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Arts and Culture

Todd Gitlin on ‘The Terror Dream’

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Posted on Nov 1, 2007
terror dream cover
nytimes.com

By Todd Gitlin

In her new book, “The Terror Dream: Fear and Fantasy in Post-9/11 America,”  Susan Faludi squares three circles at once.  She takes popular culture seriously but, for the most part, refuses to overload each and every scrap in our onrushing media torrent with unearned significance.  She connects the spasm of understanding and misunderstanding that began on Sept. 11 with a deep strand of American history, yet without washing away the singularity and enormity of what happened on that grotesque day.  Her third feat is this: Her third book, her most fluid and stylish, is also her most compressed. 

To write well about catastrophes, especially catastrophes that—thanks to media immersion—“everybody knows,” requires a difficult hybrid of concentration, severity, delicacy, nearness and distance.  I don’t know that anyone has yet got the imaginative measure of that terrifying day six years ago.  Certainly our Tolstoy has not crawled out of the rubble.  The closest we have, Don DeLillo, succeeded as an essayist-journalist (“In the Ruins of the Future: Reflections on Terror and Loss in the Shadow of September,” Harper’s, December 2001) but, to my mind, failed as a novelist (“Falling Man”).  One reason, perhaps, is that the remembered emotion was instantly buried under a pile of cultural junk.  (See under: Giuliani.)  Faludi conducts an autopsy of the latter without indifference to the former.  “The Terror Dream” is, among other things, a tract for the times against slovenly journalism, which is the means by which this culture decides not to think straight.

 

book cover

 

The Terror Dream

 

By Susan Faludi

 

Metropolitan Books, 368 pages

 

Buy the book

There was the trauma of Sept. 11 and there was the trauma that began that day.  The first was the murderous work of 19 hijackers.  The second began as a work of repair—I mean cultural repair, the sort that any society needs to make sense of breaches of decency—and turned into a cultural hijacking.  This second hijacking began with a profound and unacknowledged sense of humiliation—precisely what was supposed to be a distinctly Muslim trait.  Alongside a lot of grown-up resolve and plain decency in action, ancestral myths were reinvented—action heroes, “security moms.”  There emerged a whole raft of artifacts that enshrined a certain image of the approved American way to respond—like a Hollywood montage called “The Spirit of America” that began and ended with images of John Wayne rescuing his little niece in John Ford’s 1956 Western “The Searchers.”  Eventually, too, the trauma spawned a catastrophic war fought in the name of a hodgepodge of deceit and delusion.

“The enemy that hit us on September 11 was real,” Faludi writes.  “But our citizenry wasn’t asked to confront a real enemy.”  Out of terror, American culture howled its way back into a territory that looked familiar.  “The arrest and prosecution of our antagonists seemed to be of only secondary concern.  Instead, we were enlisted in a symbolic war at home, a war to repair and restore our national myth of invincibility.”  From this myth, “we dreamed ourselves into a penny-dreadful plot that had little to do with the actual world in which we must live.”  We dreamed ourselves back into it.  The terror dream, it turned out, had been dreamed long before —centuries before—the event.  Like boys building forts in the woods, we opted for cultural comfort.  We sleepwalked into “homeland security” schemes that had as much to do with fantasy as with practical benefits.  We entranced ourselves into a preventive war against a country that had nothing to do with the attacks.  If you look at this mania in the eerie light of history, you can see that all this deceit and delusion was the work of a cultural Dracula dragging itself once more out of its shallow grave.  History repeated itself behind our backs.  Welcome to war against an Axis of Injuns to protect the honor of the wimmenfolk.

“Brokers, busboys, clerks, municipal workers, and military bureaucrats, not little girls, were the victims of the terrorist attacks.  Why did we perceive an assault on the urban workplace as a threat to the domestic circle?” Faludi asks.  “Why were we willing ourselves back onto a frontier where pigtailed damsels clutched rag dolls and prayed for a male avenger to return them to the home?”  The answer is:  a bad case of the historical oldies.

Like everyone else who treads these mythic territories, Faludi is indebted to the cultural historian Richard Slotkin, whose magnificent piece of Vietnam-era excavation, “Regeneration Through Violence” (1973), amply displayed centuries of American sagas obsessed with strutting hunters and kidnapped damsels.  Faludi has also plunged deeply into the subsequent scholarship on captivity narratives.  But I don’t know that she exactly answers this question of how a whole culture relaxes back into its cushions of myth.  The dynamics of cultural transmission are mysterious in the best of circumstances.  Is there really such a thing as cultural DNA?  Why does stale history lumber back to its feet sometimes but not always?  How do cultural myths ever get overturned, or swapped (which, at times, they do, at least partially)? 

But by scavenging through the junk heap of American culture Faludi does illustrate how many and various were the fantasies piled onto the ruins of Sept. 11.  Some of her tales are familiar but some are not.  I didn’t realize until I read her book, for example, that Karen Hughes, now the keeper of our nation’s “public diplomacy” franchise at the State Department, but then George W. Bush’s trusted counselor in the White House, declared on CNN before a 2004 anti-abortion demonstration that American opposition to abortion was “really the fundamental difference between us and the terror network we fight.”

Faludi reminds us of another weird demonization pattern.  Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bill Bennett, Ann Coulter and Camille Paglia agreed that (in Faludi’s words) “women’s liberation had ‘feminized’ our men and, in so doing, left the nation vulnerable to attack.”  One might have thought that George Bush’s ascendancy should have, as it were, stiffened our resolve, but no.  Apparently the manly mannerisms of Donald Rumsfeld did not emerge in time to stop Mohammad Atta, a man who seems to have been wigged out by women.

In the aftermath of the attacks, our rulers strutted and women needed not apply.  Female writers were even more absent than usual from the Op-Ed pages.  And isn’t it interesting that on the Sunday morning yackfests for seven weeks following Sept. 11, female appearances plunged by almost 40 percent, so that fewer than one in 10 of these anointed guests were women?  “Shunning,” Faludi calls this, although it is surely at least as much a tribute to the assumption that wartime is time for warrior expertise, which tends to collect in the hands of men.  Although the cause of women’s equality was momentarily chic (in Afghanistan), the actual war in Afghanistan swept it away.  Culture stood still until the moment when the hapless and unwitting Jessica Lynch could be drafted, as if by a casting call, to fill the role of victim-heroine for our time.

Toward the end of “The Terror Dream,” Faludi asks whether, instead of burrowing into historical fantasy, we can “live with insecurity, finding accommodation with—even drawing strength from—an awareness of vulnerability.”  Panic and paranoia on the one hand versus acceptance of insecurity on the other—these, she thinks, are the alternatives.  I wonder, though indeed it is hard to state the tertium quid

If she is right, I despair for our raw bipolar country, for the maturity she hopes for has never—at least never for long—been in the American vein.  I also cringe at the political implications.  Is the country ready for political leadership that takes terrorist dangers in stride?  It surely wasn’t ready when John Kerry counseled that we think of the jihadis as something less than a mortal threat.  If Hillary Clinton, say, were to promote a similar wisdom, Faludi would probably predict that she would be punished for breach of panic.  Meanwhile, in the wings, the preachers of warrior destiny and embattlement await their next round of oblivious power.

