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Milton Viorst on ‘The Israel Lobby’

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Posted on Oct 4, 2007
The Israel Lobby
israellobbybook.com

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The original article that inspired the book can be found on the London Review’s Web site.  The letters it provoked along with Mearsheimer and Walt’s reply are well worth reading.  The essay also prompted a response by, among others, Christopher Hitchens on Slate.  Some months later, the London Review of Books sponsored a debate at Cooper Union in New York City, which can be viewed here. Also, be sure to read this interview with the authors.

By Milton Viorst

About 30 or so years ago, when I first began to write of my concern that Israel was embarked on a course that would lead only to recurring wars, or perhaps worse, I received a letter from Abraham H. Foxman, then as now the voice of the Anti-Defamation League, admonishing me as a Jew not to wash our people’s dirty linen in public.  I still have it in my files.  His point, of course, was not whether the washing should be public or private; he did not offer an alternative laundry.  His objective was—and remains—to squelch anyone who is critical of Israel’s policies. 

In the ensuing years, Foxman and a legion of like-minded leaders, most but not all of them Jewish, have been remarkably successful in suppressing an open and frank debate on Israel’s course.  In view of Israel’s impact on America’s place in the world, it is astonishing how little discussion its role has generated.  As a practical matter, the subject has been taboo.  John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, professors of political science at the University of Chicago and Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, respectively, have challenged this taboo in their new book, “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.” Foxman, in an effort to discredit them, has written a rejoinder in his book “The Deadliest Lies: The Jewish Lobby and the Myth of Jewish Control.”


book cover


The Israel Lobby

By John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt


Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 496 pages


Buy the book

book cover


The Deadliest Lies

By Abraham H. Foxman


Palgrave Macmillanm, 256 pages


Buy the book



The controversy over Mearsheimer and Walt’s views has been going on since March of last year, when they first presented their argument in the London Review of Books.  In their essay, they contended that support of the magnitude that the United States gives Israel might have been justified during the Cold War but is not defensible, “on either strategic or moral grounds,” under the conditions that currently prevail in the Middle East.  America’s unconditional backing, they argued, is harmful to its own interests and possibly even to Israel’s, and it is made possible only by the influence of the Israel lobby over U.S. foreign policy.  The article touched a sensitive chord among many of Israel’s defenders, generating a furor.  Now Mearsheimer and Walt have written a book which, while more comprehensive at nearly 500 pages, recapitulates the original themes.  Foxman acknowledges basing his book-length reply on the article, so impatient was he to proclaim its authors guilty of “distortions, omissions and errors.”

The late social critic Irving Howe, deeply committed to Israel himself, used to argue that Jewish leaders like Foxman depend for their status on ceaselessly trumpeting the dangers faced by the Jewish people, and particularly by Israel, from a hostile world.  These leaders, Howe insisted, exploit the scars which inquisitions, pogroms and the Holocaust have left on the collective Jewish psyche, scars which distort Jewish political judgment.  Foxman is no doubt sincere in agonizing over the dangers that Jews have historically faced.  But Howe argued that these dangers had become a vested interest for the leaders of Jewish organizations, making an open and honest debate all but impossible in American Jewish circles and in America’s political culture generally. 

Foxman does not quite accuse Mearsheimer and Walt—though other disapproving critics do—of being anti-Semitic.  But he uses intimidating language nonetheless, pointing to a “level of quiet, subtle bigotry—an attitude that may not run to the actual hatred of Jews but that assumes that Jews are somehow different, less respectable, less honorable, more treacherous, more devious than other people. ... [I]t’s only natural that people who exhibit this kind of bias against Jews should look a little askance at the special relationship that exists between American Jews and the nation of Israel.”

One can admit the legitimacy of Foxman’s warnings on anti-Semitism and still ask for the evidence of “subtle bigotry” in the Mearsheimer-Walt text.  I found none, unless the reader accepts the premise that anti-Semitism is present in any scrutiny of relations between the U.S. government and American Jews, or the Israel lobby.  Foxman says the authors’ objective is to make Israel into a “pariah” state, though nothing that they write reveals such a goal.  On the contrary, Mearsheimer and Walt recognize lobbies—all lobbies—as a legitimate part of the American political system, existing to shape or shift policy in the interest of the various causes they serve.  Foxman, backed by quotes from such dubious authorities as Dennis Ross, an ex-U.S. ambassador and a vigorous defender of official Israeli views, seeks to attribute something sinister to their motives.

Without question, Mearsheimer and Walt have written less a work of political science than a brief for their position.  There is nothing wrong with that, as long as they maintain the standards of scholarship incumbent on their craft, which exhaustive footnotes of more than a hundred pages suggest strongly that they do.  Some of their critics, ill at ease with the charge of anti-Semitism or “subtle bigotry,” have accused them of being “unbalanced,” in omitting the sins of “the other side.” By their nature, briefs are not balanced, but in this case the accusation seems doubly contrived.  Assuming that the Palestinians or radical Muslims are “the other side,” the critics can scarcely claim that the literature is not already overflowing with negative evaluations, readily at hand in any library or bookstore.  The objective of Mearsheimer and Walt is to break new scholarly ground, which is what academics are supposed to do.  Their findings will come as no surprise to those familiar with American political institutions, but, judging by the reverberations of the Foxman line, they have ignited panic by daring to put so much of the available material on the public record.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 10, 2007 at 5:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Re Benjamin Franklin letter, I’ve been unable to locate it so have no opinion whether it represents colonial American thought, or if it even exists.

Google Benjamin Franklin and Jews...it’s called “The Prophecy”. The story behind it is that Charles Pinckney of South Carolina recorded it in his journal of the Constitutional Convention.  There was no official record as they wanted the proceedings secret, but Pinckney kept a journal.

Supposedly.

It is this journal’s entry that all the anti-semites and neo-nazis cite, and cite as “fact”.  But there’s a problem: Pinckney’s journal doesn’t exist.  He mentioned in a letter in the 1800’s, I believe to John Adams, but it has never been found.

Therefore the “citation” from it is impossible--it must be fraudulent.

It is also totally inconsistent with Franklin who founded an abolitionist society, was a Deist (not quite an Atheist but close), cited the Iroquois Nation Charter’s division of powers as a model for the Constitution, and once gave 5 pounds to help build a synagogue--when 5 pounds was a fortune.

Additionally, analysis of the language of “The Prophesy” is nothing like Franklin’s and uses words in ways he did not--like the use of “homeland”.  In fact, the language is the language of Nazi Germany in the 1930’s, translated into English.

Finally, “The Prophesy” has no provenance prior to 1933.  It is a crude, disgusting forgery concocted by the nazis to win over hate-filled ignorant fools.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 10, 2007 at 1:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m afraid the beast is showing itself again in typical guise.  And this indication of the facts makes me ‘a nazi’, eh, Wicher?  Typical.  Are you going to whistle up your fellow creatures Howard and ITW to help you suppress this comment?

...........

Nazi, eh, Wicher?

Yes, Butt-Catching, you are. 

“We are still here, watching you and yours, Wicher. Probably many others besides myself still have no love of hyenas.  We won’t just watch forever”

Where did you get that line, some cheap horror movie?

