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Timothy Snyder on the Forgotten Holocaust

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Posted on Feb 15, 2008
book cover

By Timothy Snyder

“I felt a strong desire to sprinkle my head, my whole self, with ashes, to be nothing, to be changed into dust.”
—Ida Belozovskaya, quoted in “The Unknown Black Book”


Though she survived the Holocaust, Ida Belozovskaya was not invoking the crematoriums of Auschwitz. In the Kiev of September 1941 that she was describing in one of the interviews published in “The Unknown Black Book,” the Germans were killing the Jews, but without the help of gas chambers. These had not yet been invented, but the Holocaust was under way. What she was trying to describe was the fear and shame of hiding in a city where 30,000 Jews could be shot in a single day, where her father had just been seized on the street. Her references jar the ones we have come to know, but her experience is just as representative, and important, as that of Jews who lived through Auschwitz. Half of the Jews who died in the Holocaust were killed by bullets rather than by gas, in death pits rather than in death camps. Some 2.2 million Soviet Jews were killed by shooting; 350,000 more were asphyxiated in mobile gas vans. Compare this to the 1.1 million deaths at Auschwitz, or the approximately 800,000 deaths at Treblinka. Even had the death camps never existed, this eastern Holocaust would have to be regarded as the most horrible of atrocities. Yet we have all but forgotten it.

 

book cover

 

The Unknown Black Book

 

Edited by Joshua Rubenstein and Ilya Altman

 

Indiana University Press, 446 pages

 

Buy the book

 

 

The east is where the killing began. The mass murder of Europe’s Jews began not in Germany or in German-occupied Poland, but on the eastern front, after the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. As the German army swept forward in 1941 and 1942, four Einsatzgruppen (“Task Forces”) followed them to the east, assigned to liquidate political enemies and Jews. At the end of August, the Germans killed some 23,000 Jews in the Ukrainian city of Kamenets-Podolsk. After that the total elimination of Jewish populations in Ukraine and Belarus became the norm. The murderous work of the Einsatzgruppen combined an ideological and a racial purpose. In the Nazi worldview, Jews were racial inferiors and enemies, doomed to disappear from Europe. Yet in this paradigm Jews were also communists, and thus, as Yitzhak Arad notes in his introduction to “The Unknown Black Book,” the murder of Soviet Jews was regarded as a method of defeating communism. Adolf Hitler’s men in Minsk made the connection clear, carrying out mass killings on the anniversary of the October Revolution, on Red Army Day and then on International Women’s Day.

It was also in the east that Jews resisted. After the Red Army withdrew from Soviet Belarus and Soviet Ukraine, Josef Stalin endorsed partisan warfare. Communist partisans in Belarus and Ukraine were more important to the outcome of the war than the more celebrated resistance movements in the west. In Belarus in particular, but also in Ukraine, partisans often sheltered Jews who were escaping the ghetto and sometimes armed them. According to one of the accounts collected in “The Unknown Black Book,” Jews in the Minsk ghetto dug a 200-meter-long tunnel that began under a bakery stove, and hundreds of Minsk Jews used it to join the partisans to fight the Germans. According to the editors, perhaps 30,000 of the 350,000 or so partisans in Soviet Belarus were Jews. Not surprisingly, they were after revenge.

Soviet Jewish writers such as Vasily Grossman and Ilya Ehrenburg learned of the atrocities in Soviet Belarus and Soviet Ukraine soon after they took place. For a time, it was their job to document Nazi atrocities against Jews and spread knowledge of Jewish suffering. In February 1942, Stalin formed the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, appointing Jewish intellectuals such as Grossman and Ehrenburg as international ambassadors of Soviet Jews. Their press campaigns and tours abroad were designed to raise money and improve the image of the Soviet Union. It was one of several such committees; Stalin did not mean to pay any special attention to the Jews. Yet because the Jews were in fact Hitler’s special target, members of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee were forced to confront the particular horror of the Final Solution. After the Red Army halted the Germans in western Russia in early 1943, these intellectuals followed Soviet troops to the west, recording the atrocities that had been perpetrated by the Einsatzgruppen over the previous two years. They collected letters and essays from people who had survived by digging their way, wounded, out of death pits.

The documents published in English translation in “The Unknown Black Book” are among those collected and edited by members of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, with the aim of publishing a catalog of German war crimes. During the war, committee members were in contact with American Jews, and the publication was to be a joint American-Soviet undertaking, with English and Russian editions. An English version did appear, but the publication of the Russian-language “Black Book” was suddenly halted in 1947. Then the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee was dissolved, and its members persecuted. Thirteen of them had been killed by 1952. The publication of the Russian-language “Black Book” had to await the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Russian edition of this second and equally valuable collection of documents, “The Unknown Black Book,” appeared at the same time, in 1993. The particular historical merit of these collections is that they assemble records collected in the months following the events they describe. The two books together provide one of the most important sources on the Holocaust, and the editors and Indiana University Press have performed an invaluable service by preparing an English-language edition of “The Unknown Black Book.”

Why was recording the Holocaust such a problem in the postwar Soviet Union? Stalin had led the peoples of the Soviet Union to victory, but not before allowing millions and millions of Soviet citizens to die at German hands. For the Soviet system to survive, the meaning of all of the suffering had to be the triumph of the united Soviet peoples over a terrible and relentless enemy. For this to work as propaganda, all citizens had to have suffered equally, and to have resisted the Germans with equal fervor. Yet, as the accounts collected in “The Unknown Black Book” recall, the Holocaust stands out even among the countless other German war crimes in the east, and the Germans could never have done their bloody work without local collaboration. The Einsatzgruppen numbered only about 3,000 men. To be sure, they were aided by German police and by the German army. But they needed local police forces to make and then to clear ghettos. The Soviet system punished collaborators, of course, but it could not tolerate the reality of systematic collaboration. No less than France or any other occupied country, the Soviet Union needed a myth of unified resistance. 


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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, February 28, 2008 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

24 millian Russians and 8 million Germans can be included too.

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By Howard, February 26, 2008 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

You better learn to spell and better learn to read a little history.  Zionism is the political aspiration of a people.  Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine, and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.

You are full of hate. Like your title states. False aspersions thrust upon a people exist in your mind do not equate to reality.

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By Truthreader3, February 26, 2008 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Truthdig,

Please sequence the messages in the order they are
being received. For example important messages from
Noaman dated 2/26 is burried among messages dated
2/24 and 2/25. I can see the count of the messages
is increasing without any new messages are being added in.
What is going on?.

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By Noaman. A, February 26, 2008 at 4:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you say a Democracy for Jews only, then i would accept that but a true democracy it need some clarification.Israeli Arabs are not allowed to settle anywhere in Israel aside from areas designated by Israeli authorities for Arabs, remember South African Apartheid??. Also,Arabs are not allowed to build nor expand their existing premises to accomodate newly born “babies”.We have discovered during the 2006 war with Lebanon that Israeli garrisons were based near Arab homes and with no protective shelters.Of course, Arabs and Jews are not allowed to merry, this I can understand ,but when it comes to jews of different origins or cults, then it sheds a lot of doubts on the type of Democracy you’r referring to..There is no colonial Democracy, its the of poltics applyed by the occupier on its subjects, that your Democacy..

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By Noaman. A, February 26, 2008 at 3:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jews had lived for centuries in peace with Arabs, it was only after the creation of Israel and the influx of foreigners from all over the world to Palestine that Jews began to be distiguished from their brothren. The story of how Belfore a British Zionist promised an Arab land, which he does not own, to the Zionists who don’t deserve,is a well known drama.And, from then onward Zionists began to collaborate with the colonial powers for the implementation of that promise.Remember the accompanying racial and degradetory Zionist propaganda campaign against the Arabs,the motto of that period was,“pay a dollar kill an Arab”.Now, what hate could be more damaging to humanity than putting a price on human life??.Or worse, the nonstop threats and insults that keep pouring from Rabies and creasy politician terrorists like liberman and his likes both in the Keneset and government.Probably you ae not aware of such activities in Israel??.Zionists are the curse of humanity,and certainly the world will be better off without this disease.

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By Conservative Yankee, February 25, 2008 at 6:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

....is 8 Million. 2 million listed as “others” your confusion might result from counting some categories twice A Jew or Christian, might also be gay, disabled, a trade unionist, communist or black.

“Equal opportunity” means 1 for 1. CLEARLY Hitler disliked Jews far out of proportion to these other groups.

You know Maani, Hitler wanted “peace” also…. under his terms!

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By Maani, February 24, 2008 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

Ken:

“There were also Black’s killed in Hitler’s Holocaust.”

Actually, ~11 million people were murdered under Hitler.  In addition to 6 million Jews, he murdered (or had murdered) ~2 million Christians, plus another ~3 million blacks, gays, communists, trade unionists, the elderly, and the physically and emotionally chaallenged.

He was truly an equal opportunity murderer.

Peace.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, February 24, 2008 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

Howard what you view as media bias favouring the Palestinians in this dispute is really just more balanced coming from alternative sources.The more influencial mainstream media stymie almost all criticism of Israel.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, February 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

Lefty I always enjoy your comments here at truthdig.Nobody should take anything you say seriously but you sure do provide a good laugh.

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By weather, February 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

have the courage to confront the truths about themselves and heal themselves w/out manipulating any blame onto others - they will know Peace.

This elegant and seasoned spiritual gesture is essential for us all.

As long as Israel would much rather be right than happy, they will know neither.

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By Gadees, February 24, 2008 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hamas defending itself by sending rockets to an illigale settlment occupied by a bunch of jewish terrorists,while Israel is killing on a daily baises,scores of children,women and young Palestinians.Lets just count the number of casulties on both sides to see who is realy the underdog.Israel is an occupier and should be repulsed by all means.We know that we are dealing with an entity which respect no law except that of its own and we are getting tierd of trying to convence the world of our just cause but to no avail.There is an intiutive feeling that tells of something coming which will change the current stalmate and will bring with it some assuranses for a better future.

