The collaboration between director Oliver Stone and one-man political think tank Tariq Ali began not three years ago, but their mind-meld has already produced three projects spanning multiple continents and eras.
Stone gave a talk at Book Soup in Los Angeles last weekend to introduce their latest joint venture, the book “On History: Tariq Ali and Oliver Stone in Conversation,” a deceptively slim volume that delivers a hefty dose of historical analysis and commentary. “On History” is the print-based byproduct of hours of interviews Stone conducted with Ali—covering everything from the Russian Revolution to World War II, the Soviet Union and post-9/11 America—for two documentaries. The first, “South of the Border,” came out in 2009, and the second, a 13-part series with a title that promises more of the sort of provocative stuff Stone is known for, “The Untold History of the United States,” is slated for a 2012 release on Showtime.
Stone sat down to catch up with Truthdig about the book, working with Ali and the many places his own political and professional instincts have taken him. The full interview will air on next week’s edition of Truthdig Radio (that would be Wednesday at 2 p.m. Pacific time on KPFK). We’ll post that broadcast on our site as a podcast too. But in the meantime, here’s a transcript of what Stone had to say about the Occupy Wall Street movement at that particular moment.
Kasia Anderson: I wonder if you have a reaction or any statement about Occupy Wall Street and the movements going on on both the domestic and international levels, feeding into the conversations you and Tariq Ali had for this book.
Oliver Stone: I made some comments in The New York Times; it’s on DealB%k. We’d screened “Salvador” the night before at the New York Film Festival’s 25th anniversary, so “Salvador” was done in 1986, and there [were], oddly enough, street protests all over that movie. And you see the results: The death squads come in and they kill people, and they basically slaughtered in Central America the entire protest class. They slaughtered teachers, nuns, bishops priests and labor union agitators—everybody who was for reform got killed by these death squads.
And I was thinking about these protests in the film, and the next morning I went to Occupy Wall Street, and it was so peaceful. You don’t get a sense there that you’re going to be set upon by machine-gun-toting thugs who are going to cart you off and kill you, you know, there is a sense of security, and that undercuts the concept of the real protests. Seattle ’99 was rougher. But I certainly admire their desire for reform.
But the bankers have to laugh at this, I mean, they’re gonna shrug and keep walking. Nothing is going to affect them except the Volcker Bill, which is where it all matters. I was reading today in some article that the Volcker bill was originally three pages by [Paul] Volcker. … He wrote a three-page memo that’s now become 250 pages of dense bureaucratic exceptionalism. So, it’s very hard to get anything through in this era of lawyers and specialization, but essentially the Glass-Steagall Act has to be restored. So, you know, the bankers—everyone knows what they did wrong. They had a feast, and they partied on other people’s money, basically, and they continue to party, although I think there are some changes.
So, I wish them well, but I don’t know if the culture can change, because Wall Street is not just Wall Street it’s also Washington, and that’s a big. … I would occupy Washington. I think Washington is the one that needs to be changed the most, but you know, they tried. The Iraq War demonstrations were the biggest ever. More people objected to that war, and yet that was played down and basically trivialized by the media. So it’s a tough time.
Grab the power. Grab the power. ... Get these people out of office. Democrat, Republican—it makes no difference.
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I’m feeling a bit confrontational today so I’ll step in the shit IMax and OM are throwing around. Being half way around the world given one immunity from their stupid threats. Where to begin?
After our parents died, my brother and I were given to my aunt and uncle to raise. Being true conservatives, my new family couldn’t let my dad’s body grow cold before they found another gig for us, as residents of an orphanage run by the Masons. On holidays and during the summer we were privileged to spend either weekends or a few weeks with them at their home north of Chicago. I got to know my uncle pretty well during those short visits. It was eye-opening.
He was a product of the depression and wore that experience like a badge of honor. A man of limited education, he was lucky and spent the bad years running a small switch engine in a steel foundry. During the war he avoided any fighting and managed to advance upward in the company until, when he retired, he was a senior executive. He was, if memory serves me, a card carrying member of the John Burch society and a massive bigot. He saw life, as do so many conservatives, in black and white. You were either a Republican and conservative or a communist. There was no in between. I was a Democrat and thus a member of this latter community. I can still remember my wife (who was even more radical than I was and loved to rub his fur the wrong way) casually mentioning we went to listen to a lecture by William Kuntsler, (the radical lawyer) after his involvement in the Chicago 7 trials. My uncle’s face went beet red and he exploded, threatening to throw me out of the house for such a heinous violation of all things just and true. Mentioning that we had also gone to see Sander Vanocher (the ABC news reporter) and Sebastin Cabot (the actor) reading Winny the Pooh didn’t calm his fervor one bit. The house was tense for the remainder of our stay. To say that infraction colored the remainder of our relationship would be an understatement.
My cousin was a similar radical and relished rubbing his nose in any crap she could find. She was always bring home ‘strays’ (my uncle’s words, not mine) ... men she knew from school. The first was an academic from Afghanistan who wanted to marry her and make her his number one wife. That went over like a lead balloon and soon he was dispatched back to the shadows. The next was a black man ... someone I really liked and found to be very smart and articulate. My uncle, true to his bigotry, went to his death bed and refused to emerge until she agreed never to see him again. As a result, both cousins married lesser men who my uncle grudgingly endorsed.
Now why would I bring up such a morbid story? Throughout my live I’ve run across other conservatives who were much like my uncle. Bigoted, narrow minded and rigid as a steel beam. They all saw life as black and white. Nuance went right over their head. No matter how much logic and facts you threw at them, they were unmoved. Reasoning with a conservative is like trying to fit a square peg through a round hole. You’re wasting your time.
IMax: hundreds of reports? Sure you’re not reading the same news story over and over? And have you forgotten those loaded guns at rallies and the Tea Baggers screaming and threatening others who disagreed with them at those town halls? Seems to me the TBs are just as violent as any OWS demonstrator. Also ... please try to differentiate between assaults coming from a demonstrator and police violence directed at them. There is a difference although I know that’s hard to understand. Cops do cause a lot of damage just being cops. Someone calling a cop names is not exactly the same as beating a demonstrator over the head with a nightstick or shooting him in the head with a tear gas canister.
ardee, October 31 at 4:19 am:
Anarcissie, October 30 at 8:06 am Link to this comment
“I’ll say it again: If you think power should be ‘grabbed’, go ahead and do it. Don’t expect OWS or someone else to do it for you. They’ve done their job, which was to open up a certain space, a certain opportunity, in a formerly closed system. Now it’s your turn. What are you doing, other than typing stuff in a computer about what other people should do?”
I know I should leave you to stew in the shit you have posted here; the deceptions, the refusal to read and respond with any accuracy to the positions stated, as you continue to do in this latest piece of crap.
Where have I, or anyone involved in the attempt to portray social democracy suggested “grabbing power”. ...’
I have no idea what you’re talking about. It was Oliver Stone who referred to ‘grabbing power’—see the main article. A number of people commenting here seem to admire his thought and work, or at least his idea of ‘grabbing power’. His advice to OWS was part of a category I find at once ludicrous and tedious, hence my counter-advice: instead of telling OWS what to do, go do it yourself.
Not everything is about you, astonishing as that may seem. Anyway, I hope this helps you get over your latest fit of petulance.
