Comic artist Frank Miller’s recent tirade against the Occupy movement gives us a glimpse into the mind of a man made important by an entertainment culture that pushes death, selfishness, uncritical obedience to authority and simplistic notions of good and evil. Guardian columnist Rick Moody has a word for such fare: cryptofascist.
While reading Moody’s insightful analysis of the social and political tones typical of Miller’s work and the Hollywood action scene in general, we might ask ourselves whether or not we prefer to live in a society where barbaric legacies handed down from ancient times are still deemed essential for our survival. —ARK
Rick Moody at The Guardian:
Miller’s hard-right, pro-military point of view is not only accounted for in his own work, but in the larger project of mainstream Hollywood cinema. American movies, in the main, often agree with Frank Miller, that endless war against a ruthless enemy is good, and military service is good, that killing makes you a man, that capitalism must prevail, that if you would just get a job (preferably a corporate job, for all honest work is corporate) you would quit complaining. American movies say these things, but they are more polite about it, lest they should offend. The kind of comic-book-oriented cinema that has afflicted Hollywood for 10 years now, since Spider-Man, has degraded the cinematic art, and has varnished over what was once a humanist form, so Hollywood can do little but repeat the platitudes of the 1%. And yet Hollywood tries still not to offend.
Does that make American cinema cryptofascist? Is “cryptofascist” a word that you can use in an essay like this? I keep trying to find a space somewhere between “propagandistic” and “cryptofascist” to describe my feelings about Miller’s screed. But perhaps it’s more accurate to say the following: whatever mainstream Hollywood cinema is now, Frank Miller is part of it. And Frank Miller has done Occupy Wall Street a service by reminding us that our allegedly democratic political system, which increases inequality and decreases class mobility, which is mostly interested in keeping the disenfranchised where they are, requires a mindless, propagandistic (or “cryptofascist”) storytelling medium to distract its citizenry. We should be grateful for the reminder. And we might repay the favor by avoiding purchase of tickets to Miller’s films.
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drb~~~~~~~~ if your sources don’t agree with the statements of the EITHER party
what the hell good are they?
Howards says that he was taken ito custody and arrested THAT SAME DAY.
so if you want to use some Martian News Service source, maybe they don’t define
“day” as containing 24 hrs…. obviously a planetary thing and you’re going with
one other than Earth. bon voyage.
@heterochromatic
Obviously, we use different sources of information. My sources typically reflect
genuine events. The twist that the dumbing down, disinformation machine puts
on every event it reports is not the basic function of the sources I use.
drb~~~reports that say that he wasn’t taken into custody while still at the
“event”
~~~~ not followed for days~~~~ appear to be incorrect.
“Howards then approached the vice president, made his comment and allegedly
pushed or touched him on the shoulder. Accounts differed on whether it was a
soft touch or a push.
Nothing happened immediately, but Reichle, a Secret Service coordinator on the
scene, heard about the incident from other agents. He then confronted
Howards, accused him of an assault and ordered his arrest when he denied
putting his hand on the vice president.
Howards was detained for several hours and released. A harassment charge
lodged against him was dismissed.”
You may be more up to date on psych wards than I am. I have neither worked on nor visited a psych ward in several years. Patients on psych wards were reported to the US Census by hospital administration, once upon a time.
Touching someone on the shoulder was once a common greeting among civilized Americans. Reports say that Howard was not immediately arrested, was followed for several days, and subsequently arrested. However, “shilling” for the administration obviously includes distortion and disinformation.
the dude was arrested for assault, not criticism…..
not arrested until after he put his hand on
Cheney….
~~~~“The case arose from an episode in 2006 at a mall
in Beaver Creek, Colo. A Secret Service agent said he
heard Steven Howards say into a cellphone that he
planned to ask Mr. Cheney “how many kids he’s killed
today.” Mr. Howards later approached Mr. Cheney and
said the administration’s “policies in Iraq are
disgusting.” Mr. Howards then touched Mr. Cheney on
the shoulder in a gesture variously described as an
open-handed pat, a slap and a strike that caused the
vice president’s shoulder to dip.
Confronted by the Secret Service, Mr. Howards denied
touching Mr. Cheney and said, “If you don’t want
other people sharing their opinions, you should have
him avoid public places.” Agents arrested Mr. Howards
for assault and turned him over to local
authorities”~~~~
I would have been tempted to do more than smack
Cheney in the back, but I wouldn’t later lie about it
and then pretend that I had a right to do it….
“Is Criticism of Iraq War ‘Probable Cause?’ Supreme Court to Hear the Case”
Detained Colorado Mall-Goer Told Dick Cheney Iraq War Was ‘Disgusting’
“The agents are explicitly claiming that the antiwar comments he made
constituted “probable cause” andthey cannot be sued for making an arrest
based on probable cause. The Obama Administration, unsurprisingly, is
defending the agents, saying they acted appropriately in capturing the
dissident Howards.” http://truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/8540/Default.aspx
Facism in Hollywood? Don´t look at Wash D.C., the White House or the
USCongress.
No doubt, the whole world was awaiting the opinion of heterochromatic on
judge Neapolitano´s personality integration.
What “this guy” Neapolitano tells us pans out better than what “heterochromatic” tells us. Neapolitano doesn´t shill for either the WWII NAZI, GHWBushSr, CIA nor AIPAC. He just tells it the way it is from the standpoint of U.S.Constitutional jurisprudence.
Heterochromatic tells us anything that continues the dumbing down process.
Go back to the AIPAC flagpole, “tic”.
the idea in the ugly military-detention provision of the bill is lousy idea,,,,but so
is relying on Judge Andrew P. Napolitano to interpret it for you.
Neapolitano, as most of his buddies on FOX News, is quite unbalanced. This guy
will tell you that any question on the census other than number of residents is
unConstitutional.
As to unconvincing truth being biting, I think not! More like flea bites! Once again OM you think it is all about you, I was commenting in reference to ‘Napolean whats his name’s’ post on trolls, if green warts fit OM,... so be it!
More importantly is my question about fascism and how it relates to what is happening in our seemingly corrupt and broken nation. Recent shenanigans going on in Congress with them trying to pass a law giving the Military complete control of detention over US citizens without due process simply by labeling them as terrorists seems very Fascist to me?
Really trolls seem in my book to be defined in their constant obstructions from the article topic and especially from posters comments which can be uncomfortably biting truths!
Exploding popular myths with uncomfortable biting truths is a noble thing to do. And lets all agree that it isnt easy. You will be called all sorts of names for it, and you will no doubt be quite unpopular if you persist.
Wherever you find like-minded people you will find they cherish their own locally popular myths. The popular myths in one place, such as a fundamentalist church, are a little different from, say, a Republican convention.
It is human nature that causes this phenomenon. The human eye cannot focus on the near and the far at the same time, and in the same way the human mind cannot percieve all the facts equally. As soon as we percieve, we are filtering out many facts in order to better appreciate what is more important(at least to us). It seems that with our minds as well as with our vision, we miss more facts than we are able to take in. We misunderstand far more than we understand.
Yet from our few facts, understandings and opinions… we construct our own world view, which further focuses our minds, allowing us to better use and even act on our ideas. This is a proper and good process. It is the human process.
When a group of people naturally cherish their mythos, we should not expect them to surrender it just because we present a few stray facts which their mythos does not account for. We do not expect that an inconvenient biting truth will be enough to make them change everything about how they see the world.
But we might ask for something else from them, and that is awareness of Other. This means while we cherish our own mythos, we acknowledge the alternative as human, even if we consider the alternative is in error.
Here at Truthdig there is a mythos all its own. Your ideology might teach you that you have evolved beyond the rest of us, but i know you are not yet superior to the human race. My dear reader, under whose eye this post falls, you are only human!
Only human, so there are truths that are inconvenient, biting, and they are going to get past you. I attempt to put merely a few of them in your way. You call them “obstructions”. You call me an agent provocateur, that I am paid in some ‘boiler room’, that I am not a real person, that I am crazy, that I am the 1%, that I am a troll. But the most frequent accusation is ‘fascist’. All of these names serve one purpose: to negate the Other, specifically to remove the humanness contained in the alternative.
This little post of mine will surely meet with the usual misunderstanding, hatred, and rage. Yet this little post is reasonable. This little post treats all humans alike, myself as well as you. Written by a American conservative fundamentalist Christian, but nevertheless, what I wrote treats us all alike. It does not reserve some rights for you while binding me with chains. For that reason most if not all Leftists will turn their noses up at this little post.
Ah, dear Leftist reader, that is the inconvenient biting truth. For on Truthdig, the inconvenient truth cannot be one which goes down easy for you. The inconvenient biting truth wouldnt be the one that makes you more sure you are right! No. The inconvenient truth comes from outside your radar, and upsets you. Now ponder this: who best qualifies to bring inconvient truth to Truthdig? Could it be a Christian, a fundamentalist, and conservative at that?
If you more wished to sharpen your mythos with some biting truth, you would treat me very differently. I would be an honored gadfly.