Todd Gitlin is a professor of journalism and sociology at Columbia University and the author of 12 books, of which the most recent is the just-published “The Bulldozer and the Big Tent: Blind Republicans, Lame Democrats, and the Recovery of American Ideals” (Wiley).

 


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By Lee, November 15, 2007 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

I have been visiting social websites, like http://www.truthdig.com/ , reading the articles, as well as comments which are posted by visitors to the site. I was astonished to discover how many anti-semitic and anti Israel postings there were. Some of the postings express extremely ugly bigotry. I know this website reflects an extreme left wing view, but I was surprised that the website didn’t censor much of the extreme hate mail. I can’t help but wonder if this new wave of anti-Semitism is simply the typical knee jerk prejudice which Jews have had to
endure throughout history ... or, a planned, concerted effort, via the internet, by Islamic radicals to use Jews and Israel as scape goats.

This phenomena is particularly puzzling, since Israel has consistently stood by America as our only true ally in the middle east ... while it’s Islamic neighbors have consistently produced anti American sentiment, including Palestinians who cheered in the streets after 911 ... terrorists who bombed the Marine barracks in Lebanon ... the attack on the American navy ship Cole ... etc., etc. ... plus Islamic bombings in Spain, England, Bali, etc., etc..
We always see television news footage of Islamic people burning our flag, marching over our flag, and burning Uncle Sam in effigy ... not to mention the teaching of hatred of Americans to children in madressas ... and kidnappings, beheadings, and death threats to western journalists and cartoonists.

Even if people are unhappy with our current administration, how can they ignore the fact that the United States and Israel are defending freedoms and rights which are forbidden by the Islamic countries. I can’t believe that Americans, who cherish our basic freedoms are defending countries who have outwardly proclaimed their
fanatic commitment to take away our freedoms, and replace them with sharia law. This irrational phenomena
leads me to conclude that the anti American and anti Israeli propaganda is being promoted by radical Islamists who are taking advantage of our free speech ( which they do not allow in their own countries) and using it against us. The radical Islamists lies that are being propagated include disinformation, plus efforts to rewrite
history, including denial of the holocaust.

If the radical Islamists prevail, they will not make a distinction between Jewish, and non Jewish Americans who supported their cause on these websites ... they will be happy to destroy both groups with equal relish. Let’s just hope that these misguided Americans, who are being duped into betraying our country and our principles, will see the truth, rather than follow their anti-Semitic hatred before it’s too late ... or we’re all doomed.

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By Ga, November 12, 2007 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

In his highly regard book, “The Sane Society,” Erich Fromm poses two extremely important questions:

“Are we sane?”

“Can a society be sick?”

In seeing both the actions of the Bush Administration and their backers and the citizenry who blindly follow them, and the words of the, as InheritTheWind calls them, tin-foil-hat-israel-conspiracists, the answers to those questions are:

“Not all of us.”

“Yes.”

Fools. Both camps are filled with ignorant fools.

Answer this one question, before speaking, “How much about the subject you are commenting on do you really know?”

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By Inherit The Wind, November 10, 2007 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

....and ANOTHER thread devolves into Israel-bashing and tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories.  How many posts is it since anyone mentioned Susan Faludi?

No wonder. If you believe the tin-foil-hat-israel-conspiracy about the WTC, then NOTHING Susan Faludi has to say is relevant or correct.  That’s because in your conspiracy fantasy, Bush&Co;were marionettes playing a part with strings pulled by the all-powerful mysterious demonic Mossad. 

Therefore Ms Faludi’s analysis of the behavior of the nation and our government is meaningless—it doesn’t fit the conspiracy fantasy.

And another thread devolves into crap.

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By Howard, November 10, 2007 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

#112692 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/10 at 12:19 am

That leads us to the M.East (West Asia + North Africa, actually) where Howard also misunderstands why the white European Jews there are so “filled with hate” - or their politicians are manipulating their electorate’s fears. It has something to do with the “unremitting desire of Israel to destroy most of the Arab-Muslim states” in a “Its them or us” frenzy - in their own words!
=============================================
=====================================

You mean Israel is ganging up on its neighbors again ?  What wacky quotes you put up !

Israel hasn’t destroyed or wants at all to destroy any state.  Wish I could say the Arab states don’t want to destroy Israel.  Don’t you read what they say?  Or know that rockets arrive daily from the Gaza strip?  Or see the threats from Hezbollah? A gov’t within a gov’t.  Talk about a group destroying a country like Lebanon, for example.

The obsession of the Muslim Arabs with Israel is totally irrational. To have Israel as an independent country in the middle of the Arab-Muslim world is utterly intolerable to them. That is the reason that, making allowance for the very cold peace with Egypt and the more recently concluded peace with Jordan, the 21 Arab states, among them the richest countries in the world, with a combined population of more than 200 million and with a land area greater than that of the U.S., have concentrated obsessive ferocity by military, economic, ideological, political, diplomatic, and any other means to destroy the tiny Jewish community of Palestine, and its successor, the Jewish state of Israel—only 7 million people, in a country just one-half the size of San Bernardino County in California.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 10, 2007 at 1:19 am Link to this comment

#112569 by Lee on 11/09 at 8:30 am: Dougie ...I’m sorry, but once again your arguement has descended into a ridiculous prejudiced rant…. your arguement ignores international acceptance of Israel’s
right to exist… Let’s justify the Irish bombing of London ... how about disputes in the former Yugoslavia ... or India and Pakistan over Kashmir…”

Yes, Lee, the Irish Sinn Fein’s Gerry Adams once did say that “you have a right to be angry” (in his thick brogue) if you ended up being killed by the IRA as a political gesture - after they had mistakenly shot some Australian tourists somewhere on the European continent.

But, they have had a right to bomb the English as much as they wanted to - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland “... plantations were based on mass confiscations of land from rebel Irish landowners and the subsequent importation of large numbers of settlers from England, Scotland and Wales….” and also the concomitant Scottish experience http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances “... forced displacements of the population of the Scottish Highlands in the eighteenth century….”

The people of Yugoslavia, both Christian and Moslem, well - they are steeped in history that you obviously don’t understand. But lets not get into “India and Pakistan over Kashmir” either. Its another TERROR originally created by the established states of the world as they rule over others by force, division and deception. They are the real terrorists…....

That leads us to the M.East (West Asia + North Africa, actually) where Howard also misunderstands why the white European Jews there are so “filled with hate” - or their politicians are manipulating their electorate’s fears. It has something to do with the “unremitting desire of Israel to destroy most of the Arab-Muslim states” in a “Its them or us” frenzy - in their own words!

