That’s funny, Ed Harges…

How about having your burqa painted with the image of a nude (male or female - your choice) like those BBQ joke aprons. Now that’s a show stopper… gives a whole new meaning to “being Photoshopped.” In any case, I can’t think of anything more UNNATURAL than hiding yourself underneath a tent.

I really think that followers of MOST religions need their heads examined. But then look at a Hassidic Jew’s get up - right out of the middle ages. I’ll probably offend but every time I see one of these fellas I’m LMAO inside - (even I am not rude enough to do it to their face.) I mean, what’s the point of telegraphing to the entire world that your mind is F**KED?

There there’s the Eastern Orthodox Christian religion’s decorations, especially their churches and clergy - have you EVER seen anything more ostentatious outside of a circus?

Then, of course, there’s the Pope - in his Virgin White and gold with jewels, etc. Can you IMAGINE what CHRIST would say coming face-to-face with that costume?

Then there’s the image of hundreds of Buddhist Monks in their saffron and burgandy wraps RIOTING in the streets. Peace, man.

I mean, folks, honestly. Are we ALL INSANE or what?

Do like the orthodox women of Brooklyn. They gotta cover their hair (it says so in their stupid book), but they don’t want to look like their hair is covered, so they plop on a bad wig. But then they think that looks too immodest, so they wear a scarf that partly covers that.

It looks really awkward and ugly, and it must be hot and uncomfortable. Thus the basic monotheistic religious compulsion to punish women for being women is satisfied, and everybody is as happy as the bible will allow.

How about this: throw on a burqa, then paint a woman’s face on it, slap a wig on top, and then sort of semi-cover the whole thing with a veil.

You see, we can all adjust to “modernity” if we just learn to compromise!

Ellery - what you’re “missing” is the serious concern stated by Purple Girl:

“Peoples faces are basically easily decernible ‘fingerprints’. Airports, public areas, court houses are all monitored to public safety- if you can not identify someone it would be impossible to determine if they posed a threat or committed a crime.Someone robs a store in a Burqa- how the hell do you give a description of the Perp- Man? Woman? White? black?Thin/heavy.. and forget about any unique features. Merely Ditch the Burqa and no one is able to point you out, thus unable to prosecute due to lack of ‘eyewitness’.
And for court proceedings how the hell can the court prove the person testifying is who they say they are?”

Ellery, if you feel fine about going about your daily business amongst anonymous “burqas” then I guess you don’t have a problem with it. But I do. I want to be able to see and identify those near me at all times. I do not feel secure being forced to deal in public places in what amounts to a 24/7 Masquerade Ball!

If these women want/need to wear their head-to-toe coverings for personal/religious/cultural reasons then fine - at home, in their gardens, in their mosques. But in public places or while driving a vehicle (or being involved in any other activity where knowing what’s going on around you and the freedom to move quickly is required) NO BURQAS.

Dictating what anyone can and cannot wear goes against the basic tenants of democracy. This is an absurd discussion. Selah and omop are two of the only posters here who seem to grasp this.

Re Selah: “skimming through most of the comments on this thread, it’s sad how ignorant many people can be even when they claim they are for freedom and democracy. you’ve applied a western view on these women who come from different societies and may hold different perspectives.”

Selah, since Muslim women in some of these countries are severely punished and physically beaten and/or executed if they do not wear the burqa, I’m not sure I understand your point.  Are you suggesting that Muslim women do not feel the same level of pain that a woman in the West might feel? If so, I don’t agree.

it’s ironic how Sarcozy is trying to liberate these women by dictating what she can and cannot wear. that sounds more like fascism than freedom of choice to me.

if the French government really cares about these women and how they are supposedly forced to wear the burqa, why doesn’t the government provide services to these women to ensure that it is their choice to wear the burqa and that it is not forced. has a women wear a burqa in France come out and said that she is being oppressed and enslaved?

skimming through most of the comments on this thread, it’s sad how ignorant many people can be even when they claim they are for freedom and democracy. you’ve applied a western view on these women who come from different societies and may hold different perspectives and rather than try to see what those perspectives are - you immediately pass judgement that she’s “enslaved” and “oppressed” in a scary looking sheet that is a threat to you. please..

Yes, prgill, I agree modesty and humility are admirable qualities, but since Islamic men are not required to wear the burqa to demonstrate their own personal modesty, it seems to me the burqa must represent something else - as to what it represents, I’m not sure.  Suppression is the most immediate thing that comes to my mind, however, simply because I’ve noted the countries that require women to wear these burqas also believe in punishing female victims of rape, which is obviously cruel, unjust and irrational reasoning.