That crap doesn’t work any more.

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By Sepharad, October 10, 2007 at 1:09 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Agree with comment that while not in itself anti-Semitic, Mearsheimers & Walt always give each action and issue the darkest possible interpretation of Israel, Israel supporters and AIPAC.

Re Benjamin Franklin letter, I’ve been unable to locate it so have no opinion whether it represents colonial American thought, or if it even exists. However, did find in the city of Charleston’s charter a phrase declaring that the young town “welcomed all Jews and other heritics” to become citizens, perhaps implying that other colonies did not. 

Re Roger Cohen, I’ve never found his column anti-Israel. He disagrees with some of their policies (as do other Jews, including Israelis —one of the few true stereotypes about us is that we argue about our politics and our souls and the meaning of it all, far more than most non-Jews).

Re non-Jewish citizens in Israel, they are not treated as dhimmis (Arab term for truly second-class citizens, i.e., non-Moslems, who pay more taxes and have fewer rights). Arab Israelis vote, have representatives in the Knesset and MAY—but are not forced to—join IDF, which is compulsory for all Jews. The fact that so many Arab Israelis do join IDF says something about the way their feelings for Israel, but even more eloquent is the fact that when land for peace was being considered, and several Arab villages and their lands were proposed to become part of a Palestinian states, the Arab residents affected hotly rejected joining the nascent Palestinian nation. One Arab man shouted, in front of the Knesset, “We’re Israelis! You can’t trade us away!” So the government didn’t.

Re Iraq: Sharon advised Bush to NOT invade Iraq, because the WMDs had long since been moved to Syria, and because to do so would mess up the regional equilibrium. Many of us wished he had gone public with his objections but Sharon did not think he could afford to publicly criticize a major ally.

Re AIPAC’s influence in the U.S.: 1)There are 6 million Jews in the U.S. and 10 million Muslims, many of the latter having large large families and even larger fortunes; 2)Israel has not a drop of oil; 3) the Saudis are delightful best friends of the Bushes, Bechtel and even columnist Maureen Dowd, whose main squeeze was Prince Bandar Sultan while he was in town. As for intense supporters of Israel, spectacularly more of us are liberal inerventionists rather than neocons or religious right nutters. Shalom Aleichem.

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By Baldwin, October 10, 2007 at 8:47 am #
(2 comments total)

The review confused me a little, because it only talked about lobbying organizations.  Aren’t people within the government like Wolfowitz, Feith and Pearle considered part of the Israel lobby?  What about the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans I read so much about?  Don’t many of those government figures get support from AIPAC?  Now they have left government and gone to work for think-tanks again, covering their tracks.  The reviewer made no mention of this kind of cross-pollination between government officials and groups such as AIPAC.  It is not just these organizations and lobbying, it is the people they support who become part of the government.  As I see it, these Likudniks (the term I prefer to neocon or zionist) served as willing enablers for Bush and Cheney’s imperialism and thievery.  I can’t stand Netanyahu and co., I’ll say that without embarrassment.  I preferred Sharon, if you can believe that - he seemed to be practical, if not moral.

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By Baldwin, October 10, 2007 at 8:40 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The review confused me a little, because it only talked about lobbying organizations.  Aren’t people within the government like Wolfowitz, Feith and Pearle considered part of the Israel lobby?  What about the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans I read so much about?  Don’t many of those government figures get support from AIPAC?  The reviewer made no mention of this kind of cross-pollination between government officials and groups such as AIPAC.  It is not just these organizations and lobbying, it is the people they support who become part of the government.  As I see it, these Likudniks (the term I like best) served as willing enablers for Bush and Cheney’s imperialism and thievery.  I can’t stand Netanyahu, I’ll say that without embarrassment. Down with Likud!

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By Inherit The Wind, October 10, 2007 at 7:55 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Tony Wicher on 10/09 at 7:05 pm
(261 comments total)

#105864 by Inherit The Wind on 10/09 at 3:25 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Tony, I was with you up to the bolded sentence.  In every age there’s ALWAYS an excuse for anti-semitism...this is just the latest.”

It’s the latest excuse, all right, but Israel is GIVING anti-Semites that excuse by its policy of ethnic cleansing, which the whole state of Israel is founded on. The only way to stop the growth of this cancer of anti-Semitism is to change this policy.

Read Viorst’s article again.  MOST American Jews (and I believe most Jews world-wide) detest the Likudists and the horrible mess they’ve made of things.  They are no better than the Moslem fundies in the Arab world or the Christian fundies (a la Pat Robertson here).  Most want peace, a decent, fair negotiated peace.  It’s come close a few times--the last, best time, a Likudist shithead named Ygl Emir murdered Rabin…

See, if a peace can be negotiated that BOTH sides agree to and live with, then 242 becomes moot.  It’s clear Israel will never comply with 242 100%. 90%, maybe, but 100%, not realistic unless Israel is flat-out conquered.  So “242” becomes the banner to avoid REAL negotiations just like the “Line Item Veto” and the “Balanced Budget Amendment” were the Re-thuglicans way to avoid REAL fiscal responsibility and controls in the 80’s.

Yet if there’s a negotiated settlement that both can live with, then they all can live and prosper.  Between the excesses and atrocities from both sides’ war-parties, it will be a long time before trust builds up enough for decent people to work together again, as they once did.  But it can.  There’s too much profit to be made by both from the efficiencies of trade.

But the Israeli middle is just as scared of the Likud Right as the Democrats in Congress are scared of the GOP and Bush...Both are exhibiting genetic spinelessness that prevents them acting in their nation’s BEST INTERESTS!

But as long as the Likudists keep yammering about a “Greater Israel” and “God’s Mandate” and the Hamas keeps yammering for ALL of Palestine, and NEITHER side shuts the yammerers up and shuts down their influence, the state of war will continue.

This is implicit in Viorst’s article and is his criticism of the book.

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 7:37 am #
(641 comments total)

Pre-Packaged Opinions on Israel and Palestine
Jeffrey Goldberg’s Prison

By NORMAN FINKELSTEIN 10/6/07

“Goldberg also alludes to Israeli prisons which had a meaner reputation than Ketziot such as Dahariya and Gaza Beach camp (Ansar Two). It is instructive to juxtapose Goldberg’s description of Gaza Beach camp (Rafiq had been held there before Ketziot) with that of an Israeli journalist, Ari Shavit, who served there:

Goldberg: Here is where young Palestinians were assimilated into the apparatus of occupation, where the Shabak extracted from the Arabs what they could and then trucked them to the desert. The policy of Ansar Two was consistent: Prisoners being prepped for interrogation were made to stand on the basketball court under the sun for four, or five, or six hours. They were forced to raise their arms, and they were not allowed to sit, or drink. When Rafiq’s arms dropped from exhaustion, he was struck.Rafiq was smacked around a bit [during interrogation].