Incidentally, you’re wasting your time arguing with iMax; he, she or it is a troll, or possibly a professional propagandist. I haven’t mentioned the fallacy of composition for nothing; it’s a standard technique of atrocity propaganda, in which a single incident (which may have been staged) is held to taint a large category of people who had nothing whatever to do with it, who may indeed have been thousands of miles away when it supposedly occurred.
“The Iraq War demonstrations were the biggest ever. More people objected to that war, and yet that was played down and basically trivialized by the media.”
“Why does it matter? The death of JFK remains a critical turning point in our history. Those who caused his death were targeting not just a man but a vision — a vision of peace. There is no calculating the consequences of his death for this country and for the world. Those consequences endure. To a large extent, the fate of our country and the future of the planet continue to be controlled by the shadowy forces of what Douglass calls ‘the Unspeakable.’ Only by unmasking these forces and confronting the truth about our history can we restore the promise of democracy and lay claim to Kennedy’s vision of peace.”
You are free to dispute the fact that we all see hundreds of examples of violence and destruction attached to OWS across the nation. The fact that real people are being hurt by these protestors in nearly every city they ‘Occupy’.
Your personal attacks against any opposition is not nearly good enough, is it?
Please, keep it to the facts and try not to make it personal.
The idea that any political change can be achieved
without some degree of violence is childish, Disney
like thinking. The key thing to remember, however, is
the violence can either be initiated by the people
demanding change, or it can be perpetrated against
those demanding change. Either way, I challenge anybody
on Truthdig to show me an example of revolutionary
change that was achieved without either or both of the
above.
Anarcissie, October 30 at 8:06 am Link to this comment
I’ll say it again: If you think power should be ‘grabbed’, go ahead and do it. Don’t expect OWS or someone else to do it for you. They’ve done their job, which was to open up a certain space, a certain opportunity, in a formerly closed system. Now it’s your turn. What are you doing, other than typing stuff in a computer about what other people should do?
I know I should leave you to stew in the shit you have posted here; the deceptions, the refusal to read and respond with any accuracy to the positions stated, as you continue to do in this latest piece of crap.
Where have I, or anyone involved in the attempt to portray social democracy suggested “grabbing power”. The entire point of that political movement is a natural ,almost evolutionary change to socialism. This has been iterated and reiterated so many times that your refusal to acknowledge it, and your continuing attempts to distort it are both tiresome and loathsome.
As to your childishness in assuming that I , or anyone else is doing nothing, well, you seem increasingly childish, and ,sadly, dishonest of late. I trust it isnt a health issue.
You haven’t a single clue as to what I, or anyone here, is doing or not doing. We , on the other hand, have more than a clue as to your problems with truth and honesty.
What amazes me is how this violence has been so obviously and steadily growing before everyone’s eyes but, yet, we have those here who seem genuinely saddened and amazed that more isn’t being done to aid in this activity.
Poster gerard seems to be nearly always writing on the subject of non-violence and conflict resolution but, oddly enough, appears to be these children’s most ardent defenders and booster (lets get them out of the cold and feed them?) - No offense gerard but, nothing you write makes sense to me now. - Violence, Yes, if that violence represents our frustration over our point of view? Or are we just so willing to ignore rampant violence for the attention it brings our cause? - How many times did you and others talk up the potential dangers of the ‘Tea people’ at a time when there was no real violence displayed anywhere?
I have done a simple search of local on-line newspapers in those cities that have seen some of the larger protests. There have been hundreds of assaults on individuals and businesses across the country. - In Oakland one sign on display read “All My Heroes Kill Cops!” Ive seen news reports, with accompanying photos, displaying a “Anti-Cop Rock Toss” target board displaying exactly where to hit a police officer to cause the most injury. Oakland protesters did everything they could to get people hurt.
I was a damned fool. I am thoroughly ashamed of having associated myself with this.
<blockquote> heterochromatic, October 30 at 7:38 pm:
‘IMax….maybe if you actually read your link instead of just bullshitting you would have seen what it ACTUALLY said….’
This is just standard-issue stuff all activists become familiar with. It’s not yet anywhere near the torrent of vilification the Civil Rights movement received, although if OWS’s ideas begin to get any serious traction, the sky’s the limit.
redteddy——sorry to piss on your torch, but the protesters can have an indoor
place to stay anytime that they want one…or several…..
they’re actively looking at places to rent and have already rented a place to store
their extra stuff.
it’s the protesters who wish to remain outdoors and in the Park…it’s their “thing”
...and when they move to winter quarters they plan on leaving a “presence” out
there until warm weather returns and, presumable, they go back to being full-time
Occupiers.
@Bob Zimway who wrote: ” By next summer concessions should have already been
made, not grabbed, from the towers.”
Why? Why would anyone ‘from the towers’ make any concessions? How does OWS
threaten them in any meaningful way? And Washington? How is this affecting
government? The only way you will see concessions being made is if there is an
open revolt which includes massive strikes. Otherwise I don’t see how this
movement, as much as I love it, can force concessions by next summer. The
beauty of what happened in Egypt is that it was MASSIVE, it included such huge
numbers from across the board that it couldn’t be ignored. We have to wait for
this movement to build the same momentum but I doubt it will happen by next
summer. Things have to get worst before the rest of the 99% are on board.
@Gerard who wrote: “Amazes me how some big shot can go down to Occupy
Wall Street and make assinine comments about how “there is a sense of
security, and that undercuts the concept of the real protests…
...It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a place or
places to put these kids up for a while indoors. Some university or college?
This is exactly his point. In the places he is referring to no one would even
expect that a city, no matter how rich would give OWS a place to stay indoors.
The whole point of government and the financial sector is to end the protests,
make them uncomfortable, make it difficult for the movement to grow and
continue. The fact that you even think its feasible for the city to award the
movement with something like housing in winter undercuts the statement of
how secure we still feel in our society; that we can actually believe government
will do that when they allow homelessness and foreclosure on a regular basis.
ABC News’ Olivia Katrandjian reports:
Video posted by the group Occupy Wall St from the eighth day of protests
against corporations show police using Tasers and mace to control the crowd,
which the group says has only made it more committed to keep up the
demonstrations in lower Manhattan for the long haul.
A New York Police Department spokeswoman today confirmed the group’s
claim that approximately 80 people were arrested Saturday, mainly for
disorderly conduct and obstructing vehicular and pedestrian traffic.
“One person was arrested for assaulting a police officer,” she said.
She added that no arrests have been made today.
The spokeswoman could not confirm whether police officers are using mace,
Tasers or netting against protesters.
One woman wave of violence, IMax????????
are you silly or dishonest?
your other link is to a NYPD sgt threatening to sue any one who hurts a cop, not
a tale that police are being attacked.
This is one example of hundreds from every city Occupy has ‘occupied’. We now have no right to suggest the Tea Movement was dangerous.
-IMax
Imax, you dont understand that the Tea Party is dangerous because they are evil. OWS is safe because they are good. Dont let the complicated facts get in the way.
OWS is just the 200 at Zuccotti Park, which initially was white college grads without jobs, several of whom have some interesting communist and anarchist type ideologies.
They were of course hoping for widespread support across the nation and even the world.