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By jleman, February 24, 2008 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

You might like to peruse the book,“1491” to get a look at preColumbus Native populations. Those numbers might be too small you quoted as the ongoing day to day research is revealing much more about the advanced civilizations existing prior to European contact and as to why? Your public Library should have a copy.

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By weather, February 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is a self-inflicted wound.
No friends, just resentments, acrimony, distrust and hate. Good job, you must be proud - and just think you’ve no one to thank but yourselves,

No Howard, what you and Israel fear most is confronting the truth about yourselves. Humility eludes you, denial becomes you and trouble follows you.

If Israel wanted Peace, there would be Peace, but Peace is simply not profitable enough Israel -
now keep on lying to yourselves and to everyone else, its what you do best - indeed you’re in class by yourselves. Embrace the dysfunction.

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By Howard, February 24, 2008 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

Probably because no one criticizes those who are trying to destroy Israel. In the past week, Palestinians fired over 60 Kassam rockets and approximately 50 mortar shells at Israeli communities. IDF forces have to continually operate in Gaza to distance terrorists from the security fence and to target rocket and mortar launching cells and armed gunmen.

No country should have to put up with this nonsense of not protecting its citizens from rockets.  mortars every day.

Hamas rules with an iron hand in Gaza. No reason they cannot stop these attacks. Their goal is to try to hit a kindergarten class and get a response from Israel that they and the media can criticize.

Been like that for 60 years.

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By The Big Raven, February 24, 2008 at 10:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And lets not forget the biggist lies ever that has help the evil bastards do what they do…...........
MANIFESTED DESTINTY made up bullshit to allow people to steal off the resources period.

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By Conservative Yankee, February 24, 2008 at 7:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“No, I did NOT “negate.” The word “pale” is not a “negation”; it is a word of comparison.  And while it is obviously true that EVERY life is valuable, to suggest that one cannot “compare” figures like 50 million and 6 million is semantically mangling the english language.”

Websters lists “counteract” and “offset” as synonyms for “negate”

“pale” means soften, fade, or lose color.

Your intention to “counteract” is clear. The “offset” is implied.

One with a true bent toward pure language might question why one would bring a numerical figure (a questionable figure at that) into a discussion of Eastern European genocide,

As I pointed out above, it is akin to saying “Clearly, the death of my Grandmother outweighs the death of your grandmother.  The only words left out (intentionally?) are “to me”

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By Ken Mitchell, February 24, 2008 at 6:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There were also Black’s killed in Hitler’s Holocaust
http://www.black-history-month.co.uk/articles/holocaust_victims.html

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By Inherit The Wind, February 23, 2008 at 10:36 pm Link to this comment

Well, well, well. You finally admit it.  You hate Israel.  Which is the only true democracy in the area.

Of course, she’s got such western liberal neighbors like…Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Libya, Iran…even the “moderate” ones are total dictatorships, like Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, the Palestinian Authority.

Lebanon, the only Arab nation that WANTS to be a democracy is totally undermined by Syria and Hezbollah.

Now, just what is about all those nations that’s so superior to Israel?  Take Kuwait: After we liberated it and the Al Sabah family came back in, they rounded up all the resistance who bravely stayed behind and fought Saddam…and killed them all!  Why? Because they feared Kuwaitis would say “What the F—- do we need these cowardly thugs for when we have these brave leaders?”

Every one of those “paradises” you prefer has a history to make even Israel’s WORST mistakes and excesses seem like a flea bite.

Maybe you should move to that modern Eden, Sudan. Take in the very heart of their warm, human and humane policies in Darfur, brought by the noble Janjaweed, who have made murdering innocents and rape into an art form.

Because that’s what you are saying is better, Non-Credible—the genocide, TRUE GENOCIDE in Darfur is preferable.

I’m sure it won’t keep you up nights.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, February 23, 2008 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

Non Credo why is it that Lefty and Inherit The Wind get so angry when someone should dare be critical of Israel,what are they so afraid of?

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By Maani, February 23, 2008 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

Lefty:

The population of english-speaking people (i.e., former Europeans, etc.) in the U.S. did not even reach 10 million until 1820, so it could not possibly have been 50 million in 1492.  Estimates of the Native American population in 1492 are ~30-60 million, of which we wiped out 80% before the Industrial Revolution.

CY:

Re my comment, “And while I am not in any way negating the horror of the death of 6 million Jews in a systematic and conscious attempt to eliminate them from the earth, it would seem to me that the murder of an estimated 50 million Native Americans makes the Holocaust pale in comparison.”

You ask, “Do you think, before you write? Your quote (above) says “while I’m not negating…” Then you negate.  NOTHING “makes the Holocaust pale” There is no “comparison” when speaking about the deaths of people.

No, I did NOT “negate.”  The word “pale” is not a “negation”; it is a word of comparison.  And while it is obviously true that EVERY life is valuable, to suggest that one cannot “compare” figures like 50 million and 6 million is semantically mangling the english language.

Peace.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 23, 2008 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

“I’m all cried out and have been for a long time about the sufferings of the Jews.”

The only tears you shed were from slicing a fresh onion!

Cut the crap, Non-Credible.  You hate Jews, you hate Israel and you want to see ANOTHER Arab/Moslem dictatorship in place of the only working democracy in the Middle East—Israel.

You also want to see the Lebanese infant democracy converted to a pure Syrian satrap.

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By republicanSScareme, February 23, 2008 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The greatest victims of the Zionist “Never Again” anger have been the Jews themselves. Their non-stop preaching of hated of Goyim, Muslims, Blacks, Arabs, et al, has poisoned if not destroyed the traditional humanity of the Jewish people. You still see this decency in the average Jew, but their leadership…dominated by cut-throat Zionists…are totally treacherous. Many Jews know this but are afraid to challenge the all-powerful Zionists in fear of retaliation.

Pride is one thing. Saying you’re the Master Race is something else. Zionist literature has opened made this claim from 50 years before the holocaust.  Wouldn’t it be ironic if Hitler got the idea of a master race from the Zionists?  Quite possible.

The Zionist claim that Jews are hated simply because they’re Jewish is total bunk.  No one cares about their religious beliefs (even Zionists, or they wouldn’t do what they do).  It’s their own isolation and arrogance, hypocrisy and untrustworthiness, greed and other reasons that has repeatedly gotten them into trouble.  The Zionists refuse to admit this so have put out the propaganda that “We’re hated because we’re brilliant Jews. The goyin are mad because God likes us more than he does them.”

And that is the rational for a ruthless Jewish Mafia called “Zionism”.

The fact is, recent actions by the Zionists in planning and supporting criminal activities by our government have exposed the them to be as crooked and immoral as George Bush and Friends.

Deal with it.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 23, 2008 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

Know anybody with the tattooed number from the camps? I do. Some are still alive.

Maybe there NEEDS to be more books, movies and TV specials on similar atrocities too—The Killing Fields was one of the most powerful movies I ever saw—about Cambodia.  Sadly, nothing is better proof we are all one species than our willingness and tendency to practice genocide.

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By Maani, February 23, 2008 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

Lib:

Thanks.  Actually, before we get to the Iraqis, we have yet ANOTHER U.S.-based “holocaust” of sorts to consider: the death of between 50 million and 80 million blacks during the slave trade.  True, the U.S. was not solely complicit here.  But we were, for the longest time, the primary “market” for slaves.  And all of those who died on their way (in ships in which they were packed even CLOSER than sardines) and here are, again, FAR more than the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust (and, again, I am not in any way lessening the atrocities of the Nazis).

Thus, the U.S. was complicit in the two LARGEST mass “genocides” (or near-genocides) in history.

Peace.

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By Conservative Yankee, February 23, 2008 at 9:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“And while I am not in any way negating the horror of the death of 6 million Jews in a systematic and conscious attempt to eliminate them from the earth, it would seem to me that the murder of an estimated 50 million Native Americans makes the Holocaust pale in comparison.”

Do you think, before you write?

Your quote (above) says “while I’m not negating…”

Then you negate.

NOTHING “makes the Holocaust pale” There is no “comparison” when speaking about the deaths of people.

It’s a “vantage point” thing.

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By lib in texas, February 23, 2008 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

Good post !  Add to that the murder of Iraqi’s and what is going on in Africa.  So much for civil civilization.

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By Maani, February 23, 2008 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

It is interesting that only one person on this whole thread of (at this moment) 88 comments noted that, long before Hitler and the “final solution,” WE carried out a MUCH larger genocide re the Native Americans.  And while I am not in any way negating the horror of the death of 6 million Jews in a systematic and conscious attempt to eliminate them from the earth, it would seem to me that the murder of an estimated 50 million Native Americans makes the Holocaust pale in comparison.

Recently, the new prime minister of Australia made a long-awaited - and extremely honest, humble and heartfelt - apology to the aborigines for all the atrocities and harm done toward them, and seeking to help reverse some of those wrongs and help them in any way possible.

Would that our president would do the same re the Native Americans!  In fact, I would be WAY impressed if either Clinton or Obama promised to do so if they become president.

Peace.

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By lilmamzer, February 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm Link to this comment

“Now you know why people want to move on.  I think it is time for you to move on also.”

All you are really saying is that it’s time for you to move on.

In your warped world view, the suffering of Cambodians under Pol Pot and the suffering of Jews in Europe and at the hands of Arabs are mutually exclusive. You frame attention to these situations as “either/or”. How sad for you that you have become so detached from such hugely moving and historically compelling human events that your attitude has become entirely inhumane.

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By noaman, February 22, 2008 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh ,yes Jewish bankers have their religion, its the HOLOCAUST,where every pits and pieces are set to hegomonize the world.This religion has it prophets,bankers,arts,media,state and universal law to punish those who dare to question it authenticity.Just try to be accused of Anti-semitism in Europe??