I would never ask you to concede your entire world view just because of one inconvenient truth, but I sharply demand that you strive for a more human relation with the Other. I berate you for not doing so.
Defining of trolls would seem subjective only in a limited sense, sometimes posters call trolls any differing opinions for their own. Objectivity is very hard to obtain. For I have my suspicions of Trolldom, but usually if it is not the one hiding under a bridge it may be someone trying to sell me one! Really trolls seem in my book to be defined in their constant obstructions from the article topic and especially from posters comments which can be uncomfortably biting truths!
Question for race; my knowledge of Fascism is limited, from online searches, your post advocates a knowledge on the subject; what is your opinion of Dr. Lawrence Britt’s 14 points of Fascism?
When I read the 14 points, I see the puzzle fitting into place right here in River City!
Regarding trolls and agents of the state, TD or whomever is not a genuine dialogue contributor:
If you look up the date when a particular account was opened, you can also see other accounts which were opened at about the same time.
I perused the list of the history of sign ups to TD, and you can plainly see two or four accounts opened at the same time… and when you track responses and activity from clusters like that ( not accurate science by any means, just a little experiment which worked ), you can see plainly how folks use several monikers to add dirt to covering the truth on here.
I was banned from TD for two months once, and when I kept contacting whomever administers the site issues, they kept saying it was a technical problem on my end…. ?
And many of the trolls from that time I don’t see here anymore…. I’ve been absent for some time because it seemed pointless arguing with people who have are conspirators / colluding parties.
Hetero showed their true colors on another thread talking about how Mormons do all kinds of wild things…. blah blah blah ( I see you now ).
Their activity seems to increase with the success of movements in the streets with which they consistently make aggression.
Dont you just love the way far Leftists define things? I am criticizing Occupy Wall Street, and cpb defines that as ‘making aggression’ against Occupy Wall Street. As if I am running over the Occupiers with tanks. We all know it was merely logic and a demand for fairness that were my weapons.
Also, if cpb is right and my “activity seems to increase with the success of movements in the streets”, then at this juncture I should take a break. Occupy Wall Street has been peaceably removed from its illegal Occupation, so my job here is done.
Time to collect my phat check from Mr Koch, and retire to the Carribeeno!
OzarkMichel is really a brain-washed sick man with an alarming tunnel vision, however, heterochromatic is definitely a Troll and a dumb Troll for that matter since he is so obvious unlike Lafayette who is a sly and smart Troll who camoflague himself very skillfully.
One thing I’ve noted since I was posting regularly is the
extent of the observation / calling out of the regular
trolling that infests this site. Good on all of them that
call it out appropriately.
“This thread, lilke many others, has been derailed by the
twin trolls who alternate like sockpuppets: ozzie and
hettie.”
- Moonraven
I was a relatively active commenter until awhile back and
since have mostly been lurking. I have to agree with
Moonraven; hetero and Krazo are, without question,trolls.
Actually, from the moment that hetero appeared here on
the Dig I’ve suspected that s/he was in fact simply an
alternate avatar of whoever sits behind the Krazo
character.
Their activity seems to increase with the success of
movements in the streets with which they consistently
make aggression. Poor misunderstood conservatives
fighting against all those insane leftists waiting to
impose some form of dictatorial conspiracy upon the
misunderstood defenders of capitalist immorality. LOL
Go take a warm bath with your toaster oven Krazo.
Greetings and best wishes to you genuine ‘Diggers’, you
know who you are.
Regarding Muammar al Ghadaffi and “hell.” If there is
a “hell”, neither you nor I, none of us, know who is
“sent” there, nor do any of us have input into the
decision.
Back to your delusional system at the AIPAC flagpole.
As usual, you are broadcasting disinformation. You are consistent, popping up as though you are responsible for what others write on Truthdig.
Habeus corpus has been dishonored for two years, and presidential
directive has overridden all personal-rights amendments to the U.S.
Constitution. Otherwise, your “friends” could not have assassinated
an American who was charged with terrorism, without due process,
three months ago, while he was outside of CONUS.
In addition to being a retired, raving, pedant who uses foul language,
have you recently been reviewed for alzheimer`s ?
Long time liberal and fairly active (was more when younger) in what we called “the movement” back when. There are so many issues and fronts right now to deal with, and soooo many good articles. Also a film buff of sorts. Anyone who is on this planet knows that Hollywood is like any other community in terms of politics. There are libs and there are those other people. This article is making quite a deal out of those other folks. Is this really a big revelation, or is it just life on this planet. Anyone that is to the left knows that the majority (not all) of the people who like movies that blow up things, kill people all over the place, and have men that are like Arnie that bleed a lot but never seem to mind too much and they always have their way with the women are not what we would call liberal political activists for the most part. So…why are we discussing this? Why am I discussing this? Never mind.
drb~~~~Your current Obama, democratic congress just passed a law that
enables Americans to be accused of being a terrorist, and carted off
indefinitely to Guantanamo, with NO Constitutional rights. ~~~~
incorrect as always, ..... no law was passed…..
RIF, drb.
and even if that shit did pass into law…Habeas rights would remain.
@ozarkmicheal
Be careful how you label yours and your buddies´ paranoid claim
that anyone who disagrees with the Red Party line must be a paid
agent provocateur. Your fantasy is a bit too active. Maybe you are
just stupid.
Your current Obama, democratic congress just passed a law that
enables Americans to be accused of being a terrorist, and carted off
indefinitely to Guantanamo, with NO Constitutional rights. http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/5894.html
@greg_2, November 29 at 7:54 pm
“I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking
the truth, answers and solutions…”
Very pertinent question. Some of them identify themselves. They are
the frequent responders who tell others how to think in order to be
accurate or real or logical. They typically defend the current
administration, also.
What is interesting is the image etched in the minds of populous when words like “communist” or “fascist” are mentioned… similar to training a dog to sit…. the command / buzz word is given, and an immediate reaction ( programmed reaction ) is rendered.
race~~~~ How about you explain how the “anti-Fascist
front” was anything more than a front for spreading
their own brand of totalitarianism.
you’re blind on one eye, my friend…there was nothing
good in Soviet Russia in the 1930s and the Russians
killed a hell of a lot of good people for no reason
except as sacrifices to their ugly ideology.
and again, the relationship of the British aristocracy
was just as screwy for the Bolshies as for Mosley.
Fascism, Schmascism… go argue the meanings somewhere else please. I know, go edit the Wikipedia pages for Fascism, Communism, et. al. since you are all so smart and experts n all! Or at least read them.
***
“I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking the truth, answers and solutions…”
Really! I see so many Right-wingers hanging out on Lefty-media sites posting all kinds of trash in the comments!
“... who write articles on TD are shills of the system and experts in omission and narrative writing.”
Oops, thought you were talking about comment shills!
I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking the truth, answers and solutions…
Enough already know that the play-writes ( they call themselves journalists ) who write articles on TD are shills of the system and experts in omission and narrative writing.
heterochromatic—-Are you not familiar with the efforts by the Soviet Union to build an anti-fascist front in Europe? This went on from 1933 until 1939. No results. Britain and France simply played games. And why not? Hitler had made it clear that destruction of the USSR and the Bolsheviks was what fascism was all about. Everyone knew this. You might want to review Maxim Litvinov’s statement of March 17, 1938 in the period leading up to the destruction of Czechoslovakia. The ruling circles in Britain and France were somewhat schizophrenic regarding the fascists. They liked the part about crushing unions and communists and destroying the USSR, but sober minds among them knew that they were riding the tiger.
Robes, there are certainly differences in different
subsets of both the communist and fascist branches of
totalitarianism ..... but Rosa’s brand of communism was
merely theoretical and nowhere did Rosa get to apply
it.
And of course, you would grant that the fascism in
Germany was not the same as the Iberian brand.
In the end, though, in practice, all of it, on both
sides, comes down to the same inhuman shit….
@heterochromatic, although there’s a big difference between Communism in the Stalinist tradition and Communist ideas in the Rosa Luxemburg tradition, meanwhile there’s little difference between Mussolinni and Hitler.
race~~~~~ bashing fascism requires no more thinking than bashing Stalinist
communism.
while I well remember that Operation Barbarossa broke the Reich, I also remember
that Stalin sent Molotov to meet von Ribbentrop and signed off (on August 23,
1939) on giving Hitler assurances that he had a free hand to start the damned
war….one week later.
the nature of fascism is that it’s part and parcel of the same rancid totalitarian
enslavement of the individual to the collective that is communism.
Bashing Stalin requires no thinking; it’s like religion. Finance capitalist ideologists have done all the work for you; all you have to do is regurgitate. Really, I don’t give a shit about any of it . ALL that matters to me and to history is that Nazi fascism was destroyed and civilization was saved at the gates of Moscow, Stalingrad and at Kursk and hundreds of unknown places on the Eastern Front. You don’t know that, but Churchill, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower sure did. Do you think the US and Britain would have opposed Hitler if the Soviet Union had collapsed in the fall of 1941? If you do, then your ignorance is all the greater.