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By John Borowski, November 9, 2007 at 1:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Let us assume you have a huge truck that goes in the fantasy woods. In about 5 years you will want to trade it in on a new vehicle because the gasoline is costing you somewhere between one hundred and five hundred dollars just for a fill-up each week. You can’t afford this because you are now paying for things that wear out in 5 years like mufflers, tires, etc. The only one that would want to buy a 5 year old truck that goes in the fantasy woods would most likely be a poor person.  Can this poor person want your truck that goes in the fantasy woods when he can’t afford a new one let alone gasoline, mufflers, tires, etc? Can he be able to put out one hundred to five hundred dollars a week just for gasoline? Will your truck that goes in the fantasy woods have any resale value? I can imagine a maker of horse drawn carriages felt the same way when Henry put out his first Tin Lizzy. (Only an old timer knows what a Tin Lizzy is) Let us say you are one of the Bush types that benefit from 5 dollars a gallon of gasoline. Can you imagine the wealth you would have if all those that fill-er-up each week in this round world has to pay out one hundred to five hundred dollars a week to you?

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By Lee, November 9, 2007 at 9:30 am Link to this comment

RE: #112461 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 6:16 pm

Dougie ...

I’m sorry, but once again your arguement has descended into a
ridiculous prejudiced rant.

First of all ... you seem incapable of making a distinction between a country
who is responding militarily, to protect it’s civilian population
from being murdered by terrorists VS. a country who murders over 6 million
people as a deliberate act of genocide ... not a surprising conclusion from a biggot ... not uhh ... Duh!

In addition ... your arguement ignores international acceptance of Israel’s
right to exist, which took place over a half a century ago! According to your
reasoning (if I can use that word) we should justify murder in cases where
national borders have changed. Hey Dougie, how about if we allow the American Indians to murder you in your sleep ... Let’s justify the Irish bombing of London ... how about disputes in the former Yugoslavia ... or India and Pakistan over Kashmir?

Take a look at how the borders have changed throughout Europe:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/europe/02/euro_borders/html/default.stm The borders have also continuously changed numerous times in every continent around the world.

Does this mean that murder should just continue by terrorists who maintain a claim to historical custody? How far back do we go? to the biblical custody?

The Answer is that we have to comply with the CURRENT International agreement regarding national borders ... otherwise the world would descend
into the chaos that you and the terrorists are trying to create.

Furthermore, although today’s fashionable politics has given radical Islam a break ... I’m confident radical Islam is a REAL threat to our freedoms, and our country ... so, you’d better hope that another 911 doesn’t happen ... or, an American city doesn’t get nuked ... or, history will post your name where it belongs ...

DOUGLAS CHALMERS
ADAM GADAHN
NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN
BENEDICT ARNOLD

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By Howard, November 8, 2007 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

RE:;  #112461 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 6:16 pm
  “Amazing how the Israeli Jews can do to others what the Nazis did to them - and then turn around and blame them for considering the Jews as enemies, uhh. This is the typical hpocritical act of the invader in smearing their victims.”
=======================================

What an abysmal comment.  You write as if you have no idea, I repeat, have no idea what the Nazis did to the Jews.

Lee is right about the madressas, and you act like one of the graduates.  Filled with hate.

The real cause of the never-ending turmoil in the Middle East is the unremitting desire of still most of the Arab-Muslim states to destroy Israel, their inability to come to terms with its very existence. That hatred and that intolerance are fueled by Arab-Muslim fanaticism and intransigence and unwillingness to accept diversity in the region. Only when that will be overcome can peace and tranquility finally come to the Middle East.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 8, 2007 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

#112356 by Lee on 11/08 at 8:47 am: “...

Upon reflecting on how ‘radical islamists’ sacrifice their own children to become suicide bombers ... as well as endoctrinating their children with hate in the madrassas ... It reminded me of this famous quote: “There won’t be peace in the middle east until the Arabs love their children more than they hate their enemies” - Golda Meir…”

Amazing how the Israeli Jews can do to others what the Nazis did to them - and then turn around and blame them for considering the Jews as enemies, uhh. This is the typical hpocritical act of the invader in smearing their victims.

#Quote #112392 by Nabih Ammari on 11/08 at 11:22 am: “...The late Israel Shahak,a survival of the holocaust who became a professor of organic chemistry at the Hebrew University in erusalem.While teaching organic chemistry he also published a monthly newsletter exposing the atrocities committed by the Israeli authorities and militant settlers against the real natives natives and owners of Palestine.A wonderful human-being who was full of compassion for the suffering Palestinians….”

Some survived the European Nazi/Jewish holocaust with their hearts intact. Others learnt the ways of their oppressors. Sadly, it was a training ground for both terrorism and sainthood.

People like Lee choose to support the Israeli terrorists and land-grabbers. They must have some guilt too deep within their own hearts. What a shame that you have aligned yourself with the bottom-feeders as a result of your “your lack of character”, Lee. You have revealed another side to your character far below the water line….....

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By Howard, November 8, 2007 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has asked for a full investigation of an incident in which Palestinian militants fired rockets at Israel from
a UN-run school in Gaza, the United Nations said on Thursday.

UN officials said the school in the town of Beit Hanoun run by the UNRWA agency, which aids Palestinian refugees, was empty at the time of last week’s incident after being evacuated because of an Israel Defense Forces incursion into Gaza.
The Secretary-General has asked that UNRWA fully investigate this incident,” UN spokeswoman Marie Okabe said at a news briefing.

“The Secretary-General condemns this abuse of UN facilities, which is a serious violation of the UN’s privileges and immunities,” Okabe said

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922055.html

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By Nabih Ammari, November 8, 2007 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To:112267 by cyrena on 11/08 at 1:31 am.
To:112385 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 4:07 am.


Your comments embodied in the above responses had(have)
been absolutely fascinating.I respect you and respect
your principled and disciplined stand on the human
rights issues much much more than I possibly can tell
you.You are both good persons whom I wish were my
personal friends and neighbors
The main problem with the individuals you addressed
the above responses to was the fact that they always
always always dealt with the symptoms of the conflict
instead of exploring the real causes of the conflict.
They are the ones who are very clearly bias,not you.
Because they are driven by dogmatic passion which
enslave them to the point
of controlling every word that
comes out from their mouths.They really cannot help
it because of too much ideological teaching and well
planned orientation since childhood.I have known the
types very well since my university years in the fifties and have concluded that it is a waste of time
to respond to their claims of myths they call “facts”
although I have the capacity,documents and knowledge
to prove that their “facts” are merely a bunch of
“MYTHS”.Therefore, I respectfully ask you to ignore
them and hope with me that their human conscience
may shake them up a little bit to become more truly
Jewish Americans and less and less ideologically
and passionately wrong as Israeli apologists and
Israeli propagandists.

Furthermore,I feel that I must be straight forward
with you and inform you that I differentiate strictly
between Jews and Zionists.I look at Jews exactly the
way I look at Christians,Muslims,Buddhists and Hindus
nothing more and nothing less.In other words,they are
a group of human-beings whose religion is Judaism.The
way I look at the Jews is totally positive.I wish I
could say the same about the Zionists.I simply could
not do so.Not just because of what they have done to
Palestinians but also because what they have done a great harm to Judaism as a religion by using it as a tool
for political expediency.That is the worst thing that
ever happened to Judaism.You need not take my word
for what I have just said.Ask the"Naturei Karta Jews”
and they will reconfirm what I have said.In spite of
my low opinion of Zionism and negative feeling about
Zionists as a whole,I do hold favorable views about
some of them including the following Israelis:

(1)The late Israel Shahak,a survival of the holocaust
who became a professor of organic chemistry at the
Hebrew University in Jerusalem.While teaching organic
chemistry he also published a monthly newsletter
exposing the atrocities committed by the Israeli
authorities and militant settlers against the real
natives natives and owners of Palestine.A wonderful
human-being who was full of compassion for the
suffering Palestinians.I followed his writing until
his death.

