24 millian Russians and 8 million Germans can be included too.

You better learn to spell and better learn to read a little history.  Zionism is the political aspiration of a people.  Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine, and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.

You are full of hate. Like your title states. False aspersions thrust upon a people exist in your mind do not equate to reality.

Ken:

“There were also Black’s killed in Hitler’s Holocaust.”

Actually, ~11 million people were murdered under Hitler.  In addition to 6 million Jews, he murdered (or had murdered) ~2 million Christians, plus another ~3 million blacks, gays, communists, trade unionists, the elderly, and the physically and emotionally chaallenged.

He was truly an equal opportunity murderer.

Peace.

Howard what you view as media bias favouring the Palestinians in this dispute is really just more balanced coming from alternative sources.The more influencial mainstream media stymie almost all criticism of Israel.

Lefty I always enjoy your comments here at truthdig.Nobody should take anything you say seriously but you sure do provide a good laugh.

You might like to peruse the book,"1491" to get a look at preColumbus Native populations. Those numbers might be too small you quoted as the ongoing day to day research is revealing much more about the advanced civilizations existing prior to European contact and as to why? Your public Library should have a copy.

Probably because no one criticizes those who are trying to destroy Israel. In the past week, Palestinians fired over 60 Kassam rockets and approximately 50 mortar shells at Israeli communities. IDF forces have to continually operate in Gaza to distance terrorists from the security fence and to target rocket and mortar launching cells and armed gunmen.

No country should have to put up with this nonsense of not protecting its citizens from rockets.  mortars every day.

Hamas rules with an iron hand in Gaza. No reason they cannot stop these attacks. Their goal is to try to hit a kindergarten class and get a response from Israel that they and the media can criticize.

Been like that for 60 years.

Well, well, well. You finally admit it.  You hate Israel.  Which is the only true democracy in the area.

Of course, she’s got such western liberal neighbors like...Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Libya, Iran...even the “moderate” ones are total dictatorships, like Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, the Palestinian Authority.

Lebanon, the only Arab nation that WANTS to be a democracy is totally undermined by Syria and Hezbollah.

Now, just what is about all those nations that’s so superior to Israel?  Take Kuwait: After we liberated it and the Al Sabah family came back in, they rounded up all the resistance who bravely stayed behind and fought Saddam...and killed them all!  Why? Because they feared Kuwaitis would say “What the F--- do we need these cowardly thugs for when we have these brave leaders?”

Every one of those “paradises” you prefer has a history to make even Israel’s WORST mistakes and excesses seem like a flea bite.

Maybe you should move to that modern Eden, Sudan. Take in the very heart of their warm, human and humane policies in Darfur, brought by the noble Janjaweed, who have made murdering innocents and rape into an art form.

Because that’s what you are saying is better, Non-Credible--the genocide, TRUE GENOCIDE in Darfur is preferable.

I’m sure it won’t keep you up nights.

Non Credo why is it that Lefty and Inherit The Wind get so angry when someone should dare be critical of Israel,what are they so afraid of?

Lefty:

The population of english-speaking people (i.e., former Europeans, etc.) in the U.S. did not even reach 10 million until 1820, so it could not possibly have been 50 million in 1492.  Estimates of the Native American population in 1492 are ~30-60 million, of which we wiped out 80% before the Industrial Revolution.

CY:

Re my comment, “And while I am not in any way negating the horror of the death of 6 million Jews in a systematic and conscious attempt to eliminate them from the earth, it would seem to me that the murder of an estimated 50 million Native Americans makes the Holocaust pale in comparison.”

You ask, “Do you think, before you write? Your quote (above) says “while I’m not negating...” Then you negate.  NOTHING “makes the Holocaust pale” There is no “comparison” when speaking about the deaths of people.

No, I did NOT “negate.” The word “pale” is not a “negation”; it is a word of comparison.  And while it is obviously true that EVERY life is valuable, to suggest that one cannot “compare” figures like 50 million and 6 million is semantically mangling the english language.

Peace.

“I’m all cried out and have been for a long time about the sufferings of the Jews.”

The only tears you shed were from slicing a fresh onion!

Cut the crap, Non-Credible.  You hate Jews, you hate Israel and you want to see ANOTHER Arab/Moslem dictatorship in place of the only working democracy in the Middle East--Israel.

You also want to see the Lebanese infant democracy converted to a pure Syrian satrap.

