Nappy:

We are not arguing about the existence of God.  I have NO idea if there is or is not God.  Nor do I really care, because I have no way to determine the answer—yes there ARE things beyond the reach of our understanding. Those are the things for which we cannot collect evidence.

But to assume an activist and interventionist God who responds to prayer and enacts “miracles” is fundamentally illogical.  Everywhere scientists turn the see the integration of forces in the universe.  Grand complexity built upon lesser complexity built upon simplicity, such as there are only 4 forces, and only 3 particles that make up the matter we know.

A “miracle” would be a breaking of that series of perfect patterns, an admission that God screwed up in the creation of the Universe.

One of God’s days is a thousand years? How about 2 billion, because THAT is actually in the ballpark for our existence?

I’m willing to accept that the Big Bang could well have been God’s moment to create the universe, but I find it contradictory to all evidence that He or She did ANYTHING since then.  Why would God have to unless He screwed up something?

And Time: why is it we can understand 3000 years or even 5,000 years but cannot CONCEIVE of a billion years?  Anyone with a telescope and high school geometry can show the universe is far, far older than the bible’s 6,000 years.  Hell, the common ancestor of chimps and humans lived about 6.5 million years ago—1000x longer than the 6,000 years—and that’s just our nearest relative.

If God created our Universe then he created it to be ongoing and independent of him.

Now Inherits The Wind, this keeps getting better.

Thanks Inherit the Wind, YOU DID IT!  May God Bless You!!!
***********************

Nappy, next you’ll toss out the apocryphal pocket watch in the cornfield example…(Guess who first came up with THAT one!)

Maybe you should take some time and read two vital books on the development of the universe by two famous astronomers.  The first is a novel by the late Fred Hoyle: The Black Cloud.  It’s a great read and the chapter on close reasoning is astonishing, as is the description of a knee joint.

Then there’s “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark” by the late, great Carl Sagan.  It’s by far Sagan’s best book—a call for logic and rationality without ever questioning God’s existence.

You know, one of the reasons I find your arguments silly and unoriginal is that I could EASILY make your case better than you could—I’ve heard it for the last 35 years with few changes.

But I could make a FAR better case that God exists than you can by throwing OUT your absurdly simplistic “Intelligent Design” concept (an oxymoron if there ever was one) by a defense of evolution.

So here’s an obvious question: What makes you think God did NOT invent Evolution as His method for creating the species? (Hint: Quoting the Bible’s ancient superstitions will get you nowhere with me).

‘Cause saying “Because the Bible tells us God created the world is 6 days” means nothing to me. Nothing.  Religious doctrine isn’t science.  Never has been, never will be.  Religion as an explanation for creation is ANTI-science.

gods bless you…....and everyone ITW, does this mean Nappy has seen the light, though I have seen a snake in an apple tree, this must mean something special must have happened, right up with walking in the moonlight playing the bag pipes.

Long Been Gone, the little known Chinese Philosophizer who specialized in Insect heart beats always wondered if cock roaches had a soul and went to cock roach heaven. Be assured if cock roaches were capable of unthinking like most humans, they would see them selves in gods image too!

One could safely speculate and believe cock roaches would be much more likely to have some place to go like heaven then most Republicans!

napolean, I appreciate your sincerity in trying to respond to others’ comments.

“Men lead, women are naturally less strong physically for the most part, right?  Emotionally sometimes as well, right?  Men lead, not a power trip thing or making the woman less than, men lead, lead the way for women to travel safely and without hindrance, both figuratively and spiritually.”

Having observed large numbers of people for decades now, I have seen very few leaders, unless you like to count demagogues as leaders rather than demagogues. Men seem to essentially be bullies and cowards, bullying those they think they can with impunity, cringing before those with the power to bully them. Men seem, if anything, to be more emotionally immature than women, which is saying a lot. But while men are fancying themselves leaders, I guess, women have to get on with the business of life and take care of everyone.

Unlike many people, I think the scriptures have their uses. They show us that humanity has been brutal and stupid for as long as we have had civilization (many scholars think the story of the Garden was intended as a metaphor for the rise of civilization). They show us what humanity does to the prophets among us. And Jesus spoke many truths (I’m far more interested in Jesus than Paul, unlike most Christians), including:

Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

I am fascinated by Christians’ consistent ignoring of this clear message. Everything Jesus says to the Pharisees holds quite well for today’s righteous Christians. I think it is terrific for us all to be discussing our perspectives—and there are some excellent comments here, and Leefeller is here to make us laugh—but for anyone to think they possess some special insight into God is unpleasant.

