against them.
Shall we also exterminate to the last member the Democratic and Republican parties in the US, who denied Jews safe haven in the ‘30s, the Catholic Church which did little to protect them, the members of European political parties who also share responsibility?

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By cyrena, January 1, 2009 at 3:49 am Link to this comment

By boredwell, December 31, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Brava! boredwell.

I agree that Obama must cut Israel’s purse strings, and that he must do it now.

Of course he’s also gonna need a serious collection of personal body armor. It’s going to be very, very, tricky…because Israel is actually blocking itself further and further into a corner, like a rabid dog that we’re all threatened by at this point, and so not likely to put up with this any longer.

World opinion is behind him and supported by the International Law as recognized by the rest of the International Community. For President-elect Barack Obama, this is a time in our collective history to convert a crisis into an opportunity, and be successful at it.

We can only hope that he’ll be able to pull it off. I swear to god I wouldn’t wanna be him right now. I’m willing to maintain a my level of moral and intellectual support, at least for a conditional period of time. Not forever. But for a reasonable period of time.

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By Fadel Abdallah, December 31, 2008 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

The good Ari Folman might have all the material he needs to make his next commentary on Israeli terrorism and possibly make a study in contrast between the so-called “Kassam” rockets and Israel’s weapons of mass destruction courtesy of the U.S. and her taxpayers!

Warning! If you’re weak-hearted some pictures in the following link might not suitable for you! side-of-the-story

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By boredwell, December 31, 2008 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

The Zionist terrorist group, Irgun, headed by Meachem Begin, bombed the King David hotel in Jerusalem in 1946. It resulted in breaking the back of the British Mandate of Palestine and paved the way toward the Balfour Declaration creating the State of Israel. Palestine and Hamas are fighting to create their state, too. Israel’s tradition of sotto voce lip service to hegemony can no longer be spin doctored to present them as the lambs fighting the wolves. For 60 years, Israel has succeeded in marginalizing Palestine; it has annexed Gaza; refuses to cede the Golan Heights (despite numerous UN Security Council warnings to hand it over)to Syria; it’s waged wars in Lebanon, fought Egypt. It has starved, murdered and persecuted Palestinians in an effort not to subdue but to annihilate. The recent blockade and embargo of oil; bombing the lifeline of tunnels that bring food and medicine to the beleaguered are reprehensible. Israel punishes the Palestinians’for their will to survive: it wants to pulverize them into submission, enslave them to their will, keep them stateless and classless citizens. This belligerent ethos is systemic to Israel’s leaders’ incorribly anachronistic mindest: they live in the non-progressive, hyper aggressive Past. Worst, they persist in redefining Palestinian terrorism and terrorist acts on Israel to fit their modus operandi and incite their moral wrath. It hasn’t worked! The process of unilateral demonization can no longer hide behind the veil of legitimacy; the pall of an arbitrary described terrorism; or using the political bellwether that Iran possess the threat of nuclear capability. Obama needs to cut Israel’s purse strings. Now. Not later. Israel’s rampant recidivism has got to stop.

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By thebeerdoctor, December 31, 2008 at 2:13 am Link to this comment

From Ariyeh Egozi in Israel Money:
“In 2006 the Israeli Military Industries ended the year with an all time record sum total of $4.2 billion in exports, not counting the several multi-million dollar deals which are already in their final stages.”,7340,L-3338042,00.html

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By cyrena, December 30, 2008 at 3:11 am Link to this comment

This comment from PT on the “Message from Hamas” thread got me thinking, and I suspect it applies here as well as anywhere.

•  “This thing is about Israel and the U.S. trying to kill Palestinians so that they will turn against Hamas and try to overthrow it.  However, the indigenous Palestinian people are not cooperating.”

This part of your comment just provoked a light bulb moment for me. Specifically this…
“…The indigenous Palestinian people are not cooperating.”

That’s what it all boils down to. Israel has (for over 40 years now) expected the Palestinians to “cooperate” in their own slaughter and genocide. Why? Because that’s exactly what THEY did when Hitler and his Nazis were exterminating them.

Yep, as the quote goes, “They marched like dummies to their graves”. With no resistance, (it wouldn’t have done them any good) off they marched, while their neighbors (other Jews included) watched too, and did nothing. Hitler was sure he could get away with it, and at one point, he even referenced the Armenian genocide as an example of how/why he could do the same thing – with the same impunity.