Know anybody with the tattooed number from the camps? I do. Some are still alive.

Maybe there NEEDS to be more books, movies and TV specials on similar atrocities too--The Killing Fields was one of the most powerful movies I ever saw--about Cambodia.  Sadly, nothing is better proof we are all one species than our willingness and tendency to practice genocide.

Lib:

Thanks.  Actually, before we get to the Iraqis, we have yet ANOTHER U.S.-based “holocaust” of sorts to consider: the death of between 50 million and 80 million blacks during the slave trade.  True, the U.S. was not solely complicit here.  But we were, for the longest time, the primary “market” for slaves.  And all of those who died on their way (in ships in which they were packed even CLOSER than sardines) and here are, again, FAR more than the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust (and, again, I am not in any way lessening the atrocities of the Nazis).

Thus, the U.S. was complicit in the two LARGEST mass “genocides” (or near-genocides) in history.

Peace.

Good post !  Add to that the murder of Iraqi’s and what is going on in Africa.  So much for civil civilization.

It is interesting that only one person on this whole thread of (at this moment) 88 comments noted that, long before Hitler and the “final solution,” WE carried out a MUCH larger genocide re the Native Americans.  And while I am not in any way negating the horror of the death of 6 million Jews in a systematic and conscious attempt to eliminate them from the earth, it would seem to me that the murder of an estimated 50 million Native Americans makes the Holocaust pale in comparison.

Recently, the new prime minister of Australia made a long-awaited - and extremely honest, humble and heartfelt - apology to the aborigines for all the atrocities and harm done toward them, and seeking to help reverse some of those wrongs and help them in any way possible.

Would that our president would do the same re the Native Americans!  In fact, I would be WAY impressed if either Clinton or Obama promised to do so if they become president.

Peace.

“Now you know why people want to move on.  I think it is time for you to move on also.”

All you are really saying is that it’s time for you to move on.

In your warped world view, the suffering of Cambodians under Pol Pot and the suffering of Jews in Europe and at the hands of Arabs are mutually exclusive. You frame attention to these situations as “either/or”. How sad for you that you have become so detached from such hugely moving and historically compelling human events that your attitude has become entirely inhumane.

Didn’t Elvis Presley have a song that went “You aint’ nuthin’ but a hound dog...... crappin’ all the time...”?!?!

I don’t think the elite bankers have any particular religion, but I do think they favor a paganistic spirituality that requires human sacrifice in some way. War, starvation and pestilence are favored methods. If you want to get a taste of elite spiritual practice I suggest you look up Bohemian Grove. As to Jews, a select number have talents in management and gamesmanship, which always make them in demand to the elites. Unfortunately the more lowly Jew gets punished for the schemes of his rarified and recondite brothers, who by no means represent Jewry.

“....he or she should spew elsewhere or Truthdig use some judgement....”

TruthCrapDig use judgement? It/They do. What you read is by intent.

TruthCrapDig articles, especially those by Chris Hedges, aren’t much different than the bigoted filth David Duke and like-minded haters put out every day. The sycophantic chorus of idiotic commenters (Cyrena, Chalmers, Non Credible, PatrickHenry first and foremost among them) gather and excrete here daily precisely because of the garbage Scheer and Hedges upload.

Chalmers couldn’t get to the CVS for the refill in time - LMFAO

“it’s so nice when a knowledgeable person posts reality.”

And how would you ever know?

Well, Truthdig nixed my latest thread piece about Obama not being a peace candidate, in an Obama/Clinton thread. But, here, they print the stream of consciousness drivel of our new blogger ‘W’, whose contribution to the discussion omitted or was unaware of Adoph Hitler being born a Roman Catholic. Too busy misspelling words and spewing hate to look it up on Wikipedia or remember something taught in any college Western Civilization class. (This doesn’t mean that Roman Catholics are Hitlers, but if W was serious, and his or her blog wasn’t funny, he or she should spew elsewhere or Truthdig use some judgement).
Most of the other blogs get back to the old anti-religion deal. Opiate of the masses, all differing versions of the same shell game, etc. Bottom line: religion is like sexual preference. It really isn’t everyone else’s business, but as long as it doesn’t harm anyone, what is wrong with it-regardless of the type? Just keep it out of the government, don’t try to force your preference on others and I say leave it be. My professional experience treating people who have been involved in the other opiates has mellowed my approach to non-extreme secular religion.