Shavit: Most Palestinians are awaiting trial; most were arrested because they were throwing stones or were said to be members of illegal organizations. Many are in their teens. Among them, here and there, are some boys who are small and appear to be very young.The prison has twelve guard towers. Some Israeli soldiers are struck--and deeply shaken--by the similarity between these and certain other towers, about which they have learned at school. The unjust analogy with those other camps of fifty years ago won’t ago away.And I, too, who have always abhorred this analogy, who have always argued bitterly with anyone who so much as hints at it, I can no longer stop myself. The associations are too strong.Like a believer whose faith is cracking, I go over and over again in my mind the long list of arguments, the list of differences.But then I realize that the problem is not in the similarity-for no one can seriously think that there is a real similarity-but that there isn’t enough lack of similarity. The problem is that the lack of similarity isn’t strong enough to silence once and for all the evil echoes, the accusing images. Maybe the Shin Bet [Shabak] is to blame for this--for the arrests it makes and what it does to those arrested. For almost every night, after it has managed, in its interrogations, to “break” a certain number of young men, the Shin Bet delivers to the [soldiers] a list with the names of the friends of the young men. Then the soldiers go out almost every night to the city and come back with children of fifteen or sixteen years of age. The children grit their teeth. Their eyes bulge from their sockets. In not a few cases they have already been beaten.And soldiers crowd together in the “reception room” to look at them when they undress. To look at them in their underwear, to look at them as they tremble with fear. And sometimes they kick them--one kick more, before they put on their new prison clothes....Or maybe the doctor is to blame.

You wake him up in the middle of the night to treat one of those just brought in--a young man, barefoot, wounded, who looks as if he’s having an epileptic fit, who tells you that they beat him just now on the back and the stomach and over the heart. There are ugly red marks all over his body. The doctor turns to the young man and shouts at him. In a loud, raging voice he says: May you die! And then he turns to me with a laugh: May they all die! Or maybe the screams are to blame. At the end of the watch, you sometimes hear horrible screams from the other side of the fence of the interrogation section,hair-raising human screams. Literally hair-raising.In Gaza our General Security Services [Shabak] therefore amount to a Secret Police, our internment facilities are cleanly run Gulags. Our soldiers are jailers, our interrogators torturers. In Gaza it’s all straightforward and clear. There’s no place to hide.

http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein10062007.html

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By Flakcatcher, October 10, 2007 at 12:00 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Wicher

“In fact, it is the goal of these nazis to OVERWHELM your site with their posts and limit EVERYONE ELSE’S right of freedom of speech.”

Impartial observers of Truthdigg may care to note the number of entries by Wicher on this thread alone, and he has the gall to talk of others of opinion other than his who ‘OVERWHELM’ and limit . . . well, you read the lie.  His squeal of erzats hurt and justified protest should also be duly appreciated.  And he dare in the same breath mention ‘freedom of speech’.  Chutzpah unlimited.  But then this is probably his profession.

I’m afraid the beast is showing itself again in typical guise.  And this indication of the facts makes me ‘a nazi’, eh, Wicher?  Typical.  Are you going to whistle up your fellow creatures Howard and ITW to help you suppress this comment?

We are still here, watching you and yours, Wicher. Probably many others besides myself still have no love of hyenas.  And we won’t just watch forever.

Perpetrated by any who do not control all our media, buy our politicians, impoverish us by the infliction of financial manipulation and render our populations morons via controling our defenseless infants’ education and said media, the lobby and its influence would be deemed an unprovoked criminal act of international aggression.

Well, since it is germane, I deem the activity of the lobby and its influence an unprovoked act of criminal international aggression.  Considering the facts and reviewing the abysmal state of the world resulting from the lobby’s insidious activities, I imagine I am not alone in this.

Nazi, eh, Wicher?

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By cyrena, October 9, 2007 at 9:47 pm #
(4164 comments total)

#105913 by cyrena on 10/09 at 9:44 pm
(1202 comments total)

#105899 by Tony Wicher

Me too Tony. Still a dem, always been a dem, and always issue, never candidate oriented. That’s why I’m now decided on Kucinich. (Gravel or Thompson would do as well)

(I started out with very high hopes for Barack, and I still have them). But for now, I can only support a candidate who will stop the rape of the Middle East, and bring us back to the rule of law, and at least address the reality of where we’re at now, which is a dictatorship, and the Constitution has been totally trashed.

ANY candidate who cannot, or will not address those issues, and promise to end this horrific crimes that have been perpetrated against us, and against the rest of the world, I simply cannot consider.

There’s still time for them to address these things, (and I even sent a letter to Obama, suggesting that he should). But, here again, the political gaming required in the way our system is set up, doesn’t allow him, (or any of them I guess) to be honest.

I guess that’s why I’d never make it as a politician.
Bullshit has to be their stock in trade. And, in better times, that was OK.

But now...there’s no time for that. There’s work to be done, and somebody has to get out there and say that they will do it. Not a single repug will, and so far, Kucinich, Gravel, and Thompson are the only ones who have indicated that they will address this most important issue.

We know that Hillary is perfectly OK with the plan (as it was in the beginning) to permanently occupy Iraq, and she’s apparently in agreement with Cheney for a full-speed ahead attack on Iran.

This is why I cannot consider any of them. If you find out that any of those three have changed their tunes, let me know. (Biden is a no-go as well, since he’s already in full motion plans for the same set-up for Iraq, that Israel has hooked-up during the past 60 years for the illegally occupied terrorites of Palestine).

For now, Kucinich, Gravel, and Thompson are still dems, right?

I’m voting for one of them, (probably Kucinich) even if it allegedly dilutes my vote. After the primaries, we’ll see.

Meantime, I’m still getting the rest of the gang prepared for what might be a necessary emmigration.

(I just posted this same thing on another, -the wrong- thread.) I don’t think I’m crazy, (yet) but in case anyone is wondering, why they see it twice...that’s why.)

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By Tony Wicher, October 9, 2007 at 7:32 pm #
(781 comments total)

Re #105887 by cyrena on 10/09 at 6:27 pm

I’m still a Democrat. It’s the only game in town. In this campaign I’m issue-oriented, not candidate-oriented. I just do everything I can to move the debate in the right direction.

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By Tony Wicher, October 9, 2007 at 7:05 pm #
(781 comments total)

#105864 by Inherit The Wind on 10/09 at 3:25 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Tony, I was with you up to the bolded sentence.  In every age there’s ALWAYS an excuse for anti-semitism...this is just the latest.”

It’s the latest excuse, all right, but Israel is GIVING anti-Semites that excuse by its policy of ethnic cleansing, which the whole state of Israel is founded on. The only way to stop the growth of this cancer of anti-Semitism is to change this policy.

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By cyrena, October 9, 2007 at 6:27 pm #
(4164 comments total)

#105861 by Tony Wicher

TONY,

Thanks for this info. I guess I’m not even impressed that Obama and Edwards have decided to catch-on. Obama should have been there to vote. He wasn’t. Edwards didn’t have a vote. So...more gadfly there.

Obama loses some points for even claiming that the Iranian Revolutionary Force should be designated a terror organization, (I don’t know what the hell he’s thinking these days) and well...Hillary, what did we really expect?

All three of them lost any further consideration from me, when they couldn’t commit to ending the occupation by 2013.

