Delusions of madmen are open to interpretation, not well known is, Hitler really fancied himself as Napoleon, something like Reagan fancying himself as a good support actor?

Re: Mailer Demon

“It begs the question ” Mommy why does Fox rock in the only place it counts in
Media-RATINGS-while others grandly suck?”

I’ve also found this conundrum suspect, where do you think the warehouse is….?  What a story for the “emerging” journalist….... no?

Mailer Demon Nobody here said anything about Beck’s bowl-legged followers wobbling into the outhouse.  But when they do they can always use Mein Kampf for toilet paper.

Babies are born atheists.  Hitler was no different.  Babies become indoctrinated with their parent’s or guardian’s beliefs.  Hitler was no different.  Babies grow up.  Hitler was no different.  In his early 20s he was living in Vienna and actually had a couple of Jewish friends.  It was also at that time he developed a prejudice against Jews.  He was raised a Roman Catholic.  His father, Alois, however, was a known religious skeptic, “Closely related to his support of education was his tolerant skepticism concerning religion. He looked upon religion as a series of conventions and as a crutch for human weakness, but, like most of his neighbors, he insisted that the women of his household fulfill all religious obligations. He restricted his own participation to donning his uniform to take his proper place in festivals and processions. As he grew older Hitler’s father shifted from relative passivity in his attitude toward the power and influence of the institutional Church to a firm opposition to “clericalism,” especially when the position of the Church came into conflict with his views on education.” - Bradley F. Smith: Adolf Hitler: His Family, Childhood and Youth.  He became interested in the Pan-German “Away from Rome” movement which churned and railed against the Church.

We can only guess his Viennese Jewish friends said or did something to anger the young Austrian.  Grownup Babies are sometimes called men. 

Hitler claimed a mysterious voice was responsible for saving his life in the trenches when told to leave and a mortar shell blew up the spot where he had been stationed.  Renouncing God early in his public career, he expressed his opinion about God and religion as follows, “We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany.”  At any rate, oddly he also spoke positively about the Christian heritage of German culture, telling his belief in the “Aryan” Christ.  And he arbitrated between the Church and the anti-Christian Nazi Party fanatics.  Possibly a schizophrenic, he later said “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” and stayed a Catholic up to his death.

Once again, you are right, Leefeller, it matters not at all that Hitler considered himself first and foremost an artist, though I think he gave that up in Vienna where he couldn’t make it to first base as an artist and when he began to see that he could artfully assemble power politically.  Power of that sort is the most intoxicating emotion of all.  It isn’t known whether he committed suicide or was murdered by those who were abandoning the sinking ship.  There is no proof either way.  Whatever way it happened, it was a good thing.  The power of art transforms, and the painting seen in the article above is the kind of idealization that Plato warned humanity about, how art can deceive.

Leefeller,

This thread is about Hitler being an artist, so is this picture that’s shown one that Hitler painted with his water colors of himself?  If so, he thought of himself as mighty powerful and wise, even made the sun shine bright.  If not painted by Hitler, then whoever painted the picture of Hitler was definitely portraying him as wise, brave and mighty with power from above enough to light up the sky. But he wasn’t, which is the most significant.  In reality he wasn’t even as brave as Saddam Hussein, because he killed himself, a coward’s way out.

“It is no secret that Hitler considered himself “first and foremost an artist”. So, one can only conclude all artists are like Hitler? Stereotyping seems a primer tool used for promoting the difference between us and them.

It seems the news has a blatant tendency to do the same thing, when someone goes on a shooting rampage, we hear about it especially if it is an ex-marine or a post office worker, recently a women was killed and she was touted as a ex model,(ex because she was dead?) why should the persons job have anything to do with their demise? On the other hand, why when should it matter when someone commits a crime, if he was an egg counter at the local chicken factory or a janitor at the local house of ill repute?

Yes, Hitler considered himself fist and foremost an artist, if true, what does that mean, how about nothing?

Then, MarthaA shall address what our CONSERVATIVE Hitler lover OzarkMichael says, rather than OzarkMichael, because OzarkMichael can’t take the heat—too emotional—parroting a Liberal defense against the Right-Wing noise machine.