Please don’t call me an anti-Semite; I am an equal opportunity bigot!  Yes, as the Old Testament is a compilation of Jewish fairytales, the New Testament relates Christian fairy tales though we prefer to call them myths----the Jews have better stories.  However, the Christians outdid the Jews when it came to telling whoppers----it’s hard to beat the resurrection and divination myths.  But what genius it was to devise such a concept especially in a world where religion was basically either pagan or Hebrew.  Since Hebrew did not proselytize so it was virtually closed to outsiders.

Though it did take 300 years for Christianity to take hold, it was fairly rapid for that time.  Constantine, for political reasons accepted Christianity though for him it was akin to Roman and Greek myth where the son usurps power from the father, i.e. Jupiter vs. Saturn, Zeus vs. Kronos.  But Christianity had one more attribute that perhaps accelerated its expansion and that was the inclusion of a female near-deity namely, Mary.  The mother of a deity certainly has perks!  Though the Greeks and Romans had female goddesses they were subservient to the male gods.  As for the Hebrews, women were subordinate to men in religion so along comes a new religion where a near-deity woman, subordinate to no one, is now part of the god cluster.  This appealed to woman of that time who persuaded their husbands that maybe Christianity deserved a second look----and the rest is history.  Though I like the quote from Pope Leo X, who in the 1500’s said, “It has served us well, this myth of Christ.”

I shouldn’t leave out Islam, which like Christianity had its roots in Judaism.  Islam’s rise as a major religion is remarkable, but since the Jews, at each juncture, opposed each of the new religions they became serious enemies.  However, Christians and Muslim both proselytize and by virtue of that they debase other religions, which is quite evident today since they both believe that the only way to salvation is to accept their beliefs or else you are doomed for eternity----now that ain’t very friendly is it?!

They are all fairy tales, these religions.

Just think of Jesus as the Sun. You see in August we have the constellation Virgo prominent in the sky. The symbol for Virgo is a strange looking ‘M’. A number of Mary’s gave birth to holy men, and gods. From Horus to Krishna, we have mothers with some meme involvin the letter ‘M’ and some combination of vowels and such. There are also the 12 apostles or brothers or disciples in all these myths. The Virgo constellation is also known as the house of bread. Bethelehem is the city that is known as the house of bread. Consider the 12 months of the year as well. Think of Jesus as the Sun rises and sets; remember the sun shall return again. On December 21st the Sun is at the lowest part of the sky in the southern hemisphere. The Southern Cross constellation is in the path of the Sun. In three days the Sun shall rise again from the Southern Cross. On the 25th day of December He(Son or Sun?) has fully risen, and ascended from the cross. Sirius is the morning star that preceds the the Sun. Before Sirius are three other stars, who are the Wise men who come to see the birth of the Son, El Sol. As it says in the Bible the it is only through the Sun that you can know the Father, which makes sense because the Sun is the source of life for every one. Anyway the whole New Testament seems to be on long strange joke based upon atrology and astronomy, which is the basis for Popes and priests, and all manner of bondage and subjugations to a very large institution, the Catholic Church. And to think, one does not really need a church for God the Father has already built his domed wonder of the sky
for humans to look upon in awe and wonder. Once you get the joke, you can save a lot of money on concrete, mortar and bricks. Please look up Zeitgeist on Google video.

Howard---you’re SURPRISED????

This is the guy who wrote:

Hey Karim…

Shame on you!  You know very well that the word “Holocaust” is assigned and solely belongs to people of the Jewish persuasion.  Even the Palestinians know this and they call their struggle, “The Catastrophe.”

Genius that he is, he doesn’t realize that “Holocaust” is the name assigned by the outside world.  To Jews, it’s called the “Shoah”. “Holocaust” is, to Jews, a more generic word.

But, Blackbeard the Pirate is another of the anti-semitic neo-nazis infesting Truthdig.  Somehow, none of the Arab and Palestinian atrocities against the Jews count for everything, but a crushed terrorist’s house is “the greatest atrocity in the history of the world.”

It’s all a big propaganda lie by moslem fundies playing the ultra-Left for total suckers.

Quite a lot of nonsense you put forth there.  If you say the Old Testament is Jewish fairy tales, why that means you feel the ‘New Testament’ is Christian fairy tales.