(2)Uri Avnery,a former member of the Israeli Knesset
[Parliament} and the former publisher of a publication called"Ha ulem Hazeh” which means “This
World”.I have admired his determination for meeting
with Mr.Yasser Arafat in spite of a government’s
directive prohibiting Israelis from meeting with any
members of Palestine Liberation Organization(PLO).In
fact, he met Arafat many times and eventually became
the Zionist friend of Arafat.He wrote a book and he
symbolically titled it “My Friend,the Enemy”.I do
recommend it to be read by Palestinians and Israelis
who care to establish better understanding of one
another and hopefully develop a degree of faith in
each other.
Sincerely,
Nabih Ammari
An Independent in Ohio

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By prosefights, November 8, 2007 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

We’re in the process of resuming work on a book on the US legal system and origins of the Iraq/Iran war.

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/trib/trib.html#scottoline

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By Lee, November 8, 2007 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

RE: #112349 by Howard on 11/08 at 8:18 am

RE:  #112285 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 4:07 am
RE:  #112267 by cyrena on 11/08 at 1:31 am

Howard ... Good point, and good distinctions ...

Upon reflecting on how ‘radical islamists’ sacrafice their own children to become suicide bombers ... as well as endoctrinating their children with hate in the madrassas ... It reminded me of this famous quote:

“There won’t be peace in the middle east until the Arabs love their children more than they hate their enemies”

- Golda Meir

Report this

By Lee, November 8, 2007 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

RE: #112285 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 4:07 am

Mr. Chalmers,

In America (and on Truthdig) when you publicly declare an opionated statement, you should be prepared to hear opposing points of view. That’s what democracy, the first Amendment, and free speech are all about. If you want to make opinionated public statements, without an opposing response, you should move to a totalitarian state that shares your point of view ... then you most assuredly won’t hear any opposition.

Also, when your arguments sink to a level of name calling, or signing your opponents name to public statements that YOU make, your comments become childish and dishonest ... and, you loose any credibility.

Before your comments today, I simply took you for an over opinionated anti Semitic malcontent ... but, you have revealed another side to your character ... or rather your lack of character ... you can dish it out, but you can’t take it! ...
a common trait in bullies, tyrants and dictators ... like the ones you always try to defend ... I guess water seeks it’s own level.

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By Howard, November 8, 2007 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

RE:  #112285 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/08 at 4:07 am
RE:  #112267 by cyrena on 11/08 at 1:31 am
“My MAJOR complaints of Israel are the horrific crimes against humanity that Israel has perpetrated for the past 60 years of it’s existance. Yes, that troubles me. It troubles me that Israel refuses to honor the same International laws and treaties that all other nations are obligated to honor. “
—————————————————————————————————-
—————————————————————————-

My major complaint is about anyone who would make a comment like the above.  Like who you label as commintting horrific crimes against humanity.

Do you mean like the rockets daily being launched every day by Hamas in Gaza against civilians?.  Or the sucide bombers going on purpose to kill shoppers in stores, teenagers in discotheques, celebrants at a bar mitzvah, a wedding, or a Passover Seder, or innocents riding in buses or other public transportation. The restraint of the Israelis in the face of never-ending provocation is almost unbelievable. What other country in the world would continue to suffer such sustained damage, such loss of life, without making every effort to eliminate its source?

The Israelis, always exercising much restraint, are often forced to respond to such violence in order to protect their civilian population and their installations and infrastructure. Ask yourself how many Palestinian civilians have intentionally been killed by the Israelis? The answer is zero, nobody! And then ask yourself, how many Israeli civilians have been intentionally targeted and killed by the Arabs during that same period. The answer is: all of them! Any Palestinian civilian killed by Israel is an unintended victim.

Any Palestinian civilian killed by Israel is an unintended victim.  Just as our troops in Irag go out of their way, I repeat, out of their way to avoid cvilian casualties.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 8, 2007 at 5:07 am Link to this comment

#112267 by cyrena on 11/08 at 1:31 am: “My MAJOR complaints of Israel are the horrific crimes against humanity that Israel has perpetrated for the past 60 years of it’s existance. Yes, that troubles me. It troubles me that Israel refuses to honor the same International laws and treaties that all other nations are obligated to honor…... And again, (though surely I’ve said this a million times)my BIAS against Israel is firmly rooted in it’s lawless behavior and it’s crimes against humanity….”

The AMERICAN Jews must choose - you’re either WITH the USA or FOR Israel!

The AMERICAN Jews must choose - “you’re either with us or against us”!

The AMERICAN Jews must choose - you’re FOR the American people OR for AIPAC!

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By cyrena, November 8, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

Howard,

Just for the sake of—-whatever—- why do we have to talk about Israel so much? I mean, both you and Lee have accused me of a continual bias, when in reality, my primary complaints about Israel are not up for argument. (I’m not speaking for anyone other than myself).

My MAJOR complaints of Israel are the horrific crimes against humanity that Israel has perpetrated for the past 60 years of it’s existance. Yes, that troubles me. It troubles me that Israel refuses to honor the same International laws and treaties that all other nations are obligated to honor.

And again, (though surely I’ve said this a million times)my BIAS against Israel is firmly rooted in it’s lawless behavior and it’s crimes against humanity. Genocide is never acceptable. Ethnic cleansing is never acceptable. The fact that Israel is armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons is not acceptable, because of course Israel will not sign the NPT, in order to act legally within the international community. And, since Israel has never honored the laws of the land, or displayed any respect for the International community, I know that I should not be surprised by this.

HOWEVER, this is and will always be of major concern to me, and that’s the bottom line. My opinion isn’t going to change until Israel changes, and starts following the rule of law.

Until then, I don’t give much of a damn about any of Israel’s alleged accomplishments. Do you wish to call that biased? You may. Just so that you know what my ‘bias’ is based on. It’s the same bias that I have toward any criminals, especially mass murderers.

THAT is the reason why nothing else you say about Israel..your facts, figures, statistics, or anything else, is of any relevance. Who much cares if mass murders have a computer in every home? I mean, do you get my point?

Who really cares how many of my tax dollars go back to the same contractors that are assisting in the mass murders? I mean, you and Lee may have nothing better to do than watch the grass grow, (at least in areas that haven’t been nuked by Israel) but at the end of the day, it’s all insignificant, as lond as Israel continues it’s crimes against humanity, and even a dime of my own money is spent to that end, as I watch my own country men and women do without the basics that all humans have a right to have.

So, while I’m very flattered that both you and lee pay such close attention to my postings, it’s obvious that you don’t pay enough attention, so just leave me out of your discussions. I’ve just confirmed everything that you need to know about my own position on Israel. It is NOT my position on American Jews, because they are NOT necessarily of the same mentality. In short, most of the American Jews that I know and admire share my own opinions on this.