Legitimate disagreement is not the same as sophism which is a false argument intentionally used to deceive.  Sophism has been used by Right-Wing CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS since the time of Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and today to accuse, condemn and denounce Liberals and the Left fallaciously in the same way that Adolph Hitler did to set the Jews up for the “final solution”; this was not legitimate disagreement for Adolph Hitler, and it is not legitimate disagreement for the Right-Wing sophists today, it is still setting up the Liberals and the Left for the “final solution” and OzarkMichael knows this as well as I do.

Talking about moral principles without the STANDARD of those moral principles is much ado about nothing, as there is no OBJECTIVE definition of morals; only SUBJECTIVE definition of or related to conduct or character from the point of view of RIGHT or WRONG; or good character; right or proper behavior, which is an impossibility without a STANDARD for Right and Wrong, as Right and Wrong is binary and is used in binary FRAMING for PROPAGANDA.

MORAL is a TROPE.  A trope is the figurative use of a word, loosely a figure of speech; figurative language in general. Tropes are understood by one class one way and by another class a completely different way.

The “Ten Commandments” of Judaism and Christianity has been kicked out of U.S. government as a STANDARD by the Bush administration, and the “Ten Commandments” and Biblical law is the only known STANDARD of morality in the United States and the world.  Therefore, based on Biblical STANDARDS, a person’s moral character, without deception, will show in their life, art, military and economic principles of character that can be judged based on Biblical standards, but Biblical STANDARDS are not specified by law.  Usury used to be a STANDARD specified by law to be immoral, but it was knocked down by law during the Bush administration, therefore it is no longer an immoral STANDARD by law, but is still illegal and immoral by Biblical STANDARDS.

As George W. Bush, Hitler claimed to be a Christian, therefore my judgment would be that his morals should have adjusted to Biblical STANDARDS, but like George W. Bush, Biblical morals were not seen in his character.

Poops McGee- Neat ID name…yes it is quite off topic to link to the imbecilic stupor of Glenn Beck about his usual fecal-brained comments that at the end of the day, meaning historically speaking, will have absolutely no place in the annuals of journalism except in the collective journalists’ outhouse (toilet, for those too young to know what an outhouse is. Outhouse has a more aesthetic quality to it.  I’ve heard that is the proper place to read journalists anyway.  Same place good to read Mein Kampf).  Why anyone would even turn to Fox News anymore is kind of whacky given it is well known they are arsonists of the mind.  So maybe you like whacky?

Virginia777, a person could have a well developed understanding of military principles, and of economic principles, or artistic principles, but they may not understand moral principles.

Your statement that it is all the same thing isnt true.

I would go further and say that Hitler had ‘principles’ of what he thought was true and inportant. The principles were wrong and false, but he had them.

We are, unfortunately, not a different type of creature from Hitler. That is the terrible truth. Those who face it understand their own fallen natures and do not trust themselves overmuch.

Those who cannot face that truth run the risk of becoming like MarthaA, who feel quite free to go to all sorts of extremes because they feel they are so pure and above it all. She would, if she could, deny a share of common humanity to those who disagree with her, such as myself.

She represents a new type of tyranny, which i mock and will resist at every opportunity.

If Hitler was a deluded fascist and artist, this must mean all artists are deluded fascists. Makes sense if ones head is up their arse.

Same sort of imbecilic comments assimilating in muddled fog help in concluding to suggest all Catholics are pedophiles by connection. These same kind of arguments were used during the campaign in reference to nothing worth remembering, I just happen to remember the lack of logic or reason, during the campaign not the arguments?

MarthaA said: Right-Wing REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST George W. Bush did, and Right-Wing EXTREME fascism led by Rupert Murdoch is headed down the exact same path as Right-Wing EXTREMIST Adolph Hitler’s Nazi Fascists.

my response from now on will always be the same as what barney frank said to the woman who asked him why he was “a Nazi”:

MarthaA, “Having a conversation with you would be like having a chat with a dining room table!”

A bit off topic, but this is such an infuriating video. This is just another example of why Fox News is not an impartial player in any debate.

Must watch!!!

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2700

The history of the world would have been something different, had Adolf Hitler been admitted to Vienna Academy of Fine Arts in the year 1907.The world could have been saved with the catastrophe and lives of thousands of jews and millions of citizens of the world.Expulsion of Hitler from the Academy of Arts was one of the factors that made him megalomaniac.