They got what they wanted. As a result, whenever we tally the strength of OWS we have the 99% Everyone Occupy Everywhere, including all the misbehaving and law breaking folks. We include the protests all over the world. This is big! This is the power of the Left at last!
True, part of the tally that gets OWS to 99% is David Duke and other Nazis, anti-semites, criminals, predators, propagandists, mobsters, malcontents, and a cadre of violent Leftist radicals. There are crimes and confrontations, and there will be more soon. Truthdig wont let us link to such reports. Thats a good thing because such reports are bad for you to know about. I see you slipped one in. SHAME!
Wwhen we want to assess the morality of Occupy Wall Street, we dont count those people. Nor do we count the anarchists in Rome who broke things and torched cars. We only count the 200. Well, not all of them. Only the nice ones. But we dont even count them all the time, we only attribute their behaviour to OWS if they are lookin’ rightious and peaceful. If they get caught lying or threatening someone we temporarily exclude them from OWS today even though we counted them as OWS yesterday and we will again count them as OWS tomorrow.
Its not hard to understand, Imax. You just need faith in the cause, a la Eric Hoffer’s True Believer.
You have to accept the contradictions. You should overlook it because you are so angry at Wall Street. You have to accept that there is no standard to judge OWS by. However, everything standard and judgement you make against the Tea Party still stands. Dont forget that.
Arent you mad at Wall Street? Do you want to change the system? If so, stop thinking of yourself as an individual who has to distinguish between right and wrong. Drink your kool-aid like a good Leftist. Everyone else here does!
This is what you find on any search engine in less than two minutes. It’s not possible to claim OWS in New York is different. Simply not possible. You have GOT TO BE looking away from real human events to make such a claim. There are literally hundreds of examples of violence and destruction associated with OWS NY in the past month.
I support none of this. This is wrong.
Occupy Wall Street Violence | Officers Injured | NY Post | Mediaite http://www.mediaite.com/.../ny-city-police-official-we-will-sue-any-occupy...
2 days ago – The recent violent confrontations between law enforcement officials and protesters in Oakland, Times Square, and elsewhere have captured ...
Violence Breaks Out During ‘Occupy Wall Street’ - CBS New York
newyork.cbslocal.com/.../violence-breaks-out-during-occupy-wall-str…
Oct 14, 2011 – Among the most notable incidents on Friday happened when one man lost his balance, and was run over by a police scooter.
Violent Crime Up in New York City as Police Distracted by Occupy ...
townhall.com/...
violent_crime_up_in_new_york_city_as_police_dist..
6 days ago – As the Occupy Wall Street drug parties protests continue in New York city, violent crime is running rampant as police resources are being ...
Sep 25, 2011 – A New York Police Department spokeswoman today confirmed the group’s ... ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows Police ...
Oct 6, 2011 – Violence Follows Occupy Wall Street March | NY1 News is Time Warner Cable’s 24-hour newschannel in New York City, delivering breaking ...
Imax, from a comfortable distance, keep an eye on OWS in NYC. they’ve not been
violent or misguided, although they’ve been quite naive in welcoming NYs real
street people.
They may stick around a while and find a way forward. It’s rather early days for
them and perhaps a little unfair to expect them to act better than they have. All in
all, they’ve done OK
IMax, I think that OWS (which exists only in NYC) can not be said to be responsible
for the actions of imitations. as well, OWS will not long mourn your withdrawal of
support.
don’t worry too much. they won’t be trampling you as you make your way out the
door.
This has got to stop. It’s not possible to support these protests any longer. Not like this. These things are happening nearly everywhere.
Home » News » Crime Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally
By PAT GROSSMITH
New Hampshire Union Leader
Published Oct 28, 2011 at 10:15 am (Updated Oct 28, 2011)
Today I am thoroughly embarrassed to have given my support to these petulant and ignorant children.
These protests have gone completely wrong. The ‘Occupods’, as these protests are being called, will accomplish nothing but strengthen the right/far right vote.
This is one example of hundreds from every city Occupy has ‘occupied’. We now have no right to suggest the Tea Movement was dangerous.
This must stop.
Coast Guard in Boston confirmed that a woman in uniform was harassed and spat upon near Occupy Boston protesters.
The woman was walking to the train and protesters spit on her twice, called her foul names and even threw a water bottle at her.
Now, the Coast Guard is warning all staff working on Atlantic Avenue to avoid those protesters while in uniform.
Grab doesn’t work for me. Not that seize is any better. Anyway, this is a siege. By
next summer concessions should have already been made, not grabbed, from the
towers.
Having made such an outlandish suggestion as that we (99%) should “take care of our own” to avoid them having to suffer cold and wet for no good reason when indoor space is available ... yeah!
I’ll go on a bit farther.
This movement has a good chance of beginning to push for needed changes for the benefit of approx.99% of us—that is, you and me. So far we haven’t done much ourselves but wait for someone (them) to open the gate for us. So they’ve opened the gate.
Where are we? The educated former middle class beginning to feel the pinch—not to mention, of course—the huge percent of the 99% of us who are really hurting. Where are we? Writing blogs? Some of us are so old we can’t do much more. But we are a small % of the big %, many of us having spent a lot of time doing more than blogging! Getting old happens.
My plea is, find a place to give these (mostly) young people a chance to do a job they won’t ever be paid for that might make a difference we can’t make without them. Such spaces are available in a city with the facilities and wealth of New York. They can go back out when the weather clears—or not depending on their decision. It just stands to reason that this gathering is as good as any other “convention” isn’t it? The money could be raised. Our support without co-optation? Yeah, why not? We’re the “Vietnam/Civil Rights” people, aren’t we?
What would George Washington do? (“With winter almost set in, and the prospects for campaigning greatly diminishing, General George Washington sought quarters for his men.”(good ole Wiki!) What would Thomas Jefferson do? Tom Paine? Abe Lincoln? Henry Thoreau? Seriously.
This is the country that spends trillions on violence, right? Not one cent for beginning to figure out the specifics for other ways to solve our problems? Where’s the imaginatioin? Where’s the faith? Where’s the joy? Don’t you see this
movement in its histsorical context? This is an opportunity and an obligation.
I’ll say it again: If you think power should be ‘grabbed’, go ahead and do it. Don’t expect OWS or someone else to do it for you. They’ve done their job, which was to open up a certain space, a certain opportunity, in a formerly closed system. Now it’s your turn. What are you doing, other than typing stuff in a computer about what other people should do?
Ever since the Occupations started there has been an avalanche of blather: ‘What OWS must do now!’ ‘What OWS should have done—my brilliant idea.’ ‘The future of OWS according to me.’ Why don’t you people go do something yourselves, if you’re so smart? This is not entirely a rhetorical question.
In my two plus years at this forum I had previously considered the posts of Anarcissie to be well worth the read and the associated thought provoking quality therein.
I do not know who has usurped this posters place at the forum but I trust that the real poster will return shortly and we can once again be treated to posts with an actual substance to them.
“Oliver Stone’s advice is, of course, junk. The point of OWS is to break up the power, not grab it.”
And how do you “break up the power” without organizing to overthrow the current system? You expect Obama and the powerful to just get annoyed or wake up one morning and say “gee, those kids out there are right!” Wake up and dump the postmodernism.
I think it is necessary to be outdoors and in the agora. If I were Bloomie and wanted to get rid of OWS I would kindly give them a nice big warm loft somewhere.