Hurray for Gravel. I’m putting my money on Kucinich, and hoping he’ll pick some good help. Barack may get better with some more time and experience under his belt, but it could also go the other way. US politics is SOOO corrupting.

At least all of the kids and extended family have their passports up to date. I’m the only one who needs to get her act together.

I have images in my mind of making sure that I get everyone else to safer shores, only to find myself left behind, like some old story from the earlier centuries. I know, sounds like theatrics, except that it’s all too real.

Anyway, thanks for the update.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 9, 2007 at 3:25 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

The lesson for many people, especially young and politically inexperienced people, is that there is such a thing as anti-Semitism, that it is widespread and growing, and that Jewish conerns about this are entirely valid. However, this does not make criticisms of Israel and Zionism on human rights grounds any less valid, and in fact the validity of these reasons are ultimately the cause of the spread of anti-Semitism.

Tony, I was with you up to the bolded sentence.  In every age there’s ALWAYS an excuse for anti-semitism...this is just the latest.

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By Tony Wicher, October 9, 2007 at 2:38 pm #
(781 comments total)

Re #105806 by cyrena on 10/09 at 9:52 am
(1195 comments total)

“Will the coming Clinton Administration do this?

Tony, this is a great piece, and a great question. I don’t have the answer, but I’d have to guess…NO! Now, if we look back on the first Clinton, he DID try to work something out. (with maybe getting Israel to finally recognize International Law, and stop violating it). But at the end of the day, it never happened, and they continue to perpetrate massive Human Right’s violations against an ever increasing number of people. “
==================================================
Cyrena,

Here is some information that throws some light on this question. This is from the Mike Gravel site:

--------------------------------------
GRAVEL LEADS, OBAMA AND EDWARDS FOLLOW
IN CRITICIZING CLINTON IRAN VOTE
It started with Democratic Presidential Candidate Mike Gravel criticizing Senator Hillary Clinton on live TV. Now, two other candidates are catching on. John Edwards and Barack Obama have both followed Gravel’s lead, making statements that criticize Clinton’s controversial vote on a measure which gives President George W. Bush the cover to attack Iran.

At the September 26 Democratic debate in Hanover, N.H., Gravel first raised the issue, calling the Kyl-Lieberman amendment (S. Amdt. 3017) “a fig leaf to let George Bush go to war with Iran.” The Senator went on to say, “I’m ashamed of you, Hillary, for voting for it. You’re not going to get another shot at this.” You can watch an excerpt of that debate here.

Since then, Edwards and Obama have made similar statements.

While Obama told AP he sees “nothing wrong with identifying the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization,” he admits that the vote “could potentially lead to military action in Iran.” You can read more about that in today’s Union Leader.

Obama was absent the day the vote was cast in the Senate. As a result, he could not vote on it.

Edwards, who calls his vote authorizing the Iraq War a “mistake,” followed Gravel in congratulating Senators Chris Dodd and Joe Biden for voting against the resolution”
-------------------------------
So why did Clinton vote for Kyl-Lieberman when none of the other Democratic candidates did? When told by Gravel that she should be ashamed of herself for voting for it, all she did was give him a horse laugh. What an insult! Now every Democratic presidential candidate has joined in condemning her vote. If Bush does strike Iran, it will hang around her neck like political death. And why, I ask again, did she do it? I will tell you what I think. She did it because Dershowitz, AIPAC and the Israel lobby told her to. Gravel isn’t going to be President and has nothing to lose by saying it in the next debate. For that he would deserve the national gadfly award. Maybe Edwards, Obama, Biden, Dodd etc. will all chime in and agree with him. Mission accomplished. Grip of Israel Lobby broken. U.S.-Israel alliance being rationally debated at highest levels.

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By Robert, October 9, 2007 at 2:19 pm #
(641 comments total)

Mohammed al-Dura lives on

07/10/2007 By Gideon Levy

The concern Israel demonstrates for the fate of one Palestinian boy touches the heart: Again, note what a fuss is being made about the case of the killing of Mohammed al-Dura. Our heart is impervious to the fate of other children who have been killed.

All of these are tasteless questions designed to divert attention from the truly important issues: According to data collected by human rights group B’Tselem, Israel is responsible for killing more than 850 Palestinian children and teenagers since al-Dura was killed, including 92 in the past year alone. Last October, we killed 31 children in Gaza. This is what should have raised a storm and not the measurements by the former head of the Israel Defense Forces’ Southern Command.

Al-Dura refuses to step down from the stage because he has become an icon of the Palestinian struggle and a symbol of Israeli brutality. A thousand Nahum Shahafs will not succeed in blurring the unequivocal fact that a scandalous killing of children is taking place in the territories.

Even if the director of the Government Press Office, Danny Seaman, is right in determining that the film made by the reliable and experienced French journalist Charles Enderlin was “staged,” and even if he succeeds in clearing Israel from responsibility for this killing, what will we say about the other children who have been killed? That their killing was also “staged?” That the IDF did not kill them through carelessness and contempt for their lives; by being trigger-happy and even acting with premeditation? If Israel were really interested in improving its “public relations,” it would embrace the al-Dura family instead of all the foolish investigations. It would provide compensation to the family and show the world that it is truly and sincerely sorry about the death of one child.

The question of who killed al-Dura is like the question of what Joseph Trumpeldor mumbled before his death. The myth in both cases is already stronger than any investigation. Al-Dura became a symbol because his killing was documented on videotape. All the other hundreds of children were killed without cameras present, so no one is interested in their fate. If there had been a camera in Bushara Barjis’ room in the Jenin refugee camp while she was studying for a pre-matriculation test, we would have a film showing an IDF sniper firing a bullet at her head. If there had been a photographer near Jamal Jabaji from the Askar camp, we would see soldiers emerging from an armored jeep and aiming their weapons at the head of a child who threw stones at them. But these children did not become symbols; there are no stamps bearing their portraits, no streets named after them and no songs composed for them as with al-Dura because they were not filmed at the time of their deaths.

Al-Dura became a symbol because every struggle needs a symbol, a shrine for the masses of dead and the anonymous heroes. The assumption that the IDF soldiers firing at Palestinians at the Netzarim junction killed the boy cradled in his father’s arms exactly seven years ago is the most reasonable one. As far as we can remember, there has been no other case in which Palestinians fired at the IDF and hit a Palestinian child.

But even if there is some doubt, it is certain that the IDF has killed and is killing children. So this ridiculous focus on who killed al-Dura, a question that will never be resolved, is no more than a tempest in a putrid teapot. There should be a tempest, a great and mighty one, but one focused on an entirely different issue: Why is the IDF continuing to kill children at such a frightening pace, and why doesn’t Israel take responsibility for this and compensate the families of those killed? But no one is conducting “investigations” about this.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11& ar=1253

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By Tony Wicher, October 9, 2007 at 12:38 pm #
(781 comments total)

Re #105636 by Inherit The Wind on 10/08 at 8:15 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Stormtrooper69 is spamming Truthdig with Nazi propaganda and lies.  EVERYTHING he has posted is a pure total falsehood, totally undocumentable.  Much if it is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to historical fact and documentation. 