Yes the Jewish people gave the Bible to the world, along with their being the first group to offer monotheism or the belief in an invisible god; which was quite a new paradigm change instead of a belief in Zeus, Neptune, Aphrodite,etc

And yet not a word in your diatribe about the Germans and their Nazi leaders.  Just continue on blaming the victims that the article is written about. Did you read the article?  Talk then perhaps about the disliked German people would be more appropriate.

This article brings up the question of why Jews, of all people, are perhaps the most despised of groups throughout history.  The answer(s) is interesting, as it is complex. Some of the hatred is well earned and some is happenstance.

It all began in the early days of civilization where the Hebrews were, as were all people at that time, tribal.  The Hebrews became a feared and ruthless nomadic warrior tribe.  Their lore turned to legend and then into a religion resulting in the compilation known as the “Old Testament” or as Bill Maher would say, “ A Book of Jewish Fairytales”, but which did spawn several successful films!  Of course the lore was justification for their being as well as their role as the “Chosen People.”

Their warrior like demeanor and victories made them no friends in the ancient world as battles ensued with wins and losses all around.  All cultures have their ups and downs and eventually the Greeks then the Romans took over culminating in the dispersion of the Jews (by this time a fairly large population) throughout the eastern and western cultures.  The Jews survived in their own enclaves choosing not to integrate with the main society at large and of course religion played a large part in those days.

The advent of the Christian era marked a turning point in Jewish history----no need to be a rocket scientist here!  The ascendancy of the Christ to divine status was followed by a decline in the overall status of Jews in the early and Middle Ages and further alienated the Jews.  The Jews were the favorite whipping boy of the early Christian church and their fate ebbed and flowed with the events of those days.

As the church amassed political power the vehemence against the Jews became institutionalized and reached a crescendo during the Crusades.  But the Jews survived by hiding and migrating further into northern Europe and further into the Islamic world all the while resisting assimilation into the general societies in which they resided.

The expulsion of the Jews from Spain and Portugal in the late 1400’s further forced their migration northward with a large population entering into what would be Germany and Russia where their next milestone was to be decided.

In the 1500’s Martin Luther was looking to break away from the Roman Church and create his own form of Christianity.  To do this he enlisted the help of influential and wealthy Jews who were only too happy to help someone oppose the HRCC.  Martin Luther misinterpreted this help as a sign the Jews accepted his views and would join his church and thus he would become the “Savior” of the Jews so to speak.  When he made his pronouncement and formally renounced the HRCC he went to his Jewish backers and asked them to join him----they of course refused explaining their allegiance is to their religion.  Martin Luther was pissed and became one of the most outspoken critics against the Jews, which continued into present times culminating the Nazi’s “Final Solution.” The hatred spread into Byzantine Russia.  However, it should be noted that in the 1800’s the Germany authorities did try to assimilate the Jews into the overall society and it did work to a great extent, but not enough to overcome the inherent hatred!

After WW II a combination of sorrow for the Jews as well as a desire to solve the “Jewish Problem” resulted the partition of Palestine into a Jewish area where a majority of Jews would migrate and make the rest of the world happy-----yeah right!

Since the ancient ages, Jews have somehow succeeded into arousing the scorn of the general population albeit a relatively small percentage, but enough to make trouble in certain regions.  Of course, the struggle between Israelis and Palestinians brings us full circle back to the days of old-----amazing how history repeats itself----this time instead of spears and chariots we have machine guns and tanks and the potential for some serious war-making events!

Well, that’s not exactly what I said, Wind old pal. The question is not whether I would be sensitive to the issue if “my people” had been the ones wiped out.  Of course I would.  The question is whether I would support or be part of a culture that is constantly picking at the scab and displaying its wound to others with the express and obvious intent of keeping alive a narrative in which it is owed something—and in which “my people” are allowed to visit whatever horrors it wishes on the land it occupies because of wrongs done to the “my people” by another population thousands of miles away.
The Cambodians don’t obsess about the Khmer Rouge because its depredations have been acknowledged by the rest of the world; in a sense, they HAVE gotten over it.  Turkish Armenians have been denied that kind of acknowledgment, so the past still sticks in their craw.  Except for a few nutcases, the world has recognized the suffering and extermination of the Jews in Europe during WWII; the world has apologized, sympathized and done what it could to provide reparation.  So yeah, it’s time to move on.  And it’s time to stop using what happened as an excuse to brutalize the Palestinians.

I certainly was not proposing that the Big H be expunged from history books.  Of course, there are lessons to be learned, as there are from tragedies and horrors throughout history.