Oliver Stone’s advice is, of course, junk. The point of OWS is to break up the power, not grab it. If he wants to grab the power, then let him go out and grab it, if he thinks he knows how, and spare OWS his advice (to do his work for him).
gerard——Me? It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a
place or places to put these kids up for a while indoors.——-
WTF are you talking about????? there out there only because they want to be.
it’s not like they have no place to go…..or don’t have half a million donated bucks
....they’re looking to rent winter quarters….are already renting storage space for
their extra possessions.
Amazes me how some big shot can go down to Occupy Wall Street and make assinine comments about how “there is a sense of security, and that undercuts the concept of the real protests.”
Like, why don’t you, Oliver Stone, take a tent and a sleeping bag and go down in the wet and cold and snow and see what your “sense of security” does for you?
Me? It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a place or places to put these kids up for a while indoors. Some university or college?
Some “think tank” (what are they THINKING?)? Some YWCA/YMCA/Muslim Center/Jewish Center. Some real estate offices that know of some empty buildings in good shape, or empty rooms. Or even some families that could start a race to be “host families”? If it’s the length of time, discuss that, work it out together, get with what is happening and what a great opportunity it is for New York, not to mention the confused and hopelessly unequal USA.
Scott Olsen’s injuries are looking more like he may have been trampled. If correct this changes the narrative considerably.
I believe these types of actions, by OWS protesters, will be the cause of dwindling support for Occupy protests.
What are Americans seeing? Americans are hearing and seeing rats, vandalism, rapes and fights attached to OWS crowds. They’re seeing refusals to move or bend for others. Others who have every right to open their bakery in the morning across the street - without a propane canister through the door - or refusals to keep protesters within bounds, as millions of protesters have before them. This all-out defiance, wide-spread destruction, will not help in raising real ‘OWS’ issues and the national dialog.
We should take a lesson from the Tea Movement. 500,000 people turned out across the country in a single day without incident of violence or destruction. The Tea movement then left their protests and went home to be even more active in state and national politics. This movement went on to effect the entire 2010 elections from coast to coast. It is still effecting the legislative agenda today.
I can no longer support OWS. The tactics and direction is not only wrong, I believe it will prove completely ineffective. I believe it will, in very real terms, strengthen the ‘Tea’ vote in 2012.
By berneredfeather, October 29, 2011 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
1% speaks to 99%, “I hear you knocking but you can’t come in.” Time and money
are on their side so they can wait for ever. The 1% are really not the problem the
real problem is those who are unemployed, who are underpaid, who have no
healthcare, who have no pension, who can’t send their kids to college and and
those who have mental health issues. The basic human right of humans to use the
the resources of the planet is lost to those own those human rights. Through the
fraud of economics and democracy are prevented from acquiring the natural
resources they need for survival. What is the percentage of population in this
category? 40%-50%? The 1% can just plug their ears, stifle the media and wait for
40% to give up hope again and go home.
Don’t knock Stone for his spotlight. I don’t hear anyone knocking Moore or
Sarandon for theirs when they engage themselves politically or show up to OWS. I
don’t begrudge these people their success or money or even their influence, they
have a right to their opinions like everything else. Your post only allows nay
sayers ammunition when they accuse OWS of suffering from sour grapes. Let’s
remember who the real villains are, Stone isn’t one of them.
Oliver Stone is certainly worth hearing out - to a point.
One can see that point in the vast chasm between his preaching and his practicing.
He loves to tell others what to do.
But for himself, he reserves the right to cultivate his addiction to spotlights. Devotion to the addiction has led him to create some compelling movies. The Platoon story carried itself, but El Salvador was brilliant; again the story carried itself. His Wall Street stuff is more glaring spotlights than substantive revelation about the poverty of prevailing US economic and political theories.
Rather like Obama, GWB, Bill Clinton, GHWG, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, Ike…. and all the wannabe saviors to grace the US industrial screens and noise boxes. Except these latter don’t even have a good movie to their claims. Only the by-products of their increasingly and astonishingly vulgar self-promotions.
While Stone notes the levels of violence against demonstrators living under South American dictators and compares that unfavorably to our own violence against OWS so far this movement has just begun.
While no one seriously expects the butchery of a dictatorship towards protest here I think Stone might soft pedal both the current violence by the police and the potential for escalating future violence. Unlike South American nations we have a constitutional guarantee of assembly and of free speech. Someone tell the various mayors, city councils and police chiefs please.
By Stephen Boni, October 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Stone just sounds tired here. In fact, he sounds like a mainstream Democrat who
lost his passion years ago. His comments reflect a lack of imagination about what
OWS is and what it can become. Legislation is one tiny little piece of a broad
mosaic of possibilities for bringing active citizenship back into play as a check on
the power of wealth and privilege.
Respectfully, I find his comments largely irrelevant and out of touch. Listen to
some Richard Wolff and regard someone with a much better grasp of our current
realities:
There is a difference; the Democrats give you a shot of procaine before they screw
you. That’s why Obama is getting his money from the fat cats and damn little from
the rest of us. Wake up. The Republicans are not the problem. They are the enemy,
and we know what we can expect from them. Our problem is the mainstream
Democratic Party, fat cats all, who continually betray us; the progressives are a
minority in the Party. Support them, not Obama and his buddies in Congress.
There is a difference; the Democrats give you a shot of procaine before they screw
you. That’s why Obama is getting his money from the fat cats and damn little from
the rest of us. Wake up. The Republicans are not the problem. They are the enemy,
and we know what we can expect from them. Our problem is the mainstream
Democratic Party, fat cats all, who continually betray us; the progressives are a
minority in the Party.
The South and Central American experience is illustrative of the problem we are
facing. Repression in Latin America succeeded because Washington supported the
oppression ( and killing) of the reformers. The overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala
during the Eisenhower administration is a prime example. After the overthrow the
CIA wanted to kill Arbenz (and probably his family), but the new ruling party
vetoed it and allowed the family to go into exile. Recently the current Guatemala
government extended an apology to the Arbenz family.
It is important for us to understand the malevolence of our government and what
we are up against in seeking meaningful reform. Stone is aware of this.
Stone is a worthy heir to the legacy of directors like Costa-Gavras and Gillo Pontecorvo. Americans would do well to check out “South Of The Border,” our neighbors down south have already experience the great economic crisis and are taking the power back.
Quelle Surprise! Haiti on the Mend
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By C.Curtis.Dillon, October 31, 2011 at 8:34 am Link to this comment
I’m feeling a bit confrontational today so I’ll step in the shit IMax and OM are throwing around. Being half way around the world given one immunity from their stupid threats. Where to begin?
After our parents died, my brother and I were given to my aunt and uncle to raise. Being true conservatives, my new family couldn’t let my dad’s body grow cold before they found another gig for us, as residents of an orphanage run by the Masons. On holidays and during the summer we were privileged to spend either weekends or a few weeks with them at their home north of Chicago. I got to know my uncle pretty well during those short visits. It was eye-opening.