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By Conservative Yankee, February 22, 2008 at 7:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I just love the way folks say “you should” do thus&so;The rant about the “extreme” position of “You people” has to do with the agenda of others.  THEY think folks should be engaged in what interests, apauls, or excites them…

Big ole NEWSFLASH… The world is not about you or your agenda.  Each person or group has their own….

My Grandmother said “Never again” when I was hardly old enough to talk…

Oh, and BTW this isn’t totally about Hitler, and the most recent holocaust this is about a four millennium effort on the part of others to eradicate an entire race of people. 

6 million Jews were executed for no reason other than that they were Jewish. it wasn’t an attempt to gain territory or because they were attempting to overthrow a government… simply because they were Jewish.

No other elimination of people even comes close to the numbers.

Go ahead, dig me up one ethnic group or religious sect that lost 6 million people in 8 years due to a government policy intended to eradicate them?

Move on? forget? Not while there’s breath in this body!!

Oh, and one final point, I had no idea I was this committed until you bigots stoked my fire!

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 22, 2008 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

Didn’t Elvis Presley have a song that went “You aint’ nuthin’ but a hound dog…... crappin’ all the time…”?!?!

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By Paracelsus, February 21, 2008 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think the elite bankers have any particular religion, but I do think they favor a paganistic spirituality that requires human sacrifice in some way. War, starvation and pestilence are favored methods. If you want to get a taste of elite spiritual practice I suggest you look up Bohemian Grove. As to Jews, a select number have talents in management and gamesmanship, which always make them in demand to the elites. Unfortunately the more lowly Jew gets punished for the schemes of his rarified and recondite brothers, who by no means represent Jewry.

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By Spanky, February 21, 2008 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Inherit the wind,
Tell me how many movies can I rent on the atrocities commited by the Turks, by the Khmer Rouge?  If you are lucky you might find 2.  How many books have been written on these two atrocities?  If you are lucky maybe 30.  Now tell me how may movies have been written about Hitler and the Holocaust.  I am guessing maybe 10,000 movies,documentaries, and sitcoms have been produced in the US .  How many books have been written about Hitler and the Holocaust. The figure is over 200,000. The list is endless. Now you know why people want to move on.  I think it is time for you to move on also.  There is so many other atrocities commited in our current world that you should now be concerned with.

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By lilmamzer, February 21, 2008 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

”....he or she should spew elsewhere or Truthdig use some judgement….”

<strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig use judgement? It/They do. What you read is by intent.

<strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig articles, especially those by Chris Hedges, aren’t much different than the bigoted filth David Duke and like-minded haters put out every day. The sycophantic chorus of idiotic commenters (Cyrena, Chalmers, Non Credible, PatrickHenry first and foremost among them) gather and excrete here daily precisely because of the garbage Scheer and Hedges upload.

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By lilmamzer, February 20, 2008 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

Chalmers couldn’t get to the CVS for the refill in time - LMFAO

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By lilmamzer, February 20, 2008 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

“it’s so nice when a knowledgeable person posts reality.”

And how would you ever know?

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By Frank Cajon, February 19, 2008 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

Well, Truthdig nixed my latest thread piece about Obama not being a peace candidate, in an Obama/Clinton thread. But, here, they print the stream of consciousness drivel of our new blogger ‘W’, whose contribution to the discussion omitted or was unaware of Adoph Hitler being born a Roman Catholic. Too busy misspelling words and spewing hate to look it up on Wikipedia or remember something taught in any college Western Civilization class. (This doesn’t mean that Roman Catholics are Hitlers, but if W was serious, and his or her blog wasn’t funny, he or she should spew elsewhere or Truthdig use some judgement).
Most of the other blogs get back to the old anti-religion deal. Opiate of the masses, all differing versions of the same shell game, etc. Bottom line: religion is like sexual preference. It really isn’t everyone else’s business, but as long as it doesn’t harm anyone, what is wrong with it-regardless of the type? Just keep it out of the government, don’t try to force your preference on others and I say leave it be. My professional experience treating people who have been involved in the other opiates has mellowed my approach to non-extreme secular religion.

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Blackspeare's avatar

By Blackspeare, February 19, 2008 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

Please don’t call me an anti-Semite; I am an equal opportunity bigot!  Yes, as the Old Testament is a compilation of Jewish fairytales, the New Testament relates Christian fairy tales though we prefer to call them myths——the Jews have better stories.  However, the Christians outdid the Jews when it came to telling whoppers——it’s hard to beat the resurrection and divination myths.  But what genius it was to devise such a concept especially in a world where religion was basically either pagan or Hebrew.  Since Hebrew did not proselytize so it was virtually closed to outsiders.

Though it did take 300 years for Christianity to take hold, it was fairly rapid for that time.  Constantine, for political reasons accepted Christianity though for him it was akin to Roman and Greek myth where the son usurps power from the father, i.e. Jupiter vs. Saturn, Zeus vs. Kronos.  But Christianity had one more attribute that perhaps accelerated its expansion and that was the inclusion of a female near-deity namely, Mary.  The mother of a deity certainly has perks!  Though the Greeks and Romans had female goddesses they were subservient to the male gods.  As for the Hebrews, women were subordinate to men in religion so along comes a new religion where a near-deity woman, subordinate to no one, is now part of the god cluster.  This appealed to woman of that time who persuaded their husbands that maybe Christianity deserved a second look——and the rest is history.  Though I like the quote from Pope Leo X, who in the 1500’s said, “It has served us well, this myth of Christ.”

I shouldn’t leave out Islam, which like Christianity had its roots in Judaism.  Islam’s rise as a major religion is remarkable, but since the Jews, at each juncture, opposed each of the new religions they became serious enemies.  However, Christians and Muslim both proselytize and by virtue of that they debase other religions, which is quite evident today since they both believe that the only way to salvation is to accept their beliefs or else you are doomed for eternity——now that ain’t very friendly is it?!

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By The Big Raven, February 19, 2008 at 10:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Baloney!
It strikes me funny how you americans and jews argue over such stupid things when all along you both come from the same place. Did you know that being jewish is not a race but a bunch of beleifs wound up in others cultures same whith white america you bastards make stuff up so you can live with yourselfs for the no-good deeds that have been done in your name and you all-so have the nerve to pretend that your closer to god than others. LIES LIES and more LIES
Yes people have been victimized by others it has happened to my people all-so MANIFESTED DESTINY MY ASS!

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By Paracelsus, February 19, 2008 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

They are all fairy tales, these religions.

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By Paracelsus, February 19, 2008 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

Just think of Jesus as the Sun. You see in August we have the constellation Virgo prominent in the sky. The symbol for Virgo is a strange looking ‘M’. A number of Mary’s gave birth to holy men, and gods. From Horus to Krishna, we have mothers with some meme involvin the letter ‘M’ and some combination of vowels and such. There are also the 12 apostles or brothers or disciples in all these myths. The Virgo constellation is also known as the house of bread. Bethelehem is the city that is known as the house of bread. Consider the 12 months of the year as well. Think of Jesus as the Sun rises and sets; remember the sun shall return again. On December 21st the Sun is at the lowest part of the sky in the southern hemisphere. The Southern Cross constellation is in the path of the Sun. In three days the Sun shall rise again from the Southern Cross. On the 25th day of December He(Son or Sun?) has fully risen, and ascended from the cross. Sirius is the morning star that preceds the the Sun. Before Sirius are three other stars, who are the Wise men who come to see the birth of the Son, El Sol. As it says in the Bible the it is only through the Sun that you can know the Father, which makes sense because the Sun is the source of life for every one. Anyway the whole New Testament seems to be on long strange joke based upon atrology and astronomy, which is the basis for Popes and priests, and all manner of bondage and subjugations to a very large institution, the Catholic Church. And to think, one does not really need a church for God the Father has already built his domed wonder of the sky
for humans to look upon in awe and wonder. Once you get the joke, you can save a lot of money on concrete, mortar and bricks. Please look up Zeitgeist on Google video.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 19, 2008 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

Howard—-you’re SURPRISED????

This is the guy who wrote:


Hey Karim…

You posted, “How about the 60-years of continued Holocaust in Palestine…”

Shame on you!  You know very well that the word “Holocaust” is assigned and solely belongs to people of the Jewish persuasion.  Even the Palestinians know this and they call their struggle, “The Catastrophe.”

Genius that he is, he doesn’t realize that “Holocaust” is the name assigned by the outside world.  To Jews, it’s called the “Shoah”. “Holocaust” is, to Jews, a more generic word.

But, Blackbeard the Pirate is another of the anti-semitic neo-nazis infesting Truthdig.  Somehow, none of the Arab and Palestinian atrocities against the Jews count for everything, but a crushed terrorist’s house is “the greatest atrocity in the history of the world.”

It’s all a big propaganda lie by moslem fundies playing the ultra-Left for total suckers.

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By Howard, February 18, 2008 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

Quite a lot of nonsense you put forth there.  If you say the Old Testament is Jewish fairy tales, why that means you feel the ‘New Testament’ is Christian fairy tales.

Yes the Jewish people gave the Bible to the world, along with their being the first group to offer monotheism or the belief in an invisible god; which was quite a new paradigm change instead of a belief in Zeus, Neptune, Aphrodite,etc

And yet not a word in your diatribe about the Germans and their Nazi leaders.  Just continue on blaming the victims that the article is written about. Did you read the article?  Talk then perhaps about the disliked German people would be more appropriate.

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By Blackspeare, February 18, 2008 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment

This article brings up the question of why Jews, of all people, are perhaps the most despised of groups throughout history.  The answer(s) is interesting, as it is complex. Some of the hatred is well earned and some is happenstance.

