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Artists and Activists Protest Tel Aviv Program at Toronto Film Fest

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Posted on Sep 4, 2009
Fonda and Byrne
Collage: celeb9.com/hearsay.cc

Jane Fonda and David Byrne, pictured, are two out of a group of more than 60 who have signed a letter of protest about the Toronto International Film Festival’s new City to City program because its inaugural edition centers on Tel Aviv while excluding Palestinian voices.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has a way of popping up in any number of seemingly unrelated arenas across the world, such as the upcoming Toronto International Film Festival, where a planned Tel Aviv-themed program has spurred several entertainers, including Jane Fonda, Danny Glover and David Byrne, as well as writers and filmmakers, to sign a letter of protest that’s shaking things up with just days to go before the fest begins.  All of the 10 films in City to City, a new program at the festival, will focus on the Israeli city. —KA

Toronto Star:

More than 60 people – including prominent members of the Jewish community such as author/activist Naomi Klein, Judy Rebick and Israel filmmaker Udi Aloni – have signed a letter protesting the Israeli financial capital’s inclusion in the festival’s inaugural City to City program.

As reported in the Star last week, Toronto filmmaker John Greyson initiated the protest by withdrawing his documentary Covered from the festival.

The tentative plan is to hold a press conference with a final list of signators, said filmmaker Richard Fung, one of the organizers.

The list also includes prominent names such as actors Jane Fonda and Danny Glover, British filmmaker Ken Loach, musician David Byrne as well as artists from Canada, the United States, Europe and Africa.

A core group of largely Toronto-based Jewish filmmakers is accusing the festival of playing into “the Israeli propaganda machine” with the City to City program, which excludes Palestinian voices from the 10-film program.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, September 17, 2009 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, September 17 at 9:39 pm #

Waaaa, Waaaa, what a cry baby asshole.

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By ardee, September 17, 2009 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

Lets see, within recent memory, since your not worth serious investiation.

As you are not worth polite rejoinders, you are such an asshole.

Your claim to another poster who questioned your status as a “boiler room” poster to get up and go to work between 2:30 to 1:30, ostensibly to drive a fork lift?  You sure make alot of posts during those hours.  deceit

You are full of shit, as usual. I have posted my schedule enough times and have to say you are again distorting and lying to attempt to rescue your image here, far,far too late for that jew hater.

PS. I drive a truck asshole, and each stop I make has an office with a computer,I work for a company of 20,000, which I can avail myself of as I choose…You are indeed a moron.

On one Israel connected thread you claim 114billion and really its 134 billion (same website) you chastise Obama for something he has little control over and don’t mention any of the “soft” contribution like military surplus.  Obfuscate

I already noted the link to that figure, if you have an argument it is with the source of that number, but you are far too gone to understand such elementary fact….Are you really this dumb? I think you may indeed be so…

On another thread you criticise others over the official 9/11 theory citing a magazine which has nothing to do with engineering.  Lie

What the fuck is wrong with your head, too much booze or drugs today? I cited a reference to Architectural Journal in fact, a relevant citing considering the subject was the design of the Towers…imbecile.

I quoted a famous Zappa quote, You stated that “You” couldn’t verify it.  You went on to post some dubious zappa quote unverifiable that he told you personally.  unsubstantiated

Imbecile, there is nothing here to speak to, you are a childish fart in a windstorm. quotations page.com/quotes among several other such sites..for those not you who have an actual functioning brain Oh and I posted several quotes by Frank Zappa…

Your classic use of the term “anti-semite” is a zionist term.  I ask you a simple question,  Do you recognize Israel as the jewish homeland? yes or no.

No jerkoff, anti Semite is a term used to denote one like you who hates jews…period.

Already being recognized as a deceptive obfuscating liar, I can hardly believe anything you post except your immaturity.

You are the single biggest loser I have ever encountered in all my years on political forii. Not one single shred of proof to back up your claim that I am a Zionist, not a single cut and paste only a series of increasingly sad distortions and childish lies…You are a gasbag, and nothing more important than that.

I will continue to point out your bigotry and stupidity at every turn but will respond directly to you no more. I am sorry that you didnt have a set of parents who cared enough about you to raise you right.

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By PatrickHenry, September 17, 2009 at 3:48 am Link to this comment

Lets see, within recent memory, since your not worth serious investiation.

Your claim to another poster who questioned your status as a “boiler room” poster to get up and go to work between 2:30 to 1:30, ostensibly to drive a fork lift?  You sure make alot of posts during those hours.  deceit

On one Israel connected thread you claim 114billion and really its 134 billion (same website) you chastise Obama for something he has little control over and don’t mention any of the “soft” contribution like military surplus.  Obfuscate

On another thread you criticise others over the official 9/11 theory citing a magazine which has nothing to do with engineering.  Lie

I quoted a famous Zappa quote, You stated that “You” couldn’t verify it.  You went on to post some dubious zappa quote unverifiable that he told you personally.  unsubstantiated

Your classic use of the term “anti-semite” is a zionist term.  I ask you a simple question,  Do you recognize Israel as the jewish homeland? yes or no.

Already being recognized as a deceptive obfuscating liar, I can hardly believe anything you post except your immaturity.

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By ardee, September 17, 2009 at 2:51 am Link to this comment

Yet another evasion, and each one more childish than the preceding….You apparently got nothing, churlish little troll.

Are you ever going to back up yoru claim of my Zionist leanings? No , just babble on and on and on and on…

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By PatrickHenry, September 16, 2009 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, September 16 at 6:12 pm #

Another shining example of your intellect (or lack thereof).

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By ardee, September 16, 2009 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 15 at 6:41 am

Yet another evasion, and each one more childish than the preceding….You apparently got nothing, churlish little troll. My “attitude” mirrors that of a nation, so whom have I invaded , or taxed, or levied a tariff against, Troll boy?

