As I said, I go by what he says and does, not what others say. What his gov’t does and says. At least 90% is the same as Bush‘s so far. He has no problem with keeping people locked up for no reason other than that they were arrested and therefor guilty until proven innocent in a kangaroo military court of law. If they get that far that is.

Guantonamo is the Potempkin village of the gulags. If it closes the only bleary eye to one of them will be shut. Then the stories will fade from the Corporate MSM. [Which will work in their favor.]

Use your own yardstick of reliability with Obama too and it will clear your vision.

Night-Gaunt,

Believe me Obama is running against an enormously strong head wind, and he is doing the best he can, that is all he really said he would do.

Don’t believe anything you hear and only 1/4 of what you see, because nearly everything is deceit.

Obama is all we have, without him we are sunk.  Let’s build him up, not put him down, after all, he is only one man and what he says they are suppose to follow, but these CONSERVATIVES Right-Wingers Obama has to deal with don’t care about what was once suppose to be. Let’s not follow all the Right-Wings scape goats.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION are in desperate need of health care and we must not give up until we have health care.  I want a single payer universal public option, but that is a big pill for the greedy insurance companies to swallow that have gotten used to telling both the doctors and the patients how medical care will be.  I want rid of them entirely, but if we don’t get rid of them entirely this time, we will just keep trying and never give up and sooner or later we will have public health care that takes care of everyone like the rest of the civilized world.

I go by what he does and compare with what he has said. “I am for single payer…” He said during the campaign and now even the option for a gov’t assist is dead. Too early? No. The Republicans can’t touch what he could have done because they were against it anyway. So that excuse is gone for him. It is all his.

Look at what he supposedly stood for then see what he has been doing and tell me it is too early. Haven’t you checked what he has been doing? 7 months in and he has been busy. But so far he has aided in maintaining, the status quo then changing the course back closer to a republic. That is no lie or exaggeration.

Night-Gaunt,

Nothing works like a light switch, Obama is involved in a process that involves both Houses of Congress and his administration, a complicated and time consuming process.  When Obama has had time to implement the process of change, that will be the time to decide whether or not he has fulfilled his campaign promises, but not now, it’s far too early.

“I agree with everything you said except the condemnation of President Obama.  I’m not ready to condemn President Obama, most of the condemnation of President Obama is being led by the Right, and since we know what the Right has done over the past 40 years, we can project what the Right will continue to do in the future.”—MarthaA

Yes the more they attack with ridiculous, and real reasons, the less they will be listened to as Obama carries on the great plan of destruction of this republic while its resources are going into the budding empire to be. Much that the republicans attack him on are the very same things Bush/Cheney had set up or built upon from previous administrations. Like rendition started under Clinton for instance but expanded under Bush/Cheney and Obama is carrying on with it. See? Don’t be blinded by the Golden Man who replaced the Toads. He is still a toad on the inside or else they wouldn’t have allowed him or Hillary to have a chance of ‘winning’ the rigged game. Kucinich was the real thing and you saw what they did to him.

In other words, propaganda. Repetition of falsehoods is a Karl Rove tactic..Hmmm….

Capitals are shouting according to internet culture, and used only by those who think their words do not carry enough weight without them. Yours, Martha, are so light as to float away or as weighty as the buzzing of a fly.

Good for you ardee, you learned a new word. How many grandchildren did you say you have? Was that 15 or 20?

in·cul·cate (n-klkt, nkl-)
tr.v. in·cul·cat·ed, in·cul·cat·ing, in·cul·cates
1. To impress (something) upon the mind of another by frequent instruction or repetition; instill: inculcating sound principles.
2. To teach (others) by frequent instruction or repetition; indoctrinate: inculcate the young with a sense of duty.
[Latin inculcre, inculct-, to force upon : in-, on; see in-2 + calcre, to trample (from calx, calc-, heel).]
incul·cation n.
in·culcator n.

ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun   1.  inculcation - teaching or impressing upon the mind by frequent instruction or repetition
ingraining, instilling
indoctrination - teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically
..........................

In other words, propaganda. Repetition of falsehoods is a Karl Rove tactic..Hmmm….

Capitals are shouting according to internet culture, and used only by those who think their words do not carry enough weight without them. Yours, Martha, are so light as to float away or as weighty as the buzzing of a fly.

Night-Gaunt,

I agree with everything you said except the condemnation of President Obama.  I’m not ready to condemn President Obama, most of the condemnation of President Obama is being led by the Right, and since we know what the Right has done over the past 40 years, we can project what the Right will continue to do in the future.

President Obama is the leader of the Outer-Party of The Party and could be as effective at dismantling Right-Wing plans for the United States as Gorbachev was for the Soviet Union, if he chooses to do so; we will have to wait and see, running President Obama down is NOT the solution.

As for my caps, I use caps as a form of inculcation and the use falls under the guidelines outlined by Charles Edward Merriam in “The Making of Citizens, A Comparative Study of Methods of Civic Training” and B. F. Skinner’s, “Science and Human Behavior”.

The problem in our country today is nothing more than SOCIOPATHIC ORGANIZED RIGHT-WING POLITICAL CONSERVATIVE SOPHIST PROPAGANDA led by Dick Armey and his Freedom Works organization with the help of Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck and the RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN PARTY political leadership that spawn them and the church is being used as a tool just like the Russian Czar’s did.

Except it won’t be anything close to a “Hitler-type empire” it will be fully American and more like a corporate board. I gather you haven’t read Namoi Wolf’s “End of America” where she shows that the dictators learn from each other and there is a formula that many of them use to varying degrees to seize power. Usually in increments. The NSDAP even after taking over didn’t make dramatic changes, they did a bit here, a law there and changed the country in 6 years. The military coup in Thialand took seven days following the well established methods to do so.

Ours is taking much longer. but it is a much larger country. The core group definitely has psychopaths/sociopaths in them and those who are accidentally made psychopaths and those who want to be one. Your style is relentless repeating of key talking points in CAPITALS which is fine for you. Not my style and it will rise or fall on who will read it as we all. but the same things in robotic fashion will get tiresome no matter their merit.