It all began in the early days of civilization where the Hebrews were, as were all people at that time, tribal.  The Hebrews became a feared and ruthless nomadic warrior tribe.  Their lore turned to legend and then into a religion resulting in the compilation known as the “Old Testament” or as Bill Maher would say, “ A Book of Jewish Fairytales”, but which did spawn several successful films!  Of course the lore was justification for their being as well as their role as the “Chosen People.”

Their warrior like demeanor and victories made them no friends in the ancient world as battles ensued with wins and losses all around.  All cultures have their ups and downs and eventually the Greeks then the Romans took over culminating in the dispersion of the Jews (by this time a fairly large population) throughout the eastern and western cultures.  The Jews survived in their own enclaves choosing not to integrate with the main society at large and of course religion played a large part in those days.

The advent of the Christian era marked a turning point in Jewish history——no need to be a rocket scientist here!  The ascendancy of the Christ to divine status was followed by a decline in the overall status of Jews in the early and Middle Ages and further alienated the Jews.  The Jews were the favorite whipping boy of the early Christian church and their fate ebbed and flowed with the events of those days.

As the church amassed political power the vehemence against the Jews became institutionalized and reached a crescendo during the Crusades.  But the Jews survived by hiding and migrating further into northern Europe and further into the Islamic world all the while resisting assimilation into the general societies in which they resided.

The expulsion of the Jews from Spain and Portugal in the late 1400’s further forced their migration northward with a large population entering into what would be Germany and Russia where their next milestone was to be decided.

In the 1500’s Martin Luther was looking to break away from the Roman Church and create his own form of Christianity.  To do this he enlisted the help of influential and wealthy Jews who were only too happy to help someone oppose the HRCC.  Martin Luther misinterpreted this help as a sign the Jews accepted his views and would join his church and thus he would become the “Savior” of the Jews so to speak.  When he made his pronouncement and formally renounced the HRCC he went to his Jewish backers and asked them to join him——they of course refused explaining their allegiance is to their religion.  Martin Luther was pissed and became one of the most outspoken critics against the Jews, which continued into present times culminating the Nazi’s “Final Solution.”  The hatred spread into Byzantine Russia.  However, it should be noted that in the 1800’s the Germany authorities did try to assimilate the Jews into the overall society and it did work to a great extent, but not enough to overcome the inherent hatred!

After WW II a combination of sorrow for the Jews as well as a desire to solve the “Jewish Problem” resulted the partition of Palestine into a Jewish area where a majority of Jews would migrate and make the rest of the world happy——-yeah right!

Since the ancient ages, Jews have somehow succeeded into arousing the scorn of the general population albeit a relatively small percentage, but enough to make trouble in certain regions.  Of course, the struggle between Israelis and Palestinians brings us full circle back to the days of old——-amazing how history repeats itself——this time instead of spears and chariots we have machine guns and tanks and the potential for some serious war-making events!

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By Conservative Yankee, February 18, 2008 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment
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By Armendez, February 17 at 12:07 pm #

“Honestly, do you think ...” Yes, actually I do.

“Do you honestly think rehashing the atrocities of sixty years ago serves the interests of Jews more so than offering assimilation and equality to the people who gave them their land?” 

Two problems with this;

1.) “..the people who gave them their land?” were the British who stole it from the rightful owners,

2.) Remembering the wrongs against Jews (sixty years ago)does not preclude a discussion of wrongs done to others today.

“My favorite Jews always favored peace, never wallowed in self pity and never believed that bullying innocent elderly and children was acceptable.”

It is difficult to know where to draw the line. Jews who “turn” on their own are nothing but traitors, but Jews who are led down a garden path which promises “peace” are often ambushed by the folks doing the promising. 

“I don’t know those Jews who don’t see the parallels of what the right-wing war mongering Israelis are doing to the Palestinian people, and what happened to Jews and indigenous people throughout history.  These are not the same Jews who taught me about peace and love.”

To some extent I agree.  My Grandmother (who had a number tattooed on her arm)often told us (when we were children) beware those who wear the kippah, but speak as Nazis.

The world’s problems are still tied to those events of long ago.  Hitler executed pacifist Jews, a western European breed, leaving the majority as non-pacifist. My grandmother also said “My arm should fall off before I raise it against another.”

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By JimBob, February 18, 2008 at 11:27 am Link to this comment

Well, that’s not exactly what I said, Wind old pal. The question is not whether I would be sensitive to the issue if “my people” had been the ones wiped out.  Of course I would.  The question is whether I would support or be part of a culture that is constantly picking at the scab and displaying its wound to others with the express and obvious intent of keeping alive a narrative in which it is owed something—and in which “my people” are allowed to visit whatever horrors it wishes on the land it occupies because of wrongs done to the “my people” by another population thousands of miles away.
The Cambodians don’t obsess about the Khmer Rouge because its depredations have been acknowledged by the rest of the world; in a sense, they HAVE gotten over it.  Turkish Armenians have been denied that kind of acknowledgment, so the past still sticks in their craw.  Except for a few nutcases, the world has recognized the suffering and extermination of the Jews in Europe during WWII; the world has apologized, sympathized and done what it could to provide reparation.  So yeah, it’s time to move on.  And it’s time to stop using what happened as an excuse to brutalize the Palestinians.

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By JimBob, February 18, 2008 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

I certainly was not proposing that the Big H be expunged from history books.  Of course, there are lessons to be learned, as there are from tragedies and horrors throughout history.

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By UNcle Ernie, February 18, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment
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Here we go again, those poor suffering Jews. Let’s keep this out in headlines forever because that way we won’t notice what the Zionazi’s are doing to the Palestinians. After watching the Jews in Palestine for the last 60 years perhaps Hitler was right?

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By thebeerdoctor, February 18, 2008 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Does anybody care what happened to the Armenians in Turkey in 1916?

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By kirk, February 18, 2008 at 8:25 am Link to this comment
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I often hear the mantra about “anti-Semitism” in Britain, Germany, France and in Europe in general. I’m a European and have lived in all three countries. Britain has the highest number of Jewish MPs of any other parliament and many are ministers in successive governments. France has a Jewish President. Germany has more and larger memorials to the Holocaust than any other country. Could those who talk about anti-Semitism in Europe please give an example, and a definition of what they mean by “anti-Semitism.”

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By cyrena, February 17, 2008 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

JimBob

What excellent observations. Clearly I agree.

I would add that there appears to be some irony in the stated purpose of keeping the holocaust alive in the universal mind. If in fact it is to assure that “it never happens again’ (Holocausts in general that is) then it damn sure isn’t working to that end.

These Holocausts just keep going, and keep going, and keep going. Too bad it can’t be converted to usable energy.

Now of course it was means that it should never again happen to Jews, then obviously it’s been more successful. (the sky writing, and the books, and the poems, and the movies, and on and on).

Maybe I should add that SOME of this knowledge and information on the European Holocaust IS helpful as instructive history, if we look at it as a Holocaust that developed as a result of a totalitarian movement, based on a specific ideology. (In this case both Nazism and communism, and again in this case, mostly Jews were the victims).

But, the overkill on this particular Holocaust as a tragedy that belongs solely to the Jews has not prevented the same atrocities from continuing. Only the victims have changed.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 17, 2008 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

So…the Armenians should get over the 1915 genocide by the Turks?  After all, that’s over 90 years ago.
The Cambodians should get over the Khmer Rouge slaughter of two million—that was over 30 years ago.
Blacks should get over the injustices of slavery—that was over 140 years ago…and they should get over Jim-Crow and segregation because that was over 40 years ago.
Maybe we should stop celebrating the 4th of July when we declared independence from British tyranny.  After all, that’s 230 years ago.  We should get over it by now!

Half of all the Jews in the world were wiped out in 4-5 years.  The ENTIRE Jewish culture of Europe was completely destroyed.  Many people still walking around today were there, were victims.  A congressman just died this week who was there and lost his family. 

But Jews should get over it…I’ll bet it’d be damned different if it was YOUR ox that was gored.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 17, 2008 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

As I pointed out below, this propagandist claims 13.5 million people were murdered from a nation of 3.4 million…

Now he claims Elie Weisel ignored the Holocaust…when there is photographic evidence of Weisel as a starved near-dead teenager in a Nazi death camp.  Weisel was there.  Karim, of course, was not.

There is no lie and no level that the Jew-haters won’t sink to.  They are building up a reservoir of excuses to start murdering Jews wholesale again—and Karim is one of those merchants of death, by spreading lies of Jewish injustices, as “evidence” to justify the next pogroms.

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By Armendez, February 17, 2008 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment
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Do you honestly think rehashing the atrocities of sixty years ago serves the interests of Jews more so than offering assimilation and equality to the people who gave them their land?  My favorite Jews always favored peace, never wallowed in self pity and never believed that bullying innocent elderly and children was acceptable.  I don’t know those Jews who don’t see the parallels of what the right-wing war mongering Israelis are doing to the Palestinian people, and what happened to Jews and indigenous people throughout history.  These are not the same Jews who taught me about peace and love.

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By Armendez, February 17, 2008 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment
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Freedom from religion is not something many of us predicted as our #1 Wish across the globe.  Darwinists, nihilists, and atheists agree, it is not a good idea to use religion to justify butchery, on anyone’s turf.  Yet, that simple fact played out over and over by every so-called God loving group of religionists never grows old or fallow.  It is never the religion, but the extremists; it is never the warriors you should hate, just the war itself, apparently, even if one of them kills your babies.

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By Armendez, February 17, 2008 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment
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Is there a problem with that?

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By JimBob, February 17, 2008 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, and somewhere there are people who maintain the Earth is flat.  No one cares because everyone knows they’re wrong.  But the Jews go NUTS when someone denies the Big H happened because it threatens their Pity Me narrative.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 17, 2008 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

Another neo-nazi spews spurious numbers.  According to him 18.5 million Poles died in the WWII.  That’s more than half the population, if not 2/3 at that time.  It’s pure bullshit. It is a lie.

Latvia supposedly lost 10.5 millions according to this liar.  Amazing, considering Latvia only has 2.3 million people.