Truthdig: You are allowing your site to become enveloped and sucked in to the White-supremacist, neo-nazi, nazi and KKK world, by allowing posters like “Stockman72”.  Barring people from brazenly posting falsehoods, forgeries and unsubstantiated slander is NOT a limit on freedom of speech.

In fact, it is the goal of these nazis to OVERWHELM your site with their posts and limit EVERYONE ELSE’S right of freedom of speech. You need to stop them--you’ve done it before.”
=====================================================
ITW,

I appreciate your research on the Benjamin Franklin smear. Thanks. 

I think it’s hard for a monitor to make a determination on these matters. Perhaps the best we can do is take matters into our own hands, identify the nazi sympathizers and quarantine them for the purpose of discussion. So far on this thread we have Stockman72 and Greg Bacon smearing away for all they are worth. We can ignore them, or make them an object lesson. The lesson for many people, especially young and politically inexperienced people, is that there is such a thing as anti-Semitism, that it is widespread and growing, and that Jewish conerns about this are entirely valid. However, this does not make criticisms of Israel and Zionism on human rights grounds any less valid, and in fact the validity of these reasons are ultimately the cause of the spread of anti-Semitism. After WWII anti-Semites were considered the scum of the earth by the entire world, but Israel and the Israel lobby has been trading on this to accomplish their political objectives, and they have thus descrated the memory of the martyrs of the Holocaust, vitiated its memory and begun to make anti-Semitism respectable again.

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By CJ, October 9, 2007 at 11:45 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Excellent review by Viorst, but for the following. And indeed answer to the question why AIPAC is so influential does remain something of a mystery. Viorst:

“Perhaps the answer has something to do with America’s being the most religious, the most Christian, the most church-going society in the Western world. Once upon a time, deeply held Christian faith could be taken as a measure of hostility to Jews; that certainly is the case no longer. If anything, American Christianity—led by but not exclusive to evangelicals—seems to take the biblical promise of a homeland for the Jews as a test of its beliefs and a commitment of its own. This commitment goes beyond guaranteeing Israel’s existence. It provides a body of sympathy for Israel’s hard line, and for the economic aid and weaponry that the United States dispatches to support it.”

This might be one answer, though I’m somewhat skeptical, since American Christianity isn’t really led much at all by evangelicals, albeit they are certainly the noisiest of American Christians, sounding as though they’re leaders, and no doubt influencing policy when the president is himself an evangelical. But AIPAC’s been around a long time. And there are millions of Catholics and other Protestants with no such insistent investment in continuation of a Jewish state. And as Viorst writes himself, it’s no longer the case that deeply held Christian faith can be taken as a measure of hostility to Jews, if indeed that ever was the case, say, among average Catholics, though it very likely was true among Catholic (and Protestant) hierarchy.

I think one could argue that one reason for AIPAC’s “mysterious” influence might have more to do with Americans’–not just Christian Americans’–fear of, thus hatred for, Arabs. This particular fear and loathing well and long entrenched in the American psyche. (Fisk notes in his book that no less than Steinbeck referred to Arabs as the filthiest people in the world.) Israel might be viewed by Americans (if less so by Europeans) as a kind of bastion of civilization in what is otherwise and still covertly, if not longer quite so overtly, believed a “savage” Middle East mostly populated by “murderous” Arabs.

Obviously, this fear and loathing of Arabs is racist by any name, indeed a racism that continues unacknowledged, thus largely unabated, in America. Akin to the racism shown Native Americans upon the “discovery” by Europeans of the “New” World. When they too were deemed savages, incapable of (seriously murderous) European “civilization.”

And despite ongoing anti-Semitism on the part of many, Jews who did emigrate did so ALSO as “civilized” Europeans, many emerging from what even after the savagery of WWII was still believed more civilized Europe.

Then there’s the possibility of an on-going guilt-complex stemming from refusal to allow Jews trying to escape the Holocaust to land on American shores during the war. This idea of a complex fits to some degree with Viorst’s citation of Irving Howe’s, wherein Howe wrote of manipulation of the Jewish psyche, and then: “But Howe argued that these dangers had become a vested interest for the leaders of Jewish organizations, making an open and honest debate all but impossible in American Jewish circles and in America’s political culture generally.”

Quite right Howe was, and remains, particularly regarding that last part. Anti-Arabism in the form of racism combined with what Howe wrote of regarding manipulation of Jewish psyche might constitute the real reason AIPAC continues to be so influential among American people, thus also among American Politicians who to some degree still have to concern themselves with garnering votes enough to maintain office.

Well, that and the fact that power tends to hold sway most everywhere, regardless of national, religious or ethnic identity/affiliation.

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By Robert, October 9, 2007 at 10:43 am #
(641 comments total)

Comment #105799 by Greg Bacon on 10/9
Greg, don’t worry about this fanatic zionist zealot “Heckler Howard”.
====
We were there: Returning from Palestine through Israel

02.08.2006
by Caroline and Nathan Finkelstein (Switzerland)

“A Swiss civil delegation, made up architects and archaeologists, was in Israel and Palestine from 18 June to 2 July 2006 to examine archaeological sites and buildings dating from the Ottoman Empire and to evaluate the damage created by time and the conflict. As we were interested in the events in this region, we asked to join them. We returned from Palestine, astounded by what is happening and, especially, by the lack of action of the international community against the humane catastrophe being perpetrated there, which the recent events in Lebanon and in Palestine certainly confirm.”

“We also observed the attitude of the settlers installed in the old town of Jerusalem. The settlers, who occupy the upper floors of old houses that they obtained by badgering the inhabitants of Palestinian origin, to such a point that they ended up selling their home and leaving, continue to harass the occupants of the lower floors, with the same objective, by throwing their garbage into the lower courtyards. Certain inhabitants, who do not want to leave their home, because it is their manner of resisting, string nets over the top of their courtyards so that the garbage or other objects, for example empty gas bottles, do not injure their children. A passage over the roofs of these houses was even built by a European government to make it possible for the settlers to cross the Arab neighbourhoods when going to the synagogue. A tower, manned with Israeli soldiers, was installed to ensure their safety and to prevent the Arab population from venturing there.”

“Wherever we went, be it Hebron, Ramallah or Nablus, we were very impressed by the effectiveness and the steadfastness of the inhabitants to continue to rebuild, to restore, and to renovate. The goal of the local architects and the archaeologists is to help the people by creating schools, outdoor centres, apprentice workshops and music centres. The inhabitants, especially the children, are very active in everything associated with the conservation of their heritage. Drawing contests for children are organized to allow them to use their imagination, and to express themselves through art. We observed that the conservation of their heritage is taking on an increased importance for the population who will never accept the military occupation. They have a non-violent manner of resisting; to remain, not to leave Palestine in spite of a life made of humiliations and quasi-daily dangers. To our great surprise, we did not encounter any hatred, only acknowledgement of the life that they lead, without even complaining; as if they had the habit of living like this.”