They are angling for an economic collapse to come that will put the idea of our form of gov’t in the trash heap and they will come in with their highly organized and funded Christian totalitarian corporate laissez faire Capitalist order to keep the streets clean and hang the criminals and put food, such as it is, on the table. Most would be foolish not to jump at that chance. Which is the point of their planning, as I have adduced and deduced.

Don’t forget that with our two party monopoly both of them are controlled by the same radical theocratic and merchantile elements. Just that the Republicans are putting on a light show to make it harder to see their man Obama carrying on the great plan to remake this country into the past that never was as glorious future. A utopia for them and dystopia for those of us who aren’t part of it.

Night-Gaunt, ardee, et.al,

For a Right-Wing “Hitler Type Empire” to be established in the United States is will take an ORGANIZED, SOCIOPATHIC, HITLER TYPE, RIGHT-WING POLITICAL CONSERVATIVE SOPHIST PROPAGANDA MOVEMENT, to subjectively fool the greater majority of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION; and that is EXACTLY what the Texas Republican sociopath, Dick Armey and his organization, “Freedom Works” and other Right-Wing organizations of Right-Wing minions that Dick Armey works with has set up, and Dick Armey is continuing the EXTREME Right-Wing’s effort to establish a “Hitler Type Empire” in the United States under the noses of a Democratic Party and a democratic president.

Right-Wing CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS have a forty year history of accusing, condemning and denouncing Liberals and the Left, which are the tactics used by ADOLPH HITLER.  The “Final Solution” from their use of Hitler’s tactics will results as it did with Hitler’s “Final Solution”, which was the killing of all Liberals and everyone that was a part of the Left. 

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States must do all possible to put down Right-Wing Hitler type political behavior against Liberals and the Health Care Public Options, where ever it erupts, whether in Town Hall Meetings, on television, radio, newspapers, etc.  This sophist Hitleresque rhetoric toots public individualism against private corporations, knowing full well that there is no way an individual can stand up to any private corporation without government assistance in some way.  There is no way to get Liberal medical reform without government assistance as Medicare is a liberal government ran program.

WE THE PEOPLE must not allow the Right-Wing’s Hitleresque minions led by sociopath Dick Armey to take over the government of the United States to avoid medical insurance reform that will keep all Americans from being able to receive medical care like Canada and the European nations, just so private corporations CEO’s can make more profit by not allowing health care to be administered.

For facts, there is 40 YEARS of behavior by the Right-Wing CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST Republicans that since the time of Goldwater, through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II can be factually paralled to Hitler’s RIGHT-WING dialectic in “Mein Kamp”; if ardee, you, or anyone else wants to have a dialogue with regard to comparison of the Right-Wing CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN MOVEMENT from Goldwater to the PRESENT relative to the RIGHT-WING dialectic of Adolph Hitler in “Mein Kampf”, I would be happy to oblige.  However, I doubt seriously that the Right-Wingers will be obliging in a point by point line by line comparison of Right-Wing dialectic to Hitler’s RIGHT-WING dialectic in “Mein Kampf”.

Ardee & MarthaA just the facts please. The facts will shine out passed whatever insults you direct either way. Really, if your ideas and observations have merit then that is all you need. It is all that is really important. When you attack each other for personal things it lowers what you are saying. Please think of high standards and maintain them, not low ones. Thanx.

If Ardee is a sophist then point it out line by line and enlighten us in the process. Simply calling Ardee that is just name calling and weak. The same with MarthaA use facts and facts alone, not finger pointing. You wonder why the InterNet is disparaged so? It is because of this. It takes two, or more, to fight verbally.

Isn’t the dismantling of our budding empire just a little important? Yes the majority of the population if they were fully informed would probably be against it. But then with all of the propaganda for so many generations more might want an empire over a messy democratic-republic. That is the danger. Too many will want it or are indifferent because of the Great Depression we are under and right now they are living day-to-day or week-to-week or month-to-month just to survive. One of the ‘fringe benefits’ of putting us into this position.

Martha the insane

Get help.

ardee the sophist,

Grow up.

Night-Gaunt, August 5 at 12:42 pm

Truth matters, lies unopposed become as truth to many. Martha lies with regularity, posts false facts and attempts, at every opportunity to sidetrack the issues under discussion.

You are correct in your call for civility, and I acted with such in my first attempts to correct her nonsense. Some she has attacked refuse to respond any longer, I continue to do so , and in the style she herself constructed.

ardee the sophist,

I wonder, are those 15 grandchildren subjective grandchildren or objective grandchildren?  If, as I suspect, you are a 12 yr. old, they would be subjective.  Do you have any objective facts that can verify your subjective claims?

As usual, other than complain, you haven’t said anything useful.  If you think it bothers me, all your complaining sophistry, it doesn’t, not a bit.  I would like to see you add something useful to the dialog on this blog, with your rants.

Now what was that topic again you two? Act like adults please. If it gets personal then ignore it and only hit on the facts. Let the rest of us see what is real and what is sophistry. We can tell.

Is this an illusion going on between you two? Who is the constructive one and who isn’t. Both or neither? Part of the illusion is to construct their own versions of reality and sticking to it no matter what is unearthed. Just look at the mind fuck going on over Obama’s birthright. Also the concerted effort to paint the insurance friendly legislation as single payer socialist medicine! Right in front of us.

I wonder who Martha thinks she fools? Only herself I believe.

I stand by my accusations as accurate and, if they even read her increasingly strident and disturbed nonsense,the long term posters here possibly remember her stance changing on third party politics, and her noting of the sharing of computers ( her business yet she noted it???).

Making up statistics, denying the posting of other such because it refutes her addled and made up crap,and her inability to even remember her lies or post coherent dialogue all lead to my opinion that she is a disturbed and irrelevant individual.

Oh, and I HAD fourteen grandkids, my youngest daughter (30) gave birth Monday to my fifteenth, a beautiful baby boy.