The Zionist mindset says that they have the ‘right’ to do the same to others on the other side of the globe, regardless of the fact that these people had nothing to do with what Hitler did to them in . (I mean, that ‘experience’ is Israel’s entire reason for existing) And, they have managed to do exactly that, for far, far, far longer than Hitler got away with it. And the neighbors, (the rest of the world with few exceptions) have done the same…watched without doing a thing to stop it.

So when the Zionists shout their mantra of ‘never again’ they mean never again, TO THEM! The UN created a whole new foundation of laws and agreements after that episode, with the very same purpose in mind, NEVER AGAIN, to ANY people, for ANY reason. That’s how we got the Geneva Conventions, and the Conventions against Genocide, Torture, as well as the Declaration of UNIVERSAL Human Rights. ISRAEL however, has REFUSED to recognize the EXISTENCE of these Universal Laws. (and NOBODY does torture like Israel does torture).

Israel has violated every single UN resolution and agreement that it has ever deceitfully entered into, and they’ve done it with impunity. No demands for accountability at all from the International Community.  There’s been little done by the Arab nations either, since they’re all dictatorships as well, and continually supported by the US. Egypt is no better than Israel for their part in maintaining their portion of the prison walls that keep the Palestinians locked in, and all humanitarian aid locked out. And Egypt is another so-called US ‘ally.’ (All of our ‘allies’ are real big on torture). In fact, all of our ‘allies’ in the ME are brutal and barbaric dictatorships.

But I digress. My point is that all too often, the tortured become the torturers, and in the case of Israel, the experience of ‘THEIR Holocaust” has been absorbed into their culture as ‘the’ most significant event in THEIR history, and no other ‘history’ is even on their radar. They’ve managed to convince the rest of the world of the same.

So, anytime anyone hears or reads the word ‘Holocaust’, it’s ASSUMED that it’s the genocide of the Jews by Hitler’s Nazis. No one ever thinks immediately of the genocide of the Native Americans by the British, the French, and the Spanish. They don’t think of the genocides of Rwanda or the genocide perpetrated against the ethnic Muslims of Bosnia or the 5 million Africans that were kidnapped and held in involuntary servitude for Centuries. Nobody ever considers that. In fact, it doesn’t even come to mind.

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By Fadel Abdallah, December 29, 2008 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

As a subscriber and donor to “Jewish Voice For Peace” I received a message, part of which is posted below. What a difference between those noble and judicious Jews and the Zionist terrorists running the state of Israel and supported by the ever evil Bush administration!
“The news about the attacks in Gaza is beyond words. “Appalling” doesn’t even come close.”

“U.S.-supplied Israeli F-16 warplanes and Apache helicopters have fired missiles and dropped over 100 tons of bombs on dozens of locations in the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip.  Over 300 people are dead and at least 1,400 more are injured. Many if not most of them are civilians.  Food and medicine were already in short supply in Gaza and all medical facilities have been completely overwhelmed by this onslaught. Access to Gaza has been cut off by Israel.”

“This is the most violent and heartbreaking situation that has happened to the Palestinians in recent history, and it must stop. In addition to calling for protests at Israeli consulates and federal buildings, as well as letters to the U.S. and Israeli governments, Jewish Voice for Peace staff and members are already putting together an aggressive campaign focused on Gaza. And, without a moment to waste, we call for an immediate end to attacks on all civilians.”

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By Fadel Abdallah, December 29, 2008 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

By TAO Walker, December 28 at 12:54 pm #

Between the Israelis’ latest insane idiocy in Gaza, and the looming violent confrontation between Pakistan and India, it sure looks like our tormentors are looking to “burn down the house” (our Mother Earth) that has been the scene of their ten-thousand-year-long orgy of rape, pillage, and murder….their aim, of course being to destroy all evidence (except the ashes) of their cosmic crime.  Unable to actually carry-out physically this “final solution” themselves, these fools must somehow trick some of their more manipulable Human instruments into doing it for them.  Religious and nationalist fanatics are as usual all too ready to act-out their gotterdamerung and armageddon end-of-the-world sick fantasies.
Greetings TAO Walker!

Just wanted to tell you that this untamed two-legged native brother of Palestine finds a great spiritual affinity with and comfort in the wisdom of the untamed two-legged native brothers or sisters of what has become known as America! Though our fate vis-a-vis the marauders-occupiers has not been pleasant, we have too much in common that borders on comfort!