Lithuania lost 13.5 million people—from a nation of 3.4 million.

Yugoslavia supposedly lost 7 million, out of a population of 20 million.

What this liar is doing is trying to say that the murder in the Holocaust of 6 million Jews is trivial compared to the suffering of others.

I mean, what can compare to a nation of 3.4 million people losing 13.5 millions?  Only Bush’s accounting uses arithmetic that blatantly cooked.

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By Ted Swart, February 17, 2008 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

Sure Jim.  There is much truth in what you say.  But, part of the reason why discussion of the holocaust is kept active is because there are many who deny its occurrence for reasons which are indefensible. It would be much better if all genocidal incidents were taught alongside each other without singling out the holocaust for special attention.

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By JimBob, February 17, 2008 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

I have nothing against Jews.  I live among them, I interact with them and they are just people.  Their religion is pretty mellow, though those who take it to extremes are like anyone else who takes religion to extremes: coo-coo.  What I don’t like is the business of keeping the holocaust alive in everyone’s mind.  Endless books, movies, poems, radio and TV shows, skywriting, you name it.  God forbid the world should forget what happened 60-odd years ago under very specific circumstances that show no signs of reoccurring.  Get over it, people!  It’s like this never-ending pity party.  Boring.  Zionists use it as an excuse to mistreat the people who lived in Israel before they took it over, so there it’s actually harmful.  But for the most part it Just Gets Old.

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By Louise, February 17, 2008 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Agreed.

I suppose the reasoning used by so many that somehow this is all prophecy may be what I meant. Not sure. I think a population that fights over the need to have government religiously guided, or fights over whether or not a candidate is too Christian or not Christian enough should stand to an accounting about the value of right and wrong irrespective of religious beliefs.

Same holds for any religious group. “It is prophecy” whether originating from Islam, Judaism, or Christianity is just one more manifestation of blind acceptance of blatant evil. I think.

Anyhow, thanks. smile

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By Ted Swart, February 17, 2008 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

A beautifully written and accurate synopsis Louise.  But I do find myslef puzzled by your last sentence.

“For a world that claims to believe in a higher being, there is no excuse.”

The truth is that there is no excuse irrespective of whether we believe or don’t believe in a higher being. And all too often it is the very fact of conflicting beliefs which causes the problems you so lucidly describe. Surely you cannot pretend that the treatment of Palestinians has nothing to do with a religious gulf between Jews and Muslims.

As you rightly point out “bigotry and prejudice” abound and this does facilitate hate. But unless and until we grow beyond baseless divisive beliefs there is little hope that we will get anywhere.

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By Louise, February 17, 2008 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

I wont bore you with my memories of WWII. I’ve ranted on that subject before.

But I feel a need to mention something that comes to mind, whenever I read anything documenting the persecution of so many people, by so many societies in that era.

When finally it appeared to be over, and more and more Jews migrated to what we now call the Nation state of Israel, there was a general, collective sigh of relief across America and Europe. Finally there would be a solution to the “Jewish” problem.

Yes it was a national sigh of relief. From the Pulpit, across kitchen tables, in Corporate Board rooms and at the highest levels of Government, people spoke of the “Jewish” problem. And people embraced the notion that putting them out of sight, therefore out of mind would solve the “problem.”

This needs to be pointed out, because the persecution and extermination of so many people across Europe, in Russia and Germany was a known fact throughout the civilized world. A civilized world that was oh so slow to respond, let alone acknowledge. Because that civilized world was of a similar mind-set. This “Jewish” problem was a problem that needed to be solved.

Fast forward to the present. The hand-full of people with an all to similar mind-set that controls the population of Israel, that feeds the one-sided empathy that radiates from so many “Christian” organizations. Only this time it isn’t the “Jewish” problem. This time it’s the “Palestinian” problem. And we still as a majority prefer to know, but not know. See, but not see. And choose not to respond.

There is no excuse for looking the other way while millions were murdered in Europe and Russia. Likewise there is no excuse for looking the other way while a whole society is systematically persecuted today. In other words, there is no excuse for the indifference that allows evil to control. Ever!

As long as there is greed and indifference, there will be evil men who take advantage and gain control. As long as there is a general acceptance that those in control know what’s best, there will be evil men who take advantage to satisfy their greed. A vicious circle that knows no end.

One would think that seeing the horrors that occurred before, during and after WWII, horrors that made population extermination somehow justified, we would all know better. And here we are. Not one scintilla smarter than we were back then. Why is that?

Because we lack the courage to see our own part in runaway greed and control and power and violence. And evil. We are just as cowardly today as we were when we chose to look the other way then. Then breath a collective sigh of relief when someone else came with the solution to the “Jewish” problem.

And what we avoid. What we carefully avoid, is asking ourselves why we were of a mind-set, three quarters of a century ago, that never tried to discover why we accepted that there was a Jewish problem in the first place! Why we were so willing to guide our thought process through the maze of bigotry and prejudice, that always leads to hate. And still do. The names and places may change. The problems may take on a slightly different rational, but the underlying reality ... prejudice and bigotry that leads to hate ... never changes.

For a world that claims to believe in a higher being, there is no excuse.

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By jackpine savage, February 17, 2008 at 7:31 am Link to this comment

And many of them still are.  Antisemitism is the national sport in a good many European countries.

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By Expat, February 17, 2008 at 6:41 am Link to this comment

^ just ignorant and deluded with beliefs mistaken for facts.

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By Expat, February 17, 2008 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

^ it’s so nice when a knowledgeable person posts reality.

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By Expat, February 17, 2008 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

^ and the stuff I’m on is life; glorious life with my wonderful wife.  Thanks for your concern.

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By Frank Cajon, February 16, 2008 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

To Howard: Don’t ever get the mistaken idea that any thread about the Jewish holocaust in Germany and Eastern Europe in the 1930s and 1940s has anything to has anything to do with the German Nazis or a totalitarian, fascist, invading military state like the US in 2002-2008. On Truthdig, it is all about the flawed policies of the Israeli state. It is about the Jew Enemy Plot to control the world banks, (not the US/OPEC complicity to hijack the world economy by quadrupling the price of crude oil). It is about how the Palestinians have gotten the shaft from the Isrealis decades later. Well, they have in many respects and I think the conditions that have existed for some Palestinians should have been dealt with much more sternly by the international community, (despite the fact that the Palestinians have in turn slaugtered many innocents in the name of an endless war themselves). Just how in the HELL this, or the other bullshit trotted out on this board equates to the magnitude of the Jewish Holocaust in Germany in the ‘30s and ‘40s never ceases to amaze me. But then, I also think that Bush and Cheney are the problem in America, and on this board, many of the posters don’t really have a problem with these madmen, because the problem is the ‘Zionists’.

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By Paracelsus, February 16, 2008 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

We should not forget John Foster Dulles or the folks at the International Bank of Settlements either. Also we should consider Watson at IBM, and the good people at GM and Ford who made the Third Reich the great power that it was. Oh yeah, we should thank Harriman and Bush in their efforts as well in making WWII such a smash up.

And I would like to thank the British and American eugnics movement for providing the Germans with the moral justification for population control. 

And also the Carnegie Foundation deserves much thanks for creating the impetus for wars so that we don’t want anymore.

Also I would like to recognize the British efforts at popualtion reduction with the mass starvation of the Bengali people of India in ‘44.

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By heide, February 16, 2008 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment
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there was one that happened way before the one that hitler started
this one happened right here in the good ole USA
only it was more like total and complete extermination,,very few of the original peoples of this land survived
where do you think hitler got his ideas of genocide
from,, shooting little kids in the back,, rounding people up and marching them to their deaths,,starving them to death on the reservations
stealing their land,, ect
hitler just used railway cars to move them quicker
and gas chambers so they would die faster

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By M, February 16, 2008 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No, banal things don’t tend to be particularly complex.

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 16, 2008 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

By Expat, February 16: “????????????????????????...!”

Be careful that you are aware of the difference betwen what is Zen and what is merely “mango madness”. The tropics, and the wet seasons in particular,  do have a strange effect on many from a cooler climate, especially white men.

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By Conservative Yankee, February 16, 2008 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who has “forgotten?”  Not in my family!

Now lets talk about the French, British and Spanish who were at least AS anti semitic as the Germans, Russians and Italians.

Or has someone forgotten that facet too?

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By Blackspeare, February 16, 2008 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

Hey Karim…

You posted, “How about the 60-years of continued Holocaust in Palestine…”

Shame on you!  You know very well that the word “Holocaust” is assigned and solely belongs to people of the Jewish persuasion.  Even the Palestinians know this and they call their struggle, “The Catastrophe.”

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By jackpine savage, February 16, 2008 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Interesting, but i would have to take exception to the statement that the Russian people knew almost nothing of the Wehrmacht.  Last time i visited the city formally known as Stalingrad, it was pretty deep into Russian territory.  The Germans stood for quite some time at nearly the gates of Moscow, where the citizens were actually defending the city.

And while the author makes a small mention of the siege of Lenningrad, he does so in a way that glosses over one of the most inhumane acts of modern history.  Of course, no one knows how many residents of the city died during the siege because Stalin refused to generate anything approaching an accurate count.  But most historians settle on at least a million, with some estimates climbing as high as 1.5 million.

Standing among the mass graves, marked only by year, in Piskaryovskoye Cemetery, one can get the feel of the tragedy.  The graves are roughly 20 feet wide by a hundred feet long, and they’re mounded about 4 feet tall.  There are 186 of them.  Originally, the bodies were stacked like cordwood…no one having the energy to dig graves in the frozen earth until after the war.

One of the world’s great cities lived for three years with no heat, no water, no electricity, and no food.  The German lines were a pleasant afternoon trip away in the near suburbs.  And contrary to what Wikipedia says, the Germans never intended to destroy the city.  Indeed, with over 250,000 bombs dropped, almost none of them fell on any major landmark.  Hitler wanted the city where Lenin launched his revolution left wholly intact, it was where the victory party (invitations for the Hotel Astoria were already printed) would be held.  His goal was to starve the city free of its people.