Of course, most of the other great world religions also seem to have questionable practices and double standards from a religious perspective when to comes women.  As you say, for example, the Christian bible speaks a lot about humility, yet, look at the number of men in the West who are in an uproar over the concept of female ministers. Clearly, it is less than humble to suggest that these men know who God may or may not inspire to become a minister - talk about human ego and arrogance going amuck. 

As for the situation in France, I have mixed feelings about a solution. On the one hand, I really don’t care what people wear and believe people have the right to wear whatever they want, but I do understand the French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s concern from a social perspective and believe he is right about the burqa being a symbol of women’s “enslavement”  -  and what an ugly and arrogant symbol it is when you think about it.  The egotistical husbands of these women should forever hide their heads in shame.

In re: Purple girl states, “Should have come at that as a National Security issue”.

A group of Afghan women wearing “burkas” were recently interviewed by a woman reporter for ( Lets just call it an unnamed Western Magazine) and were asked their reaction to Sarkozy’s decision to ban “burkas”; and the comments published in the western media that they did provide cover for terrorists to carry dynamite sticks and therefore were a National Security issue.

Their unanimous response was that their primary national security concern were dodging the bombs dropped by NATO drones that killed an average of some 36 men, women and children daily. One of the respondants went so far as to ask rhetorically how many, “americans, english, or french are killed daily by Afghan women or men wearing burkas”?

Should have come at that as a National Security issue.
Peoples faces are basically easily decernible ‘fingerprints’. Airports, public areas, court houses are all monitored to public safety- if you can not identify someone it would be impossible to determine if they posed a threat or committed a crime.Someone robs a store in a Burqa- how the hell do you give a description of the Perp- Man? Woman? White? black?Thin/heavy.. and forget about any unique features.Merely Ditch the Burqa and no one is able to point you out, thus unable to prosecute due to lack of ‘eyewitness’.
And for court proceedings how the hell can the court prove the person testifying is who they say they are?
Lets be honest when it comes to committing a crime covering your face is the first order of business- what a benefit to have your entire body covered, you wouldn’t even have to ditch your clothing.
Now he’s up to his neck in civil rights debates and accusations of Religious discrimination.
Don’t get me wrong - I’m no supporter of the oppression of women, regardless how they try to disguise it, but he should have went at this blatantly sexist atrocity from a national security perspective.
Side Note- If the vision of a woman present such a Temptation to men- isn’t that something the men should be held responsible for-Shouldn’t they wear Blinders? Or perhaps they should always keep their eyes lowered so to avoid eye contact with women. sounds like a personal problem,Boys. Are these men admitting they are Weak, then perhaps they should not be allowed to make major decisions at home,or in Gov’t.

Damask Rose asked “Remember all those exotic headdresses that French orders of nuns used to wear?”

I remember seeing them in movies (The Flying Nun?) and thinking, they look like those collars they put on animals to keep them from biting themselves - how appropriate.

I do hope researchers soon find the “INSANE GENE” that afflicts so many humans. Collectively, we act like ignorant, terrified, inefficient, incompetent, immature-for-sure, ego maniacs, so full of our own importance in the Universe that we had the insufferable arrogance to INVENT GODS IN OUR IMAGE (many, many, many Gods because we couldn’t even agree on how to do that).

Damn I hope the next “life” has more to offer than sandbox-level cultures.

Can we ban prostitution, child sex trade, pornography and organ harvesting along with this? I’m sick of hearing sob stories about rape, broken marriages and missing body parts.

The Muslim women in France need to realize that now that they’re living in civilized, Western society, they need to get with it and conform to the Western, civilized idea of freedom. Assuming these foreigners hail from the less practical “Islamically ruled” countries like Saudi Arabia, they’re about due to realize that the freedom to walk around without a male escort and drive cars comes with the price of banishing away childish, unreasonable and inconvenient things like clothes.

By the way, do nuns qualify under SARSEkosy’s big idear? Because I have to say, they make me EXTREMELY uncomfortable all covered up in uniform and wearing crosses and s**t.

Wildflower, the Koran does speak about modesty, just as our Bible speaks of humility. These are beautiful qualities wherever encountered.

The problem with the burka is that it is antisocial and undermines mutual trust. It is unverifiable as to whether a woman choses to cover herself or whether she has been compelled (coerced) to “cover herself”. I am against giving any group the power to enforce normative behavior, like compulsory church attendance, wearing a flag lapel-pin or standing for the national anthem.

These small items are ultimately unimportant. What is more important is that the burka flaunts public accountability.

Besides the negative impact these garments have on visual trust, I do not understand the public act of submission, a behavior I would not encourage among my daughters.