But, this was not what my post was about. My post was about the nature of fascism; what it is and why it exists. This is not a game. Dimitrov, the defendant at the infamous Reichstag fire trial defeated the fascists in their own court! He understood the nature of fascism, which is enduring and will not change. It is most important that we understand it too and not be misled.
Or perhaps you have your own “understanding” of fascism. Finance capital has prepared more than one version for you to use off the rack. You wouldn’t expect them not to have done that, would you.
race_to_the_bottom said: “This is a good time to read a description of fascism in an earlier epoch, from 1935. Change a few things around and it doesn’t sound all that unfamiliar.”
This is also a good time to read about the communist revolution in an earlier epoch, starting around 1917. Change just a few things about the Truthdig Occupy Wall Street crowd and it doesnt sound all that unfamiliar.
The take home lesson would be that all Leftist radicals arrive eventually to the 1920s, with its Lenin, its Trotsky and its Stalin.
By 1930, its only Stalin. That explains an avatar. race_to_the_bottom loves Stalin so much that he uses Stalin’s face on his posts.
Yet Truthdiggers read those posts, and other Communist posts, with minor disagreement on a few points, or even approval. The Truthdiggers find communist ideas “interesting” and often have nice agreeable chats with them.
Stalin was the most evil man ever to walk the planet, or perhaps he comes in second to Lenin. Hitler is a piker by comparison. But here, where we have communists posting, Truthdig inculcates ignorance with stupid articles like this one, which basically says “be on the lookout, fascists are everwhere!”
Stalin’s face. Lenin’s ideas. Trotsky’s agitprop. We have so many who play those roles I cant keep track of them.
Tens of millions of Russian citizens were accused and convicted of speaking or acting in the interest of the 1%[oh frightening similarity!] they were branded as fascists,[so like Truthdig and its loyal cicadas]
A little illustration is necessary to show where your radical Leftist rhetoric leads: Cattle cars packed with prisoners,(many of them Christians who would not compromise their beliefs and so the Soviets sent them to be worked to death in a concentration camp) enters a town where they have to process the prisoners. The people in the town called out to each other to watch the fun… “here come the fascists!”
Yes, Christians and other non-cooperative people have been called “fascists” a billion times, but sometimes you idiots manage to gain control of governments and actually act on it.
100 million died in Leftist concentration camps last century. Isnt that enough?
race_to_the_bottom~~~~~ excellent handle for someone thinking that the views of
communists are worthy of linking in regard to communists brothers-in-
toatalitarianism, fascists.
great to want to explain one set of bottom-feeders with the words of other
bottom-feeders.
One thing I worry about more than most other things: the explosive (or implosive) fragility of the world-view of the “hard left”: the “fascists all around us” myth, and the lack of problem-solving and instead a stubborn resistance to facts and the complete rejection of creativity and invention. The incessant efforts to force their past revolutionary and socialist failures on the present. The lack of flexiblity. The unforgiving set of destructive notions like “we are the 99% and if you don’t agree you are siding with the 1%”.
A good book to read check out that is relevant on this topic is “From Caligari To Hitler” by Siegfried Kracauer, it examines how German cinema from the 1920s and 1930s expresses the developments in German society and the eventual rise of Nazism.
Well said, Lafayette. The dumbing down of America, the whys and hows, is an oft
discussed topic in our home. It is terrifying and it would be interesting to read
your observations and suggestions concerning a change of course for our nation
and the saving of our people who do not understand what they read or observe.
We do note that the local kids attend school less and less because there is some
contrived holiday closing schools on a routine and frequent basis. Few people, it
seems, want to engage in serious conversation. Those who have jobs work long
hours and are simply too exhausted I guess..I do hope you will write an analysis,
of what we regular folks could do to make a difference. It is become clear that
being active in political campaigning is next to worthless. Both sides acquit their
promises once in the power of politics.
This is a good time to read a description of fascism in an earlier epoch, from 1935. Change a few things around and it doesn’t sound all that unfamiliar.
“Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.”
“The imperialist circles are trying to shift the whole burden of the crisis onto the shoulders of the working people. That is why they need fascism.”
“With the development of the very deep economic crisis, with the general crisis of capitalism becoming sharply accentuated and the mass of working people becoming revolutionized, fascism has embarked upon a wide offensive. The ruling bourgeoisie more and more seeks salvation in fascism, with the object of taking exceptional predatory measures against the working people, preparing for an imperialist war of plunder…”
I Thank my lucky stars that some of us are actually tiring of this trite romp
through comic book land in search of superheroes to worship with five and six
“crapmakes” films. Who put DC comics in charge of literature selection ?
Ah yes crank out the Norris turds there is a world of ne 12 year old minds to
wander into !
@Ms_Anne_Thropy, the article was about more than just Miller if you bothered to actually read it, it was about the kind of nationalist, neofascist ideals promoted by corporate trash on the screen. You display a strange trend people cling to: Disconnecting what the artist produces from what he actually thinks. As the article points out, you can clearly see Miller’s toxic ideals in “300” and “Holy Terror.” There’s a reason why art is considered a form of EXPRESSION. It’s true some filmmakers find themselves doing work for hire to get by and then do their own passion projects (one recent example is Chris Weitz who made “Twilight: New Moon” and recently made the totally different “A Better Life”), but that’s not the case now with Miller and his graphic novels.
Frank Miller is one of the best writers of comic books ever. Does this make his opinions any more or less valuable than the opinion anyone else. Of course not, so why do his comments get everyone in an uproar. Because he is a celebrity, and somehow that seems to make his comments more important. Blame the cult of celebrity.
So Frank Miller is the self proclaimed Holy Knight Crusader charging off to battle
in support as the prime defender of “Walmart Hollywood”. Big Deal ! His tirade was
a simple minded effort to garner attention for himself as the “Condom of the far
right” thus distracting any attention away from his commode bowl of work !
Lafayette: Thanks for reminding folks about the universal policy of Bread and Circus for the masses.
Problem is, someone forgot about the bread.
But it’s about time you folks snapped to the fact that you are the masses—all this time you thought you were in the expensive seats, giving thumbs up or thumbs down.
American movies, in the main, often agree with Frank Miller, that endless war against a ruthless enemy is good
Uhhh, very, very Orwell-ish. And borrinngg!
Which is a facile means for sweeping all America’s societal ills under a carpet and instead focusing upon the menace from some other country or some other planet or an asteroid plummeting into the earth’s atmosphere. Whereupon, instinctively, the Yanks all band together to triumph over evil.
How many times now has Bruce Willis saved the planet? The guy deserves the Medal of Honor!
The dumbing-down-of-America is replete with such infantile nonsense, which is why Americans have become so clueless as to what is happening to their country.
Let’s hope the OWS movement is indeed a wake-up call, but I have serious doubts that anything can awaken the grassroots up from its self-indulgent torpor.
Not much has changed since this Roman dictum prevailed during its Empire: “Give them bread and games”. Nowadays, pizza and the Rose Bowl on TV will do very nicely. Not quite as gripping visually as the lions ripping apart the early Christians - but attention getting nonetheless.
Occupy WS should also occupy banks, FED and the Treasury Dept… for the FED owns the tribute-paying system ( the payment of interest / tribute for created debt instruments is the biggest fraud / ponzi scheme ever ).
It is an exciting time to be alive… for this is the first time EVER that practically the entire world is revolting against the hegemony..
Yet, before anyone occupies anything, first occupy your mind and find out what needs to be addressed first, and that is realizing that the individual in the states is a Sovereign ( like a king ) by Constitutional definition… and every public ‘official’ is their servant… but folks haven’t the faintest of ‘who’ they are.
By serge, November 27, 2011 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
A culture at the end of its rope, continued
In the absence of historical understanding, events
can become surrounded by the most banal and clichéd
notions. Chapters in Miller’s book have titles like
“Honor,” “Duty,” “Glory” and “Victory.” These ideas
are hackneyed and empty and quickly become filled
with militarist sentiment.
Historical reality is richer, more complex and
ultimately a far more fertile ground for a film or a
graphic novel.
The Spartan soldiers came from a unique society, even
among the ancient Greeks. The Spartan was a member of
a ruling military class. He underwent relentless
training and exposure to the elements because his
social class was in a constant state of war with a
much larger group of oppressed helots, Greek-speaking
serfs, whose labor the Spartans exploited….
heterochromatic -Actually, you’re on to something….
OWS is well-intended. It’s conflict with wealth disparity and all that is well-founded…would that the American public actually get off its collective fat-high-fructose-corn-syrup ass and truly do something about it.
No, there will be no revolution or backlash against Hollywood or any other corporations because, simply put, Americans are consumers and not citizens. As long as they can consume the garbage coming out of Hollywood, or Madison Avenue or Wall Street, that’s the extent of their patriotism and activism.
It’s not that the 99% don’t believe they are in the 99%. It’s that they’re easily distracted by the “easy way” of consumerism…...citizenship takes far more work…...