At least during the 90’s it was still possible to find people who spent their childhood in this situation.  One of the floor ladies in my dorm did so.  She was old and jolly, but once she told a few of us about those years…so long ago…and it reduced her to a state that there are no words for.

Many of the shell pocks remain.  Signs warning that one side of Nevsky Prospect is more dangerous during times of shelling still hang.  And on memorial days, the city is bedecked in flowers.  But on any day of the year, one can visit Piskaryovskoye and find at least one old person.  They move slowly, accompanied by the melancholy strains of classical music that wafts, perpetually, from the trees, carrying enough flowers to lay a single stem on each headstone that may contain their mother or sibling or spouse.

The residents of Leningrad knew the Germans quite well…Communist, Jew, and children alike.

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By Howard, February 16, 2008 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

What a long-winded bunch of lies ! Nothing about the Germans. Nothing about the Nazis. Nothing about the consequencs of their murderous actions with their depraved leaders. Nothing about how they adored Hitler and were dovoted to him and his henchman. That such a cultered educated country could do this might be something to be mentioned. Doesn’t portend well for humankind if episodes like the Nazi era are repeatd.

No, Karim has to spend 4 pages filled with falsehoods and accusations that are baseless diatribes against the victims.  Blame them.  Accuse the victims of a wold plot. On and on. It’s called cow manure.

Imagine.

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By karim29007, February 16, 2008 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

The Holocaust Industrial Complex ………….Part 4 of 4
——————————————————————
The Holocaust is all bout the intentionally inflicted pain and misery.
If this is the case, then how about the “Fire Sacrifice” in the X-Soviet Union, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Hanoi, Iraq, Afghanistan,……….?
How about the 60-years of continues Holocaust in Palestine and the whole Palestinian nation in the concentration and extermination camps of West Bank and Gaza under the jack boots of cowardice Zionist mercenary Wermacht, with camps’ SS Commandante General Ehud Barak reporting to chief camps’ supervisor Ehud Olmert concerning the “Final Solution” of Palestinians’ problem?
How about the Zionists’ doctors Mangeles’ whom experimenting to see how long a nation can be bombed, shelled, starved, tortured and survive the whole host of deliberately inflicted diseases?
How about experimenting to see how and how long it takes for Palestinians babies to die by cutting off the electricity supply to the incubators?
How about the more than 10.000 Palestinians innocent women and children being interned and incarcerated for the last 12-years in various camps in Zionist entity just to make psychological observations of their survivals?
How about the destruction of several thousands of Palestinians’ villages and their confiscations?
How about using Lebanon and Lebanese as a place and object to test and verify the effectiveness of their newly produced Cluster-Bombs by the Zionists’ scientists?
The bloody list could go on forever.
And no compensation nor museums there.

This list of indictment is partially reflecting the Holocaust industry.
Zionists elites here in the United States have enjoyed enormous prosperity by any means that justifies that end at the expense of the rest of the world and in specific America and Americans in terms of blood and blood money.
From this combination of economic and political power has sprung, unsurprisingly, a mindset of “Zionistic superiority and uniqueness” over and above all the Goyims.
Wrapping themselves in the mantle of The Holocaust, these Zionist elites pretend—and, in their own solipsistic universe, perhaps imagine themselves—to be victims, dismissing any and all criticism as manifestations of “anti-Semitism” and demanding payments from there to eternity at the same time!

NYT, the main mouth-piece of Zionists, the advancing tool for the careers of Jerzy Kosinsky, Daniel Goldhagen, Elie Wiesel, and Willy Kristol, et al,  not only totally ignored the holocaust when it was shaping, however, no amount of showering of praises was sparred :

“This extraordinary man-(Hitler)- high marks for his unification of the Germany, his destruction and inhalation of Communism, his training of the young, his creation of a Spartan State animated by patriotism, his curbing of parliamentary government, and his protection of the right of property, creation of mass employment……..”- The New York Times, 15 October 1933.*

Justice, like history, has no statute of limitation.
What goes round comes around and those who live by the bombs must die by the bombs.

[*Attribution: By Dr. Norman Finkelstein- a Jew and son of two Holocaust survivors.

He has been labelled and prosecuted as “Holocaust denier and anti-Semites”, in an attempt by the Zionists to deprive him the opportunity to ‘speak-out’.
He is a scholar, a political scientist and a human rights’ activist with several acclaimed books and highly researched documents to his credit.
His recent publications had to be printed in England as it was not permitted to get it done in the US.
While teaching at DePaul University, first he was refused tenure, black-mailed, threatened and then fired).]

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By karim29007, February 16, 2008 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

The Holocaust Industrial Complex……………Part 3 of 4
————————————————————-
How much Money has been collected and where has it all disappeared?

The Monies, the heart of the matter and the crux of the issue, is a difficult it trace to determine.
Here we are dealing with the question of Money and it is a big-one.
The ‘Claim Conference’ was the umbrella created to represent more than 200 major Jewish and Zionist organized and syndicated groups in the US and the Zionist entity and was responsible for negotiation and collecting the monies from anyone and anywhere they could possibly put their hands on.

The German government alone has paid some $60.000.000.000, so far to date.
The Swiss banks has paid $1.250.000.000, so far to date.
The above figures are those that have been ‘indirectly acknowledged’. What has not been admitted is the undeclared amount that has been extorted from the Eastern-European countries, in specific Poland, with very little information available.

The “Money-war” begun even before it arrived.

Just a little bit of history was repeating ; like the good old days in N.Y., East and the West costs, the National Crime Syndicate, Meyer Lansky, Bugsy(Bar Levi) et al….but at least they had code of conducts, as in Murder, Inc, honest gangsters they were.
Here there would be mine fields of deception, self-allocations by defrauding the “Real” survivors and the remaining victims.

[The Clinton regime was instrumental in the process of reparations from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland etc.; hence the complete approval of their nominations by AIPAC and the rest of Zionists’ consolidated consortium with substantial kick-backs towards their electoral campaign and this is what the compound “Billary” is all about including her support for war that has resulted the death of over a million people in Iraq alone and no Holocaust there!
Compare this with the criminal treatment of Senator Dennis Kucinich just because he could not be bought by the existing mafia-style establishment of AIPAC].

According to Volcker and Restitution Committees for the Holocaust survivor’s, average pay-out is around $3.750 once their applications were successful!
If we multiply this by upper estimated numbers of survivors of 100.000, the total payment to “all of them” would be around $375 millions.
Deducting this from the “declared” amount collected solely from the Germans and the Swiss there would be staggering balance of $60.875.000.000; just under$61- Billions, not a small amount even by the Zionists’ imaginations.
According to the main clause of the settlement, the monies should have been entirely allocated to the survived victims.
So why only the meagre amount namely less than ½ % was spent on the Holocaust survivors and where are the 99.5 % of the collected Monies?
1-  Some towards creating Disney-meets-Holocaust museums.
2-  Some towards building settlements in occupied Palestine.
3-  Some towards agents of publicities, management and lawyers.
4-  The ‘Bulk’ must have simply vanished into the black-hole of Zionists’ Swiss bank accounts.
At No Time Any Detailed Account Has Ever Been Published.
And most probably we shall never know.
However there were many newly ‘Jewish multi-milliners’ suddenly popped-up all over the country.

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By karim29007, February 16, 2008 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

The Holocaust Industrial Complex ……….. Part 2 of 4
——————————————————————
The US is ‘the corporate’ headquarters of the holocaust industry.
Their strategy has been based on terror and scare tactics aimed primarily at the Germans and the Swiss banks, massive direct propaganda, utilizing controlled media and psychological warfare, the US global pressure, economical boycott and assets confiscations were some of the devices that brought it to its present conclusion.

With all the necessary tools of trade fully at the disposal of extortion racketeers, they have micro-managed the art of deception to perfect profiteering from the blood money.

The scam’s layout was prepared by WJC with Wiesenthal Centre, WC, as the operational-hob, with Rabbi Marvin Hier, his wife and son in charge, all on annual payroll of more than $500.000.
The plan, based upon the frame work of ‘eternal anti-Semitism and exclusive franchise was consisted of:

1-To change Nazi genocide to “The Holocaust”.

2-There should never be a comparative parallel. That is to say the Holocaust is as unique as “We are”, the Chosen people, and the selected race by the all-mighty himself, and hence no one has suffered as much as “We did”. [According to two respected holocaust researchers Dr.Henry Freidlander and Dr. Raul Hilberg (both Jewish and commissioned by WC) the Nazis murdered half-million Gypsies as well as almost 175.000 of the handicapped population. The latter was the first victimized group].

3-As there is no resolution to ‘Our Everlasting-Pain’ and since history does not have a statute of limitation consequently by definition there never be an end to compensations due to us by all those Goyims.

4-By implication, the “Prize Money” is and would be exclusively “Ours Only”.

5- We shall have the legitimacy and the licence to “duplicate and replicate” the Holocaust with added high rate of interests and dish it out to anyone who dares to make enquires let alone to interfere with our requirements.

6-Having been immunized by the Holocaust, ‘We’ shall all be “Borne-again Zionists”.


The Holocaust survivors and the Monies:

How much has been the amount of reparations and where has it all gone?

With high probability no one ever knows exact figures as it has very carefully been shrouded with secrecy and deceptions, however, first, one has to determine the number of survivors of the concentration camps, exclusively Jewish, of course.

The very reliable investigation by Dr. Friedlander that was done for WC indicated the number of 100.000.
But as the business of negotiation approached its final stages the numbers of survivors started to rise exponentially to 7.000.000!!
How WC has arrived at this figure is anybody’s guess, but as the demanded settlement’s monies were directly related to the number of survivors, the reason becomes obvious, that is to say the bigger the number bigger the pay-check.