Get help Martha, or get lost.

ardee the sophist,

There you go again, thinking you are great in your own mind.  It is amazing that you can rant on and on and not say anything, as usual.

Ardee lied: You said I said, “insisting that third party politics is the way to go”. 

Nowhere have I ever claimed that third party politics is the way to go. Third party’s are not institutionalized; therefore third party politics is a waste of time and money.  The way to go is a an institutionalized Multi-Party Political System, that is inclusive of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION as a Class and Culture.

My claim is and has always been to reform the Democratic Party by removing the CONSERVATIVES and Moderates, then after the Democratic Party is reformed use the Democratic Party to legislate a Multi-Party Political System, so that the 70% Majority Common Population will be represented. This is my position and has always been my position, you just have an intense problem with understanding what you read, or is it SOPHISTRY? 

Another Ardee lie:  You said I said, “viability and import of the Democratic Party as the ONLY solution to the illness in our political system”

I have never said one word about the viability and import of the Democratic Party.  The only solution I have ever stated is that the CONSERVATIVES and Moderates need to be voted out of the Democratic Party, so that the Democratic Party can be used as an instrument by the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION to create a Multi-Party Political System.  I’m surprised you do not know this, ardee, but after all, SOPHISTRY is intentional misrepresentation. 

Yet another Ardee misinformation, again:  “volunteered the information that he was “your brother” and you two could only afford one computer”

Our choice of use of our computer or whether or not we can afford other computers is our affair, much the same as your claim to have 13 grandchildren, when you act like a 12 year old, that is your affair, apparently you think that it is important for you to have 13 grandchildren.

Ardee finally truthful:  “My history of posting here makes my political positions perfectly clear”

Your political positions are perfectly clear.  Your subjective declaration that you are not a sophist, will not change the objective fact that you are a sophist.  I call you a sophist because the empirical evidence of your posts on this blog declare you to be a sophist.

As a sophist, all of your sophist rants mean exactly what?——NOTHING.

DBM, August 3 at 7:08 pm

I do understand your sentiment. It is, in my opinion, very important to shine the light of truth on liars and frauds, especially when we see such attempts to subvert the progress of progressive political discussion on every damn forum.

Hey!  There’s a Truthdig story with a Bill Maher clip about the Birthing thing.  All kinds of losers have found it on “the Google” and are chiming in.

Maybe that would be a good place for this personal discussion if you guys don’t want to exchange email addresses ...

MarthaA, August 2 at 7:50 pm #

The record, despite you insane babbling, is quite clear.

When first you and your alter ego made an appearance here, to the ultimate misfortune of truth and honest debate, you excoriated both KDelphi and myself for disagreeing with your addled and semi-coherent position on the viability and import of the Democratic Party as the ONLY solution to the illness in our political system. You did so with impoliteness and I have been responding to that initial attack with the same ever since. So dont play the innocent with me, asshole.

You have bounced from die hard fanaticism in defense of the Democrats, to insisting that third party politics is the way to go, back to fanaticism yet again. When your “alter ego appeared, using the same syntax, the same capitalizations, the same politics, and making the same points in exactly the same way it was YOU who volunteered the information that he was “your brother” and you two could only afford one computer. Now you have forgotten your own lies in the matter..How sad for you.

I do transcend the boundaries of politeness by naming you insane, but, at the same time, I uphold the tenets of honesty, I fear you are exactly that.

You are a clumsy liar,one who forgets her own statements and contradicts them. You are a basically ignorant person whose politics is imbedded in fanatical misrepresentations that are true only in your own mind. You say I wish you off this forum, and , frankly, I do, despite my complete belief in free speech. You offer nothing of value, you waste time better spent on real rather than delusional politics.

When some poster posts a word or phrase you like, you leap on it like a dog on a bone and misuse it endlessly. You call me a ‘Republican Sophist’, not due to any empirical evidence of such leanings, but because I post counter to your own twisted and illogical beliefs. My history of posting here makes my political positions perfectly clear I think, clear except of course to one who devalues clarity in adoration of partisanship and meanspirited nonsense.

The best and most caring thing I can say to you is get help. Find a mental health professional who can, in some years or decades of therapy and medication, bring relief….

ardee the sophist,

Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. You’re convinced you know something in your own mind and want me off this blog, because I make you think about reality, instead of idealism and conservative doctrine.  Thank God, this is a liberal blog, instead of a conservative blog playing like its liberal.

What difference does my IP address make to you?  I could be at a library.

You whine all the time and no one on this blog has talked worse to me than you; I am not always whining and trying to tattle on you, so stop it, grow up. ENOUGH of your childishness.  You say you have grandchildren, then it’s definitely time for you to grow up and get past playground squealing.

I call you a sophist, because that is exactly what I believe you are. The following excerpts from George Orwell’s book “Nineteen Eighty-four” define the nature and intent of your sophistry; sophistry that I consider to be contrary to the National interest and that should be criminalized and punished as a crime, because your sophistry is with intent to do harm to others and exercise power and control over others in pursuit of your own greedy economic gain as a minion for the RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS that you work for. Much of your dialogue on this blog is within the framework of the Culture of Critical Discourse and authoritatively underpinned by a 21st Century revision of the “Eleventh Edition of the Newspeak dictionary” discussed by Winston Smith and his friend Syme, also, in George Orwell’s book “Nineteen Eighty-four”, both excerpts are as follows:

““Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?  In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.  Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.  Already, in the Eleventh Edition, we’re not far from that point.  But the process will still be continuing long after you and I are dead.  Every year fewer and fewer words, and the range of consciousness always a little smaller.  Even now, of course, there’s no reason or excuse for committing thoughtcrime.  It’s merely a question of self-discipline, reality-control.  But in the end there won’t be any need even for that.  The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.  Newspeak is Ingsoc and Ingsoc is Newspeak,” he added with a sort of mystical satisfaction.  “Has it ever occurred to you, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?”“