Does anybody care what happened to the Armenians in Turkey in 1916?

JimBob

What excellent observations. Clearly I agree.

I would add that there appears to be some irony in the stated purpose of keeping the holocaust alive in the universal mind. If in fact it is to assure that “it never happens again’ (Holocausts in general that is) then it damn sure isn’t working to that end.

These Holocausts just keep going, and keep going, and keep going. Too bad it can’t be converted to usable energy.

Now of course it was means that it should never again happen to Jews, then obviously it’s been more successful. (the sky writing, and the books, and the poems, and the movies, and on and on).

Maybe I should add that SOME of this knowledge and information on the European Holocaust IS helpful as instructive history, if we look at it as a Holocaust that developed as a result of a totalitarian movement, based on a specific ideology. (In this case both Nazism and communism, and again in this case, mostly Jews were the victims).

But, the overkill on this particular Holocaust as a tragedy that belongs solely to the Jews has not prevented the same atrocities from continuing. Only the victims have changed.

So...the Armenians should get over the 1915 genocide by the Turks?  After all, that’s over 90 years ago.
The Cambodians should get over the Khmer Rouge slaughter of two million--that was over 30 years ago.
Blacks should get over the injustices of slavery--that was over 140 years ago...and they should get over Jim-Crow and segregation because that was over 40 years ago.
Maybe we should stop celebrating the 4th of July when we declared independence from British tyranny.  After all, that’s 230 years ago.  We should get over it by now!

Half of all the Jews in the world were wiped out in 4-5 years.  The ENTIRE Jewish culture of Europe was completely destroyed.  Many people still walking around today were there, were victims.  A congressman just died this week who was there and lost his family. 

But Jews should get over it...I’ll bet it’d be damned different if it was YOUR ox that was gored.

As I pointed out below, this propagandist claims 13.5 million people were murdered from a nation of 3.4 million…

Now he claims Elie Weisel ignored the Holocaust...when there is photographic evidence of Weisel as a starved near-dead teenager in a Nazi death camp.  Weisel was there.  Karim, of course, was not.

There is no lie and no level that the Jew-haters won’t sink to.  They are building up a reservoir of excuses to start murdering Jews wholesale again--and Karim is one of those merchants of death, by spreading lies of Jewish injustices, as “evidence” to justify the next pogroms.

Yeah, and somewhere there are people who maintain the Earth is flat.  No one cares because everyone knows they’re wrong.  But the Jews go NUTS when someone denies the Big H happened because it threatens their Pity Me narrative.

Another neo-nazi spews spurious numbers.  According to him 18.5 million Poles died in the WWII.  That’s more than half the population, if not 2/3 at that time.  It’s pure bullshit. It is a lie.

Latvia supposedly lost 10.5 millions according to this liar.  Amazing, considering Latvia only has 2.3 million people.

Lithuania lost 13.5 million people--from a nation of 3.4 million.

Yugoslavia supposedly lost 7 million, out of a population of 20 million.

What this liar is doing is trying to say that the murder in the Holocaust of 6 million Jews is trivial compared to the suffering of others.

I mean, what can compare to a nation of 3.4 million people losing 13.5 millions?  Only Bush’s accounting uses arithmetic that blatantly cooked.

Sure Jim.  There is much truth in what you say.  But, part of the reason why discussion of the holocaust is kept active is because there are many who deny its occurrence for reasons which are indefensible. It would be much better if all genocidal incidents were taught alongside each other without singling out the holocaust for special attention.

I have nothing against Jews.  I live among them, I interact with them and they are just people.  Their religion is pretty mellow, though those who take it to extremes are like anyone else who takes religion to extremes: coo-coo.  What I don’t like is the business of keeping the holocaust alive in everyone’s mind.  Endless books, movies, poems, radio and TV shows, skywriting, you name it.  God forbid the world should forget what happened 60-odd years ago under very specific circumstances that show no signs of reoccurring.  Get over it, people!  It’s like this never-ending pity party.  Boring.  Zionists use it as an excuse to mistreat the people who lived in Israel before they took it over, so there it’s actually harmful.  But for the most part it Just Gets Old.

Agreed.

I suppose the reasoning used by so many that somehow this is all prophecy may be what I meant. Not sure. I think a population that fights over the need to have government religiously guided, or fights over whether or not a candidate is too Christian or not Christian enough should stand to an accounting about the value of right and wrong irrespective of religious beliefs.