I have recently realized, after watching the silent movie The Passion of Joan of Arc, that when people say “God,” they mean themselves. “God thinks” means what they think. That’s about as clear a definition of blasphemy as anyone could possibly want.

Well, Nappy,

You can believe in fairy tales all you want.  The science of Biology including Evolution will move on without you..It already has.

You can say “it’s just a theory”, but you are sitting at a computer that could not possible run without the thinking behind the “just a theory” Quantum Theory. Because without the Quantum Theory there are no transistors.

“Just a theory”

Did you know there’s an orchid that has a pattern just like a particular kind of bee? It even emits a scent that smells like the female’s pheromone. The male tries to mate with the flower (talk about metaphoric imagery) and picks up lots of pollen. It then goes to the NEXT orchid and does the same, pollinating it.

There are a zillion symbiotic relationships out there in the natural world.  To you, they “prove” that your invisible friend exists.  To me, they re-affirm that Darwin was right.

Dear Anne: Well, Duh!

Belief can be right or wrong, true or untrue, fact or fiction or just about anything one wants it to be! But, belief in the mind of a believer is absolute, so anything else is wrong!

Yes, see the light, it is becoming a brighter light, now it’s two lights,..... a skunks last testament.  Hope it was a religious skunk so he went to skunk heaven!

I guess those of us who DON’T buy into your “invisible friend” idea MUST be stupid.

Maybe you should read what you post.  Nothing like people of “faith” advocating extreme sexism and anti-gay sentiments.

In the past it was racism and intolerance of other religions (I guess this last is still prevalent today.)

Amazing how many people think I’m stupid.  Why? Because I don’t buy into their bullshit and their warped, twisted ways of looking at the world.

If “stupid” is a synonym for refusing to be deluded by bullshit, I plead guilty.

****************

“”“In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man
created he, him.

And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might
be Lord over all the earth when it was suited to Man.

And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean
heavily on his God and saw that it was good.

And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a
host of others likened unto his kind.

And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some
were burned; and some were put apart from their kind.

And Man became the God that he had created and with his
miracles did rule over all the earth.

But as these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause
Man to create his God lived on within all Men; even within
Aqualung.

An Man saw it not.

But for Christ’s sake he’d better start looking.”

J.T.

*****************************

My God

Oh people, what have you done; locked Him in his golden
cage.
Made him bend to your religion; Him resurrected from the
grave.
He is the god of nothing, if that’s all that you can see.
You are the god of everything; He’s inside you and me.
So lean upon him gently and don’t call on Him to save, you
from your social graces and the sins you used to waive.
The bloody Church of England in chains of history, requests
your earthly presence at the vicarage for tea.
And the graven image you know who with his plastic crucifix,
he’s got him fixed, confuses me as to who and where and why
as to how he gets his kicks.
Confessing to the endless sin, the endless whining sounds.
You’ll be praying till next Thursday to all the gods that you can
count.
J. T.

As Gandhi said, “I am a Hindu. I’m also a Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim.”

All belief systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I love Christ, but I have a lot of problems with the organized church.

Take whatever value you can find in any religion, but be ready to reject the bad parts.

In other words, think critically!

God is spirit and those who worship Him should worship in spirit and in truth.  Many scriptural truths are found in the bible, as with other “books”.  But these are still the compilation of man, left in the hands of men to interpret and pass down, and therefore very limited in the understanding of the spiritual realm.  Follow your heart, your inner self, and seek the truth. Ask and seek and you will find it.  The God of creation is as close as your very breath.

The primary focus of all religions is a spiritual union or relationship with our creator(s).  I too have a problem with much of organized religion.  As soon as you attempt to define God, you limit Him.  We want to put Him in a box and make Him conform to our image of Him.  It just doesn’t work that way. 

Look to all the various factions of Christianity and other monotheistic religions in our culture today.  They all limit my God in ways that He cannot be contained.  He moves beyond our defined parameters every single time.

He has not changed, even if His plan for mankind has undergone phases and adjustments from one generation to the next.  Just as all of creation points to His existence, all science will prove it eventually.

So look past humanity to see the true nature of God.  God is love.  Look to the fruit of any “church”  to see if goodness truly follows them.  The proof is always in the pudding.  If they are strictly condemning and critical and have no compassion or love, then reject them as false.  Read Matthew chapters 5, 6, and 7 for a glimpse at the true nature of God.