““By 2050—-earlier, probably—-all real knowledge of Oldspeak will have disappeared.  The whole literature of the past will have been destroyed.  Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Byron—-they’ll exist only in Newspeak versions, not merely changed into something different, but actually changed into something contradictory of what they used to be.  Even the literature of the Party will change.  Even the slogans will change.  How could you have a slogan like ‘freedom is slavery’ when the concept of freedom has been abolished?  The whole climate of thought will be different.  In fact there will be no thought, as we understand it now.  Orthodoxy means not thinking—-not needing to think.  Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”“
Are you a man or a mouse?  Squeak up.  Few people whine like you. Most people have enough backbone to support what they say without getting mad.  The only people that I have ever encountered that whined about everything continually like YOU were RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISTS on Liberal blogs that weren’t really liberal.
CONSERVATISM can’t hold up under the light of Liberalism.  Jesus the Christ was a liberal, check out this website:  http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/

... and thank you then for something “on topic”!

I agree with all that.  Having been raised in the U.S. and spending most of my adult life outside, it was a slow process to start to perceive the world as more complex than “us & them”.

Still, even for those raised in the U.S. media bubble I find it hard to believe Chomsky’s famous point that media people are selected for their beliefs.  He famously responded to a right-wing BBC interviewer (he gets interviewed on TV overseas) who asked him “Are you calling me a liar?” with “No, No, I am just saying that if you didn’t believe the things you do, you wouldn’t be in the position you’re in.”

However, when I hear the Hannitys, Becks, Dobbs and so on going on about ideas which can only be supported by “people with a marginal grasp of logic” (as a REPUBLICAN commentator recently described the “Birther” movement), I find it hard to believe that anyone who can string 10 words together could actually believe the things they say.  Rather they seem to be happy to cash in on an audience a lot dumber than they are. 

I can believe that Sarah Palin actually thinks what she says ... when I can understand what she says.  I find it a lot harder to believe that Sean Hannity, who can put up a very cogent ad hominem attack with the best of them, actually believes the crap he supports.

Conspiracy?  Not really.  I just think that there are plenty of commentators willing to support an ideology skewed sharply towards the advantage of moneyed interests so that they can enrich themselves.  There may be a few actual racists in there too.  But the idea that right wing commentators are selected for their beliefs and promoted on that basis seems hard to swallow.

... maybe I give them too much credit.

The topic is illusion and the empire it holds up. The external empire of the USA. A peculiure creature, a republic on the inside and empire on the outside. One will not stand and I think it will be the republic if it doesn’t change how it is operating.

As Chomsky, Zinn and others have pointed out it doesn’t take a conspiracy of any great size and complexity to get to where we are. All it takes is a few who take over most of the good slots and reward those who agree with their view of the world and its peoples & fire those who don’t. Ours is one of the most entrenched and successful of them all. I read constantly of how when those who come from out side the propaganda wall coming in and those from here who visit out there are stunned at the world and how much they aren’t privy to or how much is narrowed within the “Greatest Country on God’s Green Earth.” That includes such sloganeering as that phrase previous.  If you think it then that will be the truth of the matter. I see it constantly and hear it aud nausem as a din of background noise. People i know and don’t know repeating whole phrases verbatim to a degree I recognized it. Just listen to the noise machine of the radio and TV to hear it again and again. I listen to it because we must know where our enemy stands and what they are doing now and tomorrow.

Once the system is self perpetuating all you need do is ‘goose’ it from time to time to see how effective it still is. Then adjust it accordingly. You must understand that “1984” was a parodic exaggeration to highlight just what could happen. Now it is very common and accepted because of its commonality. Familiarity breeds not contempt but acceptance!

This is well on topic.

That sounds elaborate and hardly worth the effort!

DBM, August 2 at 1:43 am #

Well ... since there seems no hope of getting back on topic I will ask a question which has pressed me since a couple days ago when you, Ardee, suggested that MarthA and Thomas are writing from the same IP address.  How do you know?
.........................

Because, in possible anticipation of that discovery, he/she posited to being “brother and sister” sharing the same computer…

Further, the posting styles, the use of grammar, capitalizations, idioms et al indicate the same person posts under both names.

Well ... since there seems no hope of getting back on topic I will ask a question which has pressed me since a couple days ago when you, Ardee, suggested that MarthA and Thomas are writing from the same IP address.  How do you know?

As for the rest ... that rhetoric or propaganda are always forcing a binary decision of some sort is way too simplistic as Night-Gaunt has already correctly said.  I once read an anecdote about a soviet official visiting the U.S. and marvelling at the way the media (then called “the press”) was kept so totally on message in the U.S. without the threat of violent repression.  The way this works is subtle but effective. 

Every once in a while something happens too fast and the official narrative is not established fast enough.  Katrina is the best recent example ... even Haraldo (or whatever that bushy mustached loser on Fox News is called) condemned the government emergency response.  Of course the next time (I think a year later or so) that there was a hurricane anywhere near Louisiana, there he was again before anything happened on camera saying how fantastically well the emergency response was being managed ... penance for his previous slip.

For anyone who doesn’t read a lot there is an excellent documentary series which focuses in part on Edward Bernaise and the birth of “Public Relations” and advertising called “The Century of Self”.  I very highly recommend it.  It describes the advent of advertising in its modern form and, more ominously, the way is has more recently been applied in the political and well as commercial arenas.

Night Gaunt,

If rhetoric is emotional, and pressing you to one of two choices, it is the entirety of what propaganda is, all other political deception is sophistry, and, sadly, both have been and are still being used against the citizens of our great nation today.

A great book to read for enlightenment and understanding about our nation’s political roots is “Social Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy; Lord and Peasant in the Making of The Modern World” by Barrington Moore, Jr.