You are an idiot of the first water and still have not noted anything at all to back your absurd conclusion that I am a Zionist. I have a large number of posts here, some on the subject of Israel and Palestine. Each one in sympathy with the plight of the Palestinian people and condemning the actions of Israel as well.

Surely it would be a simple matter to cut and paste something from those posts to support your wildly accusatory stupidity…..nope, cant do it, all you do instead is dig your hole a bit deeper with each post….you , on the other hand , are a proven anti-Semite, and by your own links too…as well as an increasingly seeming immature little acne scarred teenager, testosterone outpacing your intellect by leaps and bounds.

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By PatrickHenry, September 15, 2009 at 3:41 am Link to this comment

By ardee, September 15 at 10:19 am #

Your attitude is exactly that of Israel you little turd.

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By ardee, September 15, 2009 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 14 at 6:32 am #

ardee, one moment your calling me an antisemite and then your denying your a zionist.  Why do you use their tactics?  The proof is in your posts.

I have seldom met a more whiney, little attack troll such as yourself and if you are the example of a typical jewish American poster with your childlike slurs, then pity that race.

Your late for work driving your forklift or so you say.

Twist in the wind you supercilious little troll. Once more I state that you are a liar and a clown, and again ask for one single cut and paste of one of my posts proving your stupid, childish and hateful little lies about my position on Israel.

This last effort is an evasion and nothing more, and you are a jackass.

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By PatrickHenry, September 14, 2009 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

ardee, one moment your calling me an antisemite and then your denying your a zionist.  Why do you use their tactics?  The proof is in your posts.

I have seldom met a more whiney, little attack troll such as yourself and if you are the example of a typical jewish American poster with your childlike slurs, then pity that race.

Your late for work driving your forklift or so you say.

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By ardee, September 14, 2009 at 3:16 am Link to this comment

Sheesh, FT Politics make strange bedfellows indeed. PatrickHenry is an antiSemite and a slime trail leaving Banana Slug and you defend such…...

Show me where the State of Israel claims to speak for me…..

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By ardee, September 14, 2009 at 3:14 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 13 at 7:20 pm #

When next you crawl out from under your rock please bring proof of your claim of my so-called Zionism and my support for the govt of Israel…Or shut TFU!

You prattle that I am one thing yet , when challenged to prove that lie you engage in hyperbolic bullshit, which, by the by, is all you have anyway.

Put up or shut up!

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By Folktruther, September 13, 2009 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

Ardee, the power structure of Isrel clains to be speaking for all Jews.  Including you.  Have you opposed the opporession of the Isrelis againt the Palestinians?  Silence is not opposition.

It is true that Patrick Henry mixes up anti-smeitism and aniti-zionism, which is common and will take a historical period to untangle.  But he is getting better.

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By PatrickHenry, September 13, 2009 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, September 13 at 7:43 pm #

Ardee, you just another cry baby, that when either Israel or those 70% of jews who support it are criticised you go into one of your temper tantrums calling another posters antisemites, anti-hebrew (thats a first for me) and other typically childish slurs.  You remind me of another childish poster here n(ITW)it. 

Thats all you got, how feeble.

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By ardee, September 13, 2009 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 13 at 12:50 pm #

I challenge you to find one single post of mine supporting the actions of the Israeli govt towards the people of Palestine…One single post. I have asked this of you several times already but you are a childish little hit and run clown.

You are a contemptible lying sack! Which dovetails nicely, I think, with your antiSemitism. Who, I wonder, do you think to fool here?

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By PatrickHenry, September 13, 2009 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

By ardee, September 13 at 12:50 am #

Just in case you were wondering, I think you contemptable in the extreme.

Why thank you ardee, comming from a mighty forklift driving zionist and protector of Israel I will take that as a compliment.

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By Folktruther, September 13, 2009 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

Racism, including anti-semitism, anti-Muslism, and anti-Arabism, is an historical part of the US, which has been and is a highly racist country.  The most poisonous racism is now implicit and unconscious. 

this was illustrated yesterday by unprecidented defaulting of a player at the semi-finals of the US open.  This is the second time that Serena Williams, an African-American player, was teated outrageously at the US open by racist officials in a highly racist sport.

she was defalted for complaining about a call to the lines person, a routine act that occurs in every tennis match.  The offical felt ‘threatened,’ there being onely five or ten other (White) officials on the court midst ten thousand onlookers.  Serena’s real offense was the same as Gates when he was arrested in his own home for creating a public disturbance.

The were both being uppity.  This threatens White people who side with authority to put them down.  The media, which is White, of couse sides with Patriotic Americans.  The Zionist New York Times began its article:


  “Serena Williams has been disqualified in a shocking display of (her) vitriol and profanity ... ‘

The defense of Israeli ethnic cleansing by Zionism has increased American racism which regards Israeli racism as its brother.  I;srael is now doing to the Palestinians what was done to Jews historically. putting the million and a half people of Gaza in a ghetto-concentration camp, sending in military progroms, desstroying its economy, and implementing a starvation blocade.  Supported by the US power system, including most of the learned and mass media.

And of course Sepharad and the Zionist lemmings.  Sepharad strongly supports Sharon who devised the strategy of starving the Palestinians in Gaza.

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By ardee, September 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 12 at 10:41 am #

Just in case you were wondering, I think you contemptable in the extreme.

Why not go back and reread your posted reference to ,”Jew Jersey. It really speaks volumes about you you might understand…

Oh and be a good little bigot and clean up your slime trail, thanks ever so much.