I’m kinda confused…. if Hollywood is about Miller and his stuff is the way to
maximize profits..
and he’s pissing on the Occupy movement…. does that mean that it’s possible that
the 99% isn’t really behind the Occupy movement that says it represents the 99% ?
“Hollywood” is a business, a very powerful, profitable and influential business. It’s as simple as that. The old adage: “if you want to dine with the classes you must sell to the masses” is applied by Hollywood with ruthless efficiency. If it’s not Miller then it’s the endless outpouring of Disney fantasy crap. People are easily manipulated and truly enjoy what Hollywood produces because it appeals to the most basic (and some would say base) instincts we humans possess.
Hey people, it’s ALWAYS about maximizing profits….....
Good to see someone writing about this topic. I know “liberals” love Bill Maher, but I cringe everytime he defends the Israeli occupation, Obama’s assassination policies and makes comments about Muslims that you couldn’t get away with if they were directed at other groups, figures etc. Salman Rushdie, Elie Wiesel and others have also fallen into the poisonous trap of nationalism, right-wing worship of blood and land cult myths.
As for Hollywood, it’s no surprise that clowns like Brad Pitt, Eva Mendes and Jolie go around promoting Ayn Rand.
1) public officials can indeed be influenced by a small group of diligent
individuals if they’re careful and if they start with local officials and hone their
technique.
2) stay the hell away from any people telling you that you can exercise
sovereignty….. unless and until you’ve spent a few years studying our legal
system and the history of the common law in England in the centuries prior to
the American Constitution…..talking about exercising “sovereignty” rather than
understanding your rights and obligations under US and local law is a good way
to get tangled up in a mess.
but if you’re really interested in this stuff, or think that you might be, try
reading Bowen’s biography of Edward Coke, “The Lion and the Throne”.
If you want to read more and more deeply after that, I’ll be around here at least
a few weeks longer if you want other suggestions.
we all start out getting a lot of information that really doesn’t fit what we see int
the field when we finally can see…..that’s when one has to sweep out all the trash
and really begin to learn…
and damned if things don’t look awfully bare and bleak for a while.
I guess my brain is tired of all the madness, duplicity and duality…
Sometimes I wonder ‘which way is up?’ like the movie.
What I do know, is that what I was taught to understand and accept as capitalism and the Amerikan way being ‘better’ and righteous has faded away like a dream usually does soon after awakening… and now I see a jigsaw puzzle.. and the shapes on the board do not fit those in my mind.
no. fascism isn’t more about greed than capitalism or and fascism isn’t any better
control than other collectivist ideologies.
a generally got the sense that you weren’t really talking about fascist in any real
sense and think that you’re better off not describing people as fascists when you
don’t mean it.
you seem pretty well able to express yourself and I’m betting that you can easily
find the right words to express what you really mean.
hope that I’m not control-freaking on you too heavy.
By Captain America (from Easy Rider, not the by-the-b, November 26, 2011 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Listen, this is the sad clod who ruined Will Eisner’s ‘The Spirit’. He wrote an interesting Batman story almost thirty years ago. He’s like Dennis Miller - sad, disenfranchised, egomaniacal, a little lost and easily ignored. And of course Hollywood has disgusting values: it created Brett Ratner.
By rumblingspire, November 26, 2011 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
here’s a sweet film for those who hunger. i recently discovered it and thought i might share. i’m sure this has never been shown in america, as a couple of sections would need censoring. listen to the teacher explain the purpose of education in the working class district.
What is interesting is if a fascist was to be called a fascist, he’d immediately envision some cold-war commy in his mind instead of realizing his selfish and self-centered view of life… and thus fail to realize his heart and ill-placed values may simply blind him from seeing his nearsightedness.
He’s one of those fascist fools who think Fannie and Freddie gave mortgages to poor people. I bet he often says “get over it” because my fascist brother uses the phrase all the time. If you got a problem with $3 trillion of our tax money dumped into the Iraqi hell hole, well ... “GET OVER IT” say the New American Fascists. We should call them “The New American Fascists.”
Frank Miller finds the occupy protesters to be acting like wankers and making us
look soft to the jihadists and Rick moody writes a wanky essay about Hollywood.
One thing I worry about more than most other things: the explosive (or implosive) fragility of the world-view of the “hard right”: The “end times” myth, the lack of problem-solving and instead a stubborn resistance to facts and the complete rejection of creativity and invention. The inecessant efforts to force past failures on the present. The lack of flexiblity. The unforgiving set of destructive notions like “poor people do not deserve to eat, have a home, see a doctor when they are ill.” The end point has been reached when 99 to 1 is okay, and extraodinary rendition and collateral damage is okay, and “war is inevitable”.
High time we get busy and help the Occupiers!
A Cooler Century? Wait and See
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By drbhelthi, December 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment
@heterochromatic
“Howards says- - .”
Report thisI have not talked with Steven Howards. Thus, he has told me nothing.
If he said that to you, you have direct information from him.
By heterochromatic, December 8, 2011 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment
drb~~~~~~~~ if your sources don’t agree with the statements of the EITHER party
what the hell good are they?
Howards says that he was taken ito custody and arrested THAT SAME DAY.
so if you want to use some Martian News Service source, maybe they don’t define
Report this“day” as containing 24 hrs…. obviously a planetary thing and you’re going with
one other than Earth. bon voyage.
By drbhelthi, December 8, 2011 at 11:32 am Link to this comment
@heterochromatic
Report thisObviously, we use different sources of information. My sources typically reflect
genuine events. The twist that the dumbing down, disinformation machine puts
on every event it reports is not the basic function of the sources I use.
By heterochromatic, December 8, 2011 at 8:33 am Link to this comment
drb~~~reports that say that he wasn’t taken into custody while still at the
“event”
~~~~ not followed for days~~~~ appear to be incorrect.
“Howards then approached the vice president, made his comment and allegedly
pushed or touched him on the shoulder. Accounts differed on whether it was a
soft touch or a push.
Nothing happened immediately, but Reichle, a Secret Service coordinator on the
scene, heard about the incident from other agents. He then confronted
Howards, accused him of an assault and ordered his arrest when he denied
putting his hand on the vice president.
Howards was detained for several hours and released. A harassment charge
lodged against him was dismissed.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/05/nation/la-na-court-cheney-
Report this20111206
By drbhelthi, December 8, 2011 at 1:57 am Link to this comment
@heterochromatic
Writing and saying via “hindsight,” or after-the-fact, is simple fantasy
Report thisactivity that reflects after-thought. It is not realistic.
By drbhelthi, December 8, 2011 at 1:46 am Link to this comment
@hererochromatic
You may be more up to date on psych wards than I am. I have neither worked on nor visited a psych ward in several years. Patients on psych wards were reported to the US Census by hospital administration, once upon a time.
Touching someone on the shoulder was once a common greeting among civilized Americans. Reports say that Howard was not immediately arrested, was followed for several days, and subsequently arrested. However, “shilling” for the administration obviously includes distortion and disinformation.
“On December 2, 2011, the U.S. Senate voted to pass Senate Bill 1867 by a vote of 93-7.”
Report thishttp://www.cancertruth.net/enemy-combatant/
By heterochromatic, December 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment
the dude was arrested for assault, not criticism…..
not arrested until after he put his hand on
Cheney….
~~~~“The case arose from an episode in 2006 at a mall
in Beaver Creek, Colo. A Secret Service agent said he
heard Steven Howards say into a cellphone that he
planned to ask Mr. Cheney “how many kids he’s killed
today.” Mr. Howards later approached Mr. Cheney and
said the administration’s “policies in Iraq are
disgusting.” Mr. Howards then touched Mr. Cheney on
the shoulder in a gesture variously described as an
open-handed pat, a slap and a strike that caused the
vice president’s shoulder to dip.
Confronted by the Secret Service, Mr. Howards denied
touching Mr. Cheney and said, “If you don’t want
other people sharing their opinions, you should have
him avoid public places.” Agents arrested Mr. Howards
for assault and turned him over to local
authorities”~~~~
I would have been tempted to do more than smack
Report thisCheney in the back, but I wouldn’t later lie about it
and then pretend that I had a right to do it….
By heterochromatic, December 7, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment
happily for yourself, people in psych wards aren’t
Report thisrequired to fill out census forms.
By drbhelthi, December 7, 2011 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment
“Is Criticism of Iraq War ‘Probable Cause?’ Supreme Court to Hear the Case”
Detained Colorado Mall-Goer Told Dick Cheney Iraq War Was ‘Disgusting’
“The agents are explicitly claiming that the antiwar comments he made
constituted “probable cause” andthey cannot be sued for making an arrest
based on probable cause. The Obama Administration, unsurprisingly, is
defending the agents, saying they acted appropriately in capturing the
dissident Howards.”
http://truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/8540/Default.aspx
Facism in Hollywood? Don´t look at Wash D.C., the White House or the
Report thisUSCongress.