“We visited several villages around Hebron. Our bus, having Palestinian plates, and as it is forbidden for the Palestinians to take the Israeli roads, we had to make a big detour on dirt tracks, often blocked by boulders, to reach the small village of Twaneh. The settlers from the two colonies situated on the neighbouring hilltops constantly harass this small, isolated village that oozes misery with barely 300 inhabitants. They attack the children and prevent them from going to school, poison the only well in the village with dead animals and make regular violent raids to frighten the villagers. We met four young women volunteers of American and Italian peace associations who live in the village in order to protect the inhabitants, adopting the same living conditions as the villagers. They have also been victims of settler aggression. Other association members replace these volunteers every two to three months. Here again, we commend the courage and the commitment of these young people.”
------------------------------------
For facts...click on link:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11& ar=804

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By cyrena, October 9, 2007 at 9:52 am #
(4164 comments total)

#105624 by Howard
• Unbelievable this lobby, is right!  I understand they are going to repeal the income tax. Create free health care for all; and most importantly give all legal citizens a bonus of $1450. this coming February.

Howard,
I had to laugh out loud at this. (normally, your stuff is so obviously lunatic, and not the ha ha funny type either.) But, this one is SO outrageous as to actually bring a laugh to what are truly dismissal times.

So yes!! This lobby IS unbelievable, there’s no doubt about that. But unbelievable in the way one keeps hoping it’s just the most horrible nightmare that they will eventually awaken from. Except of course, we don’t, and it just gets worse.
On the serious side though, where did you come up with the income tax repeal, and the ‘gift’ of $1,450.00 for each ‘legal’ citizen, (uh…you DID mean AMERICAN citizens, right?) Did you just sort of pull that out of your pipe? Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that is? I’ll admit that the Israel lobby is certainly powerful enough to do that. They’ve proven they run the country with our tax dollars. But, to suggest that the Israel lobby would EVER part with a dime for ANY other citizen (of our United States) is totally ludicrous. And to repeal the income tax? PUHLEESE. How the hell would they be able to send all of our money to Israel? THAT”S the point! That’s where all of our tax dollars go! So, if your Klan repeals the income tax, they won’t have a way to continue ripping off the American public, which is where those tax dollars come from! American Jews (at least not those with the big bucks) certainly don’t pay US income tax!! That’s what the Israel Lobby is for!

I mean, the rest of us would do anything to have a few of our tax dollars spent on our educational system, our health care system, our infrastructure, minor details like that, which concern ALL Americans, and not just the Jewish ones. But gee, that’s just not the way it is. They just take it right out of our earnings, and send it to Israel.
So, if they stop collecting it from us, (the ones who can still work) then how is Israel gonna be able to continue pimping us? Will we just have to borrow another few trillion from China, so we can keep supporting Israel? So, I’m just curious. Where will Israel’s welfare payments come from, if the Lobby doesn’t keep collecting our tax dollars?

#105645 by Tony Wicher

• Would you agree?
Will the coming Clinton Administration do this?

Tony, this is a great piece, and a great question. I don’t have the answer, but I’d have to guess…NO! Now, if we look back on the first Clinton, he DID try to work something out. (with maybe getting Israel to finally recognize International Law, and stop violating it). But at the end of the day, it never happened, and they continue to perpetrate massive Human Right’s violations against an ever increasing number of people.

So, it’s difficult to anticipate that a new Clinton Administration would do anything at all, especially if she’s supported by the same lobby.

#105636 by ITW
• He’s also implicitly threatening the life and safety of EVERY Jewish American--calling for their expulsion from the US and the Constitution.
ITW, Just cool your jets. You’re going into your hysteria again, and it’s just gonna cause you another meltdown. How much of a ‘voice’ does this poster have? I mean REALLY! He “calls for”, and bingo, all Jews will be expulsed from the US and the Constitution? Gimme a break. Where would all of the Jewish Americans GO?!

Not to ISRAEL! I mean, Israel doesn’t have a Constitution, and life would be a whole lot more difficult there, than for Jews in America. (especially if Howard has his way, and there’s no more income tax from the only ones in America who pay it!! Heaven forbid you all should be BANISHED to
Israel! Right?

Not to worry. Won’t happen.

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By Howard, October 9, 2007 at 9:52 am #
(466 comments total)

Pure baloney of the worst kind. Outright falsehood, indeed.

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By Greg Bacon, October 9, 2007 at 9:40 am #
(114 comments total)

“I think it’s monies well-spent.  That way they can see what a great country it is.”

In the old city of Hebron, 400 fanatical settlers- protected by Israeli Defence Force soldiers- hold 30000 Palestinians to ransom. They stone and kick the inhabitants, while the Israeli army forbids Palestinians to drive- in some areas, even to walk- on the streets. I saw for myself the concrete blocks, rubbish and human excrement thrown down onto passing Palestinians by the illegal settlers occupying the flats above Arab shops. The racist graffiti is shocking:
- ‘Arabs to the gas chambers!’ - ‘Watch out Fatima, we will rape all Arabs!’ - ‘Mohammed is a pig’. Below this is a drawing of a pig reading the Quran. - ‘If you Arabs had just used a f***ing condom, then none of this would have happened!’

(If anybody finds this unbelievable, give me your email address and I shall be all too happy to send you photographic evidence.)

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m37031&hd;=&size=1&l=e

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By mark, October 9, 2007 at 6:28 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

If the PNAC doctrine on the Mid-East is the same as Israel’s policy, than this is not a Israeli Lobby but an embedded Army.

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By Howard, October 9, 2007 at 5:59 am #
(466 comments total)

That’s the American way...lobbies are for just that. And actually that lobby is much better than most others !!

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By Robert, October 9, 2007 at 4:50 am #
(641 comments total)