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By Sepharad, September 12, 2009 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

ardee, you’re right: the real work IS done on the ground by average people. But zionist Likud extremists—who are in control of Israeli policy now even though the Israeli majority did NOT vote for them—need to know how and why the rest of the world views them. So my family and friends in Israel, Jew and Arab alike, do everything they can on the ground. But guys like Netanyahu, Lieberman (and their opposite numbers among the Palestinians) as well as the nationalist/religious settlers need to know that there are other perspectives in the world besides their’s, and that while they consider people like me and Israelis like me to be naive, irrelevant or traitors because 1)we do not believe that Eretz Israel can only survive if it extends to King Solomon’s borders, and 2)do believe that Israel cannot exist at all without better lives for the Palestinians descended from the ‘48 refugees. We are in truth Israel’s best hope for survival. They think everyone who is not like them hates them because they are Jews. I hate them because they, as individuals and as a group, are not acting in he best traditions of our culture but are rapidly becomeng less like Jews and more like religious bullies in brown shirts and they—especially those descended or themselves expelled from Arab countries—DO hate Arabs. That’s completely unacceptable as a basis for policy. (Sharon did NOT hate Arabs; he fought alongside them in several wars, and saw that his own sons served under Arab officers in IDF. But he did whatever he thought necessary to defend Israel, including serious mistakes, like not reactivating IDF forces in Lebanon which enabled the Falangist Christians to massacre Shahila, as well as unilaterally pulling Jews out of Gaza rather than first negotiating the pullout with Fatah which would have given them enough standing to perhaps not made the Gazans so vulnerable to Hamas.)

Maybe you’re right, maybe posting on the extremist zionist blogs is like posting to closed minds anywhere, including those among TD commenters. But there are enough zionist blogs that are very similar to TD, and other sites I generally agree with and post less frequently—they are in the negotiating/peace camps already, and still others where people of varied opinions, some on the fence, some fearful, but most in favor of a two-state solution but still a handful of Greater Israel types. And that last category of people could be affected by input from thoughtful Americans who believe that what Israel has come to stand for is wrong.


Honest Reporting, based in London, basically monitors information disseminated re Israel and when there are errors, approach media in which these stories or pictures or broadcasts appeared and make an argument. If the medium agrees, based on more information or proof of doctored material or whatever, they publish retractions—but of course the retractions (as is the case in most media on any subject) never have the impact that the initial impression made, but it’s the best that can be done). Readers of HR comment on various issues and stories and there is sometimes disagreement among them over truth v. fact, individual issues etc. Mostly these are thoughtful and not radical in any way. (I think they are about back to normal now—a few weeks ago some rightwingers hacked into the site and screwed up much of the information and it took awhile to clean it up and set up firewalls that should have been there in the first place.)

I do som writing for HR sometimes but not paid. Folktruther says I am a professional journalist, which is true, but nearly all my work was investigative reporting in this country on American issues, though I’ve also studied international comparative systems.

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By PatrickHenry, September 12, 2009 at 7:41 am Link to this comment

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3773246,00.html

brought to you by:

http://www.thejidf.org/search/label/About

Snappy little set of JIDF “wings” ardee, do you wear them on your jammys.

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By PatrickHenry, September 12, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

I wonder if truthdig will allow me to post this now?

It has been a blacklisted site here for sometime an it has relevence.

http://www.b d s m o v e m e n t.net/

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By Folktruther, September 12, 2009 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

Ardee, I don’t live in Israel; I live in the US.  In the US their is an enormously funded zionist propaganda machine that includes much of the US mass media, and the leaders of both political parties.  It includes Horrorwitz who is funded by Zionists to get students to report their teachers for anti-semitism if they criticize Israel’s ethnic cleansing. 

It includes Dershiwitz and those influenced by him to legalize torture and ban Finklestein’s book, as well as getting him fired.  And Israel prevented him from entering the country, just as it imprisoned the UN (Jewish) rep Faulk, a professon at Princeton.

Aipac, etc,routinely censors anti-zionist events, including a lecture by the Jewish historian Judt and a play about Rachel Corrie, murdered by a two man Israeli military bulldozer.  Israel funds, through Zionist billionaires, an enormous public relations organ consisting of paid and unpaid volenteers who obscure and defend Israeli murder, torture and ethnic cleansing.

Zepharad is part of that propaganda machine, having worked with a journalist group that attacked anyone objecting to Israeli oppression.  She identifies with Sharon, the Butcher of Beirut, while giving lipservice to liberal values, and routinely attacks anyone opposing Zinist oppression or the justification for it.  She is a highly intelligent journalist who has no historical, political or moral sensibility, and it is precisely people like her who have got Israel to this historical point. While explaining how much she loves her horsies. 

Isreal, because of apoligists like Seoharad who lead the Zionist lemmings, is a disaster for the Jewish people.  And it is by no means over.  Israel has hundreds of thermonuclear bonbs, largely created by information from zionist spies on the American power structure.  Seymour Hirsh has discribed in his book THE SAMPSON OPTION the danger this is to the world of megalomaniac ziofascists.  Among the ziofascists there is a strong feeling for usung them, as there is in the US.  Since Israel can only conduct its racist ethnic cleansing by war as a diversion, it is not unlikely that over historical time, they will be used.

You, like the majority of the Jewish community, are emotionally conflicted by Israel.  So you can’t think clearly about the historical possibilities.  Under Obama, Israel is now conducting a starvation blockade against Gaza, which Sharon has turned into a ghetto-concentration camp, and is continuing building colonies in Palestine.  While Obama spouts Inpiring rhetoric and Sepharad tells us how much she loves her horsies.  And Israel prepares to attack Iran, since an Iran bomb would tend to neutralize the nuclear arsenal alrready ammassed by Israel.

An incrasing number of Jews are opposing Israeli barbarism and the Zionist propaganda machine that conceals, disguises and justifies it.  There is no middle ground; you are for ethnic cleansing or you are against it.  Sepharad and the zionst lemmings are for it, however much they try to obscure it.  I and the other anti-zionists are against it.  You have a choice.  Choose.