So, carve this in stone, and use it as a template for what is my stated position on Israel, and spare me all of the rest.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 7, 2007 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

#112175 by Lee on 11/07 at 1:50 pm: “...please do not give people the mis-impression that I wrote something that was actually written by YOU ... by signing my name at the end of YOUR statement ... I’m referring to: “Ask not what your country can do for Israel, but rather ask what you can do for your country”, Lee….”

Are you attempting to give the impression that MY words could ever be attributed to you, Lee? There, I’ve done it again: did that look like a “signature” of YOURS???

You must know that you are an idiot, Lee (signed by “Lee”? - or not, ha ah, argh!)

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By Lee, November 7, 2007 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

RE: #112138 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/07 at 10:41 am

Mr. Chalmers,

I appreciate the lively debate between us, however please do not
give people the mis-impression that I wrote something that was
actually written by YOU ... by signing my name at the end of YOUR
statement ... I’m referring to:

“Ask not what your country can do for Israel, but rather ask what you can do for your country”, Lee.

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By Lee, November 7, 2007 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: #112138 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/07 at 10:41 am
(1098 comments total)

MR. CHALMERS,

I appreciate our lively debate ... however, I’d appreciate it if you did not give the miss-impression
that I made a quote, when it actually came from you.
I’m talking about:

“Ask not what your country can do for Israel, but rather ask what you can do for your country”, Lee.

Sincerely,

Lee

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By Howard, November 7, 2007 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

=============================
RE:  #112113 by Lee on 11/07 at 8:56 am
    RE:  #112111 by Lee on 11/07 at 8:47 am      
          RE:#112127 by Lee on 11/07 at 9:56 am
=================
Lee, 
      Right on the money, man.  Nice accurate writing.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 7, 2007 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

#112111 by Lee on 11/07 at 8:47 am

Re: #112071 by Howard on 11/07 at 3:59 am ... PART ONE ...

“...Howard ... if you noticed ... there are certain commentors, like cyrena, weather and Chalmers, who express a continuous bias…”


“Ask not what Israel can do for Palestine, but rather ask what Israel has done to Palestine”......

“Ask not what Israel can do for the USA, but rather ask what Israel has done to the M.East”......

“Ask not what your country can do for Israel, but rather ask what you can do for your country”, Lee.

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By Lee, November 7, 2007 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

#111491 by cyrena on 11/03
Bombings, beheadings, and the like. WHERE OR WHERE did those things occur? Everywhere the US was/is and had no right to be. Everywhere Israel was/is and has no right to be.
#111736 by weather on 11/05 at 5:50 am
(216 comments total)
lee:The firm and irrevocable truth remains. Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America.

WRONG !

Bangkok Post Breaking News
Rome (dpa) - Islamic terrorists planned to blow up a cathedral, two underground
stations and a police building in northern Italy, a court in Milan heard ...
http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=72745

Eye On The World: Spain: Islamic terrorist cell members sentenced
Italy: Muslim TV preacher tours northern cities · Afghanistan: ‘Key’ Taliban-allied
commander killed ... Palestinian Terrorists Want International Prosecut. ...
http://eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2007/10/spain-islamic-terrorist-cell-member...

WorldNetDaily: South Africa-Islamic terrorist connection
Ever since the Marxist African National Congress took control of South Africa in 1994, the nation has increasingly become a haven for Islamic terrorists, ...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24706

TERRORISM IN INDONESIA : Role of the Religious Organisations
“We know that the terrorists that operate in Indonesia are hiding behind the ...
Indonesia is the world’s most populous Muslim nation with 90 % Muslims and ...
http://www.saag.org/\papers16\paper1596.html

Blogs of War: Islamic Terrorists Behead Russian Diplomats
Video: Islamic Terrorists Behead Russian Diplomats - America at war blog Says:
August 15th, 2006 at 3:41 pm. […] I wasn’t going to post, or even link to, ...
http://www.blogsofwar.com/gallery/2006/06/25/islamic-terrorists-behead-russian-d...

BBC NEWS | UK | London bombings toll rises to 37
Mr Blair, who had returned to London from the G8 summit in Gleneagles, condemned
the terrorists and paid tribute to the stoicism and resilience of the ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4661059.stm

ETC. ...ETC. ... ETC. ...

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By Lee, November 7, 2007 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

Re: #112071 by Howard on 11/07 at 3:59 am   ... PART TWO ...

As I read the continuous criticisms of the U.S. and Israel written by these individuals, I can’t help but wonder what if any contributions these malcontents have ever made to this country? Or, are they just the type of people who enjoy the benefits of living here, while sitting on the side lines pointing their fingers at others who sacrifice to ensure their freedoms.

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By Lee, November 7, 2007 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

Re: #112071 by Howard on 11/07 at 3:59 am   ... PART ONE ...

Howard ... if you noticed ... there are certain commentors, like cyrena, weather and Chalmers, who express a continuous bias against Israel, as well as the United States. They don’t want to be bothered or confused with FACTS. Even though you provided an impressive and credible presentation of FACTS regarding the advantages of foreign aid to Israel vs. to other countries.  They simply respond with irrational personal prejudice.

I am a total proponent of FREE SPEECH ... so that even if I don’t agree with these three gentlemen, I support their right to have free speech ... unlike the countries they are perpetually defending. I don’t agree with many of the decisions of our current leaders, but I love and support this country ... the American people ... and, those who are putting their lives on the line to insure our unique American freedoms.

My grandparents legally immigrated to the United States. Although they had nothing, and had to struggle to survive, they kissed the American ground they walked on ... so greatly appreciating the freedoms and opportunities available to them here. With a sense of pride, and agreement with words like those of John F. Kennedy, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for your country”. My father and I both honorably served in the military. In an effort to serve our society, I also worked in rescue services ... teaching ... as well as participating in Amnesty International.

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By Howard, November 7, 2007 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

RE:  #112068 by cyrena on 11/07 at 3:25 am


Israel and Egypt are the two largest recipients of U.S. aid. For its“participation” in the Gulf War, Egypt was forgiven its indebtedness of $9 billion. Israel pays its bills. It receives about $2.8 billion every year. Of that amount, $2.0 billion is for military aid and $0.8 billion for economic aid. It’s fair to ask whether this is a good deal for the American taxpayer.

There is no other country in the Middle East except Israel that can be considered to have a stable government or populace friendly to the United States. There is much danger that any military aid to Arab countries, and military equipment given or sold to them, will suffer the same fate as the untold billions of dollars and priceless military secrets that were lost to our enemies in the debacle of Iran. Is Pakistan or Saudi Arabia more stable? Egypt? Jordan? Kuwait? Judge for yourself!

Only a fraction of the aid given stays in Israel. By far the largest share remains with American defense contractors. Peter McPherson, former administrator of the Agency for International Development, estimated that every billion dollars of aid to Israel creates 60,000 to 70,000 jobs in the United States.

Compared to the $2.0 billion yearly military aid to Israel, the U.S. contributes more than $130 billion(!) every year to the defense of Europe and more than $30 billion to the defense of Japan, Korea, and the Far East. Over 300,000 U.S. troops are stationed with NATO and over 30,000 U.S. troops in the Far East. In contrast, not one single U.S. soldier needs to be stationed and put at risk in Israel. U.S. military analysts estimate that the U.S. would have to spend the equivalent of $150 billion a year in the Middle East to maintain a force equivalent to Israel’s.