Pro-Israel PAC Contributions to 2006 Congressional Candidates
2005-2006

State Office District Candidate Party Status

$$Contributions/ $$Career Total / Committees

Alabama S Sessions, Jeff R I 2,000 $196,825 AS, B
H 2 Everett, Terry R I 6,500 22,500 AS, I
H 7 Davis, Artur D I 2,000 80,067 B
Alaska S Stevens, Ted R I 4,000 $73,200 A(D)
Arizona S Kyl, Jon* R I 84,500 $163,025
S McCain, John R I 1,000 $162,500 AS, C
Arkansas H 3 Delay, Robert R C 5,000 10,000
California S Feinstein, Dianne* D I 31,500 $146,342 A(D), I
H 5 Matsui, Doris D I 3,000 6,050
H 5 Matsui, Robert D N 1,550 10,700
H 8 Pelosi, Nancy D I 0 $63,450 I
H 12 Lantos, Tom D I 2,$$$500 112,750 IR
H 24 Gallegly, Elton R I 1,500 $45,250 I, IR
H 25 McKeon, Howard R I 2,500 4,500 AS
H 27 Sherman, Brad D I 5,500 $48,830 IR
H 28 Berman, Howard D I 3,500 $67,050 IR(NE)
H 29 Schiff, Adam D I 6,500 $35,417 IR(NE)
H 30 Waxman, Henry D I 1,000 $36,832
H 36 Harman, Jane D I 6,500 $93,771 I
California H 39 De La Torre, Hector D N 1,000 1,000
H 44 Calvert, Ken R I 2,000 2,000 AS
H 47 Sanchez, Loretta D I 5,500 $45,700 AS
H 50 Busby, Francine P. D 0 1,000 1,000
H 51 Filner, Bob D I 3,000 $85,014
Colorado H 3 Salazar, John D I 6,600 14,600
Connecticut S Lieberman, Joseph* D I $49,500 $286,258 AS
H 2 Simmons, Robert R I 1,000 $19,500 AS
H 4 Shays, Christopher R I 2,000 12,850
Delaware S Carper, Thomas* D I 14,000 30,500
S Biden, Joseph, Jr. D I 0 101,007 FR
Florida S Nelson, Bill* R I 53,$500 90,860 AS, B, FR
S Martinez, Mel R I 10,000 $43,500 FR
H 6 Stearns, Clifford R I 6,000 9,500
H 9 Bilirakis, Michael R I 10 20,116
H 17 Meek, Kendrick D I 6,500 13,500 AS
H 18 Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana R I 9,500 93,990 IR
H 19 Wexler, Robert D I 1,000 12,500 IR
H 20 Wasserman Schultz, Debbie D I 2,500 6,500
H 22 Shaw, E. Clay, Jr.  R I 21,005 72,505 W
Georgia H 2 Bishop, Sanford D. Jr. D I 500 500 A
H 5 Lewis, John D I 1,000 71,250 W
H 6 Price, Thomas R I 500 1,000
H 7 Linder, John R I 500 20,150 W
H 8 Marshall, Jim D I 5,000 7,000 AS
H 12 Barrow, John D I 8,100 16,600
Illinois S Durbin, Richard D I $1,500 329,171 A(D, FO)
H 2 Jackson, Jesse, Jr. D I 4,$500 10,500 A(FO)
H 5 Emanuel, Rahm D I 8,500 22,000 W
H 6 Roskam, Peter R O 4,000 4,000
H 8 Bean, Melissa D I 19,680 29,680
H 10 Kirk, Mark R I 66,064 119,382 A(FO)
H 11 Weller, Jerry R I 2,500 33,900 IR, W
H 14 Hastert, J. Dennis R I 16,200 97,050 House Speaker
H 15 Johnson, Timothy R I -1,000 7,000
Indiana S Lugar, Richard* R I 32,250 75,450
H 5 Burton, Dan R I 1,000 73,000 IR
H 6 Pence, Mike R I 11,000 22,250 IR(NE)
H 8 Ellsworth, Brad D C 6,000 6,000
Iowa H 3 Boswell, Leonard D I 3,100 23,675 I
Kansas H 3 Moore, Dennis D I 3,600 42,776 B
Kentucky S McConnell, Mitch R I 9,010 377,685 A(FO)
H 4 Davis, Geoffrey R I 1,000 9,500 AS
Louisiana S Vitter, David R I 2,000 33,000
H 1 Jindal, Bobby R I 2,000 8,500
H 3 Melancon, Charles D I 100 18,100
H 4 McCrery, James, III R I 2,000 39,500 W
H 6 Baker, Richard R I 1,000 36,350
H 7 Mount, Willie Landry D N -5,000 13,000
Maine S Snowe, Olympia J.* R I 2,000 $73,000 I
S Collins, Susan M. R I 1,000 $54,500 AS
H 2 Michaud, Michael D I 500 6,750
Maryland S Cardin, Benjamin L.#* D O 17,500 $43,950 W
S Steele, Michael* R O 5,000 5,000
H 5 Hoyer, Steny D I 28,500 $120,775 A
Massachusetts S Kennedy, Edward* D I 12,000 $79,120 AS
Michigan S Stabenow, Debbie* D I 55,296 $96,106 B
H 12 Levin, Sander D I 3,000 119,227 W
Minnesota S Kennedy, Mark*# R O 1,000 3,250
Mississippi S Lott, Trent* R I 13,000 $80,200 I
=====================================
FOR THE REST OF $$$$ CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR BOUGHT & CONTROLLED ELECTED OFFICIALS...CLICK ON LINK:

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2006/0605031.html

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By Howard, October 9, 2007 at 3:40 am #
(466 comments total)

I think it’s monies well-spent.  That way they can see what a great country it is.

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By Greg Bacon, October 9, 2007 at 3:01 am #
(114 comments total)

Curious about the 300+ trips OUR congress people have taken to Israel lately?  Wonder what is involved in say, the American Israel Foundation--a branch of AIPAC--spending over $16,000 for ONE trip to Israel for Rep. Albio (D) NJ to Israel?

Or how about the $15,566 they spent on Rep. Mike Ross (D) AZ?  Or the over $25,000 AIF spent on Rep. Steny Hoyer (D)MD? Guess the fact that Hoyer is the Democratic Majority Leader who is responsible for seeing what bills reach the floor of the House would have no bearing on AIF spending large sums of money to influence Hoyer, now would it?
Hoyer seems to like AIF and AIF likes Hoyer, since he seems to be a regular visitor to Israel on AIF’s money.

Or the $19,504 the American Israel Foundation(AIF) spent on Rep.Shelley Berkley (D)NV?  That busy one helluva lot of.... something.

Of course, the American Israel Foundation makes it sound so innocent, by stating that OUR congress people “… participate in the American Israel Foundation’s Democratic Congressional Mission to Israel.”

Right.  No funny stuff going on here, like a “quid pro quo” that makes OUR congress people act like a pack of well trained monkeys, more than willing to shove billions and billions of OUR tax dollars to Israel, while ignoring OUR needs.  Nope, none of that here.

How about the $18,031 AIF spent on Rep. John Tanner (D) TN?

Or the $20,347 AIF lavished on Rep. Jack Kingston (R)GA?  or the $21,495 AIF doled out to Rep. K Michael Conaway (R) TX?

All the details about these trips and more can be had at the following site:

http://www.legistorm.com/trip/sponsor/American_Israel_ Education_Foundation/4922.html

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By Howard, October 9, 2007 at 2:54 am #
(466 comments total)

Israel and those who attack it are not moral equals. Israel is, like the United States, a “mixed economy,” which retains a significant respect for individual rights. Its citizens, whatever their race or religion, enjoy many freedoms, including freedom of thought and speech, and the right to own property. The purpose of Israel’s military is only self-defense: to protect its citizens from aggressors. Consequently, Israel has a moral right to exist.

Those attacking Israel, by contrast, are terrorist organizations, dictatorships and theocracies, which deliberately violate the rights of their own subjects. Even if these organizations and regimes had never initiated force against Israel, they still would have no moral right to exist.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 9, 2007 at 2:24 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Stockman72 on 10/08 at 7:39 pm
(4 comments total)

Taken from a copy of the original from the written records of CHARLES PICKNEY of South Carolina, of the PROCEEDINGS during the drafting of the United States Constitution at the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION in 1789 re: THE STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN FRANKLIN at the CONVENTION CONCERNING JEWISH IMMIGRATION.

******************

And where are the “originals” of Charles Pinckney’s located?  Answer: Nowhere. 

Pinckney mentioned them in a letter in his later years BUT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN FOUND!