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By ardee, September 12, 2009 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

Sepharad, September 12 at 2:10 am #

Just a thought: Why don’t you guys(PH, Foke, ardee)  make some of the criticisms of Israeli policies you make on Truthdig where they might have some impact—on some of the more extreme zionist blogs?

I do not post on radical websites for rather obvious reasons. Imagine trying to dialogue with a score or more like PatrickHenry for example. It is not the extremist or the hater I seek to reach out to, instead it is the average American, the folks who work their jobs, raise their kids and are, by and large apolitical.

These sites serve only to reinforce or solidify ones belief system, sharpen ones tools for the fray. The real work is done out there in the world, and on a daily basis.

As to that pile of excrement who calls itself,Virginia777, September 7 at 3:34 pm #

When is the last time you posted a political statement of any sort? I wish your mommy would restrict your internet privileges and force you to concentrate on your high school studies.

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By Sepharad, September 11, 2009 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

Just a thought: Why don’t you guys(PH, Foke, ardee)  make some of the criticisms of Israeli policies you make on Truthdig where they might have some impact—on some of the more extreme zionist blogs? You could start on “the z word” and find many sites. (Of course when I do I consider it to be in the best interests of Israel, the Palestinians and indirectly the U.S. and you might have other motives. But whatever your motives, you might raise questions causing people to rethink their premises in order to respond.)

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By PatrickHenry, September 11, 2009 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

FT, you had better chastise me or turn in your jewish button.

I can see now the peer pressure ethnic and religious jews face with each other.

Obviously anti-semetic.

http://uruknet.info/?p=m57531&hd;=&size=1&l=e


I wonder when Truthdig will open a report concerning the Israeli “body parts” market reported by the Swedish newspaper and proven true.  Sure won’t hear about it in the MSM.

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By ardee, September 11, 2009 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, September 11 at 3:23 pm

There really is, as Sepharad notes, a spirited dialogue within Israel about the treatment of the Palestinians. I have not been there in years and years but I do remember cafes and coffee shops buzzing with political talk and opposition to the governments policies. Sort of like what one finds in parts of the USA in fact, and with about as much success.

Saying that she works for a propaganda machine seems over the top, really. I can disagree with her support for Israel without charging her with propaganda, only with a mistaken loyalty.

Where I wonder, is your contempt for the link to an obviously anti-Semitic site with a headline reading Jew Jersey? Would this bit of garbage not qualify for the Folktruther ‘working for the enemy’ award?

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By Sepharad, September 11, 2009 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, boycotts of intellectual media/free speech issues are something I always oppose. In Israel there are more Palestinian-perspective films than even you would like to see. What matters is that the Arab/Palestinian perspective is hugely covered in their film festivals whic, I might add, almost never include an Israeli perspective while in Jewish Film Festivals there are many depictions of Arab/Palestinians suffering and feelings. Shutting down information and interaction is never a good idea. Never. And I do think Mr. Clarke made a fair point.

I don’t work for Aipac or Israel. I try to bring some information and balance to the debate—because I care about Israel. That is why I also try to influence people there through Peace Now and Meretz—especially on forums polluted by single-track extremists such as yourself and, in Israel, your opposite yet identical numbers.

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By Folktruther, September 11, 2009 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

the Toronto boycott apparently was highly successful, contributing to the world boycott, etc of Israel.  There is a piece on it today in CommonDrams by Naomi Klein.  A very useful defeat for Aipac and the Israeli-US propaganda machine that Sepharad works for.

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By Sepharad, September 10, 2009 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

John Clarke, good question. Guess he figured “all the world is the stage”, wanted a larger platform and he got it.

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By John Clarke, September 10, 2009 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I wonder if John Greyson’s big public hissy fit about TIFF has anything to do with him being on the Advisory Board of the Toronto Palestinian Film Festival and always pushing for a world-wide boycott of anything even remotely related to Israel? 

Knowing what TIFF’s plans were, one wonders why he waited to the last moment to withdraw, rather than just in the beginning many months ago withdrawing?

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By Sepharad, September 9, 2009 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry, don’t even try to imagine it. Another circle of hell. Just keep your two children close. I’ve spent so much time wondering how I failed to somehow prevent the needless death of my extremely independent adult child (to no purpose or conclusion of course, except finally understanding my own parents’ anxieties that, at the time, I ungratefully chafed at). And thank you.

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By PatrickHenry, September 9, 2009 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, September 9 at 7:22 pm #

My sincere sympathy for you.  I am a single father of 2 and I can’t possibly imagine…...

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By Sepharad, September 9, 2009 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

ardee, thanks. (Really thanks, not just pro-forma.)
Still feel like something’s broken inside that can’t be fixed, not to mention my mental disconnet. But yesterday decided to “lurk” a couple times a week and maybe comment where it’s not too complicated. Not reading newspapers yet so not very well-informed. Learned a lot about my daughter that neither we—her family—nor her close friends nor her colleagues knew. Knew of course she volunteered one day a week, besides working fulltime and taking nightclasses, but had no idea she just sort of helped people en passant who looked troubled. 50+ such people like that showed up at our small memorial and they mostly said they’d seen her death notice in the paper and just wanted to let her family and friends know how she’d helped them put lives back together. Made me wonder when (or if) she ever slept, but also increased sense of loss, and made me wonder how people who are in warzones and who lose their children remain sane.

She was also a little disorganized like me. Last October left her notebook of poetry she’d written and was writing on the Muni. Remember saying to her “Please tell me you have a back-up copy.”  She said, “Well no, but I can keep writing, right? Anyway, somebody might find it or pass it around, so I’ll have a few readers but no nasty critics.” Favorite poets were Neruda and Auden.

And I suggested in my post that other posters were off-topic!

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By ardee, September 9, 2009 at 2:53 am Link to this comment

Sepharad, September 9 at 8:51 am

Welcome back, and know that you have much support and sympathy for your terrible loss.