By drbhelthi, December 7, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment
No doubt, the whole world was awaiting the opinion of heterochromatic on
judge Neapolitano´s personality integration.
What “this guy” Neapolitano tells us pans out better than what “heterochromatic” tells us. Neapolitano doesn´t shill for either the WWII NAZI, GHWBushSr, CIA nor AIPAC. He just tells it the way it is from the standpoint of U.S.Constitutional jurisprudence.
Heterochromatic tells us anything that continues the dumbing down process.
Report thisGo back to the AIPAC flagpole, “tic”.
By heterochromatic, December 7, 2011 at 11:54 am Link to this comment
the idea in the ugly military-detention provision of the bill is lousy idea,,,,but so
is relying on Judge Andrew P. Napolitano to interpret it for you.
Neapolitano, as most of his buddies on FOX News, is quite unbalanced. This guy
Report thiswill tell you that any question on the census other than number of residents is
unConstitutional.
By drbhelthi, December 7, 2011 at 11:25 am Link to this comment
@Leefeller one day later- - -
“On December 2, 2011, the U.S. Senate voted to pass Senate Bill 1867
by a vote of 93-7.”
http://www.cancertruth.net/enemy-combatant/
Report thisBy Leefeller, December 1, 2011 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment
What do you mean by ‘we” OM?
As to unconvincing truth being biting, I think not! More like flea bites! Once again OM you think it is all about you, I was commenting in reference to ‘Napolean whats his name’s’ post on trolls, if green warts fit OM,... so be it!
More importantly is my question about fascism and how it relates to what is happening in our seemingly corrupt and broken nation. Recent shenanigans going on in Congress with them trying to pass a law giving the Military complete control of detention over US citizens without due process simply by labeling them as terrorists seems very Fascist to me?
Report thisBy OzarkMichael, December 1, 2011 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment
Leefeller said:
Exploding popular myths with uncomfortable biting truths is a noble thing to do. And lets all agree that it isnt easy. You will be called all sorts of names for it, and you will no doubt be quite unpopular if you persist.
Wherever you find like-minded people you will find they cherish their own locally popular myths. The popular myths in one place, such as a fundamentalist church, are a little different from, say, a Republican convention.
It is human nature that causes this phenomenon. The human eye cannot focus on the near and the far at the same time, and in the same way the human mind cannot percieve all the facts equally. As soon as we percieve, we are filtering out many facts in order to better appreciate what is more important(at least to us). It seems that with our minds as well as with our vision, we miss more facts than we are able to take in. We misunderstand far more than we understand.
Yet from our few facts, understandings and opinions… we construct our own world view, which further focuses our minds, allowing us to better use and even act on our ideas. This is a proper and good process. It is the human process.
When a group of people naturally cherish their mythos, we should not expect them to surrender it just because we present a few stray facts which their mythos does not account for. We do not expect that an inconvenient biting truth will be enough to make them change everything about how they see the world.
But we might ask for something else from them, and that is awareness of Other. This means while we cherish our own mythos, we acknowledge the alternative as human, even if we consider the alternative is in error.
Here at Truthdig there is a mythos all its own. Your ideology might teach you that you have evolved beyond the rest of us, but i know you are not yet superior to the human race. My dear reader, under whose eye this post falls, you are only human!
Only human, so there are truths that are inconvenient, biting, and they are going to get past you. I attempt to put merely a few of them in your way. You call them “obstructions”. You call me an agent provocateur, that I am paid in some ‘boiler room’, that I am not a real person, that I am crazy, that I am the 1%, that I am a troll. But the most frequent accusation is ‘fascist’. All of these names serve one purpose: to negate the Other, specifically to remove the humanness contained in the alternative.
This little post of mine will surely meet with the usual misunderstanding, hatred, and rage. Yet this little post is reasonable. This little post treats all humans alike, myself as well as you. Written by a American conservative fundamentalist Christian, but nevertheless, what I wrote treats us all alike. It does not reserve some rights for you while binding me with chains. For that reason most if not all Leftists will turn their noses up at this little post.
Ah, dear Leftist reader, that is the inconvenient biting truth. For on Truthdig, the inconvenient truth cannot be one which goes down easy for you. The inconvenient biting truth wouldnt be the one that makes you more sure you are right! No. The inconvenient truth comes from outside your radar, and upsets you. Now ponder this: who best qualifies to bring inconvient truth to Truthdig? Could it be a Christian, a fundamentalist, and conservative at that?
If you more wished to sharpen your mythos with some biting truth, you would treat me very differently. I would be an honored gadfly.
I would never ask you to concede your entire world view just because of one inconvenient truth, but I sharply demand that you strive for a more human relation with the Other. I berate you for not doing so.
Report thiscan be uncomfortably biting truths!
By Leefeller, December 1, 2011 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment
Defining of trolls would seem subjective only in a limited sense, sometimes posters call trolls any differing opinions for their own. Objectivity is very hard to obtain. For I have my suspicions of Trolldom, but usually if it is not the one hiding under a bridge it may be someone trying to sell me one! Really trolls seem in my book to be defined in their constant obstructions from the article topic and especially from posters comments which can be uncomfortably biting truths!
Question for race; my knowledge of Fascism is limited, from online searches, your post advocates a knowledge on the subject; what is your opinion of Dr. Lawrence Britt’s 14 points of Fascism?
When I read the 14 points, I see the puzzle fitting into place right here in River City!
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, December 1, 2011 at 8:48 am Link to this comment
Regarding trolls and agents of the state, TD or whomever is not a genuine dialogue contributor:
If you look up the date when a particular account was opened, you can also see other accounts which were opened at about the same time.
I perused the list of the history of sign ups to TD, and you can plainly see two or four accounts opened at the same time… and when you track responses and activity from clusters like that ( not accurate science by any means, just a little experiment which worked ), you can see plainly how folks use several monikers to add dirt to covering the truth on here.
I was banned from TD for two months once, and when I kept contacting whomever administers the site issues, they kept saying it was a technical problem on my end…. ?
And many of the trolls from that time I don’t see here anymore…. I’ve been absent for some time because it seemed pointless arguing with people who have are conspirators / colluding parties.
Hetero showed their true colors on another thread talking about how Mormons do all kinds of wild things…. blah blah blah ( I see you now ).
Report thisBy OzarkMichael, December 1, 2011 at 6:05 am Link to this comment
Dont you just love the way far Leftists define things? I am criticizing Occupy Wall Street, and cpb defines that as ‘making aggression’ against Occupy Wall Street. As if I am running over the Occupiers with tanks. We all know it was merely logic and a demand for fairness that were my weapons.
Also, if cpb is right and my “activity seems to increase with the success of movements in the streets”, then at this juncture I should take a break. Occupy Wall Street has been peaceably removed from its illegal Occupation, so my job here is done.
Time to collect my phat check from Mr Koch, and retire to the Carribeeno!
Report thisBy truedigger3, December 1, 2011 at 1:44 am Link to this comment
Re: By moonraven, November 30 at 1:44 am
Report thisOzarkMichel is really a brain-washed sick man with an alarming tunnel vision, however, heterochromatic is definitely a Troll and a dumb Troll for that matter since he is so obvious unlike Lafayette who is a sly and smart Troll who camoflague himself very skillfully.
By cpb, November 30, 2011 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment
You’re the one who shot and missed hetero/Krazo.
A poor retort indeed.
One thing I’ve noted since I was posting regularly is the
Report thisextent of the observation / calling out of the regular
trolling that infests this site. Good on all of them that
call it out appropriately.
By heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment
Greetings and best wishes to you genuine ‘Diggers’, you
know who you are.
http://youtu.be/wxVLHaHUI4E
Report thisyou shot and missed…have no glimmer of Krazo.
By cpb, November 30, 2011 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment
“This thread, lilke many others, has been derailed by the
twin trolls who alternate like sockpuppets: ozzie and
hettie.”
- Moonraven
I was a relatively active commenter until awhile back and
since have mostly been lurking. I have to agree with
Moonraven; hetero and Krazo are, without question,trolls.
Actually, from the moment that hetero appeared here on
the Dig I’ve suspected that s/he was in fact simply an
alternate avatar of whoever sits behind the Krazo
character.
Their activity seems to increase with the success of
movements in the streets with which they consistently
make aggression. Poor misunderstood conservatives
fighting against all those insane leftists waiting to
impose some form of dictatorial conspiracy upon the
misunderstood defenders of capitalist immorality. LOL
Go take a warm bath with your toaster oven Krazo.
Greetings and best wishes to you genuine ‘Diggers’, you
Report thisknow who you are.
By drbhelthi, November 30, 2011 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment
@heterochromatic
Regarding Muammar al Ghadaffi and “hell.” If there is
a “hell”, neither you nor I, none of us, know who is
“sent” there, nor do any of us have input into the
decision.
Back to your delusional system at the AIPAC flagpole.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
drb, my delusional. Did you say that that bill had been passed into law?
~’.... congress just passed a law ...”~~~~
were you not wrong about it ?
was it not yourself passing bad information ?
are you too inflexible to admit that you were mistaken ?