However this has brought up a very important question namely ‘If there are 7.000.000 survivors of Holocaust and they are all exclusively Jews, then who did Hitler kill?

When WC was asked about the 7.000.000 survivors, the reply was along line of”Any Jew who feels the pain about Holocaust, is a Holocaust survivor”.

An interesting observation in regards to the many thousands of submitted testimonies and applications by the “survivors” shows that ‘they have all been examined by Dr. Mangele himself personally and on various occasions’*.

The chutzpah is beyond the pale.

Taking into consideration the conditions in the camps the reality is that there could not be many and most researches indicates the figure around 25.000 and has declined greatly as the time passes by.

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By karim29007, February 16, 2008 at 4:45 am Link to this comment

The Holocaust industrial complex ………..Part 1of 4

Dr. Rabbi AUTHOR Hertzberg, former president of the American Jewish Congress, and former vice president of the World Jewish Congress:

“It is not about justice, it is a fight for the Money. When Germans or Swiss refuses to pay even the heavens cannot contain the righteous indignation of organized American Jewry. But when Jewish elites rob Jewish survivors, no ethical issues arise; it is all about money with endemic and wide spread misappropriations”.

[The verdict of someone whose European relatives had died at the Nazis’ hands, a rare Jewish scholar and very much an insider, with more than 30-years dealing with the Holocaust].

“One can deceive some for sometimes but not all for all the times” and 60-Years has been a long, long time.

This is an open forum for anyone with open mind- even the Zionists are invited in conjunction with their deviousness, slurism, illiteracy, ignorance and inherent psychosis.

In this protracted running saga the silence is not an option, time to break the Zionists’ global gagging order as there are many serious and disturbing anomalies, discrepancies and injustices. A time to demystify and examine the Fire-Sacrifice.

May be some already well known and established events will help to starts the said subject on a correct path.

‘Encyclopaedia Britannica- WWII casualties:

-Soviet Union (Russia)...……27 Millions+3 Million houses +108 Million live stocks.
-China……………………….19.5 Millions.
-Poland……………………...18.5 Millions.
-Lithuania…………………...13.5 Millions.
-Latvia………………………10.5 Millions.
-Germany……………………10.5 Millions.
-Yugoslavia………………….7.0 Millions.
The total may exceed 100 Millions if other nations’ losses are included.

The concentration and extermination camps in Nazi Germany and in German-occupied territories were planed and operated initially for the detention of Polish political prisoners as well as Russian POW, ending up by being centres for ethnic cleansing by to-days terminology.

In Auschwitz, Belsen, Dachau, Buchenwald and Treblinka many hundred of thousands were gassed, shot, died of hanger and disease.
Amongst them were Gypsies, Handicapped population, , Poles, Russians, Jews, Jehovah’s’ witnesses, German Socialists/Communists, dissidents, Freemasons, Blacks, homosexuals and in general all “Anti-social elements” according to the Nazis’ policies.

One single loss of life is too many, a single destruction of a home or habitat is in no way acceptable let lone such horrific and unimaginable numbers.

Exploitation of anyone’s suffering is the most repugnable and repulsive deed specifically if it has been committed merely for immoral and illicit financial gain and Money.

Here we are dealing with the situation where the greedy and gluttonous Zionists are capitalizing on the trauma, torment and afflictions of “May-be” there own kind, purely and simply to intimidate and black mail the culpable parties involved to supplement and augment the ever growing requirements of their own bulging red-eyes.

The contentious issue of ‘numbers’ and the other millions of victims around the world, past and present, are beyond the scope of this debate and will have a special treatment of its own later on, including the fundamental questions of why and how did it happen and whom were the main participants, including the German Zionist Federation collaboration and interactions with Hitler, Mussolini and the Nazis, in its planning and implementation and above all why more of the same is being applied to the Palestinian nation.

The Zionists Holocaust industry’s history of corruption, and coercion, despite the standardized norm of lies, deceits and fraud, although is complicated but not too troublesome to be examined and investigated with more and more documents are becoming available as a case of a tainted trial and stolen justice.

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By Expat, February 16, 2008 at 4:27 am Link to this comment

???????????????????????????????????!

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By Ken Mitchell, February 16, 2008 at 4:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There were also many Blacks killed in the holocaust. See this site

http://www.black-history-month.co.uk/articles/holocaust_victims.html

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By cyrena, February 16, 2008 at 3:56 am Link to this comment

Lark…

On this..

“... ... So why can’t we see that history has always been slanted to favor the victors in its most sympathetic light?...”

It’s actually not just that history has been slanted this way…that’s the way it is. It’s got a name, at least according to a favorite professor. It’s called ‘Victors’ Justice’ or something like that. Victor’s something…

Anyway, that’s how we got Empire’s Law..which we see continues to negate the standard rule of law…

So, it’s not just the way the history books have been written, (which includes the history that is never included)...it’s Victor’s rule of law…

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 16, 2008 at 12:49 am Link to this comment

By Expat, February 15: “Grrrrr…...typo three…”

Whassa matter, Expat? D’ya mean yo’re having trouble gettin it on - or gettin it up? Or falling over when you try to get out of/into yer pants?

Maybe you’ve become too “comfortable” in a year-round summer climate and should come back to the cold weather to wake yo’self up?

Better try just staying of whatever stuff you are on, eh. “Man’s Search for Meaning”.....ha ha ha ha!

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By Expat, February 16, 2008 at 12:30 am Link to this comment

three.

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By Lark, February 16, 2008 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

Zionists, Jesuits… and their puppets… have ruled over mankind for at least 500 years…

... So why can’t we see that history has always been slanted to favor the victors in its most sympathetic light?

After all, don’t “they” approve the textbooks we get to read in our public schools?

Doesn’t history often repeat itself, besides?

Propaganda is a double-edged sword used on friend and foe alike - particularly if one is just a common psychopath inclined towards greed, usury, misdirection, and domination over a weaker and gentler people.

It was never about race, so much as it was about class, cunning, and crude displays of raw power, first. And, yes, Jews did die in great numbers during the Second World War, but so did a lot of other people - those ultra-rich Zionists cared little for them if they didn’t have enough moxie and bucks to escape the carnage.

Pretty much like BushCo ultimately cared so little for the victims of Katrina and 9/11.

Race was a weighty consideration for the early eugenicists during that era, it’s true; but today our global planners keep such tawdry, unspeakable considerations under wraps, now don’t they?

And let’s never forget that it was the worldwide Zionist banking cartel that funded all sides during BOTH world wars; and that corporatists like Prescott Bush were just low-brow opportunists operating within that same cartel.

After the war, the newly-created United Nations and state of Israel represented the spoils of war for Rothschild and company; and the poor, hapless Palestinians simply got in their way.

It’s why they’re being marked for dispossession and extermination too, don’t you think?

Americans just may be next to fall to the Zionist banksters’ communitarian planning scheme; if, in fact, we haven’t been won over quite already.

But then, you know how it is, if we as citizens don’t stand for something - like, for instance, the Bill of Rights under our original American Constitution before 1913 - we’re liable to fall for anything!

Right?

It’s not our fault most of us get our news and information from the Zionist controlled media, is it?

Do any of you suffer under the illusion we still live in a democracy?

That, we, the people, have any say-so whatsoever anymore?

Oh well, (Orwell?) maybe some of you aren’t aware of the shadow government operating in our midst.

Communitarianism depends on pre-determined outcomes and lots of deception for those who promulgate this alien, wholly un-American socio-political and economic philosophy.

Communitarian Law represents the shackles currently being placed around our wrists and ankles. If you’re unfamiliar with these terms, then listen and learn from the following interview, in three parts, below.

But, above all, get prepared for the worst… which is still… soon to come.

The banksters’ Great Depression wasn’t so great, to be sure - to earn our way out of it, Americans were reduced to serving as lowly-paid mercenaries and builders of a great war machine, as a form of tribute to our bankster friends in New York and London - yet this Greater Depression being deliberately foisted upon us… will soon be lived by you and me…

... And, boy, will it prove to be just as unbelievable to future students of history, just the same!

This time ahead, we’ll become their victims - like our parents and grandparents were before us.

http://70.86.73.4/raapana/raapana1.mp3
http://70.86.73.4/raapana/raapana2.mp3
http://70.86.73.4/raapana/raapana3.mp3

Who’ll get to approve the history books’ final drafts… after this next depression… and the several more wars to follow… I wonder?

Let me know. I may be in need of some miserable job - if I live long enough… to actually go beggaring for one… in all this madness.

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By Expat, February 15, 2008 at 11:42 pm Link to this comment

Now there are tree; me too.

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By Ted Swart, February 15, 2008 at 11:13 pm Link to this comment

Frank.  You say:

“Speaking for myself, I think the holocaust should never be forgotten, and we should learn from it. On this board, I am the exception to the rule.”

Since I agree with this sentence I guess I must join you in being an exception. People don’t seem to realize that today’s reality of Guantanimo Bay etc and the historical reality of the holocaust live along side each other as “end justifies the means” aberrations.

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By Frank Cajon, February 15, 2008 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

True to form, and even in the absence of the ernstwhile Godsend with his or her emoticons and tales of aliens and doomsday at the hands of the Jew Enemy, Truthdig folks once again can’t resist taking a story of human horror and instead of learning from it-or applying to today’s totalitarian holocaust in Iraq by our fascist Fuhrer-instead march out the tired old rhethoric about ‘not another holocaust guilt trip’ and the customary anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic diatribes. No wonder Bush/Cheney Reich has so little trouble using torture with impunity, running their Blitzkreig all over the Middle East, and spying upon anyone who is felt suspicious by the various Secret Police. It is all because the real enemy is of course, the Jews, the Israelis. Because we don’t like the Israelis, the holocaust is a sniveling that we don’t want to hear about.
The world should forget these six million civilians who 60 years ago were starved, gassed, or incinerated. We don’t want to hear any more of their whining, on Truthdig. The blogsite where you can thread what the Nazi party bloggers do, but it’s okay, because you’re drilling beneath the headlines.
Speaking for myself, I think the holocaust should never be forgotten, and we should learn from it. On this board, I am the exception to the rule.