He was a product of the depression and wore that experience like a badge of honor. A man of limited education, he was lucky and spent the bad years running a small switch engine in a steel foundry. During the war he avoided any fighting and managed to advance upward in the company until, when he retired, he was a senior executive. He was, if memory serves me, a card carrying member of the John Burch society and a massive bigot. He saw life, as do so many conservatives, in black and white. You were either a Republican and conservative or a communist. There was no in between. I was a Democrat and thus a member of this latter community. I can still remember my wife (who was even more radical than I was and loved to rub his fur the wrong way) casually mentioning we went to listen to a lecture by William Kuntsler, (the radical lawyer) after his involvement in the Chicago 7 trials. My uncle’s face went beet red and he exploded, threatening to throw me out of the house for such a heinous violation of all things just and true. Mentioning that we had also gone to see Sander Vanocher (the ABC news reporter) and Sebastin Cabot (the actor) reading Winny the Pooh didn’t calm his fervor one bit. The house was tense for the remainder of our stay. To say that infraction colored the remainder of our relationship would be an understatement.
My cousin was a similar radical and relished rubbing his nose in any crap she could find. She was always bring home ‘strays’ (my uncle’s words, not mine) ... men she knew from school. The first was an academic from Afghanistan who wanted to marry her and make her his number one wife. That went over like a lead balloon and soon he was dispatched back to the shadows. The next was a black man ... someone I really liked and found to be very smart and articulate. My uncle, true to his bigotry, went to his death bed and refused to emerge until she agreed never to see him again. As a result, both cousins married lesser men who my uncle grudgingly endorsed.
Now why would I bring up such a morbid story? Throughout my live I’ve run across other conservatives who were much like my uncle. Bigoted, narrow minded and rigid as a steel beam. They all saw life as black and white. Nuance went right over their head. No matter how much logic and facts you threw at them, they were unmoved. Reasoning with a conservative is like trying to fit a square peg through a round hole. You’re wasting your time.
IMax: hundreds of reports? Sure you’re not reading the same news story over and over? And have you forgotten those loaded guns at rallies and the Tea Baggers screaming and threatening others who disagreed with them at those town halls? Seems to me the TBs are just as violent as any OWS demonstrator. Also ... please try to differentiate between assaults coming from a demonstrator and police violence directed at them. There is a difference although I know that’s hard to understand. Cops do cause a lot of damage just being cops. Someone calling a cop names is not exactly the same as beating a demonstrator over the head with a nightstick or shooting him in the head with a tear gas canister.
Report thisBy Anarcissie, October 31, 2011 at 8:03 am Link to this comment
I have no idea what you’re talking about. It was Oliver Stone who referred to ‘grabbing power’—see the main article. A number of people commenting here seem to admire his thought and work, or at least his idea of ‘grabbing power’. His advice to OWS was part of a category I find at once ludicrous and tedious, hence my counter-advice: instead of telling OWS what to do, go do it yourself.
Not everything is about you, astonishing as that may seem. Anyway, I hope this helps you get over your latest fit of petulance.
Incidentally, you’re wasting your time arguing with iMax; he, she or it is a troll, or possibly a professional propagandist. I haven’t mentioned the fallacy of composition for nothing; it’s a standard technique of atrocity propaganda, in which a single incident (which may have been staged) is held to taint a large category of people who had nothing whatever to do with it, who may indeed have been thousands of miles away when it supposedly occurred.
Report thisBy thecrow, October 31, 2011 at 5:28 am Link to this comment
“The Iraq War demonstrations were the biggest ever. More people objected to that war, and yet that was played down and basically trivialized by the media.”
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/talking-head-like-a-hole/
Report thisBy thecrow, October 31, 2011 at 5:15 am Link to this comment
“Why does it matter? The death of JFK remains a critical turning point in our history. Those who caused his death were targeting not just a man but a vision — a vision of peace. There is no calculating the consequences of his death for this country and for the world. Those consequences endure. To a large extent, the fate of our country and the future of the planet continue to be controlled by the shadowy forces of what Douglass calls ‘the Unspeakable.’ Only by unmasking these forces and confronting the truth about our history can we restore the promise of democracy and lay claim to Kennedy’s vision of peace.”
- Oliver Stone
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/he-who-controls-the-past/
Report thisBy IMax, October 31, 2011 at 4:51 am Link to this comment
ardee,
You are free to dispute the fact that we all see hundreds of examples of violence and destruction attached to OWS across the nation. The fact that real people are being hurt by these protestors in nearly every city they ‘Occupy’.
Your personal attacks against any opposition is not nearly good enough, is it?
Please, keep it to the facts and try not to make it personal.
Report thisBy Billy Pilgrim, October 31, 2011 at 4:32 am Link to this comment
The idea that any political change can be achieved
Report thiswithout some degree of violence is childish, Disney
like thinking. The key thing to remember, however, is
the violence can either be initiated by the people
demanding change, or it can be perpetrated against
those demanding change. Either way, I challenge anybody
on Truthdig to show me an example of revolutionary
change that was achieved without either or both of the
above.
By ardee, October 31, 2011 at 4:21 am Link to this comment
IMax, October 30 at 9:32 pm
I trust you do not believe that your silliness is having any effect whatsoever on the opinions and positions of the sane here.
Your lies are so blatantly silly as to make yourself a caricature.
Are you the return of Rico perhaps?
Report thisBy ardee, October 31, 2011 at 4:19 am Link to this comment
Anarcissie, October 30 at 8:06 am Link to this comment
I’ll say it again: If you think power should be ‘grabbed’, go ahead and do it. Don’t expect OWS or someone else to do it for you. They’ve done their job, which was to open up a certain space, a certain opportunity, in a formerly closed system. Now it’s your turn. What are you doing, other than typing stuff in a computer about what other people should do?
I know I should leave you to stew in the shit you have posted here; the deceptions, the refusal to read and respond with any accuracy to the positions stated, as you continue to do in this latest piece of crap.
Where have I, or anyone involved in the attempt to portray social democracy suggested “grabbing power”. The entire point of that political movement is a natural ,almost evolutionary change to socialism. This has been iterated and reiterated so many times that your refusal to acknowledge it, and your continuing attempts to distort it are both tiresome and loathsome.
As to your childishness in assuming that I , or anyone else is doing nothing, well, you seem increasingly childish, and ,sadly, dishonest of late. I trust it isnt a health issue.
You haven’t a single clue as to what I, or anyone here, is doing or not doing. We , on the other hand, have more than a clue as to your problems with truth and honesty.
Report thisBy IMax, October 30, 2011 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment
OzarkMichael,
What amazes me is how this violence has been so obviously and steadily growing before everyone’s eyes but, yet, we have those here who seem genuinely saddened and amazed that more isn’t being done to aid in this activity.
Poster gerard seems to be nearly always writing on the subject of non-violence and conflict resolution but, oddly enough, appears to be these children’s most ardent defenders and booster (lets get them out of the cold and feed them?) - No offense gerard but, nothing you write makes sense to me now. - Violence, Yes, if that violence represents our frustration over our point of view? Or are we just so willing to ignore rampant violence for the attention it brings our cause? - How many times did you and others talk up the potential dangers of the ‘Tea people’ at a time when there was no real violence displayed anywhere?
I have done a simple search of local on-line newspapers in those cities that have seen some of the larger protests. There have been hundreds of assaults on individuals and businesses across the country. - In Oakland one sign on display read “All My Heroes Kill Cops!” Ive seen news reports, with accompanying photos, displaying a “Anti-Cop Rock Toss” target board displaying exactly where to hit a police officer to cause the most injury. Oakland protesters did everything they could to get people hurt.