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By Fadel Abdallah, December 29, 2008 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

Despite my anger at, frustration with and hate for the fanatic Zionists terrorists who are running the show in Israel, my feelings are tempered when I hear or read about good and noble Jews like Ari Folman who are trying to help their sickly Jewish brethren to be cured from their bloody psychological sickness.

It’s the hundreds of people like Folman that give me a glimmer of hope that one day the majority of Jews will find peace within themselves worthy of extending it to their victims!

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By Verne Arnold, December 29, 2008 at 4:07 am Link to this comment

@ TAO Walker, December 28 at 12:54 pm;

Oh, you gave me the laugh I so greatly needed. Thanks. What a trip!

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By Fadel Abdallah, December 28, 2008 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

The fanatic Israeli Zionists suffer permanently from two deadly psychological disorders: One is related to the images and stories of the bloody Holocaust perpetrated against some of them by the Nazis; the other is related to the images of the blood they keep shedding among the natives of Palestine! In light of this, their world view is colored by blood. And they need help!

The point is that they are deadly sick and need to be saved from their bloody psychic. So it’s not save for them or the world to live among normal people. For their own salvation, a huge psychiatric complex should be build for them, say in New York, where they might receive constant treatment!

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By Nozferatu, December 28, 2008 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment


Enjoy the pictures:

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By TAO Walker, December 28, 2008 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

Between the Israelis’ latest insane idiocy in Gaza, and the looming violent confrontation between Pakistan and India, it sure looks like our tormentors are looking to “burn down the house” (our Mother Earth) that has been the scene of their ten-thousand-year-long orgy of rape, pillage, and murder….their aim, of course being to destroy all evidence (except the ashes) of their cosmic crime.  Unable to actually carry-out physically this “final solution” themselves, these fools must somehow trick some of their more manipulable Human instruments into doing it for them.  Religious and nationalist fanatics are as usual all too ready to act-out their gotterdamerung and armageddon end-of-the-world sick fantasies.

So it looks like the fuses are lit, tame Two-legged Sisters and Brothers.  The fundamentalists’ favorite nightmarish bloody-wet-dreams may all soon come true. 

Wait a minute!  What if they don’t get their universal death-wish, after all?  What if everybody who had a hand in making it has to spend what’s left of their lives cleaning-up this mega-mess, instead of getting to “....take the easy way out”?

Welcome to Indian Country, Y’all, where the only way out of any man-made hell is just to live through it all together in the Tiyoshpaye Way.  No “grants-of-immunity,” no “presidential pardons,” no “rapture,” no “cavalry-(OR Calvary)-charging-over-the-hill,” not any “weekend-passes,” even.  Sure it’ll take some getting-used-to, but you will get used to it.

Now where in Hell is that fire extinguisher?


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By diamond, December 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

Mark Bernadiner you can list attacks by Palestinians until your fingers can’t type any more. The fact is, if their land and their houses hadn’t been stolen and they hadn’t been massacred first none of those things would have happened. You’re running the usual line: the one that says, ‘The Palestinians are sub-human and the only way to deal with them is to exterminate them.’ Surely you remember where this thinking comes from? It comes from Nazi Germany.This kind of thinking is always the prelude to genocide. If Israel continues down the path of genocide and infanticide that it’s on, it will end in up in ruins, just the way Germany did. The massacre that’s still going on in Gaza is also political. There’s an election in Israel in a couple of months and every party and every politician in Israel has to show that they’re willing to kill, kill and kill again if they expect to be elected. And America funds these people with taxpayer dollars. Billions of them. It takes the concept of blood money to a whole new level. There’s also no way Israel didn’t have America’s permission to attack Gaza and kill all those civilians, so America has blood on its hands -yet again.

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By Jim Yell, December 28, 2008 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As to solution to this on going mess, perhaps the combatants should preview an old movie. I believe it was titled Elena and the story line involved the Greek Communist Revolution. After the guns had been put away a man from rural Greece goes to exact revenge on the horrid little man who murdered his mother and many others.

This was years later and the object of his quest was now a very old man. With the focus one gets from a consuming desire he tracks the man and gains entry into his house, where an innocent young granddaughter lets him in.

Of course this was a fantasy history and the man became overwhelmed by the enormity of what he had contemplated and he realized the cost to his character and sole, put away his gun and left his enemy to live out his life.