So...if they have never been found, how is it possible to have a transcript from them on anything?  Answer: It’s not.

Conclusion: Benjamin Franklin, a man who founded an abolitionist society, and modeled the division of federal powers on the Iroquois Nation’s charter, and was the LEAST likely to be racist of any man at the Convention did NOT make this virulent anti-semitic speech.

Therefore it must be (and is) A FORGERY. And it’s cited as fact only by nazi websites.

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By Tony Wicher, October 8, 2007 at 8:54 pm #
(781 comments total)

Re #105592 by Inherit The Wind on 10/08 at 3:47 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Viorst has one of the most balanced discussion I’ve seen here are Truthdig. As I said, most posters ignored Viorst’s measured discussion so they could spew their schpiel.”

“Legitimate criticism of Israel, the US, the UK, France, the PLA, Iran, etc IS appropriate.”

Thanks. 

“Painting anyone (with the exeception of Bush&Co;) as fundamentally evil is unproductive.  As Americans, we NEED to pass the word that Bush&Co;are irredeemably evil as they are trying to create a fascist dictatorship AND World War III”

Bush & Co is the primary target. If we can get a U.S. administration that really wants peace instead of one that is hellbent on war, it will adopt a different policy toward Israel. Instead of unconditional support, it will offer support that is critical and conditional on Israel’s recognition of the Palestinian human rights problem. It will support international law and human rights principles by voting against Israel in the United Nations instead of using the veto to prevent the Security Council from acting. Would you agree?
Will the coming Clinton Administration do this?

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By Inherit The Wind, October 8, 2007 at 8:15 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Stormtrooper69 is spamming Truthdig with Nazi propaganda and lies.  EVERYTHING he has posted is a pure total falsehood, totally undocumentable.  Much if it is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to historical fact and documentation. 

He’s also implicitly threatening the life and safety of EVERY Jewish American--calling for their expulsion from the US and the Constitution.

His “history” is straight out of “Mein Kampf” and should be recognized as that.  Notice that he DEFENDS the 3rd Reich, which was America’s MORTAL ENEMY, and that is usually considered treason.

Your statement about Benjamin Franklin’s hatred of Jews is a PROVEN CRUDE FORGERY:

“The late Charles A. Beard reported, “I cannot find a single original source that gives the slightest justification for believing that the Prophecy is anything more than a barefaced forgery. Not a word have I discovered in Franklin’s letters and papers expressing any such sentiments against the Jews as are ascribed to him by the Nazis — American and German. His well-known liberality in matters of religious opinion would, in fact, have precluded the kind of utterances put in his mouth by this palpable forgery . . . In his writings on immigration, Franklin made no mention of discrimination against Jews.”

Beard also noted that “the phraseology of the alleged Prophecy is not that of the 18th century; nor is the language that of Franklin. It contains certain words that belong to contemporary (Nazi) Germany rather than America of Franklin’s period. For example, the word ‘homeland’ was not employed by Jews in Franklin’s time. It was created in connection with the Palestine mandate.” Beard also showed “positive evidence” that Franklin held Jews in high regard, citing the instance when the Hebrew Society of Philadelphia sought to raise money for a synagogue in Philadelphia. Franklin signed the petition of appeal for contributions to “citizens of every religious denomination” and gave 5 pounds himself to the fund.”

Pinckney’s journal has NEVER been found, you lying Nazi traitor-to-America sack of shit.  The ONLY websites citing it are ALL nazi-racist sites.

Truthdig: You are allowing your site to become enveloped and sucked in to the White-supremacist, neo-nazi, nazi and KKK world, by allowing posters like “Stockman72”.  Barring people from brazenly posting falsehoods, forgeries and unsubstantiated slander is NOT a limit on freedom of speech.

In fact, it is the goal of these nazis to OVERWHELM your site with their posts and limit EVERYONE ELSE’S right of freedom of speech. You need to stop them--you’ve done it before.

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By Stockman72, October 8, 2007 at 7:39 pm #
(4 comments total)

Taken from a copy of the original from the written records of CHARLES PICKNEY of South Carolina, of the PROCEEDINGS during the drafting of the United States Constitution at the CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION in 1789 re: THE STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN FRANKLIN at the CONVENTION CONCERNING JEWISH IMMIGRATION.

“There is a great danger for the United States of America. That great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in which ever land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have created a State within a State, and when they are opposed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.

” For more than 1700 years they have lamented their sorrowful fate, namely that they were being driven out of the motherland; but gentleman, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine as their property, they would immediately find pressing reasons for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and cannot live on other vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.

” If they are not excluded from the United States by the Constitution., within less than a hundred years they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us, and change our form of government for which Americans have shed their blood and sacrificed life , property, and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded, within 200 years our children will be working in the fields to feed the Jews, while they remain in the Counting House rubbing their hands.

“I warn you gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jew forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in your grave.

“Their ideas are not those of Americans. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a dnager to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil its institutions.

“They should be excluded from the Constitution!”

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By Stockman72, October 8, 2007 at 7:35 pm #
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Those believing there is no international conspiracy going back more than one hundred years cannot explain the existence of the State of Israel without studying the conspiracies stemming from the Zionist World Congress in the 1800’s whose final fruit is Israel itself as well as the two world wars, communism, the secret Balfour Declaration under which Zionists promised Britain they would bring the United States into the First World War using their blackmail of President Wilson over his sexual liaisons at Princeton the 3-day communist takeover in Germany in 1919 under Rosa Luxembourg whose Jewish-Communist Conspiracy resulted in the abdication of the Kaiser who crossed into Denmark for safety, the collapse of the German front due to Jewish-inspired leftist armaments production strikes in Germany in the middle of the war, the later Christian genocide of 1920-1940 by the Zionists in Russia, the Jewish-inspired world blockade of Germany in 1933 (see Freedman), and the Jewish-Zionist German diplomatic assassination in Poland in 1937 which triggered Krystal Nacht and the persecution of Jews by the nearly starved Germans. Most of the adherents had little idea they were being manipulated by persons who, in the background, were orchestrating genocide against members of their own societies, and that type of hidden agenda and hidden genocide is a major point in the correct administration of worldwide conspiracies. These conspiracies are also being carried out in America and Europe today where immigration is supported in order to eliminate as many Christian Europeans as possible from the world stage. In reality, these outcomes were planned more than one hundred years ago and outlined in little read but always available Jewish, Masonic, and communist publications composed mostly by Zionist anti-Christian conspirators bent on genocidal acts and world domination by moneyed interests.

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By Stockman72, October 8, 2007 at 7:32 pm #
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The accusation of anti-Semitism in Russia became a mandatory death sentence to any Christian fighting against the Jewish oppression of Christianity in the Soviet Union, especially if these Christians even identified the names of the many thousands of Jews in control of their anti-Christian extermination policy. The Jewish-led anti-Christian genocide in Russia was basically a totally Jewish-run and definitely anti-Christian Affair using communism and anti-reactionary programs as the ideological communist “cover” for wiping out Christianity. The Jews basically ran the Russian government and hid behind its skirts as they carried out their murders across the Russian Continent. It was never reported in the United States, because the media was co