I was a damned fool. I am thoroughly ashamed of having associated myself with this.
Report thisBy Anarcissie, October 30, 2011 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment
<blockquote>
Report thisheterochromatic, October 30 at 7:38 pm:
‘IMax….maybe if you actually read your link instead of just bullshitting you would have seen what it ACTUALLY said….’
This is just standard-issue stuff all activists become familiar with. It’s not yet anywhere near the torrent of vilification the Civil Rights movement received, although if OWS’s ideas begin to get any serious traction, the sky’s the limit.
By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment
redteddy——sorry to piss on your torch, but the protesters can have an indoor
place to stay anytime that they want one…or several…..
they’re actively looking at places to rent and have already rented a place to store
their extra stuff.
Report thisit’s the protesters who wish to remain outdoors and in the Park…it’s their “thing”
...and when they move to winter quarters they plan on leaving a “presence” out
there until warm weather returns and, presumable, they go back to being full-time
Occupiers.
By redteddy, October 30, 2011 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment
@Bob Zimway who wrote: ” By next summer concessions should have already been
made, not grabbed, from the towers.”
Why? Why would anyone ‘from the towers’ make any concessions? How does OWS
Report thisthreaten them in any meaningful way? And Washington? How is this affecting
government? The only way you will see concessions being made is if there is an
open revolt which includes massive strikes. Otherwise I don’t see how this
movement, as much as I love it, can force concessions by next summer. The
beauty of what happened in Egypt is that it was MASSIVE, it included such huge
numbers from across the board that it couldn’t be ignored. We have to wait for
this movement to build the same momentum but I doubt it will happen by next
summer. Things have to get worst before the rest of the 99% are on board.
By redteddy, October 30, 2011 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment
@Gerard who wrote: “Amazes me how some big shot can go down to Occupy
Wall Street and make assinine comments about how “there is a sense of
security, and that undercuts the concept of the real protests…
...It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a place or
places to put these kids up for a while indoors. Some university or college?
This is exactly his point. In the places he is referring to no one would even
Report thisexpect that a city, no matter how rich would give OWS a place to stay indoors.
The whole point of government and the financial sector is to end the protests,
make them uncomfortable, make it difficult for the movement to grow and
continue. The fact that you even think its feasible for the city to award the
movement with something like housing in winter undercuts the statement of
how secure we still feel in our society; that we can actually believe government
will do that when they allow homelessness and foreclosure on a regular basis.
By heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 7:38 pm Link to this comment
IMax….maybe if you actually read your link instead of just bullshitting you
would have seen what it ACTUALLY said;
here’s the story
——‘Occupy Wall Street’ Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows ... - ABC News
abcnews.go.com/.../occupy-wall-street-protests-turn-violent-video-sh…——
ABC News’ Olivia Katrandjian reports:
Video posted by the group Occupy Wall St from the eighth day of protests
against corporations show police using Tasers and mace to control the crowd,
which the group says has only made it more committed to keep up the
demonstrations in lower Manhattan for the long haul.
A New York Police Department spokeswoman today confirmed the group’s
claim that approximately 80 people were arrested Saturday, mainly for
disorderly conduct and obstructing vehicular and pedestrian traffic.
“One person was arrested for assaulting a police officer,” she said.
She added that no arrests have been made today.
The spokeswoman could not confirm whether police officers are using mace,
Tasers or netting against protesters.
One woman wave of violence, IMax????????
are you silly or dishonest?
Report thisyour other link is to a NYPD sgt threatening to sue any one who hurts a cop, not
a tale that police are being attacked.
By OzarkMichael, October 30, 2011 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment
-IMax
Imax, you dont understand that the Tea Party is dangerous because they are evil. OWS is safe because they are good. Dont let the complicated facts get in the way.
OWS is just the 200 at Zuccotti Park, which initially was white college grads without jobs, several of whom have some interesting communist and anarchist type ideologies.
They were of course hoping for widespread support across the nation and even the world.
They got what they wanted. As a result, whenever we tally the strength of OWS we have the 99% Everyone Occupy Everywhere, including all the misbehaving and law breaking folks. We include the protests all over the world. This is big! This is the power of the Left at last!
True, part of the tally that gets OWS to 99% is David Duke and other Nazis, anti-semites, criminals, predators, propagandists, mobsters, malcontents, and a cadre of violent Leftist radicals. There are crimes and confrontations, and there will be more soon. Truthdig wont let us link to such reports. Thats a good thing because such reports are bad for you to know about. I see you slipped one in. SHAME!
Wwhen we want to assess the morality of Occupy Wall Street, we dont count those people. Nor do we count the anarchists in Rome who broke things and torched cars. We only count the 200. Well, not all of them. Only the nice ones. But we dont even count them all the time, we only attribute their behaviour to OWS if they are lookin’ rightious and peaceful. If they get caught lying or threatening someone we temporarily exclude them from OWS today even though we counted them as OWS yesterday and we will again count them as OWS tomorrow.
Its not hard to understand, Imax. You just need faith in the cause, a la Eric Hoffer’s True Believer.
You have to accept the contradictions. You should overlook it because you are so angry at Wall Street. You have to accept that there is no standard to judge OWS by. However, everything standard and judgement you make against the Tea Party still stands. Dont forget that.
Arent you mad at Wall Street? Do you want to change the system? If so, stop thinking of yourself as an individual who has to distinguish between right and wrong. Drink your kool-aid like a good Leftist. Everyone else here does!
Report thisBy IMax, October 30, 2011 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment
heterochromatic,
Your last post floored me.
This is what you find on any search engine in less than two minutes. It’s not possible to claim OWS in New York is different. Simply not possible. You have GOT TO BE looking away from real human events to make such a claim. There are literally hundreds of examples of violence and destruction associated with OWS NY in the past month.
I support none of this. This is wrong.
Occupy Wall Street Violence | Officers Injured | NY Post | Mediaite
http://www.mediaite.com/.../ny-city-police-official-we-will-sue-any-occupy...
2 days ago – The recent violent confrontations between law enforcement officials and protesters in Oakland, Times Square, and elsewhere have captured ...
Violence Breaks Out During ‘Occupy Wall Street’ - CBS New York
newyork.cbslocal.com/.../violence-breaks-out-during-occupy-wall-str…
Oct 14, 2011 – Among the most notable incidents on Friday happened when one man lost his balance, and was run over by a police scooter.
Violent Crime Up in New York City as Police Distracted by Occupy ...
townhall.com/...
violent_crime_up_in_new_york_city_as_police_dist..
6 days ago – As the Occupy Wall Street drug parties protests continue in New York city, violent crime is running rampant as police resources are being ...
‘Occupy Wall Street’ Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows ... - ABC News
abcnews.go.com/.../occupy-wall-street-protests-turn-violent-video-sh…
Sep 25, 2011 – A New York Police Department spokeswoman today confirmed the group’s ... ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows Police ...
Occupy Wall Street: Violence erupts as police clash with protesters ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/.../Occupy-Wall-Street-Violence-erupts-p...
Violence Breaks Out During ‘Occupy Wall Street’ March Toward New ...www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2792673/posts
Oct 14, 2011 – http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/14/violence-breaks-out-during-occupy-wall-street-march-on-wall-street/ · 3 posted on 10/14/2011 6:58:48 ...