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By cyrena, November 7, 2007 at 4:25 am Link to this comment

#111884 by Howard

“...I did not realize there was something to ‘ win ‘.
Are these more appropriate ?”...

No Howard, They aren’t any more ‘appropriate’ than the first set of your comments about the accomplishments of Israel. In reality, why should any AMERICANS really give much of a damn about any of this? What does it have to do with anything at all, other than to give us a reason to be that much more pissed off about the billions of US taxpayer dollars that continue to flow to Israel? Based on all of your little statistics here, you might want to explain why Israel needs MY money.

So nope, none of this is ‘appropriate’, and neither are you.

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By Howard, November 6, 2007 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

RE #111876 by Douglas Chalmers on 11/06 at 12:56 am
Oh, not this again! You have already lost this argument in another thread, Howard…...

===========================================
I did not realize there was something to ’ win ‘.
Are these more appropriate ?

12. Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin — 109 per 10,000 people — as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed

13. In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the second largest number of startup companies after the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

14. With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration hi-tech companies in the world — apart from the Silicon Valley, US.

15. Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the US

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 6, 2007 at 1:56 am Link to this comment

#111860 by Howard on 11/05 at 8:38 pm
(165 comments total)

RE #111778 by weather on 11/05 at 10:08 am
Hate doesn’t motivate me at all, you simply hate what I say. Israel is dysfunction junction, you love it move there =========================

“...Wow, I can see you like Israel a lot.  Is this what you call dysfunctional…”

Oh, not this again! You have already lost this argument in another thread, Howard…...

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By Howard, November 5, 2007 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

RE #111778 by weather on 11/05 at 10:08 am
Hate doesn’t motivate me at all, you simply hate what I say.
Israel is dysfunction junction, you love it move there and fix it, NOT our problem! Israel’s made America very sick - still stuck in puckyballs of denial? Just take a look around.
=========================================
=========================
Wow, I can see you like Israel a lot.  Is this what you call dysfunctional ?

1. The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

2. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel

3. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel.

4. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

5. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

6. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D;facilities outside the US in Israel

7. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

8. According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry’s most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

9. Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined

10. Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita

11. Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world

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By steve johnson, November 5, 2007 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

MIKHAIL KRYZHANOVSKY - US PRESIDENT DE FACTO

                                Ladies and gentlemen ! Do you know that Mikhail Kryzhanovsky,
                                KGB superspy, the author of the “White House Special Handbook
                                or How to Rule the World in the 21st Century” is the US president
                                de facto ? Do you know that our great presidents, Clinton and now
                                - Bush, rule America in strict accordance to his instructions ?
                                  Open GOOGLE - great surprise for all of us !

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By weather, November 5, 2007 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

lee;Denial is your drug of choice.

Hate doesn’t motivate me at all, you simply hate what I say.
Israel is dysfunction junction, you love it move there and fix it, NOT our problem! Israel’s made America very sick - still stuck in puckyballs of denial? Just take a look around.

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By Lee, November 5, 2007 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

RE: #111736 by weather on 11/05 at 5:50 am
lee: The firm and irrevocable truth remains. Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America.

Weather .. The firm irrevocable truth remains. Before oil was accidently discovered in the middle east,  Islam, and the countries surrounding Israel were of little concern to most of the world.

... also, It was not Israel that brought radical Islam onto the U.S. and world stage, it was the Shaw of Iran being replaced by a theocracy and holding Americans hostage, the 1993 attempted world trade center bombing, 911,
Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, suicide bombings, bombings in England, Bali, Spain, etc., hezbolah kidnapping Israeli soldiers, the bombing of the Cole, the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, beheadings, threats to journalists and cartoonists, the murder of Theo Van Gogh, burning cars in France ... OPEC oil supply and prices, and the list goes on ....

So you see weather, once again your over simplistic way of venting your obvious personal hatred for Israel, by scapegoating, rather that having radical Islam take responsibility for its own actions, is just another weak attempt at revising history to further your own political agenda.

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By Lee, November 5, 2007 at 7:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: #111736 by weather on 11/05 at 5:50 am
lee: The firm and irrevocable truth remains. Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America.

Weather .. The firm irrevocable truth remains. Before oil was accidently discovered (ala Jed Clampet) Islam, and the countries surrounding Israel were
of little concern to most of the world.

... also, It was not Israel that brought radical Islam onto the world stage, it was
the Shaw of Iran being replaced by a theocracy and holding Americans hostage, the 1993 attempted world trade center bombing, 911, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, suicide bombings, bombings in England, Bali, Spain, etc., hezbolah kidnapping Israeli soldiers, the bomging of the Cole, the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, beheadings, threats to journalists and cartoonists, the murder of Theo Van Gogh, burning cars in France ... middle eastern oil supply, and the list goes on ....

So you see weather, once again your over simplistic way of venting your obvious personal hatred for Israel, by scapegoating, rather that having radical Islam take responsibility for its own actions, is just another weak attempt at revising history to further your own political agenda.

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By weather, November 5, 2007 at 6:50 am Link to this comment

lee:The firm and irrevocable truth remains. Before Israel, Islam was of little concern to America.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 4, 2007 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

#111689 by 911truthdotorg on 11/04 at 9:14 pm: “...Well, if the bush crime family hadn’t perpetrated 9/11 in the first place…”

Don’t forget the Wolfowitz connection…. search “Pearl Harbor Wolfowitz” - and his speech in June 2001 http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=363

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By 911truthdotorg, November 4, 2007 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

Well, if the bush crime family hadn’t perpetrated 9/11 in the first place, Todd Gitlin’s book would never have been written….along with ALL of bush’s other atrocities to this country and around the world.

9/11 was the catalyst needed to accomplish their New World Order agenda, of which Hillary, giuliani, etc are all a part of.

This article in Newsday sums it up perfectly….
finally, someone GETS IT!!

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-oppin305438091oct30,0,1024375.column

http://www.911truth.org

And check out this gem:
http://nlg.org/convention/2007 Resolutions/Impeachment resolution.pdf

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By Stand back from the Blowback, November 4, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

> Radical Islam’s gifts to America
> 911’ s murder of 3,000+ Americans

Wrong. Amazingly, the WTC was occupied by other people than just “Americans”. So make that 2900+.

Such navel gazing.

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By Nabih Ammari, November 4, 2007 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To:#111491 by cyrena on 11/03 at 8:34 pm
(1440 comments total)

I feel that I must tell you that you hit it so precisely
when you stated:

“In reality,the majority of the world 1.3 billion Muslims do not give a rat’s ass about what WE do,in OUR
country.It’s the killing and subjugating of THEM,in
THEIR own lands,that they highly object to.THOSE would be the “freedoms” that they hate us for”.

I could not have applied “The Principle Of Cause And
Effect” as well as you had(have) done in the above
comments.THANK YOU.

Please be informed that I am not a Muslim,although I
studied Islam for four years after which I had(have)
concluded that it was(is) a great religion ,indeed.
Perhaps,you may be interested to know that I am an
agnostic,although I was born to devout Greek Orthodox
parent and was raised as such till college years.The
irony of all of this is the fact my wife is a devout
Catholic and one of children is an ordained Protestant Minister.How do you figure such a
heterogeneous mixture?,I simply do not know.