Report thisany chance of a straight answer out of you or are you passed that point were a
straight answer is possible?
By drbhelthi, November 30, 2011 at 11:17 am Link to this comment
@heterochromatic
As usual, you are broadcasting disinformation. You are consistent, popping up as though you are responsible for what others write on Truthdig.
Habeus corpus has been dishonored for two years, and presidential
directive has overridden all personal-rights amendments to the U.S.
Constitution. Otherwise, your “friends” could not have assassinated
an American who was charged with terrorism, without due process,
three months ago, while he was outside of CONUS.
In addition to being a retired, raving, pedant who uses foul language,
Report thishave you recently been reviewed for alzheimer`s ?
By PatRM2, November 30, 2011 at 10:52 am Link to this comment
Long time liberal and fairly active (was more when younger) in what we called “the movement” back when. There are so many issues and fronts right now to deal with, and soooo many good articles. Also a film buff of sorts. Anyone who is on this planet knows that Hollywood is like any other community in terms of politics. There are libs and there are those other people. This article is making quite a deal out of those other folks. Is this really a big revelation, or is it just life on this planet. Anyone that is to the left knows that the majority (not all) of the people who like movies that blow up things, kill people all over the place, and have men that are like Arnie that bleed a lot but never seem to mind too much and they always have their way with the women are not what we would call liberal political activists for the most part. So…why are we discussing this? Why am I discussing this? Never mind.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 10:19 am Link to this comment
drb~~~~Your current Obama, democratic congress just passed a law that
enables Americans to be accused of being a terrorist, and carted off
indefinitely to Guantanamo, with NO Constitutional rights. ~~~~
incorrect as always, ..... no law was passed…..
RIF, drb.
Report thisand even if that shit did pass into law…Habeas rights would remain.
By drbhelthi, November 30, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment
@ozarkmicheal
Be careful how you label yours and your buddies´ paranoid claim
that anyone who disagrees with the Red Party line must be a paid
agent provocateur. Your fantasy is a bit too active. Maybe you are
just stupid.
Your current Obama, democratic congress just passed a law that
Report thisenables Americans to be accused of being a terrorist, and carted off
indefinitely to Guantanamo, with NO Constitutional rights.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/5894.html
By heterochromatic, November 30, 2011 at 8:04 am Link to this comment
the drb is unhinged about his fuzzheaded hero Gaddafi having been sent to
Report thisoccupy hell
By OzarkMichael, November 30, 2011 at 6:03 am Link to this comment
drbhelthi said: “I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking the truth, answers and solutions…”
Hand in hand with the fascism accusation goes this paranoid claim that anyone who disagrees with the Red Party line must be a paid agent provocateur.
Report thisBy drbhelthi, November 30, 2011 at 5:18 am Link to this comment
@greg_2, November 29 at 7:54 pm
“I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking
the truth, answers and solutions…”
Very pertinent question. Some of them identify themselves. They are
Report thisthe frequent responders who tell others how to think in order to be
accurate or real or logical. They typically defend the current
administration, also.
By moonraven, November 30, 2011 at 2:44 am Link to this comment
This thread, lilke many others, has been derailed by the twin trolls who alternate like sockpuppets: ozzie and hettie.
Didn’t they have a t.v. show back in the 50s?
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment
later for you too, puke-dude.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment
race~~~~~What are the differences?~~~~
expansionism and the politicizing of ALL spheres of public life .....
Report thisin Spain, there were gaps and less enforced participation.
By greg_2, November 29, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment
As soon as I hear the word “bourgeois” here I am going to puke.
later historian-dudes…
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, November 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment
What is interesting is the image etched in the minds of populous when words like “communist” or “fascist” are mentioned… similar to training a dog to sit…. the command / buzz word is given, and an immediate reaction ( programmed reaction ) is rendered.
This term comes to mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
race~~~~ How about you explain how the “anti-Fascist
front” was anything more than a front for spreading
their own brand of totalitarianism.
you’re blind on one eye, my friend…there was nothing
good in Soviet Russia in the 1930s and the Russians
killed a hell of a lot of good people for no reason
except as sacrifices to their ugly ideology.
and again, the relationship of the British aristocracy
Report thiswas just as screwy for the Bolshies as for Mosley.
By greg_2, November 29, 2011 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment
Fascism, Schmascism… go argue the meanings somewhere else please. I know, go edit the Wikipedia pages for Fascism, Communism, et. al. since you are all so smart and experts n all! Or at least read them.
***
“I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking the truth, answers and solutions…”
Really! I see so many Right-wingers hanging out on Lefty-media sites posting all kinds of trash in the comments!
“... who write articles on TD are shills of the system and experts in omission and narrative writing.”
Oops, thought you were talking about comment shills!
Report thisBy race_to_the_bottom, November 29, 2011 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment
heterochromatic——
“you would grant that the fascism in
Germany was not the same as the Iberian brand.”
What are the differences?
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, November 29, 2011 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment
I wonder how many folks on TD are hired to dis-inform those seeking the truth, answers and solutions…
Enough already know that the play-writes ( they call themselves journalists ) who write articles on TD are shills of the system and experts in omission and narrative writing.
Report thisBy race_to_the_bottom, November 29, 2011 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment
heterochromatic—-Are you not familiar with the efforts by the Soviet Union to build an anti-fascist front in Europe? This went on from 1933 until 1939. No results. Britain and France simply played games. And why not? Hitler had made it clear that destruction of the USSR and the Bolsheviks was what fascism was all about. Everyone knew this. You might want to review Maxim Litvinov’s statement of March 17, 1938 in the period leading up to the destruction of Czechoslovakia. The ruling circles in Britain and France were somewhat schizophrenic regarding the fascists. They liked the part about crushing unions and communists and destroying the USSR, but sober minds among them knew that they were riding the tiger.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment
Robes, there are certainly differences in different
subsets of both the communist and fascist branches of
totalitarianism ..... but Rosa’s brand of communism was
merely theoretical and nowhere did Rosa get to apply
it.
And of course, you would grant that the fascism in
Germany was not the same as the Iberian brand.
In the end, though, in practice, all of it, on both
Report thissides, comes down to the same inhuman shit….
By Robespierre115, November 29, 2011 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment
@heterochromatic, although there’s a big difference between Communism in the Stalinist tradition and Communist ideas in the Rosa Luxemburg tradition, meanwhile there’s little difference between Mussolinni and Hitler.
Report thisBy greg_2, November 29, 2011 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment
Waitaminute
I thought Hollywood were all Liberal?
No, no, Hollywood is run by Jews…
But, but, Hollywood are all Cryptofacists?
Come on, make your mind Liberal Media!
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment
race~~~~~ bashing fascism requires no more thinking than bashing Stalinist
communism.
while I well remember that Operation Barbarossa broke the Reich, I also remember
that Stalin sent Molotov to meet von Ribbentrop and signed off (on August 23,
1939) on giving Hitler assurances that he had a free hand to start the damned
war….one week later.
the nature of fascism is that it’s part and parcel of the same rancid totalitarian
Report thisenslavement of the individual to the collective that is communism.
By race_to_the_bottom, November 29, 2011 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment
OzarkMichael———heterochromatic————-
Bashing Stalin requires no thinking; it’s like religion. Finance capitalist ideologists have done all the work for you; all you have to do is regurgitate. Really, I don’t give a shit about any of it . ALL that matters to me and to history is that Nazi fascism was destroyed and civilization was saved at the gates of Moscow, Stalingrad and at Kursk and hundreds of unknown places on the Eastern Front. You don’t know that, but Churchill, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower sure did. Do you think the US and Britain would have opposed Hitler if the Soviet Union had collapsed in the fall of 1941? If you do, then your ignorance is all the greater.
But, this was not what my post was about. My post was about the nature of fascism; what it is and why it exists. This is not a game. Dimitrov, the defendant at the infamous Reichstag fire trial defeated the fascists in their own court! He understood the nature of fascism, which is enduring and will not change. It is most important that we understand it too and not be misled.
Or perhaps you have your own “understanding” of fascism. Finance capital has prepared more than one version for you to use off the rack. You wouldn’t expect them not to have done that, would you.
Report thisBy OzarkMichael, November 29, 2011 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment
ack! heterochromatic. Once again your wisdom redeems the not-so-radical Left, or progressive, or liberal, or conservative, or whatever you are.
Thanks for posting on Truthdig. I bow to you today.
Report thisBy OzarkMichael, November 29, 2011 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment
race_to_the_bottom said: “This is a good time to read a description of fascism in an earlier epoch, from 1935. Change a few things around and it doesn’t sound all that unfamiliar.”
This is also a good time to read about the communist revolution in an earlier epoch, starting around 1917. Change just a few things about the Truthdig Occupy Wall Street crowd and it doesnt sound all that unfamiliar.
The take home lesson would be that all Leftist radicals arrive eventually to the 1920s, with its Lenin, its Trotsky and its Stalin.