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By Sepharad, September 9, 2009 at 1:51 am Link to this comment

Maybe Toronto/Tel Aviv is different, but our SF film festivals include the Arab Film Festival and the Jewish Film Festival (which this year had a lot of films sympathetic to the Palestinian perspective). If you can balance what you’re showing—it’s always been like that here, a real no-brainer—the venue shouldn’t matter. Couldn’t they just make it Toronto/Tel Aviv/Hebron or something?

I won’t be posting much for a while to come—too sad and not really compus mentis—but was surprised at 1)the non-issue story and 2)the lack of posts addressing the topic of the article.

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By Russian Paul, September 8, 2009 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

I know the difference, but you are splitting hairs. In this conversation we’re
obviously talking about the politics of Zionism which will be supported by
whoever has power.

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By Gwalgen, September 8, 2009 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Ontario Arts Council and Toronto Arts Council need to be pulling any funding that TIFF gets from them and use it to increase funding to the Toronto Palestinian Film Festival.

We need to boycott the films from all israeli and jewish filmmakers and producers to express that the public opposes the zionist apartheid expansionist imperialist israeli regime.

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By PatrickHenry, September 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

By Russian Paul, September 8 at 6:00 pm #

Obviously you didn’t read the definition of zionism and are purposefully being obtuse (then again maybe you can’t help it).

Zionism and the politics of zionism are two different things.

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By Russian Paul, September 8, 2009 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

creation and support of Israel.

Yes, the support of Israel has been a multi-ethnic, bipartisan item on the agenda
for quite some time and there are other reasons for this support that have nothing
to do with a Jewish homeland. Israel is now our strategic partner in that region.
Are you purposely being dense?

The elite can go by any ethnicity they want for show, they all share the same
ideology. They want to remain in power.

Take Obama. What has he done that a white president wouldn’t do?

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By PatrickHenry, September 8, 2009 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, September 8 at 12:09 pm #

Yes, I know what you mean about Inherit, I haven’t heard from him in awhile, hope he didn’t get caught up in that organ-sting mess in New Jersy.

http://mantiqaltayr.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/jew-jersey/

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By PatrickHenry, September 8, 2009 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

By Russian Paul, September 8 at 7:30 pm #

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

I’m afraid I must disagree, words mean different definitions to different people. 

My interpretation equates zionism with the creation and support of Israel.

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By Russian Paul, September 8, 2009 at 12:30 pm Link to this comment

Other powerful ethnic groups are not going to ascribe to “Israel” hence
“Zionism” either.

But of course they would. Zionism isn’t just about having a homeland for the Jews,
it’s about maintaining American hegemony in that region. It serves the interests
of the powerful to keep a strategic, nuclear-armed presence over there whither
those in power here are Jews, Christians, secular, etc.

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By Folktruther, September 8, 2009 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

You know, Patrick, you may have a valid point. The tendency is for ethnic groups to go into the same occupations, just as Jews go into financial or truth occupations or, say, the overseas Chinese go into business, possibly dominating Indonesia or the Phillipines.  Or Irish going into the police or priesthood in NY, or Jews becoming school teachers, or east Indians owning motels.

Should the larger community integrate these occuaptions so they are not dominated by one ethnic grouping?  It is possible to argue ‘yes’ on the basis of ethnic integration without being racist or bigoted. So you have a valid point, Patrick, arguing on the basis of ethnicity rather than ideology. I don’t know what the solutions would be.

And of course you are quite right about the Jewish religion being racist, as they all are.  Gibbon quotes Miamondes saying that if a non-Jew were drowning in a river, it would not be incmubant on a Jew rescuing him.  and this religous bigotry is incorporated in ziofascism and zionist lemmings.  Look at Inherit, anyone who disagrees with him or tries to raise his taxes is anti-semetic.

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By ardee, September 8, 2009 at 3:33 am Link to this comment

Virginia777, September 7 at 5:38 pm #

Shall I fill the other readers in here?

Ardee gave a preposterous account here of his “blue-collar” job which, yes, included driving a fork lift.

When I dared question accuracy of this (given the frequency of his posts), Folktruther (and Nefesh) flew to Ardee’s defense, saying I was an “Elitist liberal”,

You are NO liberal , only an asshole with nothing whatsoever to contribute. Your entire political commentary revolves around insulting working class folks.

I arise at 2:30 AM for a job that begins at 5:00AM, I finish around 1:30 PM and thus have plenty of time to post. Not that any of that is relevant , only serving to point out your utter stupidity, contempt for the working class, and sheer uselessness in these threads. Congratulations you moron.

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By PatrickHenry, September 8, 2009 at 3:12 am Link to this comment

By Russian Paul, September 8 at 1:57 am #

If you replaced the powerful Jews with another ethnic group, they would still identify with money and power,and they will identify with Zionism.

Now I think you are confused RP, “If” isn’t a component of history and history has demonstrated what happens when monopolies are allowed to go unchecked, Initially it is bad for the non-jews and then the jews suffer, once the people grow tired of subterfuge.

Other powerful ethnic groups are not going to ascribe to “Israel” hence “Zionism” either.

By Folktruther, September 8 at 5:07 am # 

By what I’ve read, Jews are some of the most racist individuals out there.  One only has to read the Talmud to determine that.  I have asked those I’ve met here at truthdig what race do they identify with and I’m told white, not semitic. 

I’m told that I’m an antisemite here at truthdig by alot by jewish posters, I guess its just their way of calling me a nigger since I don’t subscribe to and comment on the status quo in the media I watch and hear daily, the terrible way our banks are run and how our politicians lack the backbone to stand up to a very small minority at the expense of the majority.  When it is pointed out that the responsible parties are either ethnic or religious jews, I am branded an anti-semite by those jews.  Even ones I respect such as yourself.