Same holds for any religious group. “It is prophecy” whether originating from Islam, Judaism, or Christianity is just one more manifestation of blind acceptance of blatant evil. I think.

Anyhow, thanks.

A beautifully written and accurate synopsis Louise.  But I do find myslef puzzled by your last sentence.

“For a world that claims to believe in a higher being, there is no excuse.”

The truth is that there is no excuse irrespective of whether we believe or don’t believe in a higher being. And all too often it is the very fact of conflicting beliefs which causes the problems you so lucidly describe. Surely you cannot pretend that the treatment of Palestinians has nothing to do with a religious gulf between Jews and Muslims.

As you rightly point out “bigotry and prejudice” abound and this does facilitate hate. But unless and until we grow beyond baseless divisive beliefs there is little hope that we will get anywhere.

I wont bore you with my memories of WWII. I’ve ranted on that subject before.

But I feel a need to mention something that comes to mind, whenever I read anything documenting the persecution of so many people, by so many societies in that era.

When finally it appeared to be over, and more and more Jews migrated to what we now call the Nation state of Israel, there was a general, collective sigh of relief across America and Europe. Finally there would be a solution to the “Jewish” problem.

Yes it was a national sigh of relief. From the Pulpit, across kitchen tables, in Corporate Board rooms and at the highest levels of Government, people spoke of the “Jewish” problem. And people embraced the notion that putting them out of sight, therefore out of mind would solve the “problem.”

This needs to be pointed out, because the persecution and extermination of so many people across Europe, in Russia and Germany was a known fact throughout the civilized world. A civilized world that was oh so slow to respond, let alone acknowledge. Because that civilized world was of a similar mind-set. This “Jewish” problem was a problem that needed to be solved.

Fast forward to the present. The hand-full of people with an all to similar mind-set that controls the population of Israel, that feeds the one-sided empathy that radiates from so many “Christian” organizations. Only this time it isn’t the “Jewish” problem. This time it’s the “Palestinian” problem. And we still as a majority prefer to know, but not know. See, but not see. And choose not to respond.

There is no excuse for looking the other way while millions were murdered in Europe and Russia. Likewise there is no excuse for looking the other way while a whole society is systematically persecuted today. In other words, there is no excuse for the indifference that allows evil to control. Ever!

As long as there is greed and indifference, there will be evil men who take advantage and gain control. As long as there is a general acceptance that those in control know what’s best, there will be evil men who take advantage to satisfy their greed. A vicious circle that knows no end.

One would think that seeing the horrors that occurred before, during and after WWII, horrors that made population extermination somehow justified, we would all know better. And here we are. Not one scintilla smarter than we were back then. Why is that?

Because we lack the courage to see our own part in runaway greed and control and power and violence. And evil. We are just as cowardly today as we were when we chose to look the other way then. Then breath a collective sigh of relief when someone else came with the solution to the “Jewish” problem.

And what we avoid. What we carefully avoid, is asking ourselves why we were of a mind-set, three quarters of a century ago, that never tried to discover why we accepted that there was a Jewish problem in the first place! Why we were so willing to guide our thought process through the maze of bigotry and prejudice, that always leads to hate. And still do. The names and places may change. The problems may take on a slightly different rational, but the underlying reality ... prejudice and bigotry that leads to hate ... never changes.

For a world that claims to believe in a higher being, there is no excuse.

And many of them still are.  Antisemitism is the national sport in a good many European countries.

^ just ignorant and deluded with beliefs mistaken for facts.

^ it’s so nice when a knowledgeable person posts reality.

^ and the stuff I’m on is life; glorious life with my wonderful wife.  Thanks for your concern.

To Howard: Don’t ever get the mistaken idea that any thread about the Jewish holocaust in Germany and Eastern Europe in the 1930s and 1940s has anything to has anything to do with the German Nazis or a totalitarian, fascist, invading military state like the US in 2002-2008. On Truthdig, it is all about the flawed policies of the Israeli state. It is about the Jew Enemy Plot to control the world banks, (not the US/OPEC complicity to hijack the world economy by quadrupling the price of crude oil). It is about how the Palestinians have gotten the shaft from the Isrealis decades later. Well, they have in many respects and I think the conditions that have existed for some Palestinians should have been dealt with much more sternly by the international community, (despite the fact that the Palestinians have in turn slaugtered many innocents in the name of an endless war themselves). Just how in the HELL this, or the other bullshit trotted out on this board equates to the magnitude of the Jewish Holocaust in Germany in the ‘30s and ‘40s never ceases to amaze me. But then, I also think that Bush and Cheney are the problem in America, and on this board, many of the posters don’t really have a problem with these madmen, because the problem is the ‘Zionists’.