I like Chomsky, but my most favorite author is Howard Zinn http://www.swaptree.com/WebFrmLandingPageBasic.aspx?mediatype=1&authorID=568588&promotioncode=GOOG_BooksArt3Q&gclid=CJ2k7Y3Fg5wCFShRagod-DiV_A.  Howard Zinn doesn’t guild the American lily, which is imperative for people in a nation, if that nation is going to be free, to know the truth about history, because all the sophistry that is presented has been to dumb down our citizens into passive robots for the RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS’ and their toadies’ manipulation to run over as they please.

Night Gaunt,

If rhetoric is emotional, and pressing you to one of two choices, it is the entirety of what propaganda is, all other political deception is sophistry, and, sadly, both have been and are still being used against the citizens of our great nation today.

A great book to read for enlightenment and understanding about our nation’s political roots is “Social Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy; Lord and Peasant in the Making of The Modern World” by Barrington Moore, Jr.

I like Chomsky, but my most favorite author is Howard Zinn http://www.swaptree.com/WebFrmLandingPageBasic.aspx?mediatype=1&authorID=568588&promotioncode=GOOG_BooksArt3Q&gclid=CJ2k7Y3Fg5wCFShRagod-DiV_A.  Howard Zinn doesn’t guild the American lily, which is imperative for people in a nation, if that nation is going to be free, to know the truth about history, because all the sophistry that is presented has been to dumb down our citizens into passive robots for the RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS’ and their toadies’ manipulation to run over as they please however they please.

Um, MarthaA I put that part in quotes and italicized because it wasn’t me talking but those who have an Aristotelian and Manichean view of the world. Rather like former co-president George W. Bush a black and white view of a multi-colored world. It is a dangerous thing.

The world is far more than a mere binary. You wasted a great deal of time on that. Propaganda comes in three forms, white, gray and black. The more truth in it the harder it is to detect and refute. As it becomes more sophisticated, so must we.

The USA is one of the most propagandized countries on earth and the most successful at it. Read about Edward Bernaise a relative of Freud who found a way to manipulate the masses to follow whatever the powers that be wanted and with enthusiasm. Also Dr. Wilhelm Reich‘s “Mass Psychology of Fascism” too will be illuminating on empire and the illusions manufactured for consent by Dr.Chomsky too.

ardee the sophist,

You said: “Binary means composed of two parts or two pieces.”

WOW! I am surprised at you.  This is correct.  Why didn’t you stop there?????  Of course, you couldn’t, you got all the rest of that stuff off Wikipedia or Conservapedia or wherever and appear to not have a clue as to what it means. 

You didn’t find the point of the post, because you are too emotional.  Your emotions led you to a false conclusion fixating on disecting binary, without any thought of emotional or rhetoric.

TWO is binary, but without a search engine, would you have ever figured it out? Propaganda is ONLY about TWO EMOTIONAL CHOICES and the rhetoric leads to those choices, which you totally ignored, off on a tangent about mathematics, science, computers, etc. You are great for disinformation to keep you in the box, but appear to be incapable of getting out of the box—- horrible sophist, haven’t I told you that before, but you keep trying.

[Had to make some corrections]

ardee the sophist,

You said: “Binary means composed of two parts or two pieces.”

WOW, I am surprised at you.  This is correct.  Why didn’t you stop there?????  Of course, you couldn’t, you got all the rest of that stuff off Wikipedia or Conservapedia or wherever and appear to not have a clue as to what it means. 

You didn’t find the point of the post, because you are too emotional.  Your emotions led you to a false conclusion fixating on bisecting binary, without any thought of emotional or rhetoric.

TWO is binary, but without a search engine, would you have ever figured it out? Propaganda is ONLY about TWO EMOTIONAL CHOICES and the rhetoric leads to those choices, which you totally ignored, off on a tangent about mathematics, science, computers, etc. Your are great for disinformation to keep you in the box, but appear to be incapable of getting out of the box—- horrible sophist, haven’t I told you that before, but you keep trying.

ardee the sophist,

You said: “Binary means composed of two parts or two pieces.”

WOW!  I am surprised at you.  This is correct.  Why didn’t you stop there?????  Of course, you couldn’t, you got all the rest of that stuff off Wikipedia or Conservapedia or wherever and appear to not have a clue as to what it means. 

You didn’t find the point of the post, because you are too emotional.  Your emotions led you to a false conclusion fixating on bisecting binary, without any thought of emotional or rhetoric.

TWO is binary, but without a search engine, would you have ever figured it out? Propaganda is ONLY about TWO EMOTIONAL CHOICES and the rhetoric leads to those choices, which you totally ignored, off on a tangent about mathematics, science, computers, etc. Your are great for disinformation to keep you in the box, but appear to be incapable of getting out of the box—- horrible sophist, haven’t I told you that before, but you keep trying.

Binary means composed of two parts or two pieces. It contrasts with Unary, Ternary, Quaternary, and so on.

Binary may also refer to:

In mathematics:

  * Binary numeral system, a representation for numbers using only two digits (usually, 0 and 1)
  * Binary function, a function in mathematics that takes two arguments

In computing:

  * Binary data, composed of something other than human-readable text
  * Executable, a “binary”, containing machine code for the computer to execute
  * Binary code, the digital representation of text and data

In science:

  * Binary compound, a chemical compound containing two different chemical elements
      o Binary explosive, an explosive made of two components that become explosive when mixed
      o Binary (chemical weapon), containing two chemicals that when combined make a toxic agent
  * Binary fission, the splitting of a single-celled organism into two daughter cells
  * Binary star, a star system with two stars in it
  * Binary planet, two planetary bodies of comparable mass orbiting each other
  * Binary asteroid, two asteroids orbiting each other

Other:

  * Binary option, also known as digital option or all-or-nothing option, in finance
  * Binary (novel), a 1972 novel by Michael Crichton (writing as John Lange)
  * Binary (comics), a superheroine in the Marvel Universe
  * Binary form, a way of structuring a piece of music
  * Binary bet, a bet on a proposition which is quoted as a spread bet
  * Binary thinking, polar opposites, often ignoring the middle ground
  * Binary, a 2007 single by Assemblage 23 from the album Meta

[edit] See also

  * Binary prefix, indicating magnitude multipliers in a base-two number system (e.g., kilo-, kibi-, etc.)
  * Binary tree, a computer tree data structure in which each node has at most two children
  * Binary-coded decimal, a method for encoding for decimal digits in binary sequences
  * Finger binary, a system for counting in binary numbers on the fingers of human hands
  * Binomial (disambiguation)

....Im just saying….