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By Folktruther, September 7, 2009 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

thank you very much for the witty defense, Russian Paul.  I clearly did not take Virginia seriously enough, largely because she is politically conventiional, naive and unformed.  She obviously can’t distinguish an anti-Aipac stance form pro-Aipac, or the difference isn’t important to her.  What is important to her is not what a person says or does, but what a person is.  Although Ardee, Nefish and I have radically different political positions, we ae all Jews, so we are politically, because ethnically or racially, the same.

I had a girl friend like that many years ago who was tauaght anti-semitism as a child and believed absurd notions until she realized how she was indoctrinated.  There is a good leftist site, Information Clearinghouse, where the commenters don’t distinguish between anti-semitism and anti-Zionism, despite occasional but continuous comments to do so.  Pat Buchanan, raised as a fascist, is a racist and anti-foreigner, and opposes Israel from the position of anti-semitism.

America is a highly racist country so this kind of thing is common and to be expected.  Nowadays the right don’t call Obama a nigger, they call him a socialist, but that is what they mean.  But these codewords are successful most with the politically undeveloped, who do not take ideas seriously.  As people become more conscious, the racism will, and is, disappearing historically.  But it is obviously still a serious factor in the US, among the Dems as well as the Gops.

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By Rubiconski, September 7, 2009 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree Patrick Henry….Fair hiring practices are non-existent in Hollywood. This
cannot be tolerated and MUST be boycotted! It is BLATANT DISCRIMINATION!!

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By Maverick79, September 7, 2009 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Murdoch’s Jewish Roots


http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=37543


http://100777.com/node/1577

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By Russian Paul, September 7, 2009 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Pat, ethnicity is one thing, ideology is another. If you replaced the powerful
Jews with another ethnic group, they would still identify with money and power,
and they will identify with Zionism. And whoever is in charge of the Banks and
the Media will continue to obfuscate the general public because naturally that
is in their best interest. The ethnic backround of the elite is far less important
than what you are putting emphasis on. Power is power.

And Virginia, whither you’ve ingested too many drugs or not enough, I’m not
sure, but your accusation of Folkturther setting up an AIPAC “training ground”
is beyond hyperbole, beyond chutzpah, beyond…just beyond. He is one of the
most entertaning and concise anti-zionists on here. Somewhere he wrote that
separating anti-zionism and anti-semitism is a “difficult emotional, historical
task.” Your posts seem to be a comedic example of this.
I rarely post, but I do read most comments around here. You used to have
some interesting things to say, but recently you seem to have developed an
unhealthy obsession with Ardee, forklifts, etc. The fact that you dug up a
reasonably worded comment FT made from a year ago says more about you
than him. Relax, not all forklifts are out to get you.

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther comment from last July, defending Ardee:

“And what’s wrong with driving a forklift, as Nefesh, the bloodthirsty Zionist, points out.  I fear this is the bourgeois Elitism speaking”

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

to Patrick Henry:

its bad enough that Ardee is a bully-troll, but I can’t stand how Folktruther is using Truthdig as his training ground.

Surely AIPAC can find its own training “camps”,

leave Truthdig alone!!

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By PatrickHenry, September 7, 2009 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, September 7 at 4:41 pm #

Mixed up about what? I am not talking about Israel.  Please do not assume to know what I mean.  I agree with your viewpoints regarding Israel quite a bit, however your endorsements are not always agreed to by me and apparently, by others.

I’m talking about monopolies which jewish Americans are running here and now.  Media is one, the Fed is another, most of the brokerage houses on wall street are also run by jews.  These powerful segments of society can make or break all large corporations by way of stock manipulation and false reporting in the media. 

Banks and Media hold sway over politics as many politicians know perception with the voters can change with the next headline or stock report.

I don’t “hate” them for it, but I am concerned and wary of the situation.  If ever this country is to stand up to Israel or attempt to break up these monopolies, all Americans may suffer by their intentional crashing of the system and creation of a false panic.

By Virginia777, September 7 at 4:18 pm #

Yes I know ardee is a little troll, I’ve been posting here for years and am well aquainted with the troll troop.  At certain point alot of posters see themselves as moderators and not just another poster.

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

asap

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Shall I fill the other readers in here?

Ardee gave a preposterous account here of his “blue-collar” job which, yes, included driving a fork lift.

When I dared question accuracy of this (given the frequency of his posts), Folktruther (and Nefesh) flew to Ardee’s defense, saying I was an “Elitist liberal”,

attacking the Working Class.

What a load of crap these trolls are trying to pull here on Truthdig,

I say they ALL need to hop in Ardee’s forklift and back off a cliff!!

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

oh yeah, FT, I know, I know…

I remember when you and the other trolls (remember Nefesh?) first introduced Ardee and his “blue-collar” bullshit,

you backed the whole Shenanigan, as I remember.

(and I do remember, FT, you can’t escape this one)

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By Folktruther, September 7, 2009 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment

Ardee, PatrickHenry is mixed up but Ed Harges is in no way anti-semetic. 

Virgina, ardee is driving the Forklift of Righteousness, but he happens to be very sensitive about it.  You’re not helping maters.

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

to PatrickHenry:

Ardee is a little bully-troll,

and Folktruther is “training” him here on Truthdig.

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By PatrickHenry, September 7, 2009 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, September 7 at 1:21 pm #

It’s going to take alot more than a shower to wash the stench off you.

Where’s your backup ardee?  always criticising, never offering anything more than your holier than thou diatribe which changes day to day.

I guess you don’t agree with the website, I didn’t think you would.

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

Ardee, from the bottom of a pond, after his fall over the cliff:

(bubble, bubble) “I would take the time to congratulate both Russian Paul and Folktruther for attempting to interject a bit of sanity in opposition to the silliness (or worse) of those blatant haters like Patrick Henry and the more subtle or less blatant ones like Ed Harges. One cannot hope to change a mind like those but the truth matters and others should read opposing, more rational and less disturbed….”