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By Expat, February 15, 2008 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

^ changed my view of everything.  Thanks for the reminder.

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By cyrena, February 15, 2008 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

Interesting comments here, on what sounds like an interesting book, for those who need to know more. Oddly enough, (or probably not for me) when I first looked at the TITLE ONLY…”The FORGOTTEN HOLOCAUST” in the Arts and Culture section, it came to my mind that maybe somebody was writing about the FORGOTTEN HOLOCAUST of the Native Americans. Silly me.

Anyway, this does sound like an interesting book. Again, for those who are unaware. It comes to me (as a scholar) at quite an advantageous time, since I’m involved in a seminar that covers these details extremely well, but from the standpoint of what this Holocaust at least, was actually all about. I’m learning of all of these details, (including those that the author thinks are forgotten) from the perspective of AUTHORITARIAN STATES. The ideologies behind totalitarian movements, (which was the basis for this Holocaust, and so many others).

So, Hitler and his Nazis, and Stalin, and Moussolini, and Pal Pot, and Fujimori, and that guy that just died…the Indonesian dictator, and a variety of others who have performed mass executions against people of various nations and regions.

Anyway, for those who might be interested in the origins of the mentalities that have created so many of these Holocausts, (and not all have been motivated by the same ideologies, but still make the point) a good read for the Holocausts that included Hitler and Stalin can be obtained in Hannah Arendt’s “The Origins of Totalitarianism”, (Harcourt Brace & Co., 1973) It does address theory, so if one is board with that, and prefers to just believe that these atrocities were all simply what Ted Swart says here:

•  “…examples of the human capacity for insane exterminations or attempts at extermination.”

Then you won’t be much interested. In reality, there’s far more to it than just this human capacity for insane evil. Because, it’s critical to understand HOW all of these people could have been exterminated, with seemingly little resistance.  For that, one has to understand the theoretical foundation of the authoritarian or totalitarian thinking. The human subjects of this violence can be selected for more than just race/ethnicity or religion, which is why it is not only Jews that have been ‘Holocausted’ throughout the decades and Centuries.  Generally though, the race issue is at the top of the heap. For Stalin, it was classes.

Meantime, I see here yet another erroneous claim about Ahmadinejad (again from Ted) and his supposed denial of the Jewish/European Holocaust, and so I’ll keep correcting it every someone makes it, because it’s a dangerous lie, that has caused far too much grief and misunderstanding.

•  “Everyone knows that the likes of Ahmadinejad and others claim that the holocaust never occurred.”

This is patently FALSE on it’s face, because neither Ahmadinejad, or any of the others who have been given the name of “Holocaust Deniers” have ever claimed that it NEVER OCCURRED. The TRUTH is that EVERYBODY knows that the Jewish/European Holocaust DID occur, including Ahmadinejad, who is a scholar and a teacher of history. When properly translated, what he HAS said, is that the Palestinians and other Arabs of the Middle East, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PERPETRATION OF THE HOLOCAUST, and that it has been used to create a ‘myth’, that the Israelis are somehow ‘entitled’ to perpetrate the SAME atrocities, against an racial/ethnic/religious group of people.

To sum it up, the Jewish Holocaust has been used as the excuse to created a 60 year long Arab Holocaust in the Middle East.

Let’s try to keep that straight, OK?

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By Beuzy Haro, February 15, 2008 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It never fails to amaze me how much time and effort are put into reliving this so called holocaust that some say did,some say didn’t happen.
Everywhere that the colonials from Europe decided to colonize back in the good old days like here in New Zealand ended in a genuine holocaust for the natives of these countries but we don’t see them/us going on and on and on about it.
Certain events from the past are best left in the past in order for us to move forward.

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By Ted Swart, February 15, 2008 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

The comments on this book review seem at times nothing short of bizarre. Everyone knows that the likes of Ahmadinijad and others claim that the holocaust never occurred. And quibbling over the exact number that were killed and the precise manner in which they met their deaths serves little purpose.  It is good that the historical truth is kept alive. This does not mean that others (than Jews) were not holocausted including gypsies, homosexuals and Russian prisoners.
It also does not mean that genocide/mass murder has always been directed against or carried out by those of a specific religious orientation. The mass murders by Stalin in Russia, Mao in China and Pol Pot in Cambodia, the Burundi/Rwanda tragedy and what is going on right now in Darfur are all examples of the human capacity for insane exterminations or attempts at extermination.
Whenever collective madness takes over one or other group of humans such things happen. Almost always this seems to be linked to some kind of rigid dogmatic system—whether religious or non-religious.  All of these grim events deserve a thorough historical analysis and it is ridiculous to suggest that only the Jewish holocaust has found its way into movies and print. (The Killing Fields someone? Detailed documentaries on the inquisition?)  To suggest that there is some kind of conspiracy to create more books about the holocaust is far fetched to say the least.
It is long gone past time that we humans grew up and became free thinkers not hidebound by the religion or country or culture we happen to have been brought up in. Books by survivors of genocide are sometimes incredibly insightful.
Come on you cynics.  If you have not yet read Viktor Frankl’s
book entitled Man’s Search for Meaning give yourself a treat and restore some balance in your lives.

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By Howard, February 15, 2008 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

About time we heard more about these abysmal atrocities the Germans set forth in Russia. The debt we owe the Russian people in helping to destroy the Nazis should not be forgotten.

No more than we should forget the utter depravity the Germans unleashed against the European countries, Russia and the U.S.

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By observer, February 15, 2008 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Although you cloak your argument as a sentiment against AIPAC, you are really an anti-Jewish bigot since this historically documented suffering of the Jewish people in Soviet Russia has nothing to do with the current lobbying group.  Admit that you have an axe to grind and simply don’t like Jews.  There is nothing in your statement that indicates anything else.

It is quite obvious you are paranoid of Jews since you are so hung-up on the “chosen people” label and attempt to de-legitimize any contribution Jews have made to world culture.

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 15, 2008 at 3:44 pm Link to this comment

Its a pathetic tear-jerker in the USA especially - and AIPAC has been playing on it for all its worth. That is untold $billions in aid, mainly military,  and endless promises from the US administration. See the list of AIPAC’s “achievements” which they rave about at http://aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp

Ever since Charlton Heston and others popularised biblical-era movies in Hollywood of the 1950’s, the fantasy of the Jews as “the chosen ones” has evolved to control the minds of fundamentalist Christians in the Western world. Sad that its all a lie but it is still bound up in the Western misconceptions of Jesus and his teachings as supposedly being somehow Jewish.

Christianity is an Eastern religion and it is an extension of the missionary teachings of the Buddha and Eastern philosophies going back to the ancient Hindus. Imperialist Europe misunderstood the Jews as “the source” as they were unable to comprehend a greater civilisation than themselves further East in China or India. Now Christianity is stuck with it…...

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By Chris, February 15, 2008 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most people seem to think that Hitler rounded up Jews, and sent them all to the death camps, with their gas chambers and ovens. End of story. Those a little more aware of the fuller story, are aware that it really started with mass shootings, done by the Einsatzgruppen.

The purpose of the death camps was to,  supposedly, make it easier on those doing the killing.  Apparently, it took it’s tool on the men who did the rounding up and shooting of men, women and children, after awhile. It was, supposedly, an “act of kindness” to the people who did the killing. (It also fascilitated mass killings).

I’m not a Holocaust scholar, but I have always had a need to read about it, even though it can obviously be a very harrowing and depressing subject.

But after studying about it for so long, I became aware of how the chapter of the slaughter of Soviet Jewry was so unknown to so many people. They think it just took place in Europe.

A book like this was needed to make this chapter of the Holocaust known, to so many people who didn’t even know it existed.

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By Danny, February 15, 2008 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes please don’t let us forget!!!! I wonder what the answer to this question is, as victims, what have we accomplished to make sure suffering like that will not happen again? Do we just fully confront the forces of tyranny across the world and here in the US or do we just pick and choose our tyrants? What has all of this been about getting ahead financially? What about the role the Jews played in slavery is there any compensation for that for Black Americans? What about the Native Americans, how much have the Jews contributed to help other victims in the world? American Jews have lots of money which has bought them lots of power but please someone answer this what have they done to help the world or even just Americans, suffering Americans with their money? Go ahead and call me anti-Semite or self hating Jew but please answer the question.

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By republicanSScareme, February 15, 2008 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I guess most people have noticed the rash of Zionist propaganda being put out on the airways and print media, including truthdig. I’m sorry to see Mr. Sheer, a man I greatly respect, for participating in this propaganda blitz. Like we don’t see enough holocaust tear-jerkers. The Zionists know they are in trouble because of their support of George W. Bush’s immoral agenda. They know they look immoral so they’re rushing out the poor little Jews stories.

Anyone who researches Israel and Zionism will discover one of the most morally-dubious countries on the planet. No poor little girls in pink dresses living there.  All the “terrorism” blamed on the Palestinians is simply self-defense on their part. Israel attacks them with modern weapons while they respond with home-made bombs. Yeah, they’re the “terrorists”, alright.

If it turns out that the Zionists were involved in the 9/11 con-job, Jews could be facing their greatest danger since the rise of the Nazi state. People will not make the distinction between a Zionist and a Jew.

Decent Jews must come out against the corrupt and murderous Zionist philosophy to protect themselves if they are in fact decent.

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By dick, February 15, 2008 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Evil passions are often cloaked by religion. Genocide was commanded by the Jewish god, for example. The mayhem in Palestine is mainly caused by religious convictions. etc. Communism was certainly a religion in Russia.

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