Cynera,thank you again for your constructive comments
and obvious dedication to justice and fair play which
I surely admire.
Sincerely,
Nabih Ammari
An Independent in Ohio.

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By Lee, November 4, 2007 at 10:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In response to cyrenna #111491   PART TWO ...


Due to several recent missteps by our government, many have adopted the unfortunate, but fashionable practice of America bashing ... leading to a call for throwing out the baby along with the dirty bath water. After 911, there was no doubt throughout the world that the perpertrators were radical Islamists. In fact, they even came forward to assume credit for their foul deed. Most of the world supported the U.S. in hunting down the culprits in Afganistan. It wasn’t untill Bush invaded Iraq that the tide turned, giving life to conspiracy theories and attempts at historical revisionism by people like cyrena.
It’s interesting how America bashers, like cyrena choose to live here and partake in the opportunities and freedoms this great country provides. This point is further proven by the milllions who risk life and limb to come here and gain citizenship.

In addition to 911, indiscriminate violence by radical Islamists has reared it ugly head in countries such as Spain, England, and Bali ... just to mention a few.

“Historical revisionism” describes the process that attempts to rewrite history by minimizing, denying or simply ignoring essential facts. Perpetrators of such attempts to distort the historical record often use the term because it allows them to cloak their illegitimate activities with a phrase which has a legitimate meaning. Like holocaust deniers and in Mao’s communist China where attempts have been made to rewrite history for political self interest.


Perhaps the acts of violence have been perpetrated by a minority of extremist radical Muslims ... but, then where is the voice of indignation from the majority of “moderate” Muslims? Instead, we hear from angry voices like cyrena, who respond by denying that the events ever happened, or by blaming the victims, or by diverting attention and scapegoating ... continually pointing the finger at the U.S.A and Israel, as their constant drum beat.

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By Lee, November 4, 2007 at 10:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In response to cyrenna #111491   PART ONE ...

cyrena ... you accuse me of being ‘stepfordized’? You mean ‘brainwashed’? like where everyone is forced to think and believe a certain way? Perhaps even act, dress and speak a certain way?

This country that you and I live in is based upon personal freedom. A freedom which has allowed us individuality , innovation and remarkable progress. With freedom comes personal responsibility. Many people would rather relinquish their freedom to avoid personal responsibility. And, many would like to take our freedoms away from us. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilence. Personally, I would rather accept the responsibility that comes with freedom, than to return to the middle ages under the thumb of a theocracy.

Theocracy is a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler. For believers, theocracy is a form of government in which divine power governs an earthly human state, either in a personal incarnation or, more often, via religious institutional representatives (i.e.: a church), replacing or dominating civil government. Separation of church and state,  as written by Thomas Jefferson, is a political and legal doctrine which states that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent of one another. Individualism is not a recognizable feature of Islam; instead the collective will of the Muslim people is constantly emphasized. There is certainly no notion of individual rights, which developed in the West.

Sharia Law should be opposed for its imposition of theocracy over democracy, its abuse of human rights, its institutionalized discrimination, its denial of human dignity and individual autonomy, its punishment of alternative lifestyle choices, and for the severity of its punishments. The openly expressed desire for the restoration of a Caliphate from two-thirds of an important Muslim sample of Arab and non-Arab Islamic nations, representative of Muslims worldwide, should serve as a chilling wake-up call to those still in denial about the existential threat posed by the living, uniquely Islamic institution of jihad.
The Kor’an and Muslim jurisprudence call for jihad of the sword against any land not yet surrendered to the armies of Islam.

CONTINUED IN PART 2 ...

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 4, 2007 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

#111506 by P. T. on 11/03 at 10:56 pm: “...“I saw men freaking out quietly in a state of cognitive dissonance….”

This only a temporary state (having two conflicting thoughts at the same time) before the numbness of total thought control finally takes over, PT…....

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By P. T., November 3, 2007 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

“I saw men freaking out quietly in a state of cognitive dissonance.”


Their quiet was the dead giveaway.  If only they’d behave like Ann Coulter.

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By P. T., November 3, 2007 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

“A ‘unity’ government in the USA when martial law is declared - made up of both Republicans AND Democrats, uhh!”


I think I’d rather have the black helicopters.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 3, 2007 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

#111470 by P. T. on 11/03 at 5:47 pm: “...Which one of the conspiracy theories is correct?

A “unity” government in the USA when martial law is declared - made up of both Republicans AND Democrats, uhh!

Quote: “... in the wings, the preachers of warrior destiny and embattlement await their next round of oblivious power….”

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By cyrena, November 3, 2007 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

#111432 by Lee on 11/03 at 11:02 am

In response to weather “111350 ...

•  Radical Islam’s gifts to America
911’ s murder of 3,000+ Americans
beheading of Danny Perl and dozens of others
bombings and killings all over the world
intolerance of others religions and basic freedoms .
subjugation of their own people ...allies and spokesmen like weather..

Lee, no doubt you’ve been stepfordized as well. If only we COULD blame it all on ‘radical Islam’. Sorry, it just doesn’t wash, and we all know it. But, it’s certainly managed to grab the gullible hearts and minds of so many.

Ah yes, radical Islam…they hate us for “our freedoms” right? I think not, and that should have been everyone’s first clue. What freedoms do they hate us for? Our freedom to destroy and exploit any part of the globe that we see fit to destroy/exploit?

Bombings, beheadings, and the like. WHERE OR WHERE did those things occur? Everywhere the US was/is and had no right to be. Everywhere Israel was/is and has no right to be.

You flatter yourself with claiming that any other religion is ‘intolerant’ of another religion. In reality, the majority of the worlds’ 1.3 billion Muslims don’t give a rat’s ass about what WE do, in OUR country. It’s the killing and subjugating of THEM, in THEIR own lands, that they highly object to. THOSE would be the ‘freedoms” that they hate us for.

We know that 3000+ people died on 9/11, and we know that other Americans have died throughout the world, again…in places where we had no right to be.
What we DON’T know, (re: 9/11 attacks on our own soil) is who perpetrated those attacks. We know only that they occurred. There is absolutely NO proof that these attacks were perpetrated by “Radical Islam” and I don’t believe that they were.

That’s not to say that people from any part of the Middle East, (the bulk of them being Muslims) do not have ‘beefs’ with the U.S. But, it’s far less complicated than an intolerance to those of different faiths. So, if you really want to know WHY the attacks could have had any connection to Muslims, (radical or otherwise), you would do well to look beyond the myth of ‘radical Islam” and look more to the reality of US imperial/hegemonic intentions to rule the globe.

You would do well to look to the fact that huge populations within the Muslim community, and the Middle East, and World Wide, are tired of being oppressed and subjugated and genocided by the U.S. and Israel.

Again, there is no proof that “radical Islam” had anything to do with the events of 9/11. Proof that SHOULD be very easy to obtain, and yet, 6 years after the fact, we have only the Liars’ word to go on, that any “radical elements’ of Islam were involved.