(sorry, he got cut off, I guess the forklift sunk)

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, in a robe sitting on a tree stump “You, Ardee, are unfortunately much more politically sophisticated than the average blogger on Truthdig”

Ardee, sitting at his feet “what kind of fool would offer such as proof of anything?”

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By Virginia777, September 7, 2009 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

Ardee “I read the link you proffered, now Im going to have to take a shower to wash its stench off me”

Virginia “might I suggest, if you back your forklift off a cliff, there might be water below”

(why waste the shower?)

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By ardee, September 7, 2009 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, September 7 at 10:59 am

I read the link you proffered, now Im going to have to take a shower to wash its stench off me.

You gotta be kidding, right? What a sick website you patronize, what kind of fool would offer such as proof of anything?

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By PatrickHenry, September 7, 2009 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

Not only is Murdoch jewish he is also a zionist.

http://100777.com/node/1577

I doubt the ADL and the other jewish/zionists would allow Murdoch in their privilaged midst unless he was one of them and could pass the litnus test.

There has to be someone in media who can be pointed to and it can be said “see he’s not a jew”.

If anyone hasn’t paid attention lately, monopolies are suppose to be illegal and for good reason as they promote discrimmination.  Hiring a qualified non-jewish person over a qualified jewish one is a joke on Wall street or in Hollywood.  Similarly reporting on jewish crime quickly drops off the headlines and daily anchor desks of jewish owned newscorps, it is a discrimmination of a different nature, non reporting and bias reporting.

There are better summaries regarding judaism and why those of us criticise.

http://www.ihr.org/judaism0709.html

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By dsmith, September 7, 2009 at 5:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You’ll never hear about this protest on any television station and will not read about it in very many newspapers. Saying anything negative about Israel is like speaking against a dictator in a non-democratic nation. That’s why I say thanks to Truthdig.

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By ardee, September 7, 2009 at 5:16 am Link to this comment

Murdoch is jewish if you go by the time honored method of his mother being a jew, a prerequisite for belonging to that ethnicity by that ethnicity.

Please present proof of this “internet myth” that Joy Greene, Rupert Murdoch’s mother, was a Jew. This sort of stuff is found only on extremist websites and is seemingly a myth.Murdoch does nto call himself a Jew, does not practice that religion, has no ties to any organizations that promote the Jewish faith, just a small bit of bullshit, frankly, amidst an entire theory composed of little else.

The federal reserve and much of wall street need anti-trust actions and a dilution of jewish interests there as well.  By interests I mean the unconditional support of Israel and perpetuation of jewish business interests over non jewish ones with an “old boy” system that has been prevalent for thousands of years.

I would bet that much of the Madoff money made its way to Israeli banks, knowing how much of a zionist he and his close investors were.

Another rant tainted by that peculiar smell. The ethnic makeup of the worlds largest corporations shows plainly that white Anglo Saxon Protestants run them all. That the Jew was prohibited from owning property in many nations for centuries is responsible for the path so many took to business, the media, and the arts as well. Because some who are pretty good at their jobs happen to be Jewish is not taken to have hidden meaning, at least not by the sane.

Lastly, as the smell of this posters inferences is beginning to make me sick, Madoff chiefly stole from Jews and Jewish charities, one should really allow the truth to seep into the swamp of ones prejudices.

I would take the time to congratulate both Russian Paul and Folktruther for attempting to interject a bit of sanity in opposition to the silliness (or worse) of those blatant haters like Patrick Henry and the more subtle or less blatant ones like Ed Harges. One cannot hope to change a mind like those but the truth matters and others should read opposing, more rational and less disturbed views.

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By Folktruther, September 6, 2009 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

Perfectly true.  Zionism is an identification with Jewish power decreasing but widely held in the Jewish community.  Just as Italians once identified with Mussilino and Germans didn’t like to criticize Hitler.

The difference is, because of traditional Jewish entance into the money and truth industries, they have become much more powerful than other ethnic groups, especially since they have been used by the American ruling class to instill neocon and neoliberal values.

But it is also the case in the Western tradition that anti-Semitism has been widely instilled as part of the Christian religion, beginning with the New Testiment, as brilliantly argue by former priest James Carroll in CONSTANTINE’S SWORD.  so it is a qauestion of fighting Zionism and anti-semitism at the same time.  Which consequently has to be sharply distinguished, a difficult emotional and conceptual historical task.

But as you see, more and more Jews, as well as everybody else, are increasingly opposing the oppression of the Israelis.  As the world boycott, etc increases, supported by a minority of Israeli Jews as well, the Israeli power structure will either capitualate or crumble.  And this can be accelearated if the Palestinians were provided with anti-air and anti-tank weapons.

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By Ed Harges, September 6, 2009 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

re:By Folktruther, September 6 at 2:33 am:

Folktruther, of course the distinction between Jews and Zionists is absolutely crucial.
Nevertheless, even non-Zionist Jews are often fiercely protective of Israel, because
they subscribe to a “keep it all in the family” mentality when it comes to criticism of
Israel. You know, it’s like, “Yeah, my brother is an a**hole, but I won’t stand for
anybody outside the family saying so!” It’s this tribalistic, circle-the-wagons
mentality that makes heavy Jewish ownership of our news media problematic, given
the extremely destructive nature of US “support” for Israel. There are a lot of
influential American Jewish liberals who may despise people like Avigdor Lieberman,
but their tribalistic defensiveness helps to perpetuate and increase the power of the
Israeli right and their lobbyists in Washington. Their hypersensitivity enables AIPAC
to do its business without the awareness of the American public, yet with virtually
no attempt to hide what they do, because hardly anybody in the press or the
Congress dares talk about it. Who wants to open this potentially career-ending can
of worms?

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By PatrickHenry, September 6, 2009 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

Being a zionist is one thing, creating and perpetuating monopolies in the name of being jewish is another. 