It is the great weight of anger and blindness or righteousness that leads into these traps. The moslems can not win by this violence and the jews can not continue to allow radical members of their country to continue to mistreat the moslems, but in truth if a party with a grudge against my group hurls bombs into my home than I would try to kill them. So it doesn’t take two to start an argument, or commit murder.

There is blame on both sides of this issue, but my sympathy rests with the jews.

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By yaz, December 28, 2008 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

all the best to the idf!

very sad, that that must be done, but the criminals of the hamas left no other way out.

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By Mark Bernadiner, December 28, 2008 at 11:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Palestinian muslims crime history

In 1920s-30s, Palestinian Muslims committed massacre of Jews in Jewish land of Palestine murdering thousands of children and civilians.  The murder was organized by the founder and supreme leader of the Arab Higher Committee, Haj Amin al Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, and supported by British Administration of Palestine.  The massacre was, in reality, the Holocaust committed by Palestinian Arabs in compliance with Islamic Koran which demand killing Christians and Jews.

Haj Amin was close friend of Hitler.  In 1941, Haj Amin came to Berlin and visited Hitler.  He brought the Holocaust idea to Hitler.  In 1943, Amin organized Bosnian Muslim battalions in Croatia comprising some twenty thousand men.  The battalions were put in Waffen-SS units, fought Yugoslav partisans in Bosnia; thousands of Serbs, Roma (‘Gypsies’) and Jews hunted down by Haj Amin’s SS troops were killed by those same troops, or they were sent to the Islamic death camp Jasenovac.  After the WWII, the International tribunal declared Haj Amin was crime criminal; however, he escaped prosecution, fled to Egypt and then Palestine where he organized Fatah.  After his death in 1974, Arafat, who was Haj Amin lieutenant, became Fatah commander.  He organized PLO.  PLO and Fatah committed numerous murders around the world killing American and European Christian and Jews.
—September 4, 1972: Munich Olympic’s Massacre—Members of “Black September,” a PLO offshoot, attacked the Israeli Olympic team in their dormitory at the 1972 Munich Olympic Games in Germany. As a result of the hostage-taking and the bungled attempt by the Germans to rescue the prisoners, eleven Israeli athletes and one German policman were killed. This attack prompted Israel to launch “Operation Wrath of God” and “Operation Spring of Youth.” See below for details.
-Oct. 7, 1985: The hijacking of the passenger cruise ship Achille Lauro. Members of the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), led by Abu Abbas, killed Jewish American tourist Leon Klinghoffer. After several days, the hijackers agreed to a deal in which they would release the ship in return for a flight to Tunisia. The Egyptian airliner carrying the hijackers was intercepted by U.S. Navy fighter planes on Oct. 10 and forced it to land at a military base in Italy, where the terrorists were arrested by Italian authorities.
-December 27, 1985: Rome/Vienna Airport Attacks—Abu Nidal’s Fatah - the Revolutionary Council (FRC) staged two attacks in Europe which killed 18 civilians and wounded 140. The terrorists attacked passengers at airports in Rome and Vienna. The FRC claimed these attacks were in response to the October 1st Israeli air raid on Tunis.
The above is only a minuscule part of Palestinian muslims criminal and murderous history; however, it is more than enough to conclude that:

Islamofascist organizations, PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Popular Front of Liberation of Palestine, Fatah etc., must be totally exterminated to last member; other Palestinian muslims must be kicked out of Israel land of Palestine back to the countries of their origin.

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By writerman, December 28, 2008 at 10:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ultra nationalism, in the Israeli variant known as Zionism, is an extraordinarily powerful and dangerous phenomenon, once unleashed. Like an evil version of Pandora’s Box. There’s also a terrible, tragic and perverse, historic irony involved here.

Jews, who have suffered so much at the hands of uncontrolled, rabid, insane, nationalism, have learned nothing and in many respects have become a distorted image of the very forces that once subjugated and almost destroyed them as a people. By trying to wipe out the Palestinians as a people and their culture, Israel is committing a moral crime of truely historic proportions. A crime of such magnitude that it will corrupt Israel from the inside, like a cancer, eating away at the very soul of what it means to be an Israeli and a Jew.

A people who were once prisoners have no become jailers themselves, but instead of throwing open the doors and realeasing everyone, they have discovered that they rather like the role of jailers for a change; only this is a cruel illusion, as both the prisoners and the jailers are inside the walls of the same prison.

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By Thomas Mc, December 28, 2008 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

Israel has become more evil than Nazi Germany.

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