Guess what I say is this:  Men lead, women are naturally less strong physically for the most part, right?
*********************

This is so stupid as to be beyond belief.  By that theory, Hulk Hogan or Dwayne Johnson should be President—after all, I’ll bet either of them can easily beat up any of the last 18 Presidents. The 19th Teddy Roosevelt was a ferocious boxers.  He actually went blind in one eye from a boxing accident in the White House.

Football offensive linemen are some of the strongest men on the planet.  But do THEY run the team? No.

The argument that men lead because they are stronger merely means that most men are PHYSICALLY capable of beating the shit out of their wives.

Thankfully, the vast majority are EMOTIONALLY incapable of physically hurting the women they profess to love.  Sadly, those that ARE capable are still far too prevalent—and think that men are the “boss” because they can beat the shit out of their wife.

Time to come out of the stone ages.

As the media inundates and saturates me mind with innateness, it sounds as I must know who the hell Anne Rice really is, a missing important figure in me life and in the grand scheme of things.  I had never heard of Anne Rice before nor did I care, (still don’t) so I must fulfill my simple existence and find out who this Anne Rice is!

So she is an author seemingly seeking publicity, like Joe the Plumber and Sahara Palin!

What caught me eye was the catchy title of someone quiting the whole thing while on the other hand the alleged significance of keeping it her way like a Fast Food Burger!

Celibacies like religious figures, talk shit and annoy me, except Jessie Ventura!

So?

I was surprised when she went BACK to Catholicism, not Christianity in general.  In her Vampire books, she has her main sort-of messianic hero, Lestat, go back to witness Christ’s coming to earth, life and crucifixion from the the POV that it’s God himself and that it’s a cheat, because he KNOWS what will happen when he dies and that as a “human” never really has to face the fear of the unknown that we all do.

I think what she’s found is that a corporation, a bureaucracy, an institution that has spent 1,600 years seeking power and wealth is INCAPABLE of truly being a moral light to the world.  Not ever being Catholic or Christian, or religious of ANY kind (Groucho Marxism/John Lennonism isn’t REALLY a religion) I have no ability for empathy.  Sympathy, yes, empathy, no.

Napoleon, as is often the case with preaching, whatever the religion being preached is, you make a lot of statements but leave to speculation how that applies in action. 

I presume that you are saying that you know the way but that those who have a different view do not.  You are entitled to that opinion, it’s one that has given religion a bad name and has spawned much violence.  You seem to be inferring that most Christians are on the wrong road because their road is different from the one you are on.  I presume that you think that the same is true in spades of other religions. 

Just as is true with the Quran, the bible speaks with a forked tongue.  On the one hand, treat you wife well, but on the other make sure she knows that she is inferior to you.  As your reference to 1 Peter 3:7 says, you are superior to your wife.

Too often, rather than directly attacking other views; they say my view is the right one and leave to inference what other views are.  That often suits the choir just fine, but is a somewhat devious way to address the general public.

Napoleon:

May want to find a better translation—the belly distending and becoming putrid isn’t just getting sick.

I’m not a biblical expert, either Tanakh or the NT.

My other brother Clyde is like a rabid distiller of his own Gospels of what he believes to be the true great books on Harry Potter. 

It seems,.... in Clyde’s mind,.... Harry Potter was or still is a real person, because he was told so by a real thinking person of ill repute, so when Clyde went to see the revelations of Harry Potter, he was moved by a light and asked to leave the theater, which had something to do with the voice behind the light and Clyde’s proclivity of singing Irish ditties while drinking beer!

In my case, I believed in Santa Clause until three years ago when all of a sudden I lost my job as a Tattoo critic for a prison newspaper,  then I lost my house and car, this forced me to live under a bridge, of course everyone remembers the 2009 glut on shopping carts. Some people equate my situation to socialism, because we are a group of more than two and some of us asked the government to provide more bridges for the homeless.  We even had the gall to request of the government for more shopping carts! These where considered most decadent requests and a waste of tax payers money, because the necessary need of supporting more important things like different wars, and of course paying for medical insurance for all of handicapped people in Congress. 

You know! It would be nice in my case if Fox instead of supporting Teabaggers and Palin, Fox instead supported shopping cart rallies for the homeless, though this could be problematical because of the socialism stigma attached to it. ...... I will never understand why Fox supports Palin when she is sort like a a socialism stigma for the word imbecile!

napolean: “Look how far women have come in regards to their rights thanks to the new covenant found in the new testament:”

The “new covenant” vs. the old one.  In other words, God saw the error of His ways and changed his Mind.

However:

Women during the Middle Ages:

“The women of the Middle Ages were totally dominated by the male members of their family. The women were expected to instantly obey not only their father, but also their brothers and any other male members of the family. Any unruly girls were beaten into submission and disobedience was seen as a crime against religion.”