When newspapers and media outlets come up for sale,  those sales have been kept within the jewish media clique.

Whether or not they are zionists doesn’t matter as much as their ability to stifle news and promote false consensus.

This is wrong and has created the lopsided media we have in America today.

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By Folktruther, September 5, 2009 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment

no, Patrick, Russian Paul is right, you don’t have the distinction down between anti-zionism and anti-semistism.  If someone supports the Israeli oppression of Palestinians, it doesn’t matter if that someone is Jewish or not.

It is true that Jews are being used to promote oppressive anti-Palestinian policies, but so are fundamentalist Christians on the right.  Of the anti-Zionists objecting to this Israeli propaganda, some of the celebs were Jewish, some not.  It is the ideology and policies that are important, not the ethnic background.

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By The Mad Loon, September 5, 2009 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment

For those who would like to read the actual letter

http://torontodeclaration.blogspot.com/

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By PatrickHenry, September 5, 2009 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment

By Russian Paul, September 5 at 6:46 pm #

it doesn’t matter if the people who control mass
media are Jews or not

Well, yes it does matter to alot of us, as many like to think of their media as being diverse without someones agenda mudding the truth.

No, I have no problem distingushing between anti-semite and anti-zionist. It is a fine line.  Most jews are zionist with a small minority like FT who are active and straightforward in their criticism.  The term anti-semite has been hijacked by zionist jewry as many are not semites at all.  It gives them the persecution shield to hide behind when criticised and changes the subject to something else.

I’m not pro-semite, I’m not a semite, does that make me an anti-semite?  I could care less, I just don’t want a controlling ethnicity or religion in media, banking or politics.

When pointing out those instances where zionist jews control and create much of the publics “perception” (actual or not), even FT is quick to point out the non-jews (4%) and the wealth behind media. 

I fear when a “group” obtains enough power they can falsely report an event, crash a stock market or otherwise manipulate congress to act against Americas own best interest.  For me, the zionist jews in media, banking and politics today represent that threat.

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By Russian Paul, September 5, 2009 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment

Patrick - I dislike the term “anti-semite” for how it is bandied about and flung at
those who criticize Israel, but you seem to be the real deal. Folktruther’s comment
seemed to go over your head; it doesn’t matter if the people who control mass
media are Jews or not, they support the same policies. Your inability to
distinguish bbetween antisemitism and antizionism is the same problem most
Americans stumble into. And why they are afraid to criticize Israel. You are part of
the problem, feeding into the hands of Israeli propaganda.

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By PatrickHenry, September 5, 2009 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, September 5 at 5:41 pm #

No, I mean these guys.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/six-jewish-companies-own-96-of-the-worlds-media/

Murdoch is jewish if you go by the time honored method of his mother being a jew, a prerequisite for belonging to that ethnicity by that ethnicity.

The federal reserve and much of wall street need anti-trust actions and a dilution of jewish interests there as well.  By interests I mean the unconditional support of Israel and perpetuation of jewish business interests over non jewish ones with an “old boy” system that has been prevalent for thousands of years.

I would bet that much of the Madoff money made its way to Israeli banks, knowing how much of a zionist he and his close investors were.

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By Folktruther, September 5, 2009 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment

You mean, Patrick, non-Jewish media owners like Nurdock, Hearst, and the Bass family, etc, etc.  The problem is not primarily that they are Jewish, but that they are rich.  and support israel fascism just as most Jewish billionaires do.  The media should be seized by the people and formulated democratically.  That is the fundamental need. 

Substituting one ethnic group for another that supports the same policies solves nothing.  As long as they all support the policies of the rich and powerful.  May I remind you that Karl Marx, Rosa Luxembourg, Leon Trosky, etc, etc were all Jews.  as were most of the Jewish population who are pulled in several directions.

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By PatrickHenry, September 5, 2009 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

The studio owners won’t like that.  I’m sure a new blacklist will develop, the same one Marlon Brando and Mel Gibson was on. 

I think we need more non-jewish owned or controlled TV, newspapers and film studios in this country.

After all isn’t that why anti-trust legislation was passed?  It is suppose to protect the public from, corporations, ethnicities or religions having control or having monoplies on essential services.

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By Truth-versus-Falsehood, September 5, 2009 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

Those few courageous artists who are protesting fascist Israel’s monopoly and blackmailing grip on official Western entities are indeed the salt of the earth and the conscious, in continuous decline, of decent humans.

However, the fact that those people only number in the tens or hundreds figures at best is in itself a sad reminder that the majority of the sheepish and sleeping citizens of the world support and continue to make possible the fascist Israeli practices through their silence; for only massive grassroots movements will have the effect of correcting the wrongs of Israel’ fascist policies and their enabling cohorts officials in Western countries.

If people, in mass, boycott such racist and exclusive festival in Toronto, then that might send a strong message to the racists and fascists our sad world!

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By Folktruther, September 5, 2009 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

This is a great indication that the North American people are well on their way to opposing Zionism. It is necessary to extend it to the entire War on Terrorism.

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By Jack, September 5, 2009 at 12:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

TIFF seems to want controversial films, but not badly enough to cross certain lines
- we weren’t terribly enthused when they told us they’d screen
http://www.thefall01.info in a pub - we said, “Do whatever you want. We probably
won’t show up.” In fact very few arts festivals of any kind are willing to take on
artistic renderings of the Global War Of Terror - it’s just too damned depressing:
the idea that the world has failed to resist domination by a handful of global
finance oligarchs and willingly sends its progeny into meat-grinder wars for
control of valuable natural resources -everyone’s in denial and would rather
indulge in trivial silliness, petty politics and fantastic eroticism - it’s simply the
Satyricon - everyone knows it and no one gives a damn, certainly not enough to
want to witness Iliad-like artistic renderings of the epoch… silliness, that’s the
ticket!

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