Night Gaunt,

If you have to fight the urge to go along with a binary frame, then you should know that you are under the influence of propaganda.

Propaganda is binary emotional rhetoric.

I suggest that you make an effort to expand your choices beyond one of the two emotional choices that the rhetoric of propaganda leads you to accept, to the exclusion of all of the rest of the diversity of the cosmos.

With regard to the United States being the “most incredible, superlative, blessed, superior people on the planet”, you left out with life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and with freedom and justice for all; the catch is that when all of this is said, what is left out is that it is “for all of us, maybe not you!”

Do you know the difference between subjective and objective reality, and how propaganda is used to get people to accept subjective reality in the place of objective reality?  You might want to spend a little time thinking about propaganda and its use to lead people to accept subjective reality in the place of objective reality—- then you might think more about the “most incredible, superlative, blessed, superior people on the planet” with life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and freedom and justice for all, and whether or not this applies to you in a subjective or objective manner.

MarthaA you must mean Conservapedia don’t you? Wikipedia is hardly ‘conservative’ (read theocrat of Dixie) unless your are extremely sensitive to what you consider it to be. How about some examples and compare them to Conservapedia which was created by reich wingers because to them Wikipedia is too ‘liberal.’ Have a look then report back okay?

One of the most dangerous things about those who wish to push us into an even more dangerous empire both externally and internally is to foster a false sense of things. “We are the most incredible, superlative, blessed,  superior people on the planet.” Is that true or just jingoism that is put forth as truth as often as possible? So much so that it is repeated by many word-for-word in a mechanical rout learned kind-of-way.

When it is ubiquitous and dinned in so many places so much of the time you have to fight the urge to go along with it. I have to. Don’t you?

cyrena, July 31 at 12:26 am #

There is a time to get mad. There is a time to stand up and reject insanity and nonsense. This poster, in her various guises, emanating from the same IP address by the by, posts lies and distortions of the facts of American politics, bounces nuttily from defense of the Democratic Party and calls for the creation of third party politics, to uncivil responses to facts rejecting his/her imaginary statistics and initially my responses to her/him/it were civil.

That civility was rejected most sarcastically and her alter ego, Thomas, in his/her first effort here, insanely boasted that he/she had brought down several left wing forums for the crime of disagreeing with his analysis. Quite sane there huh?

You place civility on a high rung, and I agree that, with honest and intelligent people such is the way to converse and debate. Martha/Thomas is not such a one , nor are the trolls who post egregious lies and seek only to deflect the thread from its course. This nation is in dire straits and I treat posters as they treat me. Call me a liar and I will respond in kind, consider and weigh my opinions and I will respond in the same manner.

Maybe its time that you,. yourself, jumped in the pool.

Cyrena,

Possibly here: http://www.truthdig.com/report/category/hedges/

“War Without Purpose” certainly triggered a lot of discussion ...

By MarthaA, July 30 at 10:55 pm #

ardee the sophist,

Since you are referencing my post, apparently you don’t have enough brain cells to converse with ThomasG, EITHER, and it appears you are having difficulty conversing rationally with Gordy, as well; MAD is always your solution if you are not agreed with, and you’re seldom right, which makes me wonder why you post on this blog: Is it for disinformation? or what? Could it be sophistry?

~*~*

Well MarthaA, this brought a wry chuckle. You figured out what I figured out a couple or so years back when I first started reading and posting here.

The internet brings out all sorts of kooks. Ardee is just part of the pool.

Meantime, I was reading another piece by Chris Hedges here a couple of days ago, and now it seems to be gone, and I can’t remember the title to dig it out of the archives. It was really an excellent piece on the corporate structure, and how they operate to gain and maintain (from the employees) fidelity to the master - the Corporation. Does anybody remember it? I only got halfway thru the piece, and now I can’t find it….

Hmmm ... no offence intended but between the definition of sophistry, wikipedia, statistics and accusations of “Conservative” (shock! horror! ... I suspect we’re referring to the radicals who call themselves “conservative” at present) we have gotten a little off the track of discussing Chris Hedges new book.

Hedges is a great thinker who deserves to be read, digested and discussed.  The to and fro’ in here is not adding much to the debate.  If you’re confident in your position and your argument then let the odd ad hominem response go.  Your ideas will stand up for themselves.

Sorry if that sounds “preachy”...

ardee the sophist,

Since you are referencing my post, apparently you don’t have enough brain cells to converse with ThomasG, EITHER, and it appears you are having difficulty conversing rationally with Gordy, as well; MAD is always your solution if you are not agreed with, and you’re seldom right, which makes me wonder why you post on this blog: Is it for disinformation? or what? Could it be sophistry?

Wikipedia is a real intellectual source, I’m impressed…NOT.  Wikipedia is RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST information that apparently YOU have bought lock, stock and barre, like 286.9%. Once in a while Wikipedia gets something correct, but being absolutely correct is not their objective.  Can you say control?  Wikipedia is for control of information, it’s all that YOU need to know to serve your purpose as a lesser sophist.

The cat has been let out of the bag about the use of sophistry, and it is the use of sophistry that has caused all the ills our nation is enduring today, but of course, you know that, being one of the lesser sophists that believe Wikipedia.

ardee the sophist,

Since you are referencing my post, apparently you don’t have enough brain cells to converse with ThomasG, EITHER, and it appears you are having difficulty conversing rationally with Gordy, as well; MAD is always your solution if you are not agreed with, and you’re seldom right, which makes me wonder why you post on this blog: Is it for disinformation? or what? Could it be sophistry?