Violence Follows Occupy Wall Street March - NY1.com
http://www.ny1.com/content/.../violence-follows-occupy-wall-street-march
Oct 6, 2011 – Violence Follows Occupy Wall Street March | NY1 News is Time Warner Cable’s 24-hour newschannel in New York City, delivering breaking ...
Report thisBy heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment
Imax, from a comfortable distance, keep an eye on OWS in NYC. they’ve not been
violent or misguided, although they’ve been quite naive in welcoming NYs real
street people.
They may stick around a while and find a way forward. It’s rather early days for
Report thisthem and perhaps a little unfair to expect them to act better than they have. All in
all, they’ve done OK
By IMax, October 30, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment
heterochromatic,
And out the door I am. There is now nothing I want to be associated with in these protests.
What’s happening across the country is wrong. This is not the way.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, October 30, 2011 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment
IMax, I think that OWS (which exists only in NYC) can not be said to be responsible
for the actions of imitations. as well, OWS will not long mourn your withdrawal of
support.
don’t worry too much. they won’t be trampling you as you make your way out the
Report thisdoor.
By IMax, October 30, 2011 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment
This has got to stop. It’s not possible to support these protests any longer. Not like this. These things are happening nearly everywhere.
Report thisHome » News » Crime
Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally
By PAT GROSSMITH
New Hampshire Union Leader
Published Oct 28, 2011 at 10:15 am (Updated Oct 28, 2011)
By IMax, October 30, 2011 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment
Today I am thoroughly embarrassed to have given my support to these petulant and ignorant children.
These protests have gone completely wrong. The ‘Occupods’, as these protests are being called, will accomplish nothing but strengthen the right/far right vote.
This is one example of hundreds from every city Occupy has ‘occupied’. We now have no right to suggest the Tea Movement was dangerous.
This must stop.
Coast Guard in Boston confirmed that a woman in uniform was harassed and spat upon near Occupy Boston protesters.
The woman was walking to the train and protesters spit on her twice, called her foul names and even threw a water bottle at her.
Now, the Coast Guard is warning all staff working on Atlantic Avenue to avoid those protesters while in uniform.
http://www.uscg.org/Forum/aft/11729.aspx
Report thisBy bob zimway, October 30, 2011 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment
Grab doesn’t work for me. Not that seize is any better. Anyway, this is a siege. By
Report thisnext summer concessions should have already been made, not grabbed, from the
towers.
By gerard, October 30, 2011 at 9:37 am Link to this comment
Having made such an outlandish suggestion as that we (99%) should “take care of our own” to avoid them having to suffer cold and wet for no good reason when indoor space is available ... yeah!
I’ll go on a bit farther.
This movement has a good chance of beginning to push for needed changes for the benefit of approx.99% of us—that is, you and me. So far we haven’t done much ourselves but wait for someone (them) to open the gate for us. So they’ve opened the gate.
Where are we? The educated former middle class beginning to feel the pinch—not to mention, of course—the huge percent of the 99% of us who are really hurting. Where are we? Writing blogs? Some of us are so old we can’t do much more. But we are a small % of the big %, many of us having spent a lot of time doing more than blogging! Getting old happens.
My plea is, find a place to give these (mostly) young people a chance to do a job they won’t ever be paid for that might make a difference we can’t make without them. Such spaces are available in a city with the facilities and wealth of New York. They can go back out when the weather clears—or not depending on their decision. It just stands to reason that this gathering is as good as any other “convention” isn’t it? The money could be raised. Our support without co-optation? Yeah, why not? We’re the “Vietnam/Civil Rights” people, aren’t we?
Report thisWhat would George Washington do? (“With winter almost set in, and the prospects for campaigning greatly diminishing, General George Washington sought quarters for his men.”(good ole Wiki!) What would Thomas Jefferson do? Tom Paine? Abe Lincoln? Henry Thoreau? Seriously.
This is the country that spends trillions on violence, right? Not one cent for beginning to figure out the specifics for other ways to solve our problems? Where’s the imaginatioin? Where’s the faith? Where’s the joy? Don’t you see this
movement in its histsorical context? This is an opportunity and an obligation.
By Anarcissie, October 30, 2011 at 8:06 am Link to this comment
I’ll say it again: If you think power should be ‘grabbed’, go ahead and do it. Don’t expect OWS or someone else to do it for you. They’ve done their job, which was to open up a certain space, a certain opportunity, in a formerly closed system. Now it’s your turn. What are you doing, other than typing stuff in a computer about what other people should do?
Ever since the Occupations started there has been an avalanche of blather: ‘What OWS must do now!’ ‘What OWS should have done—my brilliant idea.’ ‘The future of OWS according to me.’ Why don’t you people go do something yourselves, if you’re so smart? This is not entirely a rhetorical question.
Report thisBy ardee, October 30, 2011 at 4:02 am Link to this comment
In my two plus years at this forum I had previously considered the posts of Anarcissie to be well worth the read and the associated thought provoking quality therein.
I do not know who has usurped this posters place at the forum but I trust that the real poster will return shortly and we can once again be treated to posts with an actual substance to them.
Report thisBy RayLan, October 30, 2011 at 2:16 am Link to this comment
@Anarcissie
“he point of OWS is to break up the power, not grab it.”
Power isn’t broken without being grabbed. If you think so give some ‘obvious’ examples - like facts - as opposed to junk opinions.
Report thisBy Robespierre115, October 30, 2011 at 12:09 am Link to this comment
“Oliver Stone’s advice is, of course, junk. The point of OWS is to break up the power, not grab it.”
And how do you “break up the power” without organizing to overthrow the current system? You expect Obama and the powerful to just get annoyed or wake up one morning and say “gee, those kids out there are right!” Wake up and dump the postmodernism.
Report thisBy Anarcissie, October 29, 2011 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment
I think it is necessary to be outdoors and in the agora. If I were Bloomie and wanted to get rid of OWS I would kindly give them a nice big warm loft somewhere.
Oliver Stone’s advice is, of course, junk. The point of OWS is to break up the power, not grab it. If he wants to grab the power, then let him go out and grab it, if he thinks he knows how, and spare OWS his advice (to do his work for him).
Report thisBy heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment
gerard——Me? It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a
place or places to put these kids up for a while indoors.——-
WTF are you talking about????? there out there only because they want to be.
it’s not like they have no place to go…..or don’t have half a million donated bucks
Report this....they’re looking to rent winter quarters….are already renting storage space for
their extra possessions.
By gerard, October 29, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment
Amazes me how some big shot can go down to Occupy Wall Street and make assinine comments about how “there is a sense of security, and that undercuts the concept of the real protests.”
Like, why don’t you, Oliver Stone, take a tent and a sleeping bag and go down in the wet and cold and snow and see what your “sense of security” does for you?
Me? It just makes me sick that a city as rich as New York can’t find a place or places to put these kids up for a while indoors. Some university or college?
Report thisSome “think tank” (what are they THINKING?)? Some YWCA/YMCA/Muslim Center/Jewish Center. Some real estate offices that know of some empty buildings in good shape, or empty rooms. Or even some families that could start a race to be “host families”? If it’s the length of time, discuss that, work it out together, get with what is happening and what a great opportunity it is for New York, not to mention the confused and hopelessly unequal USA.