“Medieval Torture was a freely accepted form of punishment in the Middle Ages and was only abolished in England in 1640.”

The New Testament:

“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

napolean, August 13 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind… you are right about the commandments and such, but where is that one about the dirt?  I seem to have missed it… please specify as to where I can find that one.
***********************

Numbers—5:13 to 5:31

It may say bitter water depending on the translation.

“Today I quit being a Christian” Ann Rice said.
And I say I’d rather eat goat cheese than the other kind. It’s all high-impact news. Discuss.

hello. the struggle of religion within oneself is interpretive, and i am happy for her she engages herself. it is not light nor dark, good nor evil, (within me), but a spiritual faith foundation of life. chaotic meaningless fiction interacts in my environment to influence what i emote. who i am is neither the conflicts of my ego and id, nor the cumulative effects interjected by environmental fictions. i am the spiritual essense of my conception, and my faith is in its origins, and my religion is the definition of this belief. i only read that she wants her money back.

Napoleon:
Religious Jews believe there are 613 Commandments and the 10C are merely the FIRST 10.

So..if you think your wife cheated on you, you feed her a special dirt that kills her.  If her corpse rots, and the belly expands, she was cheating. If it doesn’t, she wasn’t.

Gonna enforce THAT one?????

****************

By Leefeller, August 13 at 11:34 am
““Believe as one likes, just keep it to yourself seems prudent
advice.”“
****************

Absolutely. Religion or faith or beliefs are personal and very
rarely should be pushed on others. To do otherwise, creates a
commercialized venture of hyperbole which can and will lead to
deleterious affects through arrogance and ignorance.

Believe as one likes, just keep it to yourself seems prudent advice.  My religion of choice happens to be unorganized, so we do not get the tax free status the temples of fables do, but we are working on it. Every weekend we sacrifice a bottle of Tequila and the way the economy is sucking wind, this has becomes an expensive form of tithing, so tax free could help?

The Great Unyun as our deity actually joins us in partaking of the sacrificial Tequila, not many religions can equate to this nor do we care! On special occasion the Great Unyun has placed a lampshade on her head and danced on a table, these are fond spiritual memories, only if I could remember them?

Since the Great Union is unorganized this means we do not partake in organized pedophilia, hypocrisy and stoning.  Great Unyun as a loose unorganized flock attempts to show blatant stupidity sponsored by most organized religions is not necessary, But most importantly, there is to be absolutely no evangelizing!

Many political churches choose Conservatism and orthodoxy over Jesus, and become Conservatism’s orthodoxical preachers that are not following Christ at all, but following Conservatism’s seductive god of mammon orthodoxically, and encourage members to vote REPUBLICAN, which is Conservatism.  There are no REPUBLICAN Liberals, as all liberals are kicked out of the REPUBLICAN PARTY along with all Conservatives that are deemed NOT Conservative enough.

God Bless Ann Rice for accepting Jesus.

****************

I am amazed that Anne Rice, who is capable of such minute
historical research, even joined christianity much less will ‘stick
with christ’, who never existed in as a human in the first place.
Her books of vampires and mummies are from research deep
into the Egyptian culture, and druid also, but she would rather
skip the far reaching influence the ancient Egyptian’s had, along
with buddha and krishna, to the now current religions du jour.
But perhaps her sticking with christ is a wink and nod to the
worship of the sun, one of the oldest and earliest forms of
worship unless it was the night sky and nature.

Aww, she forgot to mention the christian genocide of one hundred million Amerindians.  I guess that’s too large a number for her to comprehend. We are still here Ann Rice!

Jesus never converted to Christianity. Jesus the Christ was not a Christian. His name and title were hijacked by opportunistic pathocrats to subvert his teachings into a malignant narcissistic force of propaganda, fear, control, and hate; cloaked in love, peace and subsequently the American way.

All religions fall into this trap. Devotion to Christ, Buddha or any other enlightened teacher(according to one’s view) has nothing to do with the religions that spawned from darkened human imaginations.

Anne Rice has at least had the courage to think about her Belief Systems and has chosen not to continue to follow the unthinking masses into blind obedience and religious oblivion.

napolean, what do you make of the scriptures that say it’s better to turn your daughters over to strangers to be raped than allow homosexual acts? Is this what you would do?

I assume you follow all scriptural instructions, including never wearing fabric that is of mixed fibers.

Is this like quitting Alcohol and sticking with wine?

“Author and vampire enthusiast Anne Rice”

The most insane description I have ever seen being attributed to anybody. God help us!