Wikipedia is a real intellectual source, I’m impressed…NOT.  Wikipedia is RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST information that apparently YOU have bought lock, stock and barrel, like 286.9%. Once in a while Wikipedia gets something correct, but being absolutely correct is not their objective.  Can you say control?  Wikipedia is for control of information, it’s all that YOU need to know to serve your purpose as a lesser sophist.

The cat has been let out of the bag about the use of sophistry, and it is the use of sophistry that has caused all the ills our nation is enduring today, but of course, you know that, being one of the lesser sophists that believe Wikipedia.

Wow both personalities coming out in the same thread…scary…..

I assume you have never taken a class in statistical analysis, as your comments reveal that ignorance. By the by moron, shouldnt you take up your complaint with the author of those statistics , found atWikipedia….but no, all you wish to do is dump on me, regardlesss of how very bad it makes you look.

Questioning statistics after you posted the silliest crap about 30% this and 70% that is pretty damn funny.

Dammit KDelphi as you are the one who taught this dualism the word ‘sophist’ I blame you!

Sophistry in support of the unregenerate “Gordon Gekko Style”  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7upG01-XWbY deindustrialization of America that created a Mercantile Economy in the United States based upon the import of Asian Commodities made with cheap Asian labor, and bought in America by way of a Reaganomics introduced “Borrow and Spend Supply-Side Economy” that destroyed the strength of the U.S. Manufacturing Economy and created financialization that elevated Asian economies, namely China and India, at the expense of the U.S. Economy and the National interests of the United States must not be allowed to continue.

Sophistry covered up the dialogue of what was happening when it was happening with Goldwater, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and sophistry keeps what was done covered up; if any type of a solution, that is of benefit to the collective population of the United States, is to be formulated and employed for the greater good, the dialogue is going to have to change in the United States from one of sophistry, to recognition of cause and effect, that got the United States to the point where it is at; so that “wrong way”, “no way” and “way”—- the process of thought—- can be employed to chart a course of best interest for the greater good of the United States as a Nation.

A good first step would be to round up all of the greater and lesser sophists that enabled the deindustrialization and financialization of the United States of America, and put them on trial as criminals that willingly sold out the National Security of the United States for short-term profit.

ardee the sophist,

Just because you say an overlap makes up the difference for 186.9 percent in excess of the standard 100 percent that everyone else uses, doesn’t make it so, ardee; and calling me names is a sign of an inferior intellect that is having difficulty coping. A little more specificity in your CONSERVATIVE DOCTRINE is in order, don’t you think? Or, are you getting liberally creative with your percentages? WOW, what an overlap.

As usual, this is not first rate sophistry, ardee.

MarthaA, July 29 at 10:45 pm #

Try harder , you poor and obviously disturbed person. Can you not post a rebuttal that doesnt prove your serious deficits?

For your lack of reading comprehension skills I repost from that paste:

Social classes in the U.S. lack distinct boundaries and may overlap. The following table provides a summary of currently prominent academic theories on the stratification of American society:
........................................

DBM, July 30 at 1:52 am #

Thank you for an insightful and mature response. A relief from the ravings of our resident schizoid.

I am in full agreement with your comments regarding the isolation of our leadership from the wishes of the majority of Americans.

I don’t know, Ardee.  There is the theory of the “bewildered herd” whose “consent” can be easily “manufactured”.  But despite the distractions of 8 TV a day, professional wrestling, pornography, bread and circuses it seems that there are firm majorities in favour of:

*  Government Provided / Taxpayer funded Health Care
*  Re-enactment of financial regulation
*  Vastly reduced military spending

It would seem that the problem is not that there are so few crying out in the isolation but rather that those in power are completely impervious to the desires of the electorate.

IMHO - There is an awful lot that could be addressed through establishing stringent campaign funding restrictions.  The optimist in me makes me think that lots of things would be possible after that.

Ardee the Sophist,

How many percent is there in 100 percent?  Your total percentage in your post is 286.9 percent in 100 percent.  How exactly does that work?
I am not familiar with your type of fuzzy math. Is this sophist math, or voo doo math or is it just plain old who doo math?

Apparently you figure the Nobles and Nearly Nobles are more than 30 percent, because your figures show 37.9 percent for Nobles and Nearly Nobles, which is much higher than I think they are.

Social class
Main article: Social class in the United States

Social classes in the U.S. lack distinct boundaries and may overlap. The following table provides a summary of currently prominent academic theories on the stratification of American society:

Capitalist class (1%)    Top-level executives, high-rung politicians, heirs. Ivy League education common.

Upper class 1%    Top-level executives, celebrities, heirs; income of $500,000+ common. Ivy league education common.

The super-rich (0.9%)    Multi-millionaires whose incomes commonly exceed $350,000; includes celebrities and powerful executives/politicians. Ivy League education common.

The Rich (5%)    Households with net worth of $1 million or more; largely in the form of home equity. Generally have college degrees.

Upper middle class[1] (15%)    Highly educated (often with graduate degrees), most commonly salaried, professionals and middle management with large work autonomy

Upper middle class[1] (15%)    Highly educated (often with graduate degrees) professionals & managers with household incomes varying from the high 5-figure range to commonly above $100,000

Middle class (plurality/
majority?; ca. 46%)    College educated workers with incomes considerably above-average incomes and compensation; a man making $57,000 and a woman making $40,000 may be typical.

Lower middle class (30%)   

Semi-professionals and craftsmen with a roughly average standard of living. Most have some college education and are white collar.

Lower middle class (32%)    Semi-professionals and craftsman with some work autonomy; household incomes commonly range from $35,000 to $75,000. Typically, some college education.

Working class (30%)    Clerical and most blue collar workers whose work is highly routinized. Standard of living varies depending on number of income earners, but is commonly just adequate. High school education.

Working class (32%)    Clerical, pink and blue collar workers with often low job security; common household incomes range from $16,000 to $30,000. High school education.

Working class (ca. 40% - 45%)    Blue collar workers and those whose jobs are highly routinized with low economic security; a man making $40,000 and a woman making $26,000 may be typical. High school education.