Women will often, out of love, affection, a sense of duty or a desire to please, accomodate a mate’s wish for a particular behavior, style of dress or cut of hair. This is a personal, intimate matter, not a matter for public scrutiny.

While I respect that choice, and women may dress any way they like, I do not agree such behavior is permissible when it comes to “public acts” such as voting, swearing allegiance, testifying in court, transacting bank business, shopping, paying by credit card, picking up a child after school… The list is very long.

Personal dress codes are an issue in France because French public culture is tolerant and cannot comprehend why a person’s lifestyle choice should be flaunted in public. This is true about homosexuality, social class and religious beliefs. 

In fact, one must conclude that such “proclaimed modesty” is not modesty afterall, but an unsolicited public declaration of one’s intimate values.

If the burka is worn to demonstrate modesty, why is the burka only worn by women?  Shouldn’t Islamic men be wearing them as well?

I still think French guys are just super-horny, that’s why all the fuss about “burkas”, wink wink.

They should do like orthodox Jewish women: they’re supposed to cover their hair, so they buy wigs to put over their hair, enabling them to pretend they haven’t covered their hair (except the wigs are usually really ugly and obvious).

So why not paint a fake face on the Burka, and stick a wig on it, so you can sort of pretend you’re not wearing a Burka?

Omop, they also think Woody Allen is hilarious.

Can you imagine? 

Notwithstanding the fact that I’ve seen many women who should be FORCED to wear a burka in public, my objection is not to avoid such visual abuse.

More than 70% of our human communcation is visual - the eyes - body language - what and how we wear our covering. In the “West” - covering the face triggers and alarm - WHAT IS HIDING BEHIND THE MASK? And WHY?

In this day and age of a “terrorist” hiding behind every bush, wandering about in public hiding behind a mask - for any reason - is about as sensible as swimming in a pool of piranha or sharks with gobs of meat dangling from your belt. Wearing a burka draws as much attention as wearing nothing… and we all know what kind of a fuss that would cause.

There is no way to ensure who or what is under a burka. Could easily be a MAN carrying a machine gun or with a bomb tied around his/her body. We cannot have this potential threat in public.

Sorry, Muslim women. Wear the burka in your Mosque, in your home, in your garden… but not in public where your identity is REQUIRED for the safety of us all.

Double speak a la Francaise. Nikky pontificates on France’s long-standing secular democracy by “Ordering” Muslim women wearing “Burqas” that they are no longer welcome in France.

But then what can one expect from a people that consider Jerry Lewis, “the best comedian in the world”, and claim that they stand for “liberty, fraternity, equality’.

Vive la difference!.

Costumes make a statement, one only need look at the Pope or the KKK, they all seem to be saying something?

Milton:
You contradict yourself (“When in Rome…”).  Yes, they are in “Rome” and should dress accordingly. 

All of the bleeding hearts may think differently when one of these folks in beekeeper suits walks into a crowded square with explosives attached to their coward bodies.  Emulate or get the F^%k OUT.  Some of you guys make me sick.

Furthermore, lets take it a step further and abolish all religions and we may be on the path to true peace.

Thank-you Hippie4ever. Unfortunately though, the issue has been politicized and the burka is now sometimes worn as a political statement by women who wish to “affirm” their private identities but “display their public modesty”.

Modesty is one thing and a matter of personal choice. If a shawl or scarf expresses personal modesty, a burka, whatever the wearer’s logic, is an afront to public trust and decency.

Burkas are destrucitve, antisocial and coercive. They have no place in a free and tolerant society that considers it immodest to pry into one’s personal affairs.

Yes, it is a symbol of repression, but to claim he is “protecting democracy” through this form of censorship is absurd. People should be able to dress however they please.

France is a beautiful country, and is defined by its people who dress as individuals, with style and panache. There is an openness to French life where people listen to others and can debate without being nasty. You still see people reading books in cafes, parks, metros. WTF are these foreigners doing in France, carrying on like they’re in Saudi Arabia? Disgusting; when I lived there I tried my best to fit in. I dressed like the French, lived the way they lived, spoke French to the best of my ability. I was welcomed, and these fanatical muslims (and not all Muslims are—the majority in France dress in western attire.) are abusing a nation’s hospitality. They are merely taking advantage of a situation and are too stupid and unimaginative to consider another’s point of view.

While I prefer the socialists, good for Sarkozy and UMP for taking on these extremist muslim bores.

Does this mean that the Afghans can now put out a sign that states, “No French bikinis allowed” but “please NATO/US continue bombing our men, women and children”.