That’s not to say that there aren’t other events we could look at, where American people, structures, and institutions have been targeted. But, don’t believe for a minute that it’s about religion, because you’d be fooling yourself. It’s far more basic than that. It’s about us being where we don’t belong, and supporting Israel in its crusade against an entire population of the Middle East.

So, we could indeed find some ‘reasons’ why we MAY have been attacked by a collection of Arabs on 9/11, and many scholars and journalists have studied these ‘reasons’. Still no proof though that – that is indeed who attacked us on that day. In short, it COULD have been, because…they DID have legitimate complaints. And indeed, a very tiny group of individual radicals had done it before. (1993). Still is no proof that they did it this time.

So, you’ll have to break these down, 1st, could a small bunch of radicals have done this, and why. That’s the first part. Then, the more important part will be…but DID they? And, if not them, WHO? Big job, but I’d leave the religious tolerance thing out of it, since that’s nothing more than a distraction, and a created one at that.

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By Burnet, November 3, 2007 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11 I observed no one reacting in the way that was eventually sold by the cheneybushmediacorporatocracy (revenge!). I did note that men reacted very differently from women. We women are accustomed to carrying a keen sense of our own vulnerability with us always; we reacted with equanimity and intelligence. I saw men freaking out quietly in a state of cognitive dissonance. They are terrified of their own vulnerability and work very hard to hide it from themselves. Hence their need for heroic myths. I believe this male fear also explains the disappearance of women from the talking head shows.

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By Amir, November 3, 2007 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bush-Blair-Cheney gang of Liers need to be prosecuted and brought in front of the International Criminal Court.
They spead lies, kill innocent civilians in their own countries (cfr Menendez in UK), ignore their needy, destabalize the government and instigate hatred. They are the merchants of death, the descendents of East India Company. The only difference is that the world has changed and one day, they will stand trial for their evil deeds.

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By P. T., November 3, 2007 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment

Which one of the conspiracy theories is correct?

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By Dan Uu Noel, November 3, 2007 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

Faludi may have written her book just in time. Not a month passes without more water piling up behind the dam of the 9/11 cover-up and more leaks coming from it…

Faludi is undoubtedly very intelligent and discerning. In the course of her investigation, she certainly bumped into dozens of disturbing important inconsistencies in the official 9/11 fairy tale. So she has no excuse not to expose it for the lie that it is.

In the next few decades, some post-graduate student may write a thesis on what made her decide to be an accomplice of the farce rather than a truth-seeker.

Love,

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By felicity, November 3, 2007 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

It’s so old this scare the peons into submission.  And, it obviously works, even in the land of the free and the home of the brave.  What brave.  Free?  Maybe yesterday.  Not today.

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By Lee, November 3, 2007 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In response to weather “111350 ...

Radical Islam’s gifts to America ...

911’ s murder of 3,000+ Americans ...
beheading of Danny Perl and dozens of others ...
bombings and killings all over the world ...
intolerance of others religions and basic freedoms ..
subjugation of their own people ... allies and spokesmen
like weather ... etc., etc., etc..

... and, constant recriminations towards Radical Islam’s
(and weather’s)
staunchest opponent, Israel.

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By Bill Blackolive, November 3, 2007 at 10:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, mebbe so, except 9/ll is inside work.

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By Bill Blackolive, November 3, 2007 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, whatever, except 9/ll is inside work.

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By weather, November 3, 2007 at 3:44 am Link to this comment

Israel’s gifts to America

Acrimony, angst and a inexhaustable supply of deceit all very carefully choreographed w/the fraudulent and phony energy of a Hollywood production.

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By Roy Rousseau, November 2, 2007 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Truthdig looses more credibility. It’s the ALLEGED terror attack until there is a criminal investigation and someone is charged. The FBI admits that it has no case against your Osama Bin Laden.

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By MaryinNC, November 2, 2007 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Could it be that the script was written and the actors (Rummy, Cheney, etc) played their assigned roles on 9/11 and thereafter. These actors are smart, devious, calculating and everything else, but they overestimated Iraq.
They had read the america people like a book and knew they would go along with whatever the Admin and MSM told us. 
My question has always been - How were they able to identify all 19 hijackers by name and photo within a few days?

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By Wolf Vorkian, November 2, 2007 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

“The enemy that hit us on September 11 was real,” Faludi writes.  “But our citizenry wasn’t asked to confront a real enemy.” Out of terror, American culture howled its way back into a territory that looked familiar.  “The arrest and prosecution of our antagonists seemed to be of only secondary concern.  Instead, we were enlisted in a symbolic war at home, a war to repair and restore our national myth of invincibility.” From this myth, “we dreamed ourselves into a penny-dreadful plot that had little to do with the actual world in which we must live.”

My god, someone who ‘get’s it’; what a rarity. I call this “myth of invincibility”, the John Wayne myth, my way of stating the same thing.

What is also incredible about this silly way Americans view themselves is that we haven’t won a war since beating Japan and then it took the 2 greatest terrorist acts in history to accomplish this. Most of the credit to defeating Hitler goes to the Red Army, not the Allies.

Korea, we damn near got shoved into the ocean by the Chinese hordes and would have if Mao hadn’t called his dogs off.

Vietnam? Remember Rambo fleeing off the US embassy in the helicopter photos?

Okay, we did show Granada how bad we are.

And now Iraq, another humiliation.

But myth trumps facts any day of the week. Plato pointed this out more than a couple thousands year ago in his Allegory of the Cave.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, November 2, 2007 at 6:36 am Link to this comment

Confucious say, “Writer with too much time on his hands will probably concoct and contrive, then write.”

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By Todd Gitlin, November 2, 2007 at 5:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

P. T.:  Faludi makes an argument about Jessica Lynch, but it’s too complex for me to summarize here.  You might say it’s too complex to be compelling, but it’s a serious effort to take account of the weird intricacies of the Lynch mythology.  She interviewed Lynch, btw.

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By P. T., November 1, 2007 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment

Jessica Lynch undermines Susan Faludi’s argument.  U.S. propaganda tried to make Lynch into some sort of American superwoman, who certainly can knock the stuffings out of any Arab man.  However, Lynch told the truth:  the American fighting woman was actually on her knees praying when she was captured.

Then, of course, there was Lynndie England and the rest of the Abu Ghraib gang, who showed that they at least could be tough with those who were under lock and key.

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By Douglas Chalmers, November 1, 2007 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

“The Terror Dream” is, among other things, a tract for the times against slovenly journalism, which is the means by which this culture decides not to think straight….”

Not only unable to “think straight” but not even able to talk straight with all the dubious pseudo-military jargon which has come along with it, uhh! That’s what you get from having a president as commander of the armed forces in a country on a permanent war-footing, whether real or imaginary.

And a ” bipolar country” indeed and so “breach of panic” will be the crime that is feared by Democrat politicians as those entranced (the majority) feel comfortable with their denial and refusal to accept the existence of their fears at their source - within themselves!

Who would have realized that all those “kidnapped damsels” in the past were actually desperately trying to get away from a culture of f#ckwit macho “strutting hunters”? Again, thinking women will have to find an imaginative way of freeing themselves - from nuclear annihilation!!!

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