By 1930, its only Stalin. That explains an avatar. race_to_the_bottom loves Stalin so much that he uses Stalin’s face on his posts.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stalin+portraits&id=01A84F5E64FBC3FBC4CBBF23ED7DAA4A0D178907&FORM=IGRE6
Yet Truthdiggers read those posts, and other Communist posts, with minor disagreement on a few points, or even approval. The Truthdiggers find communist ideas “interesting” and often have nice agreeable chats with them.
Stalin was the most evil man ever to walk the planet, or perhaps he comes in second to Lenin. Hitler is a piker by comparison. But here, where we have communists posting, Truthdig inculcates ignorance with stupid articles like this one, which basically says “be on the lookout, fascists are everwhere!”
Stalin’s face. Lenin’s ideas. Trotsky’s agitprop. We have so many who play those roles I cant keep track of them.
Tens of millions of Russian citizens were accused and convicted of speaking or acting in the interest of the 1%[oh frightening similarity!] they were branded as fascists,[so like Truthdig and its loyal cicadas]
A little illustration is necessary to show where your radical Leftist rhetoric leads: Cattle cars packed with prisoners,(many of them Christians who would not compromise their beliefs and so the Soviets sent them to be worked to death in a concentration camp) enters a town where they have to process the prisoners. The people in the town called out to each other to watch the fun… “here come the fascists!”
Yes, Christians and other non-cooperative people have been called “fascists” a billion times, but sometimes you idiots manage to gain control of governments and actually act on it.
100 million died in Leftist concentration camps last century. Isnt that enough?
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 29, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment
race_to_the_bottom~~~~~ excellent handle for someone thinking that the views of
communists are worthy of linking in regard to communists brothers-in-
toatalitarianism, fascists.
great to want to explain one set of bottom-feeders with the words of other
Report thisbottom-feeders.
By OzarkMichael, November 29, 2011 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment
One thing I worry about more than most other things: the explosive (or implosive) fragility of the world-view of the “hard left”: the “fascists all around us” myth, and the lack of problem-solving and instead a stubborn resistance to facts and the complete rejection of creativity and invention. The incessant efforts to force their past revolutionary and socialist failures on the present. The lack of flexiblity. The unforgiving set of destructive notions like “we are the 99% and if you don’t agree you are siding with the 1%”.
High time we get busy and refute the Occupiers!
Report thisBy Robespierre115, November 29, 2011 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment
A good book to read check out that is relevant on this topic is “From Caligari To Hitler” by Siegfried Kracauer, it examines how German cinema from the 1920s and 1930s expresses the developments in German society and the eventual rise of Nazism.
Report thisBy faith, November 29, 2011 at 11:43 am Link to this comment
Well said, Lafayette. The dumbing down of America, the whys and hows, is an oft
discussed topic in our home. It is terrifying and it would be interesting to read
your observations and suggestions concerning a change of course for our nation
and the saving of our people who do not understand what they read or observe.
We do note that the local kids attend school less and less because there is some
Report thiscontrived holiday closing schools on a routine and frequent basis. Few people, it
seems, want to engage in serious conversation. Those who have jobs work long
hours and are simply too exhausted I guess..I do hope you will write an analysis,
of what we regular folks could do to make a difference. It is become clear that
being active in political campaigning is next to worthless. Both sides acquit their
promises once in the power of politics.
By race_to_the_bottom, November 29, 2011 at 11:19 am Link to this comment
This is a good time to read a description of fascism in an earlier epoch, from 1935. Change a few things around and it doesn’t sound all that unfamiliar.
“Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.”
“The imperialist circles are trying to shift the whole burden of the crisis onto the shoulders of the working people. That is why they need fascism.”
“With the development of the very deep economic crisis, with the general crisis of capitalism becoming sharply accentuated and the mass of working people becoming revolutionized, fascism has embarked upon a wide offensive. The ruling bourgeoisie more and more seeks salvation in fascism, with the object of taking exceptional predatory measures against the working people, preparing for an imperialist war of plunder…”
Report thishttp://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htm
By DonSchneider, November 29, 2011 at 9:12 am Link to this comment
I bow to monsieur Lafayette ! Nothing more need be said !
Report thisBy DonSchneider, November 29, 2011 at 8:49 am Link to this comment
I Thank my lucky stars that some of us are actually tiring of this trite romp
through comic book land in search of superheroes to worship with five and six
“crapmakes” films. Who put DC comics in charge of literature selection ?
Ah yes crank out the Norris turds there is a world of ne 12 year old minds to
Report thiswander into !
By Forrest Greene, November 29, 2011 at 8:48 am Link to this comment
Hunter Thompson said it best: “Punks like this just get in the way when they try to be serious.”
Report thisBy Robespierre115, November 28, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment
@Ms_Anne_Thropy, the article was about more than just Miller if you bothered to actually read it, it was about the kind of nationalist, neofascist ideals promoted by corporate trash on the screen. You display a strange trend people cling to: Disconnecting what the artist produces from what he actually thinks. As the article points out, you can clearly see Miller’s toxic ideals in “300” and “Holy Terror.” There’s a reason why art is considered a form of EXPRESSION. It’s true some filmmakers find themselves doing work for hire to get by and then do their own passion projects (one recent example is Chris Weitz who made “Twilight: New Moon” and recently made the totally different “A Better Life”), but that’s not the case now with Miller and his graphic novels.
Report thisBy Ms_Anne_Thropy, November 28, 2011 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment
Frank Miller is one of the best writers of comic books ever. Does this make his opinions any more or less valuable than the opinion anyone else. Of course not, so why do his comments get everyone in an uproar. Because he is a celebrity, and somehow that seems to make his comments more important. Blame the cult of celebrity.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 28, 2011 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment
every generation has its own Frank Miller.
Report thisBy Raymond Peringer, November 28, 2011 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
I thought Gary Cooper shot Frank Miller dead in High Noon. Has he been dug up again? Or did he resurrect under his own power?
Report thisBy DonSchneider, November 28, 2011 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment
So Frank Miller is the self proclaimed Holy Knight Crusader charging off to battle
Report thisin support as the prime defender of “Walmart Hollywood”. Big Deal ! His tirade was
a simple minded effort to garner attention for himself as the “Condom of the far
right” thus distracting any attention away from his commode bowl of work !
By EmileZ, November 28, 2011 at 7:48 am Link to this comment
Frank Miller may be a crypto-facist crank, but I still love Elektra Assassin.
As for superhero movies, Superman III is to my mind the best.
The real offenders are films like “The Rules Of Engagement”, or “The Traitor”.
Report thisBy moonraven, November 28, 2011 at 3:53 am Link to this comment
Lafayette: Thanks for reminding folks about the universal policy of Bread and Circus for the masses.
Problem is, someone forgot about the bread.
But it’s about time you folks snapped to the fact that you are the masses—all this time you thought you were in the expensive seats, giving thumbs up or thumbs down.
Report thisBy Lafayette, November 28, 2011 at 1:36 am Link to this comment
THE DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA
Uhhh, very, very Orwell-ish. And borrinngg!
Which is a facile means for sweeping all America’s societal ills under a carpet and instead focusing upon the menace from some other country or some other planet or an asteroid plummeting into the earth’s atmosphere. Whereupon, instinctively, the Yanks all band together to triumph over evil.
How many times now has Bruce Willis saved the planet? The guy deserves the Medal of Honor!
The dumbing-down-of-America is replete with such infantile nonsense, which is why Americans have become so clueless as to what is happening to their country.
Let’s hope the OWS movement is indeed a wake-up call, but I have serious doubts that anything can awaken the grassroots up from its self-indulgent torpor.
Not much has changed since this Roman dictum prevailed during its Empire: “Give them bread and games”. Nowadays, pizza and the Rose Bowl on TV will do very nicely. Not quite as gripping visually as the lions ripping apart the early Christians - but attention getting nonetheless.
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, November 27, 2011 at 11:37 pm Link to this comment
Occupy WS should also occupy banks, FED and the Treasury Dept… for the FED owns the tribute-paying system ( the payment of interest / tribute for created debt instruments is the biggest fraud / ponzi scheme ever ).
It is an exciting time to be alive… for this is the first time EVER that practically the entire world is revolting against the hegemony..
Yet, before anyone occupies anything, first occupy your mind and find out what needs to be addressed first, and that is realizing that the individual in the states is a Sovereign ( like a king ) by Constitutional definition… and every public ‘official’ is their servant… but folks haven’t the faintest of ‘who’ they are.
Report thisBy serge, November 27, 2011 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
A culture at the end of its rope, continued
In the absence of historical understanding, events
can become surrounded by the most banal and clichéd
notions. Chapters in Miller’s book have titles like
“Honor,” “Duty,” “Glory” and “Victory.” These ideas
are hackneyed and empty and quickly become filled
with militarist sentiment.
Historical reality is richer, more complex and
ultimately a far more fertile ground for a film or a
graphic novel.