By heterochromatic, October 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment
IMax
who, beside yourself, says that he was trampled??????????
Report thiswhy do you think that the police trampled him ?
By IMax, October 29, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment
“Occupy Oakland Defies Mayor, Pitches Camp”
Scott Olsen’s injuries are looking more like he may have been trampled. If correct this changes the narrative considerably.
I believe these types of actions, by OWS protesters, will be the cause of dwindling support for Occupy protests.
What are Americans seeing? Americans are hearing and seeing rats, vandalism, rapes and fights attached to OWS crowds. They’re seeing refusals to move or bend for others. Others who have every right to open their bakery in the morning across the street - without a propane canister through the door - or refusals to keep protesters within bounds, as millions of protesters have before them. This all-out defiance, wide-spread destruction, will not help in raising real ‘OWS’ issues and the national dialog.
We should take a lesson from the Tea Movement. 500,000 people turned out across the country in a single day without incident of violence or destruction. The Tea movement then left their protests and went home to be even more active in state and national politics. This movement went on to effect the entire 2010 elections from coast to coast. It is still effecting the legislative agenda today.
I can no longer support OWS. The tactics and direction is not only wrong, I believe it will prove completely ineffective. I believe it will, in very real terms, strengthen the ‘Tea’ vote in 2012.
Report thisBy berneredfeather, October 29, 2011 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
1% speaks to 99%, “I hear you knocking but you can’t come in.” Time and money
Report thisare on their side so they can wait for ever. The 1% are really not the problem the
real problem is those who are unemployed, who are underpaid, who have no
healthcare, who have no pension, who can’t send their kids to college and and
those who have mental health issues. The basic human right of humans to use the
the resources of the planet is lost to those own those human rights. Through the
fraud of economics and democracy are prevented from acquiring the natural
resources they need for survival. What is the percentage of population in this
category? 40%-50%? The 1% can just plug their ears, stifle the media and wait for
40% to give up hope again and go home.
By redteddy, October 29, 2011 at 10:44 am Link to this comment
@Nick_Lento
Here, Here! I couldn’t agree with you more.
Report thisBy redteddy, October 29, 2011 at 10:42 am Link to this comment
@litlpeep
Don’t knock Stone for his spotlight. I don’t hear anyone knocking Moore or
Report thisSarandon for theirs when they engage themselves politically or show up to OWS. I
don’t begrudge these people their success or money or even their influence, they
have a right to their opinions like everything else. Your post only allows nay
sayers ammunition when they accuse OWS of suffering from sour grapes. Let’s
remember who the real villains are, Stone isn’t one of them.
By litlpeep, October 29, 2011 at 6:55 am Link to this comment
Oliver Stone is certainly worth hearing out - to a point.
One can see that point in the vast chasm between his preaching and his practicing.
He loves to tell others what to do.
But for himself, he reserves the right to cultivate his addiction to spotlights. Devotion to the addiction has led him to create some compelling movies. The Platoon story carried itself, but El Salvador was brilliant; again the story carried itself. His Wall Street stuff is more glaring spotlights than substantive revelation about the poverty of prevailing US economic and political theories.
Rather like Obama, GWB, Bill Clinton, GHWG, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, Ike…. and all the wannabe saviors to grace the US industrial screens and noise boxes. Except these latter don’t even have a good movie to their claims. Only the by-products of their increasingly and astonishingly vulgar self-promotions.
Report thisBy ardee, October 29, 2011 at 4:46 am Link to this comment
While Stone notes the levels of violence against demonstrators living under South American dictators and compares that unfavorably to our own violence against OWS so far this movement has just begun.
While no one seriously expects the butchery of a dictatorship towards protest here I think Stone might soft pedal both the current violence by the police and the potential for escalating future violence. Unlike South American nations we have a constitutional guarantee of assembly and of free speech. Someone tell the various mayors, city councils and police chiefs please.
Report thisBy heterochromatic, October 28, 2011 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment
Stone is a wonderful filmmaker and I can’t wait for his upcoming 8 hr first part of
his Khomeini biopic.
” Ruhollah: Let Them Go !”
Report thisBy rumblingspire, October 28, 2011 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
like my sis is always saying, “there is no such thing as a civil war”.
Report thisBy Stephen Boni, October 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Stone just sounds tired here. In fact, he sounds like a mainstream Democrat who
lost his passion years ago. His comments reflect a lack of imagination about what
OWS is and what it can become. Legislation is one tiny little piece of a broad
mosaic of possibilities for bringing active citizenship back into play as a check on
the power of wealth and privilege.
Respectfully, I find his comments largely irrelevant and out of touch. Listen to
some Richard Wolff and regard someone with a much better grasp of our current
realities:
http://fora.tv/2010/03/03/Richard_Wolff_Capitalism_Hits_the_Fan
Report thisBy bob zimway, October 28, 2011 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
When Stone makes the factual World Trade Center movie I will pay to see it.
Report thisBy traynorjf, October 28, 2011 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment
@Nick_Lento
There is a difference; the Democrats give you a shot of procaine before they screw
Report thisyou. That’s why Obama is getting his money from the fat cats and damn little from
the rest of us. Wake up. The Republicans are not the problem. They are the enemy,
and we know what we can expect from them. Our problem is the mainstream
Democratic Party, fat cats all, who continually betray us; the progressives are a
minority in the Party. Support them, not Obama and his buddies in Congress.
By traynorjf, October 28, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment
@Nick_Lento
There is a difference; the Democrats give you a shot of procaine before they screw
Report thisyou. That’s why Obama is getting his money from the fat cats and damn little from
the rest of us. Wake up. The Republicans are not the problem. They are the enemy,
and we know what we can expect from them. Our problem is the mainstream
Democratic Party, fat cats all, who continually betray us; the progressives are a
minority in the Party.
By traynorjf, October 28, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment
The South and Central American experience is illustrative of the problem we are
facing. Repression in Latin America succeeded because Washington supported the
oppression ( and killing) of the reformers. The overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala
during the Eisenhower administration is a prime example. After the overthrow the
CIA wanted to kill Arbenz (and probably his family), but the new ruling party
vetoed it and allowed the family to go into exile. Recently the current Guatemala
government extended an apology to the Arbenz family.
It is important for us to understand the malevolence of our government and what
Report thiswe are up against in seeking meaningful reform. Stone is aware of this.
By Mike, October 28, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Stone sold out a while ago. He talks a good game but his films now are watered down to the point where you wonder if he has a point.
Report thisBy Nick_Lento, October 28, 2011 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment
Kasia says, >>>”...Get these people out of office. Democrat, Republican – it
makes no difference.”<<<
Do you REALLY believe there is NO difference between the parties? None?
Do you REALLY believe that all Ds and Rs are the same?
Sounds like you are putting out memes that the Koch brothers would totally
Report thisapprove of, eh???
By Robespierre115, October 28, 2011 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment
Stone is a worthy heir to the legacy of directors like Costa-Gavras and Gillo Pontecorvo. Americans would do well to check out “South Of The Border,” our neighbors down south have already experience the great economic crisis and are taking the power back.
Report thisBy gerard, October 28, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment
They don’t “get” it. Too bad.
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