Working poor (13%)
  Service, low-rung clerical and some blue collar workers. High economic insecurity and risk of poverty. Some high school education.

Lower class (ca. 14% - 20%)    Those who occupy poorly-paid positions or rely on government transfers. Some high school education.

Underclass (12%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

It looks like Empire in the United States as well as the world.

If the Noble are called Nobility and those Nearly Noble are called Middle Class, what is it that all of those “other people” that populate the United States as a nation of 300 Million people are called?

Let’s see now; Noble is taken, Middle Class is taken—- How about nearly Middle Class? No, that doesn’t sound right.  Perhaps we could say ignoble majority population???  If we cast aspersions on those that are not Noble, it wouldn’t look appropriate for the Middle Class; so we can’t do that.

We could go back to Britain being ruled by the aristocracy and relate to this problem as in English Law that Nobles are a division of the people, comprehending Dukes, Marquises, Earls, Viscounts and Barons; if we call this class of people the Nobles in American Society, we define Class as the order or rank according to which persons or things are assorted, we can then define the Middle Class as the Nearly Noble. 

How many people in the United States are Noble?  And, how many people in the United States are Nearly Noble?  Think about it.

If we allow that 30% of the United States population is either Noble or Nearly Noble, what are all of the people that are not Noble or Nearly Noble called, since they are only common people?

Could it be that the order and rank of the 70% majority population of the United States, since they are not Noble or Nearly Noble, are common? 

If indeed the 70% majority population of “other people” in the United States is a population that is not Noble, or Nearly Noble; what could this population of the United States be called?  Could this 70% majority population of the United States possibly be a Common Population that is a 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION?

What do we call a division of the people that constitute a 70% majority population of the United States that are common people who are not Noble or Nearly Noble?

Let me see now, they are not Noble or Nearly Noble, they are common people and they are a 70% MAJORITY POPULATION of the United States.  Could it be that this population of common people in the United States could be a 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States when considered by their order or rank constitute a Class and Culture?  Is it possible that there is a 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION as a Class and Culture in the United States? Or, does the United States have a 70% Majority population that is POOR with a 10% population that is Noble and a 20% population that is Nearly Noble?

I am trying desperately to understand what the 70% MAJORITY POPULATION of the United States is that is not Noble and is not Nearly Noble. And, I need some help in understanding this difficult and thorny problem, because I was taught in school that we in the United States are all free and equal, with life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and freedom and justice for all; all of this Noble and Nearly Noble that constitutes a 30% minority population of the United States conflicts with the idealism of freedom that I was taught in school, and the idea of a 70% MAJORITY POPULATION that are ALL common people as a class and culture is hard to reconcile with democracy, because they are not represented by a political party and do not have a seat at the table of government to make and enforce law that is in their benefit; could it be that all of my stated concerns define the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION both as a Class and a Culture that is much like the Helots in Ancient Greece? Could it be?  Think about it.

The Left Wing Blogosphere has been filled with such acusations of corporate control over the lives of Americans, whether through rampant consumerism or actual control of our legislators, and for a very long time. Yet we nod our heads and life goes on.

We see today such nonsensical accusatory statements from our “friends across the aisle” as the penultimate paragraph from night-gaunt  above makes clear, yet it seems that , as outlandish and untrue they may be, they find a willing audience still. Is the emergence of a Sarah Palin onto the national stage anything less than a symptom of a great illness in our political judgement?

As stated so aptly in the article, “Anticorporate jeremiads have become a dime a dozen in this, the year of our economic discontent.” Yet we think little about the trillion dollar giveaways to crooks that ruint he future for our children.

and:

“In reality, Hedges writes in his book, we have become “virtually disempowered” by corporate America. As employees, we are little more than disposable commodities, and as consumers we are addicted to goods we don’t need.”

“He (Hedges) asserts that one of our greatest illusions is that reform is possible without questioning the system itself.”

But we do not question, excepting for a small and unheard number of us posting in anonymity here and there….....What on earth is it going to take I wonder?

“The cult of self dominates our cultural landscape [and] . . . has the classic traits of psychopaths: superficial charm, grandiosity, and self-importance; a need for constant stimulation, a penchant for lying, deception, and manipulation; and the inability to feel remorse or guilt.”—Chris Hedges

Yes the corporate mind set is that of the psychopath. They are barely 4-6% of our population but they have a disproportionate influence because they crave power. You will only succeed it you follow the traits given by them and are rewarded by them for doing so. If you have a conscience and care about others you will be called a failure and probably will be one in that system. They move to the top of command hierarchies because they will do anything to anyone to get there. They consider themselves superior because of that fact. For the rest of us we are the easily willing dupes to their duplicities and chicanaries.

A sychopathocracy in the making for years. They have the tools, talent and money to make it happen. But they are patient. Their numbers are small. They have learned what they needed from their failure in 1934 and since 1980 have been slowly taking the Land of the Free down the path to ruin. As with any aspect of the Shock Doctrine, they will rebuild on the ruins of it. Just as they have in many other countries. [Coming home to roost.]

This also includes the main line churches that they infiltrate in “steeplejacking” maneuvers to make them one with the central ethos of God given powers of wealth and control over all others (lessers.) That God won’t come till the earth is evangelized by the sword and marketing campaign for every jot and tittle there. [I think they will give themselves a thousand years to do it.]

They have been converting millions to their way of looking at the world. Most won’t be wealthy but they will still believe God will smile on them and they will get it. That carrot always out of reach. A herding action. Any who don’t go along will be few and far between and what happens to them will be a lesson to to all the others.

Glen Beck is doing his part to steer everyone away from the Dominionists and to the Progressives as the villains. Obama is a “Marxist and Socialist” and leading us to “socialized medicine” and an army of “community service providers” as our SA. Even though Obama has been continuing what has been done since Reagan to turn our republic into a fascist theocracy which is his job.

The best time to kill someone is when their guard is lowered, when they think the threat is over and they are with a friend.