I don’t feel like talking with you either

Virginia777 Not being able to make distinctions is a sure sign of ignorance.  In view of your ignorance and willingness to blur differences, I will ignore further comments from you to me. Pissing into the wind is not on my tour of life.

“attention to principles in one domain (art) does not mean great understanding, or appreciation, in another (morals).  Only fuzzy logic would confuse the two”

Are you kidding me?

I don’t separate the two AT ALL.

All principles are Moral ones.

yours is the fuzzy logic.

Because Virginia777, only you could really answer your own question, but attention to principles in one domain (art) does not mean great understanding, or appreciation, in another (morals).  Only fuzzy logic would confuse the two.

yes, but Shenomous, why would Hitler care about principles?

It is always more than good for the world to understand the antecedents of power.  It is essential.  Power is the single motivator for domination of one man over another.  It is a given that humans abhor being a slave.  It is a natural law and is found in the writings of Locke, Darwin, Nietzsche, Freud, many others and especially Maslow in his seminal book “Toward a Psychology of Being.”  While slavery is a physical phenomenon, the hatred and repulsion is psychological. 

The nature of art is commonly misunderstood by those who have never thought about the psychology of its affectations on the human mind and the effects on the physiology of the human body, how art affects the body.  It is a two prong phenomenon.

Hitler was an art collector because he understood the value of that kind of human expression that uses the extraordinary devices of principles to create fascinating, beautiful, or thought provoking images.  These principles should not be brushed aside as mere intellectual talk.  How artworks work their art is the clue to understanding anyone’s, Hitler’s or yours, desire to either make art or collect them.  The fact that he was a watercolorist is secondary to his understanding of the power of art.  The visual effects he was concerned with in his presentation of Nazism is stunning when the meeting halls are seen in photographs and film.  The colors chosen to represent the power of the Third Reich.  All using elements and principles of art.  The power of good design.  Even the name Third Reich has extraordinary meaning, “Das Dritte Reich” Third Kingdom of the Realm, very poetic, so the art is not limited to visual but literary as well.

Schwartz argues the imperative to underestand that the need for power motivated Hitler’s need to have artworks as well as his need to control the world, in the shape he envisioned.  This latter notion stems from an aesthetic and Hitler expressed that in his obsession of the purity of race, in his elevation of the Aryan race as the superior race of humans, an ideal.

I think the Conceptual Art movement has bred a lot of mini “Hitlers”

(like Jeff Koons)

Paul cites an “African American” continent; would it be
North America or Africa? The British Crown’s invasion
and occupation of Transvaal demonstrated the Crown to
not discern between “white” and “black” aborigines in
depopulating a region for cause of exploiting region’s
resources: the aborigines depopulated and menaced with
extermination in Transvaal were Boers of Dutch descent.

Birgit Schwarz, historian, was born 10 years after Hitler burned in the bunker. Had she lived in the time she speaks of, perhaps there would be more validity to her arguments. A person born in the middle of the 1950’s has no idea what World War II was like, no matter how many books are read, or film documentaries watched. Second hand historians rely on dramatising the narrative (in this case, her remarks seem peppered with assured psychological conclusions) in order to make their reports readable or worth listening to.

OzarkMichael,

OzarkMichael said:  “As human beings, we cannot fathom how another human being(with interests and tastes and experiences not completely different from ours) could do so much evil.”

MarthaA’s answer: Right-Wing REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST George W. Bush did, and Right-Wing EXTREME fascism led by Rupert Murdoch is headed down the exact same path as Right-Wing EXTREMIST Adolph Hitler’s Nazi Fascists.

Truthdig studies fascists.
Hitler was a fascist.
Therefore Hitler’s life and habits, including his relation to art, is fair game for an article.

I found the article terrifying. Like that little movie about a young Hitler who had some glimmers of appreciation, or some abilities to create art.

It would I suppose be more comforting to think of Hitler as nothing but a monster from the day he was born.  As human beings, we cannot fathom how another human being(with interests and tastes and experiences not completely different from ours) could do so much evil. It comes too close to home.

I’m obsessed with art.  That’s what artists do.
It irks me that pop psychologizing about artists has been going on for a few decades.  Artists (and anyone) should write their own history, as much as possible.

It strikes me, as a Jew, as well as an artist, that somebody is “out of topics” to come up with this subject matter, in this article. Desperate for sensationalizing.