We should not forget John Foster Dulles or the folks at the International Bank of Settlements either. Also we should consider Watson at IBM, and the good people at GM and Ford who made the Third Reich the great power that it was. Oh yeah, we should thank Harriman and Bush in their efforts as well in making WWII such a smash up.

And I would like to thank the British and American eugnics movement for providing the Germans with the moral justification for population control. 

And also the Carnegie Foundation deserves much thanks for creating the impetus for wars so that we don’t want anymore.

Also I would like to recognize the British efforts at popualtion reduction with the mass starvation of the Bengali people of India in ‘44.

By Expat, February 16: “????????????????????????...!”

Be careful that you are aware of the difference betwen what is Zen and what is merely “mango madness”. The tropics, and the wet seasons in particular, do have a strange effect on many from a cooler climate, especially white men.

Hey Karim…

You posted, “How about the 60-years of continued Holocaust in Palestine...”

Shame on you!  You know very well that the word “Holocaust” is assigned and solely belongs to people of the Jewish persuasion.  Even the Palestinians know this and they call their struggle, “The Catastrophe.”

Interesting, but i would have to take exception to the statement that the Russian people knew almost nothing of the Wehrmacht.  Last time i visited the city formally known as Stalingrad, it was pretty deep into Russian territory.  The Germans stood for quite some time at nearly the gates of Moscow, where the citizens were actually defending the city.

And while the author makes a small mention of the siege of Lenningrad, he does so in a way that glosses over one of the most inhumane acts of modern history.  Of course, no one knows how many residents of the city died during the siege because Stalin refused to generate anything approaching an accurate count.  But most historians settle on at least a million, with some estimates climbing as high as 1.5 million.

Standing among the mass graves, marked only by year, in Piskaryovskoye Cemetery, one can get the feel of the tragedy.  The graves are roughly 20 feet wide by a hundred feet long, and they’re mounded about 4 feet tall.  There are 186 of them.  Originally, the bodies were stacked like cordwood...no one having the energy to dig graves in the frozen earth until after the war.

One of the world’s great cities lived for three years with no heat, no water, no electricity, and no food.  The German lines were a pleasant afternoon trip away in the near suburbs.  And contrary to what Wikipedia says, the Germans never intended to destroy the city.  Indeed, with over 250,000 bombs dropped, almost none of them fell on any major landmark.  Hitler wanted the city where Lenin launched his revolution left wholly intact, it was where the victory party (invitations for the Hotel Astoria were already printed) would be held.  His goal was to starve the city free of its people.

At least during the 90’s it was still possible to find people who spent their childhood in this situation.  One of the floor ladies in my dorm did so.  She was old and jolly, but once she told a few of us about those years...so long ago...and it reduced her to a state that there are no words for.

Many of the shell pocks remain.  Signs warning that one side of Nevsky Prospect is more dangerous during times of shelling still hang.  And on memorial days, the city is bedecked in flowers.  But on any day of the year, one can visit Piskaryovskoye and find at least one old person.  They move slowly, accompanied by the melancholy strains of classical music that wafts, perpetually, from the trees, carrying enough flowers to lay a single stem on each headstone that may contain their mother or sibling or spouse.

The residents of Leningrad knew the Germans quite well...Communist, Jew, and children alike.

What a long-winded bunch of lies ! Nothing about the Germans. Nothing about the Nazis. Nothing about the consequencs of their murderous actions with their depraved leaders. Nothing about how they adored Hitler and were dovoted to him and his henchman. That such a cultered educated country could do this might be something to be mentioned. Doesn’t portend well for humankind if episodes like the Nazi era are repeatd.

No, Karim has to spend 4 pages filled with falsehoods and accusations that are baseless diatribes against the victims.  Blame them.  Accuse the victims of a wold plot. On and on. It’s called cow manure.

Imagine.

The Holocaust Industrial Complex ………….Part 4 of 4
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The Holocaust is all bout the intentionally inflicted pain and misery.
If this is the case, then