The Spartan soldiers came from a unique society, even
among the ancient Greeks. The Spartan was a member of
a ruling military class. He underwent relentless
training and exposure to the elements because his
social class was in a constant state of war with a
much larger group of oppressed helots, Greek-speaking
serfs, whose labor the Spartans exploited….
http://wsws.org/articles/2007/mar2007/300-m31.shtml
Report thisBy rumblingspire, November 27, 2011 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Mike Leigh film
working class couple visit Marxs tomb. good shot of inscriptions.
“we’re working towards the revolution!”
“well you’re waisting your time then ain’t ya.”
“well what do you do?”
“sit on me ass”
High Hopes (part 7)
Report thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7GCxfVdMwk&feature=BFa&list=PL1F4D6F3C69E4EFC6&lf=results_video
By mrfreeze, November 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm Link to this comment
heterochromatic -Actually, you’re on to something….
OWS is well-intended. It’s conflict with wealth disparity and all that is well-founded…would that the American public actually get off its collective fat-high-fructose-corn-syrup ass and truly do something about it.
No, there will be no revolution or backlash against Hollywood or any other corporations because, simply put, Americans are consumers and not citizens. As long as they can consume the garbage coming out of Hollywood, or Madison Avenue or Wall Street, that’s the extent of their patriotism and activism.
It’s not that the 99% don’t believe they are in the 99%. It’s that they’re easily distracted by the “easy way” of consumerism…...citizenship takes far more work…...
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 27, 2011 at 11:45 am Link to this comment
I’m kinda confused…. if Hollywood is about Miller and his stuff is the way to
maximize profits..
and he’s pissing on the Occupy movement…. does that mean that it’s possible that
Report thisthe 99% isn’t really behind the Occupy movement that says it represents the 99% ?
By mrfreeze, November 27, 2011 at 11:23 am Link to this comment
“Hollywood” is a business, a very powerful, profitable and influential business. It’s as simple as that. The old adage: “if you want to dine with the classes you must sell to the masses” is applied by Hollywood with ruthless efficiency. If it’s not Miller then it’s the endless outpouring of Disney fantasy crap. People are easily manipulated and truly enjoy what Hollywood produces because it appeals to the most basic (and some would say base) instincts we humans possess.
Hey people, it’s ALWAYS about maximizing profits….....
Report thisBy laundro, November 27, 2011 at 9:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
For a few pointing a gun at you and tying you up will always be “freedom”
Report thisto them, and they’ll still be the victim.
By Napolean DoneHisPart, November 27, 2011 at 8:12 am Link to this comment
The real WMD’s are broadcast via Hollywood channels.
WMD: Weapon of Mass Distraction / Delusion / Deception.
Report thisBy moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 6:55 am Link to this comment
My hands are too cold for typing here in Lisbon, where they do not HEAT anyplace!
This. “hey need Hollywood to produce their disinomation, and Hollywood needs them to bankroll what Coca Cola doesn’t.” should read:
THEY need Hollywood to produce their disinformation, and Hollywood needs them to bankroll what Coca Cola doesn’t.
Report thisBy moonraven, November 27, 2011 at 6:52 am Link to this comment
Local: He who pays calls the tune. Nothing new in that.
How else could they have brought you that mini-soap called The Assassination of Bin Laden?
Only 10 years after he passed on from kidney failure.
hey need Hollywood to produce their disinomation, and Hollywood needs them to bankroll what Coca Cola doesn’t.
Report thisBy LocalHero, November 27, 2011 at 3:17 am Link to this comment
The CIA spends as much time in Hollywood as any other prostitute except they’re calling the shots.
Report thisBy Robespierre115, November 27, 2011 at 2:57 am Link to this comment
Good to see someone writing about this topic. I know “liberals” love Bill Maher, but I cringe everytime he defends the Israeli occupation, Obama’s assassination policies and makes comments about Muslims that you couldn’t get away with if they were directed at other groups, figures etc. Salman Rushdie, Elie Wiesel and others have also fallen into the poisonous trap of nationalism, right-wing worship of blood and land cult myths.
As for Hollywood, it’s no surprise that clowns like Brad Pitt, Eva Mendes and Jolie go around promoting Ayn Rand.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment
My thoughts are
1) public officials can indeed be influenced by a small group of diligent
individuals if they’re careful and if they start with local officials and hone their
technique.
2) stay the hell away from any people telling you that you can exercise
sovereignty….. unless and until you’ve spent a few years studying our legal
system and the history of the common law in England in the centuries prior to
the American Constitution…..talking about exercising “sovereignty” rather than
understanding your rights and obligations under US and local law is a good way
to get tangled up in a mess.
but if you’re really interested in this stuff, or think that you might be, try
reading Bowen’s biography of Edward Coke, “The Lion and the Throne”.
If you want to read more and more deeply after that, I’ll be around here at least
a few weeks longer if you want other suggestions.
g’night.
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, November 26, 2011 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment
Thanks, cheers…. what are your thoughts regarding Sovereignty and the sort found on this yahoo groups page?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Administrating-Your-Public-Servants/
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment
we all start out getting a lot of information that really doesn’t fit what we see int
the field when we finally can see…..that’s when one has to sweep out all the trash
and really begin to learn…
and damned if things don’t look awfully bare and bleak for a while.
hang in there.
Report thisBy Napolean DoneHisPart, November 26, 2011 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment
No… you’re not.
I guess my brain is tired of all the madness, duplicity and duality…
Sometimes I wonder ‘which way is up?’ like the movie.
What I do know, is that what I was taught to understand and accept as capitalism and the Amerikan way being ‘better’ and righteous has faded away like a dream usually does soon after awakening… and now I see a jigsaw puzzle.. and the shapes on the board do not fit those in my mind.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment
no. fascism isn’t more about greed than capitalism or and fascism isn’t any better
control than other collectivist ideologies.
a generally got the sense that you weren’t really talking about fascist in any real
sense and think that you’re better off not describing people as fascists when you
don’t mean it.
you seem pretty well able to express yourself and I’m betting that you can easily
find the right words to express what you really mean.
Report thishope that I’m not control-freaking on you too heavy.
By Napolean DoneHisPart, November 26, 2011 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment
Hetero, big dude, I’m stating something aside from political protocol.
But am I wrong? Isn’t greed and control at the core of what fascism is defined to be?
Report thisBy Captain America (from Easy Rider, not the by-the-b, November 26, 2011 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Listen, this is the sad clod who ruined Will Eisner’s ‘The Spirit’. He wrote an interesting Batman story almost thirty years ago. He’s like Dennis Miller - sad, disenfranchised, egomaniacal, a little lost and easily ignored. And of course Hollywood has disgusting values: it created Brett Ratner.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
Nap, little dude, calling somebody a fascist because you think them selfish and
Report thiscold-hearted makes as much sense as calling them an anarchist.
By rumblingspire, November 26, 2011 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
here’s a sweet film for those who hunger. i recently discovered it and thought i might share. i’m sure this has never been shown in america, as a couple of sections would need censoring. listen to the teacher explain the purpose of education in the working class district.
OUR DAY OUT PART 1 1976 (bbc)
Report thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-YQE1whleo
By Napolean DoneHisPart, November 26, 2011 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment
What is interesting is if a fascist was to be called a fascist, he’d immediately envision some cold-war commy in his mind instead of realizing his selfish and self-centered view of life… and thus fail to realize his heart and ill-placed values may simply blind him from seeing his nearsightedness.
Report thisBy munky, November 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment
He’s one of those fascist fools who think Fannie and Freddie gave mortgages to poor people. I bet he often says “get over it” because my fascist brother uses the phrase all the time. If you got a problem with $3 trillion of our tax money dumped into the Iraqi hell hole, well ... “GET OVER IT” say the New American Fascists. We should call them “The New American Fascists.”
Report thisBy heterochromatic, November 26, 2011 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment
Frank Miller finds the occupy protesters to be acting like wankers and making us
look soft to the jihadists and Rick moody writes a wanky essay about Hollywood.
two wastes of time.
Report thisBy gerard, November 26, 2011 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment
One thing I worry about more than most other things: the explosive (or implosive) fragility of the world-view of the “hard right”: The “end times” myth, the lack of problem-solving and instead a stubborn resistance to facts and the complete rejection of creativity and invention. The inecessant efforts to force past failures on the present. The lack of flexiblity. The unforgiving set of destructive notions like “poor people do not deserve to eat, have a home, see a doctor when they are ill.” The end point has been reached when 99 to 1 is okay, and extraodinary rendition and collateral damage is okay, and “war is inevitable”.
Report thisHigh time we get busy and help the Occupiers!
By Napolean DoneHisPart, November 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment
Question:
Who IS Hollywood?
Who created that place?
And how have the messages, broadcast the world over, shaped and molded the psyches of almost every person who has ever seen the boob tube or a movie?
Recall those firings of reporters not too long ago ( Juan and the Cuban guy ) and how quickly